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There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.0 -
Robert, if not free they are very heavily subsidised so are close to free and if you count in the nightly meal allowance I am sure it will be as near to free as dammit.rcs1000 said:
I don't believe the restaurants and bars are free.malcolmg said:
When they are not on their 20 odd weeks holidays they start late and spend most of their time in the free bars and restaurants. You ever seen a debate outside of PMQ's , it is like a graveyard in the chamber. If it went by hours productive working they will be amongst the highest rewarded in the country for the worst possible output. Unless you are on a different planet , at least 97% of the public earn a fraction of what MP's earn for being on holiday or troughingFenster said:Probably because MPs pay is crap.
Would you work the hours, carry the responsbility and be away from home as much as they have to be for £66k a year? Plus they are forced to live siuch puritan lifestyles by the media.
I can outdo that working from home most of the time and living like Keith Richards on the weekends, with hardly any responsibility at all.
I'd never, ever, ever be an MP (not that I would be accepted as one). I quite admire their willingness to forego decent money by dint of their desire to perform public service.0 -
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.0 -
City Unslicker is an occasional poster here as @BillQuangoMP - this had me LOL. http://www.cityunslicker.com/2013/07/miliband-reviews-labours-historic-links.html - what Private Eye used to be.
"Ed Miliband has explicitly ruled out breaking Labour's historic links with the BBC, saying he wants to "mend not end" the relationship while giving individual watching people more of a role in choosing what’s on TV. After a week in which allegations of policy-rigging by Labour's largest backer, The BBC, Miliband says the millions of hard watching people viewing Strictly Come Dancing are the party's "biggest asset".
Hinting that he is looking at ways to involve them more he said "What both people in the Labour party and the BBC understand is that far too few of the viewers are actively engaged in any sort of politics at all.. So we should mend the relationship, not end it."
He also warns the likes of BBC's Chris Patten that he will not tolerate special favours: "Labour can only succeed as a living, breathing party that clearly stands for the national interest, not just a sectional sopping wet, bleeding heart, liberal interest."
In recent weeks there have been allegations that BBC licence fee collectors have been signing up individuals who don’t even watch the BBC or in some cases don’t even have a television set – and making them pay a ‘subscription’ of £145 –often without their consent, in an attempt to install the BBC's favourite ideals and political outlook onto the safe sofas of the country’s homes.
Senior party sources say there is evidence of similar practices in other areas such as the radio as BBC try to advance their agenda of a bigger public sector and more control over people's lives onto the airwaves of programs like You and Yours and Woman’s hour.
The row has left Miliband open to charges from the Conservatives that the BBC enjoy excessive influence at all levels of his party in return for their backing and promotion. The BBC has contributed more than 8 million friendly comments about Labour since Miliband became leader and is by far the party's biggest supporter.
There have been concerns that the BBC have spent much time trying to ensure their liberal social democratic policies are the ones that are adopted..." more follows...0 -
Miliband's 'End of Term Report' from Labour List:
http://labourlist.org/2013/07/milibands-end-of-term-report-hows-he-doing-on-the-3-ps/0 -
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.0 -
I'm not sure the costs are zero, but in any case your argument applies retrospectively to when the last government declined to go ahead with the same proposal.Jonathan said:Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero..
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Apart from all the usual political problems associated with a minority government one factor that should draw back go it alone Conservatives is the reaction of the markets. The prospect of a few points on interest rates and rising mortgages should focus minds wonderfully.antifrank said:Ignore the url, this is a fascinating insight into the mindset of a Tory backwoodsman with implications for post-2015 politics:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/benedictbrogan/100227193/nigel-farage-is-a-great-excuse-to-ditch-the-tv-debates/
"In 2010 Mr Jenkin urged Mr Cameron to form a minority government and try his luck with a maintenance and supply arrangement. “He disregarded that advice and the consequence has been a relatively paralysed administration.” He says a Conservative majority is needed to do the hard work on the deficit that the Coalition – to his mind – has failed to do. Next time though, if a majority is not available, and Mr Cameron is denied a free hand by the Lib Dems, then he should seek to lead a minority government. “If we cannot secure an agreement with a coalition partner that gives us freedom to address the things that are holding the country back, including relations with the EU, if we can't deregulate, increase incentives and liberate the economy to grow faster, well, then we should be in opposition. Because we need a clear mandate or accept that we've lost the election.”
This time, however, the parliamentary party should be “properly consulted”. If it is “it will be much harder for the leadership to bounce us into an agreement like they did last time”. Last time MPs had no experience, and most of them were new anyway. “This time he will be dealing with coalition hardened veterans who are going to be much more wary.” "
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Though I have sympathy for David H's point that cigs and (presumably) crash helmets seat belts heroin prostitution etc should be a matter for the individual I think the danger is that ultimately we end up with a very selfish society where the message is we only care about ourselves.
Thatcher embraced 'individiual choice and 'no such thing as society ' and we ended up not being able to walk in London without tripping over tramps sleeping in doorways and cardboard boxes rent boys filling up Euston Station and beggars everywhere.
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malcolmg said:
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.
