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Christening a new party – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,645
edited 6:51AM in General
Christening a new party – politicalbetting.com

Which name do Britons like best for the new Corbyn/Sultana party?The People's Party: 23%The Left / The Left Party: 12%The Collective: 5%Your Party: 3%Arise: 3%Don't know: 54%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Morning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    The Splinter Party ?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    edited 7:02AM
    Chat GPT refusing to count to a million, but for me the real story is how much it sounds like a boilerplate politician being interviewed

    https://x.com/dudespostingws/status/1960328814564716858?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,577
    ‘Jim’.

    And then they can infight over the backronym as well.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,807
    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,062

    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...

    Or… the harder element that’s always been a part of the electorate melts into a Lowe / Tommy type offering, giving the green light for yet more of the rump Tory / Labour vote to shift to Farage.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,846
    In the great Labour tradition of giving an issue a good talking to, Thangam Debonnaire (who is now a ‘cultural strategist’ whatever that is) is going to advise how to beat the Greens. Perhaps they need to ask the nonentity that ran and lost in Jezza’s constituency how to beat the thingummy party.

    https://x.com/labourlist/status/1960352223747031232?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,807
    moonshine said:

    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...

    Or… the harder element that’s always been a part of the electorate melts into a Lowe / Tommy type offering, giving the green light for yet more of the rump Tory / Labour vote to shift to Farage.
    Very possible, and what I would have expected. But - and its a big but - if the Lord of Ket throws his weight behind the far far right, then who knows where this goes.

    Remember - this has been a social media storm in a teacup. The UK is not up in arms about the forrin, demanding a general election and a sainthood both for Connoley and that nice girl with the axe. Flags are a tiny minority sport. But the undercurrent of flames have been fanned on social media towards Farage.

    If the fanning now changes direction towards a Powellite Send The Darkies Home position then we will test how shallow that Reform lead is.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895
    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    I expect Labour will slip into fourth place behind the Tories after the proper launch of the new party.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,106
    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Nigelb said:

    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...

    It's actually now far from absurd that China/Brazil/India evolves into a new dominant trade block almost independent of the west.

    I'd have predicted that the longstanding historical rivalry between China and India would make that almost impossible. Now I'm not so sure.

    This is a notable statistic I wouldn't have predicted, either (if it's true).

    ..UBS BB analysts reckon it is even possible that three-quarters of Brazilian exports to the US could be redirected, an estimate that suggests the potential hit to economic growth will only be a maximum 0.6%...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    I expect Labour will slip into fourth place behind the Tories after the proper launch of the new party.
    Really?! That would surprise me. But maybe you’re right

    It will be interesting to see if the Farage migration proposal affects the Reform polling. Perhaps voters will recoil from the ugly speech - deportation is not a nice word (even if all governments do it and boast about it)

    Or maybe he will gain more support as people see a vigorous leader talking plainly at last. Etc

    Quite an important moment in this Parliament
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,807
    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    Tories just about stay 4th in terms of seats on this one. But other polls drop them to 5th.

    They have utterly destroyed themselves over the last few weeks. And as the FukU/Advance//Lowe/Tommeh civil war gears up will the Tories be piloted even further to the lunatic fringe and lose even more support?
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 435
    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585

    moonshine said:

    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...

    Or… the harder element that’s always been a part of the electorate melts into a Lowe / Tommy type offering, giving the green light for yet more of the rump Tory / Labour vote to shift to Farage.
    Very possible, and what I would have expected. But - and its a big but - if the Lord of Ket throws his weight behind the far far right, then who knows where this goes.

    Remember - this has been a social media storm in a teacup. The UK is not up in arms about the forrin, demanding a general election and a sainthood both for Connoley and that nice girl with the axe. Flags are a tiny minority sport. But the undercurrent of flames have been fanned on social media towards Farage.

    If the fanning now changes direction towards a Powellite Send The Darkies Home position then we will test how shallow that Reform lead is.
    Immigration now regularly polls as the most important issue for British voters. Sorry
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547
    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    I expect Labour will slip into fourth place behind the Tories after the proper launch of the new party.
    I actually doubt that. Potential Fruit&Nut voters have probably already left.

    I think the Green vote will get a hammering.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895
    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    I kind of agree. They do seem a bit toppy

    However this is yougov. Probably the gold standard?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895

    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    I expect Labour will slip into fourth place behind the Tories after the proper launch of the new party.
    I actually doubt that. Potential Fruit&Nut voters have probably already left.

    I think the Green vote will get a hammering.
    Yes the Greens will get hammered , the Lib Dem’s will lose a little but I still expect Labour to lose a few percent more of their polling . I take this view from chatting with friends . The takeaway is Starmer has zero principles and stands for nothing and too busy chasing Reform voters and arselicking Trump . Corbyn at least has principles even if you disagree with him .
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,807
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...

    Or… the harder element that’s always been a part of the electorate melts into a Lowe / Tommy type offering, giving the green light for yet more of the rump Tory / Labour vote to shift to Farage.
    Very possible, and what I would have expected. But - and its a big but - if the Lord of Ket throws his weight behind the far far right, then who knows where this goes.

