Best Of

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

But your wife was born in England, and I presume grew up here. John Barnes was born and lived in Jamaica until he was 12. I don't see why it would be racist to say your wife is more English than John Barnes.

If John Barnes had a brother twelve years younger than him, born in North London and never stepping foot in Jamaica, surely he would be slightly less Jamaican than his older brother?

I don't consider myself to be English so I'm not going to police the boundaries of Englishness!

This is where I would challenge Konstantin Kisin. Since by his own definition he doesn't consider himself English, why is it for him to define who is?

There is a broader point as to why people are looking for definition in ethnic identity. Alternatively you could posit some kind of cultural identity. My prediction is that Labour will fail to do this for Britain - and indeed England if they were to try it - because any attempt to define Britishness will be exclusive in some way. And they cannot bring themselves to exclude anyone.

Does anyone want to construct a British identity that is inclusive for those whose primary loyalty is to the global ummah?

Perhaps very controversially, and this will probably upset a few PBers, I think that being English is a question of attitude, and not just a question of birth.

I would argue it's almost entirely a question of attitude.

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

But your wife was born in England, and I presume grew up here. John Barnes was born and lived in Jamaica until he was 12. I don't see why it would be racist to say your wife is more English than John Barnes.

If John Barnes had a brother twelve years younger than him, born in North London and never stepping foot in Jamaica, surely he would be slightly less Jamaican than his older brother?

I don't consider myself to be English so I'm not going to police the boundaries of Englishness!

This is where I would challenge Konstantin Kisin. Since by his own definition he doesn't consider himself English, why is it for him to define who is?

There is a broader point as to why people are looking for definition in ethnic identity. Alternatively you could posit some kind of cultural identity. My prediction is that Labour will fail to do this for Britain - and indeed England if they were to try it - because any attempt to define Britishness will be exclusive in some way. And they cannot bring themselves to exclude anyone.

Does anyone want to construct a British identity that is inclusive for those whose primary loyalty is to the global ummah?

Perhaps very controversially, and this will probably upset a few PBers, I think that being English is a question of attitude, and not just a question of birth.

A lot of German Jews thought they were Germans in the 1920s, and by and large were correct to think so.

Ultimately though it wasn't their opinion that mattered.

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

But your wife was born in England, and I presume grew up here. John Barnes was born and lived in Jamaica until he was 12. I don't see why it would be racist to say your wife is more English than John Barnes.

If John Barnes had a brother twelve years younger than him, born in North London and never stepping foot in Jamaica, surely he would be slightly less Jamaican than his older brother?

I don't consider myself to be English so I'm not going to police the boundaries of Englishness!

This is where I would challenge Konstantin Kisin. Since by his own definition he doesn't consider himself English, why is it for him to define who is?

There is a broader point as to why people are looking for definition in ethnic identity. Alternatively you could posit some kind of cultural identity. My prediction is that Labour will fail to do this for Britain - and indeed England if they were to try it - because any attempt to define Britishness will be exclusive in some way. And they cannot bring themselves to exclude anyone.

Does anyone want to construct a British identity that is inclusive for those whose primary loyalty is to the global ummah?

Perhaps very controversially, and this will probably upset a few PBers, I think that being English is a question of attitude, and not just a question of birth.

This all depends on the word “racist” having any emotional weight any more. Given that it is hurled at literally everything from maths to gardening to half of Britain - or nearly all of it if Labour is doing the hurling - then I don’t think it has any moral impact. Not any more

I think the jury is out on whether Starmer has used the right strategy, and the next few polls should give an answer

I'm quite curious @Big_G_NorthWales - I think like me you are a disillusioned Tory. As such the idea of a Labour government is pretty grim. Worse still the ideas of the whole Labour movement. So it'd be reasonable to expect me (for example) to really think that Starmer was diabolical. And yet I don't. Operating within what's classed as thinking for the Labour movement I think he's doing quite well, and Reeves too. I find it quite baffling that the world and his wife seem to completely trash what is actually to my mind a relatively sensible government, given that government is operating under the burden of a daft starting position.

Does that echo any of your thoughts?

Not really

Starmer and Reeves have been an unmitigated disaster with a job destroying budget, anti business regulations, and even now talking of spending billions more on things like axing the 2 child benefit and lots of spending promises this week

Add in free clothes, glasses, concert and football tickets plus Rayner tax evasion and the appalling decision to appoint Mandelson so they are now competing at Boris's sleeze levels

We are on the cusp of a serious debt crisis with bond rates higher than what Truss achieved all after a 40 billion tax raising budget last year and another 30 billion as a direct result of overspending and their inability to cut welfare

Imagine if when they were elected in July 2024 they told everyone they would increase taxes by 70 billion in the first 15 months what the outcry would be, and yet that is what they have done

Thanks for the reply. Interesting that we differ so. Of course you're right in what you say, but I wonder what people expected of a Labour government in difficult times. The Blair years were underpinned by the fine economic picture inherited.

