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SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited July 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Punters rate a CON majority a bit higher than a week ago

CON majority chances edge up a notch on Betfair. Was 20% last wk – now 23.3%. See table pic.twitter.com/IC5Vv8vQZZ

Read the full story here


Comments

  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    First!
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    FPT -

    Man on Fire on Film4 later.

    If you haven't seen it, make sure you do.

    As someone who has been totally underwhelmed by films this past 15 years, Man on Fire is one of the finest I've seen.

    Take my (slightly drunk) word for it. Hic.

    O/T - I think the Tories will won most seats at the next GE. Right now should be their mid-term nadir and they are, what, seven points behind? Even with the electoral arithmetic, I just don't think EdM has the juice.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Alastair Stewart @alstewitn
    .@itvnews at 10pm @lawrenceitv on the mosr dangerous , 'deadly' hospital in Wales - charged and convicted by its own surgeons.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    From South Shields gazette

    Spending in South Shields by-election

    Labour £81,688
    UKIP £47,704
    LD £6,302
    Con £5,292
    Ind Darwood £2,701.91
    Socialist £1,058.99
    MRLP £403
    BNP £399.99

    http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/revealed-the-cost-of-winning-and-losing-south-shields-by-election-1-5859924

  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Plato said:

    Alastair Stewart @alstewitn
    .@itvnews at 10pm @lawrenceitv on the mosr dangerous , 'deadly' hospital in Wales - charged and convicted by its own surgeons.

    I feel sorry for the staff at that hospital. It's so difficult.

    The wife and me had to go the maternity clinic there for our first ever pregnancy check up and the nurses were having to deal with pregnant women (and quite a few of them) who couldn't speak English and used their five or six year old children as translators. They were severely overrun.

    We transferred to Prince Charles Hospital after that and took our chances in Merthyr!

    Seriously though, all hospitals must be facing the same difficulties and it can't be easy. We all want a super-duper health service but we just don't have the money to pay for the perfect service everyone wants.

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    £33,485.61 out of £47,704 spent by UKIP is for Unsolicited materials. £7,467.55 for Advertising and £4,800 for Staff costs.

    Labour spent £48,786.88 in Staff, £25,293.64 in Unsolicited materials and £1,531.67 in Advertising.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB

    @OpiniumResearch say there are some "interesting movements" in their poll for Observer tomorrow: Last time it was C27/L38/LD6/Ukp19
    Well "interesting" does imply more than just a point or two either way and MOE stuff.
    I think most people are expecting the tory labour numbers narrowing and a UKIP drop.

    Unless of course the lib dems move off of their awesome 6 points to the dizzying heights of double figures and 10 or thereabouts. ;)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,735
    Why aren't there any probabilities for a LibDem majority, Mike?

    :)
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    FPT
    tim said:

    Tykejohnno said:

    tim said:

    @SkyNews: DAILY MAIL FRONT PAGE: 500,000 migrants get social housing #SkyPapers http://t.co/G31iodtnHq

    Looking forward to the PB Tories finest getting stuck into that data

    Not the data tim,the headline - the last decade.

    I wonder who was in charge for most of that last decade.


    The first rather obvious piece of bullshit propaganda I can spot in that is the Mail claiming that dem immigrants have been given taxpayer funded homes.
    They then appear to categorise housing associations as taxpayer funded homes.

    "Housing associations' day-to-day activities are funded by rent and service charges payments made by, or on behalf of, those living in its properties. In this sense, housing associations are run as commercial entities and the majority do not depend on donations for their general activities."


    Of course there may be a capital input, but as George Osborne is now subsidising migrants mortgages that is all comparitive.
    Housing Associations are not truly independent of government.

    In most cases the acquisition or construction of the housing association property is financed by grant or loan from local government or a national (devolved) public sector body (e.g. The Housing Corporation).

    Both the EU and the High Court have made rulings that, for specific purposes, Housing Associations should be treated as public sector bodies.

    The borrowing of Housing Associations from government sources currently exceeds £30 billion. The public sector contribution to Housing Association development in the period 2008-11 is estimated to be £8 bn.

    It is true that the political and legal momentum has been to move both funding and management of Housing Associations towards the private sector but this has been interrupted by the fallout from the financial crisis.

    To conclude, your argument that there is no public subsidy involved in housing tenants in Housing Association property is, in your own words, "bullshit propaganda".

  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    What do Agent/Staff costs include? Hotel accomodation for party staffs staying there during the campaign? Foods at the campaign HQ? Train tickets for activists coming in?
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    edited July 2013
    tim said:

    Fenster said:

    Plato said:

    Alastair Stewart @alstewitn
    .@itvnews at 10pm @lawrenceitv on the mosr dangerous , 'deadly' hospital in Wales - charged and convicted by its own surgeons.

