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What comes over at this PMQs is Starmer's utter obsession with Farage and Reform

Dinner Party politics.

He ought to be obsessed with tackling the issues that are leading to Reform's rise. Reduce immigration, grow the economy so that living standards rise for all.

He has reduced immigration.

Lol. Put that on a bus and see how it goes down.....

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025

Net immigration year ending March 2023 = 944,000
Net immigration year ending June 2025 = 204,000

That's a 78% drop. If you want reduced immigration, Starmer has absolutely delivered reduced immigration. And the figures are still trending downwards.

Why miss out 2024 which was 345,000

The reduction is the result of the conservative tightening rules and little to do with Starmer

The fact still remains it was the Conservatives who oversaw a massive spike in immigration, by far the biggest increase ever.

Also, there were several on here in 2023/24 who claimed a Labour government would introduce an open doors immigration policy. Many of the same group who told us the IMF would be running the country by now.

Labour have been disappointing but still a huge improvement on the previous government.

The risk premium on gilts is now higher than it was under Liz Truss. Labour have smashed the economy, into tiny little pieces and the only "winners" are benefit claimants and public sector workers.

I think Trump's dire performance as President is in danger of making us forget what a dismal candidate Harris was. She never seemed to say why she wanted to be President, had no original or inspiring ideas and, when given the chance to put her point across, actively fled from the media.

As I've said before, Democrats win when they have a charismatic bullshitter who inspires the young and the left without terrifying the centre and the middle-aged then lets them down in office - see Kennedy, Clinton, Obama. Trump may be so unpopular by 2028 that even Harris will win, or maybe she will be able to fake enough charisma, but the Democrats would be unwise to bank on that.

For all their faults Kennedy, Clinton, & Obama were three of the most outstanding political leaders of my lifetime. The only potential candidate coming anywhere near now is Buttigieg.

What do you think?

Sadly, I just can't see how Buttigieg gets through the primaries in the South.

Buttigieg needs to first explain why he repeatedly lied about Biden's fitness for office.

He can then explain what he achieved himself as transport secretary for four years.

You'll be going on about Hunter Biden next.
None of that is in the slightest bit relevant to Democratic primaries in three years time.

Assuming the US still has a democracy (not 100% guaranteed), the record of the current administration will be uppermost in voters minds, and whoever has the best shot at uniting the Democrats is likely to get the nomination.

I doubt that will be Harris, and on current form, it might just be Newsom. He's not exactly adored by the Democratic base, but he's getting traction for leading the opposition to Trump. Quite what he does after leaving the governor's office at the end of 2026 is an interesting question.

Thanks for confirming how vulnerable Buttigieg is on his dismal record of lying and incompetence.

And also thanks for reminding us of Hunter Biden, that great polymath whose PB defenders started with "Hunter Biden has done nothing wrong and is being politically persecuted" and ended at "Joe Biden will never give a presidential pardon to his son".

When you have seen how Trump has behaved do you not have any sympathy for Biden’s decision to protect his son?

It was wrong from a presidential perspective (I worried about the precedent but… well… ) but as a man it was completely understandable

Whoever the Democrats choose it must not be someone who can be characterised as a Wokester with a problematic beltway reputation to defend. Hillary and Kamala could have been chosen by Trump to be his opponents. Dreadful candidates, whatever other merits they may have possessed.

I think they need a white, male, straight, Governor from a swing-state. Sorry to have to use those terms, but no use employing wishful thinking when dealing with MAGA and the Trump crowd. They cannot afford to lose in 2028 for all our sakes.

Hillary got more votes than Trump (just not in the right states). 3 million more votes, in fact.

What comes over at this PMQs is Starmer's utter obsession with Farage and Reform

Dinner Party politics.

He ought to be obsessed with tackling the issues that are leading to Reform's rise. Reduce immigration, grow the economy so that living standards rise for all.

He has reduced immigration.

Lol. Put that on a bus and see how it goes down.....

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025

Net immigration year ending March 2023 = 944,000
Net immigration year ending June 2025 = 204,000

That's a 78% drop. If you want reduced immigration, Starmer has absolutely delivered reduced immigration. And the figures are still trending downwards.

Why miss out 2024 which was 345,000

The reduction is the result of the conservative tightening rules and little to do with Starmer

The fact still remains it was the Conservatives who oversaw a massive spike in immigration by far the biggest increase ever.