Yet Alex is still bigging up all male run activities - in fact he can't get enough of them:
http://www.thetablet.co.uk/latest-news/5217
"The Catholic Church in Scotland will recover from its current troubles and remains at the heart of Scottish life, First Minister Alex Salmond said.
Mr Salmond was known to be close to Cardinal Keith O'Brien, whose departure from office for inappropriate conduct has shaken the Church in Scotland.
Mr Salmond, leader of the Scottish National Party, said the Church had been "at the heart of the independence movement in Scotland" in the past, and that "without the Catholic Church there would be no Scotland.
18 April 2013"
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Wow Roger, that Thatcher, now responsible for rent boys and box sleepers..no end to her evil ways..Did you ever write for the Muppet Show0
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Miss Plato, it's hat weather. Alas, I only have a baseball cap.
If I were not so impoverished I might buy myself some sort of headwear from http://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/
On smoking: I don't see the point of plain packaging. At school my biology teacher told us of a friend of his with emphysema[sp], which helped to put me off taking up smoking.0 -
The most effective public health adverts of recent years (by far) were the responsible drink adverts that showed young people preparing to go out for the evening as if they were going to start in the state that they ended up. Forget the idea of persuading people that being responsible is good for their health, persuade them that being irresponsible is going to be embarrassing, unsexy and uncool.0
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curse of cameron - Bresnan out - first ball of the day.0
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'As a father" Tony Blair blew the sh*t out of Iraq...killed some kids on the way too.0
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For the avoidance of doubt: you won't find on this earth anyone more virulently anti-smoking than me. Whenever I hear people moaning about how the world is going to hell in a handcart and reminiscing about the good old days, it reminds me about how God-awful the good old days were if you wanted to breathe clean air on a long flight (desperately hoping that your so-called 'non-smoking' seat wasn't two feet away from the front of the smoking section, although even if it wasn't the air circulation system would soon spread the smoke throughout the cabin), in the pub, or a restaurant (even very fine ones), or a bus, or even in most offices prior to the early nineties. Some things really have got massively better, and this is unambiguously one of them.0
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Some parental control seems to be in order here for the fag packet fans.. It is easy to find out if your child has had a cigarette, you could actually start by asking them.0
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The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
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My lawyer advises.. that we should avoid any discussion touching on prominent public figures awaiting court proceedings0
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non smokers kiss better.0
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I am a bit of hat fan - I have all sorts in boxes from a topper to safari via Jenny Pitman. I love them but one has to be fairly immune to strange looks to carry them off :^ )Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, it's hat weather. Alas, I only have a baseball cap.
If I were not so impoverished I might buy myself some sort of headwear from http://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/
On smoking: I don't see the point of plain packaging. At school my biology teacher told us of a friend of his with emphysema[sp], which helped to put me off taking up smoking.
I also have a huge collection of silk scarfs - not looking like a Romania housewife or cancer patient or The Queen is a challenge.0 -
Implicit assumptions:
1) Why is it purely due to acceptability that Tories might do more work? Perhaps they're more likely to have such jobs. Tory MPs and Labour MPs are hardly likely to be identical.
2) What's wrong with a 'bag of swag'? It's generally a good sign that an MP is able to make a lot of money. It suggests some talent in wealth creation. I like that in someone running the state.
3) Moonlighting MPs? They all moonlit in the 19th century (since being an MP was unpaid) and perhaps Parliament was better for it. If it diminished the standing of Parliament, I wonder how we still had anything left by 1900.
And finally, perhaps it would do well to remember that you don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. What has a freely-paid job got to do with hand-outs funded by taxation?
"Something stinks when affluent MP preach the need to cap the benefits of the poor but not their own earning power.."
Actually, it's the other way round. People on benefits don't show earning power; that's WHY they're on benefits. What kind of example is stopping earning to promote earning?
Sorry, this is an incredibly arse-about-face article.0 -
smear Link?tim said:
David Cameron caved in to the tobacco lobby.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article.
I expect we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
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Miss Plato, did people take the pith?0
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Or just smelling their clothes or breath if within a yard or two. It's not hard. My local Chinese had a smoking section and I'd come home stinking like an ashtray if our table had been within 20ft.richardDodd said:Some parental control seems to be in order here for the fag packet fans.. It is easy to find out if your child has had a cigarette, you could actually start by asking them.
How anyone can miss such a very specific and clinging smell is beyond me. Blowing smoke out of a window doesn't take it off someone's breath.0 -
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
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Not at all, they're intellectually rigorous in their approach.tim said:
Have you noticed the silence of the PB Tories who were attacking Salmond on this.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Osborne awards medals at Paralympics - good thing
Osborne booed at Paralympics - bad thing
Salmond attends Ryder Cup - bad thing
Salmond booed at Ryder Cup - good thing
Cameron attends Wimbledon final - good thing
Salmond attends Wimbledon final - bad thing
Salmond waves saltire at Wimbledon final - very bad thing
Cameron waves Union flag at Olympic event - good thing
Salmond presents trophy at Scottish Open - bad thing
Salmond critcises all-male membership at Muirfield - bad thing
Salmond says he will not attend Muirfield Open - bad thing
Tory Culture secretary says she will not attend Muirfield Open - good thing
Cameron criticises all-male membership at Muirfield - good thing
Salmond says he will not attend England v Scotland football match - bad thing
Admirably consistent.
