Best Of

I asked my question earlier in good faith. But there is a pissiness in the responses which does no credit to this forum really.

I have asked others elsewhere and have not received any sort of response bar, from one, a statement that Jews should go back to where they came from, which was darkly ironic really as well as ignorant. A 2-state solution would be the obvious and best answer but since Palestinians have turned this down 3 times and the demand now is for a Palestinian state instead of Israel with no Jews allowed to live in it, ethnic cleansing of and/or death for Jews would appear to be the preferred options of those demanding no Israel. This is not an option I support. But I fear that we are in a world where policy is increasingly being made by or for the benefit of those who think that the only thing wrong with the Holocaust was that it did not go far enough

I will bid you goodbye. Much like those choosing not to read newspapers which enrage them I choose not to spend time on a forum which feels increasingly hostile to those who do not accept its received opinions. Substituting books for social media is a good trade.

I am sure I will not be alone in feeling sorry to see you go. I have always found your contributions to be well written and thought-provoking.

Look after yourself.

I met up with my friends: all “centrist dads”, whether in Law, Consulting, Advertising or IT.

They are now all ferociously anti-Israel, if not actively anti-Zionist.

We seem to have been on the same journey

And yet the deliberate planned horror of the brutal rapes of women on October 7 and the female hostages kept thereafter has not led to any journey by you - or apparently @Gardenwalker's friends - reflecting on why male violence against women is wrong and why those groups, states, cultures etc which promote it should be equally viewed with horror and distaste. Which is doubtless why we read you this morning proudly saying that you feel like punching an opportunistic female politician but never an opportunistic male politician, of which there are many.

It is not necessary to balance every criticism of Israel with a criticism of Islam, or Hamas or whatever.

When a man talks about inflicting violence against a woman but then claims to have been on a journey because of his distaste about why Israel has done then it is worth noting how selective his outrage is and how he has never, as far as I can see, condemned male violence against women.

I am not often here anymore but it strikes me that it the preponderance of criticism here has been against Israel rather than Iran or Hamas and there has been very little talk or reflection on or criticism of the those attacking Jews in this country which, unlike the Middle East, is something we can actually do something about.

I asked my question earlier in good faith. But there is a pissiness in the responses which does no credit to this forum really.

I have asked others elsewhere and have not received any sort of response bar, from one, a statement that Jews should go back to where they came from, which was darkly ironic really as well as ignorant. A 2-state solution would be the obvious and best answer but since Palestinians have turned this down 3 times and the demand now is for a Palestinian state instead of Israel with no Jews allowed to live in it, ethnic cleansing of and/or death for Jews would appear to be the preferred options of those demanding no Israel. This is not an option I support. But I fear that we are in a world where policy is increasingly being made by or for the benefit of those who think that the only thing wrong with the Holocaust was that it did not go far enough

I will bid you goodbye. Much like those choosing not to read newspapers which enrage them I choose not to spend time on a forum which feels increasingly hostile to those who do not accept its received opinions. Substituting books for social media is a good trade.

At the moment a two state solution is supported by the Palestinian authority but not by Israel.

I'd welcome that although I doubt it would solve everything and there'd be plenty of arguing/drama about where the borders get drawn.

It would feel like progress at least.

I asked my question earlier in good faith. But there is a pissiness in the responses which does no credit to this forum really.

I have asked others elsewhere and have not received any sort of response bar, from one, a statement that Jews should go back to where they came from, which was darkly ironic really as well as ignorant. A 2-state solution would be the obvious and best answer but since Palestinians have turned this down 3 times and the demand now is for a Palestinian state instead of Israel with no Jews allowed to live in it, ethnic cleansing of and/or death for Jews would appear to be the preferred options of those demanding no Israel. This is not an option I support. But I fear that we are in a world where policy is increasingly being made by or for the benefit of those who think that the only thing wrong with the Holocaust was that it did not go far enough

I will bid you goodbye. Much like those choosing not to read newspapers which enrage them I choose not to spend time on a forum which feels increasingly hostile to those who do not accept its received opinions. Substituting books for social media is a good trade.

