Best Of

Hot take: I've seen Botham and Flintoff AND Stokes in their pomp

Stokes is, by a distance, superior to them both. Not least because he's such a superb captain, unlike them

The best English cricketer and possibly English sportsman of my adult life

Hmm. Its tricky comparing eras (and even Flintoff is almost a generation ago). Botham was an extraordinary player - 14 centuries at 33.54 and over 5000 runs (this is test numbers). Bowling he took 383 wickets at 28.40 in 102 matches.

Jimmy took 704 in 188 at 26.45. That's essentially the same (so if Botham had played as many games he would have taken 700 wickets too). Clearly Botham enjoyed life* a lot and so played fewer tests and I think there were fewer in that ear anyway.

Flintoff scored 5 centuries at an average of 31.77 and scored 3845 runs. Bowling he took 226 at 32.78.

Stokes to date has 13 centuries at 35.15 and has scored 6891 runs. Bowling he has 224 wickets at 32.02 (from 114 test matches).



From the numbers alone I would suggest that Botham is the better bowler than Flintoff and Stokes, but Stokes is possibly a better bat. Right now he seems better as a bowler than a bat, but it may turn round.

But Stokes has given us Bazball, and is also a far superior captain - no small thing

I'd agree with you there.

Botham was probably the more naturally gifted player, but Stokes is the far superior all round sportsman. His captaincy has had a similarly consequential influence to that of Brearley, who would not have been in the team at all, otherwise.

And unlike Botham, he has improved with age.

I don't know about all round sportsman. Botham managed to also play professional football.

But its also a bit like comparing George Best to modern footballers. The strength and conditioning is total different universe. The average EPL player now would blow Best out the water, they are just much faster, stronger, fitter.

Also understanding of technique has changed. There was a piece they did 5 years ago with Flintoff and Buttler talking about power hitting and Buttler could nail the ball miles further. Sky did another piece with Liam Livingstone with KP with similar outcome, KP who is still in incredible physical shape looked like a total weakling.

That's the case with all sports except those involving horses.

I am not really a follower of the nags, but have they not improved over time? I would naively presume that training, recovery and nutrition would also improve for the carrot munchers.

No, nothing like as much. Secretariat's 1973 Kentucky Derby time still stands. Dancing Brave which won the 1986 Epsom Derby and the Arc would likely win those races today.

And no suspicion of the Flo-Jo naughtiness was going on?

Hot take: I've seen Botham and Flintoff AND Stokes in their pomp

Stokes is, by a distance, superior to them both. Not least because he's such a superb captain, unlike them

The best English cricketer and possibly English sportsman of my adult life

Hmm. Its tricky comparing eras (and even Flintoff is almost a generation ago). Botham was an extraordinary player - 14 centuries at 33.54 and over 5000 runs (this is test numbers). Bowling he took 383 wickets at 28.40 in 102 matches.

Jimmy took 704 in 188 at 26.45. That's essentially the same (so if Botham had played as many games he would have taken 700 wickets too). Clearly Botham enjoyed life* a lot and so played fewer tests and I think there were fewer in that ear anyway.

Flintoff scored 5 centuries at an average of 31.77 and scored 3845 runs. Bowling he took 226 at 32.78.

Stokes to date has 13 centuries at 35.15 and has scored 6891 runs. Bowling he has 224 wickets at 32.02 (from 114 test matches).



From the numbers alone I would suggest that Botham is the better bowler than Flintoff and Stokes, but Stokes is possibly a better bat. Right now he seems better as a bowler than a bat, but it may turn round.

But Stokes has given us Bazball, and is also a far superior captain - no small thing

I'd agree with you there.

Botham was probably the more naturally gifted player, but Stokes is the far superior all round sportsman. His captaincy has had a similarly consequential influence to that of Brearley, who would not have been in the team at all, otherwise.

And unlike Botham, he has improved with age.

I don't know about all round sportsman. Botham managed to also play professional football.

But its also a bit like comparing George Best to modern footballers. The strength and conditioning is total different universe. The average EPL player now would blow Best out the water, they are just much faster, stronger, fitter.

Also understanding of technique has changed. There was a piece they did 5 years ago with Flintoff and Buttler talking about power hitting and Buttler could nail the ball miles further. Sky did another piece with Liam Livingstone with KP with similar outcome, KP who is still in incredible physical shape looked like a total weakling.

That's the case with all sports except those involving horses.

I am not really a follower of the nags, but have they not improved over time? I would naively presume that training, recovery and nutrition would also improve for the carrot munchers.

Hot take: I've seen Botham and Flintoff AND Stokes in their pomp

Stokes is, by a distance, superior to them both. Not least because he's such a superb captain, unlike them

The best English cricketer and possibly English sportsman of my adult life

Hmm. Its tricky comparing eras (and even Flintoff is almost a generation ago). Botham was an extraordinary player - 14 centuries at 33.54 and over 5000 runs (this is test numbers). Bowling he took 383 wickets at 28.40 in 102 matches.

Jimmy took 704 in 188 at 26.45. That's essentially the same (so if Botham had played as many games he would have taken 700 wickets too). Clearly Botham enjoyed life* a lot and so played fewer tests and I think there were fewer in that ear anyway.

Flintoff scored 5 centuries at an average of 31.77 and scored 3845 runs. Bowling he took 226 at 32.78.

Stokes to date has 13 centuries at 35.15 and has scored 6891 runs. Bowling he has 224 wickets at 32.02 (from 114 test matches).



From the numbers alone I would suggest that Botham is the better bowler than Flintoff and Stokes, but Stokes is possibly a better bat. Right now he seems better as a bowler than a bat, but it may turn round.

But Stokes has given us Bazball, and is also a far superior captain - no small thing

I'd agree with you there.

