politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tory bullying scandal claims the scalp of ex-party chai
Comments
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In my limited experience, I've known three suicides - often very deliberate points are made by the person involved.
1. Terribly henpecked husband hung himself from the banisters so his wife would see him when she walked in the front door. She never returned to the house.
2. Hung herself in memory of her father's suicide in the same spot in the garage.
The 3. shot himself in the head upstairs whilst his wife and small kids were eating breakfast.JosiasJessop said:
Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind his front door with a message something like: "Police only past this point."Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).
That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
As much as I'm hurt by his suicide, I do quite admire (*) the clarity and focus of mind he had to do that. And the death was, by all accounts, peaceful and non-gory.
Unlike someone I know, who had to de-retire from the city when his hand-picked replacement committed suicide. One Sunday, whilst his wife was cooking dinner, he hung himself from a tree in the garden, within view of the kitchen and house. His wife and teenage kids found his body.
(*) I'm not sure that's the right word.0 -
A guy I worked with hung himself in the office wc one morning.JosiasJessop said:I hope this does not upset anyone, but I feel it needs saying:
Whilst I regret his death and sympathise with his family and friends, can I just say that the way the poor man chose to end his life was utterly selfish.
I've known drivers and others who have been deeply affected by suicides on the tracks and their aftermath. It can stay with them forever. It is not just drivers: someone described picking up body parts and tissue from the undercarriage of a train; another finding belongings of a suicide some days afterwards. Even that, he said, had been upsetting.
http://www.samaritans.org/your-community/saving-lives-railway/suicide-and-railways
In some cases, such as Ufton Nervert or Glendale, on-track suicides can kill others.
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One of my best friends at Uni took his own life, even though he was one of the most outgoing, funny blokes I ever knew. He was on a year-long work-placement at the time, had a pretty Spanish GF, so it was a terrible, terrible shock. He was the last person I would have thought it would happened to. I wasn't at the party in question, but he apparently hanged himself after attending a Christmas bash. No one really knew why. Most sad.Plato_Says said:In my limited experience, I've known three suicides - often very deliberate points are made by the person involved.
1. Terribly henpecked husband hung himself from the banisters so his wife would see him when she walked in the front door. She never returned to the house.
2. Hung herself in memory of her father's suicide in the same spot in the garage.
The 3. shot himself in the head upstairs whilst his wife and small kids were eating breakfast.JosiasJessop said:
Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind his front door with a message something like: "Police only past this point."Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).
That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
As much as I'm hurt by his suicide, I do quite admire (*) the clarity and focus of mind he had to do that. And the death was, by all accounts, peaceful and non-gory.
Unlike someone I know, who had to de-retire from the city when his hand-picked replacement committed suicide. One Sunday, whilst his wife was cooking dinner, he hung himself from a tree in the garden, within view of the kitchen and house. His wife and teenage kids found his body.
(*) I'm not sure that's the right word.0 -
@Jossias_Jessop
"If you want to make 'jokes', please don't do it about such a serious issue."
Golly, if we are not to laugh at serious issues where would we be? One might almost say the ability to crack a joke whilst in the depths of existential problems is almost a hallmark of Englishness. Those that can't laugh at themselves and their situation, who cannot see the funny side of things, are the ones that end up causing disruption on the railways etc. as they seek a permanent solution to a temporary problem.0 -
"Could this take the media pressure off Mr Corbyn?" - in a word, NO. There's much more to come for Mr Corbyn I'm afraid.0
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This should be a huge story. But somehow it isn't when we don't have a functioning opposition.0
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Hardly surprising that the Tory regulars say this sorry affair does not damage the party or take the spotlight off the opposition.
For some reason, I suspect they would not reach the same conclusion if this had happened within the Labour party.
It undermines both the Tories and politics more generally.
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They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
TBH, we're knee deep in Labour horrors, one Tory one no matter how sad simply doesn't have the cut through.
Perhaps a LD could shoot a dog?AlastairMeeks said:This should be a huge story. But somehow it isn't when we don't have a functioning opposition.
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Do you want to think that through, Mr. Meeks? Is a story only huge when there is someone there to, for their own political advantage, big it up. I should have thought, even hoped, that a story is huge because it is a huge story not because someone wants to make it so for their own benefit.AlastairMeeks said:This should be a huge story. But somehow it isn't when we don't have a functioning opposition.
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Indeed, fair to say he was no saintTOPPING said:0 -
A good thing that this nasty piece of work is no longer the candidate for Tooting, as this must be a likely Con gain in the by-election if Sadiq Khan wins the mayor of London. Though if Zac wins then Richmond Park could be vulnerable too. Ironic that whichever party wins the mayor may be likely to lose the subsequent by-election.0
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Certainly prospects looking up in a way they have not for yearsSunil_Prasannan said:
Huzzah! We're well placed to win the Davis CupHYUFD said:Great Britain just beaten Belgium in the doubles
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HMG does and always has changed laws for some set of people as opposed to all people. Drug dealers for example. Or Pensioners. Or any other of dozens for groups if you care to think about it.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
Of course you can change the law for groups and indviduals. If the Govt changed the law on the seriously mentally ill, for example, then you'd get more of the help and drugs that you so obviously need.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.
