politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Lord Ashcroft polling is back with a 20k sample EURef surve
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Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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What or who is to stop him continuing to make bad decisions?blackburn63 said:
We discussed this last week, I've no idea who is advising Osborne but this is a disaster for SMEs and HMRC. He can't continue making bad decisions.watford30 said:
The Tories could be in for a nasty surprise. 'Quarterly Returns' are winding a lot of people up.TCPoliticalBetting said:
This is a festering sore. Being brought up by small business people in unrelated interviews. It could help Corbyn at next year's elections, when there is a voter boycott.watford30 said:
The argument from supporters of Osborne is that these voters have nowhere else to go, and can simply 'suck it up'. Reality could be somewhat different.rottenborough said:
I predict that the quarterly tax returns for small business and landlords will become a monumental albatross around the Tories neck unless they act quickly to kill this one.Indigo said:
That has some possibilities. Part of the problem appears to be that Osborne has his eye on the top job and so its distracting him from being sensible about the economy and letting HMRC slip in corporatist crap like the 4 tax returns per year for small businesses. Cameron meanwhile appears to be focussing on his legacy, rather than the security and future of his country, so his is being as uncontroversial as possible about the EU, and letting the security services slip in totalitarian crap like banning encryption. Both appear to be letting short term personal interest visibly obscure long term national interests.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Consider.NickPalmer said:
I think that's right. Moreover, I think a close "remain" result wouldn't necessarily doom UKIP either. I thought (and it wasn't an unusual view) that the SNP would slump if they didn't get the referendum Yes but, um, I wasn't quite right about that...JosiasJessop said:
1. We get a Remain vote.
2. Cameron steps down within a year and the members select a Eurosceptic Leader who was in the Leave camp.
3. UKIP then loses members, activists and money to the Conservatives.
4. Conservative policy is now firmly eurosceptic but accepts there cannot be a referendum until something fundamental changes in the EC.
5. The EC then decide that they have to have Treaty changes....
It's pretty obvious from the favourable treatment afforded to tax avoiding corporations, and his property spiv chums where the Chancellor's loyalties lie, and it's not the traditional Tory voter. If the party is stupid enough to elect him leader, they deserve to lose big in 2020.0 -
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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I'd heard the headline of quarterly tax returns. It seems utterly stupid, creating more hassle and paperwork for both businesses and the taxman for no discernible advantage.
Mr. 63, why do you say that?0 -
Re declarations of having man 'flu: is there a medical name for people who imagine that they are hypochondriacs?0
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You really are an odious little creep, slither offrichardDodd said:MG..You made me laugh so much that I pressed the wrong key...but everyone knew which prat I was referring to..you..
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Now or anytime?Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Start at home:
Four Lions
Ill Manors
Attack the Block
Starred Up
Sunset Song
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Other than prejudice against Osborne, do you have any particular reason to say it's a 'disaster' and a 'bad decision'?blackburn63 said:We discussed this last week, I've no idea who is advising Osborne but this is a disaster for SMEs and HMRC. He can't continue making bad decisions.
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Food prices to fall once we're out the CAP ?TGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU.
I think fully leaving will take longer than 3 years, there will be alot of untangling to do. And these things make snails look like Frankel.0 -
Oh, come on, Miss P., Scotland leaving would probably have a big impact on the Scots but the vast majority of the population in England wouldn't even notice they had gone.Plato_Says said:I'd say SIndy was much bigger culturally for us - breaking up the UK would've been massive.
I view the EU one as a change of circs - a biggy, but not much change for day to day life or identity.Morris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.0 -
The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.blackburn63 said:
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.0 -
Enjoyed "Bridge of Spies". Tom Hanks is his usual excellent self.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Cate Blanchett is getting plenty of plaudits for Carol, and it looks excellent in its period detail, but I found it glacially slow....
But today is only about one film!0 -
If you have not seen it, I think Inside Out is a film a lot of people might miss.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Despite being a Pixar kids film, it really is filled with feels and an absolutely wonderful movie.0 -
But the outcome is hypothetical as is the break up of the UK.TGOHF said:
The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.blackburn63 said:
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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Oddly enough, all those Kippers who said it would never happen under Cameron because he couldn't be trusted have forgotten to apologise. I can't think why.TGOHF said:The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.
