politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To kneel or not to kneel that is the question
Comments
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Maybe his dad will get his pal to show them to him , old boy network you know works every time.MaxPB said:
Yup, he should not be given access to classified or foreign intelligence. He is a without doubt a terrorist sympathiser and would sell out this country to his Islamist mates.SouthamObserver said:It would clearly be a significant risk to give Corbyn access to confidential, security-related information. If it were me I would not let him near it. If he had to be given it, then foreign governments are going to be much more reluctant to share info with the UK.
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I am sure there are a few things we agree on. But I am afraid I cannot get past his record over the last 40 years or that, at heart, he is an anti-capitalist class warrior who has made no attempt to move on from the 80s.Jonathan said:
At last Corbyn and SO agree on something!SouthamObserver said:
So time to end charitable status for private schools?Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
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If Corbyn is deposed before 2020 the next leader will have to have been a big figure in the Shadow Cabinet, as Michael Howard was when he replaced IDS. Benn has said he agreed with Corbyn that the Iraq War was a mistake at least as there were no WMDsTCPoliticalBetting said:
These gaps are becoming ridiculous. Of course if Hilary Benn had a backbone he would not be in the shadow cabinet.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: So....Hilary Benn disagrees with @jeremycorbyn on Ukraine, Iraq, Trident and NATO. ( and Syria too ??) @MarrShow
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Sunil on Sunday Exclusive!
Tim Farron laughs off claims he mulled over renaming the LibDems "The Taxi Party" on becoming leader!0 -
Dear Dear SO , you are as bad as the frothers on here nowadays.SouthamObserver said:It would clearly be a significant risk to give Corbyn access to confidential, security-related information. If it were me I would not let him near it. If he had to be given it, then foreign governments are going to be much more reluctant to share info with the UK.
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Indeed, backed by his father I believeCharles said:
More interesting was that he kept saying that the decision on Trident was up to Conference.HYUFD said:Hilary Benn impressive on Marr, says he does not believe that Labour will vote to scrap Trident or withdraw from Nato and that while the Iraq War was wrong due to no WMDs nonetheless Iraq is now a democracy with its problems emanating from Saddam's rule. He remains the most likely replacement for Corbyn in my view if there is any coup before the next election
He also conceded his father would have been 'thrilled' by Corbyn's election
Weren't those the old rules in Labour?0 -
Howard still couldn't win over 200 seats (198 as it happened)!HYUFD said:
If Corbyn is deposed before 2020 the next leader will have to have been a big figure in the Shadow Cabinet, as Michael Howard was when he replaced IDS. Benn has said he agreed with Corbyn that the Iraq War was a mistake at least as there were no WMDsTCPoliticalBetting said:
These gaps are becoming ridiculous. Of course if Hilary Benn had a backbone he would not be in the shadow cabinet.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: So....Hilary Benn disagrees with @jeremycorbyn on Ukraine, Iraq, Trident and NATO. ( and Syria too ??) @MarrShow
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You would have to be really really bad to break LibDem rulesTCPoliticalBetting said:
yes and yesCyclefree said:
Didn't she have the Lib Dem whip withdrawn in the Lords for making anti-Semitic remarks? Is that the sort of new member Labour wants?TCPoliticalBetting said:
"Baroness Tonge said she was “thinking about” joining Labour and “a lot of people” in her party were pondering the move as they found Corbyn “a breath of fresh air”.Plato_Says said:The LDs have IIRC the same number of MPs as the DUP.
With Farron in charge, a curious fellow IMO - I can't see him winning back moderate Labour voters either. I know he's a campaigner blah blah, but I still think Lamb was a much better option.
At least he gives off greybeard sensible vibes.Philip_Thompson said:
As for the Lib Dems, they're a dead parrot of a party. Why would we talk of them?Jonathan said:
Well if that were the case, which it isn't, it would be a very big deal indeed.Philip_Thompson said:
Not if the members you are getting are toxic to the electorate.Jonathan said:
Things are different. A membership alone of 500k is different.Plato_Says said:It looks like the same Placard Army that were #Occupy and anti-cuts marchers and CNDers of my youth.
I understand why @Jonathan feels the desire to defend his Party - but I don't agree with his premise.Alanbrooke said:I just don't see how it's different, it looks same old same old to me.
My Local CLP, for example, which had 100 members now has the challenge of organising 600. Branches that closed in the 90s are being restarted.
That's interesting. Other parties would see that as a very big deal.
The willful blindness is palpable.
Anyway, why aren't we talking about the lib dems? It's their big week after all. With 6%, including a leader bounce, they are on the march back to glory.
The former GP, who as Jenny Tonge was MP for Richmond Park, southwest London, said she agreed with Corbyn on benefit cuts, foreign affairs, defence and the environment. She complained that she had not “heard a peep” on policy from Tim Farron, the new Lib Dem leader." “I know that lots of Lib Dems are contemplating supporting Jeremy Corbyn, including me,” Tonge said.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1609363.ece0 -
Columns of British school children pour off the campus like economic migrants in eastern Europe. The left insist they are poor and will starve if they don't get free meals. But actually they have pounds to spend and long for a better lunchtime and only razor wire around the local sweet shop and ice cream van will stop the tidal wave of obesity.0
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Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.0 -
A replacement leader doesn't have to be in the Shadow Cabinet but it will help if he is for the sake of party unity. The risk in staying there is that he becomes tainted by that very fact.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn is deposed before 2020 the next leader will have to have been a big figure in the Shadow Cabinet, as Michael Howard was when he replaced IDS. Benn has said he agreed with Corbyn that the Iraq War was a mistake at least as there were no WMDsTCPoliticalBetting said:
These gaps are becoming ridiculous. Of course if Hilary Benn had a backbone he would not be in the shadow cabinet.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: So....Hilary Benn disagrees with @jeremycorbyn on Ukraine, Iraq, Trident and NATO. ( and Syria too ??) @MarrShow
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Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.0 -
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
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@Plato_Says
'With Farron in charge, a curious fellow IMO - I can't see him winning back moderate Labour voters either. I know he's a campaigner blah blah, but I still think Lamb was a much better option.'
