'The Mayor of Greater Manchester has launched a new campaign group calling on Downing Street to introduce wealth taxes, nationalise utility companies and end the two-child benefit cap.
He is expected to explicitly criticise Sir Keir at Labour’s annual party conference later this month, calling for a “reset” to help Labour win the next election.
Mr Burnham has also thrown his support behind Lucy Powell in Labour’s deputy leadership race in what has been interpreted as an attempt to secure an ally at the top of the party.'
Though again he needs to get back as an MP in a by election for a serious challenge
No mention of small boats and/or migrants?
No, he is clearly focusing on uniting the left behind him
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
The memory holing of the sassytempt is particularly odd
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
I suspect Badenoch and Cleverly will in due course
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election
Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
I guess he did have the huge advantage of losing and not becoming PM.
I wish Starmer had lost and not become PM. I never thought that Sunak wouldn’t have been the worst option, but Starmer has vastly surpassed him in utter incompetence. They both make Ed Davey seem the best option.
Which he is as I'm sure most on here would agree.
Let's be fair - no Conservative leader could have defended the awful Government of 2019-24, let alone post-2016. Defeat was arguably as inevitable as it had been in 1997 and in hindsight, the Conservatives probably lost the election as far back as March 2020 when lockdown was announced.
To be fair to the Conservatives, they were far from being the only western Government to be undermined and ultimately swept away by the Covid experience.
But under Johnson they were one of the dodgiest, and it wasn't just grifting for PPE contracts.
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
The6 don’t need to be overtaken on the left. With the Tories being Reform lite, Reform being anathema to non racists, the left being divided, as usual, and Labour being more incompetent than anyone could have imagined, the Lib Dems have the best opportunity of success for decades, if they can take it.
Except they can't, the LDs are now the party of middle class Remainers who are fiscally conservative on the whole, so they are not going to overtake Labour as the main party of the left. Though if the Tories were eventually taken over by Reform they could take some One Nation Tories and establish themselves as the clear party of the centre
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
The telegraph AND guardian are accurately reporting maneuvers against starmer
It’s not exactly surprising. Indeed it would be surprising if there were NOT plots. Starmer is a catastrophically bad prime minister with unprecedentedly bad polling. No other PM in history has achieved polling this negative after a year in office
Of course ambitious rivals are conspiring. It’s politics
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
I agree and hope Badenoch starts that process at the conference
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
The WSJ are just regurgitating whatever the Trump administration say. We expect that kind of baseless speculation from you, but not from them.
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham).
As we know, the "red" bloc Government led by Labour was re-elected on Monday evening and it seems Jonas Gahr Store is set to continue to run a minority Labour Government.
On the defeated "blue" side, the recrimiantions and resignations have begun. The long-serving (since 2001) Conservative leader Erna Solberg has finally announced she will step down as leader so her successor won't just be jumping one generation but three or four. Of more interest, the Liberals, who collapsed to three seats having failed to break the 4% threshold for levelling seats have blamed Progress party leader Sylvi Listhaug and her behaviour in the campaign for their defeat.
The truth is Labour and Progress dominate the new Storting with 100 of the 169 seats (60%) so you could argue there is a strong two-party system despite the fact the two parties between them only got 52% of the vote (that's PR for you). To compare, in the UK, Labour and the Conservatives, on 58% of the vote between them, won 84% of the 633 English, Scottish and Welsh seats (that's FPTP for you).
I wonder if Burnham and Khan regret standing again for their respective mayoralties in 2024. If they hadn't, they would have been unemployed for 1.5 years but could have presumably then found seats and been well placed now
Fox News: “Cory Booker and Alex Padilla…want to require CBP and ICE officers to have legible IDs, and they don’t want CBP or ICE officers covering their faces.
Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election
Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
I guess he did have the huge advantage of losing and not becoming PM.
I wish Starmer had lost and not become PM. I never thought that Sunak wouldn’t have been the worst option, but Starmer has vastly surpassed him in utter incompetence. They both make Ed Davey seem the best option.
Which he is as I'm sure most on here would agree.
Let's be fair - no Conservative leader could have defended the awful Government of 2019-24, let alone post-2016. Defeat was arguably as inevitable as it had been in 1997 and in hindsight, the Conservatives probably lost the election as far back as March 2020 when lockdown was announced.
To be fair to the Conservatives, they were far from being the only western Government to be undermined and ultimately swept away by the Covid experience.
But under Johnson they were one of the dodgiest, and it wasn't just grifting for PPE contracts.
Yes but I'm not sure how much difference that made in 2024. I agree on the venality but Governments which weren't were also punished for the Covid (and more than anything else the post-Covid inflationary) experience.
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology. And yet if you showed any of them this picture they would not even understand what you are referencing.
if you do not know what oWo is or uWu then stop posting about this shooter like Bryant Gumbel in 1994 trying to explain the world wide web on the Today Show
What America needs now is TV panels of 60 year olds arguing over whose language was the most inciting to violence when the shooter has never heard of Meet the Press and spends all day playing Helldivers 2, building video game maps, looking at hentai porn, and posting in discord.
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
The WSJ are just regurgitating whatever the Trump administration say. We expect that kind of baseless speculation from you, but not from them.
I'm entirely ignorant of the use and abuse of firearms, but aren't shell cases quite small? Is there really enough space for such prolixity? Maybe our suspect is not only an ace shot but, in his spare time, an accomplished miniaturist. In which case his high school art teacher will in the spotlight tomorrow.
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham).
A valiant attempt to downplay the crisis in labour and the moves by Burnham, which by the way affirms the nuance of his recent media appearances and his backing for Lucy Powell
Mind you you finally manage a post without mentioning Johnson nor blaming him for everything
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
The memory holing of the sassytempt is particularly odd
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
My view at the time - just on the basis of cui bono - was that it was staged. But that's Trump, isn't it? There's been no-one in my lifetime who I've so instinctively disbelieved.