    Remember - this has been a social media storm in a teacup. The UK is not up in arms about the forrin, demanding a general election and a sainthood both for Connoley and that nice girl with the axe. Flags are a tiny minority sport. But the undercurrent of flames have been fanned on social media towards Farage.

    If the fanning now changes direction towards a Powellite Send The Darkies Home position then we will test how shallow that Reform lead is.
    Immigration now regularly polls as the most important issue for British voters. Sorry
    Why are you sorry - its wholly unsustainable in its current post Boris mess.

    My point is that the big push this summer has been to make racism acceptable, and now we have multiple competing platforms arguing for more and more deportations.

    Clearly the Farage platform has primacy at the moment. But if Elon starts ramping Habib and Low and Tommeh - and he is - then where does the mob opinion swing and what happens to the vote? Farage the traitor, refusing to listen to good honest British people who want to send TSE home for his crime against shoes.

    That's already something being shouted on X (not about TSE specifically...) and if Lord Ket carries on ramping then who knows where we go. The problem with political absolutism is that its never absolute enough. Which is why the far right and far left always fracture and fragment. I did wonder if Farage could pull it off this time. He still could, but if it fractures we saw all the signs of it yesterday.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    edited 7:21AM
    Leon said:

    moonshine said:

    An interesting question - JezWeCan will find an audience.

    The same on the far right. For all that RefUK is in the lead, the movement is fractured. We had the Big Speech yesterday and the Nigel couldn't help but attack Rupert Lowe. And up pops Ben Habib. Both are out there competing against the fukkers. Both have got the Lord Elon of Ket promoting them. Tommeh Two-Names as well.

    It's entirely possible that Reform's groundswell of support ebbs away into splinter groups. As the racist right get emboldened we get demands for ever more hardcore solutions - Lowe wants to deport legal migrants, and we know that Sunil and TSE are on the radar of some of the furthest reaches of these "patriots"

    If - and it is an IF - the far far right does fracture into Reform's vote, the beneficiaries will be the Tories and Labour. DYOR...

    Or… the harder element that’s always been a part of the electorate melts into a Lowe / Tommy type offering, giving the green light for yet more of the rump Tory / Labour vote to shift to Farage.
    Very possible, and what I would have expected. But - and its a big but - if the Lord of Ket throws his weight behind the far far right, then who knows where this goes.

    Remember - this has been a social media storm in a teacup. The UK is not up in arms about the forrin, demanding a general election and a sainthood both for Connoley and that nice girl with the axe. Flags are a tiny minority sport. But the undercurrent of flames have been fanned on social media towards Farage.

    If the fanning now changes direction towards a Powellite Send The Darkies Home position then we will test how shallow that Reform lead is.
    Immigration now regularly polls as the most important issue for British voters. Sorry
    Good morning

    It does for now, but the economy is about to become a huge issue with Reeves autumn startment and bonds yields rising, and one for our @Roger, Eric Lombard, France's finance minister waning France may need an IMF bailout

    And just as a reminder as Summer holidays are coming to an end, a week today PMQ' are back

    https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/we-may-be-headed-towards-an-imf-bailout-warns-french-minister-d2dt5r3fp
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Has the Trump administration ever even once acknowledged that Russia invaded Ukraine ?

    Baier: "Who is more responsible for keeping this war going, Russia or Ukraine?"

    Special Envoy Steve Witkoff: "These are two tough sides here. You heard the president say he's disappointed in Russia in some respects and he's also disappointed in the Ukrainians in some respects"

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1960482311700410775
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,205
    Thingummy Party (@Theuniondivvie) gets my vote
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 435
    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547

    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The Popular Progressive Democratic Marxist-Leninist People’s Revolutionary Front For The Liberation Of The Workers?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,381
    FPT:
    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,889

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,040
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,106
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Leon said:

    Tories very nearly in 4th there. Labour close to the teens. And this is yougov

    I expect Labour will slip into fourth place behind the Tories after the proper launch of the new party.
    I actually doubt that. Potential Fruit&Nut voters have probably already left.

    I think the Green vote will get a hammering.
    Yes the Greens will get hammered , the Lib Dem’s will lose a little but I still expect Labour to lose a few percent more of their polling . I take this view from chatting with friends . The takeaway is Starmer has zero principles and stands for nothing and too busy chasing Reform voters and arselicking Trump . Corbyn at least has principles even if you disagree with him .
    I agree, but I also think it will have an impact on Reform as well. Remember Reform does not just attract Tory voters, they attract Labour voters as well and this is another NOTA opportunity. I think the only party that will not be impacted are the Tories. I agree that the Greens will be the major losers if 'Your Party' actually does anything.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,381
    Nigelb said:

    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...

    There was a story at the weekend about South African women being recruited to work in Russia for other things, and ending up in drone factories.

    And we have India pivoting away from Russia re: oil.

    I have no idea at all where it is going.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,877
    I agree with the majority. The Don’t Know party sounds really great, and is likely to sweep up a lot of votes from the wavering or undecided.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,381
    edited 7:37AM
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    I've misquoted. It's 500k-600k OVER A PARLIAMENT - not per annum. Sorry.