I thought everyone loved the Andrex puppy.
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LOL, the pedants are awake and well, what's an N between pals but I believe you will find mine was correct.Alanbrooke said:
shouldn't that be cannonised ?malcolmg said:
Think it would be MM's extreme right wing bollox about how great a scam it was and how the Tories were just finishing off destruction of Labour with this wonderful policy against poor children and suggesting Osborne be canonised.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
over to Morris Dancer.0 -
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
They just need to dust of Khan's back catalogue of videos of him addressing rallies.. Loads of ammunition there.0 -
I believe you will find mine's the better option :-)malcolmg said:
LOL, the pedants are awake and well, what's an N between pals but I believe you will find mine was correct.Alanbrooke said:
shouldn't that be cannonised ?malcolmg said:
Think it would be MM's extreme right wing bollox about how great a scam it was and how the Tories were just finishing off destruction of Labour with this wonderful policy against poor children and suggesting Osborne be canonised.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
over to Morris Dancer.0 -
The frothers just cannot get over JC winning. Next JJ will be on protesting that he is not a Tory and is only a misjudged right wing nutter.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.0 -
Yes with double shot hopefullyAlanbrooke said:
I believe you will find mine's the better option :-)malcolmg said:
LOL, the pedants are awake and well, what's an N between pals but I believe you will find mine was correct.Alanbrooke said:
shouldn't that be cannonised ?malcolmg said:
Think it would be MM's extreme right wing bollox about how great a scam it was and how the Tories were just finishing off destruction of Labour with this wonderful policy against poor children and suggesting Osborne be canonised.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
over to Morris Dancer.0 -
Comres poll favourability ratings adjusted by intention to vote
Politician
Favourable
Unfavourable
Neither
Don’t know
NET (Favourable-Unfavourable)
Boris Johnson
39%
31%
22%
8%
+8
David Cameron
35%
42%
17%
6%
-7
(likely voters)
43%
40%
15%
2%
+3
Tom Watson
11%
19%
26%
45%
-8
Theresa May
22%
33%
29%
16%
-11
Tim Farron
6%
18%
29%
47%
-12
George Osborne
25%
42%
22%
11%
-17
(likely voters)
32%
42%
19%
6%
-10
John McDonnell
6%
23%
23%
48%
-17
Jeremy Corbyn
24%
42%
20%
15%
-18
(likely voters)
26%
48%
17%
9%
-22
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2015/09/19/no-poll-bounce-for-jeremy-corbyn/-1 -
They should kowtow!Sean_F said:
Oddly enough, I agree. A bow should be a sufficient mark of respect to a Head of State.surbiton said:
It is really stupid that in a country of equals someone has to kneel in front of another. For women, it is worse.NickPalmer said:
I'm a bit reluctant to play PB Corbyn point man on a daily basis when I'm more or less retired, but I have to say I'm not aware of any buyer's remorse at all - do we have even ONE example out of hundreds of thousands of even an ordinary member saying "I voted for him but now I wish I hadn't"? I think it's sensible to concentrate on the day job rather than trying to chair an NGO at the same time, but I don't expect him to comment on every poem that anyone writes, and would think he was letting himself he hassled unnecessarily if he did.DavidL said:
The real question must surely be how much of this childish nonsense the Shadow Cabinet can take. If it goes on like this I would give it another week. Buyers remorse must already be widespread whilst those that declined get to be equally childish and say, " I told you so."
As a Corbyn voter, I'm probably fairly typical - mildly encouraged that the polls show that the Tory onslaught hasn't had much effect so far, judging by the range of results yesterday. It was always going to be a difficult project, but we knew that and were not expecting a sunny honeymoon. There will be more awkward moments and compromises to make in the coming months, but you can't reshape British politics without some of that. Deciding whether to kneel as the price of Privy Council membership is another such - tricky but essentially peripheral to what we're trying to do. Most of us won't really care whether he kneels or not, and if the Government makes the sharing of issues of national importance hinge on that, then we'll know who to blame, and it won't be Corbyn.
What we have is not buyer's remorse but opponents' dilemma - people who didn't vote for him are torn between wanting to express their opposition and not wanting to rock the boat and be blamed for consequences. I'm not at all in the "let's start deselecting Blairites" camp, but I do expect internal opponents largely to STFU except by making specific policy proposals, and by and large that's what they're doing.
By the way, is anyone around for at the Labour conference? It'd be interesting to meet up. I'm at the Tory conference as well, but only on the Tuesday when I've got a fringe meeting.
Can't the Queen be shown respect without having to do this ?
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They just need to dust of Khan's back catalogue of videos of him addressing rallies.. Loads of ammunition there.SquareRoot said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
Are we entering the internet age of politics? By that I mean all the back catalogs of political speeches for nearly the last twenty years are there to be scanned in seconds and posted, as all politicians have their faux pas before they really get into the mainstream it is all there to be found out at a later date.0 -
Indeed, after toppling one leader the risk of replacing him with an outright opponent for party unity's sake is too risky and especially when that leader had membership backing. That is why the Tories replaced IDS with Michael Howard and not, say, Portillo or Clarke and why Labour would replace Corbyn with Hilary Benn rather than, say, Yvette Cooper or David Milibanddavid_herdson said:
A replacement leader doesn't have to be in the Shadow Cabinet but it will help if he is for the sake of party unity. The risk in staying there is that he becomes tainted by that very fact.HYUFD said:
If Corbyn is deposed before 2020 the next leader will have to have been a big figure in the Shadow Cabinet, as Michael Howard was when he replaced IDS. Benn has said he agreed with Corbyn that the Iraq War was a mistake at least as there were no WMDsTCPoliticalBetting said:
These gaps are becoming ridiculous. Of course if Hilary Benn had a backbone he would not be in the shadow cabinet.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: So....Hilary Benn disagrees with @jeremycorbyn on Ukraine, Iraq, Trident and NATO. ( and Syria too ??) @MarrShow
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That's why I don't understand the point of an elected but mostly ceremonial head of state that some nations have. If your voting for someone they should an actual impact as they are already political unlike, ideally, an unelected of state.Charles said:
I think that's because monarchs in developed societies know that they can't throw their weight around and so don't get involved in politics.Sean_F said:
Curiously, a number of rich and fairly egalitarian societies have monarchs as Heads of State.HaroldO said:A quick musing on republicanism in the UK.