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Ha! Only with the face of a sucked lemon :^ )Morris_Dancer said:Miss Plato, did people take the pith?
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That's true, and a fair point.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades
The surprising thing to me was how rapidly similar bans were imposed thoughout most of the Western world, even in countries like Italy.0 -
NickP - I wrote a measured, if lengthy reply which got eaten on submission. To precis-
I'm in favour of individuals taking responsibility for their own actions. To that end, yes, I would support the legalisation of many currently illegal social drugs, providing that their manufacture and sale could be properly regulated. I'd also support lifestyle behaviours being reflected in an individual's National Insurance *rate*.
The matter changes when there are third-party implications. I support the smoking ban in pubs and other indoor public spaces, and support the rights of employees and customers not be inflicted with dangerous materials by their employers, or by businesses (or in the case of businesses that deal with these things as part of their purpose, to provide proper safety equipment and training).0 -
Salmond bigging up the all male committee of the Catholic Church ? = tumbleweed from the Nats.Theuniondivvie said:
Not at all, they're intellectually rigorous in their approach.tim said:
Have you noticed the silence of the PB Tories who were attacking Salmond on this.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Osborne awards medals at Paralympics - good thing
Osborne booed at Paralympics - bad thing
Salmond attends Ryder Cup - bad thing
Salmond booed at Ryder Cup - good thing
Cameron attends Wimbledon final - good thing
Salmond attends Wimbledon final - bad thing
Salmond waves saltire at Wimbledon final - very bad thing
Cameron waves Union flag at Olympic event - good thing
Salmond presents trophy at Scottish Open - bad thing
Salmond critcises all-male membership at Muirfield - bad thing
Salmond says he will not attend Muirfield Open - bad thing
Tory Culture secretary says she will not attend Muirfield Open - good thing
Cameron criticises all-male membership at Muirfield - good thing
Salmond says he will not attend England v Scotland football match - bad thing
Admirably consistent.
They are all hypocrites - to a man (or Harman)
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Mr. Divvie, who's praised Cameron for attacking the all-male golf club?
I don't monitor the site every minute of every hour but from what I'd gathered some thought such restrictions were fine, and others were annoyed politicians were attacking all-male institutions and making no mention of all-female golf clubs, of which there are an equal number.
That's not a Cameron-specific point, incidentally. Harman and others are ridiculous for attacking all-male golf clubs as sexist but not uttering a word about all-female clubs.0 -
That'll go down well in the wee Frees.....TGOHF said:
Mr Salmond....said....that, "without the Catholic Church there would be no Scotlandmalcolmg said:
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.
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Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
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Labour needed to keep the plain paper and packaging for their policy documents, Jack.JackW said:
Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
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Jonathan said:
No! It is politics at its worst. A classic fudge to kick the issue post 2015 (at the very least).JackW said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Like labour kicked it post 2010?Jonathan said:
No! It is politics at its worst. A classic fudge to kick the issue post 2015 (at the very least).JackW said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.0 -
313-9.0
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How many females on the Rangers board?TGOHF said:
Salmond bigging up the all male committee of the Catholic Church ? = tumbleweed from the Nats.
They are all hypocrites - to a man (or Harman)
I presume you think anyone with a partial view of Cameron & Salmond's similar behaviour is also a hypocrite?
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Incidentally, I don't normally plug my blog, but I've got another interview up with Toby Frost, the author of the forthcoming sci-fi comedy A Game of Battleships:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/interview-2-with-toby-frost-interview.html0 -
JackW said:
Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
That is such a terrible argument @JackW. On this issue, Labour spent it's time wisely tackling and succeeding on much more difficult problems.
You appear to be trying to deflect attention from the fact that the coalition govt is in power NOW. Only it is responsible for what it does. This is the only thing we can change.
Whatever spin you put on it, the govt has deliberately chosen to do NOTHING. ZIP. SWEET FA.0 -
You need to apply Ockham's razor, McDivvie.Theuniondivvie said:
Not at all, they're intellectually rigorous in their approach.tim said:
Have you noticed the silence of the PB Tories who were attacking Salmond on this.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
Osborne awards medals at Paralympics - good thing
Osborne booed at Paralympics - bad thing
Salmond attends Ryder Cup - bad thing
Salmond booed at Ryder Cup - good thing
Cameron attends Wimbledon final - good thing
Salmond attends Wimbledon final - bad thing
Salmond waves saltire at Wimbledon final - very bad thing
Cameron waves Union flag at Olympic event - good thing
Salmond presents trophy at Scottish Open - bad thing
Salmond critcises all-male membership at Muirfield - bad thing
Salmond says he will not attend Muirfield Open - bad thing
Tory Culture secretary says she will not attend Muirfield Open - good thing
Cameron criticises all-male membership at Muirfield - good thing
Salmond says he will not attend England v Scotland football match - bad thing
Admirably consistent.
Cameron - good
Salmond - bad
Entirely consistent.
