Best Of

I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

Economically Reform are hard left.

No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it

The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions

I see Farage is espousing Scargillism.

Economically Reform are hard left.

No real Tory could ever countenance supporting such economic illiteracy.

Even Boris backed reopening a Cumbria coal mine, if Farage wants the South Wales white working class vote promising to reopen coal mines and sod upper middle class progressive net zero focused Londoners was the way to do it

The only reason people are talking about opening coal mines is that the collective memory of how crap working in them was has disappeared.

So you have a rose tinted viewpoint from people who can’t remember what it was really like as those who worked down them have mainly died out from lung conditions

Because of my working class roots I was surrounded by miners growing up and was at the epicentre of the 1984/85 strike.

It’s funny when the South Yorkshire clubs play Nottingham Forest and Notts County they call them the scabs because the Nottinghamshire miners, even people born twenty years after the strike still do it because they have this romantic belief about mining and the strike.

My dad was crossing picket lines and my brother was on strike. Tense times in the house.

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I see that Hamas chief Sinwar's body has been found, in a tunnel underneath a hospital. With journalists being taken to the tunnels underneath the hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62veqrq3yzo

I seem to recall @bondegezou insisting a few days ago that Hamas were actually using a school, not the hospital, a few metres away as the human shields, so that makes it OK by Hamas and a war crime by Israel to strike at him at the hospital where his body has now been found.

Good on Israel for striking another Hamas leader. A shame for the poor, innocent Palestinians who are caught in the middle and being denied refuge from this war by neighbouring states until Hamas surrenders.

The tunnels situation is quite interesting. In such a densely-packed area as Gaza, it's quite possible that a tunnel network starting from (say) a shop, spreads not just downwards, but laterally, to cover an area that encompasses the footprints of both a school and a hospital. They may (or may not) be connected to those buildings (*), but even if they are not connected, they are using those civilian structures as cover.

The idea that "it starts from a school, not the hospital" seems rather simplistic.

But on the other hand: if the network is widespread, how could the journalists know whether they are under the hospital or elsewhere (given the tunnel was apparently accessed through freshly-dug earth just outside the hospital)?

(*) It would make sense for them to be connected, even if not the primary route used.

It is astonishing that some (not you) still try to pretend that hospitals and schools are not used by Hamas for their command and control centres making them both legal targets for the Israelis and putting their own vulnerable people at risk. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Does this excuse what Israel is doing? Of course not. Much of what they are doing are war crimes. But bombing hospitals used in this way is not. It’s merely abhorrent.

Abhorrent but sadly necessary to defeat Hamas.

Too many here don't want to see Hamas defeated, or their unconditional surrender though.

The Tamil Tigers were defeated. There's no reason Hamas can't be. All it takes to end the fighting is for them to surrender.

What do you think of Israel’s latest plan to defeat Hamas, by arming ISIS-affiliated groups in Gaza? https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/middleeast/israel-arming-hamas-rivals-gaza-intl

I think it's bloody stupid and Netanyahu is the wrong person to be Israeli PM.

Israel should be seeking a monopoly of violence, as any state does.

Thank goodness Israel is a democracy and Israelis have had multiple opportunities (checks notes: since 1996) to get rid of Netanyahu, unlike the vile Gazans who bear all responsibilty for Hamas being in power since a single election in 2006.

If I had one wish it would be that someone would drop Bartholomew Roberts in the middle of Gaza with his laptop and see whether he develops into a human being

I want the war to end, with the surrender of Hamas.

That won't happen until the grievances that Hamas feeds off are addressed. Even if Hamas were somehow destroyed, some successor organisation would take its place.

Unlike, say, the Ukraine war, which is basically one man's folly, though he is backed by a band of opportunists and fanatics, the Palestinian cause seems genuinely popular and has survived God knows how many military defeats.

Until Israel offers genuine concessions and deals with the Palestinians as equals, entitled to at least some share in the land the Israelis occupied last century, the tragic, pointless sore will continue to fester.

Israel has repeatedly offered genuine concessions, this century. Such as the agreement spurned by Arafat, or the subsequent withdrawal from Gaza which Hamas then stepped into the void with. Both were before Netanyahu returned to power.

I would love nothing more than to see Hamas defeated, then some Palestinian leadership stepping into the void that settles and ends the fighting. I'm confident most Israelis would vote for that too, if it were an option.

