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SystemSystem Posts: 12,587
edited September 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Getting ready for the expected Corbyn victory – leading party figures change their approach

As ever the News Statesman’s George Eaton hits the nail on the head with these Tweets. Even Mr. Corbyn’s biggest opponents have got to be careful that they are not seen to be attacking a newly elected leader.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Morning !!!!!!!!
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    And to you, Sir!
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,316
    Pint of bitter losers please.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,454
    edited September 2015
    4th. I am the loser in this selection.

    Resurgam, said the submarine.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I agree that the losers need to give Jeremy Corbyn enough rope to hang himself. If I were Chuka Umunna (a startling idea all round) I would be looking in due course to set targets for the next round of elections in May: preventing the SNP getting an overall majority and making local council gains in England, for example. If by some mischance these were missed by some distance then one might feel more licence to express one's doubts about the electoral viability of the experiment.

    However, quite a few MPs have been burning their bridges with Jeremy Corbyn. Whether the Labour right can remain coherent is an open question.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,158
    Or woman?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    I agree with the thread header but I fear this is just the start of Labour's woes as there will always be excuses for not changing the leader. We've seen it again and again in the past. I suspect that the squirming Umunna may be provoking a wry smile from David Miliband this morning.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    AntiFrank was 5th like Boris

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
    CORRECTION Boris is in fifth place in ConHome next leader survey.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    felix said:

    I agree with the thread header but I fear this is just the start of Labour's woes as there will always be excuses for not changing the leader. We've seen it again and again in the past. I suspect that the squirming Umunna may be provoking a wry smile from David Miliband this morning.

    Do you mean "fear", Felix? As opposed to, say, "relish"?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    bigjohnowls said:

    AntiFrank was 5th like Boris

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
    CORRECTION Boris is in fifth place in ConHome next leader survey.

    Beaten into fifth place by Liam Fox.

    The shame. THE SHAME.

    Further evidence that Tory members shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Tory leadership election process.

    Liam Fox in fourth place! For Fox's sake.

    (I'm not a fan of Liam Fox if you hadn't guessed)
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    AntiFrank was 5th like Boris

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
    CORRECTION Boris is in fifth place in ConHome next leader survey.

    Beaten into fifth place by Liam Fox.

    The shame. THE SHAME.

    Further evidence that Tory members shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Tory leadership election process.

    Liam Fox in fourth place! For Fox's sake.

    (I'm not a fan of Liam Fox if you hadn't guessed)
    Can I pay £3 to vote for Gove or Fox please
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    On topic, you need to be fully behind someone to stab them in the back.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,357
    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Getting back to the real news:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34124142

    The government is set to announce "significant" changes to its planned rules on an in-out EU referendum.
    The changes will focus on the so-called purdah rules, which stop ministers using public money to campaign for one side, from 28 days before such a vote.
    ____________________

    Cameron twisting this way and that to get his way on the referendum.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    bigjohnowls said:

    AntiFrank was 5th like Boris

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
    CORRECTION Boris is in fifth place in ConHome next leader survey.

    You can still lay Boris Johnson at 4.9 on Betfair.

    The terms on which I can be laid are not public.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    felix said:

    I agree with the thread header but I fear this is just the start of Labour's woes as there will always be excuses for not changing the leader. We've seen it again and again in the past. I suspect that the squirming Umunna may be provoking a wry smile from David Miliband this morning.

    Do you mean "fear", Felix? As opposed to, say, "relish"?

    Lol - Even I think we ought to have an opposition barely to the right of ISIS.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,316
    @mattW They that go down to the sea in ships and do business in great waters. Psalm 107.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-19247383
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    bigjohnowls said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    AntiFrank was 5th like Boris

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 4m4 minutes ago
    CORRECTION Boris is in fifth place in ConHome next leader survey.

    Beaten into fifth place by Liam Fox.

    The shame. THE SHAME.

    Further evidence that Tory members shouldn't be allowed anywhere near the Tory leadership election process.

    Liam Fox in fourth place! For Fox's sake.

