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Hurrah for lawyers, they are essential for democracy – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,951
edited February 16 in General
Hurrah for lawyers, they are essential for democracy – politicalbetting.com

The government has confirmed it is scrapping plans to delay 30 local council elections after receiving legal adviceIn a letter seen by PolHome, ministers were warned that the decision to delay dozens of local elections would be illegalNigel Farage's Reform UK had launched a legal challenge

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 32,606
    First as reform will be in May an as I was with the news
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    Two cheers for democracy as Starmer is Forster change policy.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,561
    “There will be a Cabinet Office investigation into the allegations and quite right too. And so that is already in place. I didn’t know anything about this investigation and it absolutely needs to be looked into. So the Cabinet Office will be establishing the facts”

    Does he even know that his Parliamentary Secretary for the Cabinet Office was director of Labour Together?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    edited February 16
    Hmmm.

    Sri Lanka struggling to get the ball away, and on top of that, one of their batsmen is carrying a foot injury and finding running difficult.

    This is still on for the cheating convicts. Especially if they keep taking wickets like that.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    Worth bearimg in mind if youre expecting Reform to take dozens of councils, 23 of the 30 are only a third up, 2 are half and only Thurrock and the Tory counties are all up
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,507
    wooliedyed said:

    Worth bearimg in mind if youre expecting Reform to take dozens of councils, 23 of the 30 are only a third up, 2 are half and only Thurrock and the Tory counties are all up

    Do we know which wards with the Councils and which party is currently in position? Just trying to put together a spreadsheet but if the information is out there, then it will save some time.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    I wonder if Rupe made his move late last week having got inside knowledge this legal challenge would force a u turn.

    It may be a pure coincidence but a very very opportune time to make an impact in Tory heartlands and some Labour councils too.

    It could also neuter Reform enough to see Rupes party possibly even beat the Tories on the NEV

    Could easily see Reform and Rupe getting 50% or more combined and beating the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who asked to cancel the vote.

    Labour will be shellacked no doubt but may beat Tories in the smaller number of seats that are still tory lab or where reform and Rupe thrash tories

    I agree

    Badenoch toast by end of May

    Starmer no earlier than July by which time Labour will have to find someone to beat Cleverly.

    If I were a Labour strategist, I'd leave Starmer there until I know who Tory leader is, as Tories could easily ship another 20 mps to reform or Rupert from tory right before or after Kemi goes.

    Lab v Cleverly as opposed to a right winger would favour a slightly more centre left leader.

    Not good for Streeting if Cleverly is Tory leader better for Rayner Jones etc
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,783
    StillWaters said:

    Doesn’t the government have an Attorney General who is supposed to know about the law?

    But that would involve people knowing things. And if they know things, they would be responsible for them.

    As the great philosopher put it - “….We know this. The Chinese know that we know. But we make-believe that we don't know and the Chinese make-believe that they believe that we don't know, but know that we know. Everybody knows.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,119
    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,507
    edited February 16
    Battlebus said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Worth bearimg in mind if youre expecting Reform to take dozens of councils, 23 of the 30 are only a third up, 2 are half and only Thurrock and the Tory counties are all up

    Do we know which wards with the Councils and which party is currently in position? Just trying to put together a spreadsheet but if the information is out there, then it will save some time.
    There is a list here. Accurate?

    https://opencouncildata.co.uk/elections.php
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    Battlebus said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Worth bearimg in mind if youre expecting Reform to take dozens of councils, 23 of the 30 are only a third up, 2 are half and only Thurrock and the Tory counties are all up

    Do we know which wards with the Councils and which party is currently in position? Just trying to put together a spreadsheet but if the information is out there, then it will save some time.
    With most DCs on thirds it will be all wards as they elect one councillor per ward 3 yesrs out of 4 (and 2022s winner defending)
    Where there have been reorganisations and last time was all out and this time is a third or half the lowest elected in the ward defends.
    Im not sure if there is a resource short if trawling wiki - try Mark Pack, Election Maps, Britain Votes or Britain Elects as possibilities?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,556
    Is head to head or run rate considered first ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    edited February 16
    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,929
    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,996
    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    I believe Raggety has been approached to stand in Dunny on the Wold.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,996
    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    More Rupert the Bore than Rupert the Bear.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,026
    wooliedyed said:

    Battlebus said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Worth bearimg in mind if youre expecting Reform to take dozens of councils, 23 of the 30 are only a third up, 2 are half and only Thurrock and the Tory counties are all up

    Do we know which wards with the Councils and which party is currently in position? Just trying to put together a spreadsheet but if the information is out there, then it will save some time.
    With most DCs on thirds it will be all wards as they elect one councillor per ward 3 yesrs out of 4 (and 2022s winner defending)
    Where there have been reorganisations and last time was all out and this time is a third or half the lowest elected in the ward defends.
    Im not sure if there is a resource short if trawling wiki - try Mark Pack, Election Maps, Britain Votes or Britain Elects as possibilities?
    It is a little sad on the dedicated amateurs like Andrew Teale, but Wikipedia is an increasingly full fat source on local election history and becoming my initial go to - although they cannot hope to replicate the weekly by-election reports.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    Pulpstar said:

    Is head to head or run rate considered first ?

