politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Growing a beard: How male supporters of the main parties di
The choice of questions for the weekly Sunday Times YouGov poll is a good indication of what’s been going on in the previous week and today a large part of the poll is devoted to beards – sparked off by Jeremy Paxman.
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The gender split on that VI question may have given very different resultstim said:So the LD beard thing is true.
Assuming they mean a beard on your face of course.
And even the wording of that is sub optimal.0 -
Rare to see a poll with the Lib Dems ahead, if only by a whisker0
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Totally off topic but of interest to Sunil :-
34046 Braunstone heading Torbay Express is passing Dawlish at around 11 28 It can be seen on the live Dawlish Railcam0 -
@MarkSenior - Braunton ran for the first time since 1965 on the main line with fare paying passengers on Wednesday. Am hoping to see it run later this month.
Grew a beard as a rag week stunt - shaved part of it off - raised large amount for charidee...was worth looking silly for a few days.0 -
Ha, unsurprised that the Lib Dems are most beardy.
Interesting that the more rightwing you are the more likely you are to be clean-shaven.0 -
Just passed Exeter St Davidsdr_spyn said:@MarkSenior - Braunton ran for the first time since 1965 on the main line with fare paying passengers on Wednesday. Am hoping to see it run later this month.
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My grandmother told me: "no one ever trusts a solicitor with a beard". So I have never worn a beard.0
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@marksenior Am looking for reports of kettle veg on lineside...will look for you tube clips later.0
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I seem to recall Ed has had a bit of bother with beards.tim said:I seem to remember Cameron saying he couldn't grow hair on his face, besides the rather sad Gary Neville moustache he appears with from time to time
http://davidprescott.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/img00544-20090716-19282.jpg?w=1024&h=768
http://metro.co.uk/2012/03/16/ed-miliband-asks-bearded-man-if-hes-a-lady-355135/0 -
FPT @redrag1
I hate to point it out, but, it may effect the leadership ratings, but leadership rating don't win elections .. it's people who vote that win elections and Labours vote is steady.
One of the main benefactors for Labour is the fact that the Lib Dems who crossed over to Labour in 2010 after the coalition was formed are now limpet like with Labour. ... they are sticking with Labour no matter what.
It may not be a resounding endorsement for Ed Miliband, but he doesn't need endorsements, he needs voters, and the most important set of voters at the moment(Lib Dem switchers) are saying the are going to vote Labour.......and they have now said that for three years.
I think that is the key point.
The next election is going to be a fascinating exercise in divided loyalties and human psychology. Roughly speaking, from right to left:
UKIP: committed Kippers or NOTA?
UKIP/Tory waverers: Will they hold their nose and vote to keep Labour out?
Tory: Are they enthused enough?
LD 2010 defectors: Can betrayal be forgiven?
Lab: Does Ed enthuse voters?
SLAB: Was Brown's Scottishness a factor?
My guess is that, ultimately, we will see a lot of people not voting in this election, as happened to the Tories in 1997. People forget that while Blair added 2m votes, Major lost 4.5m. And the issue for the Tories has been, once people get out of the habit of voting, they realise it doesn't change very much and life goes on. So they are harder to get to the polls next time.
I also don't think that 2015 will be seen as an "existential" election in the same way as 2010 was a competing world view (in perception at least). The Tory theme will be "we've made a good start but need more time" while Labour will be "we're nicer than those horrible Tories"
To which the public will respond: MEH!0 -
I'll just take this chance to plug "Movember" which I have taken part in the last two years, and will again this year, to raise funds for men's cancer charities.0
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Steamed past the Dawlish cam hauling 10 coaches plus brake van .dr_spyn said:@marksenior Am looking for reports of kettle veg on lineside...will look for you tube clips later.
For those remotely interested , There are 4 live rail cams round the country , Dawlish , Euxton on WCML , Cramlington on ECML and Todmorden .
The website realtimetrains.co.uk gives live up to date running information on all trains in the UK , passenger , freight and specials .
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Come the end of Movember, we have a sort of ritual shaving off of the 'taches. Dunno why, but everyone, without exception, always tries out a bit of a Hitler, just to see how it looks, before shaking their head and finishing the shave.No_Offence_Alan said:I'll just take this chance to plug "Movember" which I have taken part in the last two years, and will again this year, to raise funds for men's cancer charities.
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Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?0 -
Now if they'd asked
Have you
a) Never had a beard,
b) Ever had a beard
c) Have a beard now
I wonder what the results per party would have been.
