Best Of

I can only find one "by party" graph in the poll - support for sending troops to Ukraine. Reform UK out of line, as per the current usual.

I'd be interested to know which factions in Ref UK constitute the 20% difference. Commentary I have seen (TBF: social media of various types) suggests that they will be thinking "send the to the channel to stop the boats".

There has to first be a peace deal to enforce between Russia and Ukraine and second Russia would have to accept British peacekeeping troops none of which applies at present

Depressing that people are seriously defending the idea Russia should have a veto on what happens within a sovereign neighbouring country.

Putin says he will agree a ceasefire that leads to an 'enduring peace' but with conditions that Ukraine likely won't accept

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cgj5w6veqw6t

And Trump will pressure Ukraine to accept conditions - like no weapons shipments.

And Ukraine will reluctantly concede.

And then Russia will attack again in six months time.

And then weapons shipments to Ukraine would start again, maybe even from the US if Russia breached the deal

It'll be a bit late by then.

Why? A few months for Europe and Canada to invest in arms and defence via a ceasefire and if Russia breaches could then be deployed

Are we as NATO going to recapture Kyiv after Putin breaks the ceasefire and takes Ukraine.

No we didn't last time, just provide aid as before.

If Putin broke an agreed ceasefire US arms to Ukraine would also likely resume based on Trump's statements but a ceasefire has to be agreed first to break

Then your programme of rearming Ukraine after they have been captured by Moscow means you are too late.

Utter crap, the moment Russian troops broke a ceasefire arms would resume, they couldn't even capture Kyiv last time.

However Zelensky would have to have accepted a ceasefire on such terms anyway

Yeah but last time Ukraine had soldiers and weaponry. This time if they follow your advice they won't have soldiers and weaponry.

Why? They have soldiers and weaponry now which they could put in storage for if and when a ceasefire is broken.

If Putin and Zelensky agree a ceasefire that
is for them, you clearly would rather you and
your house were evaporated by a Russian
nuke!

Are you just being argumentative, or do you truly not understand how unbalanced Russia’s proposal is?

Well if it is that unbalanced Zelensky won't agree those terms anyway

Which is designed to make the US swing back towards Russia.

This whole thing is a game between the UK and Russia on who can swing Trump.

If Zelensky was sensible he would agree a
ceasefire on current lines but have it written in the agreement by Trump US aid and arms to Ukraine and sanctions on Russia would resume if Russian troops moved an inch beyond current Russian lines and refuse to sign without that in writing

A) sweet that you trust Trump
So Russia rearms and Ukraine doesn’t. And then Russia invades again. Doesn’t
seem… fair

Ukraine can rearm via its own factories
even under Putin’s terms, just not via imported arms.

And if Russia invaded then the US would also resume arms to Ukraine under the
terms I proposed Zelensky signs

How sweet that you trust Trump

Suggest you stick to the entrails of Tory party politics and polling data where you have sone clue what you are talking about

Putin says he will agree a ceasefire that leads to an 'enduring peace' but with conditions that Ukraine likely won't accept

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cgj5w6veqw6t

And Trump will pressure Ukraine to accept conditions - like no weapons shipments.

And Ukraine will reluctantly concede.

And then Russia will attack again in six months time.

And then weapons shipments to Ukraine would start again, maybe even from the US if Russia breached the deal

It'll be a bit late by then.

Why? A few months for Europe and Canada to invest in arms and defence via a ceasefire and if Russia breaches could then be deployed

Are we as NATO going to recapture Kyiv after Putin breaks the ceasefire and takes Ukraine.

No we didn't last time, just provide aid as before.

If Putin broke an agreed ceasefire US arms to Ukraine would also likely resume based on Trump's statements but a ceasefire has to be agreed first to break

Then your programme of rearming Ukraine after they have been captured by Moscow means you are too late.

Utter crap, the moment Russian troops broke a ceasefire arms would resume, they couldn't even capture Kyiv last time.

However Zelensky would have to have accepted a ceasefire on such terms anyway

Yeah but last time Ukraine had soldiers and weaponry. This time if they follow your advice they won't have soldiers and weaponry.

Why? They have soldiers and weaponry now which they could put in storage for if and when a ceasefire is broken.

If Putin and Zelensky agree a ceasefire that
is for them, you clearly would rather you and
your house were evaporated by a Russian
nuke!

Are you just being argumentative, or do you truly not understand how unbalanced Russia’s proposal is?

Well if it is that unbalanced Zelensky won't agree those terms anyway

Which is designed to make the US swing back towards Russia.

This whole thing is a game between the UK and Russia on who can swing Trump.

If Zelensky was sensible he would agree a
ceasefire on current lines but have it written in the agreement by Trump US aid and arms to Ukraine and sanctions on Russia would resume if Russian troops moved an inch beyond current Russian lines and refuse to sign without that in writing

A) sweet that you trust Trump
So Russia rearms and Ukraine doesn’t. And then Russia invades again. Doesn’t
seem… fair

Ukraine can rearm via its own factories
even under Putin’s terms, just not via imported arms.