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Disaster is probably too strong a word but I would suggest that anything that loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit is de facto a bad decision.Richard_Nabavi said:
Other than prejudice against Osborne, do you have any particular reason to say it's a 'disaster' and a 'bad decision'?blackburn63 said:We discussed this last week, I've no idea who is advising Osborne but this is a disaster for SMEs and HMRC. He can't continue making bad decisions.
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lowlifes are out of their cardboard boxes early today, for sure I would not give to RSPCA and help fund the likes of you.watford30 said:
'Save Trumps Toupee' must be struggling without your £3 a year contribution.malcolmg said:
It does put people off though, I cancelled all my regular payments to charities due to the excess and fact that more money was going into either politics or their pockets rather than help their causeTOPPING said:
Just because it's a charity doesn't mean they can't operate on commercial terms. If a charity employee is bringing in £1m/year I have no problem with their salary being relatively high.Sean_F said:Plato_Says said:I was the trustee of a small charity that provided home security for OAP burglary victims - new locks etc. We gained inkind support from local contractors and DIY stores for manpower and supplies.
We spent ZERO on salaries, worked out of the back office of a local business and used their office consumables/computers. Anyone helping us could be certain we weren't farting about or frittering away their donations. I'm pretty cynical about the Big Charidees, but I'm
at the scale of the carpetbagging the Times has unearthed.JosiasJessop said:
There are probably several causes of this problem. One might be that it is very hard to measure success of a charity: it should really be how many of the 'cause' (people, animals etc) that are helped; but that can be very hard to measure. Instead, it probably becomes how much money they raise. It thus becomes a chase after money.Plato_Says said:Holy Moly! Over a thousand charity bosses are paid 100k or more. Over. A. Thousand - I'm gobsmacked.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4643202.ece
A guy I know set up a small and very focussed charity, and aimed for 95% of all money raised to go to the cause. He succeeded through hard graft: things like getting local firms to donate stamps that he could use to mail items, and donating his time for free.
I'm surprised that 1,000 employees merit £100,000 + p.a.
Look at the chuggers. They charge quite a high amount to do their job but bring in a lot of money. People may despise them but they are effective and are a critical fund-raising channel for charities.0 -
The outcome of all future events is hypothetical.blackburn63 said:
But the outcome is hypothetical as is the break up of the UK.TGOHF said:
The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.blackburn63 said:
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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I am not sure that this has been reported from today's Daily Mail
'Over the past month, the Tories' lead over Labour has been cut to only four points – down from 11 in November. Jeremy Corbyn's Labour Party is up by four points, to 33 per cent, despite major internal rows over the decision to go to war in Syria.
The Tories, who have come under attack as 'gutless' for delaying a decision on a third runway at Heathrow, are down three points on 37 per cent. Ukip are unchanged on 11 per cent.'
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@hurstllama
Only himself. Decisions like this strengthen the view that politicians have no idea how ordinary people live their lives. I know dozens of small businesses, I've had a conversation with 6 or 7 in the last week about Osborne's plans, every one is aghast.
Unfortunately the labour lot are equally as ignorant.
@richardnavabi
I have no prejudice against Osborne.
I have no evidence because the scheme has yet to be introduced, but he is asking both SMEs and HMRC to increase their workload for reasons only he can explain.
Now I've told you it will be a bad idea because it increases workload but not revenue, why do you think it a good idea?
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Saw 4 Lions, thought it was okay with a few good laughs - not seen the others - will give them a go. Thnxxx.TOPPING said:
Now or anytime?Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Start at home:
Four Lions
Ill Manors
Attack the Block
Starred Up
Sunset Song0 -
Well I neverTGOHF said:
The outcome of all future events is hypothetical.blackburn63 said:
But the outcome is hypothetical as is the break up of the UK.TGOHF said:
The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.blackburn63 said:
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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Not day to day, I haven't been to Scotland more than twice in my entire life and less than 3 days in total.
But GB/Union Jack et al matters to me quite a lot. Our domestic rivalries are amusing - but to have a border on UK mainland - it just feels all wrong.HurstLlama said:
Oh, come on, Miss P., Scotland leaving would probably have a big impact on the Scots but the vast majority of the population in England wouldn't even notice they had gone.Plato_Says said:I'd say SIndy was much bigger culturally for us - breaking up the UK would've been massive.