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Monomania and delusions of expertise - a troublesome combination.GeoffM said:
Of course you can change the law for groups and indviduals. If the Govt changed the law on the seriously mentally ill, for example, then you'd get more of the help and drugs that you so obviously need.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
Oh bollocks, I have a fiver on Benn but if McTerrnan is predicting then Benn has no chance.HYUFD said:Daily Telegraph uses electoral calculus to forecast that if Labour lost Oldham West to UKIP a similar swing at the next election would push the party into third with UKIP becoming the main opposition on 102 seats with Labour on just 73 and the Tories on 388, even if it only lost half its majority that would still see Labour fall to 160 seats with UKIP on 10
In the same paper John Mcternan, a former Blair and Julia Gillard aide, backs Hilary Benn as Corbyn's replacement
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021977/Labour-MPs-have-only-one-option-a-mutiny.html0 -
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.0 -
Can't see any odds for it on Paddy Power or Ladbrokes but Andy Murray to win 2 gold medals in 2016 has to be a good bet when it starts to appear.
He will be in all three events, I fancy his chances with Heather Watson in the mixed to be much better than he wa with Eager Beaver in 2012 and they got the silver there. I'd also wonder if he and Jamie will take some time to practise ahead of the Olympics this time a the Bryans will be really getting on a bit.
Of course, he could also retain the Singles and end up with three which complicates matter somewhat.0 -
He was intimating that I'd excuse this atrocity by IS and blame it on Assad. Which is about as far from my view as it's possible to get. It's not funny, and it is a bit sick.HurstLlama said:@Jossias_Jessop
"If you want to make 'jokes', please don't do it about such a serious issue."
Golly, if we are not to laugh at serious issues where would we be? One might almost say the ability to crack a joke whilst in the depths of existential problems is almost a hallmark of Englishness. Those that can't laugh at themselves and their situation, who cannot see the funny side of things, are the ones that end up causing disruption on the railways etc. as they seek a permanent solution to a temporary problem.0 -
Someone I was at school with hanged themselves after splitting up with their girlfriend and someone on my course at university also killed themselves but sadly anyone can commit suicide no matter how successful or confident they look on the outside no one can really know the inner turmoil withinSunil_Prasannan said:
One of my best friends at Uni took his own life, even though he was one of the most outgoing, funny blokes I ever knew. He was on a year-long work-placement at the time, had a pretty Spanish GF, so it was a terrible, terrible shock. He was the last person I would have thought it would happened to. I wasn't at the party in question, but he apparently hanged himself after attending a Christmas bash. No one really knew why. Most sad.Plato_Says said:In my limited experience, I've known three suicides - often very deliberate points are made by the person involved.
1. Terribly henpecked husband hung himself from the banisters so his wife would see him when she walked in the front door. She never returned to the house.
2. Hung herself in memory of her father's suicide in the same spot in the garage.
The 3. shot himself in the head upstairs whilst his wife and small kids were eating breakfast.JosiasJessop said:
Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind his front door with a message something like: "Police only past this point."Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).
That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
As much as I'm hurt by his suicide, I do quite admire (*) the clarity and focus of mind he had to do that. And the death was, by all accounts, peaceful and non-gory.
Unlike someone I know, who had to de-retire from the city when his hand-picked replacement committed suicide. One Sunday, whilst his wife was cooking dinner, he hung himself from a tree in the garden, within view of the kitchen and house. His wife and teenage kids found his body.
(*) I'm not sure that's the right word.0 -
The day that he thought he was an Admiral was truly frightening for a casual observer.Plato_Says said:Monomania and delusions of expertise - a troublesome combination.
GeoffM said:
Of course you can change the law for groups and indviduals. If the Govt changed the law on the seriously mentally ill, for example, then you'd get more of the help and drugs that you so obviously need.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
It does though show that he is getting support from all wings of the partyAlistair said:
Oh bollocks, I have a fiver on Benn but if McTerrnan is predicting then Benn has no chance.HYUFD said:Daily Telegraph uses electoral calculus to forecast that if Labour lost Oldham West to UKIP a similar swing at the next election would push the party into third with UKIP becoming the main opposition on 102 seats with Labour on just 73 and the Tories on 388, even if it only lost half its majority that would still see Labour fall to 160 seats with UKIP on 10
In the same paper John Mcternan, a former Blair and Julia Gillard aide, backs Hilary Benn as Corbyn's replacement
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021977/Labour-MPs-have-only-one-option-a-mutiny.html0 -
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.0 -
Meh, pointless discussion when people are being deliberately obtuse.GeoffM said:
Of course you can change the law for groups and indviduals. If the Govt changed the law on the seriously mentally ill, for example, then you'd get more of the help and drugs that you so obviously need.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
I really don't think the response from PB comments would be so quiet in the case of a resignation from any other political party. Look, a tennisball.0
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Betting Post
F1: Abu Dhabi pre-race:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/abu-dhabi-pre-race.html
Backed Perez for a podium at 5. I think it'll likely be between him and Raikkonen, and those odds are too long. It's perhaps odds against, but I think 2.5-3 are the true odds.0 -
Well said. Friend of mine - beautiful, warm lady married her childhood sweetheart - and he killed himself at 23. She didn't see it coming and never forgave herself. Being a widow in her 20s was a terrible social stigma too.
