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A Streeting Named Desire – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,176
edited May 2 in General
A Streeting Named Desire – politicalbetting.com

In the 1990s the sign of an impending leadership contest was the installation of phone lines, these days it is being sent text messages/being added to WhatsApp groups.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,437
    A Plan For Government? That would be a refreshing change, at least...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,613
    I would like to state for the record I did NOT recently become a youth football coach in Scotland.

    Young East Lothian footballers slammed for 'explicit and misogynistic' t-shirts

    'This is very inappropriate for minors and raises serious concerns'


    An East Lothian youth football club has branded a photo of its players 'unacceptable'. The image, which was shared on Instagram, shows members of the Musselburgh Windsor team while they were taking part in a tournament in Barcelona for six days over the Easter holidays.

    The group are posing in t-shirts with slogans such as 'I love big t**s' and 'I love drunk girls'. The teenagers, aged 14-15, wore other tops including 'I love doggy style' and 'I love MILFS'.


    https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/young-east-lothian-footballers-slammed-33862976
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247

    Can I claim copyright on nicknaming Downing Street the "Wes Wing" if he gets it?

    I have never been on Team Streeting, but that's reason to wish he doesn't become PM if I had been undecided.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 1,076
    Was going to comment on the previous piece -"Who is Margot Robbie?" but think Wes's problem is that most of the country would say "Who is Wes Streeting?"
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,013
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx2gwpe9evo

    Superdry co-founder James Holder has been convicted of rape.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,613

    Can I claim copyright on nicknaming Downing Street the "Wes Wing" if he gets it?

    I have never been on Team Streeting, but that's reason to wish he doesn't become PM if I had been undecided.
    I am on Team Streeting as I think out of all the contenders he as the post punnable name.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,564
    edited May 2
    FPT

    Here’s a thought that made a political consultant turn pale when I suggested it to him.

    When you make a promise to subsidise the *production* of something - such as Wh of zero emission power for vehicles (batteries without naming the tech) - you do it via a kind of government security.

    So if you produce nothing, you get no return. If you produce something, you get a subsidy per Watt Hour, scaled according to U.K. content.

    Why make it a government security? - well, it makes changing/abolishing it a default. Tying the hands of your successors.

    And they would cost next to nothing to issue *now* - but 10 years down the line the money becomes due.

    The ultimate cheap boiled sweet of government finance.

    We could call it the “Metallurgical Research Corporation”
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282
    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,887
    edited May 2

    Can I claim copyright on nicknaming Downing Street the "Wes Wing" if he gets it?

    I have never been on Team Streeting, but that's reason to wish he doesn't become PM if I had been undecided.
    I am on Team Streeting as I think out of all the contenders he as the post punnable name.
    But I wanna know, have you ever seen the Rayner
    Falling down in the Strangers Bar
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247
    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,349
    Great story which proves that Starmer is toast. When the plans to oust you are multiple and credible and already being enacted, its just a matter of time...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,282

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,564
    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    I don’t think the problem was having a large majority and not using it. The, IMHO, was having negative values on his political instincts - starting with WFA as a big policy was insane.

    Starmer stretched the political coalition that is the Labour Party until it snapped.

    A cleverer solution would have been a major re-work that used taxation (via taxable benefits) to give to the poorest pensioners, while getting it back from the richer ones. You could pitch that to the left and right.

    And so on. It’s about method, framing and groups effected.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,564

    Great story which proves that Starmer is toast. When the plans to oust you are multiple and credible and already being enacted, its just a matter of time...

    How many times did we ask @NickPalmer about the various coups against Brown?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949
    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,701
    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    The Conservatives once lost 2000 seats in a single night and their leader faced a challenge from one of the Cabinet.

    The leader survived but the damage was done.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247
    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,924
    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    Could well be 'or worse' in Scotland.

    Andrew Learmonth
    @andrewlearmonth
    EXC: New mega-poll predicts SNP majority as Labour falls to fourth behind Reform and Greens. Tories to come sixth.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2050464039029895196?s=20
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,554
    edited May 2
    Good morning everyone - a beautiful morning for clearing out the rubbish from the garden.

    This is fun. Iain Dale allowing one of Trump's Reverends to dig himself in deeper and deeper over the King Charles speech ('he should be kissing babies'). This is Mark Burns - not a faith adviser but a church founder then televangelist who reached Congress. It's wrapped with a bit of commentary at the end, but is nearly all verbatim.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0tde01tAxk

    It's not quite as much fun as Piers Morgan giving Russell Brand 2 minutes of silence to embarrass himself, though.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,627
    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    If Streeting goes for it asap he will likely get it. Who Dares Wins

    In other news I’ve finally resolved a debate which has vexed PB for decades, and led to much acrimony and bitterness. Yes. I actually have an answer to THE question: which is better, London or Kigali?