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
The6 don’t need to be overtaken on the left. With the Tories being Reform lite, Reform being anathema to non racists, the left being divided, as usual, and Labour being more incompetent than anyone could have imagined, the Lib Dems have the best opportunity of success for decades, if they can take it.
Except they can't, the LDs are now the party of middle class Remainers who are fiscally conservative on the whole, so they are not going to overtake Labour as the main party of the left. Though if the Tories were eventually taken over by Reform they could take some One Nation Tories and establish themselves as the clear party of the centre
They could. Although I personally disagreed with everything she stood for, a reincarnation of Thatcher would destroy Reform, Labour and possibly even the Lib Dems. Who do you have with any charisma? You, DavidL and Big G would be better leaders than any of the current lot.
The telegraph AND guardian are accurately reporting maneuvers against starmer
It’s not exactly surprising. Indeed it would be surprising if there were NOT plots. Starmer is a catastrophically bad prime minister with unprecedentedly bad polling. No other PM in history has achieved polling this negative after a year in office
Of course ambitious rivals are conspiring. It’s politics
They are a wholly different analysis.
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham)*.
* Confession; I copied my own homework from earlier.
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
The thing which would help would be running government really well, with leadership that is competent, inspirational and telling a good story. I doubt if that is available.
Looking for a messiah in Burnham in nuts. If he had a seat he could win the leadership because the MPs and membership are so useless, but Burnham is of the faction who believe Labour's job is to dish cash out, not to run sound finance. That option is closed.
Coming up: Recriminations over Mandelson and others joining the queue to say they never approved at the time of appointmant; Trump;s visit; Powell winning the DL position in what is a really a referendum on Starmer; winter; budget, which cannot avoid being terrible for them; 2026 elections.
Apart from that and a black swan, all plain sailing.
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
The memory holing of the sassytempt is particularly odd
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
My view at the time - just on the basis of cui bono - was that it was staged. But that's Trump, isn't it? There's been no-one in my lifetime who I've so instinctively disbelieved.
If you really want to dive into the conspiracy rabbit hole, according to TwiX the same secret service guy was standing next to Trump and Kirk and giving hand signals to the shooters...
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham).
A valiant attempt to downplay the crisis in labour and the moves by Burnham, which by the way affirms the nuance of his recent media appearances and his backing for Lucy Powell
Mind you you finally manage a post without mentioning Johnson nor blaming him for everything
That's progress I suppose
Check out my post before this one. Full Johnson conspiracy, just as I like it.
* Sir Keir Starmer defended Lord Mandelson in the Commons despite the fact No 10 and the Foreign Office were already aware of emails between him and Jeffrey Epstein
* The foreign office was sent details of the cache of emails early on Tuesday and passed them on to No 10
* But Starmer still went out and defended Mandelson at PMQs. It took him two days to sack him
* Mandelson remains on the government payroll and could be in line for a substantial taxpayer-funded payout for wrongful dismissal
* There are concerns he will not 'go quietly' and his departure could end up in 'some disastrous HR process'
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
The WSJ are just regurgitating whatever the Trump administration say. We expect that kind of baseless speculation from you, but not from them.
I'm entirely ignorant of the use and abuse of firearms, but aren't shell cases quite small? Is there really enough space for such prolixity? Maybe our suspect is not only an ace shot but, in his spare time, an accomplished miniaturist. In which case his high school art teacher will in the spotlight tomorrow.
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology. And yet if you showed any of them this picture they would not even understand what you are referencing.
if you do not know what oWo is or uWu then stop posting about this shooter like Bryant Gumbel in 1994 trying to explain the world wide web on the Today Show
What America needs now is TV panels of 60 year olds arguing over whose language was the most inciting to violence when the shooter has never heard of Meet the Press and spends all day playing Helldivers 2, building video game maps, looking at hentai porn, and posting in discord.
He wrote “hey fascist! Catch!” on the ammo he used to kill Charlie Kirk, a man the antifa left has demonised as a fascist for ten years
* Sir Keir Starmer defended Lord Mandelson in the Commons despite the fact No 10 and the Foreign Office were already aware of emails between him and Jeffrey Epstein
* The foreign office was sent details of the cache of emails early on Tuesday and passed them on to No 10
* But Starmer still went out and defended Mandelson at PMQs. It took him two days to sack him
* Mandelson remains on the government payroll and could be in line for a substantial taxpayer-funded payout for wrongful dismissal
* There are concerns he will not 'go quietly' and his departure could end up in 'some disastrous HR process'
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
The memory holing of the sassytempt is particularly odd
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
My view at the time - just on the basis of cui bono - was that it was staged. But that's Trump, isn't it? There's been no-one in my lifetime who I've so instinctively disbelieved.
If you really want to dive into the conspiracy rabbit hole, according to TwiX the same secret service guy was standing next to Trump and Kirk and giving hand signals to the shooters...
I really don't want to. I naturally distrust conspiracy theories. But there's just so much about Trump which makes you assume the absolute worst of him.
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology. And yet if you showed any of them this picture they would not even understand what you are referencing.
if you do not know what oWo is or uWu then stop posting about this shooter like Bryant Gumbel in 1994 trying to explain the world wide web on the Today Show
What America needs now is TV panels of 60 year olds arguing over whose language was the most inciting to violence when the shooter has never heard of Meet the Press and spends all day playing Helldivers 2, building video game maps, looking at hentai porn, and posting in discord.
He wrote “hey fascist! Catch!” on the ammo he used to kill Charlie Kirk, a man the antifa left has demonised as a fascist for ten years
You are on the same form tonight as you were on the evening of Biden's catastrophic debate last year. Well done!
Come on - we had reports like this frequently during the Thatcher years, the Major years, the Blair years etc.
