Best Of

I’m delighted to have triggered a multi-hour PB thread derailment with my posting of the Paul Johnson article on birth rates.

Now we’ve lost the SeanTs the rest of us need to step up and do more thread derailing.

We've had a few conversations on the topic which have never really got properly going.

My take is its not down to one specific thing, its a multitude, but doesn't have much to do with religion or uni professors. Saying that, the TFR among my friends who went to uni is way lower than those who didn't.

There is no quick fix, some people just don't want kids

My recollection is that the survey evidence shows that women, on average, want one more child than they have.

So we don't have to worry about the people who don't want kids. We have to worry about the people who want kids, and then don't, or don't have as many as they want.

Many years back, an eminent specialist in maternity published an article saying that the medical profession was, in effect, lying to women. That by not making clear the effects of age to the wider public, they were led to believe that having children at… advanced ages was risk free and easy.

Most of us cannot even go for a jog as easily in our 30s and 40s as in our 20s, seems pretty common sense that many things come with more physical and other risks.

I was just musing to myself the other day, is there anything, anything at all, physical or otherwise, that I'm getting better at? The answer is no (unless you count musing to myself, which I don't think you can).

You could take up something new, then you'll be better over time.
A new language for instance.
I've taken up bouldering as the kids got into it and in the future, when snowboarding is looking less sensible, I intend to be much better at skiing than I am currently

Ah yes, that's true, and I plan to. A craft, I think. I've been watching Bronowski's Ascent Of Man for the first time, what a beautifully written and presented work, and it made me feel downright unworthy. Need to get these hands working. Owe it to my species.

Me, I'd like to take up Ancient Greek. My school performance wasn't good enough to get to grips with the middle pluperfect or the stylistic issues of the [edit] men/de dichotomy.

I did 2 or 3 weeks ancient Greek at the end of 5th year at school. I was supposed to be studying it the following year but I didn't go back and went to University instead. I can remember thalssa meant sea and that's about it. I regret not getting a better education before I focused on law.

If you know 'thalassa' you know something worth knowing. One of the most famous of all Greek quotations is 'θάλασσα θάλασσα' from Xenophon's Anabasis, which is an extraordinary, and first hand, account of the journey out, battle and return of a bunch of Greek soldiers to help out in an internal Persian conflict.

They shout 'the sea the sea' on sighting the Black Sea, after an extraordinary arduous return from the desert. It's a great story from a totally forgotten bit of Greek/Persian history of about 400 BC. There's a decent Penguin Classics edition.

Xenophon knew Socrates, which makes you think.

It also gives Iris Murdoch a book title.

Xenophon's Anabasis was one of my set books for O level Greek. The other was Euripides Medea.

I didn't know Murdoch's novel took its title from this. Every day, even the day after solstice, is a school day I guess.

I’m delighted to have triggered a multi-hour PB thread derailment with my posting of the Paul Johnson article on birth rates.

Now we’ve lost the SeanTs the rest of us need to step up and do more thread derailing.

We've had a few conversations on the topic which have never really got properly going.

My take is its not down to one specific thing, its a multitude, but doesn't have much to do with religion or uni professors. Saying that, the TFR among my friends who went to uni is way lower than those who didn't.

There is no quick fix, some people just don't want kids

My recollection is that the survey evidence shows that women, on average, want one more child than they have.

So we don't have to worry about the people who don't want kids. We have to worry about the people who want kids, and then don't, or don't have as many as they want.

Many years back, an eminent specialist in maternity published an article saying that the medical profession was, in effect, lying to women. That by not making clear the effects of age to the wider public, they were led to believe that having children at… advanced ages was risk free and easy.

He ended up on Newsnight (I think). The lady interviewing him was appalled by his statements - and seemed to think that he (the medico) should keep quiet about it. Because he was damaging hopes and dreams.

Apparently the term "geriatric pregnancy" is now outdated, and "advanced maternal age" is used instead.

I kinda feel like the previous term more accurately conveyed the reality of the situation. And it applies to men too, to an extent.

But the whole way in which careers and employment rights and recruitment, etc, are structured push women into delaying motherhood. We'd need to seriously rethink that if we wanted society to accommodate women having children in their twenties.