    It’s…. London. The British capital. Kigali has quite clean roundabouts and hillier areas, but London edges it in architecture, history, wealth, beauty, culture, parks, palaces, and supermarkets. It’s actually not even close
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,701
    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    As usual, I don't wholly agree.

    The key is coming into office with a programme and sticking to that programme - that was the lesson of both Heath after 1970 and Thatcher in 1979. The former backtracked when it all got too difficult while the latter stuck to her guns even when, for example in the autumn of 1981, it all looked very bad for her.

    In truth, neither Blair in 1997 nor Starmer in 2024 came into office with a radical programme (unlike Attlee for example in 1945 or even Campbell-Bannerman in 1906) or indeed much idea of how to significantly transform Britain for the better.

    Johnson in 2019 talked a radical plan but we'll never know if such a plan really existed.

    MY view on Starmer is similar to that of Mark Gatiss except I'm disappointed in how he's thrown away the political capital of a huge majority but the truth was (I suspect) for all the talk of "change", he and his team had no real idea what that "change" was and the timidity that caused has bedevilled everything. To be honest, given where they are now, had they decided to raise income tax or VAT, break their manifesto pledge and face the vitriol on July 5th 2024, I doubt they'd be in a worse state politically now and possibly a better one financially.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,831
    Leon said:

    If Streeting goes for it asap he will likely get it. Who Dares Wins

    In other news I’ve finally resolved a debate which has vexed PB for decades, and led to much acrimony and bitterness. Yes. I actually have an answer to THE question: which is better, London or Kigali?

    It’s…. London. The British capital. Kigali has quite clean roundabouts and hillier areas, but London edges it in architecture, history, wealth, beauty, culture, parks, palaces, and supermarkets. It’s actually not even close

    "VISIT RWANDA!" :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,831
    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    Leon said:

    If Streeting goes for it asap he will likely get it. Who Dares Wins

    I love this sort of juxtaposition.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,437
    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    As usual, I don't wholly agree.

    The key is coming into office with a programme and sticking to that programme - that was the lesson of both Heath after 1970 and Thatcher in 1979. The former backtracked when it all got too difficult while the latter stuck to her guns even when, for example in the autumn of 1981, it all looked very bad for her.

    In truth, neither Blair in 1997 nor Starmer in 2024 came into office with a radical programme (unlike Attlee for example in 1945 or even Campbell-Bannerman in 1906) or indeed much idea of how to significantly transform Britain for the better.

    Johnson in 2019 talked a radical plan but we'll never know if such a plan really existed.

    MY view on Starmer is similar to that of Mark Gatiss except I'm disappointed in how he's thrown away the political capital of a huge majority but the truth was (I suspect) for all the talk of "change", he and his team had no real idea what that "change" was and the timidity that caused has bedevilled everything. To be honest, given where they are now, had they decided to raise income tax or VAT, break their manifesto pledge and face the vitriol on July 5th 2024, I doubt they'd be in a worse state politically now and possibly a better one financially.
    I'm not sure your examples support your thesis. The two most politically successful PMs of recent decades were Thatcher and Blair, but you seem to be saying that while Thatcher did come in with a programme and stick to it, Blair didn't have a programme ? That suggests that the programme isn't the key factor.

    (Though I'm not sure I would agree about a Blair lack of programme, but taking it as so for purposes of argument.)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,327
    edited May 2

    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    Could well be 'or worse' in Scotland.

    Andrew Learmonth
    @andrewlearmonth
    EXC: New mega-poll predicts SNP majority as Labour falls to fourth behind Reform and Greens. Tories to come sixth.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2050464039029895196?s=20
    How do Labour end up behind the Greens when they’re far ahead of them on vote share in all recent polls.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,327

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    This seems to be ignored by Team Streeting .
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,493

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    The age old Labour problem - the only ones vaguely electable nationally are considered beyond the pale factionally.

    Rayner would be more comfortable as Labour leader in opposition, I feel. Wes, meanwhile, knows it is now or never. He probably won't win his seat unless he turns things around...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949
    edited May 2

    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    Could well be 'or worse' in Scotland.