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
It's more than that this time
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology. And yet if you showed any of them this picture they would not even understand what you are referencing.
if you do not know what oWo is or uWu then stop posting about this shooter like Bryant Gumbel in 1994 trying to explain the world wide web on the Today Show
What America needs now is TV panels of 60 year olds arguing over whose language was the most inciting to violence when the shooter has never heard of Meet the Press and spends all day playing Helldivers 2, building video game maps, looking at hentai porn, and posting in discord.
He wrote “hey fascist! Catch!” on the ammo he used to kill Charlie Kirk, a man the antifa left has demonised as a fascist for ten years
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology.
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
The6 don’t need to be overtaken on the left. With the Tories being Reform lite, Reform being anathema to non racists, the left being divided, as usual, and Labour being more incompetent than anyone could have imagined, the Lib Dems have the best opportunity of success for decades, if they can take it.
Except they can't, the LDs are now the party of middle class Remainers who are fiscally conservative on the whole, so they are not going to overtake Labour as the main party of the left. Though if the Tories were eventually taken over by Reform they could take some One Nation Tories and establish themselves as the clear party of the centre
They could. Although I personally disagreed with everything she stood for, a reincarnation of Thatcher would destroy Reform, Labour and possibly even the Lib Dems. Who do you have with any charisma? You, DavidL and Big G would be better leaders than any of the current lot.
Jenrick has some, Cleverly a bit too. Reform have the advantage Farage has massive charisma, remove him though and their cupboard looks rather bare
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
The memory holing of the sassytempt is particularly odd
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
My view at the time - just on the basis of cui bono - was that it was staged. But that's Trump, isn't it? There's been no-one in my lifetime who I've so instinctively disbelieved.
I do wonder, sometimes
How could you stage something like that? The bullet nicking the ear?! It seems impossible
But the weird apathy and unwillingness of the GOP to TRULY investigate this is striking
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
Both are Tories enemies, most Tory voters hate Starmer even more than Farage
Come on - we had reports like this frequently during the Thatcher years, the Major years, the Blair years etc.
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
It's more than that this time
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
It is not good for Labour since the last relaunch, but has anyone ever seen you in the same room as Allister Heath?
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
Both are Tories enemies, most Tory voters hate Starmer even more than Farage
But that is the error I was warning you about. Your party considers Farage a friend and not a foe. Yet he plans to crush you.
Doesn't PB realise Burnham is a very popular mayor of three million people? (Indeed one opined that he assumed he was as popular as Khan, just the other day). I believe @cookie who is not a Labour supporter will confirm this. I mean. He wasn't over successful as a Minister under Brown. But then who was? And that was 15 years ago.
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
The6 don’t need to be overtaken on the left. With the Tories being Reform lite, Reform being anathema to non racists, the left being divided, as usual, and Labour being more incompetent than anyone could have imagined, the Lib Dems have the best opportunity of success for decades, if they can take it.
Except they can't, the LDs are now the party of middle class Remainers who are fiscally conservative on the whole, so they are not going to overtake Labour as the main party of the left. Though if the Tories were eventually taken over by Reform they could take some One Nation Tories and establish themselves as the clear party of the centre
They could. Although I personally disagreed with everything she stood for, a reincarnation of Thatcher would destroy Reform, Labour and possibly even the Lib Dems. Who do you have with any charisma? You, DavidL and Big G would be better leaders than any of the current lot.
Jenrick has some, Cleverly a bit too. Reform have the advantage Farage has massive charisma, remove him though and their cupboard looks rather bare
C’mon, @HYUFD! You must have someone in your party with more charisma than Farage. If not, you need to destroy him, not appease him. Hint. Jenrick and Cleverly don’t have charisma. They are just less charisma free than their alternatives. Only trying to help, although I don’t know why.
I wonder if Burnham and Khan regret standing again for their respective mayoralties in 2024. If they hadn't, they would have been unemployed for 1.5 years but could have presumably then found seats and been well placed now
When Khan announced in January 2022 he was going to run for a third term as London Mayor, it was, I suspect, on a belief at the time Labour were going to lose the next election (2023 or 2024) to Boris Johnson and be in opposition until 2028/29. That would enable Khan to serve a full third term and then go into Westminster and be in a senior position as part of the incoming Labour Government.
He did not reckon (as in truth none of us did) on the spectacular implosion of the Conservative Party from spring 2022 onwards. In January 2022, the Conservative still enjoyed a narrow lead over Labour (Redfield & Wilton had Con 41, Lab 37 on January 11th). By year end, Labour was 20 points or more ahead.
By the way, the 78% Con-Lab share from January 2022 compares with 34% in the current Find Out Now poll. That is quite remarkable (as the late David Coleman might have said).
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
Both are Tories enemies, most Tory voters hate Starmer even more than Farage
Come on - we had reports like this frequently during the Thatcher years, the Major years, the Blair years etc.
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
It's more than that this time
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
It is not good for Labour since the last relaunch, but has anyone ever seen you in the same room as Allister Heath?
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
@HYUFD, your party needs to realise that your most formidable enemies are Reform, not Labour, and aim your fire in their direction. Unless they do, they are extremely vulnerable.
Both are Tories enemies, most Tory voters hate Starmer even more than Farage
Point of order
I do not hate Starmer
I just do not agree with him
Big difference
"Hate" is a big and ugly word. Despise is neater. For the record I despise Farage.
Doesn't PB realise Burnham is a very popular mayor of three million people? (Indeed one opined that he assumed he was as popular as Khan, just the other day). I believe @cookie who is not a Labour supporter will confirm this. I mean. He wasn't over successful as a Minister under Brown. But then who was? And that was 15 years ago.
I know he is very successful Mayor for Manchester and a realistic problem for Starmer
Come on - we had reports like this frequently during the Thatcher years, the Major years, the Blair years etc.
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
It's more than that this time
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
It is not good for Labour since the last relaunch, but has anyone ever seen you in the same room as Allister Heath?
Who
The journalist responsible for half of the Telegraph's unhinged headlines. Allison Pearson contributes the rest.