Its not an option until Hamas is eradicated though.

The way Israel is carrying on is more likely to radicalise not only Palestinian opinion but Arab and muslim opinion more widely (as indeed we see in this country).

But I don't accept the premise that a Hamas regime was inevitable; it wasn't in the West Bank (which admittedly wasn't kept under such tight restrictions - though the restrictions followed the Hamas coup rather than vice versa). That the Palestinian leadership have previously rejected genuine offers is their own stupid fault; that doesn't give Israel a green light to make even worse decisions.

Hamas does need removing from Gaza; that's not going to happen militarily unless you remove the population - which seems to be the conclusion Israel has come to: and a a war crime and a crime against humanity. It's also a bloody stupid precedent given that extreme Arab opinion holds much the same view of the presence of the state of Israel.

If peace isn't possible without the population being moved then the population should be moved, which happens regularly in conflicts most recently in Azerbaijan without so much as a murmur from most of the world.

Though hopefully it won't come to that and Hamas can surrender instead, as the Tamil Tigers did.

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. It is never justified or necessary. Peace is possible, but it will require Israel to stop building settlements on Palestinian land, stop Israel invading its neighbour's territory and stop Israel dehumanising the Palestinian population.

My preference would be for Hamas to surrender and Palestinians to live peacefully side by side by Israel, as the Israelis have repeatedly voted for and offered but was rejected by Arafat.

If its not possible though, we need to deal with reality.

How many people were prosecuted for the "crime" of large population transfers in Azerbaijan recently?

Or is this a crime that's not generally enforced?

Netenyahu doesn't want that. He never has. Hence his open support for Hamas when they were the antagonist faction and his support now for the illegal settlers in the West Bank. He wants the Palestinians wiped out.

I don't support Netanyahu, I want Netanyahu in prison.

I do support the defeat of Hamas.

How about you?

I hate the political and military leadership of both sides equally. I want them both to lose.

Unlike you it seems, I also don't hold a Palestinian life to be worth any less than an Israeli one.

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I see that Hamas chief Sinwar's body has been found, in a tunnel underneath a hospital. With journalists being taken to the tunnels underneath the hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62veqrq3yzo

I seem to recall @bondegezou insisting a few days ago that Hamas were actually using a school, not the hospital, a few metres away as the human shields, so that makes it OK by Hamas and a war crime by Israel to strike at him at the hospital where his body has now been found.

Good on Israel for striking another Hamas leader. A shame for the poor, innocent Palestinians who are caught in the middle and being denied refuge from this war by neighbouring states until Hamas surrenders.

The tunnels situation is quite interesting. In such a densely-packed area as Gaza, it's quite possible that a tunnel network starting from (say) a shop, spreads not just downwards, but laterally, to cover an area that encompasses the footprints of both a school and a hospital. They may (or may not) be connected to those buildings (*), but even if they are not connected, they are using those civilian structures as cover.

The idea that "it starts from a school, not the hospital" seems rather simplistic.

But on the other hand: if the network is widespread, how could the journalists know whether they are under the hospital or elsewhere (given the tunnel was apparently accessed through freshly-dug earth just outside the hospital)?

(*) It would make sense for them to be connected, even if not the primary route used.

It is astonishing that some (not you) still try to pretend that hospitals and schools are not used by Hamas for their command and control centres making them both legal targets for the Israelis and putting their own vulnerable people at risk. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Does this excuse what Israel is doing? Of course not. Much of what they are doing are war crimes. But bombing hospitals used in this way is not. It’s merely abhorrent.

Abhorrent but sadly necessary to defeat Hamas.

Too many here don't want to see Hamas defeated, or their unconditional surrender though.

The Tamil Tigers were defeated. There's no reason Hamas can't be. All it takes to end the fighting is for them to surrender.

What do you think of Israel’s latest plan to defeat Hamas, by arming ISIS-affiliated groups in Gaza? https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/middleeast/israel-arming-hamas-rivals-gaza-intl

I think it's bloody stupid and Netanyahu is the wrong person to be Israeli PM.

Israel should be seeking a monopoly of violence, as any state does.

Thank goodness Israel is a democracy and Israelis have had multiple opportunities (checks notes: since 1996) to get rid of Netanyahu, unlike the vile Gazans who bear all responsibilty for Hamas being in power since a single election in 2006.