    (I'm not a fan of Liam Fox if you hadn't guessed)
    Can I pay £3 to vote for Gove or Fox please
    To become a Tory member, you'll have to stump up £25 a year

    Utter bargain if you ask me.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    And one by one they fall into line – party (and career) before country every time.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Better Off Out ‏@BetterOffOut 15m15 minutes ago
    Austria threatens to scupper Cameron's #EU negotiations over migrant row http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11837860/Austria-threatens-to-scupper-Camerons-EU-negotiations-over-migrant-row.html … via @Telegraph

    Lord Cornelius ‏@LordCornelius 4m4 minutes ago
    @BetterOffOut @AlanJohnson35 @Telegraph In that case we don't negotiate at all, just give notice of withdrawal and watch Brussels panic.

    Even pip-squeak Austria can threaten the UK, from behind an EU fence.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,496
    SimonStClare said:

    And one by one they fall into line – party (and career) before country every time.

    I'm sure they will all convince themselves that only by their presence in the shadow Cabinet will they mitigate the disaster that will be Dear Leader Corbyn.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,945
    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Bwahahaha.

    And lo, did the Creed of Morris prove true once again.
    The salivating fangs grew dry, tails fell between legs, and Labour backbenchers rolled over, meek as puppies (though not quite as dangerous).

    Maybe I'll be wrong. But so far Conservatives = wolves, Labour = sheep, Lib Dems = high students, is holding true.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    edited September 2015
    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,800
    As we've seen time and time again, it's not in the nature of labour politicians to seen to be against the leadership. Grumbles in private maybe, but anything in the open...no one questions the boss.
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
    Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,945
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
    Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society.

    William Hague (on Labour) in todays DT:

    "This is a tribe lost in a desert with no star to follow, and no inspirational leader to point to a new one. Across the world, parties that thrived on the socialist ideals of an industrialising society are losing their relevance, and what we are witnessing is a symptom and dramatic demonstration of that fact."
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Expediency wears many disguises, but doesn't fool many who are watching closely.
    SimonStClare said:

    And one by one they fall into line – party (and career) before country every time.

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
    Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society.

    Oh Lord - hyperbole rules ok :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    SimonStClare said:

    And one by one they fall into line – party (and career) before country every time.

    Quite: snivelling greasers the lot of them.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    Cyclefree said:

    SimonStClare said:

    And one by one they fall into line – party (and career) before country every time.

    Quite: snivelling greasers the lot of them.

    They're all Marxists at heart

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

    Groucho Marx
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Corbyn promises to release the painter or poet in everyone - compulsory kumbaya :wink:http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4544856.ece
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    You're right: a worthwhile opposition is essential. But Labour are not going to give us one seemingly.

    I don't much rate the others but Cooper has belatedly showed some signs of life.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Miss Cyclefree, she has, although her bigoted line on the evils of white men was entirely unacceptable.

    "Vote for me, I have ovaries" was a pathetic line to play, and five years of listening to that sort of nonsense would be almost as bad as Comrade Corbyn's communist calamity.

    Watched the Channel 4 piece with the quartet yesterday, and thought it was very much Corbyn Vs Cooper.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    Totally disagree as she did not provide a realistic solution to all the aspects of her aspiration.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,951
    Who will be the next Tory leader?

    Michael Gove - 100%

    George Osborne - 0%

    Boris Johnson - 0%

    Theresa May - 0%

    Sajid Javid - 0%

    Liam Fox - 0%

    Jeremy Hunt - 0%

    Nicki Morgan - 0%

    If Daily Mirror did GEs who would need Carlsburg!!

    JICIPM
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Matt turns the EU question on its head.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/
  • Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    edited September 2015
    felix said:

    Innocent_Abroad said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
    Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society.

    Oh Lord - hyperbole rules ok :)
    I didn't say when the process would be completed by

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    https://twitter.com/jpublik/status/638666426455359492
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,845
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    Andy Burnham sees refugees as a political bargaining chip !
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386
    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Yvette impressed me too yesterday TSE. After our Merkel love in last night people may well start getting suspicious here about our mutual affections.
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
    Leave her alone. I've just voted for her.

