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The long term favourite for the 2028 White House race may not even run – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,169
edited May 26 in General
The long term favourite for the 2028 White House race may not even run – politicalbetting.com

JD Vance, now the lone dove in Donald Trump's cabinet after Tulsi Gabbard's resignation, has been left more isolated than ever and is even considering abandoning a run for the presidency in 2028, multiple sources tell the Daily Mail.Vance's most senior non-interventionist ally… https://t.co/wfIdudN1rD

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Well
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    GREENS announce Sarah Wakefield, a councillor on Manchester City Council, as new candidate in Makerfield by-election
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193
    Trump seems to like his son-in-law, Kushner, more than either of his sons.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    Sofa, so good for Little Marco.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    Let's see if Trump survives in the White House until 2028.

    If Trump were to have a stroke/die in office, then the Trump Crime Family's expected free run to keep their vast wealth will be robbed of the Presidential Pardon it will otherwise need to keep it from a veanguful Congress.

    Vance could still give that - in exchange for the Trump family agreeing to leave the stage of domestic politics. (They would still be rich enough to go and buy Cuba...)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    The only candidate they need in 2028 is already in office...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589

    Trump seems to like his son-in-law, Kushner, more than either of his sons.

    They all get a place at the trough, though.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Is 'dove' a new euphemism for 'Putin patsy?'

    Because if so I think they've forgotten Trump himself.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    edited May 26
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    As I said, that's far more effective sabotage.

    Just look at how the DfE first slipped centralisation through with Gove's academies programmes and have managed to force through further academisation under Labour.

    And they're not even particularly able, even by the standards of civil servants.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
    Would it ?

    An abortive coup attempt would see him eviscerated by MAGA, and he probably cares little about a fractional improvement in his reputation with Democrats.

    He has quite a lot to lose. It will take a big further deterioration in Trump's health to make it at all likely.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,905
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,905
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,646
    Vance protesting too much, for a purpose, methinks.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
    Or...a bunch of very rich malevolent ones.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 26
    Scott_xP said:

    @jk_rowling

    Every other day a new motorhome appears in my mother-in-law's drive and Neil hands me another bucket full of jewellery and cosmetics. I can only assume he's got himself a part time job I'm too busy to ask about.

    According to her defenders on tw@tter, the reason she knew nothing, she only passed her driving test in her 50s....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    As I said, that's far more effective sabotage.

    Just look at how the DfE first slipped centralisation through with Gove's academies programmes and have managed to force through further academisation under Labour.

    And they're not even particularly able, even by the standards of civil servants.
    Civil servants aside, who in this Government looked at Gove's acadamisation programme and thought, well that's a really good, value for money, idea?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
    Yes, and a lot of knuckle draggers in Congress, Senate, State governments etc.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,564
    A newly elected Reform UK councillor in Kirklees is facing mounting backlash over alleged social media posts that target LGBTQ+ people and Muslim people, including one post that appeared to add “pedosexual” to the LGBTQ+ acronym.

    As reported by Yorkshire Live, Tracy Clayton, who won a seat representing Colne Valley West earlier this month, has been linked to an X account that allegedly shared memes targeting transgender women, AI-generated political imagery, and posts about Muslim communities.

    One resurfaced image posted in March, just weeks before the local election, featured the slur-like addition of “pedosexual” to the LGBTQ+ acronym, echoing a long-running false trope used to associate queer people with child abuse.

    The account, reportedly operating under the name “Tracy Clayton Reform UK,” also shared posts questioning climate change and reposted content critics described as racist and discriminatory. Clayton has so far declined to comment publicly, responding “no comment” when approached at a council meeting.

    A post from the same account published on 11 May, after the backlash began, said: “All the people that have attacked me, your narrative is boring.”

    Clayton is now the second Reform UK councillor elected in Colne Valley West to face scrutiny over alleged social media activity. Fellow newly-elected councillor Stefan Dransfield was recently criticised over a resurfaced 2020 Facebook post under his name showing an Asian man being punched with the caption “very satisfying.”


    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/reform-councillor-faces-backlash-over-posts-mocking-trans-people-and-lgbtq-acronym/ar-AA23J7z1?apiversion=v2&domshim=1&noservercache=1&noservertelemetry=1&batchservertelemetry=1&renderwebcomponents=1&wcseo=1
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916
    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    Hopefully Starmer doesn't die laughing before telling Swinney it is refused
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
    I always assumed part of the reason for Vance as VP is that he has no base, so isn’t a threat to Trump.