(For the record: active Lib in 70-80. Had a beard some of that time. Now clean-shaven, at least in part due to wife's strongly expressed views!0 -
Greetings from an overcast Rio de Janeiro!
How do you define a beard? Does it have to be deliberately cultivated or can it be the product of not being bothered about shaving for a few days? If the latter I have spent quite a bit if time with a beard (got one now, in fact); if the former I've never had one.0 -
Was the second question asked to women only? That might help.tim said:I do not usually have a beard, but sometimes grow
one when I am on holiday or on leave from work
23%
Thinking about your spouse or partner, which of
the following applies to them?
They do not usually have a beard, but sometimes
grow one when they are on holiday or on leave from
work
13%
What's going on there then, are single blokes more likely to grow beards when on holiday or are there a large number of men who think they've grown a beard but nobody can tell?
Then there are issues like widows, LBGT etc.0 -
The BBC website - http://thebritishbeardclub.org/index.php0
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Never tried that. Each year I aim for a "Des Lynam" but end up with an "Inspector Blakey".TwistedFireStopper said:
Come the end of Movember, we have a sort of ritual shaving off of the 'taches. Dunno why, but everyone, without exception, always tries out a bit of a Hitler, just to see how it looks, before shaking their head and finishing the shave.No_Offence_Alan said:I'll just take this chance to plug "Movember" which I have taken part in the last two years, and will again this year, to raise funds for men's cancer charities.
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con·nip·tion (k-npshn) - n. Informal - A fit of violent emotion, such as anger or panic.SeanT said:
But it was only a year or so ago that crossover happened and everyone had conniptions.Schards said:Rare to see a poll with the Lib Dems ahead, if only by a whisker
You learn something new every day on PB.0 -
Is that fom a US dictionary? OED has this:SimonStClare said:
con·nip·tion (k-npshn) - n. Informal - A fit of violent emotion, such as anger or panic.
You learn something new every day on PB.
noun
North American informal
a fit of rage or hysterics:
his client was having conniptions on the phone
Origin:
mid 19th century: probably an invented word
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A quick trawl of on-line dictionaries suggests US and Canadian origin.JonnyJimmy said:
Is that fom a US dictionary? OED has this:SimonStClare said:
con·nip·tion (k-npshn) - n. Informal - A fit of violent emotion, such as anger or panic.
You learn something new every day on PB.
noun
North American informal
a fit of rage or hysterics:
his client was having conniptions on the phone
Origin:
I always find it advantageous to check first, before accusing SeanT of ‘making up words’ – He’s usually right…!
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You are assuming that it is the men who have the beards.tim said:I do not usually have a beard, but sometimes grow
one when I am on holiday or on leave from work
23%
Thinking about your spouse or partner, which of
the following applies to them?
They do not usually have a beard, but sometimes
grow one when they are on holiday or on leave from
work
13%
What's going on there then, are single blokes more likely to grow beards when on holiday or are there a large number of men who think they've grown a beard but nobody can tell?0 -
Iain Duncan Smith MP @IDS_MP
So you're 'Turning up the volume' @ChukaUmunna worked out well for me back in the day x0 -
Spoof IDS account, no?Plato said:Iain Duncan Smith MP @IDS_MP
So you're 'Turning up the volume' @ChukaUmunna worked out well for me back in the day x
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Says the man who topped the "who?" Poll of the Labour front benchers in the question on a Miliband replacement:Plato said:Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?
"Don't know, or don't know enough about this person"
Balls: 25
Harman: 32
Cooper: 45
Burnham: 48
Umunna: 61
To add insult to injury, YouGov spelled his name "Umanna"....maybe they were thinking "Obama"...0 -
Ed is having a great week. Swift. Decisive. Ruthless. Not crap, at all...Plato said:Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?Ed Miliband faces his most dismal week yet after two Labour heavyweights today mauled his leadership and polls suggested that increasing numbers of voters think he is doing a poor job.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3846179.ece
Caroline Flint, the Shadow Energy Secretary, acknowledged that Labour needed to “redouble our efforts to win the confidence of the public”0 -
Some blokes know we're more likely to pull if we hide most of our faces!tim said:
Two edged sword that, blokes on the pull. Are they more likely to shave?0 -
@rowenamason
Chuka Umunna says Labour will be turning up the volume.... In Walworth on Weds, Ed M insisted Labour was already talking enough0 -
Just heard Chuka on the radio, he says Ed is "one thousand percent" the right man to lead the party.0
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No idea - not their typical target I suppose.tim said:
Two edged sword that, blokes on the pull. Are they more likely to shave?Charles said:
I'd assume that a lot of single blokes don't bother to shave on holidaytim said:
What's going on there then, are single blokes more likely to grow beards when on holiday or are there a large number of men who think they've grown a beard but nobody can tell?