He kept his demons to himself. I don't think for a minute he wanted to hurt her, if anything hiding it was to protect her, very sadHYUFD said:
Someone I was at school with hanged themselves after splitting up with their girlfriend and someone on my course at university also killed themselves but sadly anyone can commit suicide no matter how successful or confident they look on the outside no one can really know the inner turmoil withinSunil_Prasannan said:
One of my best friends at Uni took his own life, even though he was one of the most outgoing, funny blokes I ever knew. He was on a year-long work-placement at the time, had a pretty Spanish GF, so it was a terrible, terrible shock. He was the last person I would have thought it would happened to. I wasn't at the party in question, but he apparently hanged himself after attending a Christmas bash. No one really knew why. Most sad.Plato_Says said:In my limited experience, I've known three suicides - often very deliberate points are made by the person involved.
1. Terribly henpecked husband hung himself from the banisters so his wife would see him when she walked in the front door. She never returned to the house.
2. Hung herself in memory of her father's suicide in the same spot in the garage.
The 3. shot himself in the head upstairs whilst his wife and small kids were eating breakfast.JosiasJessop said:
Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind his front door with a message something like: "Police only past this point."Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).
That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
As much as I'm hurt by his suicide, I do quite admire (*) the clarity and focus of mind he had to do that. And the death was, by all accounts, peaceful and non-gory.
Unlike someone I know, who had to de-retire from the city when his hand-picked replacement committed suicide. One Sunday, whilst his wife was cooking dinner, he hung himself from a tree in the garden, within view of the kitchen and house. His wife and teenage kids found his body.
(*) I'm not sure that's the right word.0 -
Do you think that there might not be a realistic chance that at least one of the Mercedes (who have had mechanical issues all year) might not finish and that the 33/1 on Perez to win might be even better value? I'm thinking about an each way bet on Perez.Morris_Dancer said:Betting Post
F1: Abu Dhabi pre-race:
http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/abu-dhabi-pre-race.html
Backed Perez for a podium at 5. I think it'll likely be between him and Raikkonen, and those odds are too long. It's perhaps odds against, but I think 2.5-3 are the true odds.0 -
The political question is whether Feldman hanging on as Chairman will damage Cameron? That depends on how much Feldman can be tied into the dysfunction in the party around Clarke. Feldman is clearly not in the Lord Carrington class of resigners and would have to be forced out.0
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I think it's hard to make too much political capital out of it at the moment because of Labour's turmoils and the fact the story involves a young man's suicide.EPG said:I really don't think the response from PB comments would be so quiet in the case of a resignation from any other political party. Look, a tennisball.
However the story probably has very long legs. If I were Labour, I would direct it away from the suicide and towards Conservative structures (in the same way the Rennard scandal to an extent became less about his deeds, and more about the Lib Dem structures).0 -
Miss Plato, aye, that often seems the way. More women actually try to commit suicide, but they tend to do it in ways that mean they can be caught or stopped. Men are more likely to actually either go through with it rather than backing away, or to do it in a way that's harder to prevent.0
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Mr. Dair, the Mercedes have been very solid on reliability this year. It'd be a brave (possibly inspired) bet on Perez to win.
The problem he might face is if he goes for a cunning one stop, and it proves impossible, has to have a late second stop and ends up well down the grid. That, and Raikkonen might just be faster than him.0 -
The Beeb thinks there is no other news in the world. For several hours the Beeb's news strapline has featured ONLY the story about Shapps.LadyBucket said:"Could this take the media pressure off Mr Corbyn?" - in a word, NO. There's much more to come for Mr Corbyn I'm afraid.
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Acquaintance of mine has worked in A&E psychiatry for a decade or so - he defines it as talkers and jumpers - those who want to be rescued vs those who've made up their minds and want out.Morris_Dancer said:
Miss Plato, aye, that often seems the way. More women actually try to commit suicide, but they tend to do it in ways that mean they can be caught or stopped. Men are more likely to actually either go through with it rather than backing away, or to do it in a way that's harder to prevent.
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Down, not across, if you're serious.Plato_Says said:Acquaintance of mine has worked in A&E psychiatry for a decade or so - he defines it as talkers and jumpers - those who want to be rescued vs those who've made up their minds and want out.
Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, aye, that often seems the way. More women actually try to commit suicide, but they tend to do it in ways that mean they can be caught or stopped. Men are more likely to actually either go through with it rather than backing away, or to do it in a way that's harder to prevent.
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Don't let your natural ingrained politeness keep you here if you've got other things to do.Dair said:
Meh, pointless discussion when people are being deliberately obtuse.GeoffM said:
Of course you can change the law for groups and indviduals. If the Govt changed the law on the seriously mentally ill, for example, then you'd get more of the help and drugs that you so obviously need.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.0 -
Only the Tories under Cameron could shoot themselves in the foot when labour were taking a beating in the press and media.
