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Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
For reference: http://cks.nice.org.uk/antiplatelet-treatment#!scenarioReallyEvilMuffin said:
Anyone who has been put on those medications who is savvy enough to be on a forum like this will understand those abbreviations. Also in the UK without any sort of preceding event they will not be put on aspirin.Tim_B said:
You're overthinking this, besides being a show-off.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
This is where you need to be careful with recent updates - aspirin used to be more widely used. Now we know it has limited use in stroke prevention if you also have AF. If you have a stroke then after the initial treatment then clopidogril is now known the one that is best. If you can't take clopidogril (rare) then aspirin is normally used mixed with dipyridamole. Aspirin is still the first line post MI. Starts getting more tricky if you have had both though...Tim_B said:
The 81mg daily aspirin dose is a stroke prevention thing. At about $6 for a bottle of 365 tablets it's a cheap option.HurstLlama said:
Anyway, as you seem have confessed to being a physician, I am not really sure what to make of your nom-de-plume. Should doctors go under the "ReallyEvil" logo?ReallyEvilMuffin said:
75mgs are available but notoriously more expensive than the 300mg's. Could dissolve them in water and throw 3/4 away. However aspirin has been falling out of favour recently and is secondary prevention only in the UK. I believe it is still primary prevention in the US.HurstLlama said:
It might be just around here but I haven't been able to buy tablet form half-strength Asprin for a couple of years. Now they are only available as big (choke a horse size) tablets that are to be dissolved in water.Tim_B said:Regarding this 16 in a pack aspirin thing - if you are male and over 60 presumably your doctor has you on a low dose aspirin regimen (81mg). I get them in bottles of 365 - do they also come 16 to a pack in the UK?
Obviously if your doctor thinks you are a prime candidate they will prescribe something more.
Most doctors here will automatically put males with no symptoms of AF or incidence of MI over 55-60 onto 81mg daily aspirin as a preventative. That's it. That's all I said.
Throwing out abbreviations most people won't know and drug names for no reason and unasked doesn't make you look good.
All I am trying to do is suggest to people that the evidence may have changed since they had been started on medications/advised them and it might be a good idea to check in with their GP/Family physician.0 -
New preferred deputy candidate? I would assume not Ben Bradshaw.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
I think it's almost certain that Corbyn is going to declare 3 line whip for Lab MPs to vote against bombing.
What it then boils down to is does Cameron feel confident enough that a minimum of approx. 30 Lab MPs will back him?
If not, the vote is off. Simple as that.
And then Corbyn will declare that he stopped the bombing.0 -
The reason that the various Western (and other) countries providing airpower have "moderated" their help is almost certainly because of their concern as to what will happen when ISIS is defeated. The probable result will be ethnic cleansing (mass expulsions of the population).JosiasJessop said:
We can get a pointer from what the bombing in Iraq has, or has not, achieved. Iraqi and Iranian forces retook Tikrit from iSIS back in April; although there was purposefully little allied bombing directly in support, it is claimed the bombing pinned down ISIS fighters elsewhere, helping the government forces (who were reportedly reluctant for US help)rottenborough said:
The trouble with these predictions, such as "bombing Syria won't work", is that nobody knows. "No battle plan ever survives first contact with the enemy,”DecrepitJohnL said:Are you sure? Following your link gets a Stop the War republication of a Guardian article by Simon Jenkins examining a number of previous bombing campaigns and concluding bombing Syria won't work and it needs boots on the ground. The article was published on both sites in September.
http://stopwar.org.uk/news/bombing-is-immoral-stupid-and-never-wins-wars-syria-is-the-latest-victim
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/18/bombing-immoral-stupid-syria-victim-deaths-dronesPlato_Says said:Stop the War (@STWuk) breaks it's silence on Russia's intervention in Syria. They support it.
http://t.co/AbcALJIxrN http://t.co/mPjUojRThz
Ramadi, which ISIS captured in May after a six-month battle, is now encircled by government troops, and is believed to have been cut off from outside support. Again, there has been limited air support, but reports of some potentially useful targeted attacks.
So it looks as if, in battles itself, some of the groups fighting are reluctant to ask for US help (the Iraqi government itself is less so). That does not mean that strikes to destroy and interrupt ISIS supply lines away from the front are useless.
So, potentially a mixed picture that everyone can find something in to back up their position ...