    Run rate.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    edited February 16
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    You wonder why they didn't get that advice *before* trying to postpone elections.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    I believe Raggety has been approached to stand in Dunny on the Wold.
    As many as he can, he'll never have a better chance to hit the ground running.

    He could make a bit impact.

    Limit Reform top line, increase Tory slide. I think he'll have more joy in Tory South. Lab to Reform switchers will likely stick with Nigel.

    I'm convinced he knew something was on the cards and had to move quickly.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    Will Gullis be up again for Mayor of Camberwick Green??
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    Exactly. Judicial interference = applying the law. Like the outcome in any particular instance or not, it's an essential protection.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,170
    Thoughts and prayers for Starmer's genie.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 126,350
    Hahaha!

    Australia!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    Congratulations to Sri Lanka. In the end, they made it look easy.

    And Australia are out bar a huge win for Ireland against Zimbabwe.

    That's very sad. Very sad indeed. So sad I just actually fell off my chair while crying.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,941
    I hope Labour get as much shit flung at them for trying to cancel elections for many, many months (when they clearly had no legal basis for doing so) as Boris got when he tried to prorogue Parliament for a month.

    Chances? Zero...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,726
    ydoethur said:

    Congratulations to Sri Lanka. In the end, they made it look easy.

    And Australia are out bar a huge win for Ireland against Zimbabwe.

    That's very sad. Very sad indeed. So sad I just actually fell off my chair while crying.

    Should we cheer for Ireland, then, or Zimbabwe?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,639
    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    If it is true that Reform had gone to law over it, and the government had caved in before it was heard, describing that as 'judicial interference' is reasonable shorthand. Most cases never get to court, Often because one side knows that 'judicial interference' means they would lose.

    Also, a nice example of the UK not yet quite being the USA.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    OldKingCole said:

    ydoethur said:

    Congratulations to Sri Lanka. In the end, they made it look easy.

    And Australia are out bar a huge win for Ireland against Zimbabwe.

    That's very sad. Very sad indeed. So sad I just actually fell off my chair while crying.

    Should we cheer for Ireland, then, or Zimbabwe?
    Definitely Zimbabwe.

    I mean, c'mon, knocking out the Aussies, that's got to be worth it.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,929
    algarkirk said:

    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    If it is true that Reform had gone to law over it, and the government had caved in before it was heard, describing that as 'judicial interference' is reasonable shorthand. Most cases never get to court, Often because one side knows that 'judicial interference' means they would lose.

    Also, a nice example of the UK not yet quite being the USA.
    The government not doing something because it would be illegal is judicial interference? The government could of course change the law if it so pleased.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    You wonder why they didn't get that advice *before* trying to postpone elections.
    Good question. I thought Starmer was meant to be in thrall to legal niceties. This seems to have been more a case of JFDI. But now not as it turns out. Odd one.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,726
    ydoethur said:

    OldKingCole said:

    ydoethur said:

    Congratulations to Sri Lanka. In the end, they made it look easy.

    And Australia are out bar a huge win for Ireland against Zimbabwe.

    That's very sad. Very sad indeed. So sad I just actually fell off my chair while crying.

    Should we cheer for Ireland, then, or Zimbabwe?
    Definitely Zimbabwe.

    I mean, c'mon, knocking out the Aussies, that's got to be worth it.
    I suspect there'll be a fair few Sri Lankans doing the same.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Rupe made his move late last week having got inside knowledge this legal challenge would force a u turn.

    It may be a pure coincidence but a very very opportune time to make an impact in Tory heartlands and some Labour councils too.

    It could also neuter Reform enough to see Rupes party possibly even beat the Tories on the NEV

    Could easily see Reform and Rupe getting 50% or more combined and beating the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who asked to cancel the vote.

    Labour will be shellacked no doubt but may beat Tories in the smaller number of seats that are still tory lab or where reform and Rupe thrash tories

    I agree

    Badenoch toast by end of May

    Starmer no earlier than July by which time Labour will have to find someone to beat Cleverly.

