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Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,604
edited August 1 in General
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be – politicalbetting.com

Terrific piece. Reminds me of this piece of YouGov polling: we all think the past was better, we just can't agree on when https://t.co/m6AMEzfjMV pic.twitter.com/7kpOUuJVXV

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,071
    Blogging is going to be light over the weekend as I am going to be watching Oasis this weekend.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,024
    The 70s really were shite, weren't they?
  • novanova Posts: 889
    "...we all think the past was better, we just can't agree on when"

    Clearly we all can agree.

    It was apparently when we were young and had few responsibilities.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,314
    It's a pretty straight line, isn't it?

    Everyone agrees that society was best when they personally were late teens/early 20s. Which is why nostalgia politics is so potent, but also why it doesn't work.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,401
    @kaitlancollins

    Confirmed that Ghislaine Maxwell has been moved to a federal prison in Texas.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,350
    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    The Treasury attempted to intervene in this Supreme Court case amid concerns over the possible impact it could have on the wider car financing sector.

    The government has said that while it wanted to make sure customers get redress, it also wanted the motor sector to be able to continue "supporting millions of motorists to own vehicles".

    And it has expressed concerns that the size of the compensation bill for lenders could undermine the competitiveness of UK banks.

    But the Supreme Court did not grant the Treasury’s application to intervene - a decision the government said it respected.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cqjy087n9j2t
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Supreme Court President Lord Reed starts by explaining why the court is passing its ruling at 16:35 BST on a Friday afternoon.

    This has been advised by the Financial Conduct Authority that the outcome may “affect the price of securities in the car price market," Lord Reed says.

    He adds: "The markets will need time to digest and consider its implications.”
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,071
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Supreme Court President Lord Reed starts by explaining why the court is passing its ruling at 16:35 BST on a Friday afternoon.

    This has been advised by the Financial Conduct Authority that the outcome may “affect the price of securities in the car price market," Lord Reed says.

    He adds: "The markets will need time to digest and consider its implications.”

    I am so glad my work phone is 200 miles away.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Delivering the Supreme Court's ruling, Lord Reed says the court allows appeals brought by the finance companies.

    But, Lord Reed says the court upholds Mr Johnson's claim "that the relationship between him and the finance company was unfair".

    "We award him the amount of commission plus interest," Lord Reed says before adding that "other customers claims are rejected".
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,532
    edited August 1
    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and to a certain extent I think they're right.

    Those were two particularly hopeful periods.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,983
    edited August 1
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and in a certain way I think they're right. Those were two hopeful periods.
    I'm 70. The best time to be alive is now. The best time I had was in the 80s (my 30s), not because the 80s were anything special, but because I was having a whale of a time. The best music was the 60s and early 70s ruined by keg beer. Who can forget (much as I would like to) Watneys Red Barrel and Double Diamond.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,403
    Looks like the banks are mostly off the hook. I never understood the original judgement though, it seemed as though the court was saying the bank had to refund almost the entire cost of the finance deal to the customer despite the customer having had a car for the length of the deal. This is probably the correct decision in the end and we won't get 5 years of PPI style adverts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    MaxPB said:

    Looks like the banks are mostly off the hook. I never understood the original judgement though, it seemed as though the court was saying the bank had to refund almost the entire cost of the finance deal to the customer despite the customer having had a car for the length of the deal. This is probably the correct decision in the end and we won't get 5 years of PPI style adverts.