    Andrew Learmonth
    @andrewlearmonth
    EXC: New mega-poll predicts SNP majority as Labour falls to fourth behind Reform and Greens. Tories to come sixth.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2050464039029895196?s=20
    I think that is bullshit, no other Holyrood poll has Labour behind the Greens. Though if the SNP do win a
    majority it might be one of a new PM Streeting's first acts to refuse indyref2 and tell Swinney to sod off
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,924
    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    Could well be 'or worse' in Scotland.

    Andrew Learmonth
    @andrewlearmonth
    EXC: New mega-poll predicts SNP majority as Labour falls to fourth behind Reform and Greens. Tories to come sixth.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2050464039029895196?s=20
    How do Labour end up behind the Greens when they’re far ahead of the, on vote share in all recent polls.
    The vagaries of the additional member system, very difficult to predict numbers. In the last 4 weeks I’ve seen projection saying the SNP will have a majority, others saying the SNP and Greens together won’t have one.
    Tr: it’s all over the place.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,564
    pm215 said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    As usual, I don't wholly agree.

    The key is coming into office with a programme and sticking to that programme - that was the lesson of both Heath after 1970 and Thatcher in 1979. The former backtracked when it all got too difficult while the latter stuck to her guns even when, for example in the autumn of 1981, it all looked very bad for her.

    In truth, neither Blair in 1997 nor Starmer in 2024 came into office with a radical programme (unlike Attlee for example in 1945 or even Campbell-Bannerman in 1906) or indeed much idea of how to significantly transform Britain for the better.

    Johnson in 2019 talked a radical plan but we'll never know if such a plan really existed.

    MY view on Starmer is similar to that of Mark Gatiss except I'm disappointed in how he's thrown away the political capital of a huge majority but the truth was (I suspect) for all the talk of "change", he and his team had no real idea what that "change" was and the timidity that caused has bedevilled everything. To be honest, given where they are now, had they decided to raise income tax or VAT, break their manifesto pledge and face the vitriol on July 5th 2024, I doubt they'd be in a worse state politically now and possibly a better one financially.
    I'm not sure your examples support your thesis. The two most politically successful PMs of recent decades were Thatcher and Blair, but you seem to be saying that while Thatcher did come in with a programme and stick to it, Blair didn't have a programme ? That suggests that the programme isn't the key factor.

    (Though I'm not sure I would agree about a Blair lack of programme, but taking it as so for purposes of argument.)
    Blair has a program - more money for hospitals and schools. While keeping to a budget. Clever triangulation was used - NIMBYs and Greens loved the gutting of road building.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    Leon said:

    If Streeting goes for it asap he will likely get it. Who Dares Wins

    I love this sort of juxtaposition.
    My thinking is: Streeting does not have the issues of Rayner or the obstacles of Burnham. He can move fast. The Mandelson stuff isn’t big enough to hurt him. After a terrible shoeing on May 7 - I suspect it will be historically bad - Labour MPs will be desperate for immediate change. Ed Miliband is yesterday’s failure

    If Streeting has the 81 MPs (and it seems he does) he can seize the crown. Yes his constituency is an issue but MPs will rightly believe that can be fixed in the next 3 years whereas Labour is drowning NOW

    I am prepared to look a total idiot on May 8
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,949

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    He can if Rayner doesn't get enough nominations
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889
    Mortimer said:

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    The age old Labour problem - the only ones vaguely electable nationally are considered beyond the pale factionally.

    Rayner would be more comfortable as Labour leader in opposition, I feel. Wes, meanwhile, knows it is now or never. He probably won't win his seat unless he turns things around...
    More importantly, right now his rivals for the leadership are other past it (Cooper, EdM), unavailable (Burnham, Rayner), or too callow (Jones, Phillipson etc). That sweet spot isn't going to last that long.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    It can't be long before we get "Downing Streeting"...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,144
    OT For non economists like me the significance of the petrodollar and why the latest withdrawl is so significant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yh3dlMFtoo
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889

    It can't be long before we get "Downing Streeting"...

    And then when it goes wrong (surely it will, I don't get the impression that many of the relevant people like Wes) "Drowning Streeting".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    edited May 2
    Mortimer said:

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    The age old Labour problem - the only ones vaguely electable nationally are considered beyond the pale factionally.

    Rayner would be more comfortable as Labour leader in opposition, I feel. Wes, meanwhile, knows it is now or never. He probably won't win his seat unless he turns things around...
    I thought Streeting had some politically questionable links to private medicine - certainly as far as the members will be concerned?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818
    Streeting is a younger Starmer?
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,989

    Wes Streeting will try but he won't win.

    In Labour land he is seen as "right wing".