    If I were a Labour strategist, I'd leave Starmer there until I know who Tory leader is, as Tories could easily ship another 20 mps to reform or Rupert from tory right before or after Kemi goes.

    Lab v Cleverly as opposed to a right winger would favour a slightly more centre left leader.

    Not good for Streeting if Cleverly is Tory leader better for Rayner Jones etc

    Though if swing voters still voting Labour switch to a Cleverly led Tories only Streeting might be able to win them back
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 500
    Hurrah for lawyers getting this decision overturned

    It's well seen that the government aren't led by a lawyer who advocated for the delay in the first place

    On Mrs Badenoch, it is useful for her that the Tory benches look pretty sparse for potential replacements with Jenrick and Braverman away. Not an easy gig sitting on around 120 seats trying to win back power when you need to fight Lab on the left, Lib Dems in the centre and Reform and mini Reforms on the right
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,996
    OldKingCole said:

    ydoethur said:

    Congratulations to Sri Lanka. In the end, they made it look easy.

    And Australia are out bar a huge win for Ireland against Zimbabwe.

    That's very sad. Very sad indeed. So sad I just actually fell off my chair while crying.

    Should we cheer for Ireland, then, or Zimbabwe?
    The Zimbo’s.

    Decent young team that has benefitted from a fair bit of cricket in the last 18 months and Sikandar Raza is one of the best T20 players in the world
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,561
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    You wonder why they didn't get that advice *before* trying to postpone elections.
    Good question. I thought Starmer was meant to be in thrall to legal niceties. This seems to have been more a case of JFDI. But now not as it turns out. Odd one.
    I don't think that we can assume that Starmer knew anything at all about the decision, given his recent record of convenient ignorance
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,624
    edited February 16
    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    Limiting factor is likely to be finding candidates, I imagine. (Same goes for Reform. They did an impressive job in 2025, but district wards are smaller, so you need more names.)

    Close of nominations is Thursday 9 April at 4pm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    edited February 16
    DoctorG said:

    Hurrah for lawyers getting this decision overturned

    It's well seen that the government aren't led by a lawyer who advocated for the delay in the first place

    On Mrs Badenoch, it is useful for her that the Tory benches look pretty sparse for potential replacements with Jenrick and Braverman away. Not an easy gig sitting on around 120 seats trying to win back power when you need to fight Lab on the left, Lib Dems in the centre and Reform and mini Reforms on the right

    Many more Tory MPs would vote for Cleverly if he was certain to replace Kemi than would have risked removing Kemi only to get Jenrick. Cleverly could occupy the centre ground and appeal to centrist swing voters in a way Kemi hasn't and nor would Jenrick have.

    Jenrick's defection and lots more Tory controlled councils having elections in May means Kemi is now just as at risk of losing her leadership if the local and devolved elections go badly for her party as Starmer is. Whichever of the Tories or Labour come third on NEV in May will almost certainly remove their leader over the summer
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,639
    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,996
    Stuartinromford said:

    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    Limiting factor is likely to be finding candidates, I imagine. (Same goes for Reform. They did an impressive job in 2025, but district wards are smaller, so you need more names.)

    Close of nominations is Thursday 9 April at 4pm.
    Even labour have reportedly struggled to find candidates in the North East.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,026
    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    I get the impression it has just gone through on the nod in previous years, with no challenge to a long standing practice.

    Is there anywhere that gives a full list out of postponed local elections back to 1979, from previous reading I believe they are very numerous.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,649
    Greens 10.5 most seats, has to be a lay
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,463
    A double shellackathon in May.

    LibDems to finish second to NEV?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    Full slate in the Yarmouth wards id imagine plus as many as he can muster for the rest of Norfolk and aside from that, some targetted approach. He might try and target one Welsh and one Scottish region
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    Pro_Rata said:

    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    I get the impression it has just gone through on the nod in previous years, with no challenge to a long standing practice.

    Is there anywhere that gives a full list out of postponed local elections back to 1979, from previous reading I believe they are very numerous.
    Indeed totally l hypocritical of some Tories.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,805
    Brixian59 said:

    I wonder if Rupe made his move late last week having got inside knowledge this legal challenge would force a u turn.

    It may be a pure coincidence but a very very opportune time to make an impact in Tory heartlands and some Labour councils too.

    It could also neuter Reform enough to see Rupes party possibly even beat the Tories on the NEV

    Could easily see Reform and Rupe getting 50% or more combined and beating the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who asked to cancel the vote.

    Labour will be shellacked no doubt but may beat Tories in the smaller number of seats that are still tory lab or where reform and Rupe thrash tories

    I agree

    Badenoch toast by end of May

    Starmer no earlier than July by which time Labour will have to find someone to beat Cleverly.