Incidentally, for anyone wanting to read what happens after a city like Tikrit is recaptured from IS, then the Wiki entry for the second battle of Tikrit is sombre reading for all sorts of reasons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Tikrit#Clearing_the_city0 -
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
NOTAkle4 said:
New preferred deputy candidate? I would assume not Ben Bradshaw.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
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I'm not in the UK. Here (USA) it's normal to start the low dose aspirin regimen assuming good health. As a preventative it's hard to find a more cost-effective one. If you have a 'preceding event' they will prescribe more aggressively. Besides you will not be 'prescribed' low dose aspirin. It costs me about $6 for a year's worth of Bayer's finest from Costco.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
Anyone who has been put on those medications who is savvy enough to be on a forum like this will understand those abbreviations. Also in the UK without any sort of preceding event they will not be put on aspirin.Tim_B said:
You're overthinking this, besides being a show-off.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
This is where you need to be careful with recent updates - aspirin used to be more widely used. Now we know it has limited use in stroke prevention if you also have AF. If you have a stroke then after the initial treatment then clopidogril is now known the one that is best. If you can't take clopidogril (rare) then aspirin is normally used mixed with dipyridamole. Aspirin is still the first line post MI. Starts getting more tricky if you have had both though...Tim_B said:
The 81mg daily aspirin dose is a stroke prevention thing. At about $6 for a bottle of 365 tablets it's a cheap option.HurstLlama said:
Thanks, not that I know the difference between secondary and primary prevention. I got told years ago after a DVT to take one half-strength asprin a day and nobody has told me to stop so I still do.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
75mgs are available but notoriously more expensive than the 300mg's. Could dissolve them in water and throw 3/4 away. However aspirin has been falling out of favour recently and is secondary prevention only in the UK. I believe it is still primary prevention in the US.HurstLlama said:Tim_B said:snip
Anyway, as you seem have confessed to being a physician, I am not really sure what to make of your nom-de-plume. Should doctors go under the "ReallyEvil" logo?
Obviously if your doctor thinks you are a prime candidate they will prescribe something more.
Most doctors here will automatically put males with no symptoms of AF or incidence of MI over 55-60 onto 81mg daily aspirin as a preventative. That's it. That's all I said.
Throwing out abbreviations most people won't know and drug names for no reason and unasked doesn't make you look good.
All I am trying to do is suggest to people that the evidence may have changed since they had been started on medications/advised them and it might be a good idea to check in with their GP/Family physician.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to check in regularly with your physician.0 -
Unlike most Labour members, it seems that most Labour MPs want Labour to start winning elections again at some stage.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Members are not "punishing" MPs by supporting Corbyn, they are turning their backs on voters looking for a credible alternative to the Tories.
0 -
Oh good I will double my blood pressure tablets in preparation.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
Which credible alternative you referring to Liz KendallSouthamObserver said:
Unlike most Labour members, it seems that most Labour MPs want Labour to start winning elections again at some stage.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Members are not "punishing" MPs by supporting Corbyn, they are turning their backs on voters looking for a credible alternative to the Tories.
0 -
Don't forget the low dose aspirinbigjohnowls said:
Oh good I will double my blood pressure tablets in preparation.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
Maybe. That depends on what Corbyn does overnight.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
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Too late now, I'm off to bed and I've pressed the autopublish button for 5.30amMarkHopkins said:
Maybe. That depends what Corbyn does overnight.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
Many a true word...MarkHopkins said:
Maybe. That depends what Corbyn does overnight.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Forward planning of threads is becoming very hard.0 -
Tyson Fury (great name for a boxer) ahead supposedly into round 10.0
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Or unless it turns out that Grant Shapps is the love child of Ted Heath and Barbara Castle.MarkHopkins said:
Maybe. That depends on what Corbyn does overnight.TheScreamingEagles said:
You will enjoy the morning thread, is about the NHS.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.0 -
Definitely very good for it's cost. Lots of good actions. But everything is prescribed here more or less and it is so so pre event. But it is great for many things! That I take 1 a day from the shop attitude is very rare in the UK but is easy to miss as docs easily assume that the only regular meds they take are prescribed.Tim_B said:
I'm not in the UK. Here (USA) it's normal to start the low dose aspirin regimen assuming good health. As a preventative it's hard to find a more cost-effective one. If you have a 'preceding event' they will prescribe more aggressively. Besides you will not be 'prescribed' low dose aspirin. It costs me about $6 for a year's worth of Bayer's finest from Costco.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
Anyone who has been put on those medications who is savvy enough to be on a forum like this will understand those abbreviations. Also in the UK without any sort of preceding event they will not be put on aspirin.Tim_B said:
You're overthinking this, besides being a show-off.ReallyEvilMuffin said:Tim_B said:
The 81mg daily aspirin dose is a stroke prevention thing. At about $6 for a bottle of 365 tablets it's a cheap option.HurstLlama said:
Thanks, not that I know the difference between secondary and primary prevention. I got told years ago after a DVT to take one half-strength asprin a day and nobody has told me to stop so I still do.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
75mgs are available but notoriously more expensive than the 300mg's. Could dissolve them in water and throw 3/4 away. However aspirin has been falling out of favour recently and is secondary prevention only in the UK. I believe it is still primary prevention in the US.HurstLlama said:Tim_B said:snip
Anyway, as you seem have confessed to being a physician, I am not really sure what to make of your nom-de-plume. Should doctors go under the "ReallyEvil" logo?