0 -
The question is whether it reaches Feldman or beyond. If it's just Shapps, it's a 24-hour story.0
-
Indeed and men do tend to have a higher rate of suicide than women as they do not discuss their feelings and concerns with others as muchPlato_Says said:Well said. Friend of mine - beautiful, warm lady married her childhood sweetheart - and he killed himself at 23. She didn't see it coming and never forgave herself. Being a widow in her 20s was a terrible social stigma too.
He kept his demons to himself. I don't think for a minute he wanted to hurt her, if anything hiding it was to protect her, very sadHYUFD said:
Someone I was at school with hanged themselves after splitting up with their girlfriend and someone on my course at university also killed themselves but sadly anyone can commit suicide no matter how successful or confident they look on the outside no one can really know the inner turmoil withinSunil_Prasannan said:
One of my best friends at Uni took his own life, even though he was one of the most outgoing, funny blokes I ever knew. He was on a year-long work-placement at the time, had a pretty Spanish GF, so it was a terrible, terrible shock. He was the last person I would have thought it would happened to. I wasn't at the party in question, but he apparently hanged himself after attending a Christmas bash. No one really knew why. Most sad.Plato_Says said:In my limited experience, I've known three suicides - often very deliberate points are made by the person involved.
1. Terribly henpecked husband hung himself from the banisters so his wife would see him when she walked in the front door. She never returned to the house.
2. Hung herself in memory of her father's suicide in the same spot in the garage.
The 3. shot himself in the head upstairs whilst his wife and small kids were eating breakfast.JosiasJessop said:
Our friend, who committed suicide a few years back after many years / decades of periodic depression, seems to have made it a priority to 'hurt' as few people as possible. I won't go into how he did it, but it was in his front room. He erected a wall of cardboard boxes behind hMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, a fair point (likewise those who hurl themselves in front of buses and the like).
That said, those committing suicide are rarely the soundest of mind.
(*) I'm not sure that's the right word.0 -
FFS
Ealing MPS
Police called to a distressed female who's child had been called a name by another young child. Advice provided.0 -
All it takes is one victim to come forward with a copy of an email sent to him and his position becomes untenable.TCPoliticalBetting said:The political question is whether Feldman hanging on as Chairman will damage Cameron? That depends on how much Feldman can be tied into the dysfunction in the party around Clarke. Feldman is clearly not in the Lord Carrington class of resigners and would have to be forced out.
0 -
Surely banana curvature is in urgent need of regulation?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
We just need a picture of David Miliband holding up a curved candle now to make this story beyond parody.0 -
Yes you can. Actually, *who* implements the rules is important. If the govt tries to do it via some statutory instrument then there may be a legal case for discrimination. On the other hand, if it's a full Act of Parliament then there's no recourse to the courts: you can't use one piece of primary legislation to judge the validity of another. All the courts can say is that two pieces of legislation are in conflict; it's down to parliament to resolve that conflict. (and in any case, parliament has passed laws affecting 'arbitrary' groups of people differently innumerable times in the past).Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.0 -
''Only the Tories under Cameron could shoot themselves in the foot when labour were taking a beating in the press and media.''
Charles Moore said today that the smug grins of Camborne after the autumn statement almost made him want to vote labour.
A year from now, many tories will feel that way.
0 -
Quite. It should be 'whose'. Obviously.Plato_Says said:FFS
Ealing MPS
Police called to a distressed female who's child had been called a name by another young child. Advice provided.0 -
Oh come off it! Under normal circumstances maybe but since Labour are taking a beating 24/7 under Corbyn it would take whiter than white angelic perfection not to ever have a negative story while Corbyn's Labour are taking a beating.Tykejohnno said:Only the Tories under Cameron could shoot themselves in the foot when labour were taking a beating in the press and media.
0 -
So you have no interest, whatsoever on the level of contaminants in the produce you eat and feed your family?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
Well fair enough. But I prefer not to live in the Victorian era when milk was regularly contaminated with toxic lead to make it look more creamy (and therefore higher quality).0 -
Anyone But Corbyn will though. There must be Lefties finally thinking "this has been a sub-optimal experiment...."HYUFD said:
It does though show that he is getting support from all wings of the partyAlistair said:
Oh bollocks, I have a fiver on Benn but if McTerrnan is predicting then Benn has no chance.HYUFD said:Daily Telegraph uses electoral calculus to forecast that if Labour lost Oldham West to UKIP a similar swing at the next election would push the party into third with UKIP becoming the main opposition on 102 seats with Labour on just 73 and the Tories on 388, even if it only lost half its majority that would still see Labour fall to 160 seats with UKIP on 10
In the same paper John Mcternan, a former Blair and Julia Gillard aide, backs Hilary Benn as Corbyn's replacement
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12021977/Labour-MPs-have-only-one-option-a-mutiny.html0 -
If you actually read what I wrote you will notice that I allowed for regulation for public health reasons. I will see if I can get Google Translate to render it into Scots for you.Dair said:
So you have no interest, whatsoever on the level of contaminants in the produce you eat and feed your family?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
Well fair enough. But I prefer not to live in the Victorian era when milk was regularly contaminated with toxic lead to make it look more creamy (and therefore higher quality).0 -
Perhaps the Advice Provided was "Get a grip of yourself, you pointless cloud of weirdo"?Plato_Says said:FFS
Ealing MPS
Police called to a distressed female who's child had been called a name by another young child. Advice provided.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuromythGeoffM said:
Surely banana curvature is in urgent need of regulation?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
We just need a picture of David Miliband holding up a curved candle now to make this story beyond parody.