    Might not be a bad thing, I think most of the left-wingers have left...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247
    edited May 2

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    Well, whatever. The question isn't whether Miliband would win a general election with an electorate of tens of millions. It's whether he'd win a leadership election with a nominating pool of 400-odd Labour MPs and an electorate of a couple of hundred thousand party members and however many trade union members.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    I think he could be reconsidered, but it's hard. Given his internal popularity they might risk it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818
    algarkirk said:

    stodge said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    As usual, I don't wholly agree.

    The key is coming into office with a programme and sticking to that programme - that was the lesson of both Heath after 1970 and Thatcher in 1979. The former backtracked when it all got too difficult while the latter stuck to her guns even when, for example in the autumn of 1981, it all looked very bad for her.

    In truth, neither Blair in 1997 nor Starmer in 2024 came into office with a radical programme (unlike Attlee for example in 1945 or even Campbell-Bannerman in 1906) or indeed much idea of how to significantly transform Britain for the better.

    Johnson in 2019 talked a radical plan but we'll never know if such a plan really existed.

    MY view on Starmer is similar to that of Mark Gatiss except I'm disappointed in how he's thrown away the political capital of a huge majority but the truth was (I suspect) for all the talk of "change", he and his team had no real idea what that "change" was and the timidity that caused has bedevilled everything. To be honest, given where they are now, had they decided to raise income tax or VAT, break their manifesto pledge and face the vitriol on July 5th 2024, I doubt they'd be in a worse state politically now and possibly a better one financially.
    One qualification. I don't think it's possible to get elected at the moment on a programme that is both clear and possible. All real programmes involve facing stuff voters in elections don't face.

    So the next best is to be elected on a broad platform, as Starmer was, and then within a few weeks announce that you have now examined the state of things from within government blah blah, and here is the programme, including all the issues voters don't vote for. You then have five years nearly to prove your worth. But the essential is that a small group of people have done the work before the election and had the rare ability to shut up about it.
    Sound. Depressing, but sound.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818

    nico67 said:

    HYUFD said:

    If Labour do perform poorly next week ie third or worse then Starmer will likely face a leadership challenge. On the latest news it seems Streeting aims to be a decisive Sunak in removing a PM hit by scandals and fading in popularity rather than a dithering Portillo or David Miliband

    Could well be 'or worse' in Scotland.

    Andrew Learmonth
    @andrewlearmonth
    EXC: New mega-poll predicts SNP majority as Labour falls to fourth behind Reform and Greens. Tories to come sixth.

    https://x.com/andrewlearmonth/status/2050464039029895196?s=20
    How do Labour end up behind the Greens when they’re far ahead of the, on vote share in all recent polls.
    The vagaries of the additional member system, very difficult to predict numbers. In the last 4 weeks I’ve seen projection saying the SNP will have a majority, others saying the SNP and Greens together won’t have one.
    Tr: it’s all over the place.
    Yes, makes for some excitement despite the broad levels of support being fairly predictable.

    I think SNP will be just shy of a majority.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,492

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    God help us if any of those turkeys get the job
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,890
    I suspect one of the usual no-hopers will be the first to announce an entirely unbacked run. Five minutes of fame and a slim chance of recognition with a ministerial post down the road. They will then of course withdraw after taking soundings. Some of them make the much missed Rehman Chishti look popular.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    Well, whatever. The question isn't whether Miliband would win a general election with an electorate of tens of millions. It's whether he'd win a leadership election with a nominating pool of 400-odd Labour MPs and an electorate of a couple of hundred thousand party members and however many trade union members.
    "Well, whatever" pretty much sums up Labour's options.

    Pick Miliband and the polls won't improve from Starmer. What then?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247
    malcolmg said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    God help us if any of those turkeys get the job
    I see no evidence of divine assistance while the present fowl is in office.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,630
    Roger said:

    OT For non economists like me the significance of the petrodollar and why the latest withdrawl is so significant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yh3dlMFtoo

    Haven't watched it, but is it commentary by a Texan?

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    nico67 said:

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    This seems to be ignored by Team Streeting .
    Wes Streeting's tiny majority is irrelevant. There won't be an election for three years, and that is as long or longer than many recent prime ministers have served: Brown, May, Boris, Truss, Rishi and Starmer (tbc). And if Labour loses in 2029 then either the PM's seat is lost or the leader resigns anyway, as is the modern custom; either way, there will be a new leader.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,401
    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    Betting on the next PM shows Angela Rayner still favourite ahead of the King of the North and the King of North Ilford who have both been supported overnight. Odds against Ed Miliband have lengthened.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818
    edited May 2

    nico67 said:

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    This seems to be ignored by Team Streeting .
    Wes Streeting's tiny majority is irrelevant. There won't be an election for three years, and that is as long or longer than many recent prime ministers have served: Brown, May, Boris, Truss, Rishi and Starmer (tbc). And if Labour loses in 2029 then either the PM's seat is lost or the leader resigns anyway, as is the modern custom; either way, there will be a new leader.
    Not being the most relevant is not the same as being entirely irrelevant.

