Best Of

.

...the relatively civilized Matt Goodwin...

That must be one fuck of a relative...

Noted. Goodwin usually makes arguments in a broadly rational manner, using facts, accumulating data, drawing conclusions from grounds and suggesting conclusions which are more or less consistent with a society which has regard for the rule of law.

(I more or less never agree with him, his forms of fact selection (which are distortion but common in mainstream politics), or his conclusions. Like other polemicists from the PM down he leaves out facts which are unsuited to him and it isn't all that hard to see thriough him. But that's true of wet centrist liberals too, of which I suppose I am one.)

He is surrounded by people who don't do anything of the sort. People who make up facts, threaten others and act as if they have no regard for the rule of law.

For all his faults, Goodwin is useful for the moment as a measure of how a political debate is developing, and how argument can alter the Overton window.

However his use of quote marks around the word "British" referring to a man born here who has now been released as innocent and uninvolved which I quote further up is just horrible.

This is the Goodwin quote again ICYMI:

10 people suffering a mass stabbing on a train at the hands of two Black "British" men for no apparent reason.


https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1985011132654829815

Way past time that the BBC stop platforming the racist activist on Question Time as an "academic"
https://x.com/AdamBienkov/status/1983853807894458653

I don't think Matthew Goodwin is a racist.

I do think he's gone off the side of the map a bit.

I think that's what Twitter can do to people.. see Carol Voderman, J K Rowling, AC Grayling, Andrew Adonis etc.

He appears to think that someone who is Black can't be British. That seems definitionally racist.

That's a bit of a stretch. I suspect he jumped to a conclusion that the authorities knew more than they let on. Whilst they might have held a British passport they might have been a recent immigrant, like Axel Rudakubana, who don't really have much loyalty to the country and for whom the passport is a flag of convenience.

Now, he looks rather silly. But I don't think he's a racist.

I know one when I see one, like Tommy Robinson or the EDL mob.

Axel Rudakubana was born in the UK. He was not an immigrant.

Your interpretation of Goodwin's comments is possible, but seems generous. It was reported pretty early on that both men were born in the UK. Goodwin, on other occasions, has shown a very narrow definition of British that basically equates to White British or having been born in Britain.

And it was reported early on that the police had arrested two Black Britons of very similar age and sex, both for attempted murder, and it turned out later one of whom was entirely innocent.

See how this works?

I am unclear how that excuses Goodwin?

He doesn't need to be excused. It's a silly tweet in the heat of the moment where he assumed the authorities knew more but were playing it down, like they were recent migrants who held a technical British passport but had no real loyalty to the country. That's his shtick. Now, he looks silly because he's jumped to a conclusion. And he wasn't the only one.

If he exhibits or starts to exhibit a pattern of racist behaviour suggesting he is in fact one you can be assured I'll be one of the first to say it.

This isn't it.

If Twitter/X had its way the bloke released without charge would have been hung, drawn and quartered some time ago.

Even the relatively civilized Matt Goodwin refers on X to:

10 people suffering a mass stabbing on a train at the hands of two Black "British" men for no apparent reason.

https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1985011132654829815

.

...the relatively civilized Matt Goodwin...

That must be one fuck of a relative...

Noted. Goodwin usually makes arguments in a broadly rational manner, using facts, accumulating data, drawing conclusions from grounds and suggesting conclusions which are more or less consistent with a society which has regard for the rule of law.

(I more or less never agree with him, his forms of fact selection (which are distortion but common in mainstream politics), or his conclusions. Like other polemicists from the PM down he leaves out facts which are unsuited to him and it isn't all that hard to see thriough him. But that's true of wet centrist liberals too, of which I suppose I am one.)

He is surrounded by people who don't do anything of the sort. People who make up facts, threaten others and act as if they have no regard for the rule of law.

For all his faults, Goodwin is useful for the moment as a measure of how a political debate is developing, and how argument can alter the Overton window.

However his use of quote marks around the word "British" referring to a man born here who has now been released as innocent and uninvolved which I quote further up is just horrible.

This is the Goodwin quote again ICYMI:

10 people suffering a mass stabbing on a train at the hands of two Black "British" men for no apparent reason.


https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1985011132654829815

Way past time that the BBC stop platforming the racist activist on Question Time as an "academic"
https://x.com/AdamBienkov/status/1983853807894458653

I don't think Matthew Goodwin is a racist.

