Best Of

FPT:

What really seemed to upset Vance and Trump was Zelensky campaigning in Pennsylvania for the Democrats and that wasn't, in fairness, the smartest move. Thank goodness none of our parties were stupid enough to send supporters to campaign for Harris.

I agree this was definitely a trigger. In that context it's funny that Starmer got away with Labour's actions. Once again it shows that this was a hatchet job on Z.

Starmer didn't get away with anything Trump and Vance are seriously harsh about Starmer's restricting free speech and the Apple backdoor nonsense

Watch the WHOLE press conference

I mean specifically the Labour representatives going to campaign for Harris. I didn't see Trump or Vance use that against Starmer; did I miss it?

I think that all of this is a series of tactical exaggerations / misrepresentations, tbh.

Here is an FT piece about a group of Republicans coming to the UK in 2015 to help the Tories campaign in marginal seats. Campaigning with sister parties over the pond is just normal, and has been so since the time of Mrs Thatcher, and perhaps earlier (I wasn't around).
https://www.ft.com/content/48d94f08-e82b-11e4-9960-00144feab7de

The President of Ukraine visiting a US Munitions plant with a representative of the US Govt to thank the workers for making shells for his country is actually exactly what Vance was demanding, ie gratitude. The issue is perhaps the Vance fantasises about the state as politicised against him. Vance's demands about "have you thanked us" are nonsense, the USA already having been thanked again at the start of the meeting. I say Vance's upset is entirely tactical.

The free speech stuff is weird. The examples in Vance's Munich speech were fabrications - whether because he's manipulating or because he's ignorant I cannot tell. "Facebook poster jailed for hurty words" claims I have seen have almost all been for far more serious offences, such as calling for hotels full of brown people to be burnt down with the brown people still in them. That's an attempted wedge issue by elements on the Right of our politics, in the hope of using talking points that used to belong to the BNP and similar to build a support base.

IMO it's all mainly Trump & Vance reacting to images they have projected on the inside of their own heads, or a deliberate political tactic. Vance gets seriously harsh when anyone refuses to kneel down and lick the boots.

Bollocks, people ARE doing jailtime for social media, and cops are knocking on doors for literally NON crime "hate incidents"

Free speech is under attack in the UK in a way we have not seen in many decades. Meanwhile we suddenly have a de facto blasphemy law that only protects Islam

There are many reasons to abhor Trump, one of them - for me - is this: his oafish, New Jersey Mafia Don impression is slowing the advance of the new right that will reverse all this shit. Cf Canada

It feels to me like Western Democracy - the amazing fruit of the Enlightenment - is dying.

What is clear is that Europe, plus Canada, Australia & NZ - these places will be the last bastions of Western Democracy, not the US.

The imminent failure of the US as key pillar of democarcy on the alt-right, no one else.

It really is dying. The stats don't lie

EIU’s 2024 Democracy Index: trend of global democratic decline and strengthening authoritarianism continues through 2024

https://www.eiu.com/n/democracy-index-2024/

Not much of a surprise. Full democracies has never been as numerous as people in the West think, and several places are backsliding. Any going in the other direction need to be celebrated.

I believe, long term, that democracy is dead

Well, we need to change that - pronto - because one thing linked to the death of democracy is a lack of respect for the sanctity of life.

Extra-judicial killings and violence is normal. And that could include you.

If Europe *really* wanted strategic and defensive independence from the USA, they would do it, however unlikely it seems now, in coordination with Russia, offer an associate EU membership (without Shengen as Russia wouldn't have any people left). That's what would really upset America, and it's what they have skilfully avoided thus far.

Fine old Soviet joke:

On the day after Gorbachev signs the order allowing citizens the right to
leave the country, he is awakened by a phone call. He picks up the phone
and hears Prime Minister Ryzhkov on the other end . "Do you see, Mikhail
Sergeyevich, what you Nave done with your order! Look out the window."
Gorbachev looks out the window and sees completely empty streets.
"What has happened, Nikolai Ivanovich? Has absolutely everybody left? Is
it only the two of us left?"
"What do you mean , two of us? I'm calling from Helsinki."

..

How old are you? 6?

Grow up

Seems spot on to me. And you are the last one to talk about people being childish. It is one of the main planks of your whole persona on here.

Yeah, but at least I’m not FAT like you, fatso

To be honest old chap I would rather be fat in the body than fat in the head.

And to whoever flagged Leon's comment, if you were doing it to defend me then thanks but it really isn't necessary. I long ago got the measure of Leon's rather fragile ego.

I didn't realize they sold rulers that long.