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Oh, Angie, don’t you weep – politicalbetting.com

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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,393
    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    Reform are needing to choose between trying to win by being populist sensible, and try to win by being populist head banging loonie.

    Today looks as if choice two has been made.

    The effect might to to ensure that the 'Anyone But Reform' movement is strengthened. But Reform can only win if AntiReform is split.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,813
    algarkirk said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Would she perhaps have a life after this disaster, at least for time, writing her memoirs and some bad fiction, doing a column for the Mirror, appearing on chat shows and guest appearances, all of which, SFAICS, makes a few bob if you have the right connections and agent.
    She's not off to the poor house and has plenty of connections. She will be fine.
    Any slight short term discomfort might enable some of her supporters in the party to recognise the impact of shit happening and how that shit hapoening might impact people who don't have connections and fallbacks and that perhaps they might reconsider supporting policies of such a kind.

    Daydreams innit
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,124

    My cell
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,318
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Sunak was better than Starmer too
    Surak was better than all of them.
  • kjh said:


    My cell

    Is that Oxford jail hotel?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,370
    malcolmg said:

    Shifting David Lammy looks like a mistake, and Yvette Cooper looks like a poor replacement. Cooper has done nothing at the Home Office. Shabana Mahmood as Justice Secretary is moved to Home Secretary just as she was taming the Sentencing Council, which may be a deserved promotion but looks ill-timed.

    Tinfoil hat time: was Mandelson, our ambassador to Washington and back in London, envious of Lammy's apparent friendship with the Vice President, and quite likely next President before their next election?

    Cooper has done nothing in every post she has held, absolutely amazing that she survives.
    Doing something means there's a good chance you will mess something up. I think a lot of ministers and shadow ministers are mostly focused on not doing things and just avoiding trouble, ministers with vision are rare.

    Which is a shame, because vision is meant to be one of the key things politicians provide, and the few ones with it are probably ineffective in seeking that vision, or their vision is crap.
  • kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    The consequences of being online too much, and getting unnecessarily extreme as a result.
    Partly that...

    ... But isn't Zia Yusuf everything Tommy and his Team despise?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,579
    edited September 5
    Foxy said:

    Worldwide things have got a lot better for most humans since the nineties. World hunger down 40%, childhood mortality down by 50% and people living in absolute poverty down by 60%.

    UK life expectancy is up 4 years from 2001 too, albeit the increase has stalled in recent years.

    In the UK they haven’t, hence Reform.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,124

    kjh said:


    My cell

    Is that Oxford jail hotel?
    No Beziers prison
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208
    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Sunak was better than Starmer too
    Surak was better than all of them.
    I think Sunak would have been a Major like PM if he had his turn in similar economic and social circumstances. Wouldn’t do anything radical but focussed on the bottom line (not Edwina’s) and general sound management but would likewise have been beset by internal party divisions.

    He chose to try as PM but he got a horrific set of circumstances so never had a chance with the time he had. Maybe if they had another three years he and Hunt could have done good things but again we will never know.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,133

    kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    The consequences of being online too much, and getting unnecessarily extreme as a result.
    Partly that...

    ... But isn't Zia Yusuf everything Tommy and his Team despise?
    Exactly. If Tommy and his mates had their way he’d be shipped out of the country .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
  • kle4 said:

    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    The consequences of being online too much, and getting unnecessarily extreme as a result.
    Partly that...

    ... But isn't Zia Yusuf everything Tommy and his Team despise?
    It's a bit Queers for Palestine.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,579
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Shifting David Lammy looks like a mistake, and Yvette Cooper looks like a poor replacement. Cooper has done nothing at the Home Office. Shabana Mahmood as Justice Secretary is moved to Home Secretary just as she was taming the Sentencing Council, which may be a deserved promotion but looks ill-timed.

    Tinfoil hat time: was Mandelson, our ambassador to Washington and back in London, envious of Lammy's apparent friendship with the Vice President, and quite likely next President before their next election?