And if Russia invaded then the US would also resume arms to Ukraine under the
terms I proposed Zelensky signs

How sweet that you trust Trump

Suggest you stick to the entrails of Tory party politics and polling data where you have sone clue what you are talking about

Fine I will stick sweetly on the sidelines and you can push us to nuclear war with Russia

It's fucked how not wanting a war with Russia (with a global nuclear conflict as a stretch goal) is dismissed by the warmongers, as a fringe opinion held only the uninformed and traitors.

Pretty much everyone is against war with Russia and global nuclear war.

For a change, why not make an honest argument for whatever the hell you think UK policy should be wrt Ukraine?

Being a working class Northerner, how do you lot pronounce Leominster?

I've pronounced it Lemster my entire life but somebody I heard the other day called it Leo Minster.

As a child did somebody play a cruel trick on me by telling me it was pronounced Lemster?

I think it's Lemster?

Never unless you are mental

It is pronounced Lemster, I have googled it.

I would never use Lemster, an abomination of the English language

How would you say Bicester, mister?

"Aah! Bicester!"

Former Tory mayor, 67, died in a crack den after putting a plastic bag over his head and tying himself to a chair while seeking sexual pleasure, inquest hears

A former Tory Mayor suffocated to death in a crack den after putting a plastic bag over his head and tying himself to a chair while seeking sexual pleasure, an inquest heard.

The body of Les Winwood, 67, who was the former mayor of Bridgenorth, Shropshire, was found at a Wolverhampton property on July 17, 2022.

An inquest heard how a post-mortem examination found he had spent hours alone consuming crack cocaine and vodka before he was found dead in a camping chair in the market town of Bilston.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14492185/Former-Tory-mayor-67-died-crack-den-putting-plastic-bag-head-tying-chair-seeking-sexual-pleasure-inquest-hears.html

Stephen Milligan de nos jours.

So unnecessary. This, of course, is the correct way to get high in Bridgenorth:

There are no Es in Bridgnorth :-)

Hence the crack cocaine.

Keir Starmer's tone towards civil servants has been "nothing short of disastrous" according to a former cabinet secretary - the highest official in the civil service.

Lord Gus O’Donnell served under three prime ministers as cabinet secretary between 2005 and 2011, and he tells BBC’s Radio 4’s PM programme that Starmer’s rhetoric around the “flabby state” has been damaging for his relationship with civil servants.

He explains: “Believe it or not, if you talk to civil servants and say they like managed decline and that you're going to take a chainsaw to them - do you think that's actually going to result in them performing at their best?"

As for the decision to scrap NHS England, O’Donnell suggests this has also been “chaotic”, but may save “a relatively small amount of money”.

“If they can turn this into a way of making better decisions which leads to improvements in our health service then I think it will be justified,” he says, adding that he’s not so sure if this is what will happen.

The scrapping of the NHS ( England) does look like an absolute catastrophe. Kemi Badenoch is supporting the move!

Kemi hasn't said anything about it, Davey backs Starmer's decision despite the fact it was the Coalition government he was in that created NHS England in the first place so day to day running of the NHS was overseen by an independent body not the Department of Health.

In fact 'Shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Alex Burghart cast doubts over the decision, saying Sir Keir Starmer has yet to set out "how this is going to make life better for patients" or "how much money he is going to save by doing it".

https://www.itn.co.uk/news/conservatives-react-nhs-england-abolishment-0

I just heard it on the BBC R4 6 o clock news. Kemi is on board. She said the Government will now be measured on NHS progress as they are now directly in the driving seat They can't blame anyone else.

So no she is NOT on board as such she said it was Starmer and Streeting's decision not hers and if it fails to make life better for patients or significant savings then the Opposition will blame the government

She ( and Hunt) seemed less hostile than you do to overturning Lansley's reforms.

Not their decision, though Kemi was notably less enthusiastic than Hunt anyway it is LABOUR who scrapped it and LABOUR who will be responsible for ALL the job losses and LABOUR who will be responsible for lack of NHS improvement

As a Conservative, shouldn't you be supporting getting rid of as many quango's as possible?

Being a working class Northerner, how do you lot pronounce Leominster?

I've pronounced it Lemster my entire life but somebody I heard the other day called it Leo Minster.

As a child did somebody play a cruel trick on me by telling me it was pronounced Lemster?

I think it's Lemster?

Never unless you are mental

It is pronounced Lemster, I have googled it.

Things which Malcolm gets entertainingly angry about #342: the pronunciation of 'Leominster'. Top quality stuff.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

And yet leotards come with or without spots. And Pilates doesn't rhyme with pirates (sadly).

Evening all, been absent for a couple of weeks due to the arrival of mini Selebian number 4. All good, little lad and mum doing well; three adoring elder siblings fighting over cuddles