The main stumbling block that republicans have in UK is that they are fighting against a nice old lady in a cardi, that likes a flutter on the horses, spoils her dogs and makes us look good abroad.How are you supposed to fight against that?
Charles has more targets but even he is just a Woodehousian eccentric, a member of the landed gentry that talks to his pigs and carrots and wants us all to get along.
There needs to be more of an argument that "we are a laughing stock abroad", because having been abroad quite a few times we plainly aren't...or if we are it isn't the Queen that is the cause.
It has to be stronger and deeper rooted than this for republicans to succeed.
By contrast an elected head of state will have the tendency to favor those groups of voters that (a) vote and (b) vote for them0 -
He won most votes in England though and IDS may well have done worse. It was coming third in the Brent East by-election which did for IDS, a third place in a by-election could do for Corbyn too, especially if it is in a former Labour seat and they come behind UKIPSunil_Prasannan said:
Howard still couldn't win over 200 seats (198 as it happened)!HYUFD said:
If Corbyn is deposed before 2020 the next leader will have to have been a big figure in the Shadow Cabinet, as Michael Howard was when he replaced IDS. Benn has said he agreed with Corbyn that the Iraq War was a mistake at least as there were no WMDsTCPoliticalBetting said:
These gaps are becoming ridiculous. Of course if Hilary Benn had a backbone he would not be in the shadow cabinet.Scott_P said:@BBCNormanS: So....Hilary Benn disagrees with @jeremycorbyn on Ukraine, Iraq, Trident and NATO. ( and Syria too ??) @MarrShow
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No, as that status funds bursaries and scholarships for those who cannot afford the feesSouthamObserver said:
So time to end charitable status for private schools?Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.0 -
If the economy doesn't makedly slow, I think he gets on to the final two. If not, he has too many inherent weaknesses to persuade them to do it, he needs the weight of inevitability.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
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Do they have any? Harrassed women complain and the man remains in the party.... Pillow biters talk and the Leader remains Jews are threatened and insulted and the MP remains.malcolmg said:
You would have to be really really bad to break LibDem rulesTCPoliticalBetting said:
yes and yesCyclefree said:
Didn't she have the Lib Dem whip withdrawn in the Lords for making anti-Semitic remarks? Is that the sort of new member Labour wants?TCPoliticalBetting said:
"Baroness Tonge said she was “thinking about” joining Labour and “a lot of people” in her party were pondering the move as they found Corbyn “a breath of fresh air”.Plato_Says said:The LDs have IIRC the same number of MPs as the DUP.
With Farron in charge, a curious fellow IMO - I can't see him winning back moderate Labour voters either. I know he's a campaigner blah blah, but I still think Lamb was a much better option.
At least he gives off greybeard sensible vibes.Philip_Thompson said:
As for the Lib Dems, they're a dead parrot of a party. Why would we talk of them?Jonathan said:
Well if that were the case, which it isn't, it would be a very big deal indeed.Philip_Thompson said:
Not if the members you are getting are toxic to the electorate.Jonathan said:
Things are different. A membership alone of 500k is different.Plato_Says said:It looks like the same Placard Army that were #Occupy and anti-cuts marchers and CNDers of my youth.
I understand why @Jonathan feels the desire to defend his Party - but I don't agree with his premise.Alanbrooke said:I just don't see how it's different, it looks same old same old to me.
My Local CLP, for example, which had 100 members now has the challenge of organising 600. Branches that closed in the 90s are being restarted.
That's interesting. Other parties would see that as a very big deal.
The willful blindness is palpable.
Anyway, why aren't we talking about the lib dems? It's their big week after all. With 6%, including a leader bounce, they are on the march back to glory.
The former GP, who as Jenny Tonge was MP for Richmond Park, southwest London, said she agreed with Corbyn on benefit cuts, foreign affairs, defence and the environment. She complained that she had not “heard a peep” on policy from Tim Farron, the new Lib Dem leader." “I know that lots of Lib Dems are contemplating supporting Jeremy Corbyn, including me,” Tonge said.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1609363.ece0 -
Looking around it's like no one has sensed that there is an election in Greece, yet again (3rd time they vote in 8 months).
So far according to my sources, the only sure thing is that turnout is down by about 10% from last time and the Nazis are up a few points, they still expect Syriza to win but they are not sure, because the lower turnout is concentrated among the middle aged voters.0 -
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Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operator0 -
How many Conservative MPs will take a hit from Osborne's buy to let tax changes?kle4 said:
If the economy doesn't makedly slow, I think he gets on to the final two. If not, he has too many inherent weaknesses to persuade them to do it, he needs the weight of inevitability.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
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This is rather good http://brilliantmaps.com/2nd-largest-nationality/0
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How many Conservative MPs does it take to change a light bulb?TCPoliticalBetting said:
How many Conservative MPs will take a hit from Osborne's buy to let tax changes?kle4 said:
If the economy doesn't makedly slow, I think he gets on to the final two. If not, he has too many inherent weaknesses to persuade them to do it, he needs the weight of inevitability.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
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The interesting thing about Greece is that the SYRIZA break away led by the former energy minister is polling at just 3-4%, and the current SYRIZA coalition partners, the Independent Greeks, look likely to miss the 3% threshold.Speedy said:Looking around it's like no one has sensed that there is an election in Greece, yet again (3rd time they vote in 8 months).