    Spare a thought at this tough time for all the lawyers who specialise in this stuff.....we now will hold a moment of reflection.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    kjh said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and in a certain way I think they're right. Those were two hopeful periods.
    I'm 70. The best time to be alive is now. The best time I had was in the 80s (my 30s), not because the 80s were anything special, but because I was having a whale of a time. The best music was the 60s and early 70s ruined by keg beer. Who can forget (much as I would like to) Watneys Red Barrel and Double Diamond.
    A substantial minority of all ages thinks the best time is now. It doesn't fit with the broken Britain being pushed by the Faragists.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and in a certain way I think they're right. Those were two hopeful periods.
    I'm 70. The best time to be alive is now. The best time I had was in the 80s (my 30s), not because the 80s were anything special, but because I was having a whale of a time. The best music was the 60s and early 70s ruined by keg beer. Who can forget (much as I would like to) Watneys Red Barrel and Double Diamond.
    A substantial minority of all ages thinks the best time is now. It doesn't fit with the broken Britain being pushed by the Faragists.
    Less than 1 in 10 is not what I call a substantial minority.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,000
    Nigel Farage has joined the chorus of opposition to the harmonisation of Betting Duty and Online Gaming Duty.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/britain/racing-tax/i-will-certainly-be-fighting-it-reform-leader-nigel-farage-voices-opposition-to-governments-racing-tax-proposals-aBwcY0A2smTM/

    No real surprise here - I thought the most cogent opposing voice was that of Richard Hoiles who tried to divorce betting on the horses and dogs from games of chance.

    The proposal would raise general betting duty to 21% and racing has come out with all sorts of projections of doom and gloom (some of which might be a bit overdone in my view). It's suggested tax harmonisation would take £66 million out of the industry in the first year along with 2,750 jobs.

    I'm struggling a little with the "how" of all this - the theory is the bookies would cut back on their interest in the sport if they have to provide so much tax to the Government and that would ripple through the industry and affect all aspects but I don't know if the Government proposal extends to Pool Betting Duty which covers bets struck in shops on other sports such as football, cricket and politics.

    The other side of it is, as on-course bookmakers aren't involved or affected, it might strengthen that market.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Its a massively flawed question, because we don't have god eyes view to fully experience all the different periods in time.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,895
    MaxPB said:

    Looks like the banks are mostly off the hook. I never understood the original judgement though, it seemed as though the court was saying the bank had to refund almost the entire cost of the finance deal to the customer despite the customer having had a car for the length of the deal. This is probably the correct decision in the end and we won't get 5 years of PPI style adverts.

    Surely just the "excessive" interest would have been refunded ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,381
    TOPPING said:

    bondegezou said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    bondegezou said:

    The other week, I did not have my phone snatched by a balaclava-clad cyclist... but I almost did. I was walking to the tube station on my morning commute and this cyclist swooped down and went for my phone. But, to be frank, he was pretty incompetent at it and failed to make off with said phone. He cycled away disconsolately.

    I was surprised, took me a few seconds to even work out what had happened. It's never happened to me before and north Camden is generally an idyllic, crime-free land. I didn't think much of it, but a friend later said I should report it. I was sceptical there was any point, but I found the online police reporting system and filled in the form. A policeman rang me up the same day to ask lots of questions. I couldn't tell him much and he was honest that there wasn't much they could do about this particular attempted crime, but he was keen to record what I could tell him and was clear that they would use this as a data point. It was a helpful and prompt response for what seemed to me a minor matter.

    So, that's my anecdote, my lived experience. The police do care, even about the petty stuff. At least this one time.

    This is what happened to me, twice, the first one missed the phone and nearly got run over by a truck - then fled on his bike. The 2nd did it with supreme skill in moments, just whizzed past and grabbed it one handed

    If I had caught either of them I would have tried to beat them to near-death (they were both scrawny lads, I am pretty sure I would have won despite my advanced years). I am sure plenty of able bodied males, when robbed, get that same surge of crazy, red-mist testosterone

    So these thieves are risking it when they rob adult men
    Your latter point is why women are more commonly targeted for phone theft than men. It's also why so many people on pb question whether it's real or not.
    A friend of mine had his phone grabbed from his hand, near King's Cross Station about 3 years ago. He tried to hold onto it, but in the tussle was thrown off balance and fell. As a result he fractured his shoulder, and had to be off work for over six months and even now has impaired movement of that arm. This has been life changing for a young surgeon.

    It was a pretty crappy 4 year old phone, but thieves don't see that it is worthless until after they have it in their hands.

    This sort of crime has increased, replacing a lot of other crimes that have dramatically dropped (nicking cars and burglary for example). In large part it is down to the proliferation of unlicensed electric mopeds ridden at speed through pedestrian areas, and the fact that nearly everyone has expensive portable electronics in their hands when out and about.