    So that is around 300 per day as an average.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,804
    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    You can do anything with enough money. There's widebody a/c in storage all over the place after covid. They could just start buying high time A330s, military reg them and stand up a new squadron to operate them. Strip crew out of other parts of the RAF and ram them through a civvie A330 type conversion. It's all possible if they want it badly enough.

    Obviously voting Fukker is only for fat racist morons with dogs called 'Bronson' or similar but nitpicking over the practicalities of Farage's planned mass Hijrah is pointless. If the government wants to do it, it can.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,708
    There was some chatter last night about exactly how popular DementiaDon is with voters

    If only we had some Real World data...

    @thetnholler.bsky.social‬

    ⚡️Iowa Dems just broke the GOP senate supermajority by flipping a Republican seat on a special election in a district Trump won by 11 points in 2024.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3lxe5a5hps22f

    Oh
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    500k is in the middle of estimates for undocumented workers in the U.K.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,877

    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The Popular Progressive Democratic Marxist-Leninist People’s Revolutionary Front For The Liberation Of The Workers?
    But hasn't left wing politics largely abandoned actual workers now?
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 435

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
    Could that 16% for the Lib Dems be coming from the (approx) 100 seats where they have MPs or are hyper-active, and are still doing things the old-fashioned way with 24 hour leaflet drops? If so, then their base is probably secure-ish, but without any prospect of breaking out into new territory.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,538
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...

    It's actually now far from absurd that China/Brazil/India evolves into a new dominant trade block almost independent of the west.

    I'd have predicted that the longstanding historical rivalry between China and India would make that almost impossible. Now I'm not so sure.

    This is a notable statistic I wouldn't have predicted, either (if it's true).

    ..UBS BB analysts reckon it is even possible that three-quarters of Brazilian exports to the US could be redirected, an estimate that suggests the potential hit to economic growth will only be a maximum 0.6%...
    Today's the day when Trump's 50% tariffs on India for buying Russian oil comes into effect. There's no sign of India backing down and promising to stop buying Russian, so Trump's threat has failed. It's going to hit Indian exports, and possibly push India closer to China. But maybe we'll see a TACO later today or in a couple of days.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,448

    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The headline was presumably chosen to trigger the woke police.

    Republican, Progressive, with Marxist economics? What about the Liz Truss Party?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,889

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
    We’re really not very visible anywhere online. Bits and pieces at best. Not for want of trying.

    There’s plenty of more broadly “centrist” and liberal content of course, but not explicitly Lib Dem in the way that Green or Reform or Labour stuff exists.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572
    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...

    It's actually now far from absurd that China/Brazil/India evolves into a new dominant trade block almost independent of the west.

    I'd have predicted that the longstanding historical rivalry between China and India would make that almost impossible. Now I'm not so sure.

    This is a notable statistic I wouldn't have predicted, either (if it's true).

    ..UBS BB analysts reckon it is even possible that three-quarters of Brazilian exports to the US could be redirected, an estimate that suggests the potential hit to economic growth will only be a maximum 0.6%...
    Today's the day when Trump's 50% tariffs on India for buying Russian oil comes into effect. There's no sign of India backing down and promising to stop buying Russian, so Trump's threat has failed. It's going to hit Indian exports, and possibly push India closer to China. But maybe we'll see a TACO later today or in a couple of days.
    The US needs to halt holiday and work visa issuance for Indians to the US if they really want to force India to retreat and threaten to revoke existing long term visas. That is the issue that moves the needle for India, not trade.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,670

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
    Could that 16% for the Lib Dems be coming from the (approx) 100 seats where they have MPs or are hyper-active, and are still doing things the old-fashioned way with 24 hour leaflet drops? If so, then their base is probably secure-ish, but without any prospect of breaking out into new territory.
    They also churn out lots of stuff on FB
  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    edited 7:46AM
    This is from a pro govt account, so using these quotes as implied criticism of Reform, but I am of the opinion that it is the bogus asylum seekers who are to blame for any genuine refugees being stranded in dangerous places, not a foreign government who is refusing to accept the premise that 50,000 young men dossing in France must be taken in as if we owe them a favour.

    Cathy Newman, "How does this sound to someone from Afghanistan who is facing torture or even death?"

    Gawain Towler, member of Reform UK board, "We are not responsible for the whole world's problems.. I don't care about the whole world"


    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1960457847558561937?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,180
    The Borg? Jezbollah?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,792
    IanB2 said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
    Could that 16% for the Lib Dems be coming from the (approx) 100 seats where they have MPs or are hyper-active, and are still doing things the old-fashioned way with 24 hour leaflet drops? If so, then their base is probably secure-ish, but without any prospect of breaking out into new territory.
    They also churn out lots of stuff on FB
    And they aren't plainly batshit crazy.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,770
    I wonder which pb poster will be gung ho Farage-ICE and then discover a family member has been deported...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,889


    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The headline was presumably chosen to trigger the woke police.