    I think it has some relevance in that it would hang over his premiership as a constant question of whether he can save them if he cannot save himself.

    As has been noted it depends if a Gazan Indy was a flash in the pan.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,451

    nico67 said:

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    This seems to be ignored by Team Streeting .
    Wes Streeting's tiny majority is irrelevant. There won't be an election for three years, and that is as long or longer than many recent prime ministers have served: Brown, May, Boris, Truss, Rishi and Starmer (tbc). And if Labour loses in 2029 then either the PM's seat is lost or the leader resigns anyway, as is the modern custom; either way, there will be a new leader.
    As I keep saying, he'll win next time comfortably, anyway
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 22,102

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Yes, sounds plausible. If Streeting won I'd definitely switch to the Greens, and I suspect I wouldn't be alone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818

    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298

    I'm not sure what the GOP congress think their job even is, since they also pass very little legislation and definitely don't believe in checks and balances.

    What do they do with their time?
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    It can't be long before we get "Downing Streeting"...

    And then when it goes wrong (surely it will, I don't get the impression that many of the relevant people like Wes) "Drowning Streeting".
    Streeting Down, surely?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    This seems to be ignored by Team Streeting .
    Wes Streeting's tiny majority is irrelevant. There won't be an election for three years, and that is as long or longer than many recent prime ministers have served: Brown, May, Boris, Truss, Rishi and Starmer (tbc). And if Labour loses in 2029 then either the PM's seat is lost or the leader resigns anyway, as is the modern custom; either way, there will be a new leader.
    Not being the most relevant is not the same as being entirely irrelevant.

    I think it has some relevance in that it would hang over his premiership as a constant question of whether he can save them if he cannot save himself.
    I doubt it but even if you are right, if Labour does get hammered in the locals next week, anyone will look vulnerable, not just Wes.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,989

    However... Wes' majority here in da North Ilford Ghetto is only 528!

    As one of Labour's last remaining members and a single-issue proportional representation voter this gives me confidence he will do what needs to be done.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,247
    edited May 2

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    Well, whatever. The question isn't whether Miliband would win a general election with an electorate of tens of millions. It's whether he'd win a leadership election with a nominating pool of 400-odd Labour MPs and an electorate of a couple of hundred thousand party members and however many trade union members.
    "Well, whatever" pretty much sums up Labour's options.

    Pick Miliband and the polls won't improve from Starmer. What then?
    Replacing Truss with Sunak didn't ultimately do much to improve the Tories fortunes. They were polling in the low-20s when she was forced out and received 24% at the 2024GE. Should the Tories have left Truss in office as PM?

    Since none of the alternatives for PM seem to have a scooby about what to do differently (with the possible exception of Burnham) then the result would likely be the same as under Sunak. Labour MPs minds will quickly turn to how they are going to earn a living after the inevitable election defeat.

    I feel like very often on PB.com there are two different discussions going on. There's a discussion about what the optimal course of action might be. And then there's a discussion about what the most likely course of action is thought to be.

    These are very different things.

    I'd suggest that the optimal course of action for Labour would be to come up with a plan for fixing the country's ills, and then choose the person best able to implement that plan.

    My expectation is that they will end up choosing a new PM on the basis of that person not being various other people - not a friend of Mandelson, not being investigated by HMRC, not being ineligible for the contest, etc - and on providing gentle reassurance that everything is going to be okay. Miliband is the likely comfort blanket.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,401
    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    Wes Streeting's problem is not his small majority but that he is on the right of the party whereas most of the party (whose votes he will need) and his likely leadership rivals are from the soft left.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,144

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Yes, sounds plausible. If Streeting won I'd definitely switch to the Greens, and I suspect I wouldn't be alone.
    You wouldn't be alone. Anyone who herad him yesterday lunchtime would join us for sure.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Gaza does not seem to have been one of the available options. It's like tossing a coin, asking heads or tails, then triumphantly shouting that no-one chose, well, Gaza.