Typical Kipper nonsense.
The ironic thing, is that what the EU regulates and the form this regulation takes is entirely accountable to the European Parliament. One of the biggest problems for the UK Is that her current European Parliamentary representation is dominated by a group of MEPs who have no interest in participating with the day to day running of the EU nor have any interest in representing the UK's interest within that parliament.
Put simply, if you want better regulation within the EU, vote for better reprentatives than Kippers.0 -
When my mother was in her late twenties and after she had divorced my father (itself damned near impossible in the early sixties) she began a serious relationship with a very promising concert pianist. He proposed to her, but wary of her earlier experience of marriage, she said she wasn't ready for that yet.Plato_Says said:Well said. Friend of mine - beautiful, warm lady married her childhood sweetheart - and he killed himself at 23. She didn't see it coming and never forgave herself.
He went home and shot himself.
Nobody saw that coming.0 -
Totally wrong and just plain ignorant.Dair said:
They can change laws for everyone.david_herdson said:
Parliament can change laws as it sees fit. Otherwise I'll have my state pension at 65, thank you very much.Dair said:
Did he change a benefit so new applicants were disadvantaged compred to existing claimants?Pulpstar said:
Noone successfully sued Gordon Brown iirc...Dair said:
Out of interest.Pulpstar said:
Osborne has learnt the golden rule of cuts methinks:Philip_Thompson said:Someone posted the other day that Thatcher over her decade in office reduced the state as a proportion of GDP by 6.8% while Osborne after five years has reduced it by 6% already. At this rate I'd expect Osborne to beat Thatchers record without being seen as to the right of Thatcher.
Mr & Mrs Smith with their 3 kids currently receive 3 big bag of sweets courtesy of Gordon B.
Osborne wanted to take away 2 bags of sweets, but the Smiths kicked up such a rumpus to their local MP, Tory A (Whose vote Osborne needs to win the leadership election) that he decided it wasn't worth his while.
So Mr and Mrs Junior Jones who will be having 3 kids by 2019 will however be getting half a bag of sweets courtesy of IDS. They won't have splashed out on the 55" TV that Mr & Smith will have done.
Long term obviously there is far more Junior Jones than Smiths. Hence the finances get in order.
What happens when Mr and Mrs Junior Jones and their do-gooder lawyer decide to sue the government over a policy whereby, despite identical situation, they get less support from the government.
I'm not sure the government can be so confident this plan will work.
But specific discrimination is going to run into legal problems, I suspect. For example, clearly those on the lower rate will be younger. Age Discrimination laws could be applied.
You can change the law for everyone. You can't change the law for some arbitrary set of people.
The principle of changing a law for new claimants while maintaining it for established ones is perfectly legal and common place. It's commonly called grandfathering and can be done and seen in multiple arenas.
Incidentally it doesn't apply to age since the claim isn't age related. A 19 year old mother of three could already be claiming and her claim would be maintained while a 35 year old who has a third child in three years time would be unable to do so based not on age but the new law. Furthermore if someone currently claiming stops claiming for some reason then wanted to make a new claim under the new rules years down the line then the new rules would rightly apply.0 -
I think it's the Special Snowflake Squad's mission statement.GeoffM said:
Perhaps the Advice Provided was "Get a grip of yourself, you pointless cloud of weirdo"?Plato_Says said:FFS
Ealing MPS
Police called to a distressed female who's child had been called a name by another young child. Advice provided.0 -
@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.0 -
If you don't want different quality classes for produce (which is what you are objecting to) then you should elect MEPs who will abolish quality classes.JohnLilburne said:
If you actually read what I wrote you will notice that I allowed for regulation for public health reasons. I will see if I can get Google Translate to render it into Scots for you.Dair said:
So you have no interest, whatsoever on the level of contaminants in the produce you eat and feed your family?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
Well fair enough. But I prefer not to live in the Victorian era when milk was regularly contaminated with toxic lead to make it look more creamy (and therefore higher quality).
0 -
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.Dair said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuromythGeoffM said:
Surely banana curvature is in urgent need of regulation?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
We just need a picture of David Miliband holding up a curved candle now to make this story beyond parody.
Typical Kipper nonsense.
The ironic thing, is that what the EU regulates and the form this regulation takes is entirely accountable to the European Parliament. One of the biggest problems for the UK Is that her current European Parliamentary representation is dominated by a group of MEPs who have no interest in participating with the day to day running of the EU nor have any interest in representing the UK's interest within that parliament.