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Here's another piece of evidence for tim on the dire effects of Osborne's mortgage schemes:
A pick-up in activity among first-time buyers has put the brakes on increases in the cost of renting a home in England and Wales, a survey suggests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-233625930 -
For the sake of debate let's say it takes the next Coalition government until 2017 to put plain packaging into law. If that in your terms is "politics at its worst" then pray what is not doing the same for 13 years of Labour government ?Jonathan said:
No! It is politics at its worst. A classic fudge to kick the issue post 2015 (at the very least).JackW said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.0 -
That's true, but lets not pretend they were first in the British Isles:tim said:
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decadesJackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
Scotland: March 2006
Jersey: May 2006
Guernsey: July 2006
Wales: April 2007
Northern Ireland: April 2007
England: July 2007
Isle of Man: March 2008
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Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.0 -
divvers - who cares ? Not me.Theuniondivvie said:
How many females on the Rangers board?TGOHF said:
Salmond bigging up the all male committee of the Catholic Church ? = tumbleweed from the Nats.
They are all hypocrites - to a man (or Harman)
I presume you think anyone with a partial view of Cameron & Salmond's similar behaviour is also a hypocrite?
Salmond, Miller, Harridan, Cammo and that twat from C4 news should stop posturing regarding Muirfield - or take on all cases of all male management- starting a their local mosque or chapel - or better still shut up.
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On Topic.
So Miliband picks on something he thinks will hurt the Tories? Quelle Surprise!
A Labour politician is attacking people for being successful. Again.
(The exception I would make if it badly affects their work as an MP, but that doesn't appear to be the complaint here).0 -
Incorrect. The government has decided to review the situation. IMO they will legislate if the Aussie trials confirm some merit to plain packaging.Jonathan said:JackW said:
Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
That is such a terrible argument @JackW. On this issue, Labour spent it's time wisely tackling and succeeding on much more difficult problems.
You appear to be trying to deflect attention from the fact that the coalition govt is in power NOW. Only it is responsible for what it does. This is the only thing we can change.
Whatever spin you put on it, the govt has deliberately chosen to do NOTHING. ZIP. SWEET FA.
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@patrickwintour
Did Lynton Crosby ever lobby, or discuss, David Cameron going to Lords so ensuring England lost wicket to Australia 1st ball of day ?0 -
I can't wait for Labour's conference - either it will be more Dog Licenses for Journalists and Predator vs Producer - or something tangible that chimes with non-core voters.AveryLP said:
Labour needed to keep the plain paper and packaging for their policy documents, Jack.JackW said:
Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
I assume any *good ideas* will be stolen by the Tories which is the habit of all HMGs!0 -
Support (Public sector/Private Sector)tim said:New Populus Poll (changes on last week)
CON 31%(nc), LAB 39%(+1), LDEM 12%(-1), UKIP 10%(nc)
Con: 23/35
Lab: 51/42
0 -
My first instinct is to ask if it is bigger than the move to unleaded petrol? Perhaps so, as unleaded petrol did not try to change people's habits, whereas the smoking ban did.RichardNabavi said:
That's true, and a fair point.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades
The surprising thing to me was how rapidly similar bans were imposed thoughout most of the Western world, even in countries like Italy.
However, the effects of leaded petrol were perhaps more insidious - many of us could choose to avoid smoky pubs; we could not avoid fume-filled streets.
The leaded petrol ban was another good EU regulation ...0 -
If the ban on leaded petrol actually led to a huge drop in crime - that's even bigger. I'm not one for believing such theories - but the evidence seems rather compelling.JosiasJessop said:
My first instinct is to ask if it is bigger than the move to unleaded petrol? Perhaps so, as unleaded petrol did not try to change people's habits, whereas the smoking ban did.RichardNabavi said:
That's true, and a fair point.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades
The surprising thing to me was how rapidly similar bans were imposed thoughout most of the Western world, even in countries like Italy.
However, the effects of leaded petrol were perhaps more insidious - many of us could choose to avoid smoky pubs; we could not avoid fume-filled streets.
The leaded petrol ban was another good EU regulation ...
I feel like David Icke here.
PS When I lived in Croydon in the 80s - I vividly recall the air pollution and looking down at my white shirt - it was covered in smuts from the road traffic. Yuck.0 -
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.
0 -
F1: Pirelli closes their eyes, opens them, and realise that they're the ones holding the gun:
http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/motorsport/story/117101.html
I read somewhere that sporting/legal regulations mean that it'll be harder than might be thought the case for F1 to change their tyre supplier, and doing so at short notice is fraught with peril (getting the tyres wrong can not only ruin racing but risk lives, so a good period for development is essential).
Of course, it'd be easier if Pirelli walked away, but time's ticking away. F1 needs to get this sorted.0 -
Using Divvie's razor to cut away all tribal & subjective guff:AveryLP said:
You need to apply Ockham's razor, McDivvie.
Cameron - good
Salmond - bad
Entirely consistent.