    Pence, because he has (weird) principles, actually had a few friends.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    edited May 26
    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916
    Christopher Harborne, the source of 2/3 of Reform's income, is suing Ben Habib, founded of rival party Advance UK: https://caseboard.io/cases/c734ebdc-27a4-4de6-a30d-2a5ef385db0e
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
    Enabled by a considerable number of senators and congresspeople of knuckle dragging stupidity, of course.

    There is a handful of smart people in Trump's cabinet - alongside the Hegseths and RFK Jnrs.
    There may even be a few in Congress.
  • Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    The Blob does exist and exists at every level above parish council. Try pushing something though a district council or a National Park Authority that the officers don't want to do. They will even act against clear facts. I saw this on Cumbria over animal health. I saw it on South Lakeland over a flood relief scheme in Kendal, I saw it on Yorkshire Dales over the dating of a house. The last one was funny because that is my personal expertise. I saw it on Yorkshire Dales as to whether there was a hedge in a certain place in 2001 or whether it was a fence. That was funny as well because an officer voting lacky Secretary of State member then played hell with me for putting the facts ahead of the officer wishes.

    The blob does exist.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Not much.
    I believe it's been tried elsewhere and failed for those reasons. There are dozens of ways to game it - and it's also seriously unfair to those who are unable to take advantage.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Sounds attractive, at first glance, but a moments thought ........

    Ah, we're thinking about Reform here.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,623

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    As well as all the other objections, what's the appeal of this tax-free overtime to self-employed small businesses and tradespeople, many of whom I suspect are fans of Reform?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,672
    Morning all :)

    First, and briefly, as someone who worked in local Government for a time, you can't actively oppose a policy directive from the ruling administration but it doesn't work like that.

    If the ruling group puts forward a policy, it's not your job to oppose it but it is your job to point out the "unintended consequences" of the policy which has often not been thought to a logical conclusion. The argument in a paper or report if you do A, it will lead to B and C is not discrediting the policy per se but pointing out the implications in other areas.

    If the ruling group decides it wants to pursue the policy even in the light of these implications, then it's the job of Officers to see the policy implemented but Members can't then argue they weren't told or didn't know if they pursued A, B or C would happen.

    It doesn't work like that either - usually, when the unintended consequences are spelt out, the policy is modified.

    The one thing as an Officer you must never do is criticise the ruling group and its policy publicly - that's a hanging offence. Point out the imperfections privately, either in meeting or by report or paper. Very often, there are legal considerations which undermine some of the policy thinking and make it difficult if not impossible to implement.

    On to other things and you can tell summer is coming when I start sneezing (not yet), my Derby hope is still rounding Tattenham Corner as the winner crosses the line (to come) and we start getting reports of large numbers of migrants crossing the Channel on small boats. Oddly enough, for what I thought would have been perfect conditions to make a Channel crossing, I've seen no mention of numbers. I'd have thought there would easily have been 1,000 crossing yesterday or, whisper it quietly, perhaps the Starmer Government'spolicy is working.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,076
    Brilliant!!

    "The Japanese government has pledged to suspend an 8% sales tax on food but says it is being thwarted by an unexpected opponent – uncooperative cash registers.

    According to the devices’ manufacturers, the systems at big retail chains that process everything from cash to cardless transactions were never designed to calculate a tax rate of zero and so they require a major overhaul that could take up to a year."
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,131

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    As well as all the other objections, what's the appeal of this tax-free overtime to self-employed small businesses and tradespeople, many of whom I suspect are fans of Reform?
    Perhaps they're trying to widen their appeal.
    Just seems wide open for dodgy tax avoidance.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Nigelb said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Not much.
    I believe it's been tried elsewhere and failed for those reasons. There are dozens of ways to game it - and it's also seriously unfair to those who are unable to take advantage.
    It's almost specifically designed for grifters. Like Farage,

    How much tax would he pay on his £5m?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916
    Dopermean said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    As well as all the other objections, what's the appeal of this tax-free overtime to self-employed small businesses and tradespeople, many of whom I suspect are fans of Reform?
    Perhaps they're trying to widen their appeal.
    Just seems wide open for dodgy tax avoidance.
    I think Reform already represent people who like dodgy tax avoidance. Maybe they should try widening their appeal to people who don't avoid taxes dodgily?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Icarus said:

    Brilliant!!

    "The Japanese government has pledged to suspend an 8% sales tax on food but says it is being thwarted by an unexpected opponent – uncooperative cash registers.

