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Some match bets for Gorton & Denton – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,963
edited 8:04AM in General
Some match bets for Gorton & Denton – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have some match bets for Thursday’s by-election and I’m not sure if I should bet. I can see both the Conservative and Lib Dem vote shares collapsing like the French army in 1940 but I am not sure which party will sink the lowest. If I had to choose I’d back the Lib Dems in this market based on relative value.

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Comments

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,684
    Guilt & obsession
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 8:08AM
    There have been a few Pro Cadden Vox Pops. Ive not seen any LD ones.
    Con might just about ssve deposit, LD maybe 3% is my fag packet offering
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 8:08AM
    Rejoin EU 1.2%
    Loonies 0.3%

    Something like that
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,510
    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,033

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    It is a stretch to claim that the Conservatives would be bothering with Gorton and Denton even in "normal" times.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,684
    @Sean_F FPT

    I’d go with a ladder of UK gilts timed (the extent possible) to match the payment schedule. You’d make 3+ percent.

    But you could probably also get that from a series of fixed term deposits at your bank which might be easier
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 8:16AM
    Whatever the result it will be a terrrrrrrrible night for the TOREEZ
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,510

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
    It's not about winning, it's about looking like you're interested.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 8:24AM

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
    It's not about winning, it's about looking like you're interested.
    Im sure Reform, The Greens and Labour would love it if Kemi had been pressing the flesh so they could say 'look, rejected and irrelevant!'
    Starmer in Hartlepool.... and that was much more winnable. It almost ended his leadership.

    Con have zero to gain being uber visible in Gorton

  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,353
    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,598
    This is an interesting stat; Hollywood's box office take in Japan is less that a third if its peak.
    Meanwhile, domestic cinema continues to grow.

    It's crazy how much the world's third-largest movie market has turned off Hollywood - and how unconcerned studios seem to be...
    https://x.com/GearoidReidy/status/2025449752620622023
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,353
    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 720
    Tory and LD high commands no doubt more interested on financing local and devolved campaigns and not too concerned about leaking their small enclaves to Reform and Greens on this occasion.

    Perception and momentum is key though in Politics and they will be running a risk of taking their eye off the ball. I doubt it will have any negative impact though.

    What I'll be interesting will be to see how the ground campaigns of Greens, Labour and Reform stand up.

    I do think Polanski bottling the chance to gain a Hoc presence may bite him on the backside whether they win or not.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,903

    @Sean_F FPT

    I’d go with a ladder of UK gilts timed (the extent possible) to match the payment schedule. You’d make 3+ percent.

    But you could probably also get that from a series of fixed term deposits at your bank which might be easier

    Royal London Short Term Money Market will get you north of 4% and very simple and you can cash in easily
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260
    The polling evidence is LD voters are more likely to tactically vote Labour to beat Reform than Conservative voters are likely to tactically vote Reform to beat Labour so on the face of it you would expect the LD vote to decline more. That should therefore help Labour but will be offset by the significant number of 2024 Labour voters who will vote Green, far more than the likely Reform voters who go Advance
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260
    edited 8:43AM
    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 720
    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,557
    Yeah, hard to call parties who are being also-rans here. Lib Dems better suited to the suit but also likelier to vote Green to block Reform.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,469
    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 8:44AM
    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,778
    Pleased to see the Monster Raving Looney Party get a mention but I don't understand the betting terms. Does it mean Rejoin EU is more favoured for Most Votes than MRLP, or less? (I think it doesn't mean Most Votes overall, just Most Votes out of the two?)

    Good morning, everybody.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,563
    Just looking at the Ladbrokes blurb on betting in this area. Likely raised before but surely someone would have sanity checked it by now. I now understand why some have commented on Kemi going in 'two footed'.