    Republican, Progressive, with Marxist economics? What about the Liz Truss Party?
    It would be a lot easier if the electoral commission could just produce some standard party names and ask the parties to choose from the list.

    Something like:

    1. Putinist far left
    2. Non-putinist far left
    3. Eco left
    4. Soft left
    5. Centre left
    6. Liberal centre
    7. Centre right
    8. Traditionalist right
    9. Non putinist far right
    10. Putinist far right
    11. Regional Separatist [nation/region]
    12. Comedy
    13. Single issue party [issue]

    Jezza’s party would then have a simple choice to make: 1 or 2.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,409
    rkrkrk said:

    I wonder which pb poster will be gung ho Farage-ICE and then discover a family member has been deported...

    My new pro tip.

    If you are going to have an affair then have an affair with somebody of questionable immigration status because if you get her pregnant or threatens to tell your wife, report her to Farage’s stormtroopers.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572
    rkrkrk said:

    I wonder which pb poster will be gung ho Farage-ICE and then discover a family member has been deported...

    I'll have my mother in law's address ready to submit...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,282
    They need something short and snappy:

    The People's Democratic Socialist Workers' Collective Party of the Left (Marxist-Leninist)


    Alternative version of short and snappy: An angry Dachshund
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    We don’t need balaclava covered thugs marauding around . Although I expect Reform will be inundated with applications from the mobs attacking hotels . I expect you’ll get fast tracked if you were one of the 40% wifebeaters arrested as these types are the ones who can be extra mean to migrants . The current system of border force doing the removals could be expanded without the need for ICE style performative cruelty .
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,538
    MaxPB said:

    kamski said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Where this goes (or if it goes anywhere) will be a good test of the sustainability of Trump's haphazard tariff policies.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/27/trumps-tariffs-trade-war
    ... the Brics economies are now home to roughly 4.5 billion people – over 55% of the global population. The Brics grouping also accounts for an estimated 37.3% of global gross domestic product based on purchasing power parity.

    The key question is whether tariffs and political demands that accompany them will force a change to the bloc’s character – until now an ideologically incoherent group containing countries deeply hostile to America such as China and countries traditionally friendly to the US such as India and Brazil.

    Lula’s thinking seems to be evolving, finding himself riding a domestic wave of popular nationalism, fuelled by anger at Trump’s multiple interferences.

    Until recently, Lula had been hoping Brazil’s special brand of multi-alignment could fly under Trump’s radar, said Oliver Stuenkel, associate professor at the school of international relations in São Paulo. Moreover, Lula for all his leftwing politics had been reluctant to allow China to turn Brics into an explicitly anti-western alliance, opposing the group’s expansion to include countries such as Iran.

    But faced by Trump’s demands, Lula is having to recalibrate. “It has made Brazil more convinced of the need to diversify, to have Brics. It reinforces the need to find new friends and to have as many friends as possible,” Stuenkel said.

    “Politically, diplomatically, I think the Chinese are big winners of these tariffs,” said Matias Spektor, professor of politics and international relations at Fundação Getulio Vargas in Brazil.

    Lula has also taken up the cause of bypassing the dollar, a longstanding goal of China that in practice has achieved little in the past two decades. “Brazil cannot depend on the dollar and the Brics group needed to test whether it can have a currency for trade,” he said earlier this month.

    “I am not obliged to purchase dollars to trade with countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Chile, Sweden, the European Union, or China. We can use our own currencies. Why should I be tied to the dollar, a currency I do not control? It’s the United States that prints dollars,” Lula said...

    It's actually now far from absurd that China/Brazil/India evolves into a new dominant trade block almost independent of the west.

    I'd have predicted that the longstanding historical rivalry between China and India would make that almost impossible. Now I'm not so sure.

    This is a notable statistic I wouldn't have predicted, either (if it's true).

    ..UBS BB analysts reckon it is even possible that three-quarters of Brazilian exports to the US could be redirected, an estimate that suggests the potential hit to economic growth will only be a maximum 0.6%...
    Today's the day when Trump's 50% tariffs on India for buying Russian oil comes into effect. There's no sign of India backing down and promising to stop buying Russian, so Trump's threat has failed. It's going to hit Indian exports, and possibly push India closer to China. But maybe we'll see a TACO later today or in a couple of days.
    The US needs to halt holiday and work visa issuance for Indians to the US if they really want to force India to retreat and threaten to revoke existing long term visas. That is the issue that moves the needle for India, not trade.
    Well Lutnick's comments on H1-B visas are also major news in India today.

    The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung reported that Modi refused to take 4 calls from Trump in recent days. Modi was also annoyed by Trump claiming the credit for the ceasefire between India and Pakistan.

    India and China actually have a lot of shared interests, and the US policy of having India as a key part of containing China could possibly be falling apart right now. This isn't great news for the West generally.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    I think Dawn Butler is missing the point here, although I agree that putting betting shops full of FOBTs in poor areas is a problem that needs addressing.

    https://x.com/dawnbutlerbrent/status/1960392048533463212?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,983
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    You can do anything with enough money. There's widebody a/c in storage all over the place after covid. They could just start buying high time A330s, military reg them and stand up a new squadron to operate them. Strip crew out of other parts of the RAF and ram them through a civvie A330 type conversion. It's all possible if they want it badly enough.