Perhaps Neil might know ;-)0 -
The corollary of these people being unknown is that being tainted by their public association with previous governments is not a major risk, and that helpful Conservative advice on those lines is best ignored.CarlottaVance said:
Says the man who topped the "who?" Poll of the Labour front benchers in the question on a Miliband replacement:Plato said:Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?
"Don't know, or don't know enough about this person"
Balls: 25
Harman: 32
Cooper: 45
Burnham: 48
Umunna: 61
To add insult to injury, YouGov spelled his name "Umanna"....maybe they were thinking "Obama"...0 -
Haha: great thread Mike! I love these sorts of correlations. This one nicely illustrates the sandal-wearing beard theories re. LD's, especially compared to kippers.
Excellent stuff
Presumably, then, voting intention opinion pollsters could simply ask their male respondents about beards? Well, possibly some female ones too for that matter. 0 -
It's all going spendidly - picking a fight with Unite was a masterstroke, the Trappist Summer Strategy ditto...
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3846179.eceScott_P said:
Ed is having a great week. Swift. Decisive. Ruthless. Not crap, at all...Plato said:Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?Ed Miliband faces his most dismal week yet after two Labour heavyweights today mauled his leadership and polls suggested that increasing numbers of voters think he is doing a poor job.
Caroline Flint, the Shadow Energy Secretary, acknowledged that Labour needed to “redouble our efforts to win the confidence of the public”
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Is he a football manager in his spare time?JonnyJimmy said:Just heard Chuka on the radio, he says Ed is "one thousand percent" the right man to lead the party.
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http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3846179.eceScott_P said:
Ed is having a great week. Swift. Decisive. Ruthless. Not crap, at all...Plato said:Tim Shipman (Mail) @ShippersUnbound
'We're talking loud and we'll be turning up the volume,' says Chuka Umunna. Is it so bad that channeling IDS is seen as the answer!?Ed Miliband faces his most dismal week yet after two Labour heavyweights today mauled his leadership and polls suggested that increasing numbers of voters think he is doing a poor job.
Caroline Flint, the Shadow Energy Secretary, acknowledged that Labour needed to “redouble our efforts to win the confidence of the public”
I'm becoming increasingly of the opinion that EdM is unelectable, in the way that many of us knew instantly IDS was.0 -
My life is complete!
Lord Michael Dobbs retweeted
PlatoSays @PlatoSays
MT @ShippersUnbound @dobbs_michael must be thrilled by Charles' attempts to subvert the political process. Predicted in To Play The King0 -
Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?0
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When it gets this easy to parody
Owen Eoins @OwenEoins84
Diverse menu including: lentil soup, lentil casserole, lentil dhal, lentil burger, lentil mash & lentilbockerglory #YUM #Balcombe #FoodTent0 -
I'll be fine - expecting devaluation and declining house prices. So have positioned my portfolio accordingly. The UK will become a 'buy' by 2018/9 as assets will be relatively cheap but the long-term upside looks more positive ahead of the 2020 election.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
(please pass the salt)0 -
Talking of beards, does anyone know when Ladbrokes are going to settle the bet on Jeremy Paxman being bearded on 14 August?0
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He's got a great mash-up name.SeanT said:
He's rather funny. I actually believed he was real for the first few tweets.Plato said:When it gets this easy to parody
Owen Eoins @OwenEoins84
Diverse menu including: lentil soup, lentil casserole, lentil dhal, lentil burger, lentil mash & lentilbockerglory #YUM #Balcombe #FoodTent
@Len4Untie is another great one as is of course @IDS_MP who convinces an enormous number of Outrage Bus passengers.0 -
Have you been taking "downers"? Bland the Younger will never be PM.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
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I'm not fretting yet that we're near Ed being deposed but its fun to refresh the #SaveEd meme. It's been a shocker of a week or three.Easterross said:
Have you been taking "downers"? Bland the Younger will never be PM.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
Even if he delivers another Speech of a Lifetime - he's got a shedload of self inflicted problems as a result of Falkirk - the planned bun-fight over funding, the internecine war in the run up to it and fall-out after.
It's a mess. It's far too close to GE2015 to be fannying about like this, and with a pitiful soft lead of mid-single figures.
