Best Of

What really makes me so angry/upset about this plan is that we pretty much all on here are into history, we studied and we read and what we are seeing is, in our lifetimes, one of those situations which you look on with disgust or embarrassment when studying the behaviour of past great powers.

It is watching as a great power who claims to be on the side of good selling out a seeker nation for its own financial reasons.

This awful thing that is so so clearly “not right” and totally immoral is happening now and what’s worse is if, like me, you were someone who believed that the Us, whilst flawed, was fundamentally on the side of freedom and defending those with similar values against dictators and despots and evil regimes.

If it happens then it will be an indelible stain on the US.

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

So what’s your beloved EU doing to support it ?

More than Trump.

Still not enough but at least they are not selling them down the river like the US are at the moment.

On a day that a British politician was rightfully imprisoned for taking bribes from Russia it is a shame to think that Trump will never receive a similar sentence for the same crime but on a much larger scale.

More than Trump doesn’t mean it’s adequate

This deal, it it’s as described, is diabolical and the European nations need to step up over this, peace at all costs is simply surrender

You’re usually a rational poster. What proof do you have Trump is a Russian asset ?

Because he acts as Putin’s butt boy.

This proposal is easy to reject, as Ukraine would cease to exist as an independent country.

So reject it and the EU step up and support rather than tokenism

And Trump withdraws the use of all US made weaponry across Ukraine and the EU

Trump has all the cards, but history will record him as not only US worst president but a malign influence across the world

Trump the worst president? He's not even the worst president of the 2020s.

A niche view.

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

So what’s your beloved EU doing to support it ?

More than Trump.

Still not enough but at least they are not selling them down the river like the US are at the moment.

On a day that a British politician was rightfully imprisoned for taking bribes from Russia it is a shame to think that Trump will never receive a similar sentence for the same crime but on a much larger scale.

More than Trump doesn’t mean it’s adequate

This deal, it it’s as described, is diabolical and the European nations need to step up over this, peace at all costs is simply surrender

You’re usually a rational poster. What proof do you have Trump is a Russian asset ?

Because he acts as Putin’s butt boy.

This proposal is easy to reject, as Ukraine would cease to exist as an independent country.

So reject it and the EU step up and support rather than tokenism

And Trump withdraws the use of all US made weaponry across Ukraine and the EU

Trump has all the cards, but history will record him as not only US worst president but a malign influence across the world

Trump the worst president? He's not even the worst president of the 2020s.

So, you think Biden was worse? Are you completely bonkers? The US still had the rule of law under Biden. The US still had friendly relations with its allies under Biden.

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

So what’s your beloved EU doing to support it ?

Snark even now. On this subject. Tiresome.

The answer (though why do I bother?) is it’s done a huge amount with sanctions and asset seizures thought it could do more, and militarily it varies by member state (see military spending on Ukraine by the Baltic states then compare it to PB heartthrob Meloni’s Italy), because military support is a state level responsibility.

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

So what’s your beloved EU doing to support it ?

More than Trump.

Still not enough but at least they are not selling them down the river like the US are at the moment.

On a day that a British politician was rightfully imprisoned for taking bribes from Russia it is a shame to think that Trump will never receive a similar sentence for the same crime but on a much larger scale.

I have followed the Gill case in some detail. I can't help feeling in my water that Gill was anything but a lone wolf. I just can't pinpoint who else might have been involved.

And as for those PB right wingers crying into their beer because a kindred spirit has been thrown to the dogs by the judicial system, he deserved every day of his ten and a half year sentence (5 and 1/4 really).

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

Big and slow handclap for all those [moderated] who said Trump would be better for Ukraine than Harris.

Harris was a dreadful candidate.

She was but I'll still take her over Tump, she would never have sold out Ukraine like this.

I hope Trump’s grandchildren find themselves changing their surname to escape the connection because it will mean that eventually Americans had seen through the disgusting. Venal sack of shit that he is. This attempted sell out of Ukraine should live in infamy when people discuss the worst US presidents.

Fpt

Ukraine has really had a shitty time of it. One of the most dumped-on nations in history.

Decimated by deliberate famine under Stalin, one of the biggest sources of war dead in WW2, under the Soviet yoke for decades culminating in bearing the brunt of the Chernobyl tragedy, run like a Mafia state post independence by a series of the most corrupt governments anywhere in the post Soviet sphere, then ground down by Russian aggression for a decade, subject to a bloody and ruinous invasion, and now sold down the river for money by the USA.

So what’s your beloved EU doing to support it ?

More than Trump.

Still not enough but at least they are not selling them down the river like the US are at the moment.

On a day that a British politician was rightfully imprisoned for taking bribes from Russia it is a shame to think that Trump will never receive a similar sentence for the same crime but on a much larger scale.