Best Of

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Andy_JS said:
Can we please continue to talk about why Paul Quinn hasn't received a longer sentence after allowing Andrew Malkinson to spend 17 years in prison?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbLCXIaZBo
Or should we talk about why Malkinson was not released for more than 12 years after DNA evidence exonerated him? Or why the CCRC turned him down twice. Or even how he came to be wrongly convicted in the first place.


I did some research into this and read the various reports. So if there's any interest, happy to share.

I’m still annoyed about an interview with Lammy the other morning about this where firstly he was asked about the fairness of Malkinson having to pay for his experts and legal advice out of his settlement and he waffled and eventually said he would have to look into the situation (how he doesn’t have it etched in his brain is beyond me) and then the Today interviewer failed to follow up with what is surely the crux of this by asking him whether he can say straight that anyone who is a victim of a miscarriage of justice should not be financially damaged in any way.

I remember Alex Chalk being asked, on the same subject when Justice Minister, absolutely unequivocally saying that Malkinson and similar should not be financially punished.

It’s surely as clear as daylight that if the state makes an error which costs you your freedom, reputation, sanity, life of freedom then any costs incurred whether board and lodging or legal and associated costs to prove the failure by the state should be borne by the state.

I cannot understand why Lammy could not just say, this is a disgrace and we are drafting legislation to ensure that nobody shall be charged anything relating to a false conviction. I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who would not think this is appropriate so why can a politician not just fix it.

If the government prosecutes you, you hire a lawyer and you are found innocent, who pays your lawyer?

It would of course be annoying, painful and damaging but no comparison with being locked up for a huge chunk of your life and then to add insult to injury you have to take the costs of your incarceration and proving the State’s error out of the deserved compensation.

"Middle-class white men banned from public sector internship
National Audit Office’s six-week paid programme only accepts female, black heritage or lower socio-economic applicants" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/06/middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-sector-internship/

Are white, middle-class heterosexual men the most put upon cohort in UK society?

That's not the point. This is officially sanctioned discrimination by sex and race, and that will create injustice.

If you play this game, you create social division.

I think most people would look at the situation and say that giving an occasional helping hand up to historically marginalised groups helps undo existing injustices. But some white middle class heterosexual men are snowflakes and easily triggered when their familiar advantages are reduced in the slightest.

It's not like that. You are allowed to ensure that disadvantaged groups are invited to interview (aka "positive action"), but you are not legally allowed to prevent advantaged groups from getting the job offer if they are the best candidate (aka "positive discrimination"). Iirc there are exceptions to the latter (is this one of them?) but as a general rule it's not legal.

"Middle-class white men banned from public sector internship
National Audit Office’s six-week paid programme only accepts female, black heritage or lower socio-economic applicants" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/06/middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-sector-internship/

Are white, middle-class heterosexual men the most put upon cohort in UK society?

That's not the point. This is officially sanctioned discrimination by sex and race, and that will create injustice.

If you play this game, you create social division.

I think most people would look at the situation and say that giving an occasional helping hand up to historically marginalised groups helps undo existing injustices. But some white middle class heterosexual men are snowflakes and easily triggered when their familiar advantages are reduced in the slightest.

I think most people would look at the situation and say that discriminating against anyone is wrong.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I think two wrongs don’t make a right. But you’re the one who favours ethnically cleansing Palestinians, so I kinda thought you were in the two wrongs DO make a right camp.

I am not in favour of it, I do think relocation might be the least worst option to end the cycle of violence.

I would love to see a better, sustainable, option but as long as Hamas exist and their like, and as long as they are supported by the likes of Iran, it does not seem limely.

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Andy_JS said:
Can we please continue to talk about why Paul Quinn hasn't received a longer sentence after allowing Andrew Malkinson to spend 17 years in prison?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbLCXIaZBo
Or should we talk about why Malkinson was not released for more than 12 years after DNA evidence exonerated him? Or why the CCRC turned him down twice. Or even how he came to be wrongly convicted in the first place.


I did some research into this and read the various reports. So if there's any interest, happy to share.

That troubles me most; is it true ?

Not quite.

It was 14 years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66513959

Although the key point was not exactly that he was fully exonerated, but rather the evidence of DNA from somebody other than him cast doubts on his guilt which should have been enough to overturn his conviction.

DecrepiterJohnL said:
Andy_JS said:
Can we please continue to talk about why Paul Quinn hasn't received a longer sentence after allowing Andrew Malkinson to spend 17 years in prison?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfbLCXIaZBo
Or should we talk about why Malkinson was not released for more than 12 years after DNA evidence exonerated him? Or why the CCRC turned him down twice. Or even how he came to be wrongly convicted in the first place.


I did some research into this and read the various reports. So if there's any interest, happy to share.

I’m still annoyed about an interview with Lammy the other morning about this where firstly he was asked about the fairness of Malkinson having to pay for his experts and legal advice out of his settlement and he waffled and eventually said he would have to look into the situation (how he doesn’t have it etched in his brain is beyond me) and then the Today interviewer failed to follow up with what is surely the crux of this by asking him whether he can say straight that anyone who is a victim of a miscarriage of justice should not be financially damaged in any way.

I remember Alex Chalk being asked, on the same subject when Justice Minister, absolutely unequivocally saying that Malkinson and similar should not be financially punished.

It’s surely as clear as daylight that if the state makes an error which costs you your freedom, reputation, sanity, life of freedom then any costs incurred whether board and lodging or legal and associated costs to prove the failure by the state should be borne by the state.