Obviously if your doctor thinks you are a prime candidate they will prescribe something more.
Most doctors here will automatically put males with no symptoms of AF or incidence of MI over 55-60 onto 81mg daily aspirin as a preventative. That's it. That's all I said.
Throwing out abbreviations most people won't know and drug names for no reason and unasked doesn't make you look good.
All I am trying to do is suggest to people that the evidence may have changed since they had been started on medications/advised them and it might be a good idea to check in with their GP/Family physician.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to check in regularly with your physician.0 -
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros. Smalling looks like the future of Englands defence though.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Happy days at Leicester. We dropped points today.0 -
It's a lame affair, though. barely a decent punch between them. Klitskcho needs a KO nowbigjohnowls said:Tyson Fury (great name for a boxer) ahead supposedly into round 10.
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Richie Woodhall reckons Fury 5 rounds ahead with penultimate round underway.
#itsadraw0 -
Liz Kendall would be doing better than Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:
Which credible alternative you referring to Liz KendallSouthamObserver said:
Unlike most Labour members, it seems that most Labour MPs want Labour to start winning elections again at some stage.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Members are not "punishing" MPs by supporting Corbyn, they are turning their backs on voters looking for a credible alternative to the Tories.0 -
Fury deducted a point in round 11
I reckon Vlad might be declared winner despite losing in most peoples opinion0 -
She is Fick and got 4% support thoughfoxinsoxuk said:
Liz Kendall would be doing better than Corbyn.bigjohnowls said:
Which credible alternative you referring to Liz KendallSouthamObserver said:
Unlike most Labour members, it seems that most Labour MPs want Labour to start winning elections again at some stage.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Members are not "punishing" MPs by supporting Corbyn, they are turning their backs on voters looking for a credible alternative to the Tories.0 -
Nah, Vlad looks jaded. No way he's won on points.bigjohnowls said:Fury deducted a point in round 11
I reckon Vlad might be declared winner despite losing in most peoples opinion0 -
I think he will controversially be awarded itTwistedFireStopper said:
Nah, Vlad looks jaded. No way he's won on points.bigjohnowls said:Fury deducted a point in round 11
I reckon Vlad might be declared winner despite losing in most peoples opinion0 -
Well, he can always go into politics like his big brother if boxing is no longer working out.TwistedFireStopper said:
Nah, Vlad looks jaded. No way he's won on points.bigjohnowls said:Fury deducted a point in round 11
I reckon Vlad might be declared winner despite losing in most peoples opinion0 -
So far as I can see, only the Mail leads with this story. Neither the Mirror nor the Observer have it on the front page.
Given the nature of this story, that's extraordinary.0 -
115 112 115 112 116 111 TO Fury0
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But that's the whole point - if you can delay/prevent the event for $6 a year that's good medicine. My doctor insists I visit him every 4 months so he can track my weight, blood pressure and get my blood work done. It's preventive medicine. His office calls to chase if I don't schedule an appointment.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
Definitely very good for it's cost. Lots of good actions. But everything is prescribed here more or less and it is so so pre event. But it is great for many things! That I take 1 a day from the shop attitude is very rare in the UK but is easy to miss as docs easily assume that the only regular meds they take are prescribed.Tim_B said:
I'm not in the UK. Here (USA) it's normal to start the low dose aspirin regimen assuming good health. As a preventative it's hard to find a more cost-effective one. If you have a 'preceding event' they will prescribe more aggressively. Besides you will not be 'prescribed' low dose aspirin. It costs me about $6 for a year's worth of Bayer's finest from Costco.ReallyEvilMuffin said:
Anyone who has been put on those medications who is savvy enough to be on a forum like this will understand those abbreviations. Also in the UK without any sort of preceding event they will not be put on aspirin.Tim_B said:
You're overthinking this, besides being a show-off.ReallyEvilMuffin said:Tim_B said:
The 81mg daily aspirin dose is a stroke prevention thing. At about $6 for a bottle of 365 tablets it's a cheap option.HurstLlama said:ReallyEvilMuffin said:
snipHurstLlama said:Tim_B said:snip
Obviously if your doctor thinks you are a prime candidate they will prescribe something more.