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Starmer only got the gig because he wasn’t Corbyn. Question for you and all here. Name a Labour MP that you would rate. I can’t think of one. Can anybody?
Come on - we had reports like this frequently during the Thatcher years, the Major years, the Blair years etc.
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
It's more than that this time
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
It is not good for Labour since the last relaunch, but has anyone ever seen you in the same room as Allister Heath?
Who
The journalist responsible for half of the Telegraph's unhinged headlines. Allison Pearson contributes the rest.
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Jesus. You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left? The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
I am going by Burnham’s latest statements (see above). Wealth tax, nationalise utilities. Etc. Burnham is trying quite obviously to attack and undermine Starmer from the left
He was previously a centrist Blairite, I agree. But he’s changed (or so it appears)
Doesn't PB realise Burnham is a very popular mayor of three million people? (Indeed one opined that he assumed he was as popular as Khan, just the other day). I believe @cookie who is not a Labour supporter will confirm this. I mean. He wasn't over successful as a Minister under Brown. But then who was? And that was 15 years ago.
I know he is very successful Mayor for Manchester and a realistic problem for Starmer
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
AstraZeneca pauses £200m investment in Cambridge research site Decision means none of drugmaker’s much-trumpeted £650m UK investment package is currently proceeding
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
Followed by 100 tweets asking for a source. Which he does not provide. Grow up
Because you are famous for your provision of well-sourced, accurate information. As we have seen over the last few days...
I seem to be the only PBer who has actually watched the FBI/utah governor presser where they give the actual verified information
“Hey fascist catch” written on his ammo. Also an antifa chant. And so on
I do not believe a word that is being said until someone provides clear and comprehensive proof of the details of the alleged assasin
You are a sensible guy, Big_G.
Thank you but I am not prepared to speculate on something as serious as this or post something that could cause an issue for the site
That makes you sensible.
I also have avoided ascribing any motive to the shooter, for now. We know a bit more than we did this morning, but the information released is hardly comprehensive.
People are just interpreting it according to their biases - and not a few have quietly modified their interpretations once or twice, already.
I would be quite prepared to believe amongst the maelstrom of America, there are left-wing extremists with access to guns and no qualms about shooting people with whom they disagree. And I'd also be prepared to believe there are similar people for whom Charlie Kirk was not right wing enough, or the wrong sort of right wing. And I'd be quite prepared to believe the regime is prepares to stage violence for its own ends (we never did get to the bottom of the saasytempt last Autumn). I don't suppose we'll ever actually know with much certainty.
Given they've arrested the guy alive, unlike most such shooters, it's possible we'll find out eventually. I'm just not inclined to make political points based on something I really don't know for now.
What I can fairly safely say is that all the anti-trans posters making capital out of this yesterday ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
But that is also a bit hasty. Apparently one of the more obscure inscriptions on the ammo IS a transgender reference
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Jesus. You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left? The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
Burnham supports Burnham. Nobody else matters. If he managed to be PM he would be only marginally better than Starmer (not a high bar). Labour have destroyed themselves by being the vanilla party when voters are looking for taste.
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Jesus. You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left? The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
I am going by Burnham’s latest statements (see above). Wealth tax, nationalise utilities. Etc. Burnham is trying quite obviously to attack and undermine Starmer from the left
He was previously a centrist Blairite, I agree. But he’s changed (or so it appears)
His whole pitch is that we need a Labour government. And he's been an unashamedly Labour Mayor. Who keeps winning by margins and in places where the Labour Party don't usually. Several Tories could convincingly attack Starmer from the left
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Starmer only got the gig because he wasn’t Corbyn. Question for you and all here. Name a Labour MP that you would rate. I can’t think of one. Can anybody?
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Jesus. You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left? The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
I am going by Burnham’s latest statements (see above). Wealth tax, nationalise utilities. Etc. Burnham is trying quite obviously to attack and undermine Starmer from the left
He was previously a centrist Blairite, I agree. But he’s changed (or so it appears)
His whole pitch is that we need a Labour government. And he's been an unashamedly Labour Mayor. Who keeps winning by margins and in places where the Labour Party don't usually. Several Tories could convincingly attack Starmer from the left
Nonetheless it’s a surprisingly left wing angle that Burnham has taken
It is starting to feel, bizarrely, like the Labour Party is starting to move itself into a post-Starmer place.
I say bizarrely not because I think Starmer is doing a good job (he isn’t) but that the very idea that they are starting to talk about the leadership 15 months in from a landslide (if lopsided) election victory is just indicative of how badly Starmer has played his hand during the opening months of his premiership.
As much as I think Starmer has been very poor, I have a growing sense of unease that the Labour Party are about to do something very stupid. Something that won’t help them one jot, but will likely hole them below the waterline. Liz Truss all over again.
Starmer is the one that is holing Labour below the waterline. Unless they replace him soon, Labour will be the 1920s Liberals.
They won't be as no party looks like overtaking them on the left, it is the Tories at threat of losing their place as the main party of the right to Reform
If your team had anything about them they would move on from Rayner and Mandelson who they have cut off at the knees and who are both already toast, and start beating Farage with the morality of avoiding a barrow load of stamp duty. But they won't because they think he is their friend.
Farage is Reform and the Tories could easily start chipping away at Farage because of the historical (and now up-to-date stamp duty) baggage he carries. For example "I admire Vladimir Putin". Personally, I'd rather give the vile Epstein the benefit of the doubt than Putin.
Two problems with that very sensible analysis.
One is that there has always been a slice of the Conservative Party that would be rather have been Reform. Now that Reform are well ahead of the Conservatives, why should they attack Farage?
The other is that it's not been an easy time to be a Conservative. Not for a long time. Hitting Labour while Reform steal their lunch, afternoon tea and five course dinner is absolutely putting pleasure before business, but sometimes a bit of pleasure is what an organisation thinks it needs.
