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A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

Right to vote to leave: 30%
Wrong to vote to leave: 57%
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.

The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs

I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.

Who said they are fundamentals;

Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

Events Dear Boy!

Peter.

Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.

Total BS

So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

Exactly as they said.

When is a Promise not a Promise; when you only print half of it.

They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union..

That we would do a deal that got us tariff free free trade with no barriers because they needed us more than we needed them...We didn't get that.

Signed a trade deal and took back control of laws,

The deal we signed wasn't the one with free access they promised and our own laws turned out to be cutting and pasting teh EU' laws into ours. Virtually nothing we have done we couldn't have introduced within the EU. I can't think of one.

Money?

When did they control our money. They had rules on debt and deficits but most leave voters supported fiscal responsibility. 7 year pre brexit deficit, average 5%, post Brexit 7-8% Debt pre Brexit 85% GDP post Brexit 95-100%. Lucky we control our own money. we had an opt out of teh Euro!

Borders...seriously we leak like a sieve and our agreements with our neighbours to stop refugees are worse. Oh and we let in 1m people. And we weren't in the Schengen anyway. We have a travel area with ireland that remained and now people say it's "The Back door into Britain!"

Courts;

Well we no longer have a final appeal to the ECJ, but as that only deals with EU matters it doesn't change much as we are no longer in the EU

We still follow rulings of the rules ECtHR because it covers teh ECHR which we are still a party to as it is part of the Council of Europe and we didn't leave that.

Able to sign free trade deals.

But have they been as good.
UK trade deal values since Brexit; 70 deals, total value: £20-30bn.
EU deals since Brexit: Only 5-6 but then they ddin't have do make new ones. Total value: £550bn

Peter.

A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

Right to vote to leave: 30%
Wrong to vote to leave: 57%
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.

The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs

I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.

Who said they are fundamentals;

Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

Events Dear Boy!

Peter.

Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.

Total BS

So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

Exactly as they said.

And it's been shite.
Exactly as Remain said.

We've grown faster than Germany.

So how much more shite would it have been had we Remained?

The implication in what you're saying is that Germany would get a boost to its economy if it too left the EU, which to use an old PB trope, is a view...

When you wrote "is a view" did autocorrect adjust from "is bollocks"?

Good morning everyone.

Ugh ... just back from the dentist.

I'm highly amused this morning by the great sucking sound as newspapers find they suddenly may not have a 3-4 month succession process to use to try and create chaos in the Government, in order to complain about it.

The misleading framing of possible reforms to Council Tax are interesting. The Standard: "Londoners face £1,000 property tax rise." (Fact check: most Londoners will benefit, especially those who have not seen their house prices spiral so much since 1991). Also Telegraph: "Whoever the next chancellor is, they are coming for your home."

Those type of papers (ie nearly all of them) will be framing Council Tax as a Wealth Tax. Is there any limit to the black hole in the heads of readers of most of our newspapers?

My immediate thought is that if he is in, Burnham needs to do things quickly. A revaluation of Council Tax may possible and implemented in a year or two. I'm not sure about a proprty value tax (unfortunately).

I think that is all completely untrue. Of course it all depends on what level PVT s set at. But yesterday the discussion was on a 1% levy.

Given the median council tax in London is currently £2200 and the median house price is £50000, a 1% PVT would see the median property tax burden more than double.

The suggestion made yesterday that people can simply move to a cheaper property is so ludicrous in the London context that it doesn’t even deserve a response

The other suggestion to make the PVT only 0.5% works better for London but would slash the amount being raised across the rest of the country.

A national one size fits all PVT simply doesn't work.

When they looked at property tax replacing Council Tax in Scotland the proposal that got closest to cross partly support was PVT with upper and lower thresholds.

You exempt properties below a certain value and then charge a percentage above that, but also have an upper limit.

You also probably need a minimum service charge, for those eligible to pay, so that you don't have a large number of properties just above the threshold being sent bills for less than the cost of billing them.

Revaluation on sale and when building works like renovations or extentions are completed.

People can challenge the valuation but it is validated on sale, so that if it turns out the property the owner argued was worth less isn't the Council can get back the lost revenue. You cold teh otehr way round also claim a rebate.

The biggest stumbling block is what happens when house prices fall and you need to up the rate.espeically if lots of peopel suddenly want rebates.

There isteh Asset Rich/Cash Poor like some pensioners who could get discounts,if these are decided by Councils and self funded, the more residents you want to exempt, the more others need to pay. Tough for those Councils with high levels of dpprivation.

You also don't escape the problem where Councils with low value housing stock have a high tax and low threshold at teh bottom and high at the top, and those with high value the opposites.

You need external Government support in the form of a grant or the people in poorer areas end up paying more for a small house than those in a rich area for a larger one.
I
t's why rich Tories quite like the idea of raising all their own money and poorer traditional Labour ones don't.

Peter.

Entire German rail network down due to techical fault:

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Zugverkehr-bundesweit-ausgesetzt-id31004134.html

"The trains are at the stations or on an open track, passengers are stuck: The traffic of the Deutsche Bahn is suspended nationwide due to a radio disturbance. This was confirmed by a spokesman for Deutsche Bahn in the evening. For the time being, all trains will be stopped at stations or at a suitable location. Long-distance and regional trains as well as the S-Bahn are affected."

Russia?

Heat?

Not if the Radio system is down - that's something else.

Die Zeit had one train reporting that the tower network is down, but that is very unconfirmed amongst a lot of don't knows and could just be loose language (although I suspect that is trickier to achieve in German!).

A decade on, 57% of Britons believe Britain was wrong to vote to leave the EU

Right to vote to leave: 30%
Wrong to vote to leave: 57%
https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

It's polling nostalgia for an imagined yesterday, and contemporary disappointment.

The 55% for rejoin the EU collapses to just 35% though if it required joining the euro and Schengen and losing our previous opt outs

I know. And, even before getting to that, people don't want to give up sovereignty to the ECJ, or join the single market or customs union, or restore full free movement.

It's not testing the real fundamentals, and they are not good for Rejoin.

Who said they are fundamentals;

Most of the ECJ replicates laws we have anyway,.

I doubt the claim people don't want the single market. Free movemnet of goods has never been an issue.

Free movement is a problem but I suspect given Brexit lead to a surge from non EU Countries I think it's lost some of it's resonance.

Hardly nice to say it but it sort of looks like people prefer Poles to Pakistani's.

As to the Euro, well if we end up with another financial crisis I wouldn't be surprised if much like Iceland we consider seriously something we thought beyond the pale.

Look at how Trump has changed Icelanders and to an extent Norwegian attitudes to the EU.

One thing that has become clear from Brexit is that many of the promises made by the Leave side proved largely false and it's not at all clear how this would impact if people believe them next time.

I can see an effective The Who based; "Don't Get Fooled Again!" campaign.

Events Dear Boy!

Peter.

Name one promise from the leave side that has proved false.

The Brexit agreement we got is almost identical to what Vote Leave promised. Unsurprisingly as it was negotiated by the same team with the same objectives.

Total BS

So you can't name even one promise from Vote Leave that proved false? 🤔

They promised we would leave the Single Market and Customs Union, sign a trade deal, take back control of laws, money, borders, courts and be able to sign free trade deals.

We left the Single Market and Customs union, signed a trade deal and took back control of laws, money, borders, courts and are able to sign free trade deals.

Exactly as they said.