I view the EU one as a change of circs - a biggy, but not much change for day to day life or identity.Morris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.0 -
I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oddly enough, all those Kippers who said it would never happen under Cameron because he couldn't be trusted have forgotten to apologise. I can't think why.TGOHF said:The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.
And perhaps all those tories that believed Cameron when he said he'd get immigration down to tens of thousands will apologise too.
All in the name of futile game playing you understand.0 -
Four Lions: "THOUGHT IT WAS OKAY WITH A FEW GOOD LAUGHS"!!!!!!!!??????????Plato_Says said:Saw 4 Lions, thought it was okay with a few good laughs - not seen the others - will give them a go. Thnxxx.
TOPPING said:
Now or anytime?Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Start at home:
Four Lions
Ill Manors
Attack the Block
Starred Up
Sunset Song
dear god. It is a masterpiece.0 -
It's far too early to say that it loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit, since the details are extremely sketchy and the implementation is five years away. I seem to recall exactly the same fuss about RTI on payrolls in 2011. It was all going to be a mega disaster and cause massive headaches for SMEs. In the event, it all went through smoothly and no-one ever mentions it now.HurstLlama said:Disaster is probably too strong a word but I would suggest that anything that loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit is de facto a bad decision.
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Did someone piss in your egg nog this morning ? Grinchy.blackburn63 said:
Well I neverTGOHF said:
The outcome of all future events is hypothetical.blackburn63 said:
But the outcome is hypothetical as is the break up of the UK.TGOHF said:
The EU referendum isn't hypothetical - it's happening.blackburn63 said:
Well it's a hypothetical situation so no point discussingTGOHF said:
Really - within 3 years nobody would even notice the difference once we had left the EU. Break up of the Uk far more significant.blackburn63 said:
She's absolutely right, it's far more important than the Scotland voteMorris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's far too early to say that it loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit, since the details are extremely sketchy and the implementation is five years away. I seem to recall exactly the same fuss about RTI on payrolls in 2011. It was all going to be a mega disaster and cause massive headaches for SMEs. In the event, it all went through smoothly and no-one ever mentions it now.HurstLlama said:Disaster is probably too strong a word but I would suggest that anything that loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit is de facto a bad decision.
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I saw Empire Strikes Back as a teenager and loved it/developed a massive crush on Harrison Ford. Saw the next one and was bored. Never bothered with the rest and watched Star Wars about 15yrs ago just to tick the box. Just didn't get engaged enough.
Feel the same about Trekkie movies. Just no. I only just noticed that the actor who played Young Spock is the same one who played the really bad baddie in Heroes and nerd in Margin Call. Very distinctive eyebrow...MarqueeMark said:
Enjoyed "Bridge of Spies". Tom Hanks is his usual excellent self.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Cate Blanchett is getting plenty of plaudits for Carol, and it looks excellent in its period detail, but I found it glacially slow....
But today is only about one film!0 -
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.0 -
Thanx - I'll add it to Toy Story 3 and Puss In Boots.Dair said:
If you have not seen it, I think Inside Out is a film a lot of people might miss.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Despite being a Pixar kids film, it really is filled with feels and an absolutely wonderful movie.0 -
I would not be so sure. Many of the people back at work are not in what most people would view as full time employment. As far as the DWP is concerned anyone working at least 16 hours per week has a full time job , but most people working 16 - 30 hours per week are likely to see themselves as in part time employment. If the unemployment data took account of Full time Equivalent calculations the figures would be significantly higher than what is being shown.DavidL said:George show know that politicians seeking to show they are up with the zeitgeist never ends well (Artic Monkeys anyone) but he was probably a little buoyant after another truly stunning set of employment figures yesterday. This article has a good summary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12053072/UK-unemployment-wages-pay-slowdown-jobs-employment.html
All of the unemployment caused by Brown' incompetence has now been eliminated and youth unemployment is at its lowest for 9 years. Most of the EZ countries must weep as their more ambitious and better qualified seek better opportunities here.
I simply do not believe that such continued level of growth in employment is consistent with a mere 2.5% growth this year. I think it is very likely that these figures will be increased to over 3% eventually. It just might take a few years and, by then, not be of interest to anyone but economic historians.0 -
Well done you.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.