    Well technically my friend asked me for my opinion how she should vote and after listening to me, she gave Yvette her first preference, Kendall her second preference and left the other two blank.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    Rubbish - she was pandering to Labour's left-wing. It's been patently obvious for some time that the best way to encourage mass migration way beyond Europe's capacity to cope is to let everyone in. If you want a UKIP revival that's just the ticket!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Cyclefree, she has, although her bigoted line on the evils of white men was entirely unacceptable.

    "Vote for me, I have ovaries" was a pathetic line to play, and five years of listening to that sort of nonsense would be almost as bad as Comrade Corbyn's communist calamity.

    Watched the Channel 4 piece with the quartet yesterday, and thought it was very much Corbyn Vs Cooper.

    I don't really like or rate her but out of the remaining 3 she is the best. But Labour is, frankly, in a terminal state if this is all they have to offer.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
    Leave her alone. I've just voted for her.

    Well technically my friend asked me for my opinion how she should vote and after listening to me, she gave Yvette her first preference, Kendall her second preference and left the other two blank.
    Bad advice Eagles.

    She should have left all 4 blank given the quality of the candidates.

    Even Osborne is better than this lot,

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.

    I think I may have misheard. Might be she wants to take in 10,000 in a month.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,845
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.

    Migrants is more accurate. There may well be a large amount of refugees in amongst the migrants, but it's a subset.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.

    I think I may have misheard. Might be she wants to take in 10,000 in a month.
    Lol

    it's Cooper speak, the numbers could mean anything 10 k, 120 k ?

    Merely rounding
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
    Leave her alone. I've just voted for her.

    Well technically my friend asked me for my opinion how she should vote and after listening to me, she gave Yvette her first preference, Kendall her second preference and left the other two blank.
    Bad advice Eagles.

    She should have left all 4 blank given the quality of the candidates.

    Even Osborne is better than this lot,

    Oh Field Marshal, I need to lie down. You've given Osborne a compliment after a fashion
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    Re the Germans complaining about Britain's stance over migration, did Germany consult with or even inform Britain that it was tearing up the Dublin Convention? If not, it can hardly complain if Britain behaves equally unilaterally.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    antifrank said:

    I agree that the losers need to give Jeremy Corbyn enough rope to hang himself. If I were Chuka Umunna (a startling idea all round) I would be looking in due course to set targets for the next round of elections in May: preventing the SNP getting an overall majority and making local council gains in England, for example. If by some mischance these were missed by some distance then one might feel more licence to express one's doubts about the electoral viability of the experiment.

    However, quite a few MPs have been burning their bridges with Jeremy Corbyn. Whether the Labour right can remain coherent is an open question.

    Little chance of that methinks, though it may be possible in English local elections.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.

    I think I may have misheard. Might be she wants to take in 10,000 in a month.
    Lol

    it's Cooper speak, the numbers could mean anything 10 k, 120 k ?

    Merely rounding
    Just mouthing inanities, a complete cardboard cutout.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Yvette Cooper said that we could take in 10,000 refugees in a month. Which we unarguably could do. And should do.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Corbyn is already undermined, and (assuming he does win the contest) his entire period as leader will be dominated by rumours and counter-rumours of plots, dissatisfaction, rows, sulking, traitors, defections, and all the associated entertainment which we we were treated to, in a much milder form, when Brown was PM.

    Umunna and the other figures on the sane wing of the Labour Party do have a difficult task ahead. They'll want to distance themselves as much as possible from the disaster without being too obviously disloyal, at least in public (I'm sure there will be oodles of juicy unattributed quotes from 'source close to...').
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
    Leave her alone. I've just voted for her.

    Well technically my friend asked me for my opinion how she should vote and after listening to me, she gave Yvette her first preference, Kendall her second preference and left the other two blank.
    Bad advice Eagles.

    She should have left all 4 blank given the quality of the candidates.

    Even Osborne is better than this lot,

    Oh Field Marshal, I need to lie down. You've given Osborne a compliment after a fashion
    I astounded myself Mr E.