And he's got yet another reshuffle on the cards as if that'll turn him into Superman. He's got little talent and has already done this how many times already? Deckchairs on the Titanic.0 -
It is indeed a mess. Be sure to let us know when it turns into a the sort of mess that concerns ordinary people who respond to opinion polls and, you know, vote.Plato said:
I'm not fretting yet that we're near Ed being deposed but its fun to refresh the #SaveEd meme. It's been a shocker of a week or three.Easterross said:
Have you been taking "downers"? Bland the Younger will never be PM.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
Even if he delivers another Speech of a Lifetime - he's got a shedload of self inflicted problems as a result of Falkirk - the planned bun-fight over funding, the internecine war in the run up to it and fall-out after.
It's a mess.0 -
The funny thing is that IDS's Conservatives actually did quite well at the ballot box. His problem was not voters but MPs who'd taken against him.Ricardohos said:
I'm becoming increasingly of the opinion that EdM is unelectable, in the way that many of us knew instantly IDS was.
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So Labour's VI polling with them ahead is no comfort if a stream of Labour MPs, Peers, spin doctors and activists queue up to criticise Ed in the National press?DecrepitJohnL said:
The funny thing is that IDS's Conservatives actually did quite well at the ballot box. His problem was not voters but MPs who'd taken against him.
Oh...0 -
Are you unknown, does not matter until you stand for leader, ask Cameron and Obama!0
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Its okay Scott, the wine salesman has spoken. Ed will win and we don't know anything about politics.Scott_P said:
So Labour's VI polling with them ahead is no comfort if a stream of Labour MPs, Peers, spin doctors and activists queue up to criticise Ed in the National press?DecrepitJohnL said:
The funny thing is that IDS's Conservatives actually did quite well at the ballot box. His problem was not voters but MPs who'd taken against him.
Oh...0 -
In Oz a bad Newspoll for the ALP, the Coalition up 54-46, ie 1996 levels, and more ALP voters prefer Gillard to Rudd (though this was always so, swing voters preferred Rudd). Abbott strong favourite now, but then so was Hewson in 1993 and Keating also polled a 46 at his lowest point in '93 so may still be worth a punt on the ALP if their odds drift and another poll next week shows it tighter. The ALP will now be relying on attack ads on Abbott's cuts and a strong Rudd performance in his townhall with Abbott on Wednesday
http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=897835&vId=0 -
Golly Mr Decrepit - how desperate do things need to get? Polls are saying your leader is terrible, that half of his own voters can't see him being PM, that the ICM Wisdom Index is 31/32 and was most accurate reflection of the GE2010 result? THESE ARE VOTERS.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is indeed a mess. Be sure to let us know when it turns into a the sort of mess that concerns ordinary people who respond to opinion polls and, you know, vote.Plato said:
I'm not fretting yet that we're near Ed being deposed but its fun to refresh the #SaveEd meme. It's been a shocker of a week or three.Easterross said:
Have you been taking "downers"? Bland the Younger will never be PM.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
Even if he delivers another Speech of a Lifetime - he's got a shedload of self inflicted problems as a result of Falkirk - the planned bun-fight over funding, the internecine war in the run up to it and fall-out after.
It's a mess.
Oh and picking a fight with your own biggest donors?
Still, its all just a flesh wound - and voters will be flocking to Labour in 2015. Goodness me.0 -
Shall we talk about Labour and say, Tower Hamlets????tim said:Morris_Dancer said:Ha, unsurprised that the Lib Dems are most beardy.
Interesting that the more rightwing you are the more likely you are to be clean-shaven.
Abu Qatada, Anjem Choudhary, Abu Hamza
All good conservatives.0 -
Beard polling? Capital idea. Personally I've never had one because I simply cannot grow one (far too patchy, and the various bits on my face never join up properly) - when I see turn of the 20th century photos with teenagers with gloriously voluminous mustaches, I wonder just what changed.0
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0
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Easteross Wine salesman? he always maintained he was a Farmer, in Cheshire, as well as being a full time Labour Blogger, multi talented is that lad0
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It's ok, these guys don't votePlato said:THESE ARE VOTERS.
@TimMontgomerie
10% tell @YouGov that Ed Miliband has been a strong leader of the Labour Party; 51% say he's been weak http://twitpic.com/d8z14f
Luckily we have OGH and Farmer tim to interpret this polling for us.
Ed is strong, swift, decisive, ruthless, right?0 -
I'm all for a bit of strategic denial and whistling in the dark but there comes a point when even @LabourPressOffice are kidding themselves.Scott_P said:
It's ok, these guys don't votePlato said:THESE ARE VOTERS.
@TimMontgomerie
10% tell @YouGov that Ed Miliband has been a strong leader of the Labour Party; 51% say he's been weak http://twitpic.com/d8z14f
Luckily we have OGH and Farmer tim to interpret this polling for us.
