Best Of

Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.

So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?

No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.

I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.

Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.

Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med

Fundamentally your premise is:

Israeli Jews should have more rights that Palestinians.

And it also gives Israel a pass for its behaviour over the years; don't you think the creeping invasion of the West Bank increased hostility to Israel and to Jews? And don't you think there is so culpability because the Israeli government chose to fund Hamas, because Netanyahu wanted an implacable opponent?

No it's not, and I object to your construal

I made no moral case at all (and indeed, if asked, I would morally side with the Palestinians, quite probably)

I am stating realpolitik. Israel is a nuclear state. It is prepared to go to extreme lengths to prevent itself, and the Jewish people, from being wiped out. It has decided - I believe - that following October 7 it will no longer tolerate Palestinians who often want to slaughter Jews, to live anywhere near Israel. It is thus making Gaza (and less briskly the West Bank) uninhabitable for Palestinians

The Palestinians do not have nukes, and they don't have any Arab country willing to seriously fight Israel on their behalf. Ergo, unless they want to spend another 70 years in total misery, the best solution is for them to move

Utterly disgusting.

Forced repatriation from their homeland.

Why is this happening

NETANYAHU

Maybe it's time to move the Jewish State to a more suitable location.

Ethiopia might suit.

The industry and work ethic of Jewish people could revitalise Africa.

Leaving Palestine to the Palestinians.

Should Constantinople be given back to the Greeks?

Should we have acquiesced to the German occupation of Paris?

Are irrelevant analogies ever helpful?

I don't think it's irrelevant. The reason that people think there is somthing fundamentally illegitimate about Israel is that it's on 'Arab' land, but you could make a similar argument about European Turkey.

There's a five hundred year difference, which is why it's irrelevant.

A better analogy might be the Windrush generation, which of course many on the right that you're fans of so want to send home.

But even then, there are loads of differences that make that analogy irrelevant. Analogy as a form of argument is like trying to dig a trench with a teaspoon - it might look like it has the right form, but it's wholly unequal to the task.

Wait.

Aren't you arguing against analogy as argument via... an analogy?

I'm going to assume it's deliberate irony

Evening all

Two thoughts this evening.

First, would the relegation of Tottenham Hotspur to the Championship be the most significant event to occur in Europe since the Ottomans stormed Constantinople in 1453?

Second, is it true 400,000 KitKat bars have been stolen? Police are going to need a break to solve this crime.

I presume the owner of the kitkat bars has been told to just jot down the crime number and that's the end of the investigation?

Perhaps Nestlé will announce that there is a bounty for the successful recovery of the KitKats?

I hope the police have got some real Smarties working on the case.

Only smarties have the answer

Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.

So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?

No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.

I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.

Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.

Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med

Fundamentally your premise is:

Israeli Jews should have more rights that Palestinians.

And it also gives Israel a pass for its behaviour over the years; don't you think the creeping invasion of the West Bank increased hostility to Israel and to Jews? And don't you think there is so culpability because the Israeli government chose to fund Hamas, because Netanyahu wanted an implacable opponent?

No it's not, and I object to your construal

I made no moral case at all (and indeed, if asked, I would morally side with the Palestinians, quite probably)

I am stating realpolitik. Israel is a nuclear state. It is prepared to go to extreme lengths to prevent itself, and the Jewish people, from being wiped out. It has decided - I believe - that following October 7 it will no longer tolerate Palestinians who often want to slaughter Jews, to live anywhere near Israel. It is thus making Gaza (and less briskly the West Bank) uninhabitable for Palestinians

The Palestinians do not have nukes, and they don't have any Arab country willing to seriously fight Israel on their behalf. Ergo, unless they want to spend another 70 years in total misery, the best solution is for them to move

Utterly disgusting.

Forced repatriation from their homeland.

Why is this happening

NETANYAHU

Maybe it's time to move the Jewish State to a more suitable location.

Ethiopia might suit.

The industry and work ethic of Jewish people could revitalise Africa.

Leaving Palestine to the Palestinians.

Should Constantinople be given back to the Greeks?

Should we have acquiesced to the German occupation of Paris?

Are irrelevant analogies ever helpful?

I don't think it's irrelevant. The reason that people think there is somthing fundamentally illegitimate about Israel is that it's on 'Arab' land, but you could make a similar argument about European Turkey.

There's a five hundred year difference, which is why it's irrelevant.

A better analogy might be the Windrush generation, which of course many on the right that you're fans of so want to send home.

But even then, there are loads of differences that make that analogy irrelevant. Analogy as a form of argument is like trying to dig a trench with a teaspoon - it might look like it has the right form, but it's wholly unequal to the task.

Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.

So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?

No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.

I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.

Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.

Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med

That isn't a fact. A change in the US, distancing themselves from Israel, using their leverage aggressively in favour of viable Palestinian statehood, could be transformative. And big changes are possible in the US. We know this.

