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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meels looks at the theory of referendum motivation

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited February 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meels looks at the theory of referendum motivation

At the height of the Second World War, Abraham Maslow unveiled an important new theory of psychology.  Synthesising physical and higher needs, he arranged the drivers of human behaviour in the form of a pyramid.  At the bottom, he placed physiological needs – the physical impulses that drive every animal.  Above that he placed safety and security needs.  Rising further up the pyramid, he pla…

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Bloody hell. Just seen the recap on that GOP debate.

    Jesus.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Cruz looks the value to me right now.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Abraham Maslow made one big omission. The need for PB Tories to never be wrong, and to always learn. That is the true apex of the pyramid of needs. :p
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Also big thanks to Speedy for his real-time coverage on the previous thread. Much appreciated.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    edited February 2016
    I see the previously undecided Margaret Beckett, Jack Straw, Neil Kinnock, David Blunkett and Hilary Benn have come out in favour of staying in the EU.

    On topic, I guess this would explain Dave's attempts to link leaving the EU with an increase in immigration. Unfortunately the electorate are quite good at working out when a politician is talking complete b*******.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited February 2016
    tlg86 said:

    I see the previously undecided Margaret Beckett, Jack Straw, Neil Kinnock, David Blunkett and Hilary Benn have come out in favour of staying in the EU.

    I'm hearing on the grapevine that the Vatican news service is about to release sensational new information regarding the Pope's theological leanings.
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Why the Labour Party is in serious trouble.... Momentum on the rampage.

    "The newly appointed national leaders of the group include people who have defended violence, described the 2011 riots as an “uprising against the police”, banned participation in Remembrance Day, stood for election against the Labour Party, committed voter fraud, or were suspended from Labour for supporting a second convicted election fraudster"

    "If your MP is voting in Parliament against the policies that Jeremy won the leadership with, it is absolutely essential that left-wingers organise to trigger reselection'"
    Momentum activist Simon Hewitt

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12156177/momentum-activists-jeremy-corbyn-labour-purge.html
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/698758163701563392

    ultra conservative? Does that make him an honorary PB Tory? :D
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Yet more reasons . I see an EU court has passed a ruling that even Europeans living in Britain who are jobless can receive £20-a-week payments for children living overseas. So much for trying to cut benefits for those living overseas.

    "European judges have forced Britain to pay back billions in tax to multinational companies, overturning the decisions of British chancellors going back more than 40 years. "

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446041/UK-forced-pay-43-BILLION-tax-giant-companies-thanks-surprise-surprise-EU-courts.html#ixzz407fXeJpe
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    Obama nominates the Republican Senate ratifies. Already Cruz has said it should be left to the next president to nominate.
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    On topic clearly the job of Leave is to turn the debate on membership into one on immigration and security.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Where the EU stands out on this list is being exclusively a higher tier concern. Membership of a supra-national body is far too abstract by itself to sit lower on the pyramid.
    This appears with tedious regularity. Perhaps you could tell us how we are going to assuage the public's concerns over immigration while we are in the EU ? No idea ? Thought not.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    It's a great theoretical analysis, Alastair, but if you believe - for example - the economy or immigration is intimately bound up with our membership of the EU then it becomes associated with that tier.

    That's why the "remain" camp pushes on "3m jobs lost" and "migrant camps in Kent" - and why parts of the Leave campaign put immigration front and centre.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    OK Cameron's having a hard time but he'll be relieved to hear Corbyn's latest nonsense.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/13/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-tory-limits-eu-migration
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    You know you're wrong?

    It "for Obama to fill provided that the GOP-controlled Senate ratifies his choice

    I'd imagine that Obama know he doesn't have a hope in hell of getting anyone approved this side of the election.

    So he will put up a candidate that allows Republicans to make fools of themselves on minorities, guns, gay marriage, etc, all on prime time TV.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016
    Charles said:

    So he will put up a candidate that allows Republicans to make fools of themselves on minorities, guns, gay marriage, etc, all on prime time TV.

    The smart move would be to put a very moderate, thoughtful, sensible, centrist candidate and dare the Republicans to vote them down. If the do they look like ideological fools, if they don't he has a moderate justice in place rather than the right-winger they will try and appoint if they win the White House, this would be doubly the case if his internal information suggests that Hillary is in trouble over say the email business.
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    Indigo said:

    Where the EU stands out on this list is being exclusively a higher tier concern. Membership of a supra-national body is far too abstract by itself to sit lower on the pyramid.
    This appears with tedious regularity. Perhaps you could tell us how we are going to assuage the public's concerns over immigration while we are in the EU ? No idea ? Thought not.

    I was under the impression that the Calais camp (and elsewhere) was filled with people who have no more to do with the EU than the man in the moon does.

