Thatcher/Blair achieved similar majorities 8 years after first being elected.Nah. After 13 years of rule by one party, you can say pretty much say anything and make big gains. And Cameron and Osborne did.Dave and George started on 198 seats, Boris Johnson started on 317 seats.Well...If I was a Tory who wanted to win the election, I might look more closely at the platform that won a majority of 80 than the Cameron/Osborne/Crosby one that got the slimmest majority in 2015, threw one away in 2010, and lost a Brexit referendum they should have won.
However, ministers who have watched Sunak’s short-tempered frustration that nothing he has done since last summer has seemed to work see a man who has had enough. A close aide told friends that Sunak had been hit hard by the Tories’ dire polling numbers and was “emotionally finding it hard to struggle with being unpopular”. Those monitoring things in the major polling companies say the Tory position has eroded further in the four days since Sunak’s election announcement....
...All this dissent led to false rumours on Friday night that veterans such as Sir Lynton Crosby, Andy Coulson, Cameron’s communications director, and George Osborne, were set to return to revive the campaign. Crosby is in Australia, while a friend of Osborne said the suggestion was not only untrue but impossible:
“George thinks Rishi is hopeless. He’s always thought he doesn’t have a big political brain and that Rishi has made two big calls in his career — backing Brexit and backing Boris — and that those are the two most catastrophic things to happen to this country in the last decade.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-sergeant-major-sunak-went-over-the-top-against-his-teams-advice-lzgqfkgxt
Getting a party from 198 seats to 331 seats is a damn sight more impressive than going from 317 seats to 365 seats.
Much harder to win a majority of 80 after nine years in power and from a position where, earlier in 2019, everyone hated the party and they had slipped to third. To do that you have to offer something the public actually want, and engage with them in a way Cameron could never dream of.
NB: Rather than witter on endlessly about their own invented model, can I suggest people actually read up on existing similar schemes.Not similar.
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/sweden-young-people-national-service-civic-duty-nato-war
Between them Boris, Truss and Sunak may just have killed the tree.You never really got the concept of low hanging fruit did you.Dave and George started on 198 seats, Boris Johnson started on 317 seats.Well...If I was a Tory who wanted to win the election, I might look more closely at the platform that won a majority of 80 than the Cameron/Osborne/Crosby one that got the slimmest majority in 2015, threw one away in 2010, and lost a Brexit referendum they should have won.
However, ministers who have watched Sunak’s short-tempered frustration that nothing he has done since last summer has seemed to work see a man who has had enough. A close aide told friends that Sunak had been hit hard by the Tories’ dire polling numbers and was “emotionally finding it hard to struggle with being unpopular”. Those monitoring things in the major polling companies say the Tory position has eroded further in the four days since Sunak’s election announcement....
...All this dissent led to false rumours on Friday night that veterans such as Sir Lynton Crosby, Andy Coulson, Cameron’s communications director, and George Osborne, were set to return to revive the campaign. Crosby is in Australia, while a friend of Osborne said the suggestion was not only untrue but impossible:
“George thinks Rishi is hopeless. He’s always thought he doesn’t have a big political brain and that Rishi has made two big calls in his career — backing Brexit and backing Boris — and that those are the two most catastrophic things to happen to this country in the last decade.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-sergeant-major-sunak-went-over-the-top-against-his-teams-advice-lzgqfkgxt
Getting a party from 198 seats to 331 seats is a damn sight more impressive than going from 317 seats to 365 seats.