Ed is strong, swift, decisive, ruthless, right?
When they feel the need to tweet me that XXX is on BBC24 NOW just in case I miss the Lesser Spotted Shadow Minister it just shows how risible this has become. They tweeted me at about 1AM - yes 1AM to tell me about Hilary Benn doing something.
The LOOK WE'RE OVER HERE!!! pleading just smacks of a party who the media are ignoring unless they're being rude about each other. It's reminiscent of the Tory infighting under Hague when the media only wanted to hear rubbishing.
They smell a bigger problem that we're currently seeing.0 -
Post a comment about Ed's polling. Up pops my creepy stalker Farmer tim, with a list of things unrelated to Ed's disastrous polling numbers...
Just ignore it. Ed is strong, swift, decisive, ruthless. Nothing to see here.tim said:
you need someone to help you to interpret polling.
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Ed makes a swift, decisive announcement
@Sun_Politics: EXC: Mili-banned - desperate Labour leader tries to ditch Welfare Party tag http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/5080666/Labour-bid-to-ditch-Welfare-Party-tag.html0 -
Eton Eton Eton Retread Memes Eton Pasties Fatcha Pasties
That's a very effective strategy if you're measuring desperation.0 -
Back on topic! When does stubble become a beard? I've just trimmed mine, as I do every few weeks, to 5mm; is that still a beard?0
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To be fair his polling has been consistently poor given he is the sole opposition representative and there are very few polling examples to suggest otherwise - even if those are flagged relentlessly on this site.tim said:@ScottP
You've posted about Eds disastrous polling for the last eighteen months, in all bar three of those months he had a lead over Cameron.
If you suddenly want to be taken seriously on polling could you give us a bit more notice?0 -
A beard doesn't give your other half a red face the next morning.JonnyJimmy said:Back on topic! When does stubble become a beard? I've just trimmed mine, as I do every few weeks, to 5mm; is that still a beard?
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Um, there is a solution if you find that following the Labour Press Office gets you too many tweets about what Shadow Ministers are doing...Plato said:
I'm all for a bit of strategic denial and whistling in the dark but there comes a point when even @LabourPressOffice are kidding themselves.
When they feel the need to tweet me that XXX is on BBC24 NOW just in case I miss the Lesser Spotted Shadow Minister it just shows how risible this has become.
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He's not my leader. And the polls show that, yes, voters will be flocking to Labour in 2015.Plato said:
Golly Mr Decrepit - how desperate do things need to get? Polls are saying your leader is terrible, that half of his own voters can't see him being PM, that the ICM Wisdom Index is 31/32 and was most accurate reflection of the GE2010 result? THESE ARE VOTERS.DecrepitJohnL said:
It is indeed a mess. Be sure to let us know when it turns into a the sort of mess that concerns ordinary people who respond to opinion polls and, you know, vote.Plato said:
I'm not fretting yet that we're near Ed being deposed but its fun to refresh the #SaveEd meme. It's been a shocker of a week or three.Easterross said:
Have you been taking "downers"? Bland the Younger will never be PM.TwistedFireStopper said:Just how galling will it be when crap Ed Milliband gets the keys to number 10, come 2015?
Even if he delivers another Speech of a Lifetime - he's got a shedload of self inflicted problems as a result of Falkirk - the planned bun-fight over funding, the internecine war in the run up to it and fall-out after.
It's a mess.
Oh and picking a fight with your own biggest donors?
Still, its all just a flesh wound - and voters will be flocking to Labour in 2015. Goodness me.
This is because most voters don't give a damn about whether Ed was egged and probably couldn't place Falkirk on a map.
We vote for parties, not presidents.
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Seriously, is this a joke? An article looking at polling on beards when the growing disquiet with Ed Miliband's Leadership is dominating the political news?! SkyNews is currently running with Lord Prescott's criticism of the Labour party's performance, but I suppose a beard could be dressed up as a squirrel during the summer silly season instead.0
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Deputy SLab leader Anas Sarwar MP is appointed representative for the Con-LD coalition. One hardly knows who to feel most sorry for.old_labour said:0 -
@Stuart_Dickson
Will the Scottish government publish its much awaited paper on pensions in a independent Scotland before the debate? I wouldnt want to be a 'yes' speaker in a debate on pensions without answers to the kind of questions that have been raised in this area.0 -
They should use it as an opportunity to remind people of Mandelson's comments that Labour initiated the project for political reasons with absolutely no idea of how much it would cost or whether it was a good idea.tim said:fitalass said:Seriously, is this a joke? An article looking at polling on beards when the growing disquiet with Ed Miliband's Leadership is dominating the political news?! SkyNews is currently running with Lord Prescott's criticism of the Labour party's performance, but I suppose a beard could be dressed up as a squirrel during the summer silly season instead.