Has Cameron ever broken a promise?
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Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
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Ok then, can you tell me what benefit filing Quarterly Returns will offer my business?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
Other than paying additional accounting fees, I'm trying hard to think of any.0 -
Never far away from "the wrong kind of jobs"
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He's never broken a promise to give up politics if he didn't get elected an MP.....blackburn63 said:
Well done you.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.
Has Cameron ever broken a promise?0 -
@runnymede claimed we'd not get an EU ref earlier this week.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.0 -
Well, really, Mr. Nabavi! Completing a set of forms four times a year will not cost any more than doing it once? Your accountant must be a damn generous bloke if he will quadruple his workload for the same fee.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's far too early to say that it loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit, since the details are extremely sketchy and the implementation is five years away. I seem to recall exactly the same fuss about RTI on payrolls in 2011. It was all going to be a mega disaster and cause massive headaches for SMEs. In the event, it all went through smoothly and no-one ever mentions it now.HurstLlama said:Disaster is probably too strong a word but I would suggest that anything that loads costs onto SMEs for no discernible benefit is de facto a bad decision.
On your second point, it is probably unwise to regard the fact that people adjust and adapt to new demands and stop complaining about them with those demands being a good idea. The downside consequences are legislation are often, in my experience, hidden.0 -
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
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And Madagascar 3!Plato_Says said:Thanx - I'll add it to Toy Story 3 and Puss In Boots.
Dair said:
If you have not seen it, I think Inside Out is a film a lot of people might miss.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Despite being a Pixar kids film, it really is filled with feels and an absolutely wonderful movie.
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Oh - and the Lego Movie.
Everything is awesome....0 -
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.watford30 said:Ok then, can you tell me what benefit filing Quarterly Returns will offer my business?
Other than paying additional accounting fees, I'm trying hard to think of any.
It's also far from clear that this will be a big increased burden, or indeed a burden at all. Modernising HMRC's systems and using a lot more on-line information exchange seems a pretty good idea to me.0 -
Ooooh - The Hateful Eight has just arrived (and SPECTRE....)0
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I've missed all those. Will try it. I was bored stiff/schmaltzed out by Finding Nemo and tuned out.MarqueeMark said:
And Madagascar 3!Plato_Says said:Thanx - I'll add it to Toy Story 3 and Puss In Boots.
Dair said:
If you have not seen it, I think Inside Out is a film a lot of people might miss.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Despite being a Pixar kids film, it really is filled with feels and an absolutely wonderful movie.0 -
It's fairly obvious that the only business people Osborne has contact with, are the large ones that enjoy winning juicy concessions from him and HMRC. The rest of us can go swing.blackburn63 said:@hurstllama
Only himself. Decisions like this strengthen the view that politicians have no idea how ordinary people live their lives. I know dozens of small businesses, I've had a conversation with 6 or 7 in the last week about Osborne's plans, every one is aghast.
Unfortunately the labour lot are equally as ignorant.
@richardnavabi
I have no prejudice against Osborne.
I have no evidence because the scheme has yet to be introduced, but he is asking both SMEs and HMRC to increase their workload for reasons only he can explain.
Now I've told you it will be a bad idea because it increases workload but not revenue, why do you think it a good idea?
Osborne is no better than the loathsome Brown.0 -
Who promised that?MarqueeMark said:
He's never broken a promise to give up politics if he didn't get elected an MP.....blackburn63 said:
Well done you.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.
Has Cameron ever broken a promise?
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Mr. 63, indeed. I'm wondering if it'll apply to all businesses (including writers). It just sounds like quadrupling the tediousness for zero benefit.0
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I've answered that in my response to watford30.blackburn63 said:
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
I don't know why you are so touchy. Asking for someone to justify an unsubstantiated claim is not 'getting cross and insulting'.0 -
Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?Richard_Nabavi said:
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.watford30 said:Ok then, can you tell me what benefit filing Quarterly Returns will offer my business?
Other than paying additional accounting fees, I'm trying hard to think of any.
It's also far from clear that this will be a big increased burden, or indeed a burden at all. Modernising HMRC's systems and using a lot more on-line information exchange seems a pretty good idea to me.