Put simply, if you want better regulation within the EU, vote for better reprentatives than Kippers.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.0 -
That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in yearsJohnLilburne said:
@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.0 -
As long as Corbyn and his mates lead Labour and NickP and his fellow members remain perfectly happy - delighted, in fact - to have apologists for terrorism and murder in charge of their party there is literally nothing the Tories can say or do that will lead to them losing power. It is increasingly clear that this is not going to be good for either the country or the Tories. Without a competent opposition it is much harder to get good government.0
-
I would suggest your mother dodged a bullet even if her suitor didn't.MarqueeMark said:
When my mother was in her late twenties and after she had divorced my father (itself damned near impossible in the early sixties) she began a serious relationship with a very promising concert pianist. He proposed to her, but wary of her earlier experience of marriage, she said she wasn't ready for that yet.Plato_Says said:Well said. Friend of mine - beautiful, warm lady married her childhood sweetheart - and he killed himself at 23. She didn't see it coming and never forgave herself.
He went home and shot himself.
Nobody saw that coming.
0 -
You seem to be incapable of distinguishing between regulations and classifications.JohnLilburne said:@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.
For example, with the banana myth, any shape of banana can be sold but only bananas which fit into set standards can be sold as Class II or Class I bananas.
The ignorance, is all yours.0 -
Corbyn hasn't got to 100 Days yet either.SouthamObserver said:
As long as Corbyn and his mates lead Labour and NickP and his fellow members remain perfectly happy - delighted, in fact - to have apologists for terrorism and murder in charge of their party there is literally nothing the Tories can say or do that will lead to them losing power. It is increasingly clear that this is not going to be good for either the country or the Tories. Without a competent opposition it is much harder to get good government.
0 -
You may find this helps:JohnLilburne said:
If you actually read what I wrote you will notice that I allowed for regulation for public health reasons. I will see if I can get Google Translate to render it into Scots for you.Dair said:
So you have no interest, whatsoever on the level of contaminants in the produce you eat and feed your family?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
Well fair enough. But I prefer not to live in the Victorian era when milk was regularly contaminated with toxic lead to make it look more creamy (and therefore higher quality).
http://www.whoohoo.co.uk/scottish-translator.asp0 -
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.Dair said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EuromythGeoffM said:
Surely banana curvature is in urgent need of regulation?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
We just need a picture of David Miliband holding up a curved candle now to make this story beyond parody.
Typical Kipper nonsense.
The ironic thing, is that what the EU regulates and the form this regulation takes is entirely accountable to the European Parliament. One of the biggest problems for the UK Is that her current European Parliamentary representation is dominated by a group of MEPs who have no interest in participating with the day to day running of the EU nor have any interest in representing the UK's interest within that parliament.
Put simply, if you want better regulation within the EU, vote for better reprentatives than Kippers.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.0 -
*applause*JohnLilburne said:@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.0 -
Or in Geordie http://www.whoohoo.co.uk/main.asp
But thor's nar na nee't fo' standards fo' most cheap goods othor than public health. fo' example, wot varieties iv fryeut an' veg ma be sold. nar na nee't fo' regulation at aaal. see the eu-wide standard in sich cases shud be, yee gan sell wot yee leek.
GeoffM said:
You may find this helps:JohnLilburne said:
If you actually read what I wrote you will notice that I allowed for regulation for public health reasons. I will see if I can get Google Translate to render it into Scots for you.Dair said:
So you have no interest, whatsoever on the level of contaminants in the produce you eat and feed your family?JohnLilburne said:
But there is no need for standards for most cheap goods other than public health. For example, what varieties of fruit and veg may be sold. No need for regulation at all. So the EU-wide standard in such cases should be, you can sell what you like.Dair said:
Assuming its not been made so cheaply that it spurts live flame and starts a fire killing you and your family and therefore precluding you from making a different purchase decision next time.JohnLilburne said:
Candles are cheap. If you buy a crap one, you'll buy a different brand next time.Dair said:
So you believe there should be no standards for goods and services provided to the population?MikeK said:Just me letting in a little light on the subject:
twitter.com/DICS131294/status/670641254804398080
Idiot. Only a Kipper could find this sort of thing remotely strange.
The EU sets the standards for goods across the EU. This is agreed and sensible as it is cheaper than each country doing the whole thing themselves (except for those country that moronically maintain a relatively substantial Standard Institute themselves - such as, oh, the UK).
Every time one of these moron headlines appears it is a great way to spot the absolute lunatics who find it unacceptable that standards are required for products.
Well fair enough. But I prefer not to live in the Victorian era when milk was regularly contaminated with toxic lead to make it look more creamy (and therefore higher quality).
http://www.whoohoo.co.uk/scottish-translator.asp0 -
Did I mention bananas? No. Although I don't understand why the EU needs to "classify" them, the purchaser can decide what is acceptable.Dair said:
You seem to be incapable of distinguishing between regulations and classifications.JohnLilburne said:@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.
For example, with the banana myth, any shape of banana can be sold but only bananas which fit into set standards can be sold as Class II or Class I bananas.
The ignorance, is all yours.