    I only get my phone out in London on the street if in a doorway with my back to a wall, and having scanned the immediate locality. I haven't heard of anyone being robbed this way outside London and similar cities like Paris and Rome.
    A classically misinformed @foxy comment

    “Vehicle theft in the UK has increased by 75% in the past decade, according to the Royal United Services Institute”

    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/projects/combatting-vehicle-theft-uk-strategies-against-organised-crime
    Both can be true, if car theft is growing from a low base because Range Rovers are now incredibly easy to nick.

    But this is another case of you only relying on the crime survey when it suits you. Vehicle-related theft is down 28% in the last 10 years.
    Overall crime levels are substantially down over the decades:



    This is an international phenomenon so not particularly related to UK policies.

    Obviously there are temporal trends, and street thefts of mobile phones are a recent phenomenon, but there was no golden age a few decades ago of low crime, just different crimes, at least in my lifetime. Being out in London or Brum at night when I was young was quite hairy at times.
    What is the longer term. I think when people talk about a "golden age" they don't mean 1981, they mean the 50s-60s is my guess, if not earlier.
    Do people today remember the '60s? If you were, say, 15 in 1965, then you'd be 75 today. Most people weren't born until after the 1960s.
    I don't think that is an issue with eg Reform voters. None were alive when the globe was painted red but it's still a golden age for them.
    PINK, my man! PINK! The wokest Empire the world ever knew!
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,976
    From previous threads, as I only check in here now and again, thought this might be of use to @leon as it is my subject area of expertise.

    So, @Leon While I bow to Roger's experience in terms of advertising, as an ex marketing bod, if this helps you write your Sidney Sweeney article:

    - It's _heavily_ based on Brooke Shields 'my Calvins' 1980 campaign for Calvin Klein Jeans - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-2uJz2df4

    - Interestingly, if you want to draw a parallel between then and now, Shields was 15 when she made these ads. Sweeney is what, 27?

    - I don't think you can really cover the 80s jeans ads without referencing the granddaddy of 80s jeans ads, Levi's Laundrette - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwG_wym3p68

    - Famously lovingly appropriated by Carling Black Label a year later - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCemJAd3KZA

    - What's interesting of course is that the Levis ad 'objectifies' men (in a fun way) and is made for the female gaze. Quite forward for its time in a way. And more interesting still, is they remade it a year ago with Beyonce in the male role but it fell flat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40oimgnN00 - mainly because it lacked any of the playfulness of the original and just felt... meh. But there is a definite *trend* towards reobjectification that started before the Sweeney ad.

    So lots here to play with in terms of changes in attitudes between the 80s (which Sweeney's ad is deliberately rooted in) and now.

    Just an ex-marketing bod's opinion, hope that is useful.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    Biometrics to replace stamps at EU border from 12 October
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8deq8qm504o

    What happened to the EU equivalent of US ESTA, where everybody has to pay a fee and fill in a load of information prior to departure?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and in a certain way I think they're right. Those were two hopeful periods.
    I'm 70. The best time to be alive is now. The best time I had was in the 80s (my 30s), not because the 80s were anything special, but because I was having a whale of a time. The best music was the 60s and early 70s ruined by keg beer. Who can forget (much as I would like to) Watneys Red Barrel and Double Diamond.
    A substantial minority of all ages thinks the best time is now. It doesn't fit with the broken Britain being pushed by the Faragists.
    Less than 1 in 10 is not what I call a substantial minority.
    Considering how objectively shite the 2020s have been in terms of covid, economic stagnation, politics, music etc then 9% of the 60 somethings and 8% of the 70 somethings is pretty good going.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    Foxy said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and in a certain way I think they're right. Those were two hopeful periods.
    I'm 70. The best time to be alive is now. The best time I had was in the 80s (my 30s), not because the 80s were anything special, but because I was having a whale of a time. The best music was the 60s and early 70s ruined by keg beer. Who can forget (much as I would like to) Watneys Red Barrel and Double Diamond.
    A substantial minority of all ages thinks the best time is now. It doesn't fit with the broken Britain being pushed by the Faragists.
    Less than 1 in 10 is not what I call a substantial minority.
    Considering how objectively shite the 2020s have been in terms of covid, economic stagnation, politics, music etc then 9% of the 60 somethings and 8% of the 70 somethings is pretty good going.
    If you say so. It isn't a substantial minority, is a very small proportion that are optimistics, which is to be expected. Also, economic stagnation hasn't hit everybody, many people with certain types of businesses did well out of COVID and those with assets and no debt are doing incredibly well (which is a big part of Gary's Economics shtick / call for wealth taxes).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TOPPING said:

    bondegezou said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    bondegezou said:

    The other week, I did not have my phone snatched by a balaclava-clad cyclist... but I almost did. I was walking to the tube station on my morning commute and this cyclist swooped down and went for my phone. But, to be frank, he was pretty incompetent at it and failed to make off with said phone. He cycled away disconsolately.

    I was surprised, took me a few seconds to even work out what had happened. It's never happened to me before and north Camden is generally an idyllic, crime-free land. I didn't think much of it, but a friend later said I should report it. I was sceptical there was any point, but I found the online police reporting system and filled in the form. A policeman rang me up the same day to ask lots of questions. I couldn't tell him much and he was honest that there wasn't much they could do about this particular attempted crime, but he was keen to record what I could tell him and was clear that they would use this as a data point. It was a helpful and prompt response for what seemed to me a minor matter.

    So, that's my anecdote, my lived experience. The police do care, even about the petty stuff. At least this one time.

    This is what happened to me, twice, the first one missed the phone and nearly got run over by a truck - then fled on his bike. The 2nd did it with supreme skill in moments, just whizzed past and grabbed it one handed

    If I had caught either of them I would have tried to beat them to near-death (they were both scrawny lads, I am pretty sure I would have won despite my advanced years). I am sure plenty of able bodied males, when robbed, get that same surge of crazy, red-mist testosterone

    So these thieves are risking it when they rob adult men
    Your latter point is why women are more commonly targeted for phone theft than men. It's also why so many people on pb question whether it's real or not.
    A friend of mine had his phone grabbed from his hand, near King's Cross Station about 3 years ago. He tried to hold onto it, but in the tussle was thrown off balance and fell. As a result he fractured his shoulder, and had to be off work for over six months and even now has impaired movement of that arm. This has been life changing for a young surgeon.

    It was a pretty crappy 4 year old phone, but thieves don't see that it is worthless until after they have it in their hands.

    This sort of crime has increased, replacing a lot of other crimes that have dramatically dropped (nicking cars and burglary for example). In large part it is down to the proliferation of unlicensed electric mopeds ridden at speed through pedestrian areas, and the fact that nearly everyone has expensive portable electronics in their hands when out and about.

    I only get my phone out in London on the street if in a doorway with my back to a wall, and having scanned the immediate locality. I haven't heard of anyone being robbed this way outside London and similar cities like Paris and Rome.
    A classically misinformed @foxy comment

    “Vehicle theft in the UK has increased by 75% in the past decade, according to the Royal United Services Institute”

    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/projects/combatting-vehicle-theft-uk-strategies-against-organised-crime
    Both can be true, if car theft is growing from a low base because Range Rovers are now incredibly easy to nick.

    But this is another case of you only relying on the crime survey when it suits you. Vehicle-related theft is down 28% in the last 10 years.
    Overall crime levels are substantially down over the decades:



    This is an international phenomenon so not particularly related to UK policies.