Most doctors here will automatically put males with no symptoms of AF or incidence of MI over 55-60 onto 81mg daily aspirin as a preventative. That's it. That's all I said.
Throwing out abbreviations most people won't know and drug names for no reason and unasked doesn't make you look good.
All I am trying to do is suggest to people that the evidence may have changed since they had been started on medications/advised them and it might be a good idea to check in with their GP/Family physician.
It's ALWAYS a good idea to check in regularly with your physician.
Lest you think I'm El Gordo, I'm 6 feet tall and weigh 180lbs.
A chemist/drug store is a 'shop'.0 -
Gypsy King beats Vlad
Richie Woodhall 100% correct had it 116/1110 -
He deserved it, but it was a poor show.bigjohnowls said:115 112 115 112 116 111 TO Fury
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"Nice to see your home fans booing you! That's what loyal support is!"foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:
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Totally deserved. Watching it in Boston and the US commentators are clear Fury walked it. They're right.bigjohnowls said:115 112 115 112 116 111 TO Fury
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The Mail and the Sun have been making most of the running on this - so much for Corbynista media analysis.....AlastairMeeks said:So far as I can see, only the Mail leads with this story. Neither the Mirror nor the Observer have it on the front page.
Given the nature of this story, that's extraordinary.0 -
Oooh we might get an electoral reform thread in the morning now
One in five peers could be sacked to help control the size of the House of Lords, David Cameron’s official reviewer into reforming the second chamber will suggest next month.
Lord Strathclyde, who was asked by the Prime Minister to look at the Lords after they blocked Tory tax credit cuts, is expected to give a “nod” to the idea in his report.
The Tory peer also will tell Mr Cameron to create a new law stripping Lords of their ability to veto changes to secondary legislation – his main recommendation.
http://bit.ly/1RdBlTM0 -
Maybe those papers don't want to do anything that might deflate the Tory vote in Oldham.AlastairMeeks said:
So far as I can see, only the Mail leads with this story. Neither the Mirror nor the Observer have it on the front page.
Given the nature of this story, that's extraordinary.0 -
Leicester fans were giving Rooney some stick "You're just a shit Jamie Vardy" etc.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Nice to see your home fans booing you! That's what loyal support is!"foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:
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Labour would be ahead in the polls and cruising to victory in Oldham with any of the other three leadership candidates.bigjohnowls said:
Which credible alternative you referring to Liz KendallSouthamObserver said:
Unlike most Labour members, it seems that most Labour MPs want Labour to start winning elections again at some stage.bigjohnowls said:Think the way some Labour MPs are behaving actually shores up Jezzas support with the membership. After all his policy views on the big issues of Austerity and war is in line with most members.
I certainly will not be voting for Watson again.
Members are not "punishing" MPs by supporting Corbyn, they are turning their backs on voters looking for a credible alternative to the Tories.
0 -
The Tories would have to get the Lords to agree - and a party that only got 36.9% of the national vote would find it hard pressing for major change entirely in its own interest.TheScreamingEagles said:Oooh we might get an electoral reform thread in the morning now
One in five peers could be sacked to help control the size of the House of Lords, David Cameron’s official reviewer into reforming the second chamber will suggest next month.
Lord Strathclyde, who was asked by the Prime Minister to look at the Lords after they blocked Tory tax credit cuts, is expected to give a “nod” to the idea in his report.
The Tory peer also will tell Mr Cameron to create a new law stripping Lords of their ability to veto changes to secondary legislation – his main recommendation.
http://bit.ly/1RdBlTM
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Great news on the boxing front.
