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There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.

I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.

There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.

I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.

He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.

@DecrepiterJohnL said this on a previous thread -

"This is a debate conducted by ideologues throwing up chaff in support of their own prejudices."

In relation to the Lords debate on Assisted Dying.

It is a quite disgraceful statement, frankly. First, because speeches have been deliberately curtailed with Falconer trying to push it through as quickly as possible with little scrutiny. Second, because the Lords Committee and a number of institutions closely involved in this should the Bill passes have come out in detail with all the problems with the Bill, the safeguards that are missing and the ones that are needed.

Lord Barker, one of the Bill's supporters, argued in the Lords today that there should be assisted suicide because palliative care is too expensive and no government will properly fund it. Not so much an argument as the grim reality revealed by ideologues who seek to hide their own selfishness under the guise of "choice" and "autonomy".

As someone with Stage 4 cancer who one day - probably sooner than I would like - will likely need such care, if this Bill passes, I fear that I will be put in the "too expensive to care for pile" and pressured or neglected into death.

That genuine fear is not prejudice and a society that tries to pretend that this is autonomous choice rather than deliberate neglect of and contempt for the vulnerable is one that has chosen to go down a very dark road indeed.

It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.

I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.

As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.

Labour might do something stupid? Like appointing Peter Mandelson to US ambassador? Can't imagine it

@BillyBaldwin

Not Black.
Not Trans.
Not Muslim.
Not an Immigrant.
Not a Democrat.

Meet Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson.

A white Christian, Conservative, Republican male with a gun... again.

https://x.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1966505118989172895

Hmmm, as much as I want to trust random people on twitter…

He does not appear to have any criminal history, according to state records reviewed by Reuters. He was a registered voter but was not affiliated with a political party, according to state voter records.

@BillyBaldwin

Not Black.
Not Trans.
Not Muslim.
Not an Immigrant.
Not a Democrat.

Meet Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson.

A white Christian, Conservative, Republican male with a gun... again.

https://x.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1966505118989172895

Are you sure about this? I genuinely don’t know

There are people - not entirely unreliable - claiming he recently swerved violently left, denouncing Kirk and Trump etc as Nazis. I’ve no idea

People will say whatever makes them feel best - whether left wing or right wing.

Who knows what the truth is these days. But it does seem like he wrote “hey fascist catch” on the bullet casings. This was in the FBI and governor briefings? Also an antifa slogan

And the family do seem to be reporting he turned extreme left quite recently

However - big caveat - maybe this is all made up bollocks on X? It’s so hard to pin down the actuality

Too many of these extreme left and extreme right shootings. Why are they never extreme centrist dads?

Turns out it’s true. He really did write “hey fascist, catch” on the bullet casings. He really did write an antifa chant. He really did swing extremely leftwing according to the family

So all this stuff about him being a Republican and a groyper and all that is total bullshit. Likewise the attempt to blur him as a memelord

This is desperate spin. He’s from a republican family but he’s antifa. He’s extreme left

Did you learn nothing from the Minnesota shootings earlier on this year?

I guess not.

@BillyBaldwin

Not Black.
Not Trans.
Not Muslim.
Not an Immigrant.
Not a Democrat.

Meet Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson.

A white Christian, Conservative, Republican male with a gun... again.

https://x.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1966505118989172895

Hmmm, as much as I want to trust random people on twitter…

He does not appear to have any criminal history, according to state records reviewed by Reuters. He was a registered voter but was not affiliated with a political party, according to state voter records.

@BillyBaldwin

Not Black.
Not Trans.
Not Muslim.
Not an Immigrant.
Not a Democrat.

Meet Charlie Kirk assassin Tyler Robinson.

A white Christian, Conservative, Republican male with a gun... again.

https://x.com/BillyBaldwin/status/1966505118989172895

Are you sure about this? I genuinely don’t know

There are people - not entirely unreliable - claiming he recently swerved violently left, denouncing Kirk and Trump etc as Nazis. I’ve no idea

People will say whatever makes them feel best - whether left wing or right wing.

Who knows what the truth is these days. But it does seem like he wrote “hey fascist catch” on the bullet casings. This was in the FBI and governor briefings? Also an antifa slogan

And the family do seem to be reporting he turned extreme left quite recently

However - big caveat - maybe this is all made up bollocks on X? It’s so hard to pin down the actuality

It is human nature to try and rearrange reality to fit your existing prejudices.

If it turns out that he turned Left, then the Left will argue that this whole thing was a False Flag operation,

Alternatively, it could be that he was on the Right and was incensed by Charlie Kirk's recent change of position on Epstein (where he's suddenly decided the files shouldn't be released, and which has caused much consernation online).

The reality is, whether he is of the Left or the Right, is that he is another mentally unstable person who had access to guns. He's also not the only politically prominent person to get shot in the last few years: the Democratic Speaker of the Minnesota House was shot (and murdered) back in June.

Both killings are abhorrent, and when we start trying to pin everything on "the other side", we end up excusing and normalising violence. We also end up with a situation - like in pre-WW2 Japan - where fear of violence stops people from standing up.

It doesn't matter who - or why - Kirk was killed. What matters is that it is not used to for political purposes to try and divide the US further.