    More generally, Maslow's hierarchy can be simplified thus: conservatives behave naturally, liberals in a civilised fashion. Vide my debate with David Herdson, passim.

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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Many thanks to @speedy for enduring the CBS debate so I didn't have to.

    Loved the Rubio Cruz Spanish spat, hilarious.
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    OK Cameron's having a hard time but he'll be relieved to hear Corbyn's latest nonsense.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/13/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-tory-limits-eu-migration

    I read today that if Leave wins it will be down to lukewarm Labour voters.
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    Personally, I've never had much faith in this particular type of polling. I suspect that in most people's minds, the issues aren't as neatly separated as they appear on the page. So I suspect that for a lot of people, concern about immigration and concern about the EU are very closely aligned in their minds (rightly or wrongly), but that as their concern is sharpest in the immigration sphere, that's how they choose to express it.

    Similarly, stating that the NHS is a top concern is probably a proxy, for many people, of stating that their concern is with the economy, albeit from a left wing perspective (i.e. they are opposed to austerity).

    I found that these "issues facing Britain" polls aligned particularly badly with the results of GE2015.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    OK Cameron's having a hard time but he'll be relieved to hear Corbyn's latest nonsense.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/13/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-tory-limits-eu-migration

    I am not surprised at your reaction, but it does put a stop to claims that Corbyn will be coming out for Leave.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    I rather like the hierarchy of needs.

    That said, immigration and the EU right now have an enormous overlap, in the same way income tax and Westminster would, but most people would identify the issue, not the political framework behind it, as the potential area of concern.

    If 46% are worried about immigration, then that is helpful for the Leave campaign, provided the level of concern is at least equal to other worries.

    A problem with surveys like this is that 'most important' issues aren't ranked. Suppose I tick immigration, the economy, and the EU. I might feel that we need to be in the EU for economic security, and that immigration is behind those two factors. Or I might feel we're vulnerable to large immigration due to being a member. Either interpretation would make sense.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited February 2016

    OK Cameron's having a hard time but he'll be relieved to hear Corbyn's latest nonsense.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/13/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-tory-limits-eu-migration

    I am not surprised at your reaction, but it does put a stop to claims that Corbyn will be coming out for Leave.
    He certainly voted Leave in 1975, and continued to see the EU as a capitalist ramp during the time I knew him personally (from 1977 until 1981). I think, for better or worse, he is one of our more stubborn politicians, so I doubt he'll come out for Remain. But perhaps I project my own difficulties with both sides of the question onto him...

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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Rogueywon said:

    Personally, I've never had much faith in this particular type of polling. I suspect that in most people's minds, the issues aren't as neatly separated as they appear on the page. So I suspect that for a lot of people, concern about immigration and concern about the EU are very closely aligned in their minds (rightly or wrongly), but that as their concern is sharpest in the immigration sphere, that's how they choose to express it.

    Similarly, stating that the NHS is a top concern is probably a proxy, for many people, of stating that their concern is with the economy, albeit from a left wing perspective (i.e. they are opposed to austerity).

    I found that these "issues facing Britain" polls aligned particularly badly with the results of GE2015.

    I agree. Most of these issues do not easily divide.

    Though EU is a more complex issue than immigration. Not least because the immigrants that people most object to are from outside the EU, the migrants in Calais and elsewhere.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    OK Cameron's having a hard time but he'll be relieved to hear Corbyn's latest nonsense.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/13/jeremy-corbyn-condemns-tory-limits-eu-migration

    I am not surprised at your reaction, but it does put a stop to claims that Corbyn will be coming out for Leave.
    He certainly voted Leave in 1975, and continued to see the EU as a capitalist ramp during the time I knew him personally (from 1977 until 1981). I think, for better or worse, he is one of our more stubborn politicians, so I doubt he'll come out for Remain. But perhaps I project my own difficulties with both sides of the question onto him...

    I think that Jezzas objections to the EU are very different to those of the hard right of the kippers and tory fellw travellers. Clearly the flag waving and anti-immigration rhetoric of the Leave campaign repels him. I think that will far outweigh his objections in the balance.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I see Sky is reporting Scalia death and offers no clue what its about or why it matters.

    Surely the reporters know 90% of their audience doesn't have a clue?
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    'Consumer resistance'? Stop being a patronising [MODERATED] Donald Trump!

    :bring-back-antifrank:
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
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    RobD said:

    Also big thanks to Speedy for his real-time coverage on the previous thread. Much appreciated.