    Obviously voting Fukker is only for fat racist morons with dogs called 'Bronson' or similar but nitpicking over the practicalities of Farage's planned mass Hijrah is pointless. If the government wants to do it, it can.
    You can pick up unwanted A380s for anything between USD20m to 70m and they are certified for up to 850 passengers. Someone recently set up a new transatlantic airline using a few of them and they didn’t even need to set it up fully as the planes are technically run by an airline from some other country where they provide the crew and certification etc so, in the big scheme of things, they could get over 1500 flown out a day on two flights per day or over 7,500 a week on a five day a week system.

    So as you say, the practicalities are not the problem but the optics of forcing people on a flight and possibly cable tying them to seats to avoid in flight risk etc. oh and also where are they going?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,807
    Dura_Ace said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    You can do anything with enough money. There's widebody a/c in storage all over the place after covid. They could just start buying high time A330s, military reg them and stand up a new squadron to operate them. Strip crew out of other parts of the RAF and ram them through a civvie A330 type conversion. It's all possible if they want it badly enough.

    Obviously voting Fukker is only for fat racist morons with dogs called 'Bronson' or similar but nitpicking over the practicalities of Farage's planned mass Hijrah is pointless. If the government wants to do it, it can.
    Yeah I was thinking along similar lines. Create Con Air UK - they aren't going to be borrowing planes off Tui, and if they did there would be people complaining that they were being taken "on holiday", getting "duty free" and other such "four start hotel" nonsense.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,214
    So, the don't know party it is. In fairness don't know always does pretty well in the polling so there is a clear market for it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,846
    AnneJGP said:

    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The Popular Progressive Democratic Marxist-Leninist People’s Revolutionary Front For The Liberation Of The Workers?
    But hasn't left wing politics largely abandoned actual workers now?
    Pretty sure younsters knocking their pan in with 2 jobs as barristas and waiters count as workers, even if they partake of the odd avocado.
    The traditional version of a worker (male, horny hands, tackety boots, coal dust) is much reduced or even non existent. Perhaps a useful exercise would be to find a definition of who is the modern working class?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    edited 7:58AM
    Scott_xP said:

    There was some chatter last night about exactly how popular DementiaDon is with voters

    If only we had some Real World data...

    @thetnholler.bsky.social‬

    ⚡️Iowa Dems just broke the GOP senate supermajority by flipping a Republican seat on a special election in a district Trump won by 11 points in 2024.

    https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3lxe5a5hps22f

    Oh

    Midterm special election on low turnout, so don't get too excited.

    The most significant thing is that the GOP loses its supermajority in the state chamber.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,067
    TimS said:


    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The headline was presumably chosen to trigger the woke police.

    Republican, Progressive, with Marxist economics? What about the Liz Truss Party?
    It would be a lot easier if the electoral commission could just produce some standard party names and ask the parties to choose from the list.

    Something like:

    1. Putinist far left
    2. Non-putinist far left
    3. Eco left
    4. Soft left
    5. Centre left
    6. Liberal centre
    7. Centre right
    8. Traditionalist right
    9. Non putinist far right
    10. Putinist far right
    11. Regional Separatist [nation/region]
    12. Comedy
    13. Single issue party [issue]

    Jezza’s party would then have a simple choice to make: 1 or 2.
    I misread the last option in the YouGov pole as Arse, which seems good enough.

    Fruit & Nut makes sense, but they could bugger it up by electing different leaders. Being more sensible, given Your Party is the working name, why not Our Party? Seems more inclusive.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,579
    Famous Austrians - Franz Ferdinand

    Most famous for being assassinated. He maybe had it coming; he was a prolific hunter who recorded 272,511 kills in his diaries
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,749

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Guten tag

    Have we done the yougov poll?

    NEW: Weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News

    Labour hits a new post-election low for YouGov

    RFM 28% (=)
    LAB 20% (-1)
    CON 17% (-1)
    LDEM 16% (+1)
    GRN 11% (+1)

    Those Lib Dem and Green figures are far too high for two parties which between them are getting about 1% of the media coverage of the Big THree. I live in England and I have seen more coverage of the SNP than I have of the Lib Dems (although that's probably because of Ms Sturgeon's literary endeavours.)
    Very large numbers of people now get their news on TikTok, Twatter, Farcebook etc.

    The hard left of the Labour vote is using the Greens as Spare Labour.
    You don’t find much Lib Dem content on TikTok or Twitter.
    They will be using other platforms. The segmentation of online environments continues. Your potential Lib Dem’s will probably have deleted the Twitter app.
    Could that 16% for the Lib Dems be coming from the (approx) 100 seats where they have MPs or are hyper-active, and are still doing things the old-fashioned way with 24 hour leaflet drops? If so, then their base is probably secure-ish, but without any prospect of breaking out into new territory.
    Very likely, but 100 seats still means 30 gains, and potentially overtaking the Conservatives in number of seats. If the Lib Dems do break out into the upper teens, then their extremely efficient vote might be diluted a bit, but not necessarily by much. All a long way from the times when 25% of the vote got the Alliance only 23 seats
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,381
    edited 8:03AM
    isam said:

    This is from a pro govt account, so using these quotes as implied criticism of Reform, but I am of the opinion that it is the bogus asylum seekers who are to blame for any genuine refugees being stranded in dangerous places, not a foreign government who is refusing to accept the premise that 50,000 young men dossing in France must be taken in as if we owe them a favour.