    But Osborne would make a better LOTO in a kind of deviously pointless fashion than any of this quartet.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    But she can't count. She's innumerate. " we didn't spend too much"

    for all we know 10,000 in Cooper speak could be a number between 4 and 92337658.

    This isn't courage it's random number generation.
    Leave her alone. I've just voted for her.

    Well technically my friend asked me for my opinion how she should vote and after listening to me, she gave Yvette her first preference, Kendall her second preference and left the other two blank.
    That proves how bad she really is.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Miss Cyclefree, I'd definitely go Kendall 1. Whether I'd add Cooper in a theoretical 2nd place is tricky.

    She's clearly better than Burnham or Corbyn. But identity politics is a vile poison.

    Happily, being not even a £3 pretend Labour supporter, I don't have to grapple with that sort of question.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    tyson said:

    Yvette impressed me too yesterday TSE. After our Merkel love in last night people may well start getting suspicious here about our mutual affections.

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    You two are easily impressed
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. Antifrank, "Which we unarguably could do. And should do."

    Unarguably? One must refer you to yesterday's discussion on the matter :p
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    malcolmg said:

    antifrank said:

    I agree that the losers need to give Jeremy Corbyn enough rope to hang himself. If I were Chuka Umunna (a startling idea all round) I would be looking in due course to set targets for the next round of elections in May: preventing the SNP getting an overall majority and making local council gains in England, for example. If by some mischance these were missed by some distance then one might feel more licence to express one's doubts about the electoral viability of the experiment.

    However, quite a few MPs have been burning their bridges with Jeremy Corbyn. Whether the Labour right can remain coherent is an open question.

    Little chance of that methinks, though it may be possible in English local elections.
    There's little chance of either. The 2016 local elections are a rerun of the 2012 local elections, when Labour had a ten point lead in the polls in the wake of the Omnishambles budget. So Jeremy Corbyn (or whoever is Labour leader) is almost certainly going to start his electoral record with a drubbing.

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,929
    antifrank said:

    Yvette Cooper said that we could take in 10,000 refugees in a month. Which we unarguably could do. And should do.

    I can't see it being unarguable.

    There's quite a bit of argument about it already.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Antifrank, "Which we unarguably could do. And should do."

    Unarguably? One must refer you to yesterday's discussion on the matter :p

    I put a full stop between the two sentences in deference to that view. Let no one say that I don't listen to other views.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    rottenborough said:

    Innocent_Abroad said:

    rottenborough said:

    david_herdson said:

    I agree with Mike: I don't expect an early challenge to Corbyn. For him to be replaced, he needs to fail on his ability as a leader not as a candidate, when it's his qualities as a candidate that have proven attractive to the Labour electorate.

    The problem with coming over all loyal now is that many senior Labour figures have been saying how unelectable Corbyn is all Summer. It'll take some fancy footwork to row back from that post-election - though fancy verbal footwork is a key skill of the political climber. Even so, it's something of a catch-22: the longer that senior figures remain loyal, the harder it becomes to distance themselves from his leadership afterwards - but if they're not loyal, they risk any failure being attributed to their lack of support not Corbyn's lack of ability.

    Morning all,

    There is wild talk of a challenge (see Winterton a few days ago), but seems to me this is highly unlikely. Apart from anything else, who in Labour could face another leadership election this year (and the cost)? If there's a meltdown in next year's locals and Scots then the muttering will seriously begin.

    An alternative is the Cameron/Osborne come up with a HoC vote that so splits the party that Corbyn resigns (in utter relief no doubt) on a point of principle. Trident? Syria?

    In the meantime, those who are virulently anti-Corbyn would be best to keep their heads down for 12 months and develop some alternative ideas. It seems to be a fairly universal view that non of the three other candidates have remotely given the impression of a well worked out policy platform for 2020s Britain.
    Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society.

    William Hague (on Labour) in todays DT:

    "This is a tribe lost in a desert with no star to follow, and no inspirational leader to point to a new one. Across the world, parties that thrived on the socialist ideals of an industrialising society are losing their relevance, and what we are witnessing is a symptom and dramatic demonstration of that fact."
    Hard to take comment from the one politician that was worse than Brown
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Alanbrooke said:

    antifrank said:

    Yvette Cooper said that we could take in 10,000 refugees in a month. Which we unarguably could do. And should do.