    Obviously there are temporal trends, and street thefts of mobile phones are a recent phenomenon, but there was no golden age a few decades ago of low crime, just different crimes, at least in my lifetime. Being out in London or Brum at night when I was young was quite hairy at times.
    What is the longer term. I think when people talk about a "golden age" they don't mean 1981, they mean the 50s-60s is my guess, if not earlier.
    Do people today remember the '60s? If you were, say, 15 in 1965, then you'd be 75 today. Most people weren't born until after the 1960s.
    I don't think that is an issue with eg Reform voters. None were alive when the globe was painted red but it's still a golden age for them.
    PINK, my man! PINK! The wokest Empire the world ever knew!
    I blame all that fagging in the public schools.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,849
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looks like the banks are mostly off the hook. I never understood the original judgement though, it seemed as though the court was saying the bank had to refund almost the entire cost of the finance deal to the customer despite the customer having had a car for the length of the deal. This is probably the correct decision in the end and we won't get 5 years of PPI style adverts.

    Spare a thought at this tough time for all the lawyers who specialise in this stuff.....we now will hold a moment of reflection.
    While I laugh at the amount of money the ambulance chasers have spent building up their client base prior to this judgement
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Biometrics to replace stamps at EU border from 12 October
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8deq8qm504o

    What happened to the EU equivalent of US ESTA, where everybody has to pay a fee and fill in a load of information prior to departure?

    Disappointing for those who like a stamp to remind them of where they've been.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,948
    Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it.

    Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    The 6% of 18-29 year olds who think the 1980s were best have great taste in music.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,293
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Afternoon, PB.

    There's something rather interesting in that poll. The fortysomethings and the seventysomethings have a higher view, proportionally, of their youth decades of the 1960"s, and 1990's, respectively, than the other cohorts do of theirs.

    I don't think that's a coincidence, and to a certain extent I think they're right.

    Those were two particularly hopeful periods.

    Good evening

    From 1952 to 1960 as I went through my teenage years were fantastic, as was the 1960s to mid 1970s as I got married, had three children, and built two successful businesses

    Indeed each decade has had more than it share of happiness, though ageing into our 80s comes with challenges
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,236
    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    You Ok hun?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,948
    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,783
    edited August 1
    Andy_JS said:

    The 6% of 18-29 year olds who think the 1980s were best have great taste in music.

    1780s, or 1880s ?

    Will no one spare a thought for earlier centuries ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,293
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    Dopermean said:

    FPT
    GB news owners are pouring their money down the drain in order to influence the news agenda.
    They run a story, the right wing papers report on it, link to it and the idiots at the BBC report on it because "it's in the news".

    You Ok hun?
    Whilst I do not watch GBnews it is outperforming BBC and Sky, but maybe that is because it chimes with so many which is reflected in the polls
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,822
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
  • eekeek Posts: 30,849
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looks like the banks are mostly off the hook. I never understood the original judgement though, it seemed as though the court was saying the bank had to refund almost the entire cost of the finance deal to the customer despite the customer having had a car for the length of the deal. This is probably the correct decision in the end and we won't get 5 years of PPI style adverts.

    Surely just the "excessive" interest would have been refunded ?
    The original law had punitive penalties to discourage such tricks because it was applied to business to business transactions where the customer is deemed to be intelligent. Hence the punative punishments for a business hiding information from the customer..
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,381
    edited August 1
    Speaking of the 1980s, just seen a SKY Sports ad featuring a footy stadium crowd singing along to "Just Can't Get Enough" :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,948
    Andy_JS said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
    No, because everything was set up to work without them at the time.

    For example, you'd print off a map for where you were going before leaving the house and text or call people to meet up, on the nokia, once yoh were close.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,849
    Omnium said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
    As Ed Zitron ( https://bsky.app/profile/edzitron.com ) pointed out last week it's a $50bn consumer business masquerading as a multiple trillion dollar enterprise business.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,593
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Coming home after a night out, the smell of smoke was terrible. I would say those the smartphone / internet is blessing and a curse. It paid for my house....but there was something great about hanging out with people or going to events where people didn't constantly feel the need to pull out their phone. Also, I doubt I would have got to half the mischief (insert fun) in my youth, if I had been worried about somebody filming it and sticking it on social media.
    The same when you ran for an about-to-depart tube, and found yourself in the smoking carriage
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,987
    I sometimes reflect on my student days, late 1970s, when friends were widely dispersed and not only did we not have mobile phones, obviously, but we also didn't have landlines, and wonder how on earth we managed to organise the brilliant social life we had. I really can't remember how we managed to meet up in pub x at time y most nights, but we did, and it wasn't a problem at all at the time.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,983
    Phew, nearly home from the big smoke and I still have my phone. Very relieved.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,822
    Casino_Royale said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
    No, because everything was set up to work without them at the time.