I cannot understand why Lammy could not just say, this is a disgrace and we are drafting legislation to ensure that nobody shall be charged anything relating to a false conviction. I can’t imagine there is anyone on here who would not think this is appropriate so why can a politician not just fix it.

If the government prosecutes you, you hire a lawyer and you are found innocent, who pays your lawyer?

You do. Unless you are poor enough to get legal aid. One MP who was prosecuted for alleged sexual offences and found not guilty said after that the case had wiped out his savings.

"Middle-class white men banned from public sector internship
National Audit Office’s six-week paid programme only accepts female, black heritage or lower socio-economic applicants" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/06/middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-sector-internship/

Excellent news. Even better if it makes Telegraph readers froth at the mouth.

Probably something to do with the fact that the NAO staff are overwhelmingly male, white and from upper class backgrounds.

And they're not even being paid for the privilege, internships are for people desperate enough to work for nothing just to get work experience.

You drive two votes to Reform every time a policy like this is enacted, which you then double-down on by enjoying their reaction.

You lack the intellectual curiosity and reflection to realise the division this is driving into our politics, and a rather nasty communitarian one as well that is toxic to a unifying democracy, still less change it, and this pattern will be repeated until you do.

Indeed it does and the ‘I’m rubbing your nose in it’ element because they’re full of loathing of these communities is rather distasteful too.

"Middle-class white men banned from public sector internship
National Audit Office’s six-week paid programme only accepts female, black heritage or lower socio-economic applicants" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/06/middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-sector-internship/

Excellent news. Even better if it makes Telegraph readers froth at the mouth.

Probably something to do with the fact that the NAO staff are overwhelmingly male, white and from upper class backgrounds.

And they're not even being paid for the privilege, internships are for people desperate enough to work for nothing just to get work experience.

You drive two votes to Reform every time a policy like this is enacted, which you then double-down on by enjoying their reaction.

You lack the intellectual curiosity and reflection to realise the division this is driving into our politics, and a rather nasty communitarian one as well that is toxic to a unifying democracy, still less change it, and this pattern will be repeated until you do.

"Middle-class white men banned from public sector internship
National Audit Office’s six-week paid programme only accepts female, black heritage or lower socio-economic applicants" (£)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/06/06/middle-class-white-men-banned-from-public-sector-internship/

Are white, middle-class heterosexual men the most put upon cohort in UK society?

That's not the point. This is officially sanctioned discrimination by sex and race, and that will create injustice.

If you play this game, you create social division.

I think most people would look at the situation and say that giving an occasional helping hand up to historically marginalised groups helps undo existing injustices. But some white middle class heterosexual men are snowflakes and easily triggered when their familiar advantages are reduced in the slightest.

I think most people would look at the situation and say that discriminating against anyone is wrong.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

I think two wrongs don’t make a right. But you’re the one who favours ethnically cleansing Palestinians, so I kinda thought you were in the two wrongs DO make a right camp.

I am not in favour of it, I do think relocation might be the least worst option to end the cycle of violence.

I would love to see a better, sustainable, option but as long as Hamas exist and their like, and as long as they are supported by the likes of Iran, it does not seem limely.

As long as Netanyahu and his uber Zionist clique lives then Hamas are not the genocidal nutters but actually freedom fighters.

Netanyahu is the best recruitment agency Hamas and Hezbollah have ever had.

Without him and his ilk, Hamas and Hezbollah would be starved of necessity and relevance.

Palestine is a State and it belongs in defined borders on the Gaza Strip and West Bank stolen by Israel.

The best solution is to empty Gaza of Palestinians, and move them all to the West Bank, moving all the Israeli settlers out of the West Bank and back in to Israel and Gaza to house them.

That means Israel is a whole state without a dangerous enclave of Palestinians who hate them, and Palestine is a whole state without illegal Israeli settlements. It is fair and just - nobody gets everything they want, but everyone gets what they need.

Leaving aside several issues with this plan, I note that there are over twice as many Gazans as Israeli settlers in the West Bank.

Which I think should be fine. Gazans would tend to live more densely than Israeli settlers. I'd be more concerned that the Israeli settlers would burn and raze it all to the ground rather than let Palestinians live there, which would be very probable, but it would still be worth it to solve the problem.

Any moral solution to Israel-Palestine issue needs to remember that both Palestinians and Israelis should have the same rights. Deportation of the Palestinians fails that test.

Personally I think it's immoral to let the situation continue in the way it is. Clearly the current map doesn't work. A five year old could look at it and see that.

The 'deported' Palestinians would be leaving a bombed out shithole to a Palestinian homeland free from Israeli control. I think they would jump at it, and rightly so.

As an aside, I think your solution is an excellent one, and I should have acknowledged that.

O/T with apologies for diverting a thread right away but the Guardian have now published their readers' list of 100 greatest novels and it looks a lot better to me than the authors' and critics' list from a few weeks ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/books/ng-interactive/2026/jun/06/readers-top-100-novels-of-all-time

Amazed to see Memoirs of Hadrian on there. And deservedly. I thought I was the only person that had read it.

Not at all. A stunningly good book and an incredibly moving one. I rate it even higher than I Claudius as the foremost example of the genre. Read it when I was in my late teens and never forgot it.

Oooohhhh... I love I, Claudius. I reread (for the third time) last year, and it was every bit as good as I remembered.

I must try Memoirs of Hadrian.

Livia was the absolute star, even more in the book than she was in the TV series. What a character.

She reminds me very much of my wife.