    I can't see it being unarguable.

    There's quite a bit of argument about it already.
    There is no argument that we could do it.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited September 2015
    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.

    A win by an arch-Blairite and one of the prominent figures of New Labour? A narrative where that is the only success in a sea of electoral disasters won't dampen down the civil war.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    IA.

    "Well, that's also true for JC. And the reason is that class-based politics, which is what Labour was founded to promote, are dead and gone (the rich have won, totally and utterly - the rest of us live by their grace & favour). What we are seeing is the refeudalization of capitalist society."

    I sat in a cafe outside the casino in Monte Carlo yesterday and considered that I've never been anywhere where I've seen a more conspicuous show of wealth. It was like a fashion show for cars with a backdrop of a harbour bulging with private yachts.

    I wondered why such ostentation wasn't bad form anymore?

    The only thing I could come up with was that in the past big money was often inherited.The new money is largely self made. The Arabs discoved oil the internet threw up billionaires the Russians their oligarchs and any talented sportsman or media entertainer worth their salt made millions overnight. Not attractive in some ways but more of a meritocricy.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Alanbrooke said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.

    I think I may have misheard. Might be she wants to take in 10,000 in a month.
    Lol

    it's Cooper speak, the numbers could mean anything 10 k, 120 k ?

    Merely rounding
    The whole crisis can show what happens if you handle things incorrectly.

    Rightly or wrongly it is now open season for those wanting a better life. There seems to be an assumption if they can get into mainland europe they can stay.

    It's always funny when the BBC line up some foreign spokesman to give the expected soft soap sympathetic line, but the live interview goes somewhere else.

    Talking about the issue in Hungary. The person on five live started talking about the Roma who dont work and are out looking for better benefits in Europe.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,559
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Cyclefree, I'd definitely go Kendall 1. Whether I'd add Cooper in a theoretical 2nd place is tricky.

    She's clearly better than Burnham or Corbyn. But identity politics is a vile poison.

    Happily, being not even a £3 pretend Labour supporter, I don't have to grapple with that sort of question.

    MD, the only thing worse than Cooper is Kendall ( if you exclude Burnham ), she is lamentable, could talk for a day and say nothing. Three absolute stooges , so bad TSE could have beaten them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.

    Migrants is more accurate. There may well be a large amount of refugees in amongst the migrants, but it's a subset.
    Agreed. Some may be genuine asylum seekers but a large number are not, just people wanting a better life. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but not people who have some sort of special claim because of persecution.

    There are genuinely persecuted groups who have no future, no life in the Middle East and Europe should offer them refuge.

    The Arab world is fond of talking about honour. Well, it should do the honourable thing and offer to help fellow Arabs. If the Qataris have enough money for football and buying up London hotels they have enough money to help fellow suffering Arabs. Isn't charity meant to be one of the key obligations for Muslims?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,123
    Regarding the migrant crisis- this is the most pressing issue Europe has faced since the second world war. Forget China, Greece, the Euro, the UK's referendum- these pale into insignificance against dealing with the mass influx of migrants.

    This issue should be dominating the Labour leadership debate- not the anachronistic throwback to 1970's student politics that Corbyn represents. Labour is just making itself irrelevant- so well done to Yvette yesterday for speaking about it. If I hadn't voted for Andy already, she would have got my vote- just for that.

    As to our own Govt- I really do not know what the hell they are doing to engage with it at all, apart from sticking their heads in the sand. May's visit to Calais was quite frankly pathetic. Cameron just doesn't look like he's up to dealing with a crisis in his own kitchen, never mind the country.

    If things carry on we may well need to start thinking about a National Govt- not thinking about who the next Tory leader is. Europe may well need to develop new emergency governance arrangements too.

    At this moment in our history we need people of substance and vision. When I look at our lot, I despair, I really do. That is why Yvette impressed so much yesterday- at least she has the guts to speak about possible solutions.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.