If I had one wish it would be that someone would drop Bartholomew Roberts in the middle of Gaza with his laptop and see whether he develops into a human being

I want the war to end, with the surrender of Hamas.

That won't happen until the grievances that Hamas feeds off are addressed. Even if Hamas were somehow destroyed, some successor organisation would take its place.

Unlike, say, the Ukraine war, which is basically one man's folly, though he is backed by a band of opportunists and fanatics, the Palestinian cause seems genuinely popular and has survived God knows how many military defeats.

Until Israel offers genuine concessions and deals with the Palestinians as equals, entitled to at least some share in the land the Israelis occupied last century, the tragic, pointless sore will continue to fester.

Israel has repeatedly offered genuine concessions, this century. Such as the agreement spurned by Arafat, or the subsequent withdrawal from Gaza which Hamas then stepped into the void with. Both were before Netanyahu returned to power.

I would love nothing more than to see Hamas defeated, then some Palestinian leadership stepping into the void that settles and ends the fighting. I'm confident most Israelis would vote for that too, if it were an option.

Its not an option until Hamas is eradicated though.

The way Israel is carrying on is more likely to radicalise not only Palestinian opinion but Arab and muslim opinion more widely (as indeed we see in this country).

But I don't accept the premise that a Hamas regime was inevitable; it wasn't in the West Bank (which admittedly wasn't kept under such tight restrictions - though the restrictions followed the Hamas coup rather than vice versa). That the Palestinian leadership have previously rejected genuine offers is their own stupid fault; that doesn't give Israel a green light to make even worse decisions.

Hamas does need removing from Gaza; that's not going to happen militarily unless you remove the population - which seems to be the conclusion Israel has come to: and a a war crime and a crime against humanity. It's also a bloody stupid precedent given that extreme Arab opinion holds much the same view of the presence of the state of Israel.

If peace isn't possible without the population being moved then the population should be moved, which happens regularly in conflicts most recently in Azerbaijan without so much as a murmur from most of the world.

Though hopefully it won't come to that and Hamas can surrender instead, as the Tamil Tigers did.

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. It is never justified or necessary. Peace is possible, but it will require Israel to stop building settlements on Palestinian land, stop Israel invading its neighbour's territory and stop Israel dehumanising the Palestinian population.

And what should Hamas do? You've conveniently forgotten their role completely.

Hamas are a lawless guerilla group who happen to claim to speak for a displaced nation. They are a mafia organisation.

But not quite as lawless as the ISIS militia who are Bibi’s current besties. In fact law abidance seems very low down Netanyahu’s priorities as can be seen from the behaviour of Israeli settlers and security forces in the West Bank, and indeed Bibi’s own endless trial on charges of fraud, bribery and corruption,

.

I see that Hamas chief Sinwar's body has been found, in a tunnel underneath a hospital. With journalists being taken to the tunnels underneath the hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62veqrq3yzo

I seem to recall @bondegezou insisting a few days ago that Hamas were actually using a school, not the hospital, a few metres away as the human shields, so that makes it OK by Hamas and a war crime by Israel to strike at him at the hospital where his body has now been found.

Good on Israel for striking another Hamas leader. A shame for the poor, innocent Palestinians who are caught in the middle and being denied refuge from this war by neighbouring states until Hamas surrenders.

The tunnels situation is quite interesting. In such a densely-packed area as Gaza, it's quite possible that a tunnel network starting from (say) a shop, spreads not just downwards, but laterally, to cover an area that encompasses the footprints of both a school and a hospital. They may (or may not) be connected to those buildings (*), but even if they are not connected, they are using those civilian structures as cover.

The idea that "it starts from a school, not the hospital" seems rather simplistic.

But on the other hand: if the network is widespread, how could the journalists know whether they are under the hospital or elsewhere (given the tunnel was apparently accessed through freshly-dug earth just outside the hospital)?

(*) It would make sense for them to be connected, even if not the primary route used.

It is astonishing that some (not you) still try to pretend that hospitals and schools are not used by Hamas for their command and control centres making them both legal targets for the Israelis and putting their own vulnerable people at risk. The evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Does this excuse what Israel is doing? Of course not. Much of what they are doing are war crimes. But bombing hospitals used in this way is not. It’s merely abhorrent.

Abhorrent but sadly necessary to defeat Hamas.