"Notices bulges, OWO whats this?" - Meme about furries/roleplaying; not political
"hey fascist! Catch! Up, right, down x3" - From Helldivers 2, satirical game, you nuke 'fascist' aliens even though you're a fascist yourself; the code launches a bomb
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left." The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
Doesn't PB realise Burnham is a very popular mayor of three million people? (Indeed one opined that he assumed he was as popular as Khan, just the other day). I believe @cookie who is not a Labour supporter will confirm this. I mean. He wasn't over successful as a Minister under Brown. But then who was? And that was 15 years ago.
I know he is very successful Mayor for Manchester and a realistic problem for Starmer
Unless and until Burnham wins a parliamentary seat again than Streeting or Cooper are Starmer's likely replacements, if he leaves No 10 before the next general election
Nah. Phillipson. Neither Cooper nor Streeting would get the nominations.
My dark afternoon thought was that Starmer stands aside, Corbyn announces he's rejoining, and ... 'hilarity ensues'.
Corbyn was a better Labour leader than Starmer has proven to be. Corbyn didn’t fatally destroy the Labour Party through utter incompetence, lack of personality and metropolitan hubris.
Corbyn lost 2 general elections, Starmer has won the only one he fought, so that is far too early to say.
Especially if Starmer gets LD and Green tactical votes as last year to defeat the Tories and Reform
Winning an election is pointless if you don’t know what to do with the win.
Looks like Starmer has lost the Labour right - Lord Petie Yum Yum - and the Labour left - with Burnham leading the charge
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
Jesus. You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left? The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
I am going by Burnham’s latest statements (see above). Wealth tax, nationalise utilities. Etc. Burnham is trying quite obviously to attack and undermine Starmer from the left
He was previously a centrist Blairite, I agree. But he’s changed (or so it appears)
His whole pitch is that we need a Labour government. And he's been an unashamedly Labour Mayor. Who keeps winning by margins and in places where the Labour Party don't usually. Several Tories could convincingly attack Starmer from the left
Nonetheless it’s a surprisingly left wing angle that Burnham has taken
Andrew Marr says he's soft left in this week's Newstatesman. And he is on the march.
These nuances of leftism can be difficult for the outside world to understand. Angels etc... LOL.
Let's just say Shabana is more Morgan McSweeney than Andy Burnham is.
"Notices bulges, OWO whats this?" - Meme about furries/roleplaying; not political
"hey fascist! Catch! Up, right, down x3" - From Helldivers 2, satirical game, you nuke 'fascist' aliens even though you're a fascist yourself; the code launches a bomb
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left." The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
"This is a debate conducted by ideologues throwing up chaff in support of their own prejudices."
In relation to the Lords debate on Assisted Dying.
It is a quite disgraceful statement, frankly. First, because speeches have been deliberately curtailed with Falconer trying to push it through as quickly as possible with little scrutiny. Second, because the Lords Committee and a number of institutions closely involved in this should the Bill passes have come out in detail with all the problems with the Bill, the safeguards that are missing and the ones that are needed.
Lord Barker, one of the Bill's supporters, argued in the Lords today that there should be assisted suicide because palliative care is too expensive and no government will properly fund it. Not so much an argument as the grim reality revealed by ideologues who seek to hide their own selfishness under the guise of "choice" and "autonomy".
As someone with Stage 4 cancer who one day - probably sooner than I would like - will likely need such care, if this Bill passes, I fear that I will be put in the "too expensive to care for pile" and pressured or neglected into death.
That genuine fear is not prejudice and a society that tries to pretend that this is autonomous choice rather than deliberate neglect of and contempt for the vulnerable is one that has chosen to go down a very dark road indeed.
"This is a debate conducted by ideologues throwing up chaff in support of their own prejudices."
In relation to the Lords debate on Assisted Dying.
It is a quite disgraceful statement, frankly. First, because speeches have been deliberately curtailed with Falconer trying to push it through as quickly as possible with little scrutiny. Second, because the Lords Committee and a number of institutions closely involved in this should the Bill passes have come out in detail with all the problems with the Bill, the safeguards that are missing and the ones that are needed.
Lord Barker, one of the Bill's supporters, argued in the Lords today that there should be assisted suicide because palliative care is too expensive and no government will properly fund it. Not so much an argument as the grim reality revealed by ideologues who seek to hide their own selfishness under the guise of "choice" and "autonomy".
As someone with Stage 4 cancer who one day - probably sooner than I would like - will likely need such care, if this Bill passes, I fear that I will be put in the "too expensive to care for pile" and pressured or neglected into death.
That genuine fear is not prejudice and a society that tries to pretend that this is autonomous choice rather than deliberate neglect of and contempt for the vulnerable is one that has chosen to go down a very dark road indeed.
According to Utah officials + police interviews with his family, Tyler Robinson hated Charlie Kirk because Kirk wasn't conservative enough. (Robinson reportedly admired Nick Fuentes). GOPer's now scrubbing X posts about dems faster than DOJ erases Trump name in Epstein files.
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left." The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
It's in the Guardian too, so I highly doubt that they've just made it up or posted this without being certain about the veracity.
My guess is that he rebelled against his right wing family as a teenager and then at college became radicalised. I wouldn't be surprised once the internet history has been examined if there isn't a big long list of hard left subreddits and he likely follows the big hard left Twitch streamers like Hasan who is a known terrorist sympathiser and has advocated for violence against political enemies many times before.
I really admire Spencer Cox, Republican Governor of Utah.
“To my young friends out there: you are inheriting a country where politics feels like rage. It feels like rage is the only option, but through those words, we have a reminder that we can choose a different path," Cox said. "Your generation has an opportunity to build a culture that is very different than what we are suffering through right now. Not by pretending differences don't matter, but by embracing our differences and having those hard conversations."
“The problem with political violence is it metastasizes, because we can always point the finger at the other side," the governor said, "And at some point we have to find an off ramp, or it's going to get much, much worse.”