    Politics Bets
    If you're looking to take your UK Politics betting to the next level, here are a few tips and strategies to consider:
    • Stay Informed: Keep up with the latest news, team updates, and injury reports to make informed betting decisions.
    • Focus on Value: Look for odds that offer value, meaning the potential payout outweighs the perceived probability of the outcome.
    • Manage Your Bankroll: Set a budget for your betting activities and stick to it. Never chase losses or bet more than you can afford to lose.
    • Explore Different Markets: Don't limit yourself to traditional result bets. Consider alternative markets such as last place finish or most votes.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,243
    malcolmg said:

    @Sean_F FPT

    I’d go with a ladder of UK gilts timed (the extent possible) to match the payment schedule. You’d make 3+ percent.

    But you could probably also get that from a series of fixed term deposits at your bank which might be easier

    Royal London Short Term Money Market will get you north of 4% and very simple and you can cash in easily
    If ethical investment is important to your Church, consider The Reliance Bank. Their fixed term bonds have decent rates and profits go to good causes. My Church has some reserves invested with them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260
    edited 8:48AM

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
    It's not about winning, it's about looking like you're interested.
    Im sure Reform, The Greens and Labour would love it if Kemi had been pressing the flesh so they could say 'look, rejected and irrelevant!'
    Starmer in Hartlepool.... and that was much more winnable. It almost ended his leadership.

    Con have zero to gain being uber visible in Gorton

    Gorton and Denton was far more Labour than average in 2024 and of its predecessor seats the last one to elect a Tory MP was Manchester Withington back in 1983. Manchester Gorton and Denton and Reddish had a Labour MP even when Foot lost by a landslide to Thatcher
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,202
    The first job I did for my New York producer was an ad for a vacuum cleaner. A Persian cat walks across a grand piano and knocks a large glass of red wine in super slow motion onto the carpeted floor. (SFX AS Time Goes By)

    The producer sent me a copy of the call sheet to see if there was anything I wanted that he'd missed out. I said I couldn't think of anything but I noticed he's put down 'Masseuse'?.

    "What's that for?". I asked

    "That's for you or the cast" He said

    "Well I can't speak for the Persian Cat but I'm fine without one"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,684
    Brixian59 said:

    Tory and LD high commands no doubt more interested on financing local and devolved campaigns and not too concerned about leaking their small enclaves to Reform and Greens on this occasion.

    Perception and momentum is key though in Politics and they will be running a risk of taking their eye off the ball. I doubt it will have any negative impact though.

    What I'll be interesting will be to see how the ground campaigns of Greens, Labour and Reform stand up.

    I do think Polanski bottling the chance to gain a Hoc presence may bite him on the backside whether they win or not.

    In the spirit of PB pedantry, aren’t they exclaves not enclaves?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,229
    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    I thought TT was essentially centrist / One Nation.

    That would be a bit of a pivot.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,778
    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    There's a lesson that might be worth keeping in mind for this and future generations (if any): that the sovereign isn't best placed to make wise decisions regarding their offspring and maybe the heir has a better insight.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    HYUFD said:

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
    It's not about winning, it's about looking like you're interested.
    Im sure Reform, The Greens and Labour would love it if Kemi had been pressing the flesh so they could say 'look, rejected and irrelevant!'
    Starmer in Hartlepool.... and that was much more winnable. It almost ended his leadership.

    Con have zero to gain being uber visible in Gorton

    Gorton and Denton was far more Labour than average in 2024 and of its predecessor seats the last one to elect a Tory MP was Manchester Withington back in 1983. Manchester Gorton and Denton and Reddish had a Labour MP even when Foot lost by a landslide to Thatcher
    Feet up and watch the little parties fight over the seat
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,931
    edited 8:50AM

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,684
    malcolmg said:

    @Sean_F FPT

    I’d go with a ladder of UK gilts timed (the extent possible) to match the payment schedule. You’d make 3+ percent.

    But you could probably also get that from a series of fixed term deposits at your bank which might be easier

    Royal London Short Term Money Market will get you north of 4% and very simple and you can cash in easily
    Even better.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 720
    MattW said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    I thought TT was essentially centrist / One Nation.