Main political story of the day appears to be the HS2 story.
http://news.sky.com/politics
Can you think why the PB Tories might want to avoid that one?0 -
O/T
Just started reading a new book (Jonah Goldberg / Libreral Fascism) - only half way through the introduction, but it's hugely thought provoking.
Argues that the impulses of our governing political classes (written in America, but applicable here - including both 'compassionate conservatism' and progressiveism) are basically facistic in nature. Take this as an example:
Liberal facism differs from classical facism in many ways... what unites them are their emotional or instinctual impulses... the quest for community, the urge to "get beyond" politics, a faith in the perfectibility of man and the authority of experts, and an obsession with the aesthetic of youth, the cult of action, and the need for an all-powerful state to coordinate society at the national or global level. Most of all they share the belief... that with the right amount of tinkering we can realise the utopian dream of "creating a better world".
It's controversial, of course, to refer to them with such a loaded word as "facistic" but there does seem a common thread in all our parties of putting the desires of the state above the rights of the individual.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/07679171890 -
How high up on the Mori Issues index does HS2 appear.?0
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@Charles
- "SLAB: Was Brown's Scottishness a factor?"
Yes.0 -
It rather sounds as if the author has simply added the word fascism (and indeed liberal) to a shopping list of items he largely dislikes. Godwin's law in book form.Charles said:O/T
Just started reading a new book (Jonah Goldberg / Libreral Fascism) - only half way through the introduction, but it's hugely thought provoking.
Argues that the impulses of our governing political classes (written in America, but applicable here - including both 'compassionate conservatism' and progressiveism) are basically facistic in nature. Take this as an example:
Liberal facism differs from classical facism in many ways... what unites them are their emotional or instinctual impulses... the quest for community, the urge to "get beyond" politics, a faith in the perfectibility of man and the authority of experts, and an obsession with the aesthetic of youth, the cult of action, and the need for an all-powerful state to coordinate society at the national or global level. Most of all they share the belief... that with the right amount of tinkering we can realise the utopian dream of "creating a better world".
It's controversial, of course, to refer to them with such a loaded word as "facistic" but there does seem a common thread in all our parties of putting the desires of the state above the rights of the individual.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0767917189
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Yes.Stuart_Dickson said:- "SLAB: Was Brown's Scottishness a factor?"
That's my view as well. But Nick Palmer tells me (a) no and (b) even if it was it doesn't matter because Scotland is only little and (c) anyway that just means we're doing even better in England.
I can't work out if that is more complacent, patronising or insulting to Scotland.0 -
The guy's a bit more sensible than that - columnist for the LA Times.DecrepitJohnL said:
It rather sounds as if the author has simply added the word fascism (and indeed liberal) to a shopping list of items he largely dislikes. Godwin's law in book form.Charles said:O/T
Just started reading a new book (Jonah Goldberg / Libreral Fascism) - only half way through the introduction, but it's hugely thought provoking.
Argues that the impulses of our governing political classes (written in America, but applicable here - including both 'compassionate conservatism' and progressiveism) are basically facistic in nature. Take this as an example:
Liberal facism differs from classical facism in many ways... what unites them are their emotional or instinctual impulses... the quest for community, the urge to "get beyond" politics, a faith in the perfectibility of man and the authority of experts, and an obsession with the aesthetic of youth, the cult of action, and the need for an all-powerful state to coordinate society at the national or global level. Most of all they share the belief... that with the right amount of tinkering we can realise the utopian dream of "creating a better world".
It's controversial, of course, to refer to them with such a loaded word as "facistic" but there does seem a common thread in all our parties of putting the desires of the state above the rights of the individual.
http://www.amazon.com/Liberal-Fascism-American-Mussolini-Politics/dp/0767917189
There's an argument, certainly, that the Tories are quite happy to use the power of the state (whether directly or through moral suasion) to achieve what they want, while big corporates delight in regulation. I'd argue we're pretty close to corporatism at least0 -
Main story on Sky News is actually Gibraltar, closely followed by Egypt, closely followed by Dignitas, and then the Sainted People's Princess, and has been for all of the afternoon, while I've had it on in the background, while browning my white bits in the garden. The PB tribals claiming it's "Ed is crap" or "HS2" are just projecting their own fantasies.0
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17:14, Sky News are getting around to Ed is crap. One-nil to the PB righties!0
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TFS..I notice on Sky news that some idiots are taking their tiny children to the Balcombe Fracking site protest..which could turn nasty at any time....a form of child abuse in my opinion0
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Afternoon all.