Goodnight0 -
You call that stick, you should hear the stick he gets when comes to Anfield, something to do with him being a granny shaggerfoxinsoxuk said:
Leicester fans were giving Rooney some stick "You're just a shit Jamie Vardy" etc.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Nice to see your home fans booing you! That's what loyal support is!"foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
George Eaton, New Statesman:
"But in recent weeks Labour sources have become ever more anxious. Shadow cabinet members returning from campaigning report that Corbyn has gone down "very badly" with voters, with his original comments on shoot-to-kill particularly toxic. Most MPs expect the party's majority to lie within the 1,000-2,000 range. But one insider told me that the party's majority would likely fall into the hundreds ("I'd be thrilled with 2,000") and warned that defeat was far from unthinkable. The fear is that low turnout and defections to Ukip could allow the Farageists to sneak a win. MPs are further troubled by the likelihood that the contest will take place on the same day as the Syria vote (Thursday), which will badly divide Labour."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/could-labour-lose-oldham-election0 -
Can't see that going down well. I would presume reducing the size of the chamber, perhaps slightly in the Tory favour - on the justification to begin by culling the ones there the longest - would be sought and the price would be dropping the threat of the other recommendations?TheScreamingEagles said:Oooh we might get an electoral reform thread in the morning now
One in five peers could be sacked to help control the size of the House of Lords, David Cameron’s official reviewer into reforming the second chamber will suggest next month.
Lord Strathclyde, who was asked by the Prime Minister to look at the Lords after they blocked Tory tax credit cuts, is expected to give a “nod” to the idea in his report.
The Tory peer also will tell Mr Cameron to create a new law stripping Lords of their ability to veto changes to secondary legislation – his main recommendation.
http://bit.ly/1RdBlTM0 -
Frankly, I think a Labour loss would be a massive get-out-jail card for the party. They might start to realise what an electoral albatross Corbyn is.AndyJS said:George Eaton, New Statesman:
"But in recent weeks Labour sources have become ever more anxious. Shadow cabinet members returning from campaigning report that Corbyn has gone down "very badly" with voters, with his original comments on shoot-to-kill particularly toxic. Most MPs expect the party's majority to lie within the 1,000-2,000 range. But one insider told me that the party's majority would likely fall into the hundreds ("I'd be thrilled with 2,000") and warned that defeat was far from unthinkable. The fear is that low turnout and defections to Ukip could allow the Farageists to sneak a win. MPs are further troubled by the likelihood that the contest will take place on the same day as the Syria vote (Thursday), which will badly divide Labour."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/could-labour-lose-oldham-election0 -
Excellent cartoon on the anti-ISIS coalition0
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Also just been to see Bridge of Spies with Mark Rylance, Alan Alda and Tom Hanks, well worth watching if you like Cold War dramas0
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Oh TSE, share the rest of the chant with us.TheScreamingEagles said:
You call that stick, you should hear the stick he gets when comes to Anfield, something to do with him being a granny shaggerfoxinsoxuk said:
Leicester fans were giving Rooney some stick "You're just a shit Jamie Vardy" etc.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Nice to see your home fans booing you! That's what loyal support is!"foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
If Labour hold the seat by 500 votes it'll be interesting to hear the spin from Corbynites saying what a fantastic result it is.rottenborough said:
Frankly, I think a Labour loss would be a massive get-out-jail card for the party. They might start to realise what an electoral albatross Corbyn is.AndyJS said:George Eaton, New Statesman:
"But in recent weeks Labour sources have become ever more anxious. Shadow cabinet members returning from campaigning report that Corbyn has gone down "very badly" with voters, with his original comments on shoot-to-kill particularly toxic. Most MPs expect the party's majority to lie within the 1,000-2,000 range. But one insider told me that the party's majority would likely fall into the hundreds ("I'd be thrilled with 2,000") and warned that defeat was far from unthinkable. The fear is that low turnout and defections to Ukip could allow the Farageists to sneak a win. MPs are further troubled by the likelihood that the contest will take place on the same day as the Syria vote (Thursday), which will badly divide Labour."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/could-labour-lose-oldham-election0 -
Fury gone 3rd favourite for SPOTY - 6.0/7.00
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The delusion continues then.AndyJS said:If Labour hold the seat by 500 votes it'll be interesting to hear the spin from Corbynites saying what a fantastic result it is.
rottenborough said:
Frankly, I think a Labour loss would be a massive get-out-jail card for the party. They might start to realise what an electoral albatross Corbyn is.AndyJS said:George Eaton, New Statesman:
"But in recent weeks Labour sources have become ever more anxious. Shadow cabinet members returning from campaigning report that Corbyn has gone down "very badly" with voters, with his original comments on shoot-to-kill particularly toxic. Most MPs expect the party's majority to lie within the 1,000-2,000 range. But one insider told me that the party's majority would likely fall into the hundreds ("I'd be thrilled with 2,000") and warned that defeat was far from unthinkable. The fear is that low turnout and defections to Ukip could allow the Farageists to sneak a win. MPs are further troubled by the likelihood that the contest will take place on the same day as the Syria vote (Thursday), which will badly divide Labour."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/could-labour-lose-oldham-election0 -
Is pretty much that,Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Oh TSE, share the rest of the chant with us.TheScreamingEagles said:
You call that stick, you should hear the stick he gets when comes to Anfield, something to do with him being a granny shaggerfoxinsoxuk said:
Leicester fans were giving Rooney some stick "You're just a shit Jamie Vardy" etc.Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Nice to see your home fans booing you! That's what loyal support is!"foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Absolutely NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zm-2S0fSCVw0 -
No it won't - the spin on holding seats that should be easy holds anyway is always similar, regardless of how close I imagine. It shows the government is out of touch, doing things wrong, blather blather, never mind we always win this seat, majority not the point, hostile press, iraq war, praise stalin, I mean Jeremy, iraq war iraq war iraq war.AndyJS said:If Labour hold the seat by 500 votes it'll be interesting to hear the spin from Corbynites saying what a fantastic result it is.