IpsosMori Scotland Feb
Salmond: +2% satisfied
Cameron: -40% satisfied
0 -
The Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013 (c. 30) has now been published. The spirit of the Act is found in the subsection (1) of section 1: 'Marriage of same sex couples is lawful.' A great day for this jurisdiction.0
-
Surely the rise of the silver and mongrammed cigarette case is assured by plain packaging? A niche market but one nevertheless.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.
It could help sustain those jewellers who no longer sell business card cases. I had a silver one [being a poseur was essential], but who gives out business cards today? I can't recall getting one in years - we Bluetooth details to each other using a phone...0 -
Iain Martin on UKIP:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100227210/is-ukip-going-down-the-toilet-of-history/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
"Crosby's recommended approach on how to deal with this is surely correct. Cameron has no option other than to stick with his simplified message around welfare, controlling immigration, the economy and Labour weakness, keep pushing it, stay calm and hope that over the coming months sufficient former Tories drift back and forget that they were once so outraged at Cameron in particular and the political class in general that they were prepared to back Farage in a fit of rage. It is quite possible that this happens and that Ukip can be forced back into single figures. But does it feel, at this stage, as though Farage's forces will wither and end up back roughly where they started in 2010 when David Cameron still fell short against Gordon Brown? Nope."0 -
Home boys Lee Westwood and Martin Laird moving up The Open leader board0
-
The supposed correlation between the leaded petrol ban and the decrease in crime rates is indeed intriguing, especially as lead is known to effect the brain. However correlation does not necessarily equate to causation.Plato said:
If the ban on leaded petrol actually led to a huge drop in crime - that's even bigger. I'm not one for believing such theories - but the evidence seems rather compelling.JosiasJessop said:
My first instinct is to ask if it is bigger than the move to unleaded petrol? Perhaps so, as unleaded petrol did not try to change people's habits, whereas the smoking ban did.RichardNabavi said:
That's true, and a fair point.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades
The surprising thing to me was how rapidly similar bans were imposed thoughout most of the Western world, even in countries like Italy.
However, the effects of leaded petrol were perhaps more insidious - many of us could choose to avoid smoky pubs; we could not avoid fume-filled streets.
The leaded petrol ban was another good EU regulation ...
I feel like David Icke here.
It makes me wonder if the biggest health measure since World War II was not the formation of the NHS, but the Clean Air Act 1956 that finally abolished (most) smogs and was the start of the trend of improving air quality?
Just look at Beijing, Singapore or other developing economies to see what we could be like if it had not been pushed through.0 -
That is a fair point. Ofcourse the damage done to the fairer-sex by Mohammadians is irrelevant: Anti-FGM was a Conservative piece of legislation which Labour (including their Armed-Wing) refused to enforce.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Shame that your lurv of cults enforces the misogynist diatribe you atribute to others. Nothing new here hey...?
:same-as-it-ever-was:0 -
Some of the weightings are enormous. 191 UKIP identifiers in the sample are weighted down to 20 in the weighted base. 178 Lib Dem identifiers are weighted up to 261.CarlottaVance said:
Support (Public sector/Private Sector)tim said:New Populus Poll (changes on last week)
CON 31%(nc), LAB 39%(+1), LDEM 12%(-1), UKIP 10%(nc)
Con: 23/35
Lab: 51/42
There is either something problematic about the way in which Populus are finding their sample, or there is something problematic about the party ID question.
Populus also found many fewer people in multiple car households than they were expecting.
Another interesting snippet - the Tories gain more votes from 2010 Labour and Lib Dem voters (34) than they lose to both those parties (29).0 -
You should have offered to buy her a very lady-like Cartier lighter. Beautiful design and prices start from as low as £450.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.0 -
I was HUGELY irked by Cameron over minimum OH pricing and snooping et al - I've forgotten most of my irritation as it's been ameliorated by Abu Qatada etc. I'm living proof of the voter who was NOTA starting to return home.CarlottaVance said:Iain Martin on UKIP:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100227210/is-ukip-going-down-the-toilet-of-history/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
"Crosby's recommended approach on how to deal with this is surely correct. Cameron has no option other than to stick with his simplified message around welfare, controlling immigration, the economy and Labour weakness, keep pushing it, stay calm and hope that over the coming months sufficient former Tories drift back and forget that they were once so outraged at Cameron in particular and the political class in general that they were prepared to back Farage in a fit of rage. It is quite possible that this happens and that Ukip can be forced back into single figures. But does it feel, at this stage, as though Farage's forces will wither and end up back roughly where they started in 2010 when David Cameron still fell short against Gordon Brown? Nope."
I doubt I'm alone here.0 -
I agree - I recall my other half being stuck in Bejing back in the mid-90s - he said his colleagues didn't need to smoke, just breathe in.
His tales of just touching a handrail and having soot covered fingers/not seeing the sun for days were awful.JosiasJessop said:
The supposed correlation between the leaded petrol ban and the decrease in crime rates is indeed intriguing, especially as lead is known to effect the brain. However correlation does not necessarily equate to causation.Plato said:
If the ban on leaded petrol actually led to a huge drop in crime - that's even bigger. I'm not one for believing such theories - but the evidence seems rather compelling.JosiasJessop said:
My first instinct is to ask if it is bigger than the move to unleaded petrol? Perhaps so, as unleaded petrol did not try to change people's habits, whereas the smoking ban did.RichardNabavi said:
That's true, and a fair point.tim said:The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades
The surprising thing to me was how rapidly similar bans were imposed thoughout most of the Western world, even in countries like Italy.