So far according to my sources, the only sure thing is that turnout is down by about 10% from last time and the Nazis are up a few points, they still expect Syriza to win but they are not sure, because the lower turnout is concentrated among the middle aged voters.
Therefore, a SYRIZA/Potami coalition looks the most likely outcome, with a small chance (say 20%), that ND ends up ahead of SYRIZA.0 -
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.0 -
One. Because they dont have a union.Sunil_Prasannan said:
How many Conservative MPs does it take to change a light bulb?TCPoliticalBetting said:
How many Conservative MPs will take a hit from Osborne's buy to let tax changes?kle4 said:
If the economy doesn't makedly slow, I think he gets on to the final two. If not, he has too many inherent weaknesses to persuade them to do it, he needs the weight of inevitability.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
0 -
Oh dear http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1609551.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_09_19
SNP MP snaps up homes of struggling families
0 -
@TCPoliticalBetting Osborne's advantage is that he is a far better networker than his main rival (Boris). Of course May could be a surprise candidate but they may want a more younger leader. Then there's Sajid Javid but he's an Osborne acolyte - his ambitions and Osborne,s may clash.0
-
If people can reelect a party that openly, not just in the accusations of its opponents, failed utterly In its aims and now operates in a 180 to what it used to campaign on and was elected on, then anything is possible and the opposition must be terrifyingly bad.0
-
I just don't see how it's different, it looks same old same old to me.
Things are different. A membership alone of 500k is different.
My Local CLP, for example, which had 100 members now has the challenge of organising 600. Branches that closed in the 90s are being restarted.
That's interesting. Other parties would see that as a very big deal.
'A membership alone of 500k'
The increases in membership has been impressive, but I haven't seen that number quoted anywhere else.
There where 292,505 members registered to vote at the leadership election, plus 15,500 who joined in the 24hous after Coybyn won, but that still leaves 192,995 short?
If more have joined since and you have a link to a report of that, great please can you provide it. But otherwise this is starting to sound like 'tractor production numbers' (must always be shone to be rising)
The increase of membership of the labour party is real, but whether it will last and the extent to which is counterbalanced by the impending loss of finical support from the trade unions, is still to be seen. (if/when the Trade Union Bill is implemented)
0 -
Indeed, it now looks like Syriza will lose seats but still be largest party and have to do a deal with both PASOK and Potamircs1000 said:
The interesting thing about Greece is that the SYRIZA break away led by the former energy minister is polling at just 3-4%, and the current SYRIZA coalition partners, the Independent Greeks, look likely to miss the 3% threshold.Speedy said:Looking around it's like no one has sensed that there is an election in Greece, yet again (3rd time they vote in 8 months).
So far according to my sources, the only sure thing is that turnout is down by about 10% from last time and the Nazis are up a few points, they still expect Syriza to win but they are not sure, because the lower turnout is concentrated among the middle aged voters.
Therefore, a SYRIZA/Potami coalition looks the most likely outcome, with a small chance (say 20%), that ND ends up ahead of SYRIZA.0 -
On that front things look pre-ordained, either a Syriza-The River-Union of Centrists coalition or a ND-The River-Socialists coalition.rcs1000 said:
The interesting thing about Greece is that the SYRIZA break away led by the former energy minister is polling at just 3-4%, and the current SYRIZA coalition partners, the Independent Greeks, look likely to miss the 3% threshold.Speedy said:Looking around it's like no one has sensed that there is an election in Greece, yet again (3rd time they vote in 8 months).
So far according to my sources, the only sure thing is that turnout is down by about 10% from last time and the Nazis are up a few points, they still expect Syriza to win but they are not sure, because the lower turnout is concentrated among the middle aged voters.
Therefore, a SYRIZA/Potami coalition looks the most likely outcome, with a small chance (say 20%), that ND ends up ahead of SYRIZA.
Syriza looks strong because Tsipras is promising that Juncker will give him 35 billion euros in an aid package and he will give the money to the people, due to the nature of the greek people most of them believe him despite another scandal involving the No.2 man in Syriza with a government road works contract worth several million given to his construction company. Basically Syriza is as corrupt and incompetent as the other previous greek governments.0 -
Osborne still has poor ratings from voters. Osborne's promotion of stooges has upset a lot of backbenchers.The_Apocalypse said:@TCPoliticalBetting Osborne's advantage is that he is a far better networker than his main rival (Boris). Of course May could be a surprise candidate but they may want a more younger leader. Then there's Sajid Javid but he's an Osborne acolyte - his ambitions and Osborne,s may clash.
0 -
Once again the only surprise is that there is surprise.
Slurs on the monarchy from the anti war coalition? What do people think these bozos were really about? What else brings them together if it is not anti west anti capitalism pro revolution.
How long before the 3pounders from this mob (friends of chairman Corbyn) will be inducted into Labour?
And should we be surpriesd at the lentil eating Hammas loving tendency within the libdems finding Corbyn so strangely attractive?
I must say however it is comforting to see their absurdities so easily exposed.0 -
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.
PS I am not a white van man.0 -
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.0 -
I apologise then, I thought it meant just something negativeTheuniondivvie said:
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.0 -
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.Barnesian said:
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
PS I am not a white van man.
Are you an Asian van man? 0 -
Perhaps you were thinking of French for duck
kle4 said:
I apologise then, I thought it meant just something negativeTheuniondivvie said:
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.0 -
ICM has also made some changes and came out last week with figures close to Opinium and YouGov.felix said:Re: Yesterdays polls it is worth remembering how wrong they were in May and I believe only ComRes have changed their methodology since. Suggests the Conservative lead might be higher.