rottenborough said:
Frankly, I think a Labour loss would be a massive get-out-jail card for the party. They might start to realise what an electoral albatross Corbyn is.AndyJS said:George Eaton, New Statesman:
"But in recent weeks Labour sources have become ever more anxious. Shadow cabinet members returning from campaigning report that Corbyn has gone down "very badly" with voters, with his original comments on shoot-to-kill particularly toxic. Most MPs expect the party's majority to lie within the 1,000-2,000 range. But one insider told me that the party's majority would likely fall into the hundreds ("I'd be thrilled with 2,000") and warned that defeat was far from unthinkable. The fear is that low turnout and defections to Ukip could allow the Farageists to sneak a win. MPs are further troubled by the likelihood that the contest will take place on the same day as the Syria vote (Thursday), which will badly divide Labour."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/11/could-labour-lose-oldham-election0 -
How many votes did the Lords get?MikeSmithson said:
The Tories would have to get the Lords to agree - and a party that only got 36.9% of the national vote would find it hard pressing for major change entirely in its own interest.TheScreamingEagles said:Oooh we might get an electoral reform thread in the morning now
One in five peers could be sacked to help control the size of the House of Lords, David Cameron’s official reviewer into reforming the second chamber will suggest next month.
Lord Strathclyde, who was asked by the Prime Minister to look at the Lords after they blocked Tory tax credit cuts, is expected to give a “nod” to the idea in his report.
The Tory peer also will tell Mr Cameron to create a new law stripping Lords of their ability to veto changes to secondary legislation – his main recommendation.
http://bit.ly/1RdBlTM0 -
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:
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Where then is his self respect?NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Corbyn is on Marr tomorrow. Grab the popcorn folks.0
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IIRC Popbitch said he gets £200k per match from his boot sponsors. That'll cost him a bit.foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:
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If the leader of a party cannot command the majority of his MPs with respect to an issue of war and peace then IMHO he has to go. Or is this an example of the new politics?NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Jahadi Jez and McMao on the Sundays tomorrow. What could possibly go wrong? All they need to do is send out Red Ken to complete the fun.rottenborough said:Corbyn is on Marr tomorrow. Grab the popcorn folks.
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MPs owe their mandates to their electorate - not the membership.NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:
That is what they all need to keep at the forefront of their thinking.0 -
Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!0 -
On topic - I'm not sure this will deflect much (if any) pressure from Corbyn. Its a tragic tale - and if the allegations are true, been handled very badly - but it only really affects those directly involved and a demoted Minister has now resigned.
Corbyn, on the other hand, aspires to be Prime Minister in 2020
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"I'm sick and tired of popcorn!"rottenborough said:Corbyn is on Marr tomorrow. Grab the popcorn folks.
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Speaking of which. They claim that SuperInjunctions are back in vogue. Lawyers been racking up some billable's.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
IIRC Popbitch said he gets £200k per match from his boot sponsors. That'll cost him a bit.foxinsoxuk said:
Rooney was terrible today. Time to be dropped as England captain. I wouldn't waste a slot to take him to the Euros.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
Important site notice.
I shall be editing PB on Friday (the day after the Oldham by election)
As you all know, nothing major happens when Mike is away from the site.0 -
No. Doing an end-run round your Shadow Cabinet to the activist base (and only some of them, and only those on the internet) to pre-empt further discussion is 'the new politics'rottenborough said:
Or is this an example of the new politics?NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.