I do think he's gone off the side of the map a bit.

I think that's what Twitter can do to people.. see Carol Voderman, J K Rowling, AC Grayling, Andrew Adonis etc.

.

...the relatively civilized Matt Goodwin...

That must be one fuck of a relative...

Noted. Goodwin usually makes arguments in a broadly rational manner, using facts, accumulating data, drawing conclusions from grounds and suggesting conclusions which are more or less consistent with a society which has regard for the rule of law.

(I more or less never agree with him, his forms of fact selection (which are distortion but common in mainstream politics), or his conclusions. Like other polemicists from the PM down he leaves out facts which are unsuited to him and it isn't all that hard to see thriough him. But that's true of wet centrist liberals too, of which I suppose I am one.)

He is surrounded by people who don't do anything of the sort. People who make up facts, threaten others and act as if they have no regard for the rule of law.

For all his faults, Goodwin is useful for the moment as a measure of how a political debate is developing, and how argument can alter the Overton window.

However his use of quote marks around the word "British" referring to a man born here who has now been released as innocent and uninvolved which I quote further up is just horrible.

This is the Goodwin quote again ICYMI:

10 people suffering a mass stabbing on a train at the hands of two Black "British" men for no apparent reason.


https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1985011132654829815

Way past time that the BBC stop platforming the racist activist on Question Time as an "academic"
https://x.com/AdamBienkov/status/1983853807894458653

He's become an outrider for the far right imo.

The Fukkers with their 5 MPs seem to have a permanent chair. What about the libdems with their 72 seats? I haven't watched QT in a long time because of this blatant imbalance.

Question Time operate a kind of proportional representation, respecting Reform UK's higher vote share (and poll rating) rather than merely going on MP numbers.

9

.

Now down to one attacker on the train, looking more and more like a mental health issue. Tragic that it leads to this much suffering.

That makes a lot more sense. Presumably the other guy clobbered him? But obviously not too much or the perpetrator would have received treatment. Nice of plod to give him a night in the cells if so!

That’s bizarre to hold him for 24 hours when there’s cctv in every carriage and rather a lot of witnesses.

Possibly racially profiled and carrying a knife? But not connected? Or perhaps he looks similar to the guy and was similarly dressed? I'd be a bit pissed off if it was me held for 24 hours after an event were I was totally innocent.

I suspect that Officer Savage might have been involved...

I suspect it was dark on the station and people were confused. The unreliability of eye-witness testimony is well known (and yet our justice system continues to rely on it).

...the relatively civilized Matt Goodwin...

That must be one fuck of a relative...

Noted. Goodwin usually makes arguments in a broadly rational manner, using facts, accumulating data, drawing conclusions from grounds and suggesting conclusions which are more or less consistent with a society which has regard for the rule of law.

(I more or less never agree with him, his forms of fact selection (which are distortion but common in mainstream politics), or his conclusions. Like other polemicists from the PM down he leaves out facts which are unsuited to him and it isn't all that hard to see thriough him. But that's true of wet centrist liberals too, of which I suppose I am one.)

He is surrounded by people who don't do anything of the sort. People who make up facts, threaten others and act as if they have no regard for the rule of law.

For all his faults, Goodwin is useful for the moment as a measure of how a political debate is developing, and how argument can alter the Overton window.

However his use of quote marks around the word "British" referring to a man born here who has now been released as innocent and uninvolved which I quote further up is just horrible.

This is the Goodwin quote again ICYMI:

10 people suffering a mass stabbing on a train at the hands of two Black "British" men for no apparent reason.


https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1985011132654829815

We should absolutely encourage have a go heroes. They're a disincentive to committing crime. Trapped into some lonely old farmhouse on the promise of mattresses full of cash and the old git polishes you off with a blunderbuss? Tough tits.

So what would you do if you happened upon some violent scene?

That would depend what I felt I could do given the situation. If running away in terror was the most sensible thing to do, I would absolutely do that. The train was an incredibly difficult situation. I am sure I would have retreated, but would have hoped to be one of the ones looking around for some weapons to defend those behind them when the assailant came.

And afterwards - how would you be judged?