What I mentioned was fruit and veg varieties. The EU determines, for no known reason, that certain varieties v(mostly heritage varieties) of fruit and veg cannot be sold commercially.0 -
Mr W,
"I would suggest your mother dodged a bullet even if her suitor didn't."
Extremely bad taste but very funny. People are too soft nowadays.0 -
These sorts of stories are very rarely a big deal politically. They are real Westminster bubble stories. Quite rightly, the public recognise that any largish organisation is going to have things like this happen from time to time, and takes little notice. In this particular case, no-one has actually heard of the alleged perpetrator, so it's even less important than some of the other cases we've seen in recent years.
And, no, I am not saying this because it happens to be the Conservatives involved. What effect did any of the following have on public perceptions of parties or their electoral appeal?
- Chris Huhne
- Lord Rennard
- The various ex-Labour MPs who went to jail in the last parliament
- Andy Coulson
- Eric Joyce
- Phil Woolas
I would say no discernible effect at all.0 -
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
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No the EU do not. There is no bar on particular varieties from being sold. If such products are not commercially viable that is nothing to do with the EU, purely the nature of the market.JohnLilburne said:
Did I mention bananas? No. Although I don't understand why the EU needs to "classify" them, the purchaser can decide what is acceptable.Dair said:
You seem to be incapable of distinguishing between regulations and classifications.JohnLilburne said:@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.
For example, with the banana myth, any shape of banana can be sold but only bananas which fit into set standards can be sold as Class II or Class I bananas.
The ignorance, is all yours.
What I mentioned was fruit and veg varieties. The EU determines, for no known reason, that certain varieties v(mostly heritage varieties) of fruit and veg cannot be sold commercially.0 -
Just added Vardy at 40s E/W 1-3 (1/5) to the SPOTY portfolio...0
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Dear OGH you have said "apparent suicide". I don't think anybody is suggesting anything else.
On another note on this story this has more to run.
Am hearing the current chairmanship wife might have known a lot more than has been let on...0 -
In Patois www.jamaicantranslator.com/
eff yuh actually read wah mi write yuh wi notice dat mi allow fi regulation fi public health reasons mi wi si eff mi cya get Google Translate to renda it into Scots fi yuh
JohnLilburne said:
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
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It must be impossible for any country to survive outside of the EU.Dair said:
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.
Can anyone give me any examples of a county which exists outside of the EU?
I feel sorry for them with their grim life of semi-darkness illuminated only by bent candles.
They probably eat their own children to survive.
Curse the Outsiders ... with their powerful unregulated working vacuum cleaners and who are still allowed to dip bread in unlabeled olive oil dishes in tapas bars!0 -
Good job you didn't write 'all Nit posters' or else I'd have you down as just another petty Little Englander.JohnLilburne said:
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
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I think the damage is limited because he has gone. It would have been far more damaging to Schapps to have tried to tough it out. CCHQ told him he had to go and he went.
Move on.
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Where did I say it was impossible.GeoffM said:
It must be impossible for any country to survive outside of the EU.Dair said:
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.
Can anyone give me any examples of a county which exists outside of the EU?
I feel sorry for them with their grim life of semi-darkness illuminated only by bent candles.
They probably eat their own children to survive.
Curse the Outsiders ... with their powerful unregulated working vacuum cleaners and who are still allowed to dip bread in unlabeled olive oil dishes in tapas bars!
Just because your typical bigoted Outer crap has been caught out for the transparent nonsense it is, you try (weakly) to change the subject.
It is more expensive, that is all. It doesn't go away, it doesn't stop, all that happens is the entire cost is borne by the UK instead of being shared.0 -
Yes, life in Norway and Switzerland is hellGeoffM said:
It must be impossible for any country to survive outside of the EU.Dair said:
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.
Can anyone give me any examples of a county which exists outside of the EU?
I feel sorry for them with their grim life of semi-darkness illuminated only by bent candles.
They probably eat their own children to survive.
Curse the Outsiders ... with their powerful unregulated working vacuum cleaners and who are still allowed to dip bread in unlabeled olive oil dishes in tapas bars!0 -
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,Theuniondivvie said:
Good job you didn't write 'all Nit posters' or else I'd have you down as just another petty Little Englander.JohnLilburne said:
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
I've got a little list — I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!0 -
I'd agree with that. Whatever the merits or otherwise of the case, it'll be forgotten by Wednesday at the latest. That's not to say that other aspects might not drag on - and they should: from what I've heard there was an unhealthy culture within CF for too long - but it'll be page 22 stuff.SquareRoot said:I think the damage is limited because he has gone. It would have been far more damaging to Schapps to have tried to tough it out. CCHQ told him he had to go and he went.