    Cathy Newman, "How does this sound to someone from Afghanistan who is facing torture or even death?"

    Gawain Towler, member of Reform UK board, "We are not responsible for the whole world's problems.. I don't care about the whole world"


    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1960457847558561937?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    How is Farrukh Younis "pro-Government"?

    He's a lifestyle and travel vlogger aiui.

    https://www.youtube.com/@implausibleblog/videos
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,695
    edited 8:04AM

    They need something short and snappy:

    The People's Democratic Socialist Workers' Collective Party of the Left (Marxist-Leninist)


    Alternative version of short and snappy: An angry Dachshund

    I like the idea that the new party might be 'Christened' - a generous ecumenical gesture from @TSE. But I don't suppose they'll be turning the other cheek too often and, of course, no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    This is something I have changed my mind on to a certain extent; in the past I’d agree that using non white actors in British period pieces was ‘PC gone max’, but now I think it would be completely wrong to deny a black actor the chance to be cast in one. A multi racial school doing a play about the 1966 World Cup Final would cast all kids as players, even though all 22 on the pitch were white, and a production of Shakespeare with an entirely non white cast would be just as legitimate as any other.

    Where it does seem provocative is casting title characters; you can’t have a white Mandela or black Henry VIII, although I’d probably be more ok with the latter


    BBC series ‘King and Conqueror’ branded ‘woke’ and ‘historically inaccurate’ for featuring black actors playing Anglo-Saxons.

    The series portrays the historical Battle of Hastings in 1066 between William, Duke of Normandy and King Harold Godwinson of England.


    https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1960333173587370244?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572
    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    We don’t need balaclava covered thugs marauding around . Although I expect Reform will be inundated with applications from the mobs attacking hotels . I expect you’ll get fast tracked if you were one of the 40% wifebeaters arrested as these types are the ones who can be extra mean to migrants . The current system of border force doing the removals could be expanded without the need for ICE style performative cruelty .
    But even with all that Trump is behind Obama's deportation rate, and those tactics are being used because the US has "sanctuary cities" which is a concept that doesn't exist here. Federal agents are unable to get local law enforcement to assist with operations in those cities which is why there is a lot more presence of federal agents than you see in ordinary raids.

    The other key difference is that the US is ruthless with deportation once illegals have been caught, something the UK seems unable or unwilling to do. Illegals need to be offered a choice, self deport to their home country or forced deportation to a third country. That's the choice being offered in the US and almost all are taking the self deportation offer as they would here.

    I think we need to stop giving a flying fuck about what the "international community" thinks about us and start acting in the national interest by deporting illegals and criminals. I really don't think it matters if the UN human rights commission says we're big old meanies for deporting illegals and criminals or if we work outside the internationally agreed framework to do so. If the UN wants to come here with an army to try and enforce their judgements then they are more than welcome to try.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,699
    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    It's not YOUR Party! It's MY Party! :lol:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,846

    They need something short and snappy:

    The People's Democratic Socialist Workers' Collective Party of the Left (Marxist-Leninist)


    Alternative version of short and snappy: An angry Dachshund

    I like the idea that the new party might be 'Christened' - a generous ecumenical gesture from @TSE. But I don't suppose they'll be turning the other cheek too often and, of course, no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
    Baptism might fit better with 'Real' Labour's methody roots.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
    What specifically is indefensible? Again, I'm asking because I'm interested to know why a lifelong conservative member wouldn't want to use all necessary force to remove illegals and criminals, what is it that the US is doing that you disagree with.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,448
    US drug giant to temporarily halt UK Mounjaro orders
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/temporarily-halt-uk-mounjaro-orders-5HjdBTp_2/

    Supplies to be resumed after the price has gone up!
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 435

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    In his day he was always a strong contender for the title of "Most Reactionary Home Secretary Since Lord Liverpool". No longer a contender nowadays, of course.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,381
    edited 8:09AM
    TimS said:


    nico67 said:

    kjh said:

    isam said:

    I’ve said before, I like ‘Your Party’.

    ‘The People’s Party’ sounds too Blairite; ‘The People’s Princess’ & ‘The People’s Vote’ were the kind of Blair/Campbell/Starmer propaganda that I’d like to think Jezza would have nothing to do with

    I also think 'Your Party' is a very good name, but we appear to be in a minority. It sounds like it belongs to the voters and doesn't necessarily have far left connotations like some of the others.
    I agree . The People’s party seems a bit meh and Your seems more likely to appeal to a broader range of voters .
    Surely any new self-respecting left-wing political party has to have a name which includes some combination of the following: Socialist, Peoples, Marxist, Progressive, Popular, Workers, Liberation, Leninist, and Collective. And of course there's always "Republican".
    The headline was presumably chosen to trigger the woke police.