Which is why all the way through I have emphasized that I think the Sunak Scheme is stupid. But that is not the scheme used in other countries with National and Alternative Service. That is what I am pointing out. A full time scheme with some element of payment but with Governmental direction of manpower into those areas of society that need them the most seems very sensible to me. Too many people here seem to like the concept of 'society' in theory but rail against the idea that this requires responsibilities as well as rights.1 year of civilian service is very different to 1 weekend a month for a year. It allows time for training and vetting, also it is paid.Do what they do in other European countries that run have successfully run such schemes for many years. Again. This is not in support of the half arsed proposals from Sunak but the assertion that somehow Alternative Service is a non starter and some of the shameful reasons being advanced to support that assertion are pretty offensive.Are all those being sent to care homes/domestic care support going to be vetted, DRB'd and supervised?Its an interesting point with the farmers. Their complaint has been a lack of available labour at almost any sustainable price. So the question is whether the scheme would work better if it was national service but paid by the farmers at the rates being paid to farm workers now?It's a massive red flag that the NFU have jumped in and called for it to be used as agricultural slave labour.Oh absolutely. As I said in my OP I don't agree at all with what is being proposed by Sunak. But the general tone here of Alternative Service being a wildly stupid idea is not, in my opinion, a valid one. It was only dropped in Norway in 2012 and even then it still had pretty widespread support. Done properly as a civilian alternative to military service it can work well and it is depressing that so many posters on here seem to think it is a non starter because British youth are lazy, feckless thieves.In those countries, alternative service is a long commitment. It’s not 25 days in total.No teenager in their right mind is going to sign up for the armed forces for a year, so that leaves 700k bored, bundles of energy and hormones all volunteering for the sectors of public service that are on their arse. The "glamorous" bits, like maybe the Fire Service, RNLI, NHS and Police all don't have enough staff to do the jobs they're supposed to do, let alone keep unpaid volunteers meaningfully busy. They'll just get in the way.I don't agree with this scheme, with its implementation or its timing. But it is worth pointing out that the system of Alternative Service has been successfully used in many European Countries for many years. Seven Countries still use it and it was only dropped in France and Norway in the last couple of decades. It can be a very successful system if handled properly. But of course with the current Tory administration, that is where the problem lies. No one trusts them to actually do it properly.
If it was full on National Service in the armed forces, then it's still a wank idea, but would make more sense than this half arsed civic duty bollocks.
The Tories have spent 14 years destroying the country and now want the kids to fix it for free.
How can anyone sane vote Tory? You want this lot back in again?
You can't blame young people for being deeply suspicious of anything the Conservatives propose. It's a shame really - I think it's over for any form of youth volunteering scheme, whatever party proposes it.
I am not suggesting this would necessarily work, just asking the question.
But also we have already had posters down thread saying it woudln't work because the youths would steal from old people in care homes. Not exactly a balanced opinion.
If not, would you want your granny have them help her get dressed in the morning?
And what are you going to do with all the 18 year olds who do have a criminal record?
If you are starting from a position that the youth of today are dishonest and not to be trusted looking after the elderly (as in your example) then it is no surprise they feel alienated.
I have a number of colleagues who have done their national service, mostly Greeks.
Some enjoyed it. A Consultant colleague of mine quite liked driving a Leopard 2 and firing machine guns, but others hated being frozen on the Albanian border in mountain huts with smelly colleagues. Another was on a coastguard vessel that deliberately swamped migrant boats.
So mixed opinions of its utility.
Well...Osborne, a man who I completely disagreed with on mostly every issue - but goodness me his political judgment is on point.
However, ministers who have watched Sunak’s short-tempered frustration that nothing he has done since last summer has seemed to work see a man who has had enough. A close aide told friends that Sunak had been hit hard by the Tories’ dire polling numbers and was “emotionally finding it hard to struggle with being unpopular”. Those monitoring things in the major polling companies say the Tory position has eroded further in the four days since Sunak’s election announcement....
...All this dissent led to false rumours on Friday night that veterans such as Sir Lynton Crosby, Andy Coulson, Cameron’s communications director, and George Osborne, were set to return to revive the campaign. Crosby is in Australia, while a friend of Osborne said the suggestion was not only untrue but impossible:
“George thinks Rishi is hopeless. He’s always thought he doesn’t have a big political brain and that Rishi has made two big calls in his career — backing Brexit and backing Boris — and that those are the two most catastrophic things to happen to this country in the last decade.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/why-sergeant-major-sunak-went-over-the-top-against-his-teams-advice-lzgqfkgxt
Every ship I served on had several smuggling rackets going. It was one of the (very) few perks of being a sailor. As long as it wasn't anything too egregious like Desert Eagles or opium and no officers were involved then a partially-sighted eye was turned to it. In the first half of my career the trade was very much dominated by fags and grot mags.Will the 18 year olds conscripted into the Army get duty free fags like my Mum and Dad did?That was the Navy, though, I thought? At least in the UK (the officers were very careful to dump heavily on any rating smuggling tobacco out into the outside world, lest that privilege be rescinded).