    In any case, as we saw with Brexit, the question is not what concerns voters but what determines their votes.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Gaza does not seem to have been one of the available options. It's like tossing a coin, asking heads or tails, then triumphantly shouting that no-one chose, well, Gaza.

    In any case, as we saw with Brexit, the question is not what concerns voters but what determines their votes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    edited May 2

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    Well, whatever. The question isn't whether Miliband would win a general election with an electorate of tens of millions. It's whether he'd win a leadership election with a nominating pool of 400-odd Labour MPs and an electorate of a couple of hundred thousand party members and however many trade union members.
    "Well, whatever" pretty much sums up Labour's options.

    Pick Miliband and the polls won't improve from Starmer. What then?
    Replacing Truss with Sunak didn't ultimately do much to improve the Tories fortunes. They were polling in the low-20s when she was forced out and received 24% at the 2024GE. Should the Tories have left Truss in office as PM?

    Since none of the alternatives for PM seem to have a scooby about what to do differently (with the possible exception of Burnham) then the result would likely be the same as under Sunak. Labour MPs minds will quickly turn to how they are going to earn a living after the inevitable election defeat.

    I feel like very often on PB.com there are two different discussions going on. There's a discussion about what the optimal course of action might be. And then there's a discussion about what the most likely course of action is thought to be.

    These are very different things.

    I'd suggest that the optimal course of action for Labour would be to come up with a plan for fixing the country's ills, and then choose the person best able to implement that plan.

    My expectation is that they will end up choosing a new PM on the basis of that person not being various other people - not a friend of Mandelson, not being investigated by HMRC, not being ineligible for the contest, etc - and on providing gentle reassurance that everything is going to be okay. Miliband is the likely comfort blanket.
    Leaving Truss in place would have wrecked the economy through the bond market. She had to go, regardless of the options to succeed her.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,492
    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    OT For non economists like me the significance of the petrodollar and why the latest withdrawl is so significant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yh3dlMFtoo

    Haven't watched it, but is it commentary by a Texan?

    It is interesting and obvious conclusion based on USA antics. They have shat in their own nest and will pay for it monetarily
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818
    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    And on council tax it is extremely rare anyone now will lower the rate, even freezing is tough.

    So the decision who to vote for will by necessity be based on other things.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    The key polling question Opinium did not ask is not Gaza or bin collections but how many voters think the Prime Minister is a prat. Sure, it is not within the council's purview but it will decide a lot more votes than potholes and playgrounds.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 9,134
    edited May 2

    Wes Streeting's problem is not his small majority but that he is on the right of the party whereas most of the party (whose votes he will need) and his likely leadership rivals are from the soft left.

    Hence why I think Miliband is value.

    If you've got Wes doing a Hezza and trying to seize the crown I think there will be a reaction from the soft-left and those in the cabinet seeking "unity" to find another candidate. I don't think Rayner is that unity candidate, but someone like Miliband could be (and potentially bring Rayner into the tent and get Burnham back into the Commons and into a high profile job). He is popular with members and can be pitched as palatable to all wings of the party. He also has the profile in a way that someone like Healey doesn't. Cooper would be another possible unity candidate, but she has been noticeably poor in her roles in government (not that this has stopped others before).
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Suspect the point about Gaza is not that it's a widely-shared voter concern, but that for a smallish but geographically-concentrated slice of the electorate, it's the issue.

    The bigger question is this. How do politicians do anything about the first three issues without upsetting people for who the fourth one is key?

    The political triumph of Reform is to convince a winning coalition of voters that there is so much waste and woke that it's possible to cut taxes and make people's surroundings better at the same time.

    The political failure of Reform is that... there isn't really.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,924

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Nor antisemitism, still, one more push by the right wing tabloids.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,383
    malcolmg said:

    geoffw said:

    Roger said:

    OT For non economists like me the significance of the petrodollar and why the latest withdrawl is so significant

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yh3dlMFtoo

    Haven't watched it, but is it commentary by a Texan?

    It is interesting and obvious conclusion based on USA antics. They have shat in their own nest and will pay for it monetarily
    The 19th Century mercantilists running Trump 2.0, Project 2025 and the GOP paid no regard to the dollar's value to the United States as reserve currency or trading currency. Nothing can replace it so anything can replace it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713

    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298

    R4 had Kurt Volker on this morning asking "who is to say what the correct number should be ?"
    Ignoring the obvious answer that Congress does that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Reuters Poll:

    Who blame Trump for rising US gas prices:

    Dems - 95%
    Indies - 82%
    Republicans - 55%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713
    kle4 said:

    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298

    I'm not sure what the GOP congress think their job even is, since they also pass very little legislation and definitely don't believe in checks and balances.