    For example, you'd print off a map for where you were going before leaving the house and text or call people to meet up, on the nokia, once yoh were close.
    I'm not convinced that printing a map was ever a thing. Printers were rubbish and expensive beyond the date that phones became cheap.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    The chief civil servant at the Ministry of Defence will be replaced in the wake of the Afghan data breach, the department has announced. The BBC understands Williams' departure was agreed before the leak became public.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgprxzggz4o

    As in 2 minutes before it was made public?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    Northern_Al said:

    I sometimes reflect on my student days, late 1970s, when friends were widely dispersed and not only did we not have mobile phones, obviously, but we also didn't have landlines, and wonder how on earth we managed to organise the brilliant social life we had. I really can't remember how we managed to meet up in pub x at time y most nights, but we did, and it wasn't a problem at all at the time.

    The way I managed it in the Eighties was simply going to the same pubs at pretty much the same time. So if it's Friday at eight, will be in The Mash Tun. If it was Saturday afternoon, sitting on the Buttercross etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,410
    tlg86 said:

    The 70s really were shite, weren't they?

    Other than the strikes and the power cuts they were fantastic. TV was great, music was great and with the exception of between 1973 and 1976 West Brom were in the top flight. Welsh Rugby was at its peak too.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    Best article I've read on how new technology keeps people addicted to "content".

    "Social media is engineering amnesia
    We’re trapped in Big Tech’s mind maze
    Gurwinder Bhogal"

    https://unherd.com/2025/08/were-trapped-in-big-techs-mind-maze
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    edited August 1
    Shock news. Reform leads with people who don't like cheese.

    https://bsky.app/profile/luketryl.bsky.social/post/3lvduyiqzvk2g

    I reckon that they have the vegan vote sewn up.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,082
    a
    Omnium said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
    I agree.

    The real meat here is that for a lot of tasks “AI” is a useful for a rough guesstimate of what is required.

    It’s output s about 70% of what is required and you need to do the rest yourself. However, generating the prompts to get to 70% takes a chunk of the gains.

    How much is that worth?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,082
    Foxy said:

    Northern_Al said:

    I sometimes reflect on my student days, late 1970s, when friends were widely dispersed and not only did we not have mobile phones, obviously, but we also didn't have landlines, and wonder how on earth we managed to organise the brilliant social life we had. I really can't remember how we managed to meet up in pub x at time y most nights, but we did, and it wasn't a problem at all at the time.

    The way I managed it in the Eighties was simply going to the same pubs at pretty much the same time. So if it's Friday at eight, will be in The Mash Tun. If it was Saturday afternoon, sitting on the Buttercross etc.
    Yup - well into the late 90s that was how it worked for many - Default meetup was pub x or y.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,144
    I am going to put this to the test next month. I am going to a school reunion, to see people who left school along with me in 1978.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    Malmesbury said:

    a

    Omnium said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
    I agree.

    The real meat here is that for a lot of tasks “AI” is a useful for a rough guesstimate of what is required.

    It’s output s about 70% of what is required and you need to do the rest yourself. However, generating the prompts to get to 70% takes a chunk of the gains.

    How much is that worth?
    There is another issue. These models are really hard on the GPUs for inference (not just training), both in terms of cost of electricity to run the datacentre, but also just wearing out the GPUs at $25k a pop. Unlike a lot of digital products, scaling this and maintaining it is incredibly expensive, which is the opposite of what made the internet / internet services be such a cash cow.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,082
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Omnium said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
    No, because everything was set up to work without them at the time.