    Agree: For some reason I associate him with a German metal band (circa 1974)...!
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    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    :)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: Corbyn not offering "credible alternative" to the Tories and will quit before 2020 says GMB chief Sir Paul Kenny https://t.co/vljJsC3vap
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If you missed it - Giles Coren in yesterday's Times is very amusing - holding polling seances http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4689762.ece
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: Corbyn not offering "credible alternative" to the Tories and will quit before 2020 says GMB chief Sir Paul Kenny https://t.co/vljJsC3vap

    Does he think the Shadow Chancellor would do better? We can only hope so.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @neiledwardlovat: SNP getting ready to approve fracking just after the election. About time too.
    https://t.co/LXtwvf4iVu

    @HTScotPol: SNP Government announces controversial fracking research https://t.co/al2Dylcg8S
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    Very unRootish start to his innings here. Very fortunate to still be there. Quite clever tactics by SA.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    He really is bonkers! His hatred of the Germans clearly goes back to his childhood, equating modern Germany with Nazi Germany is delusional.

    Deteriating terms of trade with the EU are a real risk of exit.



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    Indigo said:

    Charles said:

    So he will put up a candidate that allows Republicans to make fools of themselves on minorities, guns, gay marriage, etc, all on prime time TV.

    The smart move would be to put a very moderate, thoughtful, sensible, centrist candidate and dare the Republicans to vote them down. If the do they look like ideological fools, if they don't he has a moderate justice in place rather than the right-winger they will try and appoint if they win the White House, this would be doubly the case if his internal information suggests that Hillary is in trouble over say the email business.
    How will the voters know that the person is a very moderate, thoughtful, sensible, centrist candidate? Whoever it is the Republicans and all their press / social media channels will obviously say that they're a few notches to the left of Karl Marx, while left-leaning media will say the opposite whoever they pick. Obama may as well choose somebody he actually wants on the off-chance that he gets them.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Been laying Trump for GOP nominee and backing him for POTUS on Betfair.

    15% and 45% chances respectively, think the gap is too great.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,717
    edited February 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @neiledwardlovat: SNP getting ready to approve fracking just after the election. About time too.
    https://t.co/LXtwvf4iVu

    @HTScotPol: SNP Government announces controversial fracking research https://t.co/al2Dylcg8S

    What? SNP interfacing with reality?

    Do you have credible evidence for this remarkable claim?

    And while I'm on Scotland, there's a very nice little video out from Brewdog:

    http://vimeo.com/154962219

    Context for anyone living in a bucket:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9znA_dwjHw
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    If you missed it - Giles Coren in yesterday's Times is very amusing - holding polling seances http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4689762.ece

    Now which political blog could he have got that idea from, I wonder?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: Corbyn not offering "credible alternative" to the Tories and will quit before 2020 says GMB chief Sir Paul Kenny https://t.co/vljJsC3vap


    Corbynistas are only concerned that he offers a credible alternative to Blairism....
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: Paul Kenny on @ken4london: "Ken is good entertainment on the radio and in my view that is where he should stay.” https://t.co/f4x8TicbWt
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited February 2016
    Trump took some mad gambles tonight:

    "That Trump brought up this fact is incredible. That he did so in South Carolina is even moreso. South Carolina is a military state, with a hierarchical political culture that makes its conservative voters loyal to their past leaders. It is not an accident that Jeb Bush waited until South Carolina to bring his brother out to the stump, or that it is the state where Ted Cruz emphasized his opposition to drafting women in the military. "

    "As Trump has defied his skeptics, evaluations of his political acumen have grudgingly embraced the conclusion that there is a method to his madness. But on Saturday night, he took the madness to a completely new level. By the normal standards of politics, Trump swallowed enough poison to kill himself ten times over. If he survives, it will be the strongest evidence that he has forged a connection with Republican voters that resides beyond any plane visible to the rest of us."

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/most-heretical-debate-yet-trump-attacks-w.html?mid=twitter-share-di

    Also praising planned parenthood !
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    This is an original take on the referendum (which is remarkable in itself).

    A problem the pro-EU position has is that the idealistic aspect of the EU (for people that allow that it exists) really addresses a tier 5 need whereas the traditional nation-state inspires at the tier 4 level, as you say. At a purely abstract level the nation does matter more to more people (perhaps, following Maslow, because most people have unmet tier 4 needs and are suspicious of politics which smacks of tier 5).

    Of course, people on both sides try to connect back to tier 2 concerns. Who wins the referendum may depend on who does that most convincingly.

    In some ways the whole difficulty for the pro-EU side, down the years, has been that no politician has wanted to try to sell the tier 5-ish EU so they have emphasised tier 2 and nothing else. The problem with that is that the EU looks over-engineered for its purpose, unless you get quite imaginative with your tier 2 threats. Hence, the insistence that it should just be a free trade area without parliaments, presidents, constitutions and courts. It's hard to explain how the whole panoply of the EU addresses tier 2 needs so one ends up with "it needs reform but we're better off in" as the default Remain view.

    I'm not sure about this really but it does remind me of something Sean_F said last night: that Remain has already lost on the emotional level but might still win on the rational level.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I hate brewdog. Their IPA is horrible and insults you on the label.
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    Alistair said:

    I hate brewdog. Their IPA is horrible and insults you on the label.

