Best Of

Up with Norwegian and Welsh, Dutch must be one of the most pointless languages to learn, since almost all native speakers have far greater English proficiency than you would ever achieve in their own language. And with Dutch it does sadly sound as if you have a public hair stuck in your throat.

As a bet, backing the Dutch Libs would clearly have been a cracking one. The odds were long, of course, because no-one saw it coming.

Maybe Ed Davey will succeed where Jo Swinson failed??

I consider myself a German speaker and it has crushed my soul that every time I start speaking German to a German, they start replying to me in English by saying ‘Ah, you are English.’

I remember that happening when I was speaking to our French lawyers for an arbitration we were doing in Paris. Every time I would ask for the person I wanted to speak to in my best schoolboy French and every time the receptionist would reply in flawless English. It was indeed crushing.

I used to be an excellent French speaker, these days I sound like Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo.

" 'Allo 'Allo", was from a lighter time when we laughed at Nazis rather than voted for them.

Wot - centrist/progressive party makes huge gains at the expense nasty populists? Imagine if that becomes a thing....

Good morning

And our conservative candidate beat reform in out local ward election last night

Won 60% of votes gaining it from Reform

From small acorns large oak trees grow

I suppose it's conceivable that the doubts about Reform's potential for serious harm might persuade right of centre voters to hold their noses & vote Conservative in this country. Not so much a resurgence of popularity as a least bad option. Or vain hope that they might tackle the problems that right of centre people perceive as serious.

Not just right of center people, Anne. Maybe one day all voters will start supporting candidates who are addressing the very real problems we face with realistic policies.

We live in hope,

Up with Norwegian and Welsh, Dutch must be one of the most pointless languages to learn, since almost all native speakers have far greater English proficiency than you would ever achieve in their own language. And with Dutch it does sadly sound as if you have a public hair stuck in your throat.

As a bet, backing the Dutch Libs would clearly have been a cracking one. The odds were long, of course, because no-one saw it coming.

Maybe Ed Davey will succeed where Jo Swinson failed??

I consider myself a German speaker and it has crushed my soul that every time I start speaking German to a German, they start replying to me in English by saying ‘Ah, you are English.’

I remember that happening when I was speaking to our French lawyers for an arbitration we were doing in Paris. Every time I would ask for the person I wanted to speak to in my best schoolboy French and every time the receptionist would reply in flawless English. It was indeed crushing.

It is a great deal better to be making the effort, rather than to begin by saying Do you speak English?

That's true. My French is definitely 'schoolboy' but I find it scores brownie points with the locals. They appreciate the effort being made.

Conversely, Mrs PtP speaks the language perfectly but with a Montreal accent. They can be a bit sniffy about that.

Up with Norwegian and Welsh, Dutch must be one of the most pointless languages to learn, since almost all native speakers have far greater English proficiency than you would ever achieve in their own language. And with Dutch it does sadly sound as if you have a public hair stuck in your throat.

As a bet, backing the Dutch Libs would clearly have been a cracking one. The odds were long, of course, because no-one saw it coming.

Maybe Ed Davey will succeed where Jo Swinson failed??

I consider myself a German speaker and it has crushed my soul that every time I start speaking German to a German, they start replying to me in English by saying ‘Ah, you are English.’

The problem with Germans is that many of them actually prefer to speak English rather than German, or some sort of weird Wenglish-style hybrid, even among themselves.

For some reason, 'kann sie think outside the box' is one of their favourite management cliches, at any rate in education, and they always say it in a mix of German and English like that.

Even though 'kann sie Aus den kisten denken' sounds a hell of a lot nicer.

"they always say it in a mix of German and English"

Do I detect a certain schadenfreude?

I am going to say something unpopular.

But so be it.

I am fed up with people calling Andrew a nonce. I have spelt out what my view of him is on here on earlier threads. It is not remotely flattering, to put it mildly.

But he has not been charged let alone convicted of anything. Nor will he be in relation to the late Ms Giuffre for obvious reasons.

And given this society's abysmal failures to deal properly or at all with actual nonces and men who have been convicted of very serious crimes - I will remind you that far too many men convicted of the possession of hundreds, thousands even of the worst category of child abuse images - each of which is evidence of a crime -avoid jail - thus leaving them entirely free to continue with their revolting harmful activities, the focus on Andrew seems to me to be displacement activity of the worst and most futile kind.