    If I were a Labour strategist, I'd leave Starmer there until I know who Tory leader is, as Tories could easily ship another 20 mps to reform or Rupert from tory right before or after Kemi goes.

    Lab v Cleverly as opposed to a right winger would favour a slightly more centre left leader.

    Not good for Streeting if Cleverly is Tory leader better for Rayner Jones etc

    Tosh

    It was plain for everyone to see Farage would win apart from those in no 10

    Kemi is going nowhere

    Starmer is staring into the abyss
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    SandyRentool said:

    A double shellackathon in May.

    LibDems to finish second to NEV?

    Ref>Con>LD>Lab>Green
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    MarqueeMark said:

    I hope Labour get as much shit flung at them for trying to cancel elections for many, many months (when they clearly had no legal basis for doing so) as Boris got when he tried to prorogue Parliament for a month.

    Chances? Zero...

    Labour are being spanked in the media. Johnson's prorogation punishment came later after it was discovered he had lied to our gracious Queen. The Queen Liz Truss, you know...
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    HYUFD the voice of common sense and realism on the Right.

    The judgement is a calamity for Labour and US Labour people are prepared to say it, but it's a disaster for the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who defied thelr gutless leader to try to avoid elections
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,805
    edited February 16
    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    Repetitive posting does not make it anything other than your own prefernce which in Kemi case is you, for some reason ,wish casting

    You and @Brixian59 on the same page is quite something
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,411
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    Repetitive posting does not make it anything other than your own prefernce which in Kemi case is you, for some reason ,wish casting

    You and @Brixian59 on the same page is quite something
    Brilliant. One repetitive poster accuses another repetitive poster of repetitive posting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,596
    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,783
    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    They couldn't find deeply experienced barristers of a forensic level of skill.....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,800
    Today's decision = Splendid victory for common sense!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,800
    Brixian59 said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    HYUFD the voice of common sense and realism on the Right.

    The judgement is a calamity for Labour and US Labour people are prepared to say it, but it's a disaster for the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who defied thelr gutless leader to try to avoid elections
    "WE Labour people."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 90,060
    edited February 16
    U-Turn...your joking, not another one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the getting rid of jury trails will get reversed before to long.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 77,652
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    U-Turn...your joking, not another one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the getting rid of jury trails will get reversed before to long.

    Almost as many u-turns as in the early days of Cameron's government, and for much the same reason.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    County council predictions

    Essex Reform Gain
    East and West Sussex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Hampshire NOC
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    ydoethur said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    U-Turn...your joking, not another one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the getting rid of jury trails will get reversed before to long.

    Almost as many u-turns as in the early days of Cameron's government, and for much the same reason.
    That doesn't count. Cameron is a PB God.

    Although this does appear especially chaotic.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,119
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    More Rupert the Bore than Rupert the Bear.
    I want to see him in the correct scarf, to go with the sort of red jacket that that type of Tory used to wear. Plus the Rupert Payne Stewart golfer trousers.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,119
    Northern_Al said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    Repetitive posting does not make it anything other than your own prefernce which in Kemi case is you, for some reason ,wish casting

    You and @Brixian59 on the same page is quite something
    Brilliant. One repetitive poster accuses another repetitive poster of repetitive posting.
    Restore Repetitive Repetition, Rupert.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    edited February 16
    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,119
    Stuartinromford said:

    MattW said:

    How many candidates do we think Rupert can bear to stand?

    Limiting factor is likely to be finding candidates, I imagine. (Same goes for Reform. They did an impressive job in 2025, but district wards are smaller, so you need more names.)

    Close of nominations is Thursday 9 April at 4pm.
    It would be fun if he found lots and they were all ex-Conservatives !
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    BlancheLivermore said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    kinabalu said:

    I bet many of the people who regularly decry judicial interference in government policy like this example of it.

    What judicial interference? They U-turned on the back of their legal advice saying the move would be illegal.
    You wonder why they didn't get that advice *before* trying to postpone elections.
    Good question. I thought Starmer was meant to be in thrall to legal niceties. This seems to have been more a case of JFDI. But now not as it turns out. Odd one.
    I don't think that we can assume that Starmer knew anything at all about the decision, given his recent record of convenient ignorance
    Now wait a minute, Mr Blanche, what do you mean by that exactly?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    Mexicanpete said:

    ydoethur said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    U-Turn...your joking, not another one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the getting rid of jury trails will get reversed before to long.

    Almost as many u-turns as in the early days of Cameron's government, and for much the same reason.
    That doesn't count. Cameron is a PB God.