Israel is a nuclear state with a ferocious intention to preserve itself as a Jewish homeland. Unless America - or any other country - is willing to go to the brink of nuclear war with them, or actually start a nuclear war, then in the end Israel will prevail

This is the lesson of the last seven decades

It's not like we don't accept morally intolerable shit elsewhere. China's occupation of Tibet is a disgrace, tantanount to a cultural genocide (cf the Uighurs). Do we do anything about it? No. Because it's China and it is immensely powerful and nothing can be done

Some truth there but I think you're overstating it. That's not a viable long term future for Israel and it's perfectly possible (probable even) that in time, and with a suitably strong steer from the US, a more far-sighted pragmatic less ideological less bellicose Israeli leadership would emerge that would realise this.

For that to work, ever, you would need - simultaneously - a less bellicose, less ideological, less Islamist Palestinian people to emerge, not a bunch of angry people led by terrorists who want to kill every Jew they see. There is almost zero prospect of this, so your idea is delusional

Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.

So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?

No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.

I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.

Yes.

Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.

Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.

Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med

Fundamentally your premise is:

Israeli Jews should have more rights that Palestinians.

And it also gives Israel a pass for its behaviour over the years; don't you think the creeping invasion of the West Bank increased hostility to Israel and to Jews? And don't you think there is so culpability because the Israeli government chose to fund Hamas, because Netanyahu wanted an implacable opponent?

No it's not, and I object to your construal

I made no moral case at all (and indeed, if asked, I would morally side with the Palestinians, quite probably)

I am stating realpolitik. Israel is a nuclear state. It is prepared to go to extreme lengths to prevent itself, and the Jewish people, from being wiped out. It has decided - I believe - that following October 7 it will no longer tolerate Palestinians who often want to slaughter Jews, to live anywhere near Israel. It is thus making Gaza (and less briskly the West Bank) uninhabitable for Palestinians

The Palestinians do not have nukes, and they don't have any Arab country willing to seriously fight Israel on their behalf. Ergo, unless they want to spend another 70 years in total misery, the best solution is for them to move

Utterly disgusting.

Forced repatriation from their homeland.

Why is this happening

NETANYAHU

Maybe it's time to move the Jewish State to a more suitable location.

Ethiopia might suit.

The industry and work ethic of Jewish people could revitalise Africa.

Leaving Palestine to the Palestinians.

Should Constantinople be given back to the Greeks?

Evening all

Two thoughts this evening.

First, would the relegation of Tottenham Hotspur to the Championship be the most significant event to occur in Europe since the Ottomans stormed Constantinople in 1453?

Second, is it true 400,000 KitKat bars have been stolen? Police are going to need a break to solve this crime.

I presume the owner of the kitkat bars has been told to just jot down the crime number and that's the end of the investigation?

Perhaps Nestlé will announce that there is a bounty for the successful recovery of the KitKats?

I hope the police have got some real Smarties working on the case.

Oh God what have I started????

Punfests are one of the regular Revels here.

So many brands of ket* to choose from. This could turn into a Marathon punfest.



*Ket is a term for sweets used in the north east. Nowt to do with ketamine.

Anyone else making terrible confectionary related puns should be exiled as far away as possible. Like Mars.

Evening all

Two thoughts this evening.

First, would the relegation of Tottenham Hotspur to the Championship be the most significant event to occur in Europe since the Ottomans stormed Constantinople in 1453?

Second, is it true 400,000 KitKat bars have been stolen? Police are going to need a break to solve this crime.

I presume the owner of the kitkat bars has been told to just jot down the crime number and that's the end of the investigation?

Perhaps Nestlé will announce that there is a bounty for the successful recovery of the KitKats?

I hope the police have got some real Smarties working on the case.

Oh God what have I started????

Punfests are one of the regular Revels here.

So many brands of ket* to choose from. This could turn into a Marathon punfest.



*Ket is a term for sweets used in the north east. Nowt to do with ketamine.

Anyone else making terrible confectionary related puns should be exiled as far away as possible. Like Mars.

This made me laugh.

[snickers]

Evening all

Two thoughts this evening.

First, would the relegation of Tottenham Hotspur to the Championship be the most significant event to occur in Europe since the Ottomans stormed Constantinople in 1453?

Second, is it true 400,000 KitKat bars have been stolen? Police are going to need a break to solve this crime.

I presume the owner of the kitkat bars has been told to just jot down the crime number and that's the end of the investigation?

Perhaps Nestlé will announce that there is a bounty for the successful recovery of the KitKats?

I hope the police have got some real Smarties working on the case.

Oh God what have I started????

Punfests are one of the regular Revels here.

So many brands of ket* to choose from. This could turn into a Marathon punfest.



*Ket is a term for sweets used in the north east. Nowt to do with ketamine.

Anyone else making terrible confectionary related puns should be exiled as far away as possible. Like Mars.

Not far enough. How about the Milky Way?