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, a Democrat, who recently served with Cox in leadership of the National Governors Association said “I think he’s been brilliant and I’m not surprised for one second."
What a difference to Trump who is trying to provoke civil strife as an excuse to suspend elections.
It was a disastrous mix of U.S gun culture with online political radicalisation.
According to a Daiily Mail article which they've since removed, his father bought him a "build your own rifle" kit as a present when he was still a child.
He was training to be an electrician. Well known hotbed of left wing political indoctrination...
Give it up, even the guardian is accepting he's a hard leftist nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun. You're just embarrassing yourself now, I mean you're an instant expert on gaming having expressed precisely zero interest or knowledge on the subject ever.
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left." The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
It's in the Guardian too, so I highly doubt that they've just made it up or posted this without being certain about the veracity.
My guess is that he rebelled against his right wing family as a teenager and then at college became radicalised. I wouldn't be surprised once the internet history has been examined if there isn't a big long list of hard left subreddits and he likely follows the big hard left Twitch streamers like Hasan who is a known terrorist sympathiser and has advocated for violence against political enemies many times before.
Indeed
I’ve been to Utah multiple times (unlike, I’m guessing, most PBers) and I’ve gotten to know a lot of Mormons over the years (ditto)
This is a common pattern. The kids rebel - of course - against their Mormon parents and families and because Mormons are SO conservative the rebellions are likewise extreme, and they go radically Marxist or woke or whatever
The sad thing is that 90% of Mormons are brilliant people. They eat too much cake but they’re kind, generous, loving, hospitable. They’re proper Christians in their own weird way and you’re never going to get mugged or stabbed in a Mormon town
The sneering and mocking that they endure is quite horrible
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left." The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
It's in the Guardian too, so I highly doubt that they've just made it up or posted this without being certain about the veracity.
My guess is that he rebelled against his right wing family as a teenager and then at college became radicalised. I wouldn't be surprised once the internet history has been examined if there isn't a big long list of hard left subreddits and he likely follows the big hard left Twitch streamers like Hasan who is a known terrorist sympathiser and has advocated for violence against political enemies many times before.
Indeed
I’ve been to Utah multiple times (unlike, I’m guessing, most PBers) and I’ve gotten to know a lot of Mormons over the years (ditto)
This is a common pattern. The kids rebel - of course - against their Mormon parents and families and because Mormons are SO conservative the rebellions are likewise extreme, and they go radically Marxist or woke or whatever
The sad thing is that 90% of Mormons are brilliant people. They eat too much cake but they’re kind, generous, loving, hospitable. They’re proper Christians in their own weird way and you’re never going to get mugged or stabbed in a Mormon town
The sneering and mocking that they endure is quite horrible
Yes Mormons are generally hard working, family orientated, wealthier than average and often quite good looking too
Peerages: You cannot give up a peerage yourself. It is in the gift of the Monarch. So there’s no mechanism to do this.
Seat in the Lords: You can give this up. Means no speaking in the Chamber, no voting. This option is open to Mandelson. Lots of peers voluntarily retire. Means they keep the peerage / title but don’t go turn up and shape legislation in the Lords.
Labour whip: He doesn’t currently have it. Mandelson is on a leave of absence from the Lords for the Washington gig, so he’s not being whipped. It takes three months to apply to end the absence.
(NB: You still hold your seat even when absent.)
Being stripped of a peerage against your will: Incredibly rare. Probably would need an Act of Parliament. So pretty unlikely.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/keir-starmer-warned-time-running-out-to-repair-faltering-premiership?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
And this is not a partisan point. It’s like the GOP want to forget it as much as the Dems
I presumed that when Trump made it to power he would fire up the FBI and everyone and make this one of the big themes of his presidency. Who was the guy that tried to kill him? How do you explain all the errors?
And yet, not really. There’s been some noise but nowhere near what I expected. It is all deeply peculiar
However the depth of the meme-ing is, I confess, beyond me. It is so meta I don’t know if it is pro trans or anti trans or what. The WSJ believes it is pro trans and anti terfs but Lord knows
https://www.theverge.com/politics/777313/charlie-kirks-alleged-killer-scratched-bullets-with-a-helldivers-combo-and-a-furry-sex-meme
I would guess, FWIW, that most Americans who are aware of "Bella ciao" at all, are most likely to have come across it watching Money Heist.
The telegraph AND guardian are accurately reporting maneuvers against starmer
It’s not exactly surprising. Indeed it would be surprising if there were NOT plots. Starmer is a catastrophically bad prime minister with unprecedentedly bad polling. No other PM in history has achieved polling this negative after a year in office
Of course ambitious rivals are conspiring. It’s politics
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham).
As we know, the "red" bloc Government led by Labour was re-elected on Monday evening and it seems Jonas Gahr Store is set to continue to run a minority Labour Government.
On the defeated "blue" side, the recrimiantions and resignations have begun. The long-serving (since 2001) Conservative leader Erna Solberg has finally announced she will step down as leader so her successor won't just be jumping one generation but three or four. Of more interest, the Liberals, who collapsed to three seats having failed to break the 4% threshold for levelling seats have blamed Progress party leader Sylvi Listhaug and her behaviour in the campaign for their defeat.
The truth is Labour and Progress dominate the new Storting with 100 of the 169 seats (60%) so you could argue there is a strong two-party system despite the fact the two parties between them only got 52% of the vote (that's PR for you). To compare, in the UK, Labour and the Conservatives, on 58% of the vote between them, won 84% of the 633 English, Scottish and Welsh seats (that's FPTP for you).
Fox News: “Cory Booker and Alex Padilla…want to require CBP and ICE officers to have legible IDs, and they don’t want CBP or ICE officers covering their faces.