However, the effects of leaded petrol were perhaps more insidious - many of us could choose to avoid smoky pubs; we could not avoid fume-filled streets.
The leaded petrol ban was another good EU regulation ...
I feel like David Icke here.
It makes me wonder if the biggest health measure since World War II was not the formation of the NHS, but the Clean Air Act 1956 that finally abolished (most) smogs and was the start of the trend of improving air quality?
Just look at Beijing, Singapore or other developing economies to see what we could be like if it had not been pushed through.0 -
I think for some years there's been a market for old fag cases to be used for business cards but as you say even the latter appears a wee bit obsolete nowadays.Plato said:
Surely the rise of the silver and mongrammed cigarette case is assured by plain packaging? A niche market but one nevertheless.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.
It could help sustain those jewellers who no longer sell business card cases. I had a silver one [being a poseur was essential], but who gives out business cards today? I can't recall getting one in years - we Bluetooth details to each other using a phone...
I still have an old family gold Asprey cigarette case emblazoned with our coat of arms. Wonderful item but of little practical use.
0 -
curse of Cameron - broad out after an umpire led inquiry...0
-
Yet again England's tail proves worth of a sixth batsman.
Why they don;t go for five bowlers is beyond me.0 -
Well your party has one MP embroiled in a potentially very embarrassing High Court Case and an Internal review involving a vulnerable person and another MP who is working hard to switch off the entire Jewish and anti-rascist voters from ever voting Lib Dem. A higher % of men behaving badly than the % in the other 2 main parties.MikeSmithson said:I was simply demonstrating how this could be portrayed if LAB got their own version of Lynton Crosby.
Your Oz has upped the ante and make no mistake the other parties will compete.
Politics is dirty. Remember how the NO campaign linked AV to cancer patients.
How many extra people will die because of Tory sleaze?
0 -
Off-topic:
Bloody Yorkshiremen:
Third-Test*- Drop Root and switch-and-swap Prior/Trott as openers. **
- Bairstow has earnt his place, sadly.
- Bring-in Ravi or that Paddy-bloke to bat middle-order
- Bresnan retained as our No 10.
* Subject to weather.
** Prior if we bat first; Trott second-innings.0 -
@JackW
I had a friend who supplied Asprey and we went on a jolly to New York - we spent the entire afternoon in Tiffany's with him discussing the merits of the jewelry with the experts and me festooned with diamonds and pearls and goggled at by tourists.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.
I still have an old family gold Asprey cigarette case emblazoned with our coat of arms. Wonderful item but of little practical use.
A real Breakfast At Tiffany's moment.
My friend had the most marvellous watch - it was eye-popping limited run stuff that wasn't ostentatious at all, just oozed opulence.0 -
Modern Cartier for £450 sound a bit cheap. The Dowager was a Van Cleef and Arpels gal and Lord W knew it !!Max_Edinburgh said:
You should have offered to buy her a very lady-like Cartier lighter. Beautiful design and prices start from as low as £450.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.
0 -
I'm sure you looked a million dollars as well as wearing it !!Plato said:
I had a friend who supplied Asprey and we went on a jolly to New York - we spent the entire afternoon in Tiffany's with him discussing the merits of the jewelry with the experts and me festooned with diamonds and pearls and goggled at by tourists.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.
I still have an old family gold Asprey cigarette case emblazoned with our coat of arms. Wonderful item but of little practical use.
My friend had the most marvellous watch - it was eye-popping limited run stuff that wasn't ostentatious at all, just oozed opulence.
0 -
"This historic change in the law came to our country in a way that is unique in the 16 countries and the 14 US states with same-sex marriage. That’s because it was proposed and tabled by a Conservative prime minister with the support of his Liberal Democrat deputy. He stands as the only head of government to have tabled the change in the law and led a government with the courage to fight before and not after well-funded groups like Stonewall called on him."
http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/benjamin-cohen-how-the-battle-for-gay-marriage-was-finally-won-8720309.html0 -
More dumb commentary from Allister Heath.tim said:Anyone among the PB Tories wanting to argue that Osborne stoking house price inflation will increase supply?
In the US, a one per cent increase in prices will trigger a two per cent increase in supply;
...
a one per cent rise in prices in the UK tends to bolster supply by just 0.4 per cent or so.
It is like watching a three year attack a drawing book. All the dots are there and numbered but no matter how hard the child tries he can't manage to join the dots in the right order.
No one should be in the least bit surprised that, in countries with a high ratio of land to population and a tradition of building in wood , supply will respond more quickly to increases in demand than in countries with high populations, limited land and stone and brick building traditions.
Simply stating that a one per cent rise in prices in the UK tends to bolster supply by just 0.4 per cent is insufficient information. Over what time period is the response measured?