0 -
No discussion of military nutjob this am? Or would it disturb the lefty nutjob flow?
https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/6454867178316390400 -
There are those in the public school system that would welcome such a move. Maintaining charitable status has become a burden that for many schools is a game no longer worth the candle. People who advocate this as some sort of attack on private education really need to think through what the likely results would be.SouthamObserver said:
So time to end charitable status for private schools?Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.0 -
No, the canard is in the implications nudge-nudge, wink-wink about their membership. The sorts of lies and rumours that ended up with the Red Rag madness. And which you reference with the 'Bullingdon Rig' comment.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
Basically, the lie is in the Bullingdon Club being somehow larger and more important than it really is, or could be.0 -
State does not subsidise well off pensioners. Pensioners pay in all their lives to get their pensions out. And once there they are then on a fixed income with the sands of time running out.The_Apocalypse said:
It subsides well-off pensioners so why not? I wouldn't have a problem means-testing it though to the poorest families - but from what I can see Osborne is getting rid of the scheme completely so many poor children will lose out.Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
A bus pass is hardly a massive subsidy. Take the average NHS pension at 7 grand. Plus the state pension, and all taxed. Where is the subsidy on that?
0 -
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.Barnesian said:
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
PS I am not a white van man.
What I like about Zac is that, like Corbyn, he is a rebel who takes a principled stand. That is why he has not been advanced by Cameron even though he is very capable and presentable.
As mayor, he will be a thorn in the side of Government and a much more effective mayor than Kahn as a result.0 -
The likely results would be private schools end bursary and scholarship programmes and become even more exclusive enclaves of those with very wealthy parents. There are some in the public school system who would welcome that so they do not have to bother with any attempts at 'outreach' just put their fees up, however in social mobility terms it would be less beneficialHurstLlama said:
There are those in the public school system that would welcome such a move. Maintaining charitable status has become a burden that for many schools is a game no longer worth the candle. People who advocate this as some sort of attack on private education really need to think through what the likely results would be.SouthamObserver said:
So time to end charitable status for private schools?Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.0 -
Interesting point from Hitchens that no one else seems to have thought about. We assume all soldiers are monarchists and patriots, , but are they? My own grandfather (died before I was born) was a bit of a commie who was sunk on the Ark Royal during WW2 for instance
'And I might add, these freedoms were what the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots saved when they won the Battle of Britain. Some of them may have been unsure about the Monarchy, if they’d had time to think about it. And I wonder how many of the soldiers who slogged doggedly through the Western Desert, Burma, Italy and Normandy were a bit Left-wing, too.
The world’s full of countries where you have to salute the leader and sing the party song in public. This isn’t one of them, so to hell with all the superpatriots who condemned Jeremy Corbyn for not singing God Save The Queen.'
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/0 -
Similar threats were made when Wilson was PM and came to nothing, I doubt we are going to become Egypt just yetTheuniondivvie said:No discussion of military nutjob this am? Or would it disturb the lefty nutjob flow?
https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/6454867178316390400 -
Why else do you think I'm considering joining the Lib Dems? If they'll let anyone in, I'll probably just about fit in.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Do they have any? Harrassed women complain and the man remains in the party.... Pillow biters talk and the Leader remains Jews are threatened and insulted and the MP remains. 0 -
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.Barnesian said:
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
PS I am not a white van man.
Yes, but there are far more white van men in Outer London than middle class Green voters in Richmond and Kingston who may consider giving Zac a second preference0 -
Very few I should think. The ta changes seem designed to hit those who rely on mortgages to fund their property portfolio and then rents to pay off the mortgages. Those who own the properties outright will, as I read it, not really be affected. Thus the already wealthy will not be affected but those further own the scale who have been using BTL as a substitute for pension saving will be clobbered.TCPoliticalBetting said:
How many Conservative MPs will take a hit from Osborne's buy to let tax changes?kle4 said:
If the economy doesn't makedly slow, I think he gets on to the final two. If not, he has too many inherent weaknesses to persuade them to do it, he needs the weight of inevitability.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Agreed. The question is whether Osborne gets put onto the two candidate slate by Conservative MPs.The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
Going back more than forty years successive governments have been very keen to encourage people to make provision for their own old age. Yet for the past twenty or so those same governments have kept playing with the rules and using pension savings as a pot to be raided to fund current expenditure. As a result the best occupational pension system in the world has been destroyed.0 -
Oh Dear indeed, The Times is really poor nowadays, have they any journalists left or are they trying to outdo the Sun/Mail.Plato_Says said:Oh dear http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/article1609551.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2015_09_19
SNP MP snaps up homes of struggling families
0 -
Nicola Shaw's thrown a hand-grenade into the debate on the future of the railways:
"Network Rail privatisation 'on the table'"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34276868
Personally, I'd very much doubt that privatisation's the answer. Perhaps splitting it up into several different bodies instead of the current giant monolith, although I don't know whether that would be best done on geographical regions basis, or on purpose (e.g. maintenance, renewals, Enhancements).