    Brew dog ain't bad. Though I prefer a Septic Devils-Backdone or Shipyard IPA.
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    The impressive thing about Obama's supreme court picks is that they have been even more unqualified for their jobs than Obama is for his. Like him Kagan and Sotamayor solely attained their position due to their ethnicity.

    Sounds like a messy debate but Trump still on top, no change then. Audience composed of the Lindsey Graham Ladies Home Garden Club, again.

    https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/698723264244293632

    Iraq is a useful meme that will help Trump build his favorable rating nationally.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    Alistair said:

    I hate brewdog. Their IPA is horrible and insults you on the label.

    I got a tasting session with a pal from my daughter. It was a great present and a good experience. I quite liked the IPA. Their Nanny State is also one of the best alcohol free beers. Their wheat beer, however, was pretty much undrinkable.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,077
    MattW said:

    Scott_P said:

    @neiledwardlovat: SNP getting ready to approve fracking just after the election. About time too.
    https://t.co/LXtwvf4iVu

    @HTScotPol: SNP Government announces controversial fracking research https://t.co/al2Dylcg8S

    What? SNP interfacing with reality?

    Do you have credible evidence for this remarkable claim?

    And while I'm on Scotland, there's a very nice little video out from Brewdog:

    http://vimeo.com/154962219

    Context for anyone living in a bucket:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9znA_dwjHw
    He is talking bollox as usual, lost his banjo methinks.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For Vaz watchers

    Ern Malley
    twenty seven years. https://t.co/BRBZpYRFRz
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Robbie Gibb
    Of the 161 Conservative pledges made at the election: 40 are GREEN (delivered), 111 AMBER (some progress), 10 RED (little or no progress)
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    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.
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    Wanderer said:

    This is an original take on the referendum (which is remarkable in itself).

    A problem the pro-EU position has is that the idealistic aspect of the EU (for people that allow that it exists) really addresses a tier 5 need whereas the traditional nation-state inspires at the tier 4 level, as you say. At a purely abstract level the nation does matter more to more people (perhaps, following Maslow, because most people have unmet tier 4 needs and are suspicious of politics which smacks of tier 5).

    Of course, people on both sides try to connect back to tier 2 concerns. Who wins the referendum may depend on who does that most convincingly.

    In some ways the whole difficulty for the pro-EU side, down the years, has been that no politician has wanted to try to sell the tier 5-ish EU so they have emphasised tier 2 and nothing else. The problem with that is that the EU looks over-engineered for its purpose, unless you get quite imaginative with your tier 2 threats. Hence, the insistence that it should just be a free trade area without parliaments, presidents, constitutions and courts. It's hard to explain how the whole panoply of the EU addresses tier 2 needs so one ends up with "it needs reform but we're better off in" as the default Remain view.

    I'm not sure about this really but it does remind me of something Sean_F said last night: that Remain has already lost on the emotional level but might still win on the rational level.

    I so rarely agree with Sean Fear that it is worth flagging up when I do. This referendum is really a head versus heart issue - if it wasn't our MPs would've sorted it by themselves.

    I wonder if Cammo will wheel Betty out again, as he did before the Scots' referendum, to ask people to "think before you vote". Even if she agreed with him (and I expect she did, that time at least) neither of them had any business compromising the political impartiality of the monarchy in that way.

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    Wtf was that eoin Morgan. Failed just like the indy!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Robbie Gibb
    Of the 161 Conservative pledges made at the election: 40 are GREEN (delivered), 111 AMBER (some progress), 10 RED (little or no progress)

    The question voters will want to know are: what are the ten red ones?
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    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    The Indie went into rapid decline after they sacked their most talented reporter, Johann Hari...
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    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm guessing they'll get a mention on Sunday Politics.

    I'm busy watching almost year old Monumental Mysteries on my dvr. I do love Don Wildman.

    Robbie Gibb
    Of the 161 Conservative pledges made at the election: 40 are GREEN (delivered), 111 AMBER (some progress), 10 RED (little or no progress)

    The question voters will want to know are: what are the ten red ones?
  • Options
    OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_P said:

    @neiledwardlovat: SNP getting ready to approve fracking just after the election. About time too.
    https://t.co/LXtwvf4iVu

    @HTScotPol: SNP Government announces controversial fracking research https://t.co/al2Dylcg8S

    What? SNP interfacing with reality?

    Do you have credible evidence for this remarkable claim?