    Cooper has done nothing in every post she has held, absolutely amazing that she survives.
    Doing something means there's a good chance you will mess something up. I think a lot of ministers and shadow ministers are mostly focused on not doing things and just avoiding trouble, ministers with vision are rare.

    Which is a shame, because vision is meant to be one of the key things politicians provide, and the few ones with it are probably ineffective in seeking that vision, or their vision is crap.
    Politicians vision is around this level.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    kinabalu said:

    Been out since late morning, have I missed anything?

    SKS has transformed the narrative to one of government renewal.
    Im just reading up on it now. 50% in the polls by midweek
    You jest but I think things do tick up from here. This for Starmer is the opposite of the Hartlepool blimp for Boris Johnson.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
  • boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
    Always worth having a look / think about who goes missing when such a scandal hits the news.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    I think it’s too early to write a definitive view on Starmer. But I will say that he and Sunak share an awful lot of similarities, in that they both have a similar way of not really seeming to have tremendous control over comms/messaging and lurching from relaunch to relaunch.

    Of course, Sunak has the excuse that he came into office at the fag end of a (then) 12 year old Tory government, battered by Brexit, Boris and the Truss debacle. Not quite sure what excuse Starmer has.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Been out since late morning, have I missed anything?

    SKS has transformed the narrative to one of government renewal.
    Im just reading up on it now. 50% in the polls by midweek
    You jest but I think things do tick up from here. This for Starmer is the opposite of the Hartlepool blimp for Boris Johnson.
    You saying it’s Starmer’s Goodyear?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Yes - and therefore a promising trajectory.
  • NEW THREAD

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,133
    edited September 5
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
    Do you really think the Tories wouldn’t have demanded she resign regardless ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,813
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Been out since late morning, have I missed anything?

    SKS has transformed the narrative to one of government renewal.
    Im just reading up on it now. 50% in the polls by midweek
    You jest but I think things do tick up from here. This for Starmer is the opposite of the Hartlepool blimp for Boris Johnson.
    Can't see it but we will find out soon enough
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Been out since late morning, have I missed anything?

    SKS has transformed the narrative to one of government renewal.
    Im just reading up on it now. 50% in the polls by midweek
    You jest but I think things do tick up from here. This for Starmer is the opposite of the Hartlepool blimp for Boris Johnson.
    You saying it’s Starmer’s Goodyear?
    Yes. I'm strangely energised by today (in a good way) and I sense he is too.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,976
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
    Just get a good accountant and make sure when you’re doing anything that could give rise to tax liabilities you have them triple check it for you. Honestly this is a cautionary tale to all cabinet ministers and high-profile politicians, having the benefit of advice you can rely on is worth every penny.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    I have very little time for any of the indignation surroundimg this story. The Telegraph is literally the butler to vast and properly organised tax evasion.
    Yes, pass the sickbag as far as they and ilk are concerned.
  • boulay said:

    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Sunak was better than Starmer too
    Surak was better than all of them.
    I think Sunak would have been a Major like PM if he had his turn in similar economic and social circumstances. Wouldn’t do anything radical but focussed on the bottom line (not Edwina’s) and general sound management but would likewise have been beset by internal party divisions.

    He chose to try as PM but he got a horrific set of circumstances so never had a chance with the time he had. Maybe if they had another three years he and Hunt could have done good things but again we will never know.
    Again, Major came in on the back of anti-poll tax riots, and later had saw Black Wednesday wipe out the government's entire economic policy. It was not clear sailing. Nor am I sure about the veneration of Hunt who, not unlike Osborne, seemed more concerned with salting the earth for Labour than growing the economy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,337
    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    He's been very much a bogeyman for the anti-Farage elements of the hard-Right. I suppose the idea is that reaching out to Tommy will placate that faction therefore make things easier for Nigel. But I doubt it will work. For those people a Muslim is a Muslim is a Muslim.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,208

    boulay said:

    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Confirmed: Douglas Alexander is the new Scotland Secretary.