Trump: “Well, they wouldn’t be saying that if they didn’t hate our country.”
https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1966530905775685770
My feed is full of fellow middle aged people declaring with certainty they know the shooters ideology. And yet if you showed any of them this picture they would not even understand what you are referencing.
https://x.com/Timodc/status/1966553002480935106
if you do not know what oWo is or uWu then stop posting about this shooter like Bryant Gumbel in 1994 trying to explain the world wide web on the Today Show
What America needs now is TV panels of 60 year olds arguing over whose language was the most inciting to violence when the shooter has never heard of Meet the Press and spends all day playing Helldivers 2, building video game maps, looking at hentai porn, and posting in discord.
Mind you you finally manage a post without mentioning Johnson nor blaming him for everything
That's progress I suppose
But that's Trump, isn't it? There's been no-one in my lifetime who I've so instinctively disbelieved.
Retired general Herzi Halevi says ‘not once’ had legal advice constrained Israel’s military decisions in the strip
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/12/israeli-ex-commander-confirms-palestinian-casualties-are-more-than-200000
It's what parties do when they are in power and it's not going well - complain and grumble about the leader.
The Guardian says there is quite a bit of nervousness within the PLP, which has been voiced by (not unusually) Lewis. To be fair I don't disagree. The Guardian story is predicated by fact.
The Telegraph is speculating that Burnham is on manoeuvres to undermine Starmer ( he probably is). The Telegraph story is a summation intended to undermine Starmer (and Burnham)*.
* Confession; I copied my own homework from earlier.
Looking for a messiah in Burnham in nuts. If he had a seat he could win the leadership because the MPs and membership are so useless, but Burnham is of the faction who believe Labour's job is to dish cash out, not to run sound finance. That option is closed.
Coming up: Recriminations over Mandelson and others joining the queue to say they never approved at the time of appointmant; Trump;s visit; Powell winning the DL position in what is a really a referendum on Starmer; winter; budget, which cannot avoid being terrible for them; 2026 elections.
Apart from that and a black swan, all plain sailing.
Exclusive with
@patrickkmaguire
@katyballs
@oliver_wright
* Sir Keir Starmer defended Lord Mandelson in the Commons despite the fact No 10 and the Foreign Office were already aware of emails between him and Jeffrey Epstein
* The foreign office was sent details of the cache of emails early on Tuesday and passed them on to No 10
* But Starmer still went out and defended Mandelson at PMQs. It took him two days to sack him
* Mandelson remains on the government payroll and could be in line for a substantial taxpayer-funded payout for wrongful dismissal
* There are concerns he will not 'go quietly' and his departure could end up in 'some disastrous HR process'
The following gives the dimensions (in inches) of the cartridge size
EXC: Peter Mandelson has **no intention** of giving up his seat in the House of Lords despite growing calls.
Mandelson feels there’s no reason to take the step. He was removed as US ambassador by Starmer over support for Epstein.
I have listened to Burnham over the last few days and his endorsement of Lucy Powell
He is clearly out to cause problems for Starmer and labour are in turmoil with backbenchers openly criticising the leadership
Emily Thornberry clearly has not forgiven Starmer for passing over her, and now the irony that in he position as chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee she has issued a demand to Cooper for answers that can only cause more angst
QED
How could you stage something like that? The bullet nicking the ear?! It seems impossible
But the weird apathy and unwillingness of the GOP to TRULY investigate this is striking
We are already in the post truth world
Very short-sighted!
Being in the Lords is nothing about merit!
I believe @cookie who is not a Labour supporter will confirm this.
I mean. He wasn't over successful as a Minister under Brown. But then who was?
And that was 15 years ago.
He did not reckon (as in truth none of us did) on the spectacular implosion of the Conservative Party from spring 2022 onwards. In January 2022, the Conservative still enjoyed a narrow lead over Labour (Redfield & Wilton had Con 41, Lab 37 on January 11th). By year end, Labour was 20 points or more ahead.
By the way, the 78% Con-Lab share from January 2022 compares with 34% in the current Find Out Now poll. That is quite remarkable (as the late David Coleman might have said).
I do not hate Starmer
I just do not agree with him
Big difference
This is a dangerous place to be. Does he have any natural allies? As a charmless berk he doesn’t have many friends, that’s for sure
I bet Mandy is a lethal enemy. A natural plotter. He’d love to bring down Skyr
You actually think Burnham is of the Labour left?
The ignorance of what goes on north of Birmingham is astounding.
https://x.com/AzRagnor/status/1966554652557930729?t=PySDO0DSsi6B996eeyhibQ&s=19
He was previously a centrist Blairite, I agree. But he’s changed (or so it appears)
Gawd elp us. We’re a long way from Kansas
Decision means none of drugmaker’s much-trumpeted £650m UK investment package is currently proceeding
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/sep/12/astrazeneca-pauses-200m-investment-in-cambridge-research-site
Last one out please remember to turn the lights off...
And he's been an unashamedly Labour Mayor. Who keeps winning by margins and in places where the Labour Party don't usually.
Several Tories could convincingly attack Starmer from the left
One is that there has always been a slice of the Conservative Party that would be rather have been Reform. Now that Reform are well ahead of the Conservatives, why should they attack Farage?
The other is that it's not been an easy time to be a Conservative. Not for a long time. Hitting Labour while Reform steal their lunch, afternoon tea and five course dinner is absolutely putting pleasure before business, but sometimes a bit of pleasure is what an organisation thinks it needs.
yeesh so much disinfo out there about the gunman
"Notices bulges, OWO whats this?"
- Meme about furries/roleplaying; not political
"hey fascist! Catch! Up, right, down x3"
- From Helldivers 2, satirical game, you nuke 'fascist' aliens even though you're a fascist yourself; the code launches a bomb
https://bsky.app/profile/drewharwell.com/post/3lyo4avrwik2h
No-one remembers that nowadays, and maybe he's changed for the better.