    A win by an arch-Blairite and one of the prominent figures of New Labour? A narrative where that is the only success in a sea of electoral disasters won't dampen down the civil war.
    You're absolutely right.

    Correction: Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Sadiq Khan win in the London mayoral election.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    CIF - “Why I swam across the Mediterranean in solidarity with refugees.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/31/mediterranean-refugees-europeans-crisis


    peak virtue signalling ?
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    felix said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Roger said:

    listening to Nicky Morgan on radio it strikes me a vote for Corbyn isn't a shot to nothing. It's vital to have a serious opposition who can face up to these not very pleasant Ministers.

    However identikit the others at least they can appear on the media and give battle without being diverted by Hamas

    During the holidays we'd all forgotten what Tory ministers sounded like. Maybe this sort of interview will wake them up

    (I backed Yvette at 10/1 three weeks ago)

    I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette.
    Rubbish - she was pandering to Labour's left-wing. It's been patently obvious for some time that the best way to encourage mass migration way beyond Europe's capacity to cope is to let everyone in. If you want a UKIP revival that's just the ticket!
    She was also advocating a policy that stands to benefit the Labour Party's electoral fortunes, and she was unwilling to say anything about the need to integrate them that might offend the Muslim vote.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    MikeK said:

    Getting back to the real news:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34124142

    The government is set to announce "significant" changes to its planned rules on an in-out EU referendum.
    The changes will focus on the so-called purdah rules, which stop ministers using public money to campaign for one side, from 28 days before such a vote.
    ____________________

    Cameron twisting this way and that to get his way on the referendum.

    The fun will start when Corbyn gives the Shadow Cabinet a free vote on the EU. Cameron has opposed this for government ministers.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,625
    SimonStClare said:

    CIF - “Why I swam across the Mediterranean in solidarity with refugees.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/31/mediterranean-refugees-europeans-crisis


    peak virtue signalling ?

    "Why I swam across the Mediterranean in solidarity with refugees". Please load a map to see how ridiculous this claim is.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    This statement from Umunna reveals that he was not the bold leader that was sadly missing from the Labour leadership contest. He's just coming across to be as much a panderer as Andy Burnham is.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,386

    10,000 a year is different to 10,000 a day, so saying 10,000 is totally meaningless.

    I remember explaining concentration to someone in the HR department once (yes, really). A spoonful of sugar in a glass of water is obvious, a spoonful of sugar in a swimming pool, less so.

    Sorry, I must be in a grumpy mood. Time to get my anorak.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Hague make some good quotes in his Telegraph piece on Labour:

    "To the political law that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time he added Blair’s law – that you can make a very serious attempt at it. "

    "If there was an NVQ Level 1 in How To Run a Party, the crucial nature of the qualifying period to vote in a leadership election would be on the syllabus, possibly on the first page."

    "The weakness of the mainstream candidates to an extent unprecedented in any election in a major party in British parliamentary history."

    "In Britain and across Europe, it is left to fringe parties to prey on those dissatisfied with the vast and rapid changes in modern society."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,756
    Mr. StClare, maybe the swimmer was taking the piss?

    Mr. G, but Kendall's policy approach does at least acknowledge reality.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.

    A win by an arch-Blairite and one of the prominent figures of New Labour? A narrative where that is the only success in a sea of electoral disasters won't dampen down the civil war.
    Ken being mayor did not spark a civil war; nor did Tory leadership hopeful Boris.
  • GadflyGadfly Posts: 1,205
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    CD13 said:

    Mr Eagles,

    Did she say 10,000 per month? I only half-listened but in the the clip I saw it sounded like a total of 10,000, which would be a drop in the ocean.

    I note the BBC now use the generic term of 'refugees' rather than 'asylum seekers'.

    I think I may have misheard. Might be she wants to take in 10,000 in a month.
    KGM unsuccessfully tried to establish what she meant, primarily because she clearly hadn't thought it through. Essentially she seemed to be devolving the UK's immigration policy to local councils.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited September 2015
    SimonStClare said:

    CIF - “Why I swam across the Mediterranean in solidarity with refugees.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/aug/31/mediterranean-refugees-europeans-crisis


    peak virtue signalling ?