On a quick read through the threads, two little snippets caught my eye:
1) In the latest You Gov, one in three current LABOUR voters think 'Ed Miliband would not be up to the job of Prime Minister', and a further 18% don't know if he would. Less than half say he would be up to the job. This must be some kind of record amongst a party's own supporters, at least for a party which is in the lead in the VI. (Special note for tim: And look at the figure for 2010 LibDem voters, 63% of whom think he's a duffer).
2) Things have come to a pretty pass when the Sunday Times describes Caroline Flint as a 'Labour heavyweight'.0 -
Even as a far back as that Labour Leadership contest, there should have been alarm bells ringing within the party at the fact that none of the contenders showed any signs of having that X Factor that registered with the media or the public.
Three years on and another whole summer news cycle wasted, and Ed Miliband is still failing to set the heather on fire as a potential future PM. The hastily announced policy of lowering the voting age smacks of a desperate holding action this week. There are still no sign of any credible or funded policies prepared and ready to be rolled out this Autumn at the Conference Season. If there were, why on earth would a Cabinet reshuffle be on the cards when earlier this year Ed Miliband had ruled one out after the media trailed that Cameron was going to carry one out over the summer? It would be ironic if Cameron doesn't do anything other than tinker around the edges at junior level while Ed Miliband is forced to carry out a full top level Shadow Cabinet reshuffle in an attempt at another relaunch.
Time is running out, if Ed Miliband hasn't connected with the public now, I doubt he will manage it before the next GE. Miliband appears to be afflicted with the same hubris Gordon Brown had when he became Labour Leader and PM, just as the Labour party were then and now when they assumed that both Brown and Miliband for all their faults would still be a better option as PM for the country than Cameron. Ed Miliband like Brown before him, is trying to make a virtue out of the fact that he refuses to lower himself by doing any media 'stunts' to raise his political profile. And equally, the public are now showing their disdain and lack of interest in a politician who cannot be bothered to put himself out there on view so they can decide if this man has the inner mettle and character to be their future PM.
And anyone who takes comfort from Thatcher's polling before the 1979 GE should remember that she was the first politician in the modern media era who let the public into her home and family life in an attempt to connect to the voters. She positively thrived in front of the camera in this way. Brown was never a natural media performer, and always came across as extremely uncomfortable, unable to think on his feet in front of the cameras. Ed Miliband is beginning to resemble Brown more and more each day in his Leadership style,
right down to the inability to make decisions without dithering first.0 -
That's my view as well. But Nick Palmer tells me (a) no and (b) even if it was it doesn't matter because Scotland is only little and (c) anyway that just means we're doing even better in England.Charles said:
Yes.Stuart_Dickson said:- "SLAB: Was Brown's Scottishness a factor?"
I can't work out if that is more complacent, patronising or insulting to Scotland.
"True" is probably the word you're looking for? The polls do (perhaps surprisingly as I'd have thought Gordon might have been a factor) suggest Labour increasing similarly in Scotland to elsewhere, but if they didn't, it would mean Labour was increasing more in England than in Scotland, which would be handy as that's where the Tory marginals are.0 -
The Lord Prescott story has been on the SkyNews loop all afternoon!TwistedFireStopper said:
17:14, Sky News are getting around to Ed is crap. One-nil to the PB righties!
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"True" is probably the word you're looking for? The polls do (perhaps surprisingly as I'd have thought Gordon might have been a factor) suggest Labour increasing similarly in Scotland to elsewhere, but if they didn't, it would mean Labour was increasing more in England than in Scotland, which would be handy as that's where the Tory marginals are.NickPalmer said:
That's my view as well. But Nick Palmer tells me (a) no and (b) even if it was it doesn't matter because Scotland is only little and (c) anyway that just means we're doing even better in England.Charles said:
Yes.Stuart_Dickson said:- "SLAB: Was Brown's Scottishness a factor?"
I can't work out if that is more complacent, patronising or insulting to Scotland.
No Nick , although they are only sub samples , they are pretty consistent over all the pollsters that Labour is down on their 2010 GE vote in Scotland to around 35 to 39% .0 -
I never said it wasn't, I was just highlighting the fact that that and HS2 were way down the agenda.fitalass said:The Lord Prescott story has been on the SkyNews loop all afternoon!