    According to the devices’ manufacturers, the systems at big retail chains that process everything from cash to cardless transactions were never designed to calculate a tax rate of zero and so they require a major overhaul that could take up to a year."

    Why not make it a 0.1% or 1% tax if it can't do 0 rather than wait a year?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    As well as all the other objections, what's the appeal of this tax-free overtime to self-employed small businesses and tradespeople, many of whom I suspect are fans of Reform?
    The only Proper Jobs are the ones where everyone clocks in and clocks out and flirtatious banter with the prettier members of the typing pool is a perk of the job.

    The rest of us are the reason the country has gone to the dogs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
  • stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, and briefly, as someone who worked in local Government for a time, you can't actively oppose a policy directive from the ruling administration but it doesn't work like that.

    If the ruling group puts forward a policy, it's not your job to oppose it but it is your job to point out the "unintended consequences" of the policy which has often not been thought to a logical conclusion. The argument in a paper or report if you do A, it will lead to B and C is not discrediting the policy per se but pointing out the implications in other areas.

    If the ruling group decides it wants to pursue the policy even in the light of these implications, then it's the job of Officers to see the policy implemented but Members can't then argue they weren't told or didn't know if they pursued A, B or C would happen.

    It doesn't work like that either - usually, when the unintended consequences are spelt out, the policy is modified.

    The one thing as an Officer you must never do is criticise the ruling group and its policy publicly - that's a hanging offence. Point out the imperfections privately, either in meeting or by report or paper. Very often, there are legal considerations which undermine some of the policy thinking and make it difficult if not impossible to implement.

    On to other things and you can tell summer is coming when I start sneezing (not yet), my Derby hope is still rounding Tattenham Corner as the winner crosses the line (to come) and we start getting reports of large numbers of migrants crossing the Channel on small boats. Oddly enough, for what I thought would have been perfect conditions to make a Channel crossing, I've seen no mention of numbers. I'd have thought there would easily have been 1,000 crossing yesterday or, whisper it quietly, perhaps the Starmer Government'spolicy is working.

    On all the bodies I was involved with there was No Overall Control, in theory. In practice the officers were in control. When the officers lost control, as Yorkshire Dales 1998 to 2003 it was a different world
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    edited May 26

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    This is why the pb consensus has got it wrong in moaning about the Truss energy subsidies.

    If the bills were uncapped and rose to £4-5k averages*, millions would be unable to pay. Seeing that millions werent paying, another couple of million more would then refuse to pay. The suppliers can't cut them off, there isn't enough court time to deal with the cases even where people could pay. The suppliers still have to supply and pay for energy themselves and would go bankrupt creating chaos that would bring down a government faster than we already do.

    * Would have been the case during the initial Ukraine crisis, not the case today.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    Yesterday I happened upon a record of my electricity charges from 2015. It's a third higher than it was then and we're living in exactly the same way!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    This is why the pb consensus has got it wrong in moaning about the Truss energy subsidies.

    If the bills were uncapped and rose to £4-5k averages*, millions would be unable to pay. Seeing that millions werent paying, another couple of million more would then refuse to pay. The suppliers can't cut them off, there isn't enough court time to deal with the cases even where people could pay. The suppliers still have to supply and pay for energy themselves and would go bankrupt creating chaos that would bring down a government faster than we already do.

    * Would have been the case during the initial Ukraine crisis, not the case today.
    It's an example of the old adage that if you owe the bank £1000 and can't pay, that's your problem, but if you owe the bank £1000000 and can't pay, that's the bank's problem.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,564
    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,057

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    Summer starts by about 20th May in my opinion. Certainly by the last week in the month. 1st June is too late.
  • Focus groups are “decent” for Burnham I would say, Ashcroft
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
    I've occasionally wondered that. Not unknown in UK, of course.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,989

    Icarus said:

    Brilliant!!

    "The Japanese government has pledged to suspend an 8% sales tax on food but says it is being thwarted by an unexpected opponent – uncooperative cash registers.

    According to the devices’ manufacturers, the systems at big retail chains that process everything from cash to cardless transactions were never designed to calculate a tax rate of zero and so they require a major overhaul that could take up to a year."

    Why not make it a 0.1% or 1% tax if it can't do 0 rather than wait a year?
    They're considering 1%, the downside being that everyone needs to faff with their systems twice, once for the temporary 1% then again for the eventually intended 0%.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442
    Icarus said:

    Brilliant!!