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Turkeys don't vote for ThanksgivingMikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.0 -
A referendum on sacking dozens of Lib Dem peers would surely pass with a massive majority0
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Surely not, they are apparently the only effective opposition that the country has to the government at the moment, to hear them tell it at least, and that's needed, I'm sure the people see that and will reward their non lord fellows.runnymede said:A referendum on sacking dozens of Lib Dem peers would surely pass with a massive majority
Good night.0 -
Nobody votes for the LordsMikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!0 -
No they don't: Parliament Act.MikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.0 -
But my point is that their overwhelming concern will be to keep their "jobs" (and expenses etc).MikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.
They hardly ever block Secondary Legislation anyway so it's only a very small concession to make.0 -
I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.0
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No it isn't.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
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Wouldn't even that require a number of years (and a lot of political capital)?david_herdson said:
No they don't: Parliament Act.MikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.0 -
Yes and an American student US lawyer James Donovan brought into the mix too, yes Mark, Alan, Tom and I go way back or at least to the back of my dvd shelf!Tim_B said:
It's about the Powers - Abel exchange, isn't it?HYUFD said:Also just been to see Bridge of Spies with Mark Rylance, Alan Alda and Tom Hanks, well worth watching if you like Cold War dramas
Didn't realize you knew Rylance, Alda and Hanks0 -
Oh yes it is.GeoffM said:
No it isn't.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
0 -
NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:
How can someone who cannot persuade his own Parliamentary colleagues in the party he leads to support his policy be credibly thought of by the electorate as a possible Prime Minister?
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That's fine in theory.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
The problem is that Peers are now voting almost entirely along party lines on every vote.
Lab + LD combined have 70 more Peers than Con so the Govt is certain to lose every vote - unless they get overwhelming Crossbench support and even then they have to get lucky by much stronger whipping and hoping enough Lab + LD don't turn up.
It's a complete farce. IF enough Lab + LD Peers turn up they can literally defeat everything.0 -
I very much hope that the PLP remember that it was the voters who gave them their mandate and it is to them they owe their primary loyalty.Cyclefree said:NickPalmer said:
Hardly. We're all aware that the PLP is mostly of different mind: the only debate is about whether they will cut him some slack/respect his mandate, depending how you put it. If the PLP mostly votes for bombing, I wouldn't think any of his supporters will blame him - he's clearly doing his best to prevent it.rottenborough said:
If Corbyn can't carry his party with him on this one, he has to go. His whole political existence is predicated on voting against extending bombing to ISIS in Syria.TheScreamingEagles said:
How can someone who cannot persuade his own Parliamentary colleagues in the party he leads to support his policy be credibly thought of by the electorate as a possible Prime Minister?
They do not owe the membership the same respect as they do the real voters. The ones they were elected to represent.
Corbyn may have won the leadership but he has displayed none of the traits of being a leader. A serial rebel, he is reaping the rewards of decades of disloyalty. He can expect nothing less than the same.0 -
Which they exceeded in seeking to extend the franchise in the EU referendum - something not in the manifesto of the party forming the UK government...Danny565 said:THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
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Oh no it isn'tTim_B said:
Oh yes it is.GeoffM said:
No it isn't.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
0 -
But it's the case in a lot of democracies (not least the US) that the government of the day doesn't have a majority in both legislative chambers. All it means is that the govt has to work harder to be more consensual and less extreme, to win over lawmakers from other parties.MikeL said:
That's fine in theory.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
The problem is that Peers are now voting almost entirely along party lines on every vote.
Lab + LD combined have 70 more Peers than Con so the Govt is certain to lose every vote - unless they get overwhelming Crossbench support and even then they have to get lucky by much stronger whipping and hoping enough Lab + LD don't turn up.
It's a complete farce. IF enough Lab + LD Peers turn up they can literally defeat everything.0 -
Shocking. Perhaps we could have a thread on AV for the House of Lords.MikeL said:
That's fine in theory.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
The problem is that Peers are now voting almost entirely along party lines on every vote.
Lab + LD combined have 70 more Peers than Con so the Govt is certain to lose every vote - unless they get overwhelming Crossbench support and even then they have to get lucky by much stronger whipping and hoping enough Lab + LD don't turn up.