    What do they do with their time?
    Hold hearings into their political opponents.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,460
    pm215 said:

    A Plan For Government? That would be a refreshing change, at least...

    Except that it’s detailed enough to fit in a text message…
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,889

    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    The key polling question Opinium did not ask is not Gaza or bin collections but how many voters think the Prime Minister is a prat. Sure, it is not within the council's purview but it will decide a lot more votes than potholes and playgrounds.
    Reform have bought a wraparound ad on the Romford Recorder this week. Their front and back page message is "Get Labour Out". There's a letter from Nige on the inside pages, but who reads the inside pages?

    (Actually, who reads the Romford Recorder these days, apart from me?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713

    Can I claim copyright on nicknaming Downing Street the "Wes Wing" if he gets it?

    I have never been on Team Streeting, but that's reason to wish he doesn't become PM if I had been undecided.
    I am on Team Streeting as I think out of all the contenders he as the most punnable name.
    That might be true, but the one in the header made me Blanche.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,485
    kle4 said:

    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    And on council tax it is extremely rare anyone now will lower the rate, even freezing is tough.

    So the decision who to vote for will by necessity be based on other things.
    Bradford council halved the council tax.....




    ....increase from 10% last year to 5% this year.


    I'm not sure that this is such a vote winner, however.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713

    Reuters Poll:

    Who blame Trump for rising US gas prices:

    Dems - 95%
    Indies - 82%
    Republicans - 55%

    Half of MAGA still think it's Biden's economy ?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,278

    Battlebus said:

    Battlebus said:

    As mentioned before, Starmer's main issue was having a large majority in the commons and then not using it. As well as those unelectable wannabe PM's sitting behind him on the benches. If 'use it or lose it' is the mantra, a unity candidate is necessary or they will just lapse into the infighting that has bedevilled previous governments.

    So who is the unity candidate? Can't be those intending to knife Starmer.

    Miliband is the unity candidate. Cooper the backup if it turns out Miliband genuinely doesn't want the job.
    Miliband is covered in the comment above - unelectable wannabe PM
    He's still the unity candidate, because the Labour Party doesn't conform to the paradigm you've created.

    Perhaps that would lead you to conclude that this Labour government is doomed, and it's not an unreasonable assessment.
    Miliband is the unity candidate only in the sense he unites everybody who Labour might want to vote for them in saying "Fuck off, Ed".
    Well, whatever. The question isn't whether Miliband would win a general election with an electorate of tens of millions. It's whether he'd win a leadership election with a nominating pool of 400-odd Labour MPs and an electorate of a couple of hundred thousand party members and however many trade union members.
    "Well, whatever" pretty much sums up Labour's options.

    Pick Miliband and the polls won't improve from Starmer. What then?
    Replacing Truss with Sunak didn't ultimately do much to improve the Tories fortunes. They were polling in the low-20s when she was forced out and received 24% at the 2024GE. Should the Tories have left Truss in office as PM?

    Since none of the alternatives for PM seem to have a scooby about what to do differently (with the possible exception of Burnham) then the result would likely be the same as under Sunak. Labour MPs minds will quickly turn to how they are going to earn a living after the inevitable election defeat.

    I feel like very often on PB.com there are two different discussions going on. There's a discussion about what the optimal course of action might be. And then there's a discussion about what the most likely course of action is thought to be.

    These are very different things.

    I'd suggest that the optimal course of action for Labour would be to come up with a plan for fixing the country's ills, and then choose the person best able to implement that plan.

    My expectation is that they will end up choosing a new PM on the basis of that person not being various other people - not a friend of Mandelson, not being investigated by HMRC, not being ineligible for the contest, etc - and on providing gentle reassurance that everything is going to be okay. Miliband is the likely comfort blanket.
    Leaving Truss in place would have wrecked the economy through the bond market. She had to go, regardless of the options to succeed her.
    There's no evidence for that.

    However, she did have to go, because effectively she was told by the Cabinet Secretary to reverse the Corporation Tax freeze or the business of Government would stop. It was effectively a threat to strike.

    Once she'd been forced to reverse such a key step so publicly, she couldn't carry on long term. She was a prisoner in the castle not the ruler of the castle.

    It's a very peculiar thing to demand - cancelling the CT raise was not a massively costly part of the overall budget and clearly would have had beneficial dynamic impacts later on (though we can argue about their level). I think it was pretty much an outright order from the USA, who had been campaigning for years to get other countries to increase their corporate tax levels so it could repatriate companies. Biden himself publicly attacked the budget.