Also, there were several on here in 2023/24 who claimed a Labour government would introduce an open doors immigration policy. Many of the same group who told us the IMF would be running the country by now.

Labour have been disappointing but still a huge improvement on the previous government.

On that we disagree

Reeves has done more long term damage to business and especially youth employment than anything even Truss conjured up

I have no idea why Johnson ballooned immigration other than Ukraine, Hong Kong, and Afghanistan refugees but certainly Sunak took the measures that account for the substantial drop in the numbers

I doubt Labour would be at 10% in Wales if they were seen as the answer

The reason was published the other day - Treasury worries about a massive Labour shortage developing. So they let rip.

The care home farce has been shut down - I wonder how many other of the companies effectively writ in other own work visas, were selling them?

For those who don’t know, the care home direct visa scheme was shutdown, because nearly no-one under the scheme was being employed in care homes. And selling the visas was rife. To the point that the Indian government complained about its citizens being ripped off.

And this had an effect on stats. The fraud worked like this - invent some jobs that don’t actually exist. Sell the visas for 5 figures (£15k wasn’t uncommon). When the recruits arrive, they are told to go away - no job for them.

But the fake “job” on the paperwork hasn’t been filled. It’s still there in the government statistics. So there’s an apparent shortage of labour…

It’s the hole that never fills in.

£570mn a year for Erasmus?! I see the Chagos negotiators have already found a new job in government.

I have no problem re-joining Eramus but it seems strange that our granddaughter spent her penultimate Leeds degree course in 2024 in Turin University so what is the difference that will cost £570million pa ?

The £570m is the membership fee.

Taking money from the working class and giving it to the children of the middle classes.

For the first time in my life I am contemplating voting Labour.

Slowly but surely Starmer is unravelling Brexit.

Erasmus is a euro-federalist creation machine so money well spent.

I enjoyed it a lot. I got to spend a year in Marseilles instead of Durham. I learned shitloads about French literature and culture while taking massive amounts of PEDs and racing as semi-pro cyclist.

That the Tories have come out publicly against this small improvement in opportunity for our young people (cf. Cleverley on today’s WATO) does them no credit, and simply reminds us that so far they have learned very little from all of their past mistakes.

It’s not obvious that it’s good value for money

Accidental racism from Starmer.

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/2001262534545092623

Keir Starmer: "I have a Christmas message for Reform. If mysterious men from the east come bearing gifts...this time, report it to the police."

I see the intention... but it doesn't really work as a joke.

One of Starmer's biggest problems is that he seems entirely humourless. It is basically impossible to warm to him unless you're also a paid up member of the Fabian Human Rights Lawyer Lanyard Class

Ooh lanyards again! This is the edgy content we come here for.

I've worked in plenty of private sector offices where keycards were used. I never saw the need to wear it around my neck; nor did my colleagues. Isn't that what wallets are for holding?

Personally I had it embedded in the back of my wrist for maximum productivity enhancement

I think Trump's dire performance as President is in danger of making us forget what a dismal candidate Harris was. She never seemed to say why she wanted to be President, had no original or inspiring ideas and, when given the chance to put her point across, actively fled from the media.

As I've said before, Democrats win when they have a charismatic bullshitter who inspires the young and the left without terrifying the centre and the middle-aged then lets them down in office - see Kennedy, Clinton, Obama. Trump may be so unpopular by 2028 that even Harris will win, or maybe she will be able to fake enough charisma, but the Democrats would be unwise to bank on that.

For all their faults Kennedy, Clinton, & Obama were three of the most outstanding political leaders of my lifetime. The only potential candidate coming anywhere near now is Buttigieg.

What do you think?

Sadly, I just can't see how Buttigieg gets through the primaries in the South.

Buttigieg needs to first explain why he repeatedly lied about Biden's fitness for office.

He can then explain what he achieved himself as transport secretary for four years.

You'll be going on about Hunter Biden next.
None of that is in the slightest bit relevant to Democratic primaries in three years time.

Assuming the US still has a democracy (not 100% guaranteed), the record of the current administration will be uppermost in voters minds, and whoever has the best shot at uniting the Democrats is likely to get the nomination.

I doubt that will be Harris, and on current form, it might just be Newsom. He's not exactly adored by the Democratic base, but he's getting traction for leading the opposition to Trump. Quite what he does after leaving the governor's office at the end of 2026 is an interesting question.

Thanks for confirming how vulnerable Buttigieg is on his dismal record of lying and incompetence.

