Best Of

Ridiculous to see hundreds arrested for holding up a banner supporting Palestine Action . A total waste of police time and all caused by this moronic government labelling a group who might be guilty of criminal damage but in what world can they be labelled as a terrorist group .

A world in which they're terrorists as defined by law.

Change the law if you're unhappy with it.

A tall ask, that, for nico67.

And not your normal MO to say the letter of the law is the sole arbiter of what's right or wrong.

I never said anything about right or wrong, merely what the law is.

I'm entirely comfortable with people choosing to break the law if they are prepared to face the consequences for doing so. The consequences in this case are terrorism charges.

I'm also comfortable with campaigning to change and liberalise the law.

What I'm not comfortable with is authoritarian laws being passed on a nod and a wink that they won't be applied to people we like but will be applied to others instead. That's not on.

Under the law Blair passed these guys are absolutely 100% terrorists. Repeal Blair's law or campaign against it if it was wrong, don't act like the law doesnt exist or should be selectively applied.

Selective application of authoritarian laws is the worst of all worlds.

People are only being arrested for supporting Palestine Action because PA were specifically added to the list of proscribed groups. That was done rather quickly, arguably with insufficient legislative oversight. That's the sort of thing you often rail against.

When have I ever railed against a terrorist group who've engaged in terrorism under the law being added to the list of proscribed groups?

Under the law we have, PA absolutely are terrorists and should be on the list and the list doesn't require legislative oversight.

I'm all in favour of liberalising the law, but PA have been treated as the law says they should be and quite rightly too. Just the same as every other proscribed group.

If you want to repeal the proscribed list and laws like PREVENT then argue for that, but if today's law exists then PA should be on the list.

UK: X created a 'staggering amplification of hate' during the 2024 riots

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/uk-x-created-staggering-amplification-hate-during-2024-riots

I’d rather see some serious analysis from someone far less impartial than this lot.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5901/cmselect/cmsctech/441/report.html

That’s not really saying the same as the headline from Amnesty, which rants about X, and it is more generic too and tediously long.

The Online Safety Act is mentioned in the context it would not have stopped this.

Let’s expand the scope.

It's saying somewhat different things, yes, because it's a different report. You'd said you wanted something by someone other than Amnesty.

However, both identify the role of Twitter and an algorithm that pushes ragebait and outright lies.

Both are not Impartial

The Parliament report includes testimony from the unaccountable and self appointed CCDH whose attitude to Twitter has been hostile since the day Musk took over and who peer reviews any of their reports.

It’s political actors criticising other/opposing political actors.

Some people hold white working class people in incredibly low regard.
Almost as if they're a different species.

And you wonder, with many that do, how few generations of ancestors before them they had white working class people who worked hard to get subsequent generations “up” in the world to the point the current ones are in a financial/professional/social position to feel that they can look down on them.

On the contrary such people tend to exalt their working class roots. My right on friend (a professor of Gender Studies at a major university no less) self-identifies as working class because her grandparents were Welsh miners.

Looking down on Reform voters doesn't equate to looking down on the WWC, no matter how much people like Lee Andrrson tries to equate the two.

I have met far too many people who are seriously rude about the “white working class” who are second generation “money”, and usually not much to shout about. They are desperate to pull on the supposed behaviours and attitudes of upper middle and upper classes to an almost comedic effect and their theatrical dislike of hoi polloi is grim. I know a chap, have done since we were 5, whose grandfather was from a Birmingham slum, sharp as fuck and made millions in arms deals, starting with buying excess British army boots and selling them for double the cost to the Middle East. If you met this chap you would think he was a grotesque character of a rude duke but his manners are all book learned. He’s an uneducated buffoon who is rude to waiting staff and the like. He’s one example of so many people like him who want people to think they aren’t anything to do with the WWF.

I have had, since university, idiots ask me why I’m such good friends with x and y because they are, you know, a bit common/rough, uneducated. Honestly it would be funny if it wasn’t so sad that people whose parents and grandparents worked their way “up” suddenly feel they have to mock or hate the WWC to make themselves feel better.

There is a subset who do, as you say, embrace their “real” roots to give them cred but many more are utter shits who knock others in an attempt to elevate themselves.

Surprising to see that Tommy Robinson has a 24% popularity rating, with a further 14% being neutral.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/explore/public_figure/Tommy_Robinson

I'd add further adjectives to "surprising" - but yes it is.

I'd have guessed 15%.

it's 2025 and racism is in

Yep. But it's usually that 15%. The ones who 'strongly approve' of Donald Trump. That's a good cypher for how big the racist vote is here (since it's never self reported for obvious reasons).

So this 24% is a nasty surprise to me. Thought I had a handle on it. Haven't.

Given Reform are on 30% then virtually all of those 24% will be voting Reform unsurprisingly, which is why Farage cannot distance himself from Robinson too much even if he needs more than Robinson fans for Reform to win most seats

I note approval is 20% for Badenoch, 15% for Jenrick. Stride doesn't seem to be rated.

I note this ranking is derived from the yougov ratings quickfire round that is optional at the end of their surveys, so I don't think is population weighted like their regular polls

Stride has a net approval of -18% compared to -35% for Badenoch, -44% for Starmer, -31% for Farage and -37% for Corbyn and -6% for Davey in the latest weighted Yougov favourability ratings survey

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52586-political-favourability-ratings-july-2025

Very naughty! Stride has the lowest favourable rating of any of them, at 6%. The only reason his net approval isn't so bad is because 70% haven't heard of him.