    It is also an incredible comeback. He was in the Cabinet in the last Labour Government and was Scotland Sec under Tony Blair.

    Yes that's a real bridge back to those heady days. Oasis reunion and now this.
    Loved the 90s.
    It was a glorious time. We didn’t realise how unnaturally, and artificially, lucky a time it was. All the way up until 11 September 2001. What followed was 24 years (and counting) of disaster after disaster, financial crisis after financial crisis, and political and economic stagnation.

    In the mid to late 1990s we had low energy prices, a post Cold War peace dividend, golden demographics with a very low dependency ratio, affordable but buoyant housing market, naff but energetic popular culture, windfalls from bank demutualisations, a soaring stockmarket, and a string of very good summers peaking in 1995.

    The England cricket team was shit though.
    There have been worse decades, but much of the nineties felt stagnant, waiting for something to happen. Thatcherism was dead, but the Major years were a grey twilight. In large part that is what New Labour exploited, being young, fresh, and in full technicolour. I bought into it and for the first few years it worked.

    Since then we have been sold different snakeoils, from Brexit to Corbyn to Johnson. Now we await Farage's snakeoil. The nineties only look good in retrospect as a positive contrast to what came after. We never learn. Think things can't get worse? They always can.
    In retrospect, we haven’t had a prime minister as good as Major since, apart from pre Iraq Blair. Each PM since has been worse than their predecessor.
    Sunak was better than Truss, Starmer than Sunak.
    Sunak was better than Starmer too
    Surak was better than all of them.
    I think Sunak would have been a Major like PM if he had his turn in similar economic and social circumstances. Wouldn’t do anything radical but focussed on the bottom line (not Edwina’s) and general sound management but would likewise have been beset by internal party divisions.

    He chose to try as PM but he got a horrific set of circumstances so never had a chance with the time he had. Maybe if they had another three years he and Hunt could have done good things but again we will never know.
    Again, Major came in on the back of anti-poll tax riots, and later had saw Black Wednesday wipe out the government's entire economic policy. It was not clear sailing. Nor am I sure about the veneration of Hunt who, not unlike Osborne, seemed more concerned with salting the earth for Labour than growing the economy.
    I’m not claiming they were or would have been brilliant but they really did have the most appalling inbox to deal with. I think from a temperament and career background perspective he would be Major like.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,414
    kjh said:


    My cell

    I know people think prisons are too comfy but I didn't realise they get Wifi!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,370

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    Wasn't he a Remainer, so would they take him?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,941
    kjh said:


    My cell

    From the inside or the outside?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Official documents show she has a £650,000 mortgage on the seaside flat through NatWest.

    The scale of the loan will have left her with mortgage repayments as high as £4,000 a month while her salary against an income of £5,400 a month after tax. As deputy prime minister she was taking home £8,100.

    Following her resignation, she will have just £1,400 a month left over with two teenage children to look after, covering food and clothing bills, gas and electricity, holidays and sundry other costs.

    She also has a £40,000 tax bill to pay as well as a likely penalty of £12,000 plus interest on top of about £1,000 – a total bill of £53,000.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/05/angela-rayner-may-have-to-sell-hove-flat-after-losing-job/

    Shit happens
    Your comments of the last few days strongly indicated you'd be delighted to see Rayner humiliated and forced to resign. I'm not quite sure why though I suspect it's to do with what she said about Conservatives while in Opposition.

    All of that being said, none of this sits well with me.

    Since the Expenses Crisis, successive Governments have imposed levels of probity on Ministers and MPs which are draconian in extremis. As with other Prime Ministers, Starmer wants his Cabinet team to be seen to be beyond reproach when it comes to their personal financial affairs so while we can live with incompetence and stupidity, at least we don't have to live with corruption (apparently).

    Rayner has made mistakes and breached the MInisterial Code making her position untenable. Had I done the same, I imagine I'd be looking at having to repay the unpaid Stamp Duty and perhaps a penalty but I wouldn't lose my job over it and this is where I'm uncomfortable with all this and was when it was applied to Conservatives.