In the five years between 2007 and 2011, Private Sector dwellings completed fell from 198,480 to 106,620, which indicates a fairly strong and quick response to fall in demand.
With current rates of completion now around 33,000 per quarter, there is no reason to believe that the five year fall in private sector construction could not be followed by a equivalent compensating rise.
As to the reasons given for the UK's (non-existent) slow response to changes in demand, Heath states: "the construction market is uniquely unresponsive to price changes, thanks to an idiotic set of land use and planning restrictions, inherited from the socialist Town and Country Planning Act of 1947, combined with deeply entrenched extreme nimbyism".
Well, this is great fun and I would have enjoyed attributing the same 'socialist' causes in a PB post, but it is not in the least supported by evidence.
House building in the UK is recovering in response to increased demand and will continue to do so as the economy and house prices recover.
What has disappeared is 1950s and 1960s large scale building of social housing by local and central government. Gone forever, like socialism.
0 -
Caved in to his right wingers again.CarlottaVance said:the only head of government to have tabled the change in the law and led a government with the courage to fight
Oh, wait...0 -
And they're off!
http://labourlist.org/2013/07/did-lynton-crosby-tell-cameron-to-cut-taxes-on-fracking/
"So will David Cameron answer these three questions:
- Did Lynton Crosby tell David Cameron to cut taxes on fracking?
- Have they ever discussed taxes on fracking?
- And was Cameron aware that Crosby’s firm has links to companies that will benefit from such a tax cut?"
No, you silly people, he'll say 'Lynton Crosby has never lobbied me on fracking'......0 -
JackW said:
Modern Cartier for £450 sound a bit cheap. The Dowager was a Van Cleef and Arpels gal and Lord W knew it !!Max_Edinburgh said:
You should have offered to buy her a very lady-like Cartier lighter. Beautiful design and prices start from as low as £450.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.Max_Edinburgh said:
Ahh Senior Service a trully terrible smoke. About the only filterless snout on the market these days! I'll stick to the rich full flavour of Davidoff.JackW said:
Indeed so but according to "tim" you'd think the Coalition was force feeding babies in incubators 40 senior service a day !!Jonathan said:
The present situation is sensible. Let the aussies do the research and review the issue accordingly.
Which for tim's benfit are covered in gruesome Australian-style images. Something he seems unaware of.
Whilst not wishing to pee on another - isn't a *cheap* Cartier like a cheap Porshe? Or compact BMW?
There are brands that are there to be stupidly and irrationally uber expensive.
If I wanted to just know the time - I'd have bought a Casio watch or a Sekonda who did some fantastic advertising way back when.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvZiTe9VUoo0 -
England all out for 361.
A decent score by historic Lords first innings standards but on this pitch and in this weather might be short of par.0 -
fracking tax cuts.0
-
Interesting story in the Times, moot anyway as Scotland will be independent away by then
The UK Government would allow the devolved Scottish government to go bust rather than step in to rescue it from creditors, The Times has learnt.
Senior Treasury sources have disclosed that the UK will not underwrite any loans taken out by the Scottish Government after it gets the power to borrow money in two years’ time.
0 -
To be fair it's changed a lot. Smoking is banned in public places in China and there's loads of pollution in Beijing but not cigarette smoke. The proportion who smoke is higher than the UK (30% vs 20% IIRC) but it's not really dramatic.Plato said:I agree - I recall my other half being stuck in Bejing back in the mid-90s - he said his colleagues didn't need to smoke, just breathe in.
His tales of just touching a handrail and having soot covered fingers/not seeing the sun for days were awful.JosiasJessop said:
Just look at Beijing, Singapore or other developing economies to see what we could be like if it had not been pushed through.
Can't remember about Singapore, but I didn't get the impression of a vast amount of smoking there either.
0 -
You are too kind, his watch was all lapis and gold - it was made by Garrard's to commemorate something or other and was stunning.
I used to be a bit of a watch nerd and his was just gorgeous. I'm an Omega girl myself.JackW said:
I'm sure you looked a million dollars as well as wearing it !!Plato said:
I had a friend who supplied Asprey and we went on a jolly to New York - we spent the entire afternoon in Tiffany's with him discussing the merits of the jewelry with the experts and me festooned with diamonds and pearls and goggled at by tourists.JackW said:
My paternal grandmother, late Dowager Lady W, was partial to the filterless ciggies but was notorious for bumming fags off family and the staff as she refused to carry a cigarette case or lighter as being rather unseemly for a woman.
I still have an old family gold Asprey cigarette case emblazoned with our coat of arms. Wonderful item but of little practical use.
My friend had the most marvellous watch - it was eye-popping limited run stuff that wasn't ostentatious at all, just oozed opulence.0 -
@CarlottaVance: "As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. "0
-
Cameron seems to be unaware of the fact that single-sex organisations are quite lawful and that thousands of them exist nationwide.malcolmg said:
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.