    For example, you'd print off a map for where you were going before leaving the house and text or call people to meet up, on the nokia, once yoh were close.
    I'm not convinced that printing a map was ever a thing. Printers were rubbish and expensive beyond the date that phones became cheap.
    Good old A-Z :sunglasses:
    Yup - it was between that and printing…

    Anyone remember Streetmap? A-Z data plus a postcode finding feature. So your printout would have an red arrow marking the destination.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Culture secretary calls on Morecambe owner to sell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c24zn043d6qo

    What's going on here?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,082
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Malmesbury said:

    a

    Omnium said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
    I agree.

    The real meat here is that for a lot of tasks “AI” is a useful for a rough guesstimate of what is required.

    It’s output s about 70% of what is required and you need to do the rest yourself. However, generating the prompts to get to 70% takes a chunk of the gains.

    How much is that worth?
    There is another issue. These models are really hard on the GPUs for inference (not just training), both in terms of cost of electricity to run the datacentre, but also just wearing out the GPUs at $25k a pop. Unlike a lot of digital products, scaling this and maintaining it is incredibly expensive, which is the opposite of what made the internet / internet services be such a cash cow.
    Which is why I asked how much it is worth.

    The numbers from run-your-own-LLMs suggest that it is expensive vs the results.

    What’s the real profit margin that is possible?
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,557
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Culture secretary calls on Morecambe owner to sell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c24zn043d6qo

    What's going on here?

    The government setting up a regulator for football is a shit show waiting to happen
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    Northern_Al said:

    I sometimes reflect on my student days, late 1970s, when friends were widely dispersed and not only did we not have mobile phones, obviously, but we also didn't have landlines, and wonder how on earth we managed to organise the brilliant social life we had. I really can't remember how we managed to meet up in pub x at time y most nights, but we did, and it wasn't a problem at all at the time.

    Wasn't there a communal landline available?
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,557
    kyf_100 said:

    From previous threads, as I only check in here now and again, thought this might be of use to @leon as it is my subject area of expertise.

    So, @Leon While I bow to Roger's experience in terms of advertising, as an ex marketing bod, if this helps you write your Sidney Sweeney article:

    - It's _heavily_ based on Brooke Shields 'my Calvins' 1980 campaign for Calvin Klein Jeans - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-2uJz2df4

    - Interestingly, if you want to draw a parallel between then and now, Shields was 15 when she made these ads. Sweeney is what, 27?

    - I don't think you can really cover the 80s jeans ads without referencing the granddaddy of 80s jeans ads, Levi's Laundrette - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwG_wym3p68

    - Famously lovingly appropriated by Carling Black Label a year later - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCemJAd3KZA

    - What's interesting of course is that the Levis ad 'objectifies' men (in a fun way) and is made for the female gaze. Quite forward for its time in a way. And more interesting still, is they remade it a year ago with Beyonce in the male role but it fell flat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40oimgnN00 - mainly because it lacked any of the playfulness of the original and just felt... meh. But there is a definite *trend* towards reobjectification that started before the Sweeney ad.

    So lots here to play with in terms of changes in attitudes between the 80s (which Sweeney's ad is deliberately rooted in) and now.

    Just an ex-marketing bod's opinion, hope that is useful.

    Brooke Shields makes a swastika with her legs at the end of the CK ad. Have a look
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,024
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Culture secretary calls on Morecambe owner to sell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c24zn043d6qo

    What's going on here?

    Perhaps the owner has plans for the ground.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Andy_JS said:

    Northern_Al said:

    I sometimes reflect on my student days, late 1970s, when friends were widely dispersed and not only did we not have mobile phones, obviously, but we also didn't have landlines, and wonder how on earth we managed to organise the brilliant social life we had. I really can't remember how we managed to meet up in pub x at time y most nights, but we did, and it wasn't a problem at all at the time.

    Wasn't there a communal landline available?
    Reminds of the infamous horse race betting incident...

    The Yellow Sam betting coup

    the track was serviced by just two telephone lines, one public telephone box and a private telephone line belonging to the Extel company which supplied racing data to betting shops. The Extel line was put out of use [probably cut] early in the day leaving just one telephone line available to communicate to the course bookies who determined the starting prices for the participants

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Sam_betting_coup
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,144
    Sam Stein
    @samstein
    ·
    4h
    It's Biden's economy again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    tlg86 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Culture secretary calls on Morecambe owner to sell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c24zn043d6qo

    What's going on here?