    Complete virtue signalling. If they really cared about the issue they could have spent the time, money and effort actually helping these migrants be fed and housed. But instead they do a purely symbolic act and then write about it in the Guardian.

    EDIT: And since when was the distance between Turkey and an island just off the coast of Turkey "across the Mediterranean"?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015
    tyson said:

    Regarding the migrant crisis- this is the most pressing issue Europe has faced since the second world war. Forget China, Greece, the Euro, the UK's referendum- these pale into insignificance against dealing with the mass influx of migrants.

    This issue should be dominating the Labour leadership debate- not the anachronistic throwback to 1970's student politics that Corbyn represents. Labour is just making itself irrelevant- so well done to Yvette yesterday for speaking about it. If I hadn't voted for Andy already, she would have got my vote- just for that.

    As to our own Govt- I really do not know what the hell they are doing to engage with it at all, apart from sticking their heads in the sand. May's visit to Calais was quite frankly pathetic. Cameron just doesn't look like he's up to dealing with a crisis in his own kitchen, never mind the country.

    If things carry on we may well need to start thinking about a National Govt- not thinking about who the next Tory leader is. Europe may well need to develop new emergency governance arrangements too.

    At this moment in our history we need people of substance and vision. When I look at our lot, I despair, I really do. That is why Yvette impressed so much yesterday- at least she has the guts to speak about possible solutions.

    Quit your whinging, and accept that 'hideously white' Italy needs to get with the new European Diversity Programme. Perhaps consider making your property portfolio available for those in need - that might help with your considerable guilt issues.

    And prepare for the imminent collapse of the Schengen Agreement.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,845
    antifrank said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.

    A win by an arch-Blairite and one of the prominent figures of New Labour? A narrative where that is the only success in a sea of electoral disasters won't dampen down the civil war.
    You're absolutely right.

    Correction: Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Sadiq Khan win in the London mayoral election.
    Zac's been telling Torys not to sound triumphant over the apparent impending Corbyn victory, because he - perhaps above all other Conservative politicians is going to gain the most from it. I bet he can't believe his luck.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,496
    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.

    Migrants is more accurate. There may well be a large amount of refugees in amongst the migrants, but it's a subset.
    Criminals is more accurate. They are evading our border controls.

    None of them are fleeing persecution in France that would justify our granting them asylum.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    :lol:
    Financier said:

    Hague make some good quotes in his Telegraph piece on Labour:

    "To the political law that you can’t fool all of the people all of the time he added Blair’s law – that you can make a very serious attempt at it. "

    "If there was an NVQ Level 1 in How To Run a Party, the crucial nature of the qualifying period to vote in a leadership election would be on the syllabus, possibly on the first page."

    "The weakness of the mainstream candidates to an extent unprecedented in any election in a major party in British parliamentary history."

    "In Britain and across Europe, it is left to fringe parties to prey on those dissatisfied with the vast and rapid changes in modern society."

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,716
    tyson said:

    Regarding the migrant crisis- this is the most pressing issue Europe has faced since the second world war. Forget China, Greece, the Euro, the UK's referendum- these pale into insignificance against dealing with the mass influx of migrants.

    This issue should be dominating the Labour leadership debate- not the anachronistic throwback to 1970's student politics that Corbyn represents. Labour is just making itself irrelevant- so well done to Yvette yesterday for speaking about it. If I hadn't voted for Andy already, she would have got my vote- just for that.

    As to our own Govt- I really do not know what the hell they are doing to engage with it at all, apart from sticking their heads in the sand. May's visit to Calais was quite frankly pathetic. Cameron just doesn't look like he's up to dealing with a crisis in his own kitchen, never mind the country.

    If things carry on we may well need to start thinking about a National Govt- not thinking about who the next Tory leader is. Europe may well need to develop new emergency governance arrangements too.

    At this moment in our history we need people of substance and vision. When I look at our lot, I despair, I really do. That is why Yvette impressed so much yesterday- at least she has the guts to speak about possible solutions.