All that's clear is that the current nationalised Network Rail is doing an excellent job in some areas, and a p*ss-poor one in others.0 -
Yes - on those figures Labour would rise to 249 with the Tories down to 313. A minority Tory Government would be struggling to survive.TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this ICM/Sun on Sunday poll of the marginals shows Corbyn denying the Tories a majority.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/madcap-ideas-make-corbyn-unelectable-swing-voters-say/0 -
@JossiasJessop
I am glad you are still around, Mr. Jessop. Have you seen the article about HS2 in the Telegraph this morning?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/hs2/11877210/HS2-planners-warn-trains-may-terminate-in-the-suburbs-as-Euston-redevelopment-is-pushed-back.html
It seems to me that the business case for HS2, never very robust, has now been holed below the waterline and the project is descending into a farce kept going only to save the vanity of certain politicians. However, I would be grateful for your views.0 -
So if Corbyn is elected PM there will be a military coup.HYUFD said:
Similar threats were made when Wilson was PM and came to nothing, I doubt we are going to become Egypt just yetTheuniondivvie said:No discussion of military nutjob this am? Or would it disturb the lefty nutjob flow?
https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/6454867178316390400 -
So easy to sidestep Corbyn's madness. If there was ever a chance of him gaining power, just make sure all the franchises have at least 6 yrs to run.JosiasJessop said:Nicola Shaw's thrown a hand-grenade into the debate on the future of the railways:
"Network Rail privatisation 'on the table'"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34276868
Personally, I'd very much doubt that privatisation's the answer. Perhaps splitting it up into several different bodies instead of the current giant monolith, although I don't know whether that would be best done on geographical regions basis, or on purpose (e.g. maintenance, renewals, Enhancements).
All that's clear is that the current nationalised Network Rail is doing an excellent job in some areas, and a p*ss-poor one in others.0 -
Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"0
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They all laughed when @Nigel_Farage said Under the EU - millions of migrants would be queuing up to come here. pic.twitter.com/POvD3Nu2fp
— REPORTER 47 (@REPORTER_47) September 19, 20150 -
It can also be an airplanekle4 said:
I apologise then, I thought it meant just something negativeTheuniondivvie said:
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.0 -
First Tory defection to the LibDemsJosiasJessop said:
Why else do you think I'm considering joining the Lib Dems? If they'll let anyone in, I'll probably just about fit in.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Do they have any? Harrassed women complain and the man remains in the party.... Pillow biters talk and the Leader remains Jews are threatened and insulted and the MP remains.0 -
More info from my sources, Syriza and ND seem to be tied around 31-33%, expected turnout figures continue to be falling, essentially those who disagree with european economic policies are abstaining rather than voting, leaving only party hardliners to vote.0
-
Working parents are also paying into the system; therefore by that argument the state isn't subsidising them either.flightpath01 said:
State does not subsidise well off pensioners. Pensioners pay in all their lives to get their pensions out. And once there they are then on a fixed income with the sands of time running out.The_Apocalypse said:
It subsides well-off pensioners so why not? I wouldn't have a problem means-testing it though to the poorest families - but from what I can see Osborne is getting rid of the scheme completely so many poor children will lose out.Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
A bus pass is hardly a massive subsidy. Take the average NHS pension at 7 grand. Plus the state pension, and all taxed. Where is the subsidy on that?
Free school meals cost £1bn, while 'other pension spending' costs up to £28bn.
0 -
SO... You are absolutely correct... Foreign powers..Allies.. will not share info that is sensitive if Corbyn is in the loop..why would they risk their own security...only a fool would think otherwise0
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Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government.Plato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
0 -
Yes, but not to the liberal democratsPlato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
0 -
Yes, but there are far more white van men in Outer London than middle class Green voters in Richmond and Kingston who may consider giving Zac a second preferenceHYUFD said:
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.Barnesian said:
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
PS I am not a white van man.
Actually the GREENS are a diminishing resource. Most will have joined/rejoined Corbyns Labour party by the time next May comes around.0 -
LOL, that will be a different type of paying no doubt.The_Apocalypse said:
Working parents are also paying into the system; therefore by that argument the state isn't subsidising them either.flightpath01 said:
State does not subsidise well off pensioners. Pensioners pay in all their lives to get their pensions out. And once there they are then on a fixed income with the sands of time running out.The_Apocalypse said:
It subsides well-off pensioners so why not? I wouldn't have a problem means-testing it though to the poorest families - but from what I can see Osborne is getting rid of the scheme completely so many poor children will lose out.Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
A bus pass is hardly a massive subsidy. Take the average NHS pension at 7 grand. Plus the state pension, and all taxed. Where is the subsidy on that?
Free school meals cost £1bn, while 'other pension spending' costs up to £28bn.0 -
Mr. Hitchens may have a point with regard to the armed forces of WW2. However, that was a period of universal conscription. I doubt you would find such a range of views in today's very small and totally volunteer forces. The position of the monarchy in the eyes of the service men and women is, I would think, absolutely nailed on. They have after all individually, freely and voluntarily taken a personal oath to serve HMtQ, her heirs and successors.isam said:Interesting point from Hitchens that no one else seems to have thought about. We assume all soldiers are monarchists and patriots, , but are they? My own grandfather (died before I was born) was a bit of a commie who was sunk on the Ark Royal during WW2 for instance
'And I might add, these freedoms were what the Spitfire and Hurricane pilots saved when they won the Battle of Britain. Some of them may have been unsure about the Monarchy, if they’d had time to think about it. And I wonder how many of the soldiers who slogged doggedly through the Western Desert, Burma, Italy and Normandy were a bit Left-wing, too.
The world’s full of countries where you have to salute the leader and sing the party song in public. This isn’t one of them, so to hell with all the superpatriots who condemned Jeremy Corbyn for not singing God Save The Queen.'
http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/0 -
It would also have the backing of 11 DUP, UUP and UKIP MPs taking it to 324 while Labour and the SNP and SDLP and SF and PC and Greens and LDs combined would amount to exactly the same total. Comres and yougov last night had a swing to the Tories which would see them gain Labour seatsjustin124 said:
Yes - on those figures Labour would rise to 249 with the Tories down to 313. A minority Tory Government would be struggling to survive.TheScreamingEagles said:I reckon this ICM/Sun on Sunday poll of the marginals shows Corbyn denying the Tories a majority.
http://www.sunnation.co.uk/madcap-ideas-make-corbyn-unelectable-swing-voters-say/0 -
so say three dozen defect, does that mean young Farron no longer controls his own parliamentary party ?Plato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
0 -
What opposition?kle4 said:If people can reelect a party that openly, not just in the accusations of its opponents, failed utterly In its aims and now operates in a 180 to what it used to campaign on and was elected on, then anything is possible and the opposition must be terrifyingly bad.