Big potential volatility here. Almost three quarters of the population have the experience of getting to know Mel Stride ahead of them.

Some people hold white working class people in incredibly low regard.
Almost as if they're a different species.

And you wonder, with many that do, how few generations of ancestors before them they had white working class people who worked hard to get subsequent generations “up” in the world to the point the current ones are in a financial/professional/social position to feel that they can look down on them.

On the contrary such people tend to exalt their working class roots. My right on friend (a professor of Gender Studies at a major university no less) self-identifies as working class because her grandparents were Welsh miners.

Looking down on Reform voters doesn't equate to looking down on the WWC, no matter how much people like Lee Andrrson tries to equate the two.

Most WWC people don't support Reform. Most Reform supporters are not WWC.

I think I'm right in saying that?

Reform are on 36% with C2DEs now compared to under 20% for the Tories and Labour, if you exclude ethnic minority C2DEs they are likely even higher
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/voting-intention?crossBreak=c2de

Surprising to see that Tommy Robinson has a 24% popularity rating, with a further 14% being neutral.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/explore/public_figure/Tommy_Robinson

I'd add further adjectives to "surprising" - but yes it is.

I'd have guessed 15%.

it's 2025 and racism is in

Yep. But it's usually that 15%. The ones who 'strongly approve' of Donald Trump. That's a good cypher for how big the racist vote is here (since it's never self reported for obvious reasons).

So this 24% is a nasty surprise to me. Thought I had a handle on it. Haven't.

Given Reform are on 30% then virtually all of those 24% will be voting Reform unsurprisingly, which is why Farage cannot distance himself from Robinson too much even if he needs more than Robinson fans for Reform to win most seats

I note approval is 20% for Badenoch, 15% for Jenrick. Stride doesn't seem to be rated.

I note this ranking is derived from the yougov ratings quickfire round that is optional at the end of their surveys, so I don't think is population weighted like their regular polls

Stride has a net approval of -18% compared to -35% for Badenoch, -44% for Starmer, -31% for Farage and -37% for Corbyn and -6% for Davey in the latest weighted Yougov favourability ratings survey

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52586-political-favourability-ratings-july-2025

Very naughty! Stride has the lowest favourable rating of any of them, at 6%. The only reason his net approval isn't so bad is because 70% haven't heard of him.

Mel who?
Thats Mel whom to you.

.

Ridiculous to see hundreds arrested for holding up a banner supporting Palestine Action . A total waste of police time and all caused by this moronic government labelling a group who might be guilty of criminal damage but in what world can they be labelled as a terrorist group .

A world in which they're terrorists as defined by law.

Change the law if you're unhappy with it.

A tall ask, that, for nico67.

And not your normal MO to say the letter of the law is the sole arbiter of what's right or wrong.

I never said anything about right or wrong, merely what the law is.

I'm entirely comfortable with people choosing to break the law if they are prepared to face the consequences for doing so. The consequences in this case are terrorism charges.

I'm also comfortable with campaigning to change and liberalise the law.

What I'm not comfortable with is authoritarian laws being passed on a nod and a wink that they won't be applied to people we like but will be applied to others instead. That's not on.

Under the law Blair passed these guys are absolutely 100% terrorists. Repeal Blair's law or campaign against it if it was wrong, don't act like the law doesnt exist or should be selectively applied.

Selective application of authoritarian laws is the worst of all worlds.

Sure. But your reaction was driven by your passionate support for Israel and corresponding antipathy to anything pro Palestine.

It'd be a bit like me getting pissed off with all the PB hating on the OSA and blurting, "It's the law. If you don’t like it change it."

Might do that actually, next time it crops up. Yes, you've sold me.

Quite - BartholomewRoberts is trying to reconcile his usual strident defence of free speech with his hatred for anyone opposing Israel's ethnic cleansing of Gaza by hiding behind "it's the law bro".

I actually entirely agree with and follow his logic - Palestine Action are a terrorist group under the law as written, the Home Secretary was likely within her rights to proscribe them, and therefore support for them is a offence too.

But it's absurd. The people cutting down bus lane cameras in Edinburgh have caused serious and expensive criminal damage, motivated by their politics. They are therefore terrorists. The Home Secretary could proscribe them with no consultation with parliament. Anyone wearing a t-shirt with the name of that group, or defending their actions on facebook, could also be arrested under the Terrorism Act.

No, I think the Home Secretary has to lay a statutory instrument before Parliament to add a group to the list.

Yes, you're right. Fair enough.

(I'd gently suggest that, with a huge majority, people on the right should not encourage the Labour Party to get a taste for proscribing political campaign groups).

Serious and expensive criminal damage is not quite the same as serious and expensive criminal damage done to our defensive capabilities. The latter is belongs to the area of sabotage and treason. I am not convinced that it makes the group a terror group either though. But I do think those involved specifically in those acts should have several books thrown at them.

Some people hold white working class people in incredibly low regard.
Almost as if they're a different species.

And you wonder, with many that do, how few generations of ancestors before them they had white working class people who worked hard to get subsequent generations “up” in the world to the point the current ones are in a financial/professional/social position to feel that they can look down on them.

On the contrary such people tend to exalt their working class roots. My right on friend (a professor of Gender Studies at a major university no less) self-identifies as working class because her grandparents were Welsh miners.

Looking down on Reform voters doesn't equate to looking down on the WWC, no matter how much people like Lee Andrrson tries to equate the two.

Most WWC people don't support Reform. Most Reform supporters are not WWC.

I think I'm right in saying that?