    This is the most pressing issue the Arab world has faced which it is refusing to deal with and which it is seeking to dump on Europe. Any solution - both short and long-term - needs to involve the Arab world since they are the cause of it and it is there that any solution will have to be found.

    There are rich Arab governments and rich Arab countries with territory. Stop giving the Arab world a free pass from the problems they have created.

    If we're using WW2 analogies it would be like Europe dumping the millions of German refugees expelled from Eastern Europe onto the shores of Tunisia and Libya and Egypt and Lebanon and letting them get on with it.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    antifrank said:

    Yvette Cooper said that we could take in 10,000 refugees in a month. Which we unarguably could do. And should do.

    Please explain why and also how you strictly define a refugee.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,879
    MarqueeMark said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.

    Migrants is more accurate. There may well be a large amount of refugees in amongst the migrants, but it's a subset.
    Criminals is more accurate. They are evading our border controls.

    None of them are fleeing persecution in France that would justify our granting them asylum.
    There's nothing more British than choosing Blighty over France.

    I mean who'd want to live in France, it's full of French people
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    On the migrant crisis, I'm somewhat bemused by the criticism of the UK from some of our EU friends. Given that the UK didn't get involved in Schengen, thanks to Maggie, who argued trenchantly against it at the time, it's a bit rich to criticise the UK for not wanting to shoulder its 'fair share' of a problem which Schengen has greatly exacerbated.

    Incidentally, if you want a laugh, there's always some academic at the LSE to provide one:

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2013/04/16/thatcher-schengen/
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    DecrepitJohnL said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    antifrank said:

    Jeremy Corbyn really needs a Labour win in the London mayoral election.

    A win by an arch-Blairite and one of the prominent figures of New Labour? A narrative where that is the only success in a sea of electoral disasters won't dampen down the civil war.
    Ken being mayor did not spark a civil war; nor did Tory leadership hopeful Boris.
    Err, I think you've missed the point...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    Alanbrooke

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

    Groucho Marx "




    Groucho-"What!! You've got 14 kids??"

    Mrs Rosenboum "Yes I have. I love my husband...."

    Groucho-"Well I love my cigar but I take it out one in a while"
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited September 2015
    Financier said:

    antifrank said:

    Yvette Cooper said that we could take in 10,000 refugees in a month. Which we unarguably could do. And should do.

    Please explain why and also how you strictly define a refugee.
    The UK already has an existing housing shortage, and infrastructure shortcomings.

    Where exactly will these extra 120,000 people a year, go? A refugee camp larger than the city of Bath on Salisbury Plain or the Scottish Highlands maybe?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,845
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. CD13, there's a petition for the BBC to say refugees rather than migrants.

    Migrants is more accurate. There may well be a large amount of refugees in amongst the migrants, but it's a subset.
    Criminals is more accurate. They are evading our border controls.

    None of them are fleeing persecution in France that would justify our granting them asylum.
    There's nothing more British than choosing Blighty over France.

    I mean who'd want to live in France, it's full of French people
    They might gain a bit more sympathy if they'd form an orderly queue instead of disrupting the chunnel.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    On the migrant crisis, I'm somewhat bemused by the criticism of the UK from some of our EU friends. Given that the UK didn't get involved in Schengen, thanks to Maggie, who argued trenchantly against it at the time, it's a bit rich to criticise the UK for not wanting to shoulder its 'fair share' of a problem which Schengen has greatly exacerbated.

    Incidentally, if you want a laugh, there's always some academic at the LSE to provide one:

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2013/04/16/thatcher-schengen/

    Merkel really does have a nerve expecting the UK to take in thousands to keep her precious Schengen Agreement alive.

    Better Off Out should be pushing this, if they can ever get their act into gear.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,770
    Eagle


    "I like Yvette. Really impressed me yesterday over Syrian refugees.

    Takes balls to say she wants 10,000 refugees a month in this present political climate.

    Huzzah for Yvette."

    My feelings too and when you hear loathsome creatures like Nicky Morgan you realize what a bit of humanity is worth. What's more if it's not too late it'll do her campaign a power of good.
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