    We penalise mistakes rather than malevolence. Yes, let's go after Ministers who receive money from third party lobbying companies but this is Rayner's private domestic arrangements. I don't think she should be sacked for what she has done but the Ministerial Code dictates otherwise and them's the rules currently.
    For most politicians then most would be a bit fairer but Rayner set herself up as the scourge of those who had made errors whether innocent errors or egregious. If you decide to make yourself the witch finder General make sure you don’t do anything that looks like witchcraft.

    She was relentless and unsparing in her calls for resignations and fire aimed at people who structured theor finances tax efficiently. Live by the sword etc.
    But let's not pretend this was similar. She didn't structure things tax efficiently. Quite the opposite.
    That might be true but like most things now it’s the optics and she failed them. Hopefully it’s a lesson to other politicians to get their shit together or, when people make mistakes for the right reasons, don’t get on a soapbox and demand resignation.
    Ok germ of a point there. But this is the way to err if we must err - in favour of high standards and squeaky clean. What we don't want is politicians in opposition going easy on government ethics so as to create space for them to fall short in office in due course. That would foster laxity.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,217

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877

    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    Very nasty. True colours.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,941

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    He could say the same for every career Civil Servant. Is he claiming that she delivered no value in work carried out?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,780
    Oliver Johnson
    @BristOliver

    2-0 to the lettuce
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,133

    Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.

    The problem with Reform is it’s a one man band regardless of what Tory has beens defect to them . So if Farage got into any trouble they’d be up shxt creek .

    This of course relies on the UK media actually reporting that .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,041
    kjh said:

    kjh said:


    My cell

    Is that Oxford jail hotel?
    No Beziers prison
    Kill 'em all, let God decide.

    As a supporter of Tommy Robinson and the instigator of the massacre of Beziers might say.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,030

    Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.

    Yeah - although if they had their ducks in a row they could have got her last month, rather than going all in on the second home stuff that turned out to be wrong. Still the ball rebounded off their arse and into the net and a goal is a goal.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018

    Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    We the licence fee payers of the United Kingdom financed his transformation from no mark Sun hack to multi millionaire, and how did he repay us?
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 264


    Only fools and horses sums up this lot. Once they start laughing at you......
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,133
    Tres said:

    Telegraph all celebrating tonight. Pearson is beside herself.

    Not surprising as they have it seems knocked the one foe that Farage feared out of the game.

    Yeah - although if they had their ducks in a row they could have got her last month, rather than going all in on the second home stuff that turned out to be wrong. Still the ball rebounded off their arse and into the net and a goal is a goal.
    The DT and Daily Mail are a cancer on the UK . Even the Times seems to have taken a turn for the worse .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,018
    nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    They have crossed the Rubicon. They don't even pretend. They really don't give a f*** anymore.
  • nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    They have crossed the Rubicon. They don't even pretend. They really don't give a f*** anymore.
    Dreadful charlatans, it's bloody obvious what they are up to.

    End of the Trumpista's
  • nico67 said:

    Zia Yusuf lauding Tommy Robinson .

    Shameful.

    They have crossed the Rubicon. They don't even pretend. They really don't give a f*** anymore.
    Dreadful charlatans, it's bloody obvious what they are up to.

    End of the Trumpista's
    End of the pier I should say
  • Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    We the licence fee payers of the United Kingdom financed his transformation from no mark Sun hack to multi millionaire, and how did he repay us?
    A self serving shit of a man
  • Wow. I mean just fecking wow.

    Jeremy Clarkson
    @JeremyClarkson
    ·
    6h
    We paid for Angela Rayner’s education. We paid her wages when she worked for the local council. We paid her wages when she became an MP. We even paid the settlement that enabled her to buy a house. Tax payers have funded every aspect of her entire life.

    https://x.com/JeremyClarkson/status/1963934976417603877


    How long before he is a Reform candidate for Deepings in the Rotten Borough?

    ... And who's paid for you Clarkson? He really is repellent.
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