We can have lots of outrage directed at one individual while blithely ignoring our failure to do anything about the actual criminals in our midst. The inquiry about the banned subject announced several months ago will likely not even get started until next year, a year after it all kicked off and decades after many of the crimes. Many of those covered by the IICSA Reports will never receive justice and virtually all of those responsible for the crimes it covers have escaped any sort of accountability, naming or shaming. But hey shouting abuse at a stupid ex-royal - well that'll make some feel better even if it does damn all for any of the victims. And so we can feel self-righteous and good about ourselves - apparently the only metric which matters these days - while continuing to do nothing effective about the criminals or for the victims.

It's pathetic.

Evening pb.
Point #1: Due, I can only imagine, to my utter ineptitude, I have managed to post on two successive dead threads: ordinarily I would let this sort of thing slide, but I really enjoyed the photo - so with apologies, I will try again:

Posters may remember I was planning a trip to Glasgow. A full review to follow in due course. But in the meantime, the most Glaswegian image of the day from the adjacent table in the Willow Tea Rooms: Charles Rennie MacKintosh with Irn Bru.

Point #2: For the possible interest of @Theuniondivvie , @malcolmg, @Carnyx , @Fairliered and others who kindly supplied ideas for my trip north, some reflections:
I really, really like Glasgow. My adored Morningside grandmother - for whom Glasgow was number 1 in a long, long list of things of which she disapproved - may turn in her grave at me saying this, but it may be my favourite British city. Edinburgh may be more beautiful, but to this Mancunian, Glasgow feels like a city should feel, only better. I'm struggling to put my finger on exactly why. Glasgow is bloody handsome, or course, but nit as beautiful as Edinburgh. Glasgow's things-to-do quotient is high - its tourist offer, its pubs, its restaurants - but again, surely Edinburgh can easily match it? It does, to this Mancunian, feel like a city should - the right size, the right buzziness, the slight edge - is it just that I am slightly suspicious of things being too nice? I think what it comes down to is the feeling that if you lived here you could have a really nice life. And to be young here must be - if not heaven itself, pretty close.
Of course, you'd have to not mind the weather. I know people who have moved to Manchester because they couldn't cope with the rain in Glasgow any longer.

With thanks for everyone's suggestions, I have managed only a small handful. We stopped on the way to Aberfoyle and had lunch at the Griffin in that dead zone between tge city centre and the West End - the pub looked no better than miderately charming, but the food was amazing - then walked down to the Kelvingrove museum, which was brilliant - exactly what a museum should be and only a minimum of self-flagellation about the empire and climate change (compared to its counterpart in Manchester at least). Then, just as we were leaving, an organ recital! Yer actual toccata and fugue like a horror movie of old. And as we left, the sun came out, and the skyline of the university building: one of my favourite urban views in the country.
[cont in a minute...]

I've known quite a few folk who claim Glasgow has more merit than Edinburgh. They appeared to be in possession of their senses and weren't registered blind or under the influence, so maybe there is something in their opinion but, really, truthfully, there is no comparison.

It's equivalent to saying Sunderland is superior to Newcastle. You can argue the case but, honestly...

No, I cautiously stand by it, for this primary reason: living costs are a material consideration of how nice a life you could have. And you could live rather sumptiously in one of Glasgow's better suburbs for the price of somewhere either cramped or inconvenient in Edinburgh.
I would never attempt to argue the merits of Sunderland over Newcastle, even taking into account coat of living. But once you get over a threshold of "I could live here and feel I was having a good life" - which I think Glasgow offers - I think the living costs over Edinburgh give it the edge.
Edinburgh is more beautiful - and drier, certainly. But is that enough?
Maybe I am naturally predisposed to prefer places in the west...

Must agree to differ there. The combination of the New Town and the Old Town, the topography (Salisbury Crags, The Castle), the approach, the history, the culture: incomparable. You can spend days and days exploring Edinburgh. Possibly the most handsome city in the UK. Only London surpasses it, but then London is a genuine world city.

I just don't see how a Victorian industrial grid-planned settlement can compete, though I do quite like the west end.

My point is: if you were to offer me the choice of identically-sized four-bed semis on Morningside or Hillhead - well yes, I might plump for Morningside. (Though sitting in Glasgow saying that I feel awfully disloyal.) But that wouldn't be the choice, I don't think? (I haven't checked). It would be handsome four-bed semi in Hillhead or two-bed flat in Morningside/handsome four bed semi in inconvenient location with bad schools in Edinburgh. And in that eventuality, Glasgow would win.
But I can absolutely understand the position of those who put up with less comfort or convenience in Edinburgh due to living costs for the benefit of living in one of the most beautiful cities in Europe.

London is a world city, but there's very little of it I'd describe as attractive or handsome and even that is being rapidly swamped by unattractive high rise office buildings

He who is tired of London's railway network is tired of life.