    And while I'm on Scotland, there's a very nice little video out from Brewdog:

    http://vimeo.com/154962219

    Context for anyone living in a bucket:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9znA_dwjHw
    He is talking bollox as usual, lost his banjo methinks.
    O'floo'er o'Coatbridge
    When we will see the Lylelettes agin
    That fought and lied against
    The Boswells etc.,
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14275558.Secret_recording_reveals_depth_of_SNP_infighting/
  • Options

    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    The Indie went into rapid decline after they sacked their most talented reporter, Johann Hari...
    Corrected for you...sacked their most talented fiction writer...
  • Options
    LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    edited February 2016
    So last night, near Azaz, the US ally Turkey is currently shelling the US ally the SDF, which is fighting the CIA supported FSA and Al Qaeda/Al Nusra. Brilliant strategy by the Nobel Peace Prize winning empty suit.

    Just artillery though as the Turks will be annihilated by the Syrian and Russian airforces if they cross the border.

    The relentless advance of the SAA continues regardless.
  • Options

    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    The Indie went into rapid decline after they sacked their most talented reporter, Johann Hari...
    Corrected for you...sacked their most talented fiction writer...
    Hari wasn’t a qualified journalist, how was he to know plagiarism and lying was bad reporting?
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited February 2016
    The story of two heavily armed "brits" (they are Iraqi) in Greece doesn't seem to be getting much coverage. They only had 20,000 rounds on them. Holidays to zante can really get out of hands these days.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I miss the As Told To Johann jokes.

    Didn't The Indy just send him on some spurious training course? It was pathetic management response.

    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    The Indie went into rapid decline after they sacked their most talented reporter, Johann Hari...
    Corrected for you...sacked their most talented fiction writer...
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
  • Options
    Timing of Scalia's death is disastrous for Republicans. Standard convention is nominees not nominated in final six months before an election but this is well outside that. If Obama puts forth well qualified moderate minority woman, Republicans will look very bad holding her up. And every Senator will have to say whether they will confirm them if Clinton wins. That means Presidency and Senate elections will be held on gay rights, abortion, environment and money in politics. Trump might even agree with Democrats!
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Who was that famous US reporter who was caught making up eye witness reports?

    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    The Indie went into rapid decline after they sacked their most talented reporter, Johann Hari...
    Corrected for you...sacked their most talented fiction writer...
    Hari wasn’t a qualified journalist, how was he to know plagiarism and lying was bad reporting?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    More on the Manifesto Tracker

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35572640
  • Options
    LondonBob said:

    The impressive thing about Obama's supreme court picks is that they have been even more unqualified for their jobs than Obama is for his. Like him Kagan and Sotamayor solely attained their position due to their ethnicity.

    Sounds like a messy debate but Trump still on top, no change then. Audience composed of the Lindsey Graham Ladies Home Garden Club, again.

    https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/698723264244293632

    Iraq is a useful meme that will help Trump build his favorable rating nationally.

    Sotomayor was an extremely well qualified candidate, and Republicans have nominated to positions on that basis. I don't know what else she could have on her record. Some people just like to marginalise achievements of all non white people.

    Kagan isn't even ethnic minority so don't know your point there.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    LondonBob said:

    The impressive thing about Obama's supreme court picks is that they have been even more unqualified for their jobs than Obama is for his. Like him Kagan and Sotamayor solely attained their position due to their ethnicity.

    Sounds like a messy debate but Trump still on top, no change then. Audience composed of the Lindsey Graham Ladies Home Garden Club, again.

    https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/698723264244293632

    Iraq is a useful meme that will help Trump build his favorable rating nationally.

    Sotomayor was an extremely well qualified candidate, and Republicans have nominated to positions on that basis. I don't know what else she could have on her record. Some people just like to marginalise achievements of all non white people.

    Kagan isn't even ethnic minority so don't know your point there.
    I think he means Jewish.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,077
    OchEye said:

    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    Scott_P said:

    @neiledwardlovat: SNP getting ready to approve fracking just after the election. About time too.
    https://t.co/LXtwvf4iVu

    @HTScotPol: SNP Government announces controversial fracking research https://t.co/al2Dylcg8S

    What? SNP interfacing with reality?

    Do you have credible evidence for this remarkable claim?

    And while I'm on Scotland, there's a very nice little video out from Brewdog:

    http://vimeo.com/154962219

    Context for anyone living in a bucket:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9znA_dwjHw
    He is talking bollox as usual, lost his banjo methinks.
    O'floo'er o'Coatbridge
    When we will see the Lylelettes agin
    That fought and lied against
    The Boswells etc.,
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14275558.Secret_recording_reveals_depth_of_SNP_infighting/
    Two points : It is in a loony unionist rag and it is North Lanarkshire where lots of banjo players reside never mind Scott.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    The impressive thing about Obama's supreme court picks is that they have been even more unqualified for their jobs than Obama is for his. Like him Kagan and Sotamayor solely attained their position due to their ethnicity.

    Sounds like a messy debate but Trump still on top, no change then. Audience composed of the Lindsey Graham Ladies Home Garden Club, again.

    https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/698723264244293632

    Iraq is a useful meme that will help Trump build his favorable rating nationally.