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@runnymede claimed we'd not get an EU ref earlier this week.
Er - no I didn't. I said if the polls swung towards leave the FO and the EU would try to have the referendum postponed. Not quite the same thing.0 -
Laughable. It will squeeze smaller businesses.Richard_Nabavi said:
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.watford30 said:Ok then, can you tell me what benefit filing Quarterly Returns will offer my business?
Other than paying additional accounting fees, I'm trying hard to think of any.
It's also far from clear that this will be a big increased burden, or indeed a burden at all. Modernising HMRC's systems and using a lot more on-line information exchange seems a pretty good idea to me.
If HMRC were really worried about tax take and avoidance, they'd apply the cattle prod to their chums at Amazon and Vodafone. But they won't.
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No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.Richard_Nabavi said:
I've answered that in my response to watford30.blackburn63 said:
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
I don't know why you are so touchy. Asking for someone to justify an unsubstantiated claim is not 'getting cross and insulting'.
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The details are sketchy and it's years away. As someone who runs a small business in the last few years I've had to start fortnightly submissions to HMRC ... For the real time reporting of payroll. That is pressing one button on my Sage Payroll software and then clicking through to confirm. No work at all.blackburn63 said:
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
I am more bothered by HOW it is implemented than its frequency. That detail is missing.0 -
Do we have a regional breakdown:? Is there a marked difference of opinion between Scotland/England/Wales/NIreland?
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Meh, we produce quarterly tax estimates anyway so no odds to us :P0
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Ditto - I don't get the fuss at all.Pulpstar said:
Meh, we produce quarterly tax estimates anyway so no odds to us :P
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Plenty of experience with small businesses (although all VAT registered).TCPoliticalBetting said:Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?
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In which case you'll be able to explain why this is good news for themRichard_Nabavi said:
Plenty of experience with small businesses (although all VAT registered).TCPoliticalBetting said:Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?
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Yes we would miss the whinging. Peace at last.HurstLlama said:
Oh, come on, Miss P., Scotland leaving would probably have a big impact on the Scots but the vast majority of the population in England wouldn't even notice they had gone.Plato_Says said:I'd say SIndy was much bigger culturally for us - breaking up the UK would've been massive.
I view the EU one as a change of circs - a biggy, but not much change for day to day life or identity.Morris_Dancer said:Just an aside, heard Kuenssberg saying the referendum vote would be the most significant taken in Britain for decades.
Did make me wonder if she'd forgotten about Scotland or if she genuinely thought that the UK leaving the EU would be a bigger deal than Scotland leaving the UK.
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I answered quite clearly. Perhaps you missed it, so here was the answer:blackburn63 said:No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.
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Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.
The research also found that the public prefers how David Cameron and Labour shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn are handling the Syria crisis.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/support-for-jeremy-corbyn-slumps-after-he-opposes-airstrikes-a3139486.html0 -
2018 is years away. But it is not that far away. And nice and close to 2020 GE to be a headache for Osborne.Philip_Thompson said:
The details are sketchy and it's years away. As someone who runs a small business in the last few years I've had to start fortnightly submissions to HMRC ... For the real time reporting of payroll. That is pressing one button on my Sage Payroll software and then clicking through to confirm. No work at all.blackburn63 said:
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
I am more bothered by HOW it is implemented than its frequency. That detail is missing.0 -
Looks like people are making their mind up about Corbo - the DK faction plummeting.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Awful for Corbyn there.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Deary me, so there are, arguably, benefits to HMRC which ignores the additional time and cost incurred to SMEs. In other words you're asking SMEs to increase their burden, millions of them.Richard_Nabavi said:
I answered quite clearly. Perhaps you missed it, so here was the answer:blackburn63 said:No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.
Let's see if this pans out as a vote winner for Osborne shall we.
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Seen The Force Awakens three times. Just gets better with every viewing.0
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Tied in with all his other tinkering, Osborne's in for a rough ride, and deservedly so. Truly the Heir to Brown.rottenborough said:
2018 is years away. But it is not that far away. And nice and close to 2020 GE to be a headache for Osborne.Philip_Thompson said:
The details are sketchy and it's years away. As someone who runs a small business in the last few years I've had to start fortnightly submissions to HMRC ... For the real time reporting of payroll. That is pressing one button on my Sage Payroll software and then clicking through to confirm. No work at all.blackburn63 said:
Getting cross and insulting again Mr Nabavi?Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Care to explain your reasoning, if that's not too strong a word?blackburn63 said:Its not too early at all, it costs SMEs time and money yet offers no benefits.
