Best Of

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

To be honest there are some on here whose use of whataboutery is legend

I’ve not seen such. Just repetitive “what about x” with desperation when various subjects come up.

Quality WhatAboutery used to be a major product of the Northern Ireland service sector. It’s really fallen off though. Another British industry shuttered.

Her HIPS are not forgotten.

HIPS don’t lie.

Possibly one of the worst policies announced by a British government in the first 24 years of this century.

I wasn't old enough to really understand the whole HIPs thing, from my limited understanding they seem pretty sensible. One survey, all the info needed already assembled etc. It should have improved the house buying process, why the pretty universal hate for it?

Because a lot of it was bureaucratic nonsense layered on top of the useful stuff. Plus buyers didn’t trust survey work conducted by the seller (why would you). And they said that only licensed people could prepare the packs (rather than, for example, all chartered surveyors) and then didn’t train enough.

So it was the archetypical New Labour policy:

- at its core a good idea
- overwhelmed with unnecessary dross
- Expensive and slow
- Poorly executed
- Ultimately didn’t achieve the objective anyway

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

To be honest there are some on here whose use of whataboutery is legend

Thank you.

I am very pleased to pay you the compliment and wish you well, as our taxi awaits to take us to the station for our 2 day train trip to Edinburgh and sitting on the bench in Princess Street Gardens where we got engaged 63 years ago

Romance, love, humour and being together are our ingredients for a long and happy marriage

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

To be honest there are some on here whose use of whataboutery is legend

Thank you.

I am very pleased to pay you the compliment and wish you well, as our taxi awaits to take us to the station for our 2 day train trip to Edinburgh and sitting on the bench in Princess Street Gardens where we got engaged 63 years ago

Romance, love, humour and being together are our ingredients for a long and happy marriage

Have a great trip Good Lady Big_G and Big_G. I hope the weather is kind.

Her HIPS are not forgotten.

HIPS don’t lie.

Possibly one of the worst policies announced by a British government in the first 24 years of this century.

I wasn't old enough to really understand the whole HIPs thing, from my limited understanding they seem pretty sensible. One survey, all the info needed already assembled etc. It should have improved the house buying process, why the pretty universal hate for it?

At least one problem is that the seller was responsible for obtaining it. But buyers' solicitors advised that because they hadn't obtained it, it couldn't be relied upon (probably rightly) and therefore they would have to do their own checks.

It's basically the same situation when you buy a leasehold house on that nice new estate and are 'advised' you have to use the solicitor who also acts for the housebuilder (to save on costs you see). When you do, that solicitor has a massive conflict of interest and (in reality) acts in the best interest of the seller, not in your best interests and after you sign you find you've entered into a 20 year lease with a £1m ground rent.

They were useless as they couldn't be relied upon.

Can we set aside the mansplaining about which side hates women? You do. No YOU do. No YOU DO. etc

A Cooper / Miliband dream ticket sounds great on paper! I get it as a trading bet, though as a real world scenario it has its difficulties.

I am resigned to Starmer staying on because the Labour Party are incapable of removing a leader who is literally inert.

If men explaining things to other men is now condemned as “mansplaining” then our hosts may as well close the site.

Big G has set out why he found Cooper to be ineffective. That is fair! Saying x politician is crap because reason y is fair.

The various posts from people saying x politician is crap because they're "dowdy" / a woman / a Tory woman is unfair.

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

To be honest there are some on here whose use of whataboutery is legend

Thank you.

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

Lots of grumpy farts about this Monday morning.

We’re largely a bunch of middle aged to old white men on a form of message board that had its heyday 15-20 years ago. And it’s Monday morning. What do you expect?

Good morning

I agree that @Alanbrooke description of Cooper was unkind but then some of the comments on here about Kemi are at times even worse and it is simply unnecessary

I was involved with Cooper and her department over hips with many trips to London to discuss the pros and cons and frankly she just dld not listen

I do not think she or Miliband are labour's answer to the Starmer question but then who is ?

My wife and I are to set off shortly on our 2 day train excursion to Edinburgh so will not be posting much as we want to enjoy the journeys and ever changing scenery

Yes “whatabout” the unkind things that people say about Kemi. Someone should invent a neologism to describe the rhetorical tactic and logical fallacy used to deflect criticism by responding to an accusation with a counter-accusation, shifting focus away from the original issue. Perhaps it’s already been done?

And on another hand, it's entirely fair game to discuss the presentational shortcomings of leaders, or potential leaders, since that's quite a large part of their job.
It's not as though Starmer, or before him Sunak, are/were immune from such stuff.

It's the difference between criticising what someone does (Kemi has said and done many foolish things in foolish ways) and what someone is (Cooper is dowdy).

The first is fair game, the second much much less so.

On the big picture, some strands on the left, especially the older left, have historically been pretty sexist.