I think the Army only did that overseas? Or on troopships?
Sure, but saying this scheme over here that is different from the proposal is good doesn’t seem that relevant. (Compare also Bart on the Rwanda scheme talking about an entirely different scheme done in Australia.)Which is why all the way through I have emphasized that I think the Sunak Scheme is stupid. But that is not the scheme used in other countries with National and Alternative Service. That is what I am pointing out. A full time scheme with some element of payment but with Governmental direction of manpower into those areas of society that need them the most seems very sensible to me. Too many people here seem to like the concept of 'society' in theory but rail against the idea that this requires responsibilities as well as rights.1 year of civilian service is very different to 1 weekend a month for a year. It allows time for training and vetting, also it is paid.Do what they do in other European countries that run have successfully run such schemes for many years. Again. This is not in support of the half arsed proposals from Sunak but the assertion that somehow Alternative Service is a non starter and some of the shameful reasons being advanced to support that assertion are pretty offensive.Are all those being sent to care homes/domestic care support going to be vetted, DRB'd and supervised?Its an interesting point with the farmers. Their complaint has been a lack of available labour at almost any sustainable price. So the question is whether the scheme would work better if it was national service but paid by the farmers at the rates being paid to farm workers now?It's a massive red flag that the NFU have jumped in and called for it to be used as agricultural slave labour.Oh absolutely. As I said in my OP I don't agree at all with what is being proposed by Sunak. But the general tone here of Alternative Service being a wildly stupid idea is not, in my opinion, a valid one. It was only dropped in Norway in 2012 and even then it still had pretty widespread support. Done properly as a civilian alternative to military service it can work well and it is depressing that so many posters on here seem to think it is a non starter because British youth are lazy, feckless thieves.In those countries, alternative service is a long commitment. It’s not 25 days in total.No teenager in their right mind is going to sign up for the armed forces for a year, so that leaves 700k bored, bundles of energy and hormones all volunteering for the sectors of public service that are on their arse. The "glamorous" bits, like maybe the Fire Service, RNLI, NHS and Police all don't have enough staff to do the jobs they're supposed to do, let alone keep unpaid volunteers meaningfully busy. They'll just get in the way.I don't agree with this scheme, with its implementation or its timing. But it is worth pointing out that the system of Alternative Service has been successfully used in many European Countries for many years. Seven Countries still use it and it was only dropped in France and Norway in the last couple of decades. It can be a very successful system if handled properly. But of course with the current Tory administration, that is where the problem lies. No one trusts them to actually do it properly.
If it was full on National Service in the armed forces, then it's still a wank idea, but would make more sense than this half arsed civic duty bollocks.
The Tories have spent 14 years destroying the country and now want the kids to fix it for free.
How can anyone sane vote Tory? You want this lot back in again?
You can't blame young people for being deeply suspicious of anything the Conservatives propose. It's a shame really - I think it's over for any form of youth volunteering scheme, whatever party proposes it.
I am not suggesting this would necessarily work, just asking the question.
But also we have already had posters down thread saying it woudln't work because the youths would steal from old people in care homes. Not exactly a balanced opinion.
If not, would you want your granny have them help her get dressed in the morning?
And what are you going to do with all the 18 year olds who do have a criminal record?
If you are starting from a position that the youth of today are dishonest and not to be trusted looking after the elderly (as in your example) then it is no surprise they feel alienated.
I have a number of colleagues who have done their national service, mostly Greeks.
Some enjoyed it. A Consultant colleague of mine quite liked driving a Leopard 2 and firing machine guns, but others hated being frozen on the Albanian border in mountain huts with smelly colleagues. Another was on a coastguard vessel that deliberately swamped migrant boats.
So mixed opinions of its utility.