    Republican, Progressive, with Marxist economics? What about the Liz Truss Party?
    It would be a lot easier if the electoral commission could just produce some standard party names and ask the parties to choose from the list.

    Something like:

    1. Putinist far left
    2. Non-putinist far left
    3. Eco left
    4. Soft left
    5. Centre left
    6. Liberal centre
    7. Centre right
    8. Traditionalist right
    9. Non putinist far right
    10. Putinist far right
    11. Regional Separatist [nation/region]
    12. Comedy
    13. Single issue party [issue]

    Jezza’s party would then have a simple choice to make: 1 or 2.
    Which one(s) do Commissar Philp and Plenipotentiary Jenrick join? :wink:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
    What specifically is indefensible? Again, I'm asking because I'm interested to know why a lifelong conservative member wouldn't want to use all necessary force to remove illegals and criminals, what is it that the US is doing that you disagree with.
    The violence and manner used is not acceptable
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    If Labour left the ECHR they’d be lucky to poll double digits.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,618
    edited 8:13AM
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    Putting aside what Trump is actually doing or not, that's an impossible sell in the UK. Trump has dreadful approval ratings here and the perception is he's locking up and deporting anyone he doesn't like the look of, including Americans. Then you've got the "homegrown" comments.

    Reform are getting a bit cocky. It's a very thin line between "stopping the boats" and "Trumpite dystopia". I guess that's what happens when you exist in a social media bubble, and why Farage is so essential - he has a keen understanding of where that line is.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,534

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
    Ultimately, you can only have one ultimate principle.

    If that principle becomes "remove everyone who I don't think belongs from the country", then you end up doing anything to achieve that. For example, giving the Taliban money to take people who have fled the Taliban.

    If your ultimate principle is something else, then immigration joins everything else in the pile of competing priorities. And whilst polling shows immigration as the top issue, that doesn't mean that the consequences dealing with it on a "no matter what" basis would be acceptable with the public.

    But while it's words, the consequences don't matter.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,956
    Nigelb said:

    Has the Trump administration ever even once acknowledged that Russia invaded Ukraine ?

    Baier: "Who is more responsible for keeping this war going, Russia or Ukraine?"

    Special Envoy Steve Witkoff: "These are two tough sides here. You heard the president say he's disappointed in Russia in some respects and he's also disappointed in the Ukrainians in some respects"

    https://x.com/BulwarkOnline/status/1960482311700410775

    "Who started this war" seems to have great relevance for Witkoff with Gaza but none for Ukraine.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    nico67 said:

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    If Labour left the ECHR they’d be lucky to poll double digits.
    And if they don't the same could happen anyway

    The demand is growing across labour as mps fear for their seats
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895

    nico67 said:

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    If Labour left the ECHR they’d be lucky to poll double digits.
    And if they don't the same could happen anyway

    The demand is growing across labour as mps fear for their seats
    I expect Labour will do something re judges interpretation of Article 8 . Leaving the ECHR is a red line for many Labour voters .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    If Labour left the ECHR they’d be lucky to poll double digits.
    And if they don't the same could happen anyway

    The demand is growing across labour as mps fear for their seats
    I expect Labour will do something re judges interpretation of Article 8 . Leaving the ECHR is a red line for many Labour voters .
    A response could be to declare an emergency and recluse from parts of the ECHR to deal with the immediate issue
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,856
    isam said:

    This is something I have changed my mind on to a certain extent; in the past I’d agree that using non white actors in British period pieces was ‘PC gone max’, but now I think it would be completely wrong to deny a black actor the chance to be cast in one. A multi racial school doing a play about the 1966 World Cup Final would cast all kids as players, even though all 22 on the pitch were white, and a production of Shakespeare with an entirely non white cast would be just as legitimate as any other.

    Where it does seem provocative is casting title characters; you can’t have a white Mandela or black Henry VIII, although I’d probably be more ok with the latter


    BBC series ‘King and Conqueror’ branded ‘woke’ and ‘historically inaccurate’ for featuring black actors playing Anglo-Saxons.

    The series portrays the historical Battle of Hastings in 1066 between William, Duke of Normandy and King Harold Godwinson of England.


    https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1960333173587370244?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It's nonsense. It's ahistorical bullshit. History is not there to provide work for actors but to accurately tell the story of the past, not revise it to conform to CurrentThink.