    I feel sorry for the staff at that hospital. It's so difficult.

    The wife and me had to go the maternity clinic there for our first ever pregnancy check up and the nurses were having to deal with pregnant women (and quite a few of them) who couldn't speak English and used their five or six year old children as translators. They were severely overrun.

    We transferred to Prince Charles Hospital after that and took our chances in Merthyr!

    Seriously though, all hospitals must be facing the same difficulties and it can't be easy. We all want a super-duper health service but we just don't have the money to pay for the perfect service everyone wants.

    The waiting lists issue there is a reminder of what the NHS was like in England pre 1997

    Between 2000 and 2008, the NHS was rightly focused on rebuilding capacity and improving access after decades of neglect. The key issue was not whether people were dying in our hospitals avoidably, but that they were dying whilst waiting for treatment.

    http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/bruce-keogh-review/Documents/outcomes/keogh-review-final-report.pdf
    It was 2008!

    Tragic stories about the NHS are only going to mount over the next 10 years. The service (even if improved) will never satisfy the growing demand. At some point there will need to be a political consensus about what to do with it. Seriously difficult decisions will need to be made. Perhaps an NHS tax. Who knows?

  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Keep in mind that the exciting polls are no more likely to be accurate than the boring ones. The latest Populous poll has Labour leading by 7%, unchanged.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Top performer on Jeremys friends and family test at 88% is Sherwood Forest (on the list) FT.

    F&F test is hopeless everbody knows that except Dave & Jeremy
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Tories fooked the NHS before 1997. NHS getting worse fast post 2010. Everyone knows the Tories cannot be trusted on the NHS
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    Will Scobie selected by Labour for Thanet South.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    bigjohnowls said:

    Tories fooked the NHS before 1997. NHS getting worse fast post 2010. Everyone knows the Tories cannot be trusted on the NHS

    This must be a spoof. I know it is disallowed to speculate over a poster's real identity but are you Andy Burnham? Or Harold Shipman?

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    edited July 2013
    There must be some very late-night Labour selection meetings tonight in Burnley and Norfolk South.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    FPT:

    UKIP membership is currently about 30,000 not 20,000.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    Frank Dobson!!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    bigjohnowls said:

    Tories fooked the NHS before 1997. NHS getting worse fast post 2010. Everyone knows the Tories cannot be trusted on the NHS

    Have you thought about filling in for Henry G Manson here when he's on holiday? You share the same devotion to neutrality.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    A bit odd that Labour had to spend £80k in order to hold one of their safest seats in a by-election. You'd have thought that wouldn't have been necessary.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759

    Have you thought about filling in for Henry G Manson here when he's on holiday? You share the same devotion to neutrality.

    You can check what the waiting list period for knee replacements on the NHS were prior to 1997.You`ll find that it was 12 times what it is today.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    SMukesh said:


    Have you thought about filling in for Henry G Manson here when he's on holiday? You share the same devotion to neutrality.

    You can check what the waiting list period for knee replacements on the NHS were prior to 1997.You`ll find that it was 12 times what it is today.


    Quite right, SMukesh.

    Labour reduced the NHS to its knees.

  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    AveryLP

    Labour gave the NHS it`s knee replacements to stop it collapsing after it walked with creaking knees and shooting pains under Tory rule for 18 years
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Andy_JS said:

    A bit odd that Labour had to spend £80k in order to hold one of their safest seats in a by-election. You'd have thought that wouldn't have been necessary.

    Maybe Andrea can find the Eastleigh figures as I doubt the lib dems managed to win that on the cheap either.


  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Out for an early steak in Chicago tonight. But the lag is coming in waves - slow, slow, fast, fast, then slow again. Slow motion running in the sand, deadweight eyes. But steak in steaktown USA; m u s t s t a y a w a k e.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    I am SMukesh not Frank Dobson but both are right!!!!
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    bigjohnowls said:

    I am SMukesh not Frank Dobson but both are right!!!!

    Are you having some sort of odd Spartacus moment here?

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,966
    ok i am sober (not)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    edited July 2013
    Deborah Sacks selected for Labour in Norfolk South.

    Richard Bacon is the MP there.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    Mick_Pork said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A bit odd that Labour had to spend £80k in order to hold one of their safest seats in a by-election. You'd have thought that wouldn't have been necessary.

    Maybe Andrea can find the Eastleigh figures as I doubt the lib dems managed to win that on the cheap either.