    That would be a bit of a pivot.
    He's seemingly a bit of a maverick at the moment.

    He's a bit homeless, never going to his left, might drift to Rupe.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,573
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    @Sean_F FPT

    I’d go with a ladder of UK gilts timed (the extent possible) to match the payment schedule. You’d make 3+ percent.

    But you could probably also get that from a series of fixed term deposits at your bank which might be easier

    Royal London Short Term Money Market will get you north of 4% and very simple and you can cash in easily
    If ethical investment is important to your Church, consider The Reliance Bank. Their fixed term bonds have decent rates and profits go to good causes. My Church has some reserves invested with them.
    Thanks. It’s money held under a will trust. I thought I could purchase National Savings Income Bonds, which give 3.75%, only to discover they refuse charity beneficiaries.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Tom T is Miles Jupp. Fact.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,992
    FPT…
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Went to see Wuthering Heights this evening, a rather liberal interpretation of the novel but a brooding yet colourful, tense and dramatic performance of it nonetheless at times often quite racy

    Sounds good, raciness in film seemed to virtually disappear for a couple of decades unless that was entirely the point, anything remotely sexual is hard to get a pass from the censors even as they get more accepting of violence and language. Whereas racy smut seems to abount in literature.
    Yes when you have a shit script you have to throw in lots of bare arses etc to try and pretend it is arty. Where you been these lost decades, there are no films without it nowadays and it is just thrown in to fill the gaps in the shit scripts.
    If you want a lot of bare arses and a good script, I recommend The Beauty on Disney+.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,931
    HYUFD said:

    LibDems: Not bothering here!

    They must be a tad concerned that they have lost the status of NOTA protest party to the Greens.

    And for the official opposition not to be bothering in a by-election against an unpopular government is also very telling.

    The parties that came 5th and 6th in 2024? Yeah, Im amazed they havent sent their entire parliamentary parties up and set up camp.
    It's not about winning, it's about looking like you're interested.
    Im sure Reform, The Greens and Labour would love it if Kemi had been pressing the flesh so they could say 'look, rejected and irrelevant!'
    Starmer in Hartlepool.... and that was much more winnable. It almost ended his leadership.

    Con have zero to gain being uber visible in Gorton

    Gorton and Denton was far more Labour than average in 2024 and of its predecessor seats the last one to elect a Tory MP was Manchester Withington back in 1983. Manchester Gorton and Denton and Reddish had a Labour MP even when Foot lost by a landslide to Thatcher
    Gorton and Denton has very very little in common with the once-Tory bits of 1983 Manchester Withington however (though this may be your point?)
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 720
    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    There's a lesson that might be worth keeping in mind for this and future generations (if any): that the sovereign isn't best placed to make wise decisions regarding their offspring and maybe the heir has a better insight.
    May be they should just kill off this *spare"crap about a second born son to The heir and define a specific role.

    Kate and William are hopefully mindful of this going forwards.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,469
    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,244
    Jeffrey Epstein hid computers and photographs from United States authorities in secret storage lockers across the country
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/559f4da9187b4a25

    Gift link bypasses paywall (although basically that headline is the story).
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,196

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Tom T is Miles Jupp. Fact.
    I think Miles Jupp is almost the stereotype Lib Dem these days...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,916
    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260
    edited 9:00AM

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,992
    FPT…

    Late to the thread but on topic (!!)

    I’m not sure it’s meaningful to say that 50 years ago the republicans were more favourable to science than the democrats and that has switched today. It’s accurate but misleading.

    50 years ago was when the Southern Strategy was just launching. So the voters haven’t changed their position - the parties have switched their voter bases.

    You’re right that any comparison over 50 years involves different people, and the change may be in who supports the Republicans rather than those who support the Republicans changing their minds.

    However, look at the graph and the change wasn’t around the Southern Strategy. There was a slow decline from the late ‘80s that accelerated around 2015.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,992
    On the match bets, I think there’s some value in the LibDems and more in Rejoin EU.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,229

    Jeffrey Epstein hid computers and photographs from United States authorities in secret storage lockers across the country
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/559f4da9187b4a25

    Gift link bypasses paywall (although basically that headline is the story).

    That's very Trumpish.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    The irony of a lot of the 'wets' insults is that a lot of them are dry as dust Thatcherites who just dont want to kick gays in the nuts and repatriate anyone with a tan
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,244
    Scaffolder shortage deals fresh blow to Labour’s building plans
    Experts warn of declining ‘talent problem’ as 7pc of the workforce is set to retire by 2029

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/02/22/scaffolder-shortage-deals-fresh-blow-to-labours-building-pl/ (£££)

    Train more Brits, recruit from overseas, or wait for AI scaffolders? It's a dilemma.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    Cicero said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Tom T is Miles Jupp. Fact.
    I think Miles Jupp is almost the stereotype Lib Dem these days...
    I meant in looks not look out!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,992
    AnneJGP said:

    Pleased to see the Monster Raving Looney Party get a mention but I don't understand the betting terms. Does it mean Rejoin EU is more favoured for Most Votes than MRLP, or less? (I think it doesn't mean Most Votes overall, just Most Votes out of the two?)

    Good morning, everybody.

    Yes, it’s who gets the most votes between those two.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,929

    Scaffolder shortage deals fresh blow to Labour’s building plans
    Experts warn of declining ‘talent problem’ as 7pc of the workforce is set to retire by 2029

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/02/22/scaffolder-shortage-deals-fresh-blow-to-labours-building-pl/ (£££)

    Train more Brits, recruit from overseas, or wait for AI scaffolders? It's a dilemma.

    Scaffolders are about 90% blokes who lug stuff around. There is a bit of skill (in some jobs), but it's largely metal Lego.

    There's a reason that other building trades make jokes about them. Even underpinners look down on them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,664
    edited 9:06AM
    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260
    edited 9:08AM

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,469

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    The irony of a lot of the 'wets' insults is that a lot of them are dry as dust Thatcherites who just dont want to kick gays in the nuts and repatriate anyone with a tan
    See Ken Clarke gets labelled as a Wet when he was Thatcher’s go to guy in the 1980s, persuaded her to introduce the internal market to the NHS, was a fiscally sound Chancellor all because he’s pro-EU.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,565
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    You write that last paragraph as though it is a bad thing, and at the same time your Party sits ten points behind the fascists in the opinion polls.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    The irony of a lot of the 'wets' insults is that a lot of them are dry as dust Thatcherites who just dont want to kick gays in the nuts and repatriate anyone with a tan
    See Ken Clarke gets labelled as a Wet when he was Thatcher’s go to guy in the 1980s, persuaded her to introduce the internal market to the NHS, was a fiscally sound Chancellor all because he’s pro-EU.
    Indeed. There was nothing remotely 'wet' about the Clarke economy. Hence why the left lost their shit about Brown adopting/accepting it 97 to 01
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,701
    You’ll never guess what Labour are hearing on the doorsteps of Gorton & Denton!

    https://x.com/labournorthwest/status/2025491037133684792?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    You’ll never guess what Labour are hearing on the doorsteps of Gorton & Denton!

    https://x.com/labournorthwest/status/2025491037133684792?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Theyve cut off the follow up sentence
    But at least they arent you fuckers!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    You write that last paragraph as though it is a bad thing, and at the same time your Party sits ten points behind the fascists in the opinion polls.
    As Labour also sits about ten points behind Reform in the polls
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,706

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    Today/this weeks docs wont be the investigation related ones
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,667
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    You mean standard of proof, not burden of proof. 'Burden' is about who has to prove; standard is about what counts as proof.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,916
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,706

    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    Today/this weeks docs wont be the investigation related ones
    Ah, that makes more sense.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,565
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    You write that last paragraph as though it is a bad thing, and at the same time your Party sits ten points behind the fascists in the opinion polls.
    As Labour also sits about ten points behind Reform in the polls
    I thought we were discussing the direction of travel of the Conservative Party.

    The Labour Party are ten points adrift for operational rather than ideological reasons.

    Anyway there is always swing back, or so we used to be told by PB Tories during the last Parliament.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 9:20AM
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    Today/this weeks docs wont be the investigation related ones
    Ah, that makes more sense.
    In fact i would imagine they will miraculously be the most innocuous stuff Labour could find, possibly topped by a large squirrel
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,573

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,667
    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    'Charges libelled'! Scottish lawyer. No-one in England knows this Pictish lingo.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,929
    a
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    Today/this weeks docs wont be the investigation related ones
    Ah, that makes more sense.
    It's about lighting a fire under the police.

    The politicians know that Mandy is hoping to timeout the outrage and it to turn into a decade long "enquiry" that announces that charges wouldn't be in the public interest.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,706

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I've never had a case where the circumstantial evidence involved a £12m payment for something that allegedly didn't happen but if I did I would think it was Heineken level. It might well be thought that a reasonable inference was capable of being drawn.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,916
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
    That is just silly

    I would seek advice and pay a lawyer to act on the family's behalf
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,945
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    I'm similar to TSE surely there's a lot of us. Both positions - social and economic - relate to personal freedom. I regard myself as both socially and economically Liberal.

    I do indeed sometimes vote LibDem - quite often in local elections, twice in General Elections including the last one. However for national elections the socialist wing of the LibDem puts me off more than the conservative wing of the Tories

    However I am now fairly disgusted by the spiv wing which seems to believe that capitalism means guaranteed excess profit and personal riches at taxpayer expense so I may indeed find myself making a more permanent move to the LibDems. At the moment I would likely vote for them at the next election
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,999
    edited 9:26AM
    I think the Greens drugs policy is a step too far and say that as someone very pro legalising cannabis .

    It would have been good if we had someone here who lives in the Gorton and Denton constituency to give an idea as to what campaign leaflets are dropping through doors and if they’d had visits from the parties and what their messaging is.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    Sausage fingers name will be mud by the end of it all.
    I just hope we dont end up with a warty lincolnshire prick this time
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,565

    a

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The first tranche of Mandy docs are due to be released 'asap' after parliament reopens today. So, jam today?

    I am slightly surprised that the police have not got a shift on and got charges libelled against Mandelson (if appropriate) based on documents that are likely to be made public today. It is unusual for the evidence to be in the public domain before charges are brought. They may not be, of course.
    Today/this weeks docs wont be the investigation related ones
    Ah, that makes more sense.
    It's about lighting a fire under the police.

    The politicians know that Mandy is hoping to timeout the outrage and it to turn into a decade long "enquiry" that announces that charges wouldn't be in the public interest.
    "Inquiry" please!

    Or we could have a Royal Commission chaired by Prince Andrew.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,929
    a

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
    That is just silly

    I would seek advice and pay a lawyer to act on the family's behalf
    The lawyers, in this case, cooked up the settlement. That's both sides of the case, plus the agreement of the complainant and sign off by the court.

    The advice of the lawyers would have been to pay the settlement.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,573
    edited 9:31AM

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
    That is just silly

    I would seek advice and pay a lawyer to act on the family's behalf
    And what do you think the lawyers were advising in this case?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 42,539

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    The old Bank of Scotland data centre that has been there since the 70s has more noom than this pic
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725
    edited 9:32AM
    Reform trailing Yusufs presser this morning as his first as 'Shadow Home Secretary'
    Hows he supposed to shadow anyone as an unelected nobody? Hang about outside parliament with a megaphone like Steve Bray?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,469
    Andrew charged taxpayers for massage services when envoy, claim ex-civil servants

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdr232j8kgvo
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,916
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
    That is just silly

    I would seek advice and pay a lawyer to act on the family's behalf
    And what do you think the lawyers were advising in this case?
    @Malmesbury has answered that, but the question remains who knew the details and why was 12 million pounds needed to settle
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,560
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    The country could do with some Heseltine Tories with LD sympathies now. Better than anything we’ve currently got.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,701

    Sausage fingers name will be mud by the end of it all.
    I just hope we dont end up with a warty lincolnshire prick this time

    I only post this because Maguire presumably has a clue about these things, but the problem may be prised from cold, dead sausage fingers shortly.

    https://x.com/kevin_maguire/status/2025841957814067336?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,725

    Sausage fingers name will be mud by the end of it all.
    I just hope we dont end up with a warty lincolnshire prick this time

    I only post this because Maguire presumably has a clue about these things, but the problem may be prised from cold, dead sausage fingers shortly.

    https://x.com/kevin_maguire/status/2025841957814067336?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
    Time will tell i guess
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,565

    Andrew charged taxpayers for massage services when envoy, claim ex-civil servants

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdr232j8kgvo

    Back in the 1980s I knew Traders who put hookers on expenses, although their description of the service provided might have been "local secretarial services".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,260

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    Edit. Apologies, that should be children
    Tugenhadt is face becoming a joke figure with allegations, lies and denial about decisions he made as a Minister and generally it seems frustrated at being yesterday's man.

    A move to Rupes Team would not be a surprise.

    It must be utterly demoralising for him to see nonentities like Pritti and Cartlidge in roles he'd covet.
    There's more chance of me eating a pizza with pineapple on it than Tom Tugendhat defecting to Rupert Lowe's mob or Reform.

    He's more One Nation than me and that's saying something.
    Are you One Nation? I always understood One Nation to be the economic left of the party - e.g. Macmillan - while I understood you to be very much of the Thatcherite right. I don't want to be placing you somewhere you are not, however, so please read this as a question rather than a confident statement.

    (Edit: Agree with you on Tugendhat not defecting though.)
    I am One Nation of social matters, I am a fiscal Conservative.

    One Nation needs to be stop being seen as Wets in a Thatcher context but back to the likes of SuperMac.
    You are Thatcherite on economics but Cameron/Clegg on social matters and being anti Brexit.

    Hence you have more in common with Orange Book LDs than Reform, probably about 1/3 of Tories are similar to you on that.

    SuperMac though was pretty wet even on economics, he said Thatcher's privatisations were 'selling off the family silver' and would probably have become a Heseltine Tory with some LD sympathies
    I'm similar to TSE surely there's a lot of us. Both positions - social and economic - relate to personal freedom. I regard myself as both socially and economically Liberal.

    I do indeed sometimes vote LibDem - quite often in local elections, twice in General Elections including the last one. However for national elections the socialist wing of the LibDem puts me off more than the conservative wing of the Tories

    However I am now fairly disgusted by the spiv wing which seems to believe that capitalism means guaranteed excess profit and personal riches at taxpayer expense so I may indeed find myself making a more permanent move to the LibDems. At the moment I would likely vote for them at the next election
    Fine if you live in a LD held seat but otherwise if you live in a Tory held seat they are still the best option to beat Labour or Reform and if you are in a Labour held seat you will probably have to choose between them and Reform at present in most of them
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,929

    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Dopermean said:

    Radio 4 discussing whether jugears, with form for accepting carrier bags of cash, was well-served by his advisors.
    Tugendhat throwing about lurid allegations of child prostitutes being trafficked via RAF bases to Royal residences. Not sure what he's basing that on.

    The King as then Prince of Wales in 2001 advised against Andrew being appointed as a trade envoy in the first place but his late mother overruled him and Mandelson got him the job anyway. To be fair to the King both he and the current Prince of Wales come out reasonably unscathed by the Andrew affair, the late Queen though despite a great life of service overall sadly made some errors in relation to Andrew and the New Labour government of Blair, Brown and Mandelson also has serious questions to answer over Andrew and Epstein
    Good morning

    The problem Charles has is he also contributed to the pay off, so it is naive to think he wasn't aware of the detail and there is a real prospect both he and other royals could be drawn into this scandal

    This is a very slow burning fuse for the royals
    Andrew has not been arrested for anything to do with Giuffre, only for leaking info as a trade envoy, so that is not relevant at the moment.

    As I told you at the weekend a civil settlement also has a much lower burden of proof than a criminal case. In any case while the late Queen definitely paid most of the pay off as did the estate of Philip it is not clear whether King Charles made any contribution to it at all
    AMW is being investigated by the Met Police for very serious offences and as part of that investigation questions are being asked about the late Queen and Charles involvement in paying off Virginia Guiffre

    It is irrelevant that it was a civil matter, but if Charles and others are able to prove they were not aware of the reason for the payoff then that is important

    As I said this is a slow burning fuse for the royals
    I take it, your attitude towards any friend or family member who is in trouble with the law is to tell them to go to hell.

    That’s a point of view, but not one that I share.
    That is just silly

    I would seek advice and pay a lawyer to act on the family's behalf
    And what do you think the lawyers were advising in this case?
    @Malmesbury has answered that, but the question remains who knew the details and why was 12 million pounds needed to settle
    Well, I don't know what they advised. But creating such a settlement in the middle of a court case must have gone through the lawyers. On both sides. And the court.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,999

    Reform trailing Yusufs presser this morning as his first as 'Shadow Home Secretary'
    Hows he supposed to shadow anyone as an unelected nobody? Hang about outside parliament with a megaphone like Steve Bray?

    Shadow Home Secretary is from the official opposition not a party with 5 MPs !
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 18,992

    You’ll never guess what Labour are hearing on the doorsteps of Gorton & Denton!

    https://x.com/labournorthwest/status/2025491037133684792?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Is it... "Celeriac is really overrated as a vegetable."?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,481

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    Nissan plant in Sunderland.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,477
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    Nissan plant in Sunderland.
    A place well known for its noom
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,229
    A more detailed conversation with Zia Yusuf on his "list churches" policy.

    (Times Radio interview.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oQ5OKCtnTk
  • LeonLeon Posts: 66,664

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    And this is why I get paid to go to these places and write about them. And you, to be brutally frank, do not
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,700
    nico67 said:

    Reform trailing Yusufs presser this morning as his first as 'Shadow Home Secretary'
    Hows he supposed to shadow anyone as an unelected nobody? Hang about outside parliament with a megaphone like Steve Bray?

    Shadow Home Secretary is from the official opposition not a party with 5 MPs !
    Didn't St Vince go around calling himself Shadow Chancellor at one point?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,560

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    Nissan plant in Sunderland.
    A place well known for its noom
    That could be their next new model, the Nissan Noom. With blacked out windows.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,706

    Andrew charged taxpayers for massage services when envoy, claim ex-civil servants

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdr232j8kgvo

    Look, if everyone was happy at the time surely that is the end of it? Why on earth is this being stroked up now?

    Andrew is an incredibly stupid, self entitled prat who has lived a largely pointless life. I really don't want to start feeling sorry for him.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,560
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This is it, PB, this it it

    FAB 18, of the Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. in the South Taiwan Science Park, Tainan

    Just completed, so they can make the most advanced silicon chips in the world

    It’s vast. It’s mind bogglingly vast. No windows. High security. A trillion scooters for the workers. And it’s erection was delayed by the discovery of an enormous Neolithic death pit, 5000 years old ,containing the decapitated victims - women and children - of Taiwan’s ancient head hunting tribes

    What a place. The brutal darkness of the distant past and the beautiful darkness of the terrifying future. Colliding here on a faintly bleak pasture on a smallish island in the South China Sea

    The noom is severe


    Getting a bit of a South Gyle Business Park vibe tbh.
    And this is why I get paid to go to these places and write about them. And you, to be brutally frank, do not
    For your sake, I hope your next assignment isn’t to South Gyle Business Park.
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