    Sotomayor was an extremely well qualified candidate, and Republicans have nominated to positions on that basis. I don't know what else she could have on her record. Some people just like to marginalise achievements of all non white people.

    Kagan isn't even ethnic minority so don't know your point there.
    I think he means Jewish.
    Ugh.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
  • Options
    Sotomayor was born in The Bronx, New York City, to Puerto Rican-born parents. Her father died when she was nine, and she was subsequently raised by her mother. Sotomayor graduated summa cum laude fromPrinceton University in 1976 and received herJ.D. from Yale Law School in 1979, where she was an editor at the Yale Law Journal. She was an advocate for the hiring of Latino faculty at both schools. She worked as anassistant district attorney in New York for four and a half years before entering private practice in 1984. She played an active role on the boards of directors for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, the State of New York Mortgage Agency, and the New York City Campaign Finance Board.

    Sotomayor was nominated to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York by President George H. W. Bush in 1991; confirmation followed in 1992. In 1997, she was nominated by President Bill Clinton to theU.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Her nomination was slowed by the Republicanmajority in the United States Senate, but she was eventually confirmed in 1998. On the Second Circuit, Sotomayor heard appeals in more than 3,000 cases and wrote about 380 opinions. Sotomayor has taught at the New York University School of Law and Columbia Law School.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,077
    LondonBob said:

    So last night, near Azaz, the US ally Turkey is currently shelling the US ally the SDF, which is fighting the CIA supported FSA and Al Qaeda/Al Nusra. Brilliant strategy by the Nobel Peace Prize winning empty suit.

    Just artillery though as the Turks will be annihilated by the Syrian and Russian airforces if they cross the border.

    The relentless advance of the SAA continues regardless.

    Turkey is taking a big chance. Their desperation to kill all the Kurds could see them get a real bashing as Putin is just waiting to give them a real bloody nose.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    edited February 2016

    Sotomayor was born in The Bronx, New York City, to Puerto Rican-born parents. Her father died when she was nine, and she was subsequently raised by her mother. Sotomayor graduated summa cum laude fromPrinceton University in 1976 and received herJ.D. from Yale Law School in 1979, where she was an editor at the Yale Law Journal. She was an advocate for the hiring of Latino faculty at both schools. She worked as anassistant district attorney in New York for four and a half years before entering private practice in 1984. She played an active role on the boards of directors for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund, the State of New York Mortgage Agency, and the New York City Campaign Finance Board.

    Sotomayor was nominated to the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York by President George H. W. Bush in 1991; confirmation followed in 1992. In 1997, she was nominated by President Bill Clinton to theU.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit. Her nomination was slowed by the Republicanmajority in the United States Senate, but she was eventually confirmed in 1998. On the Second Circuit, Sotomayor heard appeals in more than 3,000 cases and wrote about 380 opinions. Sotomayor has taught at the New York University School of Law and Columbia Law School.

    <<channeling london bob>>
    Yeah, but she's a Jewish woman, so she's only there because of tokenism
    <</channeling london bob>>
  • Options
    Time taken to confirm/reject justices:

    Kagan: 3 months
    Sotomayor: 2 months
    Alito: 2 months
    Meirs: withdrawn same month
    Roberts: 2 months (well, two attempts at one month each)
    Breyer: 2 months
    Ginsburg: 2 months
    Thomas: 3 months
    Souter: 3 months
    Kennedy: 3 months
    Bork: 3 months (rejected 1987)
    Scalia: 3 months
    Rehnquist: 3 months
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,063

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
    I wonder who made the first daft comment! Could be either.
  • Options
    NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    edited February 2016
    Think this situation also guarantees Sanders supporters will get on Hillary train after primary.
  • Options
    Alistair said:

    I hate brewdog. Their IPA is horrible and insults you on the label.

    Marketing + 'edgy' + punk = wankerism in its purest form
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Morning all :)

    The GOP debate sounds about as bad as it could be for the GOP. Trump will likely win SC but not perhaps as convincingly as the polls suggest but the spectacle of an irritable group of candidates tearing lumps out of each other won't help the GOP overall in what has been a miserable 24 hours for them.

    Unhelpful comments from Germany but all part of the referendum campaigning talk so nothing of substance. As would have happened had Scotland voted YES, once the vote happens, harmony replaces acrimony and conciliation replaces confrontation. If we vote to LEAVE, everyone will make sure it's as smooth and painless a process as possible because it's in everyone's interests to do so.

    Kerry's line is what you would expect from the White House - there's no doubt (and never has been) the US wants the UK in the EU.

    Then of course you have the nuanced version of Project Fear where everything is about "security". In a frightening world, frightened people cling on to anything and regular updates to keep them frightened always helps. To suggest LEAVE hasn't presented a coherent vision of life outside the EU would be valid, to somehow suggest being outside the EU compromises our security is absurd. We might be leaving the EU, we're not leaving NATO for all that some have reasonable doubts about the alliance's viability.