SMEs will now have to increase their workload and, consequently expense, in completing and submitting returns 4 times a year instead of one. This incurs cost but has absolutely no benefit. The same costs are incurred by HMRC.
Now perhaps you could refute that.
I am more bothered by HOW it is implemented than its frequency. That detail is missing.0 -
Calm down. He's doing as well as Farage.TGOHF said:
Looks like people are making their mind up about Corbo - the DK faction plummeting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Labour would be mad to ditch Corbyn0 -
So you actually have no experience of the folk that are going to be most hit by the change. Thanks for your honesty.Richard_Nabavi said:
Plenty of experience with small businesses (although all VAT registered).TCPoliticalBetting said:Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?
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That's exactly as one would expect. As he comes to the end of his honeymoon period, fewer and fewer moderate voters will give him the benefit of the doubt, and some on the far-left will be becoming disappointed at such compromises as he has been forced to make.TheScreamingEagles said:Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.
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#Jez100 will be epic - Monday 21st December...TGOHF said:
Looks like people are making their mind up about Corbo - the DK faction plummeting.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
What about accountants? Are they going to charge a 1/4 of their usual annual bill for tax return forms at each quarter? Hmm. Let me try and guess the answer.....blackburn63 said:
Deary me, so there are, arguably, benefits to HMRC which ignores the additional time and cost incurred to SMEs. In other words you're asking SMEs to increase their burden, millions of them.Richard_Nabavi said:
I answered quite clearly. Perhaps you missed it, so here was the answer:blackburn63 said:No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.
Let's see if this pans out as a vote winner for Osborne shall we.0 -
Yes - only Cammo has a higher disstisfaction rating.Slackbladder said:
Awful for Corbyn there.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The number of Corbynites posting here has dwindled to almost zero. That may be just a natural fall away after initial enthusiasm - or indicative that things aren't turning out as they expected.
Certainly not seen so many on Twitter either over the last month or so.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's exactly as one would expect. As he comes to the end of his honeymoon period, fewer and fewer moderate voters will give him the benefit of the doubt, and some on the far-left will be becoming disappointed at such compromises as he has been forced to make.TheScreamingEagles said:Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.0 -
Flat rate VAT (which most SMEs use) is surely far simpler than the quarterly tax return will be. For example, depreciations of capital investments.TCPoliticalBetting said:
So you actually have no experience of the folk that are going to be most hit by the change. Thanks for your honesty.Richard_Nabavi said:
Plenty of experience with small businesses (although all VAT registered).TCPoliticalBetting said:Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?
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There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.0
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1. How will it reduce errors? For Businesses with turnover under £80k, having 3 times more entries to make actually increases the number of errors with normal human falliability - and the teething troubles that new systems have.Richard_Nabavi said:
I answered quite clearly. Perhaps you missed it, so here was the answer:blackburn63 said:No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.
2. How will it reduce admin if HMRC are getting 3 times more entries from these people?
3. How will it make evasion harder just by getting 3 times the number of data inputs? These are small operations that are trying to comply, whereas it is the black market operations that do not bother submitting any annual returns.0 -
Nick Palmer still posts - he's a Corbynite.Plato_Says said:The number of Corbynites posting here has dwindled to almost zero.
Certainly not seen so many on Twitter either over the last month or so.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's exactly as one would expect. As he comes to the end of his honeymoon period, fewer and fewer moderate voters will give him the benefit of the doubt, and some on the far-left will be becoming disappointed at such compromises as he has been forced to make.TheScreamingEagles said:Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.
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Corbyn on the side of business, of whatever size?SandyRentool said:There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.
Colour me skeptical....0 -
True, but I've got plenty of experience of people whingeing about anything the taxman ever changes - self assessment, RTI, the child benefit changes 'forcing people to fill in self assessment forms', etc etc etc. In this case the fuss is even sillier because there aren't actually enough details to say what the additional burden, if any, is going to be.TCPoliticalBetting said:So you actually have no experience of the folk that are going to be most hit by the change. Thanks for your honesty.