    Not a great comparison: Eastleigh was a seat with a very small majority being defended by the LDs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    Unite is hoping their candidate, Julie Cooper, will win the Labour selection tonight in Burnley:

    http://www.burnleyexpress.net/news/local/all-female-shortlist-for-would-be-burnley-labour-mp-1-5847367
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    Oldham East was 97k spent by Labour and 94k by LD

    Labour spent 66k in Barnsley Central, 62k in Middlesbrough and 46,579.33 in Croydon North.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SMukesh said:


    Have you thought about filling in for Henry G Manson here when he's on holiday? You share the same devotion to neutrality.

    You can check what the waiting list period for knee replacements on the NHS were prior to 1997.You`ll find that it was 12 times what it is today.


    Does this have anything to do with the development of new arthroscopy techniques that dramatically reduced operating and recovery times for knee surgery?
  • RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited July 2013
    Fenster said:


    Tragic stories about the NHS are only going to mount over the next 10 years. The service (even if improved) will never satisfy the growing demand. At some point there will need to be a political consensus about what to do with it.

    Actually, there pretty much is. Clearly the only thing which will bring down costs whilst maintaining quality is to extend the use of private/third-sector providers in competition for NHS contracts, so that the service is free for patients (or as free as it currently is), but we get the benefits of competition amongst providers. This example is a good model (and very well regarded by patients who have been referred there):

    http://hordercentre.co.uk/

    Of course it's not a good model for everything, but it is for many things. Even Labour politicians, or at least the saner ones, realise this. Andy Burnham was Health Secretary when he stood for re-election on this platform:

    We will support an active role for the independent sector working alongside the NHS in the provision of care, particularly where they bring innovation – such as in end-of-life care and cancer services, and increase capacity.... Patients requiring elective care will have the right, in law, to choose from any provider who meets NHS standards of quality at NHS costs.

    http://www2.labour.org.uk/uploads/TheLabourPartyManifesto-2010.pdf

    Of course to get the real savings you need to introduce proper price competition as well, so I'm sure we'll see that. There is no other way.
  • SMukeshSMukesh Posts: 1,759
    @CHARLES
    Does this have anything to do with the development of new arthroscopy techniques that dramatically reduced operating and recovery times for knee surgery?

    1)Arthrosopy has nothing to do with knee surgery
    2)It`s a result of government initiatives insisting that NHS trusts complete surgical procedures within a few weeks (6 weeks in 2008) of patients going onto the lists.And the trusts are penalised financially if the waiting times are longer-the socalled target culture.

  • Stuart_DicksonStuart_Dickson Posts: 3,557
    'Scottish independence starts to hypnotise north east England'
    - Fearing a new economic 'tiger' over the border, a report urges council leaders in north east England to forge new alliances with Scotland as a counterweight to indifferent London
    ... in fact it is proof of Salmond's wider influence: this report is clear evidence that Scotland is now an alternative centre of power within the UK.

    ... Whitehall's neglect increases Scotland's comparative power and influence.

    Shaw is keen to warn that a new alliance between the Geordies and the Scots is no magic bullet for the north east's economic problems. The answer there still lies with Whitehall and Westminster, and with the north's own people, and with the proposition that England itself needs to be "rewired" to better serve all its regions.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/jul/26/scottish-independence-northeast-england
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    Quick analysis of the 100 Labour candidates selected so far:

    54 women
    11 EM
    8 incumbents
    11 previously MP for seat
    4 new candidate in constituency held by Labour
    6 previously unsuccessful candidate in constituency (excluding previous MPs for seat)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    "Packed house for the Erdington Parliamentary Selection tonight":

    https://twitter.com/ErdingtonTories
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    The Burnley Labour selection must be a close-run thing because there's no sign of the result yet:

    https://twitter.com/BurnleyLabour
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,710
    edited July 2013
    Charles said:

    SMukesh said:


    Have you thought about filling in for Henry G Manson here when he's on holiday? You share the same devotion to neutrality.

    You can check what the waiting list period for knee replacements on the NHS were prior to 1997.You`ll find that it was 12 times what it is today.
    Does this have anything to do with the development of new arthroscopy techniques that dramatically reduced operating and recovery times for knee surgery?


    Improved technology was the question I had as well.

    But as I have said about the NHS passim, it can be excellent if your illness can be categorised into areas they know and do many of (e.g. knee replacements). It is much more variable if your complaint does not fit neatly into the relevant categories.

    Like policing, if you want to massage the figures, throw loads of resources at the easy, common issues and try to forget about the harder ones.