    Although this does appear especially chaotic.
    Call Me Dave resonates a lot better than Call Me Keir

    Anyone who could soak all the Lilets on the front row of the Tory Conference when he effectively launched his leadership campaign, literally a litmus test, deserves to be a god
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Brixian59 said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    HYUFD the voice of common sense and realism on the Right.

    The judgement is a calamity for Labour and US Labour people are prepared to say it, but it's a disaster for the Tories, especially those Tory Councils who defied thelr gutless leader to try to avoid elections
    "WE Labour people."
    I'm a life long labour voter, a lapsed member, I've never hidden that Rishi
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,596
    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    The results will be awful for Labour and see leadership change for the Tories and a shed load more detections
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,668
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    U-Turn...your joking, not another one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the getting rid of jury trails will get reversed before to long.

    Think that one was always about shifting the Overton window. So suggest getting rid of jury trials for 90% of cases so they can actually get rid of them for 25% of cases. We shall see.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,119
    Pro_Rata said:

    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    I get the impression it has just gone through on the nod in previous years, with no challenge to a long standing practice.

    Is there anywhere that gives a full list out of postponed local elections back to 1979, from previous reading I believe they are very numerous.
    I asked Claude for "since 1990", and this was the answer. It is probably about right, and there is enough there for the Govt to throw back at the Conservatives if accurate (especially 2019, 2020, 2021), but they won't do it effectively because they dance to others' tunes, when they should be writing the music.

    ---
    2001 - Foot and Mouth Disease
    All local elections in England, Wales and Northern Ireland originally scheduled for May 2001 were postponed by one month to 7 June 2001 due to the foot-and-mouth outbreak.

    2019 - Local Government Reorganisation
    District council elections across Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire, scheduled for May 2019, were postponed ahead of the creation of new unitary authorities in those areas Electoral Reform Society.

    2020 - COVID-19 Pandemic
    All local elections scheduled for May 2020 in England were postponed to May 2021 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. This included:

    County councils in England
    Police and Crime Commissioners
    London Mayor and London Assembly elections
    Metropolitan borough elections
    Various mayoral elections

    2021 - Local Government Reorganisation
    County council elections in Cumbria, North Yorkshire, and Somerset, scheduled for May 2021, were postponed to May 2022 because of plans to reorganise local government structure.

    2025 - Local Government Reorganisation
    Elections to nine councils (seven county councils and two unitary authorities) were postponed from May 2025 to 2026 Wikipedia. The affected councils were: Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East Sussex, West Sussex, Hampshire (county councils), plus Thurrock and Isle of Wight (unitary authorities).

    2026 - Local Government Reorganisation
    29 council elections have been postponed from May 2026 as part of the ongoing local government reorganisation programme, though on 16 February 2026, the government withdrew its plans to delay elections after receiving legal advice that the move would be unlawful.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,624
    MattW said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    I get the impression it has just gone through on the nod in previous years, with no challenge to a long standing practice.

    Is there anywhere that gives a full list out of postponed local elections back to 1979, from previous reading I believe they are very numerous.
    I asked Claude for "since 1990", and this was the answer. It is probably about right, and there is enough there for the Govt to throw back at the Conservatives if accurate (especially 2019, 2020, 2021), but they won't do it effectively because they dance to others' tunes, when they should be writing the music.

    ---
    2001 - Foot and Mouth Disease
    All local elections in England, Wales and Northern Ireland originally scheduled for May 2001 were postponed by one month to 7 June 2001 due to the foot-and-mouth outbreak.

    2019 - Local Government Reorganisation
    District council elections across Buckinghamshire and Northamptonshire, scheduled for May 2019, were postponed ahead of the creation of new unitary authorities in those areas Electoral Reform Society.

    2020 - COVID-19 Pandemic
    All local elections scheduled for May 2020 in England were postponed to May 2021 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. This included:

    County councils in England
    Police and Crime Commissioners
    London Mayor and London Assembly elections
    Metropolitan borough elections
    Various mayoral elections

    2021 - Local Government Reorganisation
    County council elections in Cumbria, North Yorkshire, and Somerset, scheduled for May 2021, were postponed to May 2022 because of plans to reorganise local government structure.

    2025 - Local Government Reorganisation
    Elections to nine councils (seven county councils and two unitary authorities) were postponed from May 2025 to 2026 Wikipedia. The affected councils were: Norfolk, Suffolk, Essex, Surrey, East Sussex, West Sussex, Hampshire (county councils), plus Thurrock and Isle of Wight (unitary authorities).