    It's no surprise under the circumstances that Truss has a lifelong antipathy toward the blob.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Nor antisemitism, still, one more push by the right wing tabloids.
    Wouldn't that come under crime and anti-social behaviour ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Nigelb said:

    Reuters Poll:

    Who blame Trump for rising US gas prices:

    Dems - 95%
    Indies - 82%
    Republicans - 55%

    Half of MAGA still think it's Biden's economy ?
    Half of MAGA with fingers in their ears going "I'm not hearing you...."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,436
    Nigelb said:

    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298

    R4 had Kurt Volker on this morning asking "who is to say what the correct number should be ?"
    Ignoring the obvious answer that Congress does that.
    Congress is AWOL though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,444
    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    Exactly. Gaza's irrelevant IN THESE ELECTIONS! (Sorry about shouting!) Locally the big issue's housing as there's a proposal on the table for 6000 houses in a village nearby.
    Reform are shouting about Starmer, which is another irrelevance. It's only the Greens who are doing anything.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,713

    Nigelb said:

    So, yet another thing that the GOP controlled Congress will do nothing about:

    Michael Weiss
    @michaeldweiss

    The NDAA stipulates that any reduction of U.S. troops below 76,000 in Europe for more than 45 days requires congressional oversight. This reduction would still leave about 80,000 in theatre; however, the removal of any American hardware over $500,000 or any handover of facilities still triggers oversight. I’m sure Hegseth has thought this one through...

    https://x.com/michaeldweiss/status/2050354417225056298

    R4 had Kurt Volker on this morning asking "who is to say what the correct number should be ?"
    Ignoring the obvious answer that Congress does that.
    Congress is AWOL though.
    Sure, but the point is that old GOP establishment like Volker just seem now to have accepted that without demur.

    His line was that 'Trump won't be around forever', so we should just grin and bear it.
    I don't think Americans quite realise to what extent the damage Trump has done is likely to continue once he has gone.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,928
    Absolute beast of a thunder storm here. Can’t think when I last had one directly overhead, the noise is magnificent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,451
    kle4 said:

    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    And on council tax it is extremely rare anyone now will lower the rate, even freezing is tough.

    So the decision who to vote for will by necessity be based on other things.
    Which has hit the Tories in local government, in particular, since having lower tax increases was always part of their core offering. Nowadays, almost every council’s tax will go up every year by the government allowed maximum, regardless of political control, and indeed if anything the Tory councils are under more pressure through having more old people, whose care costs are the principal factor.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818

    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    Exactly. Gaza's irrelevant IN THESE ELECTIONS! (Sorry about shouting!) Locally the big issue's housing as there's a proposal on the table for 6000 houses in a village nearby.
    Reform are shouting about Starmer, which is another irrelevance. It's only the Greens who are doing anything.
    Starmer is not an irrelevance. National popularity has always had a big effect on local results - many a good councillor has lost and many a poor candidate has won because of the national situation.

    It's also why the idea of PCCs being judged on their records was always nonsense.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,818
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    MelonB said:

    Strange. Gaza doesn't appear to be on this list of voter concerns:



    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    ·
    1h
    🚨 Latest Opinium @ObserverUK poll 🚨

    Key local issues in England ahead of next week are:

    🏥Local NHS services (39%)
    🚗Road maintenance & potholes (37%)
    👮Crime & anti-social behaviour (30%)
    💸Council tax rates (29%)

    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/2050482925461016872

    Of which only council tax (within tight bounds) and road maintenance are actually within the local authority ambit.

    They could have named schools, social care, bin collections, planning, housing, parks, buses (in some areas), street cleaning.
    And on council tax it is extremely rare anyone now will lower the rate, even freezing is tough.

    So the decision who to vote for will by necessity be based on other things.
    Which has hit the Tories in local government, in particular, since having lower tax increases was always part of their core offering. Nowadays, almost every council’s tax will go up every year by the government allowed maximum, regardless of political control, and indeed if anything the Tory councils are under more pressure through having more old people, whose care costs are the principal factor.
    I believe with reduced government grants they calculate amounts on a presumption the council will raise at maximum. So if you don't that's yet more savings to find.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,401

    Hugo Gye
    @HugoGye
    ·
    1h
    NEW POLL

    Reform holds on to 9pt lead ahead of Labour/Tory/Green cluster

    Ref 28%
    Lab 19%
    Con 17%
    Grn 16%
    LD 12%

    @BMGResearch
    for
    @theipaper
    , 29-30 April
This discussion has been closed.