Move on.0 -
Sticks and stones won't break my bones, but i's will always hurt me.GeoffM said:
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,Theuniondivvie said:
Good job you didn't write 'all Nit posters' or else I'd have you down as just another petty Little Englander.JohnLilburne said:
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
I've got a little list — I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!0 -
See http://ec.europa.eu/food/plant/plant_propagation_material/plant_variety_catalogues_databases/index_en.htm. It appears to say that varieties have to be registered (for which there is presumably a cost) which tends to suggest you can't sell unregistered varieties.Dair said:
No the EU do not. There is no bar on particular varieties from being sold. If such products are not commercially viable that is nothing to do with the EU, purely the nature of the market.JohnLilburne said:
Did I mention bananas? No. Although I don't understand why the EU needs to "classify" them, the purchaser can decide what is acceptable.Dair said:
You seem to be incapable of distinguishing between regulations and classifications.JohnLilburne said:@Dair
But thaur is nae need fur standards fur most hoddin goods other than public health. fur example, whit varieties ay fruit an' veg main be sauld. nae need fur regulation at aw. sae th' eu-wide standard in sic' cases shoods be, ye can seel whit ye loch.
For example, with the banana myth, any shape of banana can be sold but only bananas which fit into set standards can be sold as Class II or Class I bananas.
The ignorance, is all yours.
What I mentioned was fruit and veg varieties. The EU determines, for no known reason, that certain varieties v(mostly heritage varieties) of fruit and veg cannot be sold commercially.0 -
The entire cost of what?Dair said:
Where did I say it was impossible.GeoffM said:
It must be impossible for any country to survive outside of the EU.Dair said:
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.
Can anyone give me any examples of a county which exists outside of the EU?
I feel sorry for them with their grim life of semi-darkness illuminated only by bent candles.
They probably eat their own children to survive.
Curse the Outsiders ... with their powerful unregulated working vacuum cleaners and who are still allowed to dip bread in unlabeled olive oil dishes in tapas bars!
Just because your typical bigoted Outer crap has been caught out for the transparent nonsense it is, you try (weakly) to change the subject.
It is more expensive, that is all. It doesn't go away, it doesn't stop, all that happens is the entire cost is borne by the UK instead of being shared.0 -
Not sure he will be getting many votes from certain ethnic minority communities.Pulpstar said:Just added Vardy at 40s E/W 1-3 (1/5) to the SPOTY portfolio...
0 -
This is not a story about the Tories shooting themselves in the foot...they could blast both legs off at the knees and it would still be oversgadowed by the antics of the UK hater Corbyn and his SC0
-
Donald Trump speaking live at a big rally in Sarasota, Florida wearing a baseball cap and promising to 'terminate Obamacare!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ibbeGF0hxo0 -
Actually I meant to write "Nit" but I was apparently saved by the spellchecker. But at least you know who you are ;-)Theuniondivvie said:
Good job you didn't write 'all Nit posters' or else I'd have you down as just another petty Little Englander.JohnLilburne said:
See www.whoohoo.co.uk. I suggest it is used when communicating with all Nat posters on PB.Plato_Says said:That reminds me of @SeanT and his patois posts that were exceptionally funny, haven't seen one of them in years<</p>
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He just has to be deliberately trolling, I mean he has to...right?HYUFD said:Donald Trump speaking live at a big rally in Sarasota, Florida wearing a baseball cap and promising to 'terminate Obamacare!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ibbeGF0hxo0 -
Presumably the entire cost of the regulation... which isn't needed, so will cost nothing.GeoffM said:
The entire cost of what?Dair said:
Where did I say it was impossible.GeoffM said:
It must be impossible for any country to survive outside of the EU.Dair said:
It is absolutely certain that everything currently regulated and classified by the EU would still need to be regulated and classified by the UK. Of course, the UK would then be paying the entire cost of this standard framework instead of sharing it with 27 other member states.GeoffM said:
I don't want or care about "better" regulation within the EU. I want Out.
If the rest of the EU want to make regulations about bendy candles themselves ... go for it, lads.
Typical Kipper ignorance.
Can anyone give me any examples of a county which exists outside of the EU?
I feel sorry for them with their grim life of semi-darkness illuminated only by bent candles.
They probably eat their own children to survive.
Curse the Outsiders ... with their powerful unregulated working vacuum cleaners and who are still allowed to dip bread in unlabeled olive oil dishes in tapas bars!
Just because your typical bigoted Outer crap has been caught out for the transparent nonsense it is, you try (weakly) to change the subject.
It is more expensive, that is all. It doesn't go away, it doesn't stop, all that happens is the entire cost is borne by the UK instead of being shared.0 -
Donald Trump is a self parody!FrancisUrquhart said:
He just has to be deliberately trolling, I mean he has to...right?HYUFD said:Donald Trump speaking live at a big rally in Sarasota, Florida wearing a baseball cap and promising to 'terminate Obamacare!'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ibbeGF0hxo0 -
It depends what else emerges.SquareRoot said:I think the damage is limited because he has gone. It would have been far more damaging to Schapps to have tried to tough it out. CCHQ told him he had to go and he went.
Move on.0 -
Indeed. This is something that been has said over the decades. It's almost a cliché. But it is now being put to the test and is being shown to be true. It seems to be a necessary part of our system of government that when a voice inside a minister's head says, "You're going to look bloody stupid if this doesn't work" they actually stop and think "Hmm, hang on" rather than "lol, useless clown opposite won't do anything with it anyway."SouthamObserver said:Without a competent opposition it is much harder to get good government.
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