    "The Japanese government has pledged to suspend an 8% sales tax on food but says it is being thwarted by an unexpected opponent – uncooperative cash registers.

    According to the devices’ manufacturers, the systems at big retail chains that process everything from cash to cardless transactions were never designed to calculate a tax rate of zero and so they require a major overhaul that could take up to a year."

    Hopefully they're reducing the sales tax to 1% or less whilst the work's being done.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,185

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    You can put her on prison but you can't give her at least one brain cell

    Evil bitch
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    Though most of the arab countries currently involved in wars of Trump's making cannot be described as democracies the one thing their rulers take notice of is what they call 'The Arab Street'.

    Trump decided as part of his latest peace plan to try to get Israrel's neighbours to sign a friendship accord with them! None of the commentators in the US nor the UK seem very attuned to what's going on. They see it a bit like our ex-pat in Dubai. That is to say blindfolded.

    Anyway amidst the fog this guy is about as accurate as it gets and he reckons the Trump plan is going nowhere.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqWs6JjRVB8
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442

    Icarus said:

    Brilliant!!

    "The Japanese government has pledged to suspend an 8% sales tax on food but says it is being thwarted by an unexpected opponent – uncooperative cash registers.

    According to the devices’ manufacturers, the systems at big retail chains that process everything from cash to cardless transactions were never designed to calculate a tax rate of zero and so they require a major overhaul that could take up to a year."

    Why not make it a 0.1% or 1% tax if it can't do 0 rather than wait a year?
    They're considering 1%, the downside being that everyone needs to faff with their systems twice, once for the temporary 1% then again for the eventually intended 0%.
    Doesn't sound as if their sales tax is actually what we'd call a Variable.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,057

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
    I've occasionally wondered that. Not unknown in UK, of course.
    Yesterday, Thomas Massie filed to run for his Kentucky House seat in the midterms after losing his primary to Trump backed Gallrein. It sets a precedent.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411
    edited May 26
    Brixian59 said:

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    You can put her on prison but you can't give her at least one brain cell

    Evil bitch
    One can see why people scratch heir heads sometimes, though.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Their voters too busy washing their hair motorhomes?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,916
    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    Is that a reference to the reluctance of customers to pay their bills with the enormous standing charges, or the refusal of energy companies to refund credit balances running sometimes into thousands of pounds?

    Or are EDF just trying to get on the front foot after British Gas admitted falsifying court paperwork to obtain warrants to force fit prepayment meters without lawful reason in case they are also hit with a more or less nominal fine and unspecified compensation that they'll conveniently forget to pay?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.

    One reason it is rather a shame that Philippson replaced Rayner as Labour's education wonk is that despite some drawbacks over her schools policies Rayner did actually have some excellent ideas about lifelong learning.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
    Would it ?

    An abortive coup attempt would see him eviscerated by MAGA, and he probably cares little about a fractional improvement in his reputation with Democrats.

    He has quite a lot to lose. It will take a big further deterioration in Trump's health to make it at all likely.
    No sure a deterioration to death and beyond would cause MAGA to doubt His Infinite Wisdom.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,076
    ydoethur said:

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    Is that a reference to the reluctance of customers to pay their bills with the enormous standing charges, or the refusal of energy companies to refund credit balances running sometimes into thousands of pounds?

    Or are EDF just trying to get on the front foot after British Gas admitted falsifying court paperwork to obtain warrants to force fit prepayment meters without lawful reason in case they are also hit with a more or less nominal fine and unspecified compensation that they'll conveniently forget to pay?
    The energy companies often quote the level of arrears but rarely the amount that customers are in credit with them - i suspect the two numbers might be similar. I pay by direct debit - but the amount due each month.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,208
    edited May 26
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?

    I was thinking the same thing last night. Cornyn must be sorely tempted if he loses today given Trump's late intervention in support of Paxton. Backing a candidate with a proven history of corruption who has been impeached against a senior sitting Republican is going to piss off a lot of GOP voters in Texas and the Democratic candidate cannot possibly be characterised as a "loony radical lefty"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    OllyT said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?