Too many here don't want to see Hamas defeated, or their unconditional surrender though.

The Tamil Tigers were defeated. There's no reason Hamas can't be. All it takes to end the fighting is for them to surrender.

What do you think of Israel’s latest plan to defeat Hamas, by arming ISIS-affiliated groups in Gaza? https://edition.cnn.com/2025/06/06/middleeast/israel-arming-hamas-rivals-gaza-intl

I think it's bloody stupid and Netanyahu is the wrong person to be Israeli PM.

Israel should be seeking a monopoly of violence, as any state does.

Thank goodness Israel is a democracy and Israelis have had multiple opportunities (checks notes: since 1996) to get rid of Netanyahu, unlike the vile Gazans who bear all responsibilty for Hamas being in power since a single election in 2006.

If I had one wish it would be that someone would drop Bartholomew Roberts in the middle of Gaza with his laptop and see whether he develops into a human being

I want the war to end, with the surrender of Hamas.

That won't happen until the grievances that Hamas feeds off are addressed. Even if Hamas were somehow destroyed, some successor organisation would take its place.

Unlike, say, the Ukraine war, which is basically one man's folly, though he is backed by a band of opportunists and fanatics, the Palestinian cause seems genuinely popular and has survived God knows how many military defeats.

Until Israel offers genuine concessions and deals with the Palestinians as equals, entitled to at least some share in the land the Israelis occupied last century, the tragic, pointless sore will continue to fester.

Israel has repeatedly offered genuine concessions, this century. Such as the agreement spurned by Arafat, or the subsequent withdrawal from Gaza which Hamas then stepped into the void with. Both were before Netanyahu returned to power.

I would love nothing more than to see Hamas defeated, then some Palestinian leadership stepping into the void that settles and ends the fighting. I'm confident most Israelis would vote for that too, if it were an option.

Its not an option until Hamas is eradicated though.

The way Israel is carrying on is more likely to radicalise not only Palestinian opinion but Arab and muslim opinion more widely (as indeed we see in this country).

But I don't accept the premise that a Hamas regime was inevitable; it wasn't in the West Bank (which admittedly wasn't kept under such tight restrictions - though the restrictions followed the Hamas coup rather than vice versa). That the Palestinian leadership have previously rejected genuine offers is their own stupid fault; that doesn't give Israel a green light to make even worse decisions.

Hamas does need removing from Gaza; that's not going to happen militarily unless you remove the population - which seems to be the conclusion Israel has come to: and a a war crime and a crime against humanity. It's also a bloody stupid precedent given that extreme Arab opinion holds much the same view of the presence of the state of Israel.

If peace isn't possible without the population being moved then the population should be moved, which happens regularly in conflicts most recently in Azerbaijan without so much as a murmur from most of the world.

Though hopefully it won't come to that and Hamas can surrender instead, as the Tamil Tigers did.

Ethnic cleansing is a crime against humanity. It is never justified or necessary. Peace is possible, but it will require Israel to stop building settlements on Palestinian land, stop Israel invading its neighbour's territory and stop Israel dehumanising the Palestinian population.

I see that Hamas chief Sinwar's body has been found, in a tunnel underneath a hospital. With journalists being taken to the tunnels underneath the hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62veqrq3yzo

I seem to recall @bondegezou insisting a few days ago that Hamas were actually using a school, not the hospital, a few metres away as the human shields, so that makes it OK by Hamas and a war crime by Israel to strike at him at the hospital where his body has now been found.

Good on Israel for striking another Hamas leader. A shame for the poor, innocent Palestinians who are caught in the middle and being denied refuge from this war by neighbouring states until Hamas surrenders.

War crimes are being committed by both sides. Of the two, the greater are now those being committed by Israel, which appears to have a policy of, at the minimum, expelling the Palestinian population of Gaza and, perhaps, given the starvation blockade, simply killing off 2 million people or a substantial proportion of them.

For those who say 'but it's a war; nasty stuff happens', yes: that's why there are rules under international law. Sometimes innocent civilians get killed in wars, especially urban wars and even more so urban wars where one side is using civilian infrastructure as shields (and the other doesn't care that they are). That is to be expected and, while deaths should be minimised where possible, armed forces still have to be able to engage the enemy. However, the deliberate starvation of a nation is a war crime and occupying powers - which Israel now is - have duties to the civilians under their control.