People should calm down. It's not being introduced for at least five years, and it won't change any votes when it is introduced.
The changes to contractors' expenses and Osborne's attack on service companies are much bigger issues. Those I think will have an effect.0 -
How about "Not to intoduce a major reform of th NHS"?blackburn63 said:
Well done you.Richard_Nabavi said:
Nigel Farage was the most prominent,:blackburn63 said:I'm sure if you name those kippers they'll have the humility to apologise.
In a campaign letter published in the Daily Telegraph today, Mr Farage urged voters to "not be fooled" by Mr Cameron's pledge for an in/out vote on Britain's EU membership by 2017, drawing on the broken promise by the Conservative leader in 2006 over the Lisbon Treaty.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/574958/Farage-don-t-trust-Cameron-on-EU-referendum-promise
In addition, PB was full of people making the same absurd claim before the election. On a number of occasions I tried to get some of them to back up their claim with a bet, but sadly none of them was prepared to do so. Pity. It would have been free money for me.
Has Cameron ever broken a promise?0 -
If only Labour didn't have a Shadow Chancellor more associated with being on the side of the IRA than small businesses.SandyRentool said:There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.
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I'm trying to figure out how a reduction in HMRC's administration costs will benefit my business. Will they give me a refund relative to their savings or a tax cut?blackburn63 said:
Deary me, so there are, arguably, benefits to HMRC which ignores the additional time and cost incurred to SMEs. In other words you're asking SMEs to increase their burden, millions of them.Richard_Nabavi said:
I answered quite clearly. Perhaps you missed it, so here was the answer:blackburn63 said:No you haven't answered the question at all. I asked quite clearly why you think it's a good idea for businesses, I'm still waiting for the response.
It will reduce HMRC's administration costs, reduce errors and make evasion harder. That benefits all legitimate businesses.
Let's see if this pans out as a vote winner for Osborne shall we.0 -
That's a ski jump in unpopularity by Jeremy Corbyn. When was the last time that a leader dropped by so much in a month?0
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Some are very depressed by the reality of waking up to something that seemed a good idea the previous night. Others are on a high that they have a real loony leftie Leader at last in their lifetime.TGOHF said:
Nick Palmer still posts - he's a Corbynite.Plato_Says said:The number of Corbynites posting here has dwindled to almost zero.
Certainly not seen so many on Twitter either over the last month or so.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's exactly as one would expect. As he comes to the end of his honeymoon period, fewer and fewer moderate voters will give him the benefit of the doubt, and some on the far-left will be becoming disappointed at such compromises as he has been forced to make.TheScreamingEagles said:Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.0 -
I'm unsure if NPXMPX's position counts as a view of anything - he makes Andy Burnham look like a man of principle.TGOHF said:
Nick Palmer still posts - he's a Corbynite.Plato_Says said:The number of Corbynites posting here has dwindled to almost zero.
Certainly not seen so many on Twitter either over the last month or so.Richard_Nabavi said:
That's exactly as one would expect. As he comes to the end of his honeymoon period, fewer and fewer moderate voters will give him the benefit of the doubt, and some on the far-left will be becoming disappointed at such compromises as he has been forced to make.TheScreamingEagles said:Jeremy Corbyn has suffered a steep fall in public approval during a month dominated by in-fighting over the Syria war vote, an exclusive poll reveals today.
Ipsos MORI found that net satisfaction with the Labour leader’s performance had plunged 14 points and, for the first time, half the public are unhappy with the way he is doing his job.0 -
Finding Nemo is very much a kids film. Lego Movie absolutely is not (although kids will love it). It may not be as great if you never had any Lego as a kid but for me it is an all time great film. Inside Out was a complete surprise to me and again, it has a very good story for adults to enjoy.Plato_Says said:I've missed all those. Will try it. I was bored stiff/schmaltzed out by Finding Nemo and tuned out.
MarqueeMark said:
And Madagascar 3!Plato_Says said:Thanx - I'll add it to Toy Story 3 and Puss In Boots.
Dair said:
If you have not seen it, I think Inside Out is a film a lot of people might miss.Plato_Says said:A list of recommendations would be much appreciated.