    Fortunately we have the comfort of being in another Cold War (apparently) and it's back to the certainties of 1945-89 when the Russian super-soldier was just a Polaris missile away from destroying everything British and creating an Orwellian dystopia.

    Yep, the more things change, the more we are told they stay the same.
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    The German definitely did not "threaten a trade war" if you actually read the article. More Daily Wail exaggeration and scaremongering. However, still inclined to vote OUT.

  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    Time taken to confirm/reject justices:

    Kagan: 3 months
    Sotomayor: 2 months
    Alito: 2 months
    Meirs: withdrawn same month
    Roberts: 2 months (well, two attempts at one month each)
    Breyer: 2 months
    Ginsburg: 2 months
    Thomas: 3 months
    Souter: 3 months
    Kennedy: 3 months
    Bork: 3 months (rejected 1987)
    Scalia: 3 months
    Rehnquist: 3 months

    Hard to see Obama not managing to get a confirmation through, provided he nominates someone pretty centrist. The sight of the Republicans stonewalling a moderate for the next 11 months would be an absolute gift for whoever the Democratic nominee is.
  • Options
    This rather poor article by Alastair continues a long history of Europhile propaganda which has little basis in realty. They have spent years telling us that the EU doesn't affect us directly and is a tier 4 issue whilst at the same time making sure the EU has directly impacted on almost every aspect of our lives including crucially financially.

    We now pay more for our food because of the EU. We pay more for our heating bills because of the EU. We pay more for our insurance because of the EU. Our energy security is in danger because of the EU.

    Of course the Europhiles have been hugely successful at making sure the EU is not blamed for all of this but in the end the EU costs us vast amounts of money and adversely affects our lives every single day.
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    OK. We understand. You've told us seventy nine times. You somehow think "immigration" has nothing to do with "the EU" in the minds of voters, despite all evidence to the contrary. Now shut the fuck up and tell us something that doesn't insult the intelligence of your readers. Thanks.

    Intelligence? Ha
    Ever heard of the commonwealth?
    Pakistan India?
    Your favourite country, China... where does it stand on our immigrant stakes. I suppose you will be happy with Canadian immigrants, but tell us how many Canadian Citizens are immigrants, tell us what proportion of Canadian population is immigrant.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm really puzzled why an otherwise sensible poster like yourself uses expressions like Daily Heil and jackboots. And not in an occasional amusing way.

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:
    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,968

    Wanderer said:

    This is an original take on the referendum (which is remarkable in itself).

    A problem the pro-EU position has is that the idealistic aspect of the EU (for people that allow that it exists) really addresses a tier 5 need whereas the traditional nation-state inspires at the tier 4 level, as you say. At a purely abstract level the nation does matter more to more people (perhaps, following Maslow, because most people have unmet tier 4 needs and are suspicious of politics which smacks of tier 5).

    Of course, people on both sides try to connect back to tier 2 concerns. Who wins the referendum may depend on who does that most convincingly.

    In some ways the whole difficulty for the pro-EU side, down the years, has been that no politician has wanted to try to sell the tier 5-ish EU so they have emphasised tier 2 and nothing else. The problem with that is that the EU looks over-engineered for its purpose, unless you get quite imaginative with your tier 2 threats. Hence, the insistence that it should just be a free trade area without parliaments, presidents, constitutions and courts. It's hard to explain how the whole panoply of the EU addresses tier 2 needs so one ends up with "it needs reform but we're better off in" as the default Remain view.

    I'm not sure about this really but it does remind me of something Sean_F said last night: that Remain has already lost on the emotional level but might still win on the rational level.

    I so rarely agree with Sean Fear that it is worth flagging up when I do. This referendum is really a head versus heart issue - if it wasn't our MPs would've sorted it by themselves.

    I wonder if Cammo will wheel Betty out again, as he did before the Scots' referendum, to ask people to "think before you vote". Even if she agreed with him (and I expect she did, that time at least) neither of them had any business compromising the political impartiality of the monarchy in that way.

    Rereading Hubris by Ian Kershaw, he makes the very good point that critics of the Nazis in the last years of Weimar, who dismissed the Nazis' programme as irrational, were correct but also irrelevant. Hitler grasped that many political campaigns are won by appealing to emotions, not reason.
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    Likely nomination is Sri Srinivasan. Woud be first Indian American Justice to Supreme Court and previously confirmed 99-0 to second most important court in US, on account of being moderate and extremely qualified.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Think this situation also guarantees Sanders supporters will get on Hillary train after primary.

    Cuts both ways, this will fire up Republican voters who might otherwise have been put off by Trump.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,968

    I'm really puzzled why an otherwise sensible poster like yourself uses expressions like Daily Heil and jackboots. And not in an occasional amusing way.