TwistedFireStopper said:17:14, Sky News are getting around to Ed is crap. One-nil to the PB righties!
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Staggers – “Labour's woes mean the bar is being set ever higher for Miliband's conference speech”
“For the third weekend running, Labour's woes remain the story. In his Sunday Mirror column, John Prescott declares that the party has "massively failed" to get its message across and reminds everyone how it was a different story when he was manning the shop.”
How time flies, is it really 3 weeks...!
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/08/labours-woes-mean-bar-being-set-ever-higher-milibands-conference-speech
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Even on pb just this week, people have been calling for the government to override any local reservations about fracking.Charles said:
The guy's a bit more sensible than that - columnist for the LA Times.DecrepitJohnL said:
It rather sounds as if the author has simply added the word fascism (and indeed liberal) to a shopping list of items he largely dislikes. Godwin's law in book form.
There's an argument, certainly, that the Tories are quite happy to use the power of the state (whether directly or through moral suasion) to achieve what they want, while big corporates delight in regulation. I'd argue we're pretty close to corporatism at least
The book just looks like partisan political abuse: all virtues belong to my party; all vices to the opposition -- even if we agreed with the author what constitutes vice and virtue. At least so far as I can tell from its table of contents, Goldberg does not discuss Republican belief in big government: George W Bush its most recent exemplar.
You are probably right about corporatism, especially with the recent tendency for regulatory and taxation arbitrage to lead to very little of either.
In the past week or two, on the recommendation of pb, I have bought Lord Levy's autobiography and Hedge Hogs; I shall not be buying this book.
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Three weeks and still no effect on the polls.SimonStClare said:Staggers – “Labour's woes mean the bar is being set ever higher for Miliband's conference speech”
“For the third weekend running, Labour's woes remain the story. In his Sunday Mirror column, John Prescott declares that the party has "massively failed" to get its message across and reminds everyone how it was a different story when he was manning the shop.”
How time flies, is it really 3 weeks...!
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/08/labours-woes-mean-bar-being-set-ever-higher-milibands-conference-speech0 -
You almost never fail in showing yourself up as a prat of the highest order.tim said:
fitalass' vicious personalised attacks on Mike
Fitalass said, "Seriously, is this a joke?".
In what way is that 'vicious' or 'personalised'?
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Fitalass
It is also irrelevant. Can't wait to get round to the general election. Then we can see how the PB Tories explain it being at least 28 years before they have the chance to win a majority.0 -
Also I don't regard the YouGov "well/badly" ratings as being in the same league as Ipsos-MORI "satisfaction" ones or the ComRes & Survation favourability ones.
We don't have, for reasons I find inexplicable, leader approval ratings in the UK
YouGov run weekly approval ratings in the US - why not in the UK?
"Well/badly" is not a good question.tim said:
Obviously, which is why fitalass' vicious personalised attacks on Mike for not running on the Ed is crap atory today were so silly.TwistedFireStopper said:
I never said it wasn't, I was just highlighting the fact that that and HS2 were way down the agenda.fitalass said:The Lord Prescott story has been on the SkyNews loop all afternoon!
TwistedFireStopper said:17:14, Sky News are getting around to Ed is crap. One-nil to the PB righties!
I think she only attacks him because he's a man.0 -
Get on to Ashcroft Mike.0
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3 points for the righteous lilywhites.
7,858 for the latest PB incarnation of 'tim'.
True dedication if a smidgeon futile.0 -
Three weeks pass quickly.DecrepitJohnL said:
Three weeks and still no effect on the polls.SimonStClare said:Staggers – “Labour's woes mean the bar is being set ever higher for Miliband's conference speech”
“For the third weekend running, Labour's woes remain the story. In his Sunday Mirror column, John Prescott declares that the party has "massively failed" to get its message across and reminds everyone how it was a different story when he was manning the shop.”
How time flies, is it really 3 weeks...!
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/08/labours-woes-mean-bar-being-set-ever-higher-milibands-conference-speech
Three weaks stay forever.
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Also I featured the ComRes leader ratings in the previous thread and the Ipsos-MORI ones on Thursday.
The former had EdM at minus-28 - one point worse than Dave on minus 27.
That's two threads in four days with leader ratings highlighted.
If people don't like it they can go elsewhere.0 -
Regardless of psephological theory about how best to assess different leaders, the YouGov and ICM ratings are politically significant. When shadow Cabinet members are making statements on the presupposition that the public don't rate Ed Miliband, they are doing so on the basis of such ratings. They are also reinforcing public perceptions in line with those ratings.0