I am sceptical...

I did my Obstetrics 40 years ago and I cannot remember it ever being referred to as "geriatric pregnancy," just advanced maternal age, and it always has been clearly taught that fertility drops off fairly quickly from the mid thirties onwards. This is widely known amongst women too, hence the phrase "biological clock". None of this is news to anyone.

Ask any young woman what the problem is and better than evens they will say that they never meet a man who wants to commit to a long term relationship and kids. The problem of extended adolescence is mostly a male one.

I think you're underestimating how strong the propaganda directed at young women is. Every sense of the word 'settling' has negative connotations.

Sure:

But if that was the major cause of declining birth rates, then countries with more traditional values (like, say, Iran) would have much higher birth rates. And they don't.

Afghanistan has very traditional values and a birthrate of 4 per woman

Personally, I'd consider the treatment of women in Afghanistan to be barbaric rather than traditional. I guess alternative opinions are available.

Economist polling average

Ref 28%
Con 20%
Lab 18%
Grn 15%
LD 12%

https://www.economist.com/interactive/2025-british-politics

The Greens are everything the young (particularly girls) wanted Labour to be. It's what the radio 4 prog was about. Streeting knows what he's doing. You can't be a lefti leaning Party and be an idealogical vacuum at the same time. Starmer doesn't seem to get it

A party as left wing as the Greens cannot win a national election in a democracy. That is what any Labour leader will understand. Support for the Green Party falls away sharply, with voters aged over 30.

Holding the balance of power would be good though. That’s the goal.

I’d not write us off. People don’t really vote against us.

Wanna bet?

I v much suspect they will be voting against Greens in rural Herefordshire once word gets out as to exactly Polanski's agenda and policies are.

I’m delighted to have triggered a multi-hour PB thread derailment with my posting of the Paul Johnson article on birth rates.

Now we’ve lost the SeanTs the rest of us need to step up and do more thread derailing.

We've had a few conversations on the topic which have never really got properly going.

My take is its not down to one specific thing, its a multitude, but doesn't have much to do with religion or uni professors. Saying that, the TFR among my friends who went to uni is way lower than those who didn't.

There is no quick fix, some people just don't want kids

My recollection is that the survey evidence shows that women, on average, want one more child than they have.

So we don't have to worry about the people who don't want kids. We have to worry about the people who want kids, and then don't, or don't have as many as they want.

Many years back, an eminent specialist in maternity published an article saying that the medical profession was, in effect, lying to women. That by not making clear the effects of age to the wider public, they were led to believe that having children at… advanced ages was risk free and easy.

Most of us cannot even go for a jog as easily in our 30s and 40s as in our 20s, seems pretty common sense that many things come with more physical and other risks.

I was just musing to myself the other day, is there anything, anything at all, physical or otherwise, that I'm getting better at? The answer is no (unless you count musing to myself, which I don't think you can).

You could take up something new, then you'll be better over time.
A new language for instance.
I've taken up bouldering as the kids got into it and in the future, when snowboarding is looking less sensible, I intend to be much better at skiing than I am currently

Ah yes, that's true, and I plan to. A craft, I think. I've been watching Bronowski's Ascent Of Man for the first time, what a beautifully written and presented work, and it made me feel downright unworthy. Need to get these hands working. Owe it to my species.

Me, I'd like to take up Ancient Greek. My school performance wasn't good enough to get to grips with the middle pluperfect or the stylistic issues of the [edit] men/de dichotomy.

I did 2 or 3 weeks ancient Greek at the end of 5th year at school. I was supposed to be studying it the following year but I didn't go back and went to University instead. I can remember thalssa meant sea and that's about it. I regret not getting a better education before I focused on law.

If you know 'thalassa' you know something worth knowing. One of the most famous of all Greek quotations is 'θάλασσα θάλασσα' from Xenophon's Anabasis, which is an extraordinary, and first hand, account of the journey out, battle and return of a bunch of Greek soldiers to help out in an internal Persian conflict.

They shout 'the sea the sea' on sighting the Black Sea, after an extraordinary arduous return from the desert. It's a great story from a totally forgotten bit of Greek/Persian history of about 400 BC. There's a decent Penguin Classics edition.