    Perhaps the owner has plans for the ground.
    Its been up for sale for 3 years as the owners don't have any money and the buyer has been in talks for a year to buy it. I don't quite understand why they are not selling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,082
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    tlg86 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Culture secretary calls on Morecambe owner to sell
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c24zn043d6qo

    What's going on here?

    Perhaps the owner has plans for the ground.
    Its been up for sale for 3 years as the owners don't have any money and the buyer has been in talks for a year to buy it. I don't quite understand why they are not selling.
    If the owners sell for a price they can get, this crystallises losses and threatens the rest of their pile of cards?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,144
    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    26m
    🚨🚨Trump: I have ordered two nuclear submarines to be positioned in appropriate regions near Russia.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,948
    Omnium said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
    No, because everything was set up to work without them at the time.

    For example, you'd print off a map for where you were going before leaving the house and text or call people to meet up, on the nokia, once yoh were close.
    I'm not convinced that printing a map was ever a thing. Printers were rubbish and expensive beyond the date that phones became cheap.
    Well, that's what I did.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    rottenborough said:

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    26m
    🚨🚨Trump: I have ordered two nuclear submarines to be positioned in appropriate regions near Russia.

    @TSE on holiday too.

    Is it time to panic-buy toilet rolls yet?

    (80th anniversary of the Hiroshima bomb on Wednesday btw)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,144
    Foxy said:

    rottenborough said:

    Republicans against Trump
    @RpsAgainstTrump
    ·
    26m
    🚨🚨Trump: I have ordered two nuclear submarines to be positioned in appropriate regions near Russia.

    @TSE on holiday too.

    Is it time to panic-buy toilet rolls yet?

    (80th anniversary of the Hiroshima bomb on Wednesday btw)
    Trying to distracted from terrible jobs report figures this morning.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,449
    nunu2 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    From previous threads, as I only check in here now and again, thought this might be of use to @leon as it is my subject area of expertise.

    So, @Leon While I bow to Roger's experience in terms of advertising, as an ex marketing bod, if this helps you write your Sidney Sweeney article:

    - It's _heavily_ based on Brooke Shields 'my Calvins' 1980 campaign for Calvin Klein Jeans - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9-2uJz2df4

    - Interestingly, if you want to draw a parallel between then and now, Shields was 15 when she made these ads. Sweeney is what, 27?

    - I don't think you can really cover the 80s jeans ads without referencing the granddaddy of 80s jeans ads, Levi's Laundrette - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwG_wym3p68

    - Famously lovingly appropriated by Carling Black Label a year later - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCemJAd3KZA

    - What's interesting of course is that the Levis ad 'objectifies' men (in a fun way) and is made for the female gaze. Quite forward for its time in a way. And more interesting still, is they remade it a year ago with Beyonce in the male role but it fell flat - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q40oimgnN00 - mainly because it lacked any of the playfulness of the original and just felt... meh. But there is a definite *trend* towards reobjectification that started before the Sweeney ad.

    So lots here to play with in terms of changes in attitudes between the 80s (which Sweeney's ad is deliberately rooted in) and now.

    Just an ex-marketing bod's opinion, hope that is useful.

    Brooke Shields makes a swastika with her legs at the end of the CK ad. Have a look
    The Ad is a perfectly managed bit of clickbait where the story is the story.

    https://www.readtpa.com/p/the-sydney-sweeney-jeans-ad-backlash
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,755
    Omnium said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The AI infrastructure build-out is so gigantic that in the past 6 months, it contributed more to the growth of the U.S. economy than /all of consumer spending/ The 'magnificent 7' spent more than $100 billion on data centers and the like in the past three months *alone*

    https://x.com/mims/status/1951256592642441239

    My hunch is that they're throwing their money away. I'm retired, nonetheless I have a modest insight into the area. Nothing, absolutely nothing, I've heard about suggests that anyone has even had a sniff of the holy grail (actual ