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The public strongly support Starmer on Iran – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,962
edited 9:25AM in General
The public strongly support Starmer on Iran – politicalbetting.com

With Donald Trump's u-turn on the Chagos Islands deal reportedly because Keir Starmer refused the US permission to launch Iran strikes from RAF airbases in the UK, today's poll finds 58% of Britons back the PM's callyougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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Comments

  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,721
    edited 9:26AM
    First, like Reform on Thursday.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    Second like Labour on Tuesday
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,696
    In forecasting the Greens to win on Thursday I can claim a real first, none of this pretender stuff.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,696
    Surely much more important this morning is what can England hope to get against SL? Would have thought they will need 200.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,237
    Brixian59 said:

    Second like Labour on Tuesday

    With Badloss in 3rd place?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    edited 9:35AM
    Im going to set some atbitrary targets for the also rans in G and D to have had 'an OK night'

    Tory - saved deposit
    LD - 3%+
    Advance UK - 2%+
    The rest - 1%+
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,237
    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,505
    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Too late for the postal vote harvesting.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198
    Starmer's getting some sensible advice at last. This might be the start of the big turn-around........He might even get his own MPs back onside
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574
    On topic, the polling is almost as much about the memory of the Iraq invasion as it is about Trump, I suspect.

    Were it not for the appalling nature of the Iranian regime, the numbers supporting the government stance would be even higher.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,233
    Though more Reform voters back allowing Trump to use the Chagos Islands to attack Iran than don’t. Even if most Labour, LD and Green and even Tory voters are opposed
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,110
    According to a thread I just read on G&D, Yougov also polled there for voting intention. I wonder whether that will see the light of day.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464

    According to a thread I just read on G&D, Yougov also polled there for voting intention. I wonder whether that will see the light of day.

    YouGov do not poll individual constituencies.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693

    According to a thread I just read on G&D, Yougov also polled there for voting intention. I wonder whether that will see the light of day.

    YouGov do not poll individual constituencies.
    There is a poll on G and D coming out in Byline Times imminently however that the client says is broadly similar to Omnisis (3 way race, Green narrowly lead Lab)
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,557
    HYUFD said:

    Though more Reform voters back allowing Trump to use the Chagos Islands to attack Iran than don’t. Even if most Labour, LD and Green and even Tory voters are opposed

    There is a LOT of US gear going into the US over the past week. Starmer will be hoping whatever is planned happens after Thursday.

    The FlightRadar24 timelapse shows the to-and-fro of the transporters. It may just be dickwaving for Russia and China's benefit.

    https://x.com/flightradar24/status/2025419012721492408
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,134
    Morning all :)

    No surprises whatsoever on that polling - I'm not sure why they bothered.

    Even the Conservative and Reform parties have significant minorities who are less enthused about Trump so it complicates the positions Badenoch and Farage can take on these issues.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,237

    According to a thread I just read on G&D, Yougov also polled there for voting intention. I wonder whether that will see the light of day.

    YouGov do not poll individual constituencies.
    There is a poll on G and D coming out in Byline Times imminently however that the client says is broadly similar to Omnisis (3 way race, Green narrowly lead Lab)
    Intetesting.

    There are a couple of new markets on Betfair. One on turnout, and one on second place. Lab 3.6 for second place.

    I have had a nibble at 5.7 on turnoit 35 to 39.99% with a little on 40-44.99%. This is a low turnout election despite all our interest.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198
    edited 9:50AM
    Nigelb said:

    On topic, the polling is almost as much about the memory of the Iraq invasion as it is about Trump, I suspect.

    Were it not for the appalling nature of the Iranian regime, the numbers supporting the government stance would be even higher.

    I think that's true though the turkey shoot we've just witnessed for the last two years in Gaza with a degree of cruelty few of us have witnessed in our lives has probably played into it even more. We no longer know which side we should even be on.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,477
    People aren't stupid. Trump has instincts closer to the Iranian regime than with western democracy.

    The motivation for any bombing campaign would be about distracting from Epstein/tariffs, or a power trip, not supporting a revolution. See Greenland/NATO/Venezuela.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,110
    I'm thinking Labour beat Greens in Gorton and Denton. Greens sweep the Levenshulme area and pick up some of the muslim votes, but less than predicted. I would argue they need to be polling much further ahead than Labour at this stage to actually beat them.

    My head says Labour will also narrowly edge Reform, but I do think its still winnable for Reform - the conditions will never be more perfect, with neither progressive side able to finish the other off and absorb their vote. Reform could pick up a lot of that 'Don't know' vote and score a massive upset. I think at this stage their message should be (and probably is) 'this is a free hit' - lend me your vote and if you don't like what happens, go back to Labour next time.'
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693

    According to a thread I just read on G&D, Yougov also polled there for voting intention. I wonder whether that will see the light of day.

    YouGov do not poll individual constituencies.
    There is a poll on G and D coming out in Byline Times imminently however that the client says is broadly similar to Omnisis (3 way race, Green narrowly lead Lab)
    https://x.com/i/status/2025243790840135692

    Is the link to the info suggesting this
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,233
    Pakistan strikes militants in Afghanistan

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxgln3gnd6o
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464
    edited 10:03AM

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical professionals too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, the regime are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    edited 9:57AM
    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,427
    DavidL said:

    Surely much more important this morning is what can England hope to get against SL? Would have thought they will need 200.

    Hmmm....I think 175 would do it, but they're going to struggle to get that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,110

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,704
    Eabhal said:

    People aren't stupid. Trump has instincts closer to the Iranian regime than with western democracy.

    The motivation for any bombing campaign would be about distracting from Epstein/tariffs, or a power trip, not supporting a revolution. See Greenland/NATO/Venezuela.

    Trump's instincts mean there's some reason to be hopeful there will be a better plan for the aftermath than there was in Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    Restore have announcrd Orla Minihane founder of the Pink Ladies as their Women and Girls safety spokesperson
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574
    Eabhal said:

    People aren't stupid. Trump has instincts closer to the Iranian regime than with western democracy.

    The motivation for any bombing campaign would be about distracting from Epstein/tariffs, or a power trip, not supporting a revolution. See Greenland/NATO/Venezuela.

    The Trump administration has certainly been trying to make a deal with the murderous regime.

    And yet it's not impossible that US intervention would provide the impetus for the Iranian regime to be overthrown.

    And on the other, other hand, no one has a clue of what might follow that, and it certainly didn't seem to form any part of whatever the US plan is.

    I'd have been in the don't knows in this poll.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,134

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,553
    F1: not a 'proper' tip as I don't have a bet365 account, but if you do, Hadjar's 101 to win in Australia, and the each way is 1/5 odds top 3. That's 20 (21 minus the lost stake for not winning) for a podium, compared to Ladbrokes' 9.

    Still odds against, but worth thinking about.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,134
    I see the Matthew Syed piece gives a nice write up to the Conservative candidate (no surprise there, the Times still likes the Conservatives) and says next to nothing about any of the other parties other than Reform, Labour and Green.

    He;s not wrong in his overall assessment, however, and the sentiments expressed in his vox-pops are far from unusual. It's part of the deeper discontent, malaise, call it what you will, which I'm not sure can be easily assuaged by economic growth or a "factory reset" (whatever that means).

    Syed is right in asserting we are still in recovery from the events of 2008 and their political and socio-economic impacts. As might be expected, another kind word for Badenoch in the conclusion but the evidence she or Stride are looking at anything approaching a "reset" is flimsy at this time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,696
    On topic, is there any US polling on support for a prez elected on no more foreign wars blustering his way into a foreign war?

    Also, despite all the bellowing about the biggest build up of US forces since Iraq I haven't seen mention of land forces; are there any? Can't see forced regime change happening without some element of that.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198
    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
    Second would be ideal. Labour don't need the seat but as far as it's possible it would be good for Reform to be roundly beaten Also a victory for Green would encourage Starmer to start looking leftwards and stop apeing the fascists
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    stodge said:

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
    Agreed. I mean Bromley is possible i suppose but even the by election win in favourable conditions of polling in Bromley Common doesnt scream 'majority'.
    And Labour holding on everywhere is just daft on every single metric available.
    Oh well, more fun taking the piss out of them later
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    stodge said:

    I see the Matthew Syed piece gives a nice write up to the Conservative candidate (no surprise there, the Times still likes the Conservatives) and says next to nothing about any of the other parties other than Reform, Labour and Green.

    He;s not wrong in his overall assessment, however, and the sentiments expressed in his vox-pops are far from unusual. It's part of the deeper discontent, malaise, call it what you will, which I'm not sure can be easily assuaged by economic growth or a "factory reset" (whatever that means).

    Syed is right in asserting we are still in recovery from the events of 2008 and their political and socio-economic impacts. As might be expected, another kind word for Badenoch in the conclusion but the evidence she or Stride are looking at anything approaching a "reset" is flimsy at this time.

    Syed is a newly enthusuastic Tory/Kemi backer. Which may explain that aspect.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,122
    Again, the way LD voters see an issue almost exactly matches LAB voters. That happens a lot, I've noticed. Far more so than with CON v REF voters. Perhaps this is relevant to the question of who will be more up for tactical voting come the general election.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    DavidL said:

    Surely much more important this morning is what can England hope to get against SL? Would have thought they will need 200.

    The more I see, 5 day, 1 day all formats of 1 day, the more I think the key player England simply have no replacement for is Moeen Ali.

    His test bowling record was never given the credit he deserved and on the sub continent particularly he could bowl 4 overs at the start at 4 or 5 an over and put scoreboard pressure on.

    With the bat in 5 day game he could transform tempo in an hour and in 1 day game bat anywhere from 1 to 10 and make quick runs.

    Always sage advice too on the pitch,particularly for Stokes.

    From all accounts too a thoroughly decent man and wonderful role model off the pitch.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779

    On topic, is there any US polling on support for a prez elected on no more foreign wars blustering his way into a foreign war?

    Also, despite all the bellowing about the biggest build up of US forces since Iraq I haven't seen mention of land forces; are there any? Can't see forced regime change happening without some element of that.

    Good point, although how many US ground troops are still in Iraq?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574

    On topic, is there any US polling on support for a prez elected on no more foreign wars blustering his way into a foreign war?

    Also, despite all the bellowing about the biggest build up of US forces since Iraq I haven't seen mention of land forces; are there any? Can't see forced regime change happening without some element of that.

    Yes.

    https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/54025-us-military-intervention-iran-little-support-half-americans-think-likely-to-happen-soon-january-30-february-2-2026-economist-yougov-poll
    Americans are generally more likely to oppose than support military intervention in Iran:
    By 48% to 28%, Americans are more likely to oppose than support the U.S. taking military action in Iran
    By 42% to 33%, Americans are more likely to oppose than support the U.S. using military force to overthrow Iranian leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei
    By 52% to 25%, Americans are more likely to oppose than support the U.S. bombing Iran in response to its treatment of protesters
    Less than 20% of Democrats and a majority of Republicans support each of the three descriptions of possible intervention..


    A majority of those polled think intervention will happen anyway, and a majority doubt the regime will be overthrown by bombing.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    edited 10:13AM
    Back to school for MPs this week. And the first tranche of Mandy juice is due.
    I expect the Tories to go in hard on Josh Simon and Chagos then Mandy/Starmer once docs are out
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,562

    stodge said:

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
    Agreed. I mean Bromley is possible i suppose but even the by election win in favourable conditions of polling in Bromley Common doesnt scream 'majority'.
    And Labour holding on everywhere is just daft on every single metric available.
    Oh well, more fun taking the piss out of them later
    I think Bromley’s too posh for Reform.

    I think they’ll do very well in Dagenham, but won’t win the borough.

    Hillingdon, Croydon, even Sutton are possibles, but in the first two, I think a Con/ Reform coalition is more likely.

    Westminster can’t be NOC. It’s either Con or Lab, and I think Con is most likely.

    Labour, IMHO, will lose Barnet, Camden, Merton, and quite possibly, Enfield, Wandsworth, Haringey, and Islington.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,198
    Welcome Brixian! Good to see a new/rejoining poster not part of the Tory diaspora* which after a disasterous few years are now starting to regroup under Nige and Kemi.

    *(You can usually tell them by repeated mentions of Chagos)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574
    edited 10:19AM

    On topic, is there any US polling on support for a prez elected on no more foreign wars blustering his way into a foreign war?

    Also, despite all the bellowing about the biggest build up of US forces since Iraq I haven't seen mention of land forces; are there any? Can't see forced regime change happening without some element of that.

    Good point, although how many US ground troops are still in Iraq?
    No combat troops. They completed the withdrawal last year.

    There are a couple of thousand engaged in military training; that's it.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779
    DavidL said:

    On topic the regime in Iran is vile, the way they have treated and murdered their own people shocking, their behaviour towards women is shocking, their support for other trouble makers around the Middle East has caused endless problems and wars, I could really go on all day. But none of this justifies massive bombing attacks by the US. None.

    I will be happier if we stay out of it. Trump is deranged. He cannot be allowed to be perceived as weak. If that means murdering people in random boats in the Pacific or Caribbean or in Tehran doesn't seem to bother him or his sycophants. But it should bother those who think that there should be some morality in world affairs.

    The worst of it is that his bellicose attitude is encouraging the revolutionaries in Iran, but there's no follow-through support. Another 'army which didn't come' story for the future.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,122
    edited 10:22AM
    Eabhal said:

    People aren't stupid. Trump has instincts closer to the Iranian regime than with western democracy.

    The motivation for any bombing campaign would be about distracting from Epstein/tariffs, or a power trip, not supporting a revolution. See Greenland/NATO/Venezuela.

    Power trip, I'd say. With Donald Trump the main intended distraction is away from anything not featuring himself.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,352
    AI is rubbish, part 5.000.

    https://news.sky.com/story/inaccurate-evidence-from-ai-tool-led-to-police-pursuing-ban-on-israeli-football-fans-mps-find-13510249

    "Microsoft's Copilot AI tool led to more inaccurate evidence being used by West Midlands Police (WMP) to pursue a ban on Israeli football fans, MPs have uncovered.

    The revelation comes in a Commons select committee report into the controversial decision to exclude Maccabi Tel Aviv supporters from a Europa League match at Aston Villa in November that already forced out the chief constable, Craig Guildford.

    Sky News previously found discrepancies in how the force represented evidence from Amsterdam police about unrest around a Maccabi match at Ajax in 2024."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,696
    Can't help thinking that England are about 30 runs behind the rate here.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
    Agreed. I mean Bromley is possible i suppose but even the by election win in favourable conditions of polling in Bromley Common doesnt scream 'majority'.
    And Labour holding on everywhere is just daft on every single metric available.
    Oh well, more fun taking the piss out of them later
    I think Bromley’s too posh for Reform.

    I think they’ll do very well in Dagenham, but won’t win the borough.

    Hillingdon, Croydon, even Sutton are possibles, but in the first two, I think a Con/ Reform coalition is more likely.

    Westminster can’t be NOC. It’s either Con or Lab, and I think Con is most likely.

    Labour, IMHO, will lose Barnet, Camden, Merton, and quite possibly, Enfield, Wandsworth, Haringey, and Islington.
    Croydon seems way too split in nature to go Reform overall - and there us the entrenched 'its Con vs Lab' to overcome
    I think Labour also lose overall control in Hounslow
    Hillingdon might go NoC but more likely Con hold than Ref gain
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,275
    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779
    Halfway through the overs and we've only managed 68. 4 wickets down, too.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Mon/Tues is the latest 'its happening' estimate from the online goons.
    The 2nd carrier will be running defence of Israel stuff apparently.
    I mean the stuff in place is way way in excess of 'pressure for a deal' so something will happen and flights in continue......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574
    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    Today's update.
    https://x.com/MaMoMVPY/status/2025477726719619298
    This Sunday morning, I've now seen a number of comments on this mysterious Truth Social post from Donald Trump. It demonstrates with absolute clarity that the man is suffering from dementia and cannot grasp the most basic connections.

    Why do I say this? Because what his post is almost certainly prompted by is the fact that the Danish navy evacuated a sick crew member from an American submarine near Greenland within the last few days.

    Trump has been informed of this and told that the sick submariner (or whatever his rank may be) has been evacuated. But Trump's dementia-addled brain cannot process even the most straightforward information. Hence his bizarre post.

    In the White House, everyone knows that this is what has happened. The question is, when will they finally acknowledge that he is no longer mentally present?

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693

    Halfway through the overs and we've only managed 68. 4 wickets down, too.

    170 and hope its enough ......
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Somewhat surprised it can negotiate the Suez Canal. Or that Eygpt has allowed it to; And wonder about it getting past Aden; I know it's bristling with armour but sometimes the Yemenis don't seem to care.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694

    Back to school for MPs this week. And the first tranche of Mandy juice is due.
    I expect the Tories to go in hard on Josh Simon and Chagos then Mandy/Starmer once docs are out

    I agree on Simons.He should be our by tea time, Lance the boil.

    On Chagos it is quite simply an absolute non issue for 98% of the general public.

    In fact Starmer refusing to let the Yanks use it, and hopefully his continued refusal to let them use it to bomb Iran, is likely to be a fat bigger issue for Joe Public and a big net win for Starmer.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,501
    stodge said:

    I see the Matthew Syed piece gives a nice write up to the Conservative candidate (no surprise there, the Times still likes the Conservatives) and says next to nothing about any of the other parties other than Reform, Labour and Green.

    He;s not wrong in his overall assessment, however, and the sentiments expressed in his vox-pops are far from unusual. It's part of the deeper discontent, malaise, call it what you will, which I'm not sure can be easily assuaged by economic growth or a "factory reset" (whatever that means).

    Syed is right in asserting we are still in recovery from the events of 2008 and their political and socio-economic impacts. As might be expected, another kind word for Badenoch in the conclusion but the evidence she or Stride are looking at anything approaching a "reset" is flimsy at this time.

    Syed is always worth reading, but by his own admission he joined the Conservative Party a few months' ago.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,696

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Somewhat surprised it can negotiate the Suez Canal. Or that Eygpt has allowed it to; And wonder about it getting past Aden; I know it's bristling with armour but sometimes the Yemenis don't seem to care.
    I'd assumed that it would be flying missions from Eastern Med but I await actual knowledge from Commander DA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,574
    edited 10:33AM

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Mon/Tues is the latest 'its happening' estimate from the online goons.
    The 2nd carrier will be running defence of Israel stuff apparently.
    I mean the stuff in place is way way in excess of 'pressure for a deal' so something will happen and flights in continue......
    The fact that they've sent the last of their knackered AWACS fleet suggests something is going to happen.
    There's no reason to have sent that just for a show of force.

    The detail and length of the preparations suggests the safety of the US fleet, and the protection of Israel will take priority over any concern for what's happening, and will happen on the ground in Iran.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    Today's update.
    https://x.com/MaMoMVPY/status/2025477726719619298
    This Sunday morning, I've now seen a number of comments on this mysterious Truth Social post from Donald Trump. It demonstrates with absolute clarity that the man is suffering from dementia and cannot grasp the most basic connections.

    Why do I say this? Because what his post is almost certainly prompted by is the fact that the Danish navy evacuated a sick crew member from an American submarine near Greenland within the last few days.

    Trump has been informed of this and told that the sick submariner (or whatever his rank may be) has been evacuated. But Trump's dementia-addled brain cannot process even the most straightforward information. Hence his bizarre post.

    In the White House, everyone knows that this is what has happened. The question is, when will they finally acknowledge that he is no longer mentally present?

    Hilarious then that Farage and Badenoch hang on his every Truth Social comment and ignore official pronouncements.

    The lunatic is running the Truth Social account and the more sanguine types around him, granted not many, seek to clear up the increasingly bizarre shit show.

    A cognitive assessment done independently on Trump and Old Joe would probably find Biden in a far better condition.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,704
    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779
    edited 10:38AM

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Somewhat surprised it can negotiate the Suez Canal. Or that Eygpt has allowed it to; And wonder about it getting past Aden; I know it's bristling with armour but sometimes the Yemenis don't seem to care.
    I'd assumed that it would be flying missions from Eastern Med but I await actual knowledge from Commander DA.
    Yes, apologies. Bit of a brain fart there. Highly unlikely it's going to go though the Canal.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,696

    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
    Bit of an ‘I’ve had to go back 19 years to find signs of humanity’ vibe.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,793
    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
    Second would be ideal. Labour don't need the seat but as far as it's possible it would be good for Reform to be roundly beaten Also a victory for Green would encourage Starmer to start looking leftwards and stop apeing the fascists
    The more parties that beat Reform in any given election can only be a good thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779
    94-5. Be lucky to get to 130. To be fair, according the BBC Sri Lanka's fielding has been excellent.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,072

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Mon/Tues is the latest 'its happening' estimate from the online goons.
    The 2nd carrier will be running defence of Israel stuff apparently.
    I mean the stuff in place is way way in excess of 'pressure for a deal' so something will happen and flights in continue......
    State of the Union speech by Trump on Tuesday. I expect him to have gone in to Iran before that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,696

    Halfway through the overs and we've only managed 68. 4 wickets down, too.

    170 and hope its enough ......
    170 looking like a miracle. I think Buttler has to drop down the order. England have lost this one but can't afford to keep starting like that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 58,072
    Ratters said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
    Second would be ideal. Labour don't need the seat but as far as it's possible it would be good for Reform to be roundly beaten Also a victory for Green would encourage Starmer to start looking leftwards and stop apeing the fascists
    The more parties that beat Reform in any given election can only be a good thing.
    I don't see Labour getting their vote out on Thursday. Why would they?

    Weather is light rain and a breeze.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    Whilst I don't see Bridget Phillipson as a Leadership Candidate, and I believe she was wrong to let herself be used as a pawn by McSweeney in the Deputy Leadership contest, as an Education Secretary she is increasingly impressive.

    The SEND issue is a minefield of malpractice, bad proceeds delay, angst and frustration and a huge cost to the Exchequer.

    It would appear that her detailed proposals to be announced tomorrow will be a considered attempt to move the matter forwards, better for the majority of parents and children and for schools.

    No doubt some will be loud opponents as is always the case, but hopefully all but the mad left of Labour, and the sensible majority of others will support it.

    A big test for Tories and Reform who appear to have no coherent plans and for the Tories whose whole education policy seemed to be run by the crazed nutcase Babslsingh an area where they have zero credibility.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779

    Ratters said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
    Second would be ideal. Labour don't need the seat but as far as it's possible it would be good for Reform to be roundly beaten Also a victory for Green would encourage Starmer to start looking leftwards and stop apeing the fascists
    The more parties that beat Reform in any given election can only be a good thing.
    I don't see Labour getting their vote out on Thursday. Why would they?

    Weather is light rain and a breeze.
    Quite acceptable for the Manchester area then!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464
    It is proving a shit sporting weekend for me, time to go all in on Forest winning today, 4s on Betfair.

    FYI - Forest's fixtures next year could be wild.

    Bristol City (H)

    Real Madrid (A)

    Lincoln City (A)

    PSG (H)
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,375
    Brixian59 said:

    Whilst I don't see Bridget Phillipson as a Leadership Candidate, and I believe she was wrong to let herself be used as a pawn by McSweeney in the Deputy Leadership contest, as an Education Secretary she is increasingly impressive.

    The SEND issue is a minefield of malpractice, bad proceeds delay, angst and frustration and a huge cost to the Exchequer.

    It would appear that her detailed proposals to be announced tomorrow will be a considered attempt to move the matter forwards, better for the majority of parents and children and for schools.

    No doubt some will be loud opponents as is always the case, but hopefully all but the mad left of Labour, and the sensible majority of others will support it.

    A big test for Tories and Reform who appear to have no coherent plans and for the Tories whose whole education policy seemed to be run by the crazed nutcase Babslsingh an area where they have zero credibility.


    Last time Starmer tried to fiddle with some SEND related benefits, sensible Labour did not row in behind.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,551
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
    Agreed. I mean Bromley is possible i suppose but even the by election win in favourable conditions of polling in Bromley Common doesnt scream 'majority'.
    And Labour holding on everywhere is just daft on every single metric available.
    Oh well, more fun taking the piss out of them later
    I think Bromley’s too posh for Reform.

    I think they’ll do very well in Dagenham, but won’t win the borough.

    Hillingdon, Croydon, even Sutton are possibles, but in the first two, I think a Con/ Reform coalition is more likely.

    Westminster can’t be NOC. It’s either Con or Lab, and I think Con is most likely.

    Labour, IMHO, will lose Barnet, Camden, Merton, and quite possibly, Enfield, Wandsworth, Haringey, and Islington.
    I definitely think Reform is acquiring a class dimension.

    The trouble is the Right can't win if the posher voters go Conservative and the saltier ones go Reform under FPTP.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,551

    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
    Was it The Apprentice that made him jump the shark?

    I don't doubt he's always been unethical/highly questionable, but he's got much worse over the last 15+ years.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 694
    Ratters said:

    Roger said:

    Foxy said:

    Brixian59 said:

    This backs up some corroborative evidence that the Muslim vote in Gorton is going lukewarm on Greens and back to Labour.

    Signs of a significant change in PM mindset on Trump.

    Hmm, the New Statesman isn't so convinced:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2026/02/in-gorton-and-denton-the-muslim-vote-is-fracturing

    Is Gorton and Denton going the same way as Stoneygate ward in Leicester did this week?
    Second would be ideal. Labour don't need the seat but as far as it's possible it would be good for Reform to be roundly beaten Also a victory for Green would encourage Starmer to start looking leftwards and stop apeing the fascists
    The more parties that beat Reform in any given election can only be a good thing.
    Second would have been a pleasant shock two weeks ago.

    It will still be heralded a massive shock but the right wing media will be in a massive conundrum if golden boy Farage comes third or indeed second.

    It would be a massive choker for them to have to report a combined left wing thrashing of the right.

    Totally agree about the need for Labour to shake the blinkers off now and focus on Polanski and not Farage.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006
    Brixian59 said:

    Whilst I don't see Bridget Phillipson as a Leadership Candidate, and I believe she was wrong to let herself be used as a pawn by McSweeney in the Deputy Leadership contest, as an Education Secretary she is increasingly impressive.

    The SEND issue is a minefield of malpractice, bad proceeds delay, angst and frustration and a huge cost to the Exchequer.

    It would appear that her detailed proposals to be announced tomorrow will be a considered attempt to move the matter forwards, better for the majority of parents and children and for schools.

    No doubt some will be loud opponents as is always the case, but hopefully all but the mad left of Labour, and the sensible majority of others will support it.

    A big test for Tories and Reform who appear to have no coherent plans and for the Tories whose whole education policy seemed to be run by the crazed nutcase Babslsingh an area where they have zero credibility.


    I’m wary of speaking too much on send but I worry that we have an epidemic of children that somehow need extra Bath Uni a quarter of the new intake had a statement of some issue or another. Often it’s anxiety, or related. Many claim extra time in exams. How much is genuine and how much is gaming the system? Do we no longer accept that some kids will be better academically than others?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,078
    edited 11:01AM

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Anything except a land invasion, which is the only thing that would work, at least in the short term.

    Just throwing a few bombs and missiles into Iran would be very unlikely to get regime change - it would probably just get the Ayatollahs to crack down even harder. Regime change in a country of 25 million in 2003 took a year's preparation and half a million ground troops. This time there are only two carrier battle groups - more than enough firepower for some punitive airstrikes, but nothing like enough to invade a country, let alone occupy it.

    So I see this more as a distraction from the Epstein files than an attempt to do anything meaningful there. Of course it's possible that the Iranian regime is so weak that the opposition will be encouraged sufficiently to overthrow it. I doubt that's the case, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, but of course I've no more information than anyone else on this.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,755
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    People aren't stupid. Trump has instincts closer to the Iranian regime than with western democracy.

    The motivation for any bombing campaign would be about distracting from Epstein/tariffs, or a power trip, not supporting a revolution. See Greenland/NATO/Venezuela.

    The Trump administration has certainly been trying to make a deal with the murderous regime.

    And yet it's not impossible that US intervention would provide the impetus for the Iranian regime to be overthrown.

    And on the other, other hand, no one has a clue of what might follow that, and it certainly didn't seem to form any part of whatever the US plan is.

    I'd have been in the don't knows in this poll.
    Trump doesn't care who runs Iran, he doesn't care how that government treats its citizens, he only cares what he can get out of a deal.

    You only have to look at Venezuela to see what motivates Trump. It's not the government which is basically the same as before, and not the people, it's getting money, ideally they ends up under his direct control.

    Then of course there is Ukraine, which is about as straightforward a conflict as you could imagine with Russia entirely in the wrong. What is Trump proposing? Ukraine to give Russia more territory, and disarm, so that the US can gain a fig leaf to restart trade with Russia.

    I don't have much hope that any deal or conflict that Trump has a hand in will make life better for Iranians.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,779
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Anything except a land invasion, which is the only thing that would work, at least in the short term.

    Just throwing a few bombs and missiles into Iran would be very unlikely to get regime change - it would probably just get the Ayatollahs to crack down even harder. Regime change in a country of 25 million in 2003 took a year's preparation and half a million ground troops. This time there are only two carrier battle groups - more than enough firepower for some punitive airstrikes, but nothing like enough to invade a country, let alone occupy it.

    So I see this more as a distraction from the Epstein files than an attempt to do anything meaningful there. Of course it's possible that the Iranian regime is so weak that the opposition will be encouraged sufficiently to overthrow it. I doubt that's the case, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, but of course I've no more information than anyone else on this.
    The last land invasion of Iran, by the Iraqis ended in a stalemate. Neither side made much difference to the other; neither regime changed, just a lot or ordinary people died.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,006

    It is proving a shit sporting weekend for me, time to go all in on Forest winning today, 4s on Betfair.

    FYI - Forest's fixtures next year could be wild.

    Bristol City (H)

    Real Madrid (A)

    Lincoln City (A)

    PSG (H)

    Can sides in the championship play in europe? Last time Swindon were eligible a new tournament was created ? (Anglo Italian cup). That’s was back a while now mind.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,375
    edited 11:07AM

    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
    Was it The Apprentice that made him jump the shark?

    I don't doubt he's always been unethical/highly questionable, but he's got much worse over the last 15+ years.
    The birther stuff was the first public spasm of Modern Trump, unless someone knows better?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464

    It is proving a shit sporting weekend for me, time to go all in on Forest winning today, 4s on Betfair.

    FYI - Forest's fixtures next year could be wild.

    Bristol City (H)

    Real Madrid (A)

    Lincoln City (A)

    PSG (H)

    Can sides in the championship play in europe? Last time Swindon were eligible a new tournament was created ? (Anglo Italian cup). That’s was back a while now mind.
    Yes, Wigan did so in 2013/14.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,215

    Restore have announcrd Orla Minihane founder of the Pink Ladies as their Women and Girls safety spokesperson

    Hmmm. I still have her down as one possible Restore Britain defector, following the company she kept.

    But that should lock her in - candidate for2029, perhaps?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,913

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    The reason that the regieme is fighting this was is desperation - they know what will happen them, if they lose.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,464
    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
    Was it The Apprentice that made him jump the shark?

    I don't doubt he's always been unethical/highly questionable, but he's got much worse over the last 15+ years.
    The birther stuff was the first public spasm of Modern Trump, unless someone knows better?
    1989

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case#Media_coverage
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,215
    edited 11:16AM
    carnforth said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Whilst I don't see Bridget Phillipson as a Leadership Candidate, and I believe she was wrong to let herself be used as a pawn by McSweeney in the Deputy Leadership contest, as an Education Secretary she is increasingly impressive.

    The SEND issue is a minefield of malpractice, bad proceeds delay, angst and frustration and a huge cost to the Exchequer.

    It would appear that her detailed proposals to be announced tomorrow will be a considered attempt to move the matter forwards, better for the majority of parents and children and for schools.

    No doubt some will be loud opponents as is always the case, but hopefully all but the mad left of Labour, and the sensible majority of others will support it.

    A big test for Tories and Reform who appear to have no coherent plans and for the Tories whose whole education policy seemed to be run by the crazed nutcase Babslsingh an area where they have zero credibility.


    Last time Starmer tried to fiddle with some SEND related benefits, sensible Labour did not row in behind.
    It seems to me to be an area crying out for reform for years and years, both on services and especially transport.

    (I've cashed out G&D; I don't trust my judgement if it is volatile.)
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,427

    DavidL said:

    Surely much more important this morning is what can England hope to get against SL? Would have thought they will need 200.

    Hmmm....I think 175 would do it, but they're going to struggle to get that.
    146/9.....I rest my case.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693

    DavidL said:

    Surely much more important this morning is what can England hope to get against SL? Would have thought they will need 200.

    Hmmm....I think 175 would do it, but they're going to struggle to get that.
    146/9.....I rest my case.
    30 short
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,913
    edited 11:20AM
    a

    carnforth said:

    Nigelb said:

    The other factor which is insufficiently discussed is Trump's mental deterioration.
    It's increasingly unlikely that he's able to make even vaguely rational decisions (and pace william, "Trump's instincts" are almost entirely malign).

    I would dispute that. Look at the way he spoke with great humanity about the victims of the Iraq war back in 2007:

    https://x.com/mazemoore/status/1750020277210169760
    Was it The Apprentice that made him jump the shark?

    I don't doubt he's always been unethical/highly questionable, but he's got much worse over the last 15+ years.
    The birther stuff was the first public spasm of Modern Trump, unless someone knows better?
    1989

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case#Media_coverage
    Racism in his management of apartment buildings in New York was very apparent, IIRC, right from the start of his taking over the family business.

    He was paying off Jesse Jackson via PUSH, to try and ameliorate the damage court cases were doing, IIRC.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,562

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    In the Telegraph, Reform seem to think they will win in May Havering, Bexley, Bromley, Barking, Hillingdon and Croydon with the LDs holding theirs, Westminster NoC, Tories Harrow and K and C and everything else Labour (ffs, thats just ridiculous)

    Im not sure what data they are looking at.

    I'll be very surprised if Reform have overall majorities in more than Havering and Bexley

    Largest party or significant gains, sure

    It's all expectations management or wishcasting or whatever.

    I'd be astonished if Reform won Barking - yes, they could well win seats there and in a number of other Boroughs and they could deny the Conservatives outright control in Croydon and Barnet but I don't see that kind of turquoise wave on current evidence.
    Agreed. I mean Bromley is possible i suppose but even the by election win in favourable conditions of polling in Bromley Common doesnt scream 'majority'.
    And Labour holding on everywhere is just daft on every single metric available.
    Oh well, more fun taking the piss out of them later
    I think Bromley’s too posh for Reform.

    I think they’ll do very well in Dagenham, but won’t win the borough.

    Hillingdon, Croydon, even Sutton are possibles, but in the first two, I think a Con/ Reform coalition is more likely.

    Westminster can’t be NOC. It’s either Con or Lab, and I think Con is most likely.

    Labour, IMHO, will lose Barnet, Camden, Merton, and quite possibly, Enfield, Wandsworth, Haringey, and Islington.
    I definitely think Reform is acquiring a class dimension.

    The trouble is the Right can't win if the posher voters go Conservative and the saltier ones go Reform under FPTP.
    IMHO, it’s that sort of sorting that helps to maximise gains under FPTP. Reform challenge Labour in the Red Wall, the Conservatives in wealthier places.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    MattW said:

    Restore have announcrd Orla Minihane founder of the Pink Ladies as their Women and Girls safety spokesperson

    Hmmm. I still have her down as one possible Restore Britain defector, following the company she kept.