    GP services have been a postcode lottery for years.
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    Stuart_Dickson said:

    'Scottish independence starts to hypnotise north east England'
    - Fearing a new economic 'tiger' over the border, a report urges council leaders in north east England to forge new alliances with Scotland as a counterweight to indifferent London

    ... in fact it is proof of Salmond's wider influence: this report is clear evidence that Scotland is now an alternative centre of power within the UK.

    ... Whitehall's neglect increases Scotland's comparative power and influence.

    Shaw is keen to warn that a new alliance between the Geordies and the Scots is no magic bullet for the north east's economic problems. The answer there still lies with Whitehall and Westminster, and with the north's own people, and with the proposition that England itself needs to be "rewired" to better serve all its regions.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/jul/26/scottish-independence-northeast-england


    Surely it would be a lion rather than a tiger economy across the border.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/david-allen-green/2011/06/global-economy-world-scotland
  • NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @AndyJS

    Do we know if Birtwistle will stand again in Burnley? He's getting on. I dont think it matters much anyway. Certain Labour gain.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SMukesh said:

    @CHARLES
    Does this have anything to do with the development of new arthroscopy techniques that dramatically reduced operating and recovery times for knee surgery?

    1)Arthrosopy has nothing to do with knee surgery
    2)It`s a result of government initiatives insisting that NHS trusts complete surgical procedures within a few weeks (6 weeks in 2008) of patients going onto the lists.And the trusts are penalised financially if the waiting times are longer-the socalled target culture.

    (1) I could write a long reply, but easier just to link to wiki:

    "Knee arthroscopy has in many cases replaced the classic arthrotomy that was performed in the past. Today knee arthroscopy is commonly performed for treating meniscus injury, reconstruction of the anterior cruciate ligament and for cartilage microfracturing. Arthroscopy can also be performed just for diagnosing and checking of the knee; however, the latter use has been mainly replaced by magnetic resonance imaging."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthroscopy#Knee_arthroscopy

    (2) Setting too many, too specific, targets is not the optimal way to manage healthcare outcomes.

    Can I just ask, how many years have you spent in the healthcare industry?
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited July 2013
    @Andy

    Confirmation of another Labour reselection tonight: Teresa Pearce in Erith. If you search it on twitter, look for Teresa Pearcce as the Labour candidate tweeting it misspelt her name
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    edited July 2013
    @Andrea

    Thanks. How did you know to search for the misspelt name? Just wondering...

    @Neil

    I don't think we know one way or the other regarding Gordon Birtwistle standing again in Burnley.

    I agree that Labour ought to win but on the other hand I gave Sarah Teather no chance of winning Brent Central in 2010.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    edited July 2013
    You would have thought Erith & Thamesmead Labour Party could have bothered to report it on their Twitter feed:

    https://twitter.com/E_TLabour
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    RichardNabavi said:

    Clearly the only thing which will bring down costs whilst maintaining quality is to extend the use of private/third-sector providers in competition for NHS contracts, so that the service is free for patients (or as free as it currently is), but we get the benefits of competition amongst providers.

    Clearly.
    New figures reveal weight of PFI burden on NHS trusts

    David Kingman explores some new figures which demonstrate the unsustainable burden private finance initiative (PFI) contracts are placing on a large number of NHS trusts

    The controversy over PFI deals in the NHS shows no sign of dying down, according to recently released figures. These show that the total bill for PFI repayments has increased by nearly £200 million in just two years, from £459 million in 2009/10 to £628.7 million in 2011/12 (these amounts only apply to NHS trusts in England).

    The figures, which were released as part of a new report by the healthcare think tank the Nuffield Trust, showed that PFI repayments have risen by an average of 18% a year over the last two years.

    a useful guide to PFI schemes and the problems which are associated with them

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8779598/Private-Finance-Initiative-where-did-all-go-wrong.html

    To summarize, PFI deals have become problematic for three major reasons: they usually have very high interest rates, they impose much higher debts upon the taxpayer than the actual value of the infrastructure they originally helped to build (in 2011 the taxpayer owed £121.4 billion to pay for infrastructure which was only valued at £52.9 billion) and they often include expensive maintenance and service contracts which charge the public purse vastly inflated fees for performing simple tasks (one PFI hospital was apparently charged £333 to have a new light bulb installed under the terms of their maintenance contract, for example).