And also thanks for reminding us of Hunter Biden, that great polymath whose PB defenders started with "Hunter Biden has done nothing wrong and is being politically persecuted" and ended at "Joe Biden will never give a presidential pardon to his son".

When you have seen how Trump has behaved do you not have any sympathy for Biden’s decision to protect his son?

It was wrong from a presidential perspective (I worried about the precedent but… well… ) but as a man it was completely understandable

Whoever the Democrats choose it must not be someone who can be characterised as a Wokester with a problematic beltway reputation to defend. Hillary and Kamala could have been chosen by Trump to be his opponents. Dreadful candidates, whatever other merits they may have possessed.

I think they need a white, male, straight, Governor from a swing-state. Sorry to have to use those terms, but no use employing wishful thinking when dealing with MAGA and the Trump crowd. They cannot afford to lose in 2028 for all our sakes.

I'm not sure I agree. Thinking in terms of clever politics and identity is probably a mistake, as it gratuitously narrows the field. Obama wasn't the majority of those things, and Biden didn't tick all your boxes.

Americans expect to be inspired by their politicians' rhetoric much more than we do. So the Democrats need someone with charisma who can deliver inspiring speeches, or, in Obama's case, mediocre speeches inspiringly (Biden couldn't, but he was running against Trump during a pandemic). If that person can get the base to turn out and not terrify the moderates, their race, gender, etc don't matter.

I'm perhaps more with Burgessian on this one.

As I see it, a big chunk of the Republican Right take their values essentially from the Jim Crow and KKK traditions, currently minus actual lynchings *, and with different targets for their xenophobia - for example Irish, Italian and Jewish (to an extent) people are now allowed to be "us" not "them". And Trump was able to exploit that.

For good or ill, that's part of the environment in which the Democrats will have to operate.

( Though Trump's own demonising attacks on civil officials, and his indifference to actual attacks on political figures, are revealing.)

I would characterise it as being a big part of the American voters (specifically in the south east). They are currently republicans but until the 1960s they were Dixiecrats

Harris lost the popular vote by a mere 1.5%. She got a higher share of the popular vote than Trump did in 2016, than Dubya did in 2000, or than Bill Clinton did in 1992.

If they’d actually had primaries and nominated a candidate who wasn’t terrible, they might even have beaten Trump.

Biden hanging on till the last moment didn't help

With the support of his cabinet and the Dem establishment.

Compare how the cabinet and MPs forced Boris out here to the lickspittle loyalty Buttigieg and the others showed to Biden.

Yes and forcing Boris out led to a landslide Labour victory and loss of the all the Conservative redwall seats, Biden I suspect would still have done better in the rustbelt than Harris did as he did in 2020

Boris was on a bizarre journey of self-destruction, he would never had lasted to 2024.

What you Conservatives need to ask yourselves is why you never made any attempt to control Boris's behaviour as PM.

Had Boris remained Conservative leader, Reform would not have got 14% at the last GE and Reform would not now be leading the polls.

Indeed Sunak might now be leading the polls as the new LOTO, Rishi made a stupid political move resigning to remove Boris

He got to put “former PM” on his CV

What comes over at this PMQs is Starmer's utter obsession with Farage and Reform

Dinner Party politics.

He ought to be obsessed with tackling the issues that are leading to Reform's rise. Reduce immigration, grow the economy so that living standards rise for all.

He has reduced immigration.

Lol. Put that on a bus and see how it goes down.....

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2025

Net immigration year ending March 2023 = 944,000
Net immigration year ending June 2025 = 204,000

That's a 78% drop. If you want reduced immigration, Starmer has absolutely delivered reduced immigration. And the figures are still trending downwards.

Why miss out 2024 which was 345,000

The reduction is the result of the conservative tightening rules and little to do with Starmer

The fact still remains it was the Conservatives who oversaw a massive spike in immigration by far the biggest increase ever.

Also, there were several on here in 2023/24 who claimed a Labour government would introduce an open doors immigration policy. Many of the same group who told us the IMF would be running the country by now.

Labour have been disappointing but still a huge improvement on the previous government.

On that we disagree

Reeves has done more long term damage to business and especially youth employment than anything even Truss conjured up

I have no idea why Johnson ballooned immigration other than Ukraine, Hong Kong, and Afghanistan refugees but certainly Sunak took the measures that account for the substantial drop in the numbers

I doubt Labour would be at 10% in Wales if they were seen as the answer