0 -
Mr. Fear, it's worth adding that attacking male-only clubs but not female-only clubs is pathetic (and ironic).0
-
You see, the government does sometimes get something right.Jonathan said:JackW said:
Smoking isn't banned but restricted. And for all your bluster Labour had 13 years to introduce plain packaging but clearly felt it unimportant enough to legislate on.tim said:JackW said:
The clock tick tocked for 13 years under Labour until the spring bust.tim said:
Tick tock, tick tockJonathan said:
Personally I want this brought in before my kids are old enough to see their peers smoke. No reason to wait, since the costs are zero.RichardNabavi said:
There you go.tim said:the Australian packaging law has only been in place for six months and so has not had time to show results
I expect, incidentally, that the Australian experience will be successful, for the reasons given in the rest of your quoted article, and that we'll see the proposal brought in within a couple of years (or maybe even at EU level). But, given that the Australians are kindly piloting it for us, it's hardly unreasonable to wait to see how it actually works out in practice.
Tick tock, tick tock.
Lots of scope for a "how many kids took up smoking today Dave?" clock.The PB Tories anger at any cancer charity using that will be immense.
"As a father" I'm sure he'll be very very proud.
The smoking ban introduced by the last Labour govt will be seen as the most important public health measure for decades, no matter how many sub optimal attempts at wit you post.
Tick tock ....
That is such a terrible argument @JackW. On this issue, Labour spent it's time wisely tackling and succeeding on much more difficult problems.
You appear to be trying to deflect attention from the fact that the coalition govt is in power NOW. Only it is responsible for what it does. This is the only thing we can change.
Whatever spin you put on it, the govt has deliberately chosen to do NOTHING. ZIP. SWEET FA.
0 -
Every minute Labour spend attacking Mr Who's That - they distract from anything they actually say about anything meaningful.CarlottaVance said:And they're off!
http://labourlist.org/2013/07/did-lynton-crosby-tell-cameron-to-cut-taxes-on-fracking/
"So will David Cameron answer these three questions:
- Did Lynton Crosby tell David Cameron to cut taxes on fracking?
- Have they ever discussed taxes on fracking?
- And was Cameron aware that Crosby’s firm has links to companies that will benefit from such a tax cut?"
No, you silly people, he'll say 'Lynton Crosby has never lobbied me on fracking'......
Let them fill every broadcast intv with this cobblers - he's not paying the Tories for anything unlike Labour and UNITE - they're paying him.0 -
Quite. I've always been of the opinion that a private club should be entitled to be as inclusive or exclusive as its members wish.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Fear, it's worth adding that attacking male-only clubs but not female-only clubs is pathetic (and ironic).
0 -
I'd expect nothing else from HMG - if Scotland want to stand on their own two feet - let them and be damned. Why should other bits of the UK give them a free pass? Does any other part of the UK public sector get to spend what it doesn't have with alacrity?TheScreamingEagles said:Interesting story in the Times, moot anyway as Scotland will be independent away by then
The UK Government would allow the devolved Scottish government to go bust rather than step in to rescue it from creditors, The Times has learnt.
Senior Treasury sources have disclosed that the UK will not underwrite any loans taken out by the Scottish Government after it gets the power to borrow money in two years’ time.0 -
Sean I think it's not that single sex clubs are legal, which of course they are, but that golf and golf of all sports, should portray its greatest championship, the course clubs that have the honour of hosting and the RA that run the game as banning women.Sean_F said:
Cameron seems to be unaware of the fact that single-sex organisations are quite lawful and that thousands of them exist nationwide.malcolmg said:
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.
It's risible in this age.
0 -
As exclusive as no blacks or Jews ?!?Sean_F said:
Quite. I've always been of the opinion that a private club should be entitled to be as inclusive or exclusive as its members wish.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Fear, it's worth adding that attacking male-only clubs but not female-only clubs is pathetic (and ironic).
0 -
I suppose my views are coloured by the fact that I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than watch golf being played.JackW said:
Sean I think it's not that single sex clubs are legal, which of course they are, but that golf and golf of all sports, should portray its greatest championship, the course clubs that have the honour of hosting and the RA that run the game as banning women.Sean_F said:
Cameron seems to be unaware of the fact that single-sex organisations are quite lawful and that thousands of them exist nationwide.malcolmg said:
Where Alex leads , Cameron followstim said:Here comes "As a father"
Neil Henderson @hendopolis 4m
SCOTSMAN: Cameron chips in to 'no women' golf row #todayspaperstoday #sorryitslate pic.twitter.com/Z5IP98r8ms
Who gave up his membership of an all male club in 2008.
So we can add that U turn to his conversion to believing gay people shouldn't be legally discriminated against around the same time.
It's risible in this age.
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There is also a story on small Scottish firms being forced to sign contracts under English law because of confusion over currency:Plato said:
I'd expect nothing else from HMG - if Scotland want to stand on their own two feet - let them and be damned. Why should other bits of the UK give them a free pass? Does any other part of the UK public sector get to spend what it doesn't have with alacrity?TheScreamingEagles said:Interesting story in the Times, moot anyway as Scotland will be independent away by then
The UK Government would allow the devolved Scottish government to go bust rather than step in to rescue it from creditors, The Times has learnt.
Senior Treasury sources have disclosed that the UK will not underwrite any loans taken out by the Scottish Government after it gets the power to borrow money in two years’ time.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/article3820234.ece
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