    I was thinking the same thing last night. Cormyn must be sorely tempted if he loses today given Paxton's proven history of corruption and his impeachment.
    The thing is, that would more or less guarantee the Democrats would win the seat. Which would make him very unpopular.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    According to Accuweather, the whole of June is going to be relatively cool. No really hot days like now.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 26

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    There was a quite a staggering amount of xenophobia about Benhard Janse van Rensburg selection. Mainstream pundits taking about taking good English lads place in the squad as if he is the first foreign born player to ever to play rugby for England.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
    I've occasionally wondered that. Not unknown in UK, of course.
    Yesterday, Thomas Massie filed to run for his Kentucky House seat in the midterms after losing his primary to Trump backed Gallrein. It sets a precedent.
    It depends on the state - but many have "sore loser" rules which prevent primary losers running.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sore_loser_law

    But even in those circumstances, you can still run a write in campaign...

    Alaskan voters spell Murkowski W-I-N-N-E-R
    https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/alaskan-voters-spell-murkowski-w-i-n-n-e-r/
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559

    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.

    The insistence on endless retakes of GCSE Maths and English for people who are neither suited nor interested isn't helping either.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Maguire better at head ball, as he has a bonce "the size of a small country".
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    ydoethur said:

    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.

    One reason it is rather a shame that Philippson replaced Rayner as Labour's education wonk is that despite some drawbacks over her schools policies Rayner did actually have some excellent ideas about lifelong learning.
    And this goes beyond learning. We have a huge skills deficit and it's been growing for decades. Despite the success of first Thatcher and then Blair in recruiting the blue collar voters we appear to have wholly abandoned that entire cohort of trades over time. It's better in Scotland but still not great.

    For me the Rayner housebuilding target was a case in point. Who was going to build 1.5m houses? We don't have enough trained people as it is, never mind to allow a vast expansion of construction. So a joined up plan to open the colleges to train the people to build the houses was needed, not a couple of photocalls with her in hi-vis.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,452

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    Since we got solar panels our electricity supplier has started to pay us rather than the other way round. Although I note that so far this seems to involve applying a "credit" to our account rather than sending us any actual money! So perhaps the "culture of non-payment" goes both ways...
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,185
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    If Kemi continues with her insane drill baby drill lunacy trying to convince any one and everyone it will make any short term impact a staggering post 2029 thought emerges.

    Aberdeen could be the most southerly Tory seat left.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    "Why a brave choice"? A ridiculous choice i'd say if he really was party to what was said yesterday. Even fascist morons have daughters wives and girlfriends and what the plumber said/endorsed was pretty shocking
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    I see the Greens have selected someone from Manchester named after a city in Yorkshire.
    Clearly a paper candidate, then.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,057
    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?

    I was thinking the same thing last night. Cormyn must be sorely tempted if he loses today given Paxton's proven history of corruption and his impeachment.
    The thing is, that would more or less guarantee the Democrats would win the seat. Which would make him very unpopular.
    He could pitch it that he is the real traditional Republican and that Paxton has been forced on Texas by Trump who is RINO. It would be an anti-Trump election and Cornyn would be seeking tactical votes from Democrats.

    Cornyn would be hated by core Maga types but they are a diminishing minority and he wouldn't care.

    He'd need to hire an armed guard though.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,076

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    If farage doesn't become PM will Harborne ask for his money back?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442

    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.

    It saddens me immensely that young children can be removed from school, supposedly for home schooling, and just left to fall through the cracks. Personally I only know of one family where this is happening, but it makes me wonder how many families like this there are throughout the UK.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,945

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    This is why the pb consensus has got it wrong in moaning about the Truss energy subsidies.

    If the bills were uncapped and rose to £4-5k averages*, millions would be unable to pay. Seeing that millions werent paying, another couple of million more would then refuse to pay. The suppliers can't cut them off, there isn't enough court time to deal with the cases even where people could pay. The suppliers still have to supply and pay for energy themselves and would go bankrupt creating chaos that would bring down a government faster than we already do.

    * Would have been the case during the initial Ukraine crisis, not the case today.
    The problem with the Truss energy subsidies (as noted on here many times) wasn't primarily that she doled out loads of government cash to pay the bills. It was that she did so in such a dumb way as to completely destroy the price signal.

    If she'd paid every household a lump sum equal to their previous year's electricity bill, in cash terms it would have resulted in a very similar distribution of cash, but households could have opted to reduce consumption and save money as well, thus reducing system demand.

    Alternatively, they could have given every household in the country £2k cash, then let the electricity price float free. That would benefit the poor more, most of them don't pay that much for electricity all year round, whilst the owners of heated outdoor swimming pools and the like would have been left to fend for themselves.

    Both of these options would have been vast improvements on the stupidity they actually deployed of straight up government price fixing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    Robert Jenrick is trying to hire a Chief Adviser to work with him in his Treasury shadow position.