    2026 - Local Government Reorganisation
    29 council elections have been postponed from May 2026 as part of the ongoing local government reorganisation programme, though on 16 February 2026, the government withdrew its plans to delay elections after receiving legal advice that the move would be unlawful.
    The key precedent was GLC 1985. No doubt Thatcherites would see that as totally different, for reasons.

    Given that councillors are elected in May to set a budget that takes effect the following April, how much meaningful decision-making will happen in the meantime?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    That was the initial story. This is him saying it's now ok to have them. People will be cheering from the rafters. It'll probably boost turnout in those 30 council areas given the relief and excitement. It's a bit like when your cat goes missing and then a week later, just when you thought it was lost forever, it returns. It gets extra strokes and double portions for days afterwards.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,143
    edited February 16
    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
    Starmer is like Johnson in that his hubris leads him to make errors continually. If it wasn't Pincher that got Johnson then something else would have. If Mandelson didn't get Starmer it won't be long before a new incompetence comes along.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    wooliedyed said:

    County council predictions

    Essex Reform Gain
    East and West Sussex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Hampshire NOC

    Norfolk and Suffolk will also almost certainly be Reform gains, maybe even East Sussex too.

    West Sussex and Hampshire will be close between Tories, LDs and Reform for largest party
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,639
    Pro_Rata said:

    algarkirk said:

    The election U turn is an extraordinary piece of government incompetence on two levels. Changing its mind + legal amateurishness.

    If it was important to postpone, it was important to get the law right so as not to be open to challenge. The rest of us will have taken for granted that this was done, as Reform would have an interest in challenging any illegality.

    If it wasn't important to postpone - as clearly it wasn't as they are not planning an act of parliament to allow it - then it was a bad idea. It looks Trumpian.

    This government has tried everything except the only thing it was elected to do: to run the country very well following some years of mess, while explaining the plan and the timetable and the progress.

    I get the impression it has just gone through on the nod in previous years, with no challenge to a long standing practice.

    Is there anywhere that gives a full list out of postponed local elections back to 1979, from previous reading I believe they are very numerous.
    Local elections are entirely a creation of statute law. It's quite possible that stuff has happened like postponements without challenge in the past but it is vanishingly unlikely that this will have ever happened without an attempt to render it lawful. IANAE on electoral law but it seems obvious that once challenged the government lawyers decided that there was a gap in the legislation.

    The fact that the government has to obey its own laws is one of the treasures of our set up. It is not true everywhere. The fact that the government accepts the fact fairly gracefully is another.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    Foxy said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
    Starmer is like Johnson in that his hubris leads him to make errors continually. If it wasn't Pincher that got Johnson then something else would have. If Mandelson didn't get Starmer it won't be long before a new incompetence comes along.
    Fortunately Pincher floored Johnson. Mandelson unfortunately didn't fell Starmer, although it certainly should have done so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,783
    edited February 16
    More on the Telegraph story about the court records being deleted.

    https://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2026/news/journalists-voice-dismay-over-court-archive-deletion/

    "“The data Courtsdesk gathered was uncomfortable reading for the justice system. Millions of hearings without advance notice. Listings that were accurate on only a tiny fraction of sitting days. Courts routinely hear cases the media had no way of knowing about. That information did not damage open justice; it demonstrated where it was already failing."

    EDIT: the Courtdesk system was setup by an external, private company, because previous in house attempts at gathering the existing records together had all failed to result in anything. Perhaps the above is why - the wrong answers were found.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con after a defection from Reform
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    County council predictions

    Essex Reform Gain
    East and West Sussex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Hampshire NOC

    Norfolk and Suffolk will also almost certainly be Reform gains, maybe even East Sussex too.

    West Sussex and Hampshire will be close between Tories, LDs and Reform for largest party
    What are you basing 'almost certainly' on?
    We will see on May 8
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 507
    Mexicanpete said:

    Foxy said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
    Starmer is like Johnson in that his hubris leads him to make errors continually. If it wasn't Pincher that got Johnson then something else would have. If Mandelson didn't get Starmer it won't be long before a new incompetence comes along.
    Fortunately Pincher floored Johnson. Mandelson unfortunately didn't fell Starmer, although it certainly should have done so.
    Hubris is not a word I'd ever associate with Starmer
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    edited February 16
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con aftrr a defection from Reform
    Well something but again that was because of defection not election.

    It is possible of the English councils up in May the Tories could not win majority control of a single one outside London, indeed it may be that the Tories only win Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Barnet councils in this year's local elections. They certainly won't win the Welsh Senedd or Scottish Holyrood elections either and are likely to be behind Reform there as well.

    Which would say something about how relatively posh the Tories now are relative to 2019, most of those who voted for Boris then are now voting Reform
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con aftrr a defection from Reform
    Well something but again that was because of defection not election.