It's a complete farce. IF enough Lab + LD Peers turn up they can literally defeat everything.0 -
I don't understand this argument - that will only go ahead if the (fully-elected) Commons also approves it anyway.CarlottaVance said:
Which they exceeded in seeking to extend the franchise in the EU referendum - something not in the manifesto of the party forming the UK government...Danny565 said:THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
While the Lords (rightly, IMO) has the power to block legislation, they don't have the power (again rightly) to pass legislation of their own without the Commons also approving it.0 -
Angus Robertson:
“I have an opportunity every week to ask two questions [of the Prime Minister], and I put a lot of thought into what are the key questions of the week, and I think in normal circumstances you’d expect the leader of the Labour Party to raise those important questions. Not once since the new leadership took over have I found my intended questions or subject of questioning preceded by the Labour Party.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angus-robertson-snp-westminster-leader-on-being-the-new-star-of-prime-ministers-questions-a6752851.html0 -
Lords reform was in the 2015 Conservative manifesto.MikeSmithson said:
But whatever is proposed has to be agreed by the Lords. Do turkeys vote for Xmas?MikeL said:Wonder if Cameron's plan is to threaten the Lords with getting rid of some of them but he then compromises by "settling" for a new rule whereby they can't block Secondary Legislation.
That's my guess!
The LAB reforms in the 1997 parliament came off the back of a landslide victory and reform had been in the GE1997 manifesto.0 -
Everything that the alleged majority government fails to get through is always the fault of Labour or Nick Clegg and the Lords or the SNP. Nothing in the view of PB comment consensus is ever or has ever been the fault of the Conservative Party, which allegedly won a majority. The harsh lesson is that winning one-third of votes doesn't mean everyone else has to roll over and take it.0
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It's obvious what Corbyn will say on Marr.
Per tweet on Number Cruncher - McDonnell said earlier that 70,000 members have responded to the email and overwhelming majority are against bombing.
So Corbyn will say he is against bombing and his view is supported by the overwhelming majority of members and he is therefore calling on all MPs to vote against.
That's it. Dead simple. He won't care less about what anyone else says - Shadow Cabinet, Parliamentary Labour Party, anyone.0 -
I'm trying to troll Danny565 - get out of the way!Tim_B said:
Oh yes it is.GeoffM said:
No it isn't.Danny565 said:I've said it before, but PBTories complaining about the Lords vetoing government legislation, is like a burglar complaining about how outrageous it is that people install burglar alarms in their home. THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
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Rob Ford analysis of Oldham:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/28/labour-ukip-oldham-west-byelection-fight
If Labour don't win it appears the PLP will have been denied a talented politician....0 -
Ever so nice of somebody to give the homeless a free coffee...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337901/Shell-suited-shell-shocked-Jezza-faces-defeat-Bedraggled-Corbyn-heads-home-two-cups-coffee-1980s-style-baggy-synthetic-Wilson-tracksuit.html0 -
Yes - all true - and fine in theory.Danny565 said:
I don't understand this argument - that will only go ahead if the (fully-elected) Commons also approves it anyway.CarlottaVance said:
Which they exceeded in seeking to extend the franchise in the EU referendum - something not in the manifesto of the party forming the UK government...Danny565 said:THE WHOLE POINT of it is to act as a check on the government of the day.
While the Lords (rightly, IMO) has the power to block legislation, they don't have the power (again rightly) to pass legislation of their own without the Commons also approving it.
I guess the argument is that the result is gridlock - with it impossible for the Govt to pass any new legislation (and, of course, as you say, the Lords can't pass anything either).
So if Corbyn became PM the Lords could literally block him doing anything - other than Finance Bills.0 -
I didnt know Cameron had effectively sacked Shapps in a Press Conference in Malta:
News of Shapps’ resignation was broken by the Prime Minister at a dramatic press conference in Malta. Mr Cameron effectively sacked Shapps after he was asked if the Minister had his ‘complete confidence.’ He pointedly refused to give it and coldly said a statement ‘would be released’ soon afterwards.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337837/Tatler-Tory-scandal-forces-minister-amid-blackmail-plot-Conservative-MP-s-affair-Cameron-s-friend-go.html0 -
"At the Latin America conference, one of the Labour leader's closest advisers said he hoped a government led by Mr Corbyn would take its inspiration from the radical Left-wing policies of Venezuela – a country that is beset by a soaring crime rate and an ailing economy.FrancisUrquhart said:Ever so nice of somebody to give the homeless a free coffee...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337901/Shell-suited-shell-shocked-Jezza-faces-defeat-Bedraggled-Corbyn-heads-home-two-cups-coffee-1980s-style-baggy-synthetic-Wilson-tracksuit.html
Former MP Chris Williamson said: 'Imagine walking into No 10 with a trade union bill that is based on legislation passed in Venezuela.'"
I suspect there might be trouble getting that Bill through the Lords!!!
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337901/Shell-suited-shell-shocked-Jezza-faces-defeat-Bedraggled-Corbyn-heads-home-two-cups-coffee-1980s-style-baggy-synthetic-Wilson-tracksuit.html#ixzz3spyEldd3
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