    I’d suggest he needs to sooner rather than later
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    edited May 26
    theProle said:

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    This is why the pb consensus has got it wrong in moaning about the Truss energy subsidies.

    If the bills were uncapped and rose to £4-5k averages*, millions would be unable to pay. Seeing that millions werent paying, another couple of million more would then refuse to pay. The suppliers can't cut them off, there isn't enough court time to deal with the cases even where people could pay. The suppliers still have to supply and pay for energy themselves and would go bankrupt creating chaos that would bring down a government faster than we already do.

    * Would have been the case during the initial Ukraine crisis, not the case today.
    The problem with the Truss energy subsidies (as noted on here many times) wasn't primarily that she doled out loads of government cash to pay the bills. It was that she did so in such a dumb way as to completely destroy the price signal.

    If she'd paid every household a lump sum equal to their previous year's electricity bill, in cash terms it would have resulted in a very similar distribution of cash, but households could have opted to reduce consumption and save money as well, thus reducing system demand.

    Alternatively, they could have given every household in the country £2k cash, then let the electricity price float free. That would benefit the poor more, most of them don't pay that much for electricity all year round, whilst the owners of heated outdoor swimming pools and the like would have been left to fend for themselves.

    Both of these options would have been vast improvements on the stupidity they actually deployed of straight up government price fixing.
    Unfortunately if they gave every household in the country £2k on cash, in several million households it would be spent on other things, and energy bills would still go unpaid and suppliers would go bust.

    An energy voucher might have worked.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Maguire better at head ball, as he has a bonce "the size of a small country".
    For PB's egg-chasing community, that means Maguire is useful at set pieces.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    Most grifters are thinking of the next grift.

    I’ll bet ol’ Nigel is thinking “£10 million next time…”
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323
    Russia: reports of a "split" on whether or not to end Russia's war on Ukraine
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z46zT1tGhs4

    BBC's Steve Rosenberg reviews the Russian papers in 4½ minutes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    Many staff in the private sector work overtime and expectation is it is unpaid just to get the job done.

    This wheeze of Reforms reminds me of Blair’s ‘Fallacy of Popular Policies’. It would be a perfect fit for it.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,672

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, and briefly, as someone who worked in local Government for a time, you can't actively oppose a policy directive from the ruling administration but it doesn't work like that.

    If the ruling group puts forward a policy, it's not your job to oppose it but it is your job to point out the "unintended consequences" of the policy which has often not been thought to a logical conclusion. The argument in a paper or report if you do A, it will lead to B and C is not discrediting the policy per se but pointing out the implications in other areas.

    If the ruling group decides it wants to pursue the policy even in the light of these implications, then it's the job of Officers to see the policy implemented but Members can't then argue they weren't told or didn't know if they pursued A, B or C would happen.

    It doesn't work like that either - usually, when the unintended consequences are spelt out, the policy is modified.

    The one thing as an Officer you must never do is criticise the ruling group and its policy publicly - that's a hanging offence. Point out the imperfections privately, either in meeting or by report or paper. Very often, there are legal considerations which undermine some of the policy thinking and make it difficult if not impossible to implement.

    On to other things and you can tell summer is coming when I start sneezing (not yet), my Derby hope is still rounding Tattenham Corner as the winner crosses the line (to come) and we start getting reports of large numbers of migrants crossing the Channel on small boats. Oddly enough, for what I thought would have been perfect conditions to make a Channel crossing, I've seen no mention of numbers. I'd have thought there would easily have been 1,000 crossing yesterday or, whisper it quietly, perhaps the Starmer Government'spolicy is working.

    On all the bodies I was involved with there was No Overall Control, in theory. In practice the officers were in control. When the officers lost control, as Yorkshire Dales 1998 to 2003 it was a different world
    My experience was very different - I worked in authorities where there was a clear majority.

    I imagine in an NOC environment it can be very different though NOC shouldn't mean anarchy - it simply means no one party has a majority. That doesn't stop an administration existing whether a minority or a coalition and it certainly shouldn't mean the Officers run the show.

    I did see instances of Officers wanting to be Members and set the strategic political direction and Members wanting to be Officers and getting involved in the minutiae of implementation and that's not how it should be. A clear Member-Officer protocol should exist defining everyone's rolesand responsibilties. Problems start when Officers and Members blur the lines, set up informal groups and try to take decisions outside the usual channels.
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