Syriza, ND, PASOK, The River, Independent Greeks and the Union of Centrists have the same policy platform on everything.
If in a democracy most or all parties have the same policies on all issues then why even bother to vote, hence the very low turnout.0 -
That was my reaction.Alanbrooke said:
so say three dozen defect, does that mean young Farron no longer controls his own parliamentary party ?Plato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
0 -
I've said many times on here that the thing that may kill HS2 is Euston. It's a hard problem to solve. Then again, I don't necessarily agree with Gilligan's take on HS2, which is always relentlessly negative.HurstLlama said:@JossiasJessop
I am glad you are still around, Mr. Jessop. Have you seen the article about HS2 in the Telegraph this morning?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/hs2/11877210/HS2-planners-warn-trains-may-terminate-in-the-suburbs-as-Euston-redevelopment-is-pushed-back.html
It seems to me that the business case for HS2, never very robust, has now been holed below the waterline and the project is descending into a farce kept going only to save the vanity of certain politicians. However, I would be grateful for your views.
As I said to Mr Tyndall the other week when discussing it, let's wait for the revised plans to be released.
On the other hand, the need for more capacity is real, and the other proposed solutions are not as good at addressing it as HS2. If HS2 is shelved and we do nothing to solve those problems, we're storing big problems up for ourselves.
It seems that we're becoming a much less ambitious country than we used to be, talking more about things we cannot do (Boris Island, even Heathrow, HS2) than what we can, and perhaps should, do.0 -
TheWhiteRabbit said:
Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government.Plato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
0 -
MikeK said:
They all laughed when @Nigel_Farage said Under the EU - millions of migrants would be queuing up to come here. pic.twitter.com/POvD3Nu2fp
— REPORTER 47 (@REPORTER_47) September 19, 2015
They all laughed when I said I was becoming a comedian. They are not laughing now.
You still haven't told me where you got your Greek election bet on.0 -
First real exit poll numbers from my sources on the greek election:
Syriza 32
ND 31.5
Nazis 7
PASOK 6
Communists 5.5
River 4.5
Independent Greeks 3
Peoples Union 3
Union of Centrists 3.
Looks like a long night.0 -
The Independent Greeks do not have the same platform. They are pretty anti-EUSpeedy said:
What opposition?kle4 said:If people can reelect a party that openly, not just in the accusations of its opponents, failed utterly In its aims and now operates in a 180 to what it used to campaign on and was elected on, then anything is possible and the opposition must be terrifyingly bad.
Syriza, ND, PASOK, The River, Independent Greeks and the Union of Centrists have the same policy platform on everything.
If in a democracy most or all parties have the same policies on all issues then why even bother to vote, hence the very low turnout.0 -
I think this demonstrates that none are planning to defect.Plato_Says said:Ummm Sky: Tim Farron "dozens of Labour MPs could defect"
If one was planning on defecting then that when it happens would be a coup, but after Farron pledging dozens it would appear a damp squib.
If dozens were planning on defecting then better to reveal it when it happens again without forewarning the Labour whips and make a massive story about it then.
If none are planning on defecting and you're desperately floundering then why not try a fishing expedition.
Farron is quite clearly the last one. Nobody is planning to defect to the Lib Dems or else he wouldn't say that.0 -
Actually the GREENS are a diminishing resource. Most will have joined/rejoined Corbyns Labour party by the time next May comes around.MikeK said:
Yes, but there are far more white van men in Outer London than middle class Green voters in Richmond and Kingston who may consider giving Zac a second preferenceHYUFD said:
Its not just the white van man. Zac will pick up a lot of the Green vote, the West London vote and will be 2nd preference for a lot of LibDems like me, even though I am a Corbyn supporter.Barnesian said:
Jowell was the more electable candidate, but I would not rule out Khan, remember Livingstone won London twice and Labour won most votes and seats in London even in 2010 and 2015. If Khan gets a big lead in inner London, Goldsmith will need to get an equally big lead in Outer London to have a chance of winning, and I don't think Zac has quite the same appeal to white van man as Boris while Khan is a tough operatorHYUFD said:
Khan is going to lose to Zac, It won't be an anti-Corbyn vote that gets Zac elected. It will be an anti-Khan vote.Barnesian said:Plato_Says said:I see Sadiq is rowing away a tout vitesse.
Asked to comment on Corbyn's Hamas and Hezbollah connections, he said Labour had to ditch its 'anti-Jewish' image, which was not acceptable' in Britain.
Khan said there was a direct link between Middle East tension and anti-Semitic attacks in London, saying synagogues and Jewish schools in London needed 24-hour guards as a result.
Khan also disowned Corbyn's and McDonnell's policies including a 'ridiculous' 60p top tax rate, scrapping nuclear weapons, leaving Nato and nationalising banks, and said he would not take orders from Corbyn if he became mayor. 'I will be my own man,' he vowed.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3241649/Labour-s-Mayor-savages-Corbyn-Party-star-Khan-damns-leader-anti-Semitism.html#ixzz3mGScc6h6
Incidentally Zac and Corbyn strongly agree in their opposition to TTIP and Heathrow expansion.
PS I am not a white van man.
Indeed, though the few who do remain who are not diluted Marxists are more likely to be chic, Metropolitan Liberals and they at least will favour Zac0 -
They are very pro-EU now, they not only voted for the bailout but decried anyone against it as a traitor to europe.rcs1000 said:
The Independent Greeks do not have the same platform. They are pretty anti-EUSpeedy said:
What opposition?kle4 said:If people can reelect a party that openly, not just in the accusations of its opponents, failed utterly In its aims and now operates in a 180 to what it used to campaign on and was elected on, then anything is possible and the opposition must be terrifyingly bad.