    It is possible of the English councils up in May the Tories could not win majority control of a single one outside London, indeed it may be that the Tories only win Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Barnet councils in this year's local elections.

    Which would say something about how relatively posh the Tories now are relative to 2019, most of those who voted for Boris then are now voting Reform
    Broxbourne will remain Con majority
    They have a reasonable chance of holding Fareham.
    We will see with the rest
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    County council predictions

    Essex Reform Gain
    East and West Sussex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Hampshire NOC

    Norfolk and Suffolk will also almost certainly be Reform gains, maybe even East Sussex too.

    West Sussex and Hampshire will be close between Tories, LDs and Reform for largest party
    What are you basing 'almost certainly' on?
    We will see on May 8
    Reform got above their UK voteshares in Norfolk and Suffolk in most constituencies there at the 2024 GE
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 86,397
    This makes it pretty clear how the Trump administration want to use AI.

    (Axios) Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is "close" to cutting business ties with Anthropic and designating the AI company a "supply chain risk" — meaning anyone who wants to do business with the U.S. military has to cut ties with the company, a senior Pentagon official told Axios.

    The senior official said: "It will be an enormous pain in the ass to disentangle, and we are going to make sure they pay a price for forcing our hand like this."
    Why it matters: That kind of penalty is usually reserved for foreign adversaries.

    Chief Pentagon spokesman Sean Parnell told Axios: "The Department of War's relationship with Anthropic is being reviewed. Our nation requires that our partners be willing to help our warfighters win in any fight. Ultimately, this is about our troops and the safety of the American people."

    The big picture: Anthropic's Claude is the only AI model currently available in the military's classified systems, and is the world leader for many business applications. Pentagon officials heartily praise Claude's capabilities.

    As a sign of how embedded the software already is within the military, Claude was used during the Maduro raid in January, as Axios reported on Friday.
    Breaking it down: Anthropic and the Pentagon have held months of contentious negotiations over the terms under which the military can use Claude.

    Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei takes these issues very seriously, but is a pragmatist.
    Anthropic is prepared to loosen its current terms of use, but wants to ensure its tools aren't used to spy on Americans en masse, or to develop weapons that fire with no human involvement.
    The Pentagon claims that's unduly restrictive,     and that there are all sorts of gray areas that would make it unworkable to operate on such terms. Pentagon officials are insisting in negotiations with Anthropic and three other big AI labs — OpenAI, Google and xAI — that the military be able to use their tools for "all lawful purposes."

    A source familiar with the dynamics said senior defense officials have been frustrated with Anthropic for some time, and embraced the opportunity to pick a public fight..
    https://x.com/TheValueist/status/2023401540124381323
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    Brixian59 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Foxy said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
    Starmer is like Johnson in that his hubris leads him to make errors continually. If it wasn't Pincher that got Johnson then something else would have. If Mandelson didn't get Starmer it won't be long before a new incompetence comes along.
    Fortunately Pincher floored Johnson. Mandelson unfortunately didn't fell Starmer, although it certainly should have done so.
    Hubris is not a word I'd ever associate with Starmer
    Not falling on his sword suggests perhaps it should be.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,085
    Brixian59 said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Foxy said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    williamglenn said:

    The headlines are all framed terribly for Starmer:

    Times: Starmer abandons plan to cancel council elections
    Telegraph: Starmer abandons plan to cancel local elections
    Guardian: Government abandons plans to cancel local elections in 30 council areas in May
    BBC: Government abandons plans to delay 30 council elections
    Sky: Starmer abandons plans to cancel 30 local council elections in May in another U-turn

    Only the Sky one is especially damning. The rest are factually accurate. I am not suggesting this is good news for Labour but neither is it your crash and burn analysis.
    Having the words "Starmer", "plan", "cancel" and "elections" in a sentence together isn't a good look for him.
    I don't for one moment suggest this looks anything other than chaotic but it isn't anything like as serious as the Mandelson scandal. For what it is worth I thought Starmer should have gone over Mandelson. Not because he made a flawed decision (it was always a gamble to find someone to deal with your President) but it blew up on his watch. That's why he should have gone. This doesn't even register compared to the manifold Johnson scandals.
    Starmer is like Johnson in that his hubris leads him to make errors continually. If it wasn't Pincher that got Johnson then something else would have. If Mandelson didn't get Starmer it won't be long before a new incompetence comes along.
    Fortunately Pincher floored Johnson. Mandelson unfortunately didn't fell Starmer, although it certainly should have done so.
    Hubris is not a word I'd ever associate with Starmer
    I'd say he has the opposite problem - a lack of political confidence.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con aftrr a defection from Reform
    Well something but again that was because of defection not election.