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:
    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
    The Daily Mail reflects the views of the average right of centre, middle aged, middle income voter. Such people aren't fascists. If the Conservatives don't have the Mail onside, that's a problem for the Conservatives.
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Another good reason to get out. This is what they really think.

    "A diplomatic row erupted between Britain and Germany last night after a senior ally of Angela Merkel was accused of threatening a trade war if Britain quits the EU.

    Prominent German MP Gunther Krichbaum said the UK ‘cannot survive’ on its own and raised the spectre of crippling trade tariffs on British exports should we vote to leave the union.
    Mr Krichbaum’s warning came in a clash with senior Tory MP Sir Bill Cash, who accused the German politician of ‘threatening’ Britain.

    Sir Bill said Britain had fought Germany in two world wars to keep its freedoms and was not going to surrender them to a German-run Brussels now."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3446048/Fury-Angela-Merkel-s-attack-dog-threatens-UK-trade-war-Brexit-claims-t-survive-without-us.html#ixzz407Z609sZ

    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    Says the bloke who is called 'Square Root'. All my plants have round roots.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392

    FFS, I turned on sky sports & they are having a circle jerk over the independent. I don't remember this when the far more popular notw, one which revealed a lot more scumbags (remember they exposed spot fixing in cricket). If the content of the indy was so good they would still be in business, but the reality is there is a limited market for daily eco bollocks & pretty dull sports coverage.

    I was a daily reader of the Indy for 10-15 years but one day there was just 1 oily seagull too many and even the still very good columnists could not justify 3-4 pages of global warming.

    Weirdly, my grass and local road are once again crisply white. I seem to recall reading an article to the effect that my kids would not know what snow was....
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,913
    Wondering if Clinton could put Sanders on the ticket.
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    Mr. L, nonsense, we've always been at war with Eastasia.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Holy WTF http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/13/peter-tatchell-snubbed-students-free-speech-veteran-gay-rights-activist
    The emails from the officer of the National Union of Students were unequivocal. Fran Cowling, the union’s lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) representative, said that she would not share a stage with a man whom she regarded as having been racist and “transphobic”.

    That the man in question is Peter Tatchell – one of the country’s best-known gay rights campaigners, who next year celebrates his 50th year as an activist – is perhaps a mark of how fractured the debate on free speech and sexual politics has become.
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    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    Sean_F said:

    I'm really puzzled why an otherwise sensible poster like yourself uses expressions like Daily Heil and jackboots. And not in an occasional amusing way.

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:
    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
    The Daily Mail reflects the views of the average right of centre, middle aged, middle income voter. Such people aren't fascists. If the Conservatives don't have the Mail onside, that's a problem for the Conservatives.
    You can infer a lot about people by the company they keep, however. The content of the Mail is abhorrent.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh get over yourself.

    You've just declared you're a superior being.

    Sean_F said:

    I'm really puzzled why an otherwise sensible poster like yourself uses expressions like Daily Heil and jackboots. And not in an occasional amusing way.

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:

    Moses_ said:
    Ach Zo,,.. For you zee war is over... Ja !

    1) Cash is bonkers.. and 2) never believe any reporting by the Daily Jackboot.
    Ahh yes.... Typical response. Call someone mad and abuse the messenger, Mmmm... Unfortunately for you those were the actual quotes made ( forget the story part it's the comments) Call it the Daily Jackboot if you like but the comments cannot be so easily dismissed or ignored except by someone of course who doesn't like the message.

    I doubt they would even consider such a trade war it would to all intents be impossible anyway if not illegal. It's just part of the whole charade of the EU approach to our referendum and orchestrated to put fear into us for daring to want to make our own mind up. Such comments would not have been made without Merkels knowledge of course. That's Merkel the real leader of Europe that we have to get our PM to ask permission from whenever we actually want to do anything if you remember.
    The comments can be ignored because the article , like any from the Daily Jackboot are designed to get the white folks angry.. Their articles are littered with words like, fury, anger and outrage, whilst never identifying who was angry , furious or outraged , and then leave it to the loony comments..

    Straight bananas eh!
    I was actually referring to the "comments" made by Mekels sidekick not the "comments" on the bottom of the Mails page made by people with opinions other than your own.
    I am sure the Daily Heil knows how to take and report comments out of context. In any event when you have a loon like Bill Cash giving you grief, its no surprise that someone might get a bit pissed off. As for the Jackboot comments, the point remains valid.
    The Daily Mail reflects the views of the average right of centre, middle aged, middle income voter. Such people aren't fascists. If the Conservatives don't have the Mail onside, that's a problem for the Conservatives.
    You can infer a lot about people by the company they keep, however. The content of the Mail is abhorrent.
This discussion has been closed.