Botham was probably the more naturally gifted player, but Stokes is the far superior all round sportsman. His captaincy has had a similarly consequential influence to that of Brearley, who would not have been in the team at all, otherwise.

And unlike Botham, he has improved with age.

I don't know about all round sportsman. Botham managed to also play professional football.

But its also a bit like comparing George Best to modern footballers. The strength and conditioning is total different universe. The average EPL player now would blow Best out the water, they are just much faster, stronger, fitter.

Also understanding of technique has changed. There was a piece they did 5 years ago with Flintoff and Buttler talking about power hitting and Buttler could nail the ball miles further. Sky did another piece with Liam Livingstone with KP with similar outcome, KP who is still in incredible physical shape looked like a total weakling.

...

Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

Find Out Now voting intention:
🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

Changes from 16th July
[Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

RefCon 50%??

I know we can't question BPC pollsters, but....

P.S. If this poll isn't posted on PB six times in the next six hours I will be so disappointed in the Reform rampers.

Where are we now? Between 3-4?

Shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, testing, acceptance

It would be "denial".

If this pollster wasn't BPC accredited I would doubt the accuracy of Ref 34 and Cons as low as 16. But they are so it is what it is.

Find Out Now posted a long piece on their site yesterday about why they are finding Reform higher than other pollsters and why they think they are right.

Was that one of Matt's impartial analysis pieces?

Do you have a link?

Matt Goodwin has nothing to do with Find Out Now and never has

https://findoutnow.co.uk/blog/how-pollsters-may-be-understating-the-reform-vote/

Interesting link, thank you.

"Police raid on 'Epping migrant hotel protester': Suspect is arrested at his home as a ring of steel is put up around two taxpayer-funded asylum seeker centres amid fears of riots"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14937239/Moment-police-arrest-Epping-migrant-hotel-protester.html

“I’d got home after a peaceable day chanting racist slogans and politely throwing bricks at the police. I was innocently typing a tweet advocating setting fire to immigrants when the police arrested me. The vicious, fascist thugs.”

It's another egregious example of two tier policing. Totally different approaches taken to people who commit a crime compared to those who haven't.

Comments like that will get you cancelled.

It’s “members of The Legally Challenged Community”

Q. Why did the lawyer cross the road?

A. I can't tell you for legal reasons.

Because the lawyer knew it would take 6.1 minutes.

Hot take: I've seen Botham and Flintoff AND Stokes in their pomp

Stokes is, by a distance, superior to them both. Not least because he's such a superb captain, unlike them

The best English cricketer and possibly English sportsman of my adult life

Hmm. Its tricky comparing eras (and even Flintoff is almost a generation ago). Botham was an extraordinary player - 14 centuries at 33.54 and over 5000 runs (this is test numbers). Bowling he took 383 wickets at 28.40 in 102 matches.

Jimmy took 704 in 188 at 26.45. That's essentially the same (so if Botham had played as many games he would have taken 700 wickets too). Clearly Botham enjoyed life* a lot and so played fewer tests and I think there were fewer in that ear anyway.

Flintoff scored 5 centuries at an average of 31.77 and scored 3845 runs. Bowling he took 226 at 32.78.

Stokes to date has 13 centuries at 35.15 and has scored 6891 runs. Bowling he has 224 wickets at 32.02 (from 114 test matches).



From the numbers alone I would suggest that Botham is the better bowler than Flintoff and Stokes, but Stokes is possibly a better bat. Right now he seems better as a bowler than a bat, but it may turn round.

But Stokes has given us Bazball, and is also a far superior captain - no small thing

I'd agree with you there.

Botham was probably the more naturally gifted player, but Stokes is the far superior all round sportsman. His captaincy has had a similarly consequential influence to that of Brearley, who would not have been in the team at all, otherwise.

And unlike Botham, he has improved with age.

I don't know about all round sportsman. Botham managed to also play professional football.

But its also a bit like comparing George Best to modern footballers. The strength and conditioning is total different universe. The average EPL player now would blow Best out the water, they are just much faster, stronger, fitter.

Also understanding of technique has changed. There was a piece they did 5 years ago with Flintoff and Buttler talking about power hitting and Buttler could nail the ball miles further. Sky did another piece with Liam Livingstone with KP with similar outcome, KP who is still in incredible physical shape looked like a total weakling.

That's the case with all sports except those involving horses.

I am not really a follower of the nags, but have they not improved over time? I would naively presume that training, recovery and nutrition would also improve for the carrot munchers.

No, nothing like as much. Secretariat's 1973 Kentucky Derby time still stands. Dancing Brave which won the 1986 Epsom Derby and the Arc would likely win those races today.

Can the Mods please ban @kinabulu ?

DANCING BRAVE did NOT win the Derby - probably should have.

Oh god, a million apols - I was there for it as well! Shahrastani.

We can drop that 'probably'. It so should have won the race that I've internalised that it did.

...

Find Out Now is a corker for Reform this week

Find Out Now voting intention:
🟦 Reform UK: 34% (+4)
🔴 Labour: 20% (-)
🔵 Conservatives: 16% (-1)
🟠 Lib Dems: 14% (+1)
🟢 Greens: 10% (-2)

Changes from 16th July
[Find Out Now, 23rd July, N=2,651]

RefCon 50%??

I know we can't question BPC pollsters, but....

P.S. If this poll isn't posted on PB six times in the next six hours I will be so disappointed in the Reform rampers.

Where are we now? Between 3-4?

Shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, testing, acceptance

It would be "denial".

If this pollster wasn't BPC accredited I would doubt the accuracy of Ref 34 and Cons as low as 16. But they are so it is what it is.

Find Out Now posted a long piece on their site yesterday about why they are finding Reform higher than other pollsters and why they think they are right.