    It is possible of the English councils up in May the Tories could not win majority control of a single one outside London, indeed it may be that the Tories only win Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Barnet councils in this year's local elections.

    Which would say something about how relatively posh the Tories now are relative to 2019, most of those who voted for Boris then are now voting Reform
    Broxbourne will remain Con majority
    They have a reasonable chance of holding Fareham.
    We will see with the rest
    So Cruella will not be taking her voters with her to Reform?
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,996
    Twitter not working again, happened earlier today to.

    Oh those Russians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 134,071
    edited February 16
    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con aftrr a defection from Reform
    Well something but again that was because of defection not election.

    It is possible of the English councils up in May the Tories could not win majority control of a single one outside London, indeed it may be that the Tories only win Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Barnet councils in this year's local elections.

    Which would say something about how relatively posh the Tories now are relative to 2019, most of those who voted for Boris then are now voting Reform
    Broxbourne will remain Con majority
    They have a reasonable chance of holding Fareham.
    We will see with the rest
    The Tories have already seen 2 Broxbourne cllrs defect to Reform, if 1 more goes then if the Tories lost all their seats up in May in Broxbourne that would also go NOC.

    Braverman will be hoping her defection enables Reform to win most Fareham seats up in May and if the Tories lose 8 or more out of their 13 seats up they would lose control
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    County council predictions

    Essex Reform Gain
    East and West Sussex, Norfolk, Suffolk, Hampshire NOC

    Norfolk and Suffolk will also almost certainly be Reform gains, maybe even East Sussex too.

    West Sussex and Hampshire will be close between Tories, LDs and Reform for largest party
    What are you basing 'almost certainly' on?
    We will see on May 8
    Reform got above their UK voteshares in Norfolk and Suffolk in most constituencies there at the 2024 GE
    Yeah, so did the Conservatives.
    In Norfolk, Im basing NoC on Restore in Yarmouth, Greens/Labour in Norwich, LDs in North Norfolk and some Tory holds stopping a majority
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 37,474
    Taz said:

    Twitter not working again, happened earlier today to.

    Oh those Russians.

    Aren't they working hand in glove with Elon?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,462
    edited February 16
    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    wooliedyed said:

    HYUFD said:

    Surely even Starmer would realise Parliament is sovereign and if he really wanted he could use the Local Government Acts to make clear via statute law the election delays were needed for councils moving to unitaries to reorganise for that? As it is Reform are opposed to unitaries and want to keep county and district councils, so if they take control of most county and district councils up this year as they won most county councils up last year they could try and block the move to unitaries and Mayors completely, setting up a clash with the govenment on that,

    Kemi now facing potential Tory losses of Norfolk, Suffolk and East and West Sussex county councils as well as Essex and Hampshire county councils and failing to win the new Surrey unitaries and facing the Tories coming 4th in the Holyrood and Senedd elections could well be under severe pressure in May. As TSE suggests if the Tories are 3rd on NEV in May behind Labour a VONC by Tory MPs in Kemi's leadership could be asked for and she could be gone, replaced by Cleverly

    In 1993 the Tories amongst County Councils were left with just Buckinghamshire. Looks like they will be in the same boat in 2026. Remaining largest party in some is needed for them
    The Districts and London will be much more mixed
    Given all county councils will have held local elections by the end of the first week of May and the Tories won zero county councils last year, the Tories may do even worse than 1993 and control not a single county council by majority by the Spring.

    Even Bucks unitary council is now NOC after elections last year, even if the Tories won most seats
    Bucks is Majority Con aftrr a defection from Reform
    Well something but again that was because of defection not election.

    It is possible of the English councils up in May the Tories could not win majority control of a single one outside London, indeed it may be that the Tories only win Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster and Barnet councils in this year's local elections.

    Which would say something about how relatively posh the Tories now are relative to 2019, most of those who voted for Boris then are now voting Reform
    Broxbourne will remain Con majority
    They have a reasonable chance of holding Fareham.
    We will see with the rest
    The Tories have already seen 2 Broxbourne cllrs defect to Reform, if 1 more goes then if the Tories lost all their seats up in May in Broxbourne that would also go NOC.

    Braverman will be hoping her defection enables Reform to win most Fareham seats up in May and if the Tories lose 8 or more out of their 13 seats up they would lose control
    Both Reform defectors are facing reelection so Broxbourne is a Tory Hold
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,783
    Foxy said:

    On topic:

    Wouldn't it be better for Ministers to listen to legal advice before rather than after they act?

    Why change?
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