Chants of "Christ is king" as huge crowds turn out to Charlie Kirk's memorial in London
https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/1966585378027999566
"In a phone interview Friday, one of Robinson's high school friends – who asked to remain anonymous – said that Robinson was "pretty left on everything" and was "the only member of his family that was, like, really leftist".
"The rest of his family was very hard Republican – like gun-loving, everything," the friend said. "He was really the only one that was on the left."
The friend said he was stunned when he saw the news on Friday that Robinson was the suspect in the Kirk case. "I knew he had strong political views," the friend remarked, "but I never thought it would even go near that far.""
So there it is.
As someone who is in the gamer sphere and has played a fair bit of Helldivers 2, there's one reference to it and the guy does strike me as a nutcase who shouldn't have been able to get a gun.
America needs to bring back loonie bins, if they had them the Ukrainian girl would definitely still be alive and chances are Charlie Kirk probably would be too, as would those kids who got murdered during catholic mass a few weeks ago, and the Minnesota state senator.
Stepping away from locking up crazy people and not restricting access to guns with proper background and mental health checks is a recipe for disaster. If they must keep the 2nd amendment then they really need to step up on keeping these crazy and dangerous people out of the community.
These nuances of leftism can be difficult for the outside world to understand. Angels etc... LOL.
Let's just say Shabana is more Morgan McSweeney than Andy Burnham is.
You can shut up now @Scott_xP
Still, Andy's Capp does seem to have been thrown into the ring.
"This is a debate conducted by ideologues throwing up chaff in support of their own prejudices."
In relation to the Lords debate on Assisted Dying.
It is a quite disgraceful statement, frankly. First, because speeches have been deliberately curtailed with Falconer trying to push it through as quickly as possible with little scrutiny. Second, because the Lords Committee and a number of institutions closely involved in this should the Bill passes have come out in detail with all the problems with the Bill, the safeguards that are missing and the ones that are needed.
Lord Barker, one of the Bill's supporters, argued in the Lords today that there should be assisted suicide because palliative care is too expensive and no government will properly fund it. Not so much an argument as the grim reality revealed by ideologues who seek to hide their own selfishness under the guise of "choice" and "autonomy".
As someone with Stage 4 cancer who one day - probably sooner than I would like - will likely need such care, if this Bill passes, I fear that I will be put in the "too expensive to care for pile" and pressured or neglected into death.
That genuine fear is not prejudice and a society that tries to pretend that this is autonomous choice rather than deliberate neglect of and contempt for the vulnerable is one that has chosen to go down a very dark road indeed.
My guess is that he rebelled against his right wing family as a teenager and then at college became radicalised. I wouldn't be surprised once the internet history has been examined if there isn't a big long list of hard left subreddits and he likely follows the big hard left Twitch streamers like Hasan who is a known terrorist sympathiser and has advocated for violence against political enemies many times before.
“To my young friends out there: you are inheriting a country where politics feels like rage. It feels like rage is the only option, but through those words, we have a reminder that we can choose a different path," Cox said. "Your generation has an opportunity to build a culture that is very different than what we are suffering through right now. Not by pretending differences don't matter, but by embracing our differences and having those hard conversations."
“The problem with political violence is it metastasizes, because we can always point the finger at the other side," the governor said, "And at some point we have to find an off ramp, or it's going to get much, much worse.”
New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy, a Democrat, who recently served with Cox in leadership of the National Governors Association said “I think he’s been brilliant and I’m not surprised for one second."
What a difference to Trump who is trying to provoke civil strife as an excuse to suspend elections.
@charliekirk11
Come on Scotland vote for independence. I know you can do it.
https://x.com/charliekirk11/status/512556824453599232
According to a Daiily Mail article which they've since removed, his father bought him a "build your own rifle" kit as a present when he was still a child.
He's been radicalised in *checks notes* an electrical college
I do not understand why people don't point and laugh at these idiots
https://bsky.app/profile/pibasedlifeform.bsky.social/post/3lyo64cbcc22k
Some of us are indeed pointing and laughing at them...
Even if there was an imminent by-election what seat could Labour actually be guaranteed to win given their current polling.
I just find him grating , he seems to think he’s the chosen one who will save Labour .
I’ve been to Utah multiple times (unlike, I’m guessing, most PBers) and I’ve gotten to know a lot of Mormons over the years (ditto)
This is a common pattern. The kids rebel - of course - against their Mormon parents and families and because Mormons are SO conservative the rebellions are likewise extreme, and they go radically Marxist or woke or whatever
The sad thing is that 90% of Mormons are brilliant people. They eat too much cake but they’re kind, generous, loving, hospitable. They’re proper Christians in their own weird way and you’re never going to get mugged or stabbed in a Mormon town
The sneering and mocking that they endure is quite horrible
Nigel Farage (net -31)
Ed Davey (net -6)
Keir Starmer (net -44)
Kemi Badenoch (net -35)
Other senior politicians
Andy Burnham (net +7)
Jeremy Corbyn (net -37)
Yvette Cooper (net -22)
Wes Streeting (net -19)
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52586-political-favourability-ratings-july-2025
But the gun culture is madness.
The details (… it’s quite knotty…)
Peerages: You cannot give up a peerage yourself. It is in the gift of the Monarch. So there’s no mechanism to do this.
Seat in the Lords: You can give this up. Means no speaking in the Chamber, no voting. This option is open to Mandelson. Lots of peers voluntarily retire. Means they keep the peerage / title but don’t go turn up and shape legislation in the Lords.
Labour whip: He doesn’t currently have it. Mandelson is on a leave of absence from the Lords for the Washington gig, so he’s not being whipped. It takes three months to apply to end the absence.
(NB: You still hold your seat even when absent.)
Being stripped of a peerage against your will: Incredibly rare. Probably would need an Act of Parliament. So pretty unlikely.
The woke radical leftist teachers in the electrical program at Dixie Technical College indoctrinated him. Time to move the goalposts again.
https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3lyo5oe2ncc2c