At the moment a two state solution is supported by the Palestinian authority but not by Israel.

I'd welcome that although I doubt it would solve everything and there'd be plenty of arguing/drama about where the borders get drawn.

It would feel like progress at least.

The last time there were serious negotiations, it was accepted by Israel and rejected by the Palestinian Authority.

Is anyone on Pb still of the view the UK should have joined the war?

We should have sent the RAF to attack Iranian missile sites as Kemi rightly said. If Trump commits ground troops we should join Israel and provide them with support from the air in my view too as that would be the only way to topple the regime.

However as Starmer is in power neither will happen as he is sticking to his line offensive actions in Iran are not authorised under international law

If we'd done that we'd be counting body bags in London, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff, Belfast, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Edinburgh and any other town or city

Sleepers in our midst revenge lone rangers martyrs

Forget all that. That is not the reason we should not be doing this. If Iran was a genuine threat to us and we needed to change the regime there then attacks in the UK are simply part of that scenario and one we have to deal with.

The real issue here is we should not be attacking Iran or supporting the US and Israel in attacking them. They are not and were not a threat to ourselves, Europe or the US. They did not attack us. They did not attack the US or Israel. They were attacked and we should not be supporting or condoning the aggressors.

I think you can make an argument that they were attacking Israel fairly regularly via their proxies

Well yes, but by the same rote you could say Russia has been attacking us for decades. Nobody has suggested bombing St Petersburg in response.

Russia has been attacking us for decades

And bombing St Pete’s always been on the list of options.

But wiser heads have prevailed to date

Because Russia has nukes.

Iran does not, yet, and its better to have this conflict now than after a mushroom cloud appears above Tel Aviv.

Israel has had nukes for a long while, yet there has been no sign of mushroom clouds over Tehran, or anywhere else.

Israel is not led by deranged, religious nihilists.

As much as people claim they are.

Is anyone on Pb still of the view the UK should have joined the war?

We should have sent the RAF to attack Iranian missile sites as Kemi rightly said. If Trump commits ground troops we should join Israel and provide them with support from the air in my view too as that would be the only way to topple the regime.

However as Starmer is in power neither will happen as he is sticking to his line offensive actions in Iran are not authorised under international law

If we'd done that we'd be counting body bags in London, Birmingham, Glasgow, Cardiff, Belfast, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Edinburgh and any other town or city

Sleepers in our midst revenge lone rangers martyrs

Forget all that. That is not the reason we should not be doing this. If Iran was a genuine threat to us and we needed to change the regime there then attacks in the UK are simply part of that scenario and one we have to deal with.

The real issue here is we should not be attacking Iran or supporting the US and Israel in attacking them. They are not and were not a threat to ourselves, Europe or the US. They did not attack us. They did not attack the US or Israel. They were attacked and we should not be supporting or condoning the aggressors.

I think you can make an argument that they were attacking Israel fairly regularly via their proxies

Well yes, but by the same rote you could say Russia has been attacking us for decades. Nobody has suggested bombing St Petersburg in response.

Russia has been attacking us for decades

And bombing St Pete’s always been on the list of options.

But wiser heads have prevailed to date

Because Russia has nukes.

Iran does not, yet, and its better to have this conflict now than after a mushroom cloud appears above Tel Aviv.

Almost all the charges of outrageous behaviour by the Iranian government could equally be laid at the door of Saudi Arabia. Which is even less democratic.
Would it be right to bomb them to achieve regime change?

I am not a great fan of the Saudi regime but Iran executed 5 times the number Saudi did in 2023 for instance and Saudi is not actively funding terrorism now against Israel and the West as Iran is

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/policy/international/executions-around-the-world

If you have time, buy "World Order" by Henry Kissinger. Chapter 3 describes the ongoing conflict between the Sunni bloc (led by Saudi Arabia) and the Shiite bloc (led by Iran), both wishing to export their brand of Islam. It's ten years old now, and Trump has remade the world, but it's still useful.