    It's also especially stupid because there's an easy work around, if you think it's vitally important that actors get work: make it animated. Have the actors of whatever colour voice the Anglo-Saxons without pretending the Jutes came from Jamaica. History gets portrayed accurately, and the actors get roles regardless of skin colour.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,572

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
    What specifically is indefensible? Again, I'm asking because I'm interested to know why a lifelong conservative member wouldn't want to use all necessary force to remove illegals and criminals, what is it that the US is doing that you disagree with.
    The violence and manner used is not acceptable
    Specific examples? To me they don't look all that different to how border agents do it here, they just have guns there because it's America. It's similarly raid like, they knock down doors, chase and restrain people trying to run and then load them into vans which take them to detention centres to await deportation. Again, if you have specific examples where you think there has been unacceptable violence in a US raid then it would be interesting to see where you draw the line.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,618
    edited 8:21AM
    nico67 said:

    Jack Straw is the latest labour voice to want to leave the ECHR

    If Labour left the ECHR they’d be lucky to poll double digits.
    I disagree. As long as they came up with a just and assertive alternative I think most current Labour voters would be happy with it - "direct entry of 30,000 pre-approved asylum seekers per year from *list of nations*, small boats = automatic disqualification". I don't see how anyone except people on the extreme left could disagree with that.

    Much better would be to actually reform the thing to reflect 21st century reality. As one of the main original architects we just need to get on with it.

    (I do note that the ECHR has 2:1 support across the electorate, so it would have to be handled carefully).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    Graz is very charming

    I have to say, possibly nicer than Wick
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,656

    isam said:

    This is something I have changed my mind on to a certain extent; in the past I’d agree that using non white actors in British period pieces was ‘PC gone max’, but now I think it would be completely wrong to deny a black actor the chance to be cast in one. A multi racial school doing a play about the 1966 World Cup Final would cast all kids as players, even though all 22 on the pitch were white, and a production of Shakespeare with an entirely non white cast would be just as legitimate as any other.

    Where it does seem provocative is casting title characters; you can’t have a white Mandela or black Henry VIII, although I’d probably be more ok with the latter


    BBC series ‘King and Conqueror’ branded ‘woke’ and ‘historically inaccurate’ for featuring black actors playing Anglo-Saxons.

    The series portrays the historical Battle of Hastings in 1066 between William, Duke of Normandy and King Harold Godwinson of England.


    https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1960333173587370244?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It's nonsense. It's ahistorical bullshit. History is not there to provide work for actors but to accurately tell the story of the past, not revise it to conform to CurrentThink.

    It's also especially stupid because there's an easy work around, if you think it's vitally important that actors get work: make it animated. Have the actors of whatever colour voice the Anglo-Saxons without pretending the Jutes came from Jamaica. History gets portrayed accurately, and the actors get roles regardless of skin colour.
    But they're speaking modern English; not the very different languages that the Anglo-Saxons and Jutes spoke! What ahistorical nonsense!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,497
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    FPT:

    Dura_Ace said:

    And "5 flights a day" which would all have to be military because airlines / lease companies can't do ut.

    We got civil operators to fly into Basra, Baghdad and Mosul on behalf of the UK government during the height of festivities there when there were SAMs and drones flying around. Shonky African operator + Russian crew + lots of money = nobody gives a fuck.

    It's a lot simpler to do it with military aircraft and crews because they can be more easily coerced but the civil option isn't impossible even at the 5 flights/day scale.
    Where does that sit on capacity?

    Mr Farage doubled down on 500k-600k per annum deportations.

    Is that doable on 5 flights a day, presumably on aircraft up to the size of a Globemaster or a Voyager, bearing in mind security personnel, load factor etc ?
    500k a day is 1300 people a day so minimum 6 flights and probably more if you have any unwilling travellers...

    And I don't see how the logistics works.

    Also we don't exactly have 500k people arriving by boat so exactly who else is he planning to remove from the country...
    Apparently they will be rounded up like in the USA with an ICE style unit .
    I really do not see this happening

    Stop the boats absolutely, but a US style purge is not acceptable
    So how do you remove illegal immigrants who have melted into the ether if not with border force raids. They already happen fairly regularly at businesses suspected of using illegal labour, are you suggesting that we shouldn't be doing these either?

    Weak willed liberals and their unending empathy for criminals and illegal immigrants are more dangerous for this country than the criminals and illegals.
    I am not a weak willed liberal but what is going on in the US is unacceptable

    By all means raid businesses suspected of employing illegal immigrants and I have no problem with everyone having a mandatory ID card
    Can you tell us in detail exactly what's happening in the US that you wouldn't want to bring to the UK. As I see it they're using the same tactics as here, just more aggressively than we currently do and they're enforcing deportation rather than doing a catch and release as the UK does.

    I think you've been watching too much nonsense on the news about the "horrors" of the US deportation programme when the reality is that even now Trump is still behind the deportation rate of Obama.
    You can attempt to excuse Trump and Farage deportation methods as much as you want but I will not attempt to defend the indefensible
    What specifically is indefensible? Again, I'm asking because I'm interested to know why a lifelong conservative member wouldn't want to use all necessary force to remove illegals and criminals, what is it that the US is doing that you disagree with.
    The violence and manner used is not acceptable
    Specific examples? To me they don't look all that different to how border agents do it here, they just have guns there because it's America. It's similarly raid like, they knock down doors, chase and restrain people trying to run and then load them into vans which take them to detention centres to await deportation. Again, if you have specific examples where you think there has been unacceptable violence in a US raid then it would be interesting to see where you draw the line.
    https://youtu.be/L-kx9AbH6Wk?si=wFyEGm8njzMA45zM
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