I hoped Starmer pre the election was what we got but we didn't sadly

The minge vase was already ringing very hollow before the election if one cared to listen.

"Minge vase" ?

Nah. From the Qim dynasty....

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

There were female callers to James O'Brien this morning in tears because they feel unsafe in the country of their birth. It really is heartbreaking. They feel unsafe because the culture of fear that Farage and his vile minions have propagated. I f***in' despise Farage and Reform, and for once good on Starmer for calling out their racist bastardry.

His alleged schoolday anti-Semitism, his vile race-baiting politics and his dislike of people whose colour is darker than his pasty mush should be called out everyday and not celebrated. I posted earlier a Telegraph piece reporting that a Reform councillor in Cumbria? had promised to "shoot Starmer myself", yet according to Yusuf Starmer calling Reform POLICIES racist means Starmer has put a target on Farage's back.

Although when Farage made his broadcast one couldn't deny it was clever because the BBC and the Mail would deliberately misinterpret what Starmer had stated as a real and present threat. It was clever, but it is straight from the Trump playbook. The ghosts of the 1930s are here.

Come on you Tories, call this Charlatan who will devastate the country you love, out. Calling out Farage doesn't mean you don't support stopping the small boats.

Farage is a hideous, racist ****.

I think almost every Tory (or ex-Tory like myself) on this site believes that and openly says it.

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

There were female callers to James O'Brien this morning in tears because they feel unsafe in the country of their birth. It really is heartbreaking. They feel unsafe because the culture of fear that Farage and his vile minions have propagated. I f***in' despise Farage and Reform, and for once good on Starmer for calling out their racist bastardry.

His alleged schoolday anti-Semitism, his vile race-baiting politics and his dislike of people whose colour is darker than his pasty mush should be called out everyday and not celebrated. I posted earlier a Telegraph piece reporting that a Reform councillor in Cumbria? had promised to "shoot Starmer myself", yet according to Yusuf Starmer calling Reform POLICIES racist means Starmer has put a target on Farage's back.

Although when Farage made his broadcast one couldn't deny it was clever because the BBC and the Mail would deliberately misinterpret what Starmer had stated as a real and present threat. It was clever, but it is straight from the Trump playbook. The ghosts of the 1930s are here.

Come on you Tories, call this Charlatan who will devastate the country you love, out. Calling out Farage doesn't mean you don't support stopping the small boats.

I haven't followed the indefinite leave to remain story closely, but am I right in thinking the allegation of racism stems from Reform saying that they wouldn't touch the post-Brexit deal for EU nationals? Kind of ironic if so.

There's also Tice's girlfriend effectively going back to the 1980s and saying John Barnes isn't British/English.

IN the world according to @Keir_Starmer if I grew up in, say, Somalia, I could credibly claim to be Somalian. Could I? Really? I think that would be laughable.

https://x.com/sundersays/status/1973352925880787217

https://x.com/IsabelOakeshott/status/1973051041428963374

I remember meeting some friends of my grandparents who congratulated my then girlfriend, now wife, on how beautifully she spoke English. My wife is of Sri Lankan heritage (or "black as the ace of spades" as my granddad is alleged to have referred to her) but was born in Margate, and her English is a hell of a lot more beautiful than her Sinhala, judging by how tuk tuk drivers laugh at her efforts in Colombo. I suppose the people congratulating her on her English probably didn't consider themselves to have racist attitudes. My wife of course was gracious to them, as she was to my grandparents, who I think were rather fond of her.

Now about ID cards from the Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/01/keir-starmer-labour-collapse-public-support-digital-id-cards?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

That's also a demonstration of the incredibly fickle nature of public opinion.

...in June, 53% of voters surveyed said they were in favour of digital ID cards for all Britons, while 19% were opposed...

...Just 31% of people surveyed after Starmer’s announcement over the weekend said they were supportive of the scheme, with 45% saying they were opposed. Of those, 32% said they were strongly opposed...

The British electorate is Andy Pipkin personified.

"Do you really want that?"

"Yeah."

"Are you sure? Only last time, you didn't like it."

"Want it."

"Here you are then."

Pause.

"Don't like it."