A few of us swap TV show favourites, but we don't see many film ones. I've mostly stopped watching them and would like to get interested again.richardDodd said:MM..You may also enjoy "Youth"...got so many films to plough through...so far the standard has been very high.
Despite being a Pixar kids film, it really is filled with feels and an absolutely wonderful movie.0 -
The number of hours worked is at an all time high, I believe it has gone over 1 billion for the first time. As more than 100% of the increase is in the private sector (given public sector employment is still falling) they must presumably be doing something useful.justin124 said:
I would not be so sure. Many of the people back at work are not in what most people would view as full time employment. As far as the DWP is concerned anyone working at least 16 hours per week has a full time job , but most people working 16 - 30 hours per week are likely to see themselves as in part time employment. If the unemployment data took account of Full time Equivalent calculations the figures would be significantly higher than what is being shown.DavidL said:George show know that politicians seeking to show they are up with the zeitgeist never ends well (Artic Monkeys anyone) but he was probably a little buoyant after another truly stunning set of employment figures yesterday. This article has a good summary: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/12053072/UK-unemployment-wages-pay-slowdown-jobs-employment.html
All of the unemployment caused by Brown' incompetence has now been eliminated and youth unemployment is at its lowest for 9 years. Most of the EZ countries must weep as their more ambitious and better qualified seek better opportunities here.
I simply do not believe that such continued level of growth in employment is consistent with a mere 2.5% growth this year. I think it is very likely that these figures will be increased to over 3% eventually. It just might take a few years and, by then, not be of interest to anyone but economic historians.0 -
Yes there is. Just a pity you have Corbyn and not a Blairite progressive.SandyRentool said:There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.
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MM SPECTRE ARRIVED A FEW MINUTES AGO...Watched Johnny Depp last night in "Black Mass"
great performance..quite enjoyed Mad Max...mainly from a D.O.P perspective..0 -
Mr. Eagles, quite.
If Labour didn't have Mao as Shadow Chancellor, this'd be a great opportunity for them.
As it is, I'd rather have Osborne cocking things up with meddling bullshit than McDonnell in Number 11.
Mr. Betting, that's my view as well. It's pointlessly creating more administration and bureaucracy. Osborne's being a cock.0 -
Have you every critisied something Cameron or Osborne have done, or is that a silly question ?Richard_Nabavi said:
Other than prejudice against Osborne, do you have any particular reason to say it's a 'disaster' and a 'bad decision'?blackburn63 said:We discussed this last week, I've no idea who is advising Osborne but this is a disaster for SMEs and HMRC. He can't continue making bad decisions.
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It would seem that small landlords and businesses are cash cows for the Tories, easily plundered, whilst the serial corporate avoiders set their own tax rules, and the large scale spiv property corporations get hoovering.SandyRentool said:There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.
Labour are too far gone to be seen as anyone's friend.0 -
Off the top of my head, Cameron when the Millie Dowler story broke.AlastairMeeks said:That's a ski jump in unpopularity by Jeremy Corbyn. When was the last time that a leader dropped by so much in a month?
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The one similarity is being in a cycle of monthly form/online inputs for Government.rottenborough said:
Flat rate VAT (which most SMEs use) is surely far simpler than the quarterly tax return will be. For example, depreciations of capital investments.TCPoliticalBetting said:
So you actually have no experience of the folk that are going to be most hit by the change. Thanks for your honesty.Richard_Nabavi said:
Plenty of experience with small businesses (although all VAT registered).TCPoliticalBetting said:Richard what is your career experience in small non vat business that informs you about this?
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Lol, Farron has the best approval rating because half the country has no idea who he is.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/677450563634774016
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Yes and Yes.Indigo said:Have you every critisied something Cameron or Osborne have done, or is that a silly question ?
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I believe the IRA have now branched out into several lucrative business ventures.TheScreamingEagles said:
If only Labour didn't have a Shadow Chancellor more associated with being on the side of the IRA than small businesses.SandyRentool said:There is an opportunity for Labour to demonstrate that they are the party on the side of small businesses, with the Tories in the pockets of big business. Plenty of votes in such a strategy, if properly executed. Small business owners are working people rather than "businessmen/businesswomen". We should be on their side.
0