    But that should lock her in - candidate for2029, perhaps?
    For Restore? Almost certainly as shes taken on a spokesperson role.
    Reform are startimg to look like yesterdays radicals with Captain Pugwash doing a Greta for photo ops.
    Third in G and D and the bottom can start falling out
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,078

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Anything except a land invasion, which is the only thing that would work, at least in the short term.

    Just throwing a few bombs and missiles into Iran would be very unlikely to get regime change - it would probably just get the Ayatollahs to crack down even harder. Regime change in a country of 25 million in 2003 took a year's preparation and half a million ground troops. This time there are only two carrier battle groups - more than enough firepower for some punitive airstrikes, but nothing like enough to invade a country, let alone occupy it.

    So I see this more as a distraction from the Epstein files than an attempt to do anything meaningful there. Of course it's possible that the Iranian regime is so weak that the opposition will be encouraged sufficiently to overthrow it. I doubt that's the case, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, but of course I've no more information than anyone else on this.
    The last land invasion of Iran, by the Iraqis ended in a stalemate. Neither side made much difference to the other; neither regime changed, just a lot or ordinary people died.
    True but I don't think the Iraqi army of 1980 is analagous to the American army of 2026 - if America invaded in serious force it would undoubtedly overthrow the Iranian regime very quickly.

    But then of course it would face the insoluble problems of governing a huge and hostile country of 90 million people teeming with religious fanatics and other madmen. A rule of thumb I've heard is you need one soldier for every 20 inhabitants to occupy a country. So the Americans would need 4.5 million troops, or around ten times their current active duty army, just to occupy Iran.

    I know Trump never thinks things through, but even the Epstein files can't really be that bad for him, can they?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,508
    Anyone opposing clearly does not give a damn about Iranian civilians who are getting massacred by the regime.

    Donald Trump is an arsehole and anti-democracy, but that does not make the Ayatollahs acceptable.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,215
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Anything except a land invasion, which is the only thing that would work, at least in the short term.

    Just throwing a few bombs and missiles into Iran would be very unlikely to get regime change - it would probably just get the Ayatollahs to crack down even harder. Regime change in a country of 25 million in 2003 took a year's preparation and half a million ground troops. This time there are only two carrier battle groups - more than enough firepower for some punitive airstrikes, but nothing like enough to invade a country, let alone occupy it.

    So I see this more as a distraction from the Epstein files than an attempt to do anything meaningful there. Of course it's possible that the Iranian regime is so weak that the opposition will be encouraged sufficiently to overthrow it. I doubt that's the case, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, but of course I've no more information than anyone else on this.
    The last land invasion of Iran, by the Iraqis ended in a stalemate. Neither side made much difference to the other; neither regime changed, just a lot or ordinary people died.
    True but I don't think the Iraqi army of 1980 is analagous to the American army of 2026 - if America invaded in serious force it would undoubtedly overthrow the Iranian regime very quickly.

    Invade how? It's 700km from the Gulf to Tehran with several inconvenient mountain ranges in the way.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,693
    Dura_Ace said:

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    I am in awe at the courage of those Iranian students.

    The medical too, from my family's Iranian heritage friends, they are killing the doctors/nurses/pharmacists who are treating the wounded.
    Despicable.
    They are utterly evil

    Iran authorities demanding large sums for return of protesters' bodies, BBC told

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g5md1n1yxo

    Family of Iranian protester forced to 'pay for the bullet that killed their son'

    https://news.sky.com/story/family-of-iranian-protester-forced-to-pay-for-the-bullet-that-killed-their-son-13508060
    And there is a wave of executions following sham trials now going on.

    Trump has once already encouraged continuing protests with the promise of intervention, and not followed through.

    Will this time be different ?
    Military guy in Telegraph wrote yesterday that the 2nd aircraft carrier doesn't arrive in Eastern Med until Tuesday.

    After that - anything could kick off.

    Anything except a land invasion, which is the only thing that would work, at least in the short term.

    Just throwing a few bombs and missiles into Iran would be very unlikely to get regime change - it would probably just get the Ayatollahs to crack down even harder. Regime change in a country of 25 million in 2003 took a year's preparation and half a million ground troops. This time there are only two carrier battle groups - more than enough firepower for some punitive airstrikes, but nothing like enough to invade a country, let alone occupy it.

    So I see this more as a distraction from the Epstein files than an attempt to do anything meaningful there. Of course it's possible that the Iranian regime is so weak that the opposition will be encouraged sufficiently to overthrow it. I doubt that's the case, based on what we've seen over the last couple of months, but of course I've no more information than anyone else on this.
    The last land invasion of Iran, by the Iraqis ended in a stalemate. Neither side made much difference to the other; neither regime changed, just a lot or ordinary people died.
    True but I don't think the Iraqi army of 1980 is analagous to the American army of 2026 - if America invaded in serious force it would undoubtedly overthrow the Iranian regime very quickly.

    Invade how? It's 700km from the Gulf to Tehran with several inconvenient mountain ranges in the way.
    Indeed. Its an even more difficult Afghanistan
    Provoking an overthrow and putting in the puppet shah is the plan, surely
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