Syriza, ND, PASOK, The River, Independent Greeks and the Union of Centrists have the same policy platform on everything.
If in a democracy most or all parties have the same policies on all issues then why even bother to vote, hence the very low turnout.
Greek politicians make David Cameron look like a man of principle.0 -
No, as I said there was no coup against Wilson in the endSpeedy said:
So if Corbyn is elected PM there will be a military coup.HYUFD said:
Similar threats were made when Wilson was PM and came to nothing, I doubt we are going to become Egypt just yetTheuniondivvie said:No discussion of military nutjob this am? Or would it disturb the lefty nutjob flow?
https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/6454867178316390400 -
Strictly speaking, a leading pair of winglets on an aeroplane. But can be used for an aeroplane using such a system.malcolmg said:
It can also be an airplanekle4 said:
I apologise then, I thought it meant just something negativeTheuniondivvie said:
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard_(aeronautics)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Saab_AJS-37_Viggen_37098_52_(SE-DXN)_(9256079273).jpg0 -
Looks like a Syriza, PASOK, River, Union of Centrists deal. ND will not do a deal with Golden Dawn and the Independent Greeks and the Communists and Peoples Union are anti bailout and austerity and will not deal with Tsipras on his present policy platformSpeedy said:First real exit poll numbers from my sources on the greek election:
Syriza 32
ND 31.5
Nazis 7
PASOK 6
Communists 5.5
River 4.5
Independent Greeks 3
Peoples Union 3
Union of Centrists 3.
Looks like a long night.0 -
We do seem to be in danger of repeating the mistakes of Crossrail and Thameslink 2000.JosiasJessop said:
I've said many times on here that the thing that may kill HS2 is Euston. It's a hard problem to solve. Then again, I don't necessarily agree with Gilligan's take on HS2, which is always relentlessly negative.HurstLlama said:@JossiasJessop
I am glad you are still around, Mr. Jessop. Have you seen the article about HS2 in the Telegraph this morning?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/hs2/11877210/HS2-planners-warn-trains-may-terminate-in-the-suburbs-as-Euston-redevelopment-is-pushed-back.html
It seems to me that the business case for HS2, never very robust, has now been holed below the waterline and the project is descending into a farce kept going only to save the vanity of certain politicians. However, I would be grateful for your views.
As I said to Mr Tyndall the other week when discussing it, let's wait for the revised plans to be released.
On the other hand, the need for more capacity is real, and the other proposed solutions are not as good at addressing it as HS2. If HS2 is shelved and we do nothing to solve those problems, we're storing big problems up for ourselves.
It seems that we're becoming a much less ambitious country than we used to be, talking more about things we cannot do (Boris Island, even Heathrow, HS2) than what we can, and perhaps should, do.0 -
Is there any data on who gets these bursaries and scholarships, or how many there are? I know very little about them except that Boris Johnson, from a very well-off family, got one. One of my very good friends - who is also exceptionally well-off - also got two of his kids privately educated on scholarships. But maybe they are the exceptions.HYUFD said:
The likely results would be private schools end bursary and scholarship programmes and become even more exclusive enclaves of those with very wealthy parents. There are some in the public school system who would welcome that so they do not have to bother with any attempts at 'outreach' just put their fees up, however in social mobility terms it would be less beneficialHurstLlama said:
There are those in the public school system that would welcome such a move. Maintaining charitable status has become a burden that for many schools is a game no longer worth the candle. People who advocate this as some sort of attack on private education really need to think through what the likely results would be.SouthamObserver said:
So time to end charitable status for private schools?Charles said:
Why should the state subsidise well off parents?The_Apocalypse said:
Very early on in the thread in some posts back it's certainly implied. I agree this Osborne being a wanker though. No wonder his figures are similar to Corbyn's.Alanbrooke said:
I'm lost with that, where does anyone say school meals is about destroying the Labour Party ?The_Apocalypse said:How on earth does getting rid of free school meals destroy the Labour Party exactly? If some Conservative activists really believe that playing silly little political games is their main aim instead of creating a better country, then they really can't pontificate on being the competent and responsibile party in British politics.
This is simply Osborne being a wanker again.
0 -
hmmmm very pedantic ,Sunil_Prasannan said:
Strictly speaking, a leading pair of winglets on an aeroplane. But can be used for an aeroplane using such a system.malcolmg said:
It can also be an airplanekle4 said:
I apologise then, I thought it meant just something negativeTheuniondivvie said:
Canard means something that is false or untrue. Trying to frame a fact as a canard is a canard in itself.kle4 said:
Being in the bullingdon is pretty irrelevant because they don't claim to be the same people as when they smashed restaurants when drunk or whatever. Corbyn's supporters make a big deal of him thinking the same things for 30 years. So his views back then are relevant as unless he confirms otherwise we've been programmed to assume he still means it. It's not difficult to grasp and seems fair given the moralising about firmness of principle that different standards apply because by claiming to be more principled they invite higher standards.Theuniondivvie said:
Canard? So Dave, Boris & George weren't members of the Bullingdon then?JosiasJessop said:
I find Corbyn's stated views utterly repugnant, and it's quite staggering how much people are trying to defend him (especially whilst still throwing out the old canard about Bulliingdon, etc).
Shocking how the reputations of these poor chaps have been so traduced. No wonder they wanted that mocked up photo of them in full Bullingdon rig suppressed.
But if past statements are to be discounted, then it is fair to discount past actions like being in the bullingdon as well, and yet people try to act as though the past should be ignored only for one. Tories certainly do it too, but under Corbyn they have greater justification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canard_(aeronautics)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2d/Saab_AJS-37_Viggen_37098_52_(SE-DXN)_(9256079273).jpg0