Xenophon knew Socrates, which makes you think.

It also gives Iris Murdoch a book title.

Xenophon's Anabasis was one of my set books for O level Greek. The other was Euripides Medea.

What sort of complete and utter idiot yells "More" at the end of Handel's Messiah?

That should be an instant ban from attending any further performances. No better than a football hooligan.

Those that insist on clapping immediately rather than letting it settle for a few seconds at least are also on shaky ground.

Still, assuming you were listening to R3 as I was, the performance was not the worst. Every time I hear it I wonder how Handel managed to get so many bangers into one piece.

[That's me banned too]

I approve both sentiments (and have thought much the same about the absolute bangers myself).

I was lucky enough to be at a Proms performance of Gotterdammerung with Barenboim conducting.

As the world ended and the final notes echoed round the Albert Hall he held his baton up for a good number of seconds. Absolutely everyone was paying attention and nobody in the 5000+ audience made a single sound until he lowered it.

More concerts should end like that.

I don't know why it worked that time. It was a monumental performance, yes, but perhaps also the proportion of musicians in the audience was very high? No idea. But it made a big impression.

Not classical, but I saw Ruby Turner in front of over 2,000 people at the Dominion, Tottenham Court Road. She sang "I'd rather go blind." Gradually, the band dropped out and she was signing it acapella. It was stunning. You could sense that the audience wanted to explode with applause. But not a single person did. They waited. She sang, gradually dropping quieter. Still they kept silent. Eventually - she stopped. When they were sure that was the end - they erupted like I have never heard a crowd before.

The respect was astonishing. There were very few of us white folk in the audience, so I did wonder if it was more like a gospel church experience - but my experience of that is there always somebody shouting praises.

One of the most memorable concert moments of my life.

Why are HMRC spending £11m on office furniture?

https://x.com/lnallalingham/status/2003029277759979530

Er, HMRC have loads of offices and will sometimes need new furniture. You're not expecting people to work on the floor are you?

What a weird thing to complain about.

It’s not that some of them need new furniture, it’s that they’re spending £11m on one order for furniture. Surely they’re not buying a desk and chair for their whole staff all at the same time?

I wonder if there is some major merging of offices on new sites going on, after the merger.

Office furniture covers more than that. Stationery cupboards, filing cabinets, meeting room kit, coffee area, etc. etc. A better grade of security for the locks for HMRC. And delivery and assembly.

Half the time the right complain about the shite facilities* in the public sector, half the time they complain when the facilities are upgraded to basic commercial standard, ie all looking reasonably neat and professional and to modern H&S standards esp for screen work.

And the rest of the time (from their home computers) they demand civil servants all work in the office 5 days a week.

Look at the cost of office fit-outs in large private sector businesses. Facilities management procurement is largely the same process regardless of the buying organisation. I suspect the HMRC approach is rather more cheapskate than many of those.

£11 million doesn't seem expensive to me for 70,000 employees and £5 billion operating costs. I think people who haven't worked in large organisations don't have an understanding of how much money swills around.

It seems a lot until you break it down.

2 years so £5.5m a year
70000 employees so about £80 per worker per year.

What sort of complete and utter idiot yells "More" at the end of Handel's Messiah?

That should be an instant ban from attending any further performances. No better than a football hooligan.

Those that insist on clapping immediately rather than letting it settle for a few seconds at least are also on shaky ground.

Still, assuming you were listening to R3 as I was, the performance was not the worst. Every time I hear it I wonder how Handel managed to get so many bangers into one piece.

[That's me banned too]

I approve both sentiments (and have thought much the same about the absolute bangers myself).

I was lucky enough to be at a Proms performance of Gotterdammerung with Barenboim conducting.

As the world ended and the final notes echoed round the Albert Hall he held his baton up for a good number of seconds. Absolutely everyone was paying attention and nobody in the 5000+ audience made a single sound until he lowered it.

More concerts should end like that.

I don't know why it worked that time. It was a monumental performance, yes, but perhaps also the proportion of musicians in the audience was very high? No idea. But it made a big impression.