    As PFI repayments come out of hospital budgets, they also divert money away from other services which the hospital could be providing, and can lead to redundancies, ward closures and the loss of departments if resources are spread too thinly. This is especially difficult in an era when most NHS trusts are facing squeezed budgets anyway, because of rising demand for services.

    http://www.if.org.uk/archives/3453/new-figures-reveal-weight-of-pfi-burden-on-nhs-trusts


  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    (From Previous Thread, OT)

    Why do these moronic journalists so often refer to "a baby with two heads" in cases like this?
    http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/07/26/two-headed-baby-born-in-india/?icid=maing-grid7|uk|dl8|sec1_lnk2&pLid=197179&a_dgi=aolshare_facebook
    They are conjoined twins. Two heads equals two people. It's not rocket science.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,531
    This is incredible!

    The Scotsman - Back to work for police chief Mauger on £300k leave
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    @Andy

    I think I was searching for "Labour candidate" in twitter search function hoping to find something about Burnley and "Congratulations to Teresa Pearcce MP [Mama T] on her confirmation as the Labour Candidate for Erith & Thamesmead CLP for 2015 Election" came out.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    JohnLoony said:

    (From Previous Thread, OT)

    Why do these moronic journalists so often refer to "a baby with two heads" in cases like this?
    http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2013/07/26/two-headed-baby-born-in-india/?icid=maing-grid7|uk|dl8|sec1_lnk2&pLid=197179&a_dgi=aolshare_facebook
    They are conjoined twins. Two heads equals two people. It's not rocket science.

    I'm not sure that "Kelly Rose Bradford" could be described as a "journalist" except maybe in her own head. Shes "a regular contributor to the Daily Mail, the Daily Express" which says it all. The comments section, probably.

    And quite what her site "parentdish" is, Heaven only knows. I suspect that I've made my one and only visit there.

    I notice, though, that I'm one of a decreasing minority who still say Siamese Twins. Is there a PC-speak memo that I've missed?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,760
    RichardNabavi said:

    Clearly the only thing which will bring down costs whilst maintaining quality is to extend the use of private/third-sector providers in competition for NHS contracts, so that the service is free for patients (or as free as it currently is), but we get the benefits of competition amongst providers... There is no other way.

    The ONLY thing that could do it. There are no other possibilities. Jesus.

    How do you get into this on-message state of consciousness that blocks out pretty much everything in the world? Is meditation involved?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,189
    edited July 2013
    LD membership in December 2012 was 42,501.

    UKIP membership reached 30,000 a few weeks ago.

    Although the dates aren't compatible with each other, if you assume they are then that's a difference of on average about 20 members per each of the 633 British constituencies.

    I'll repeat that: on average just 20 members per GB constituency difference.

    That obviously means if on average each GB constituency has an increase of 10 UKIP members and each GB constituency has a decrease of 10 LD members they'd have the same membership overall.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Mick_Pork said:



    New figures reveal weight of PFI burden on NHS trusts

    David Kingman explores some new figures which demonstrate the unsustainable burden private finance initiative (PFI) contracts are placing on a large number of NHS trusts

    This is a particularly toxic legacy that Brown has left us with.

    He was a believer in trying to disguise the reality of what he was doing from the public and the markets. If only he had had the courage to stand up and say 'I believe in spending X on the NHS and will tax/borrow more to do it'.

    Instead he took a useful, but limited, financing tool, PFI, and stretched it far beyond what it was designed for. PFI works for infrastructure with simple and predictable revenue streams and simple and predictable maintenance requirements. Stuff like railways and utilities. It's a little more expensive than direct government borrowing, but has advantages in that you can tap alternative sources of capital.

    It wasn't designed for complex operating facilities which need to be highly flexible to meet changing needs over even a 5-10 year period, let along 25+ years. PFI was absolutely the wrong tool to use for schools and hospitals.

    But they let Brown rob our children while pretending he was spending less than he actually was.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edmundintokyo said:

    RichardNabavi said:

    Clearly the only thing which will bring down costs whilst maintaining quality is to extend the use of private/third-sector providers in competition for NHS contracts, so that the service is free for patients (or as free as it currently is), but we get the benefits of competition amongst providers... There is no other way.

    The ONLY thing that could do it. There are no other possibilities. Jesus.

    How do you get into this on-message state of consciousness that blocks out pretty much everything in the world? Is meditation involved?
    More like medication ! Or, washing the brain with some right wing chemical ?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    surbiton said:


    More like medication ! Or, washing the brain with some right wing chemical ?

    What are your views on Brown's use of PFI?
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    surbiton said:

    More like medication ! Or, washing the brain with some right wing chemical ?

    A right-wing chemical for soaking your brain in?
    Now *that's* something which should be available free on the NHS for the benefit of the nation.

  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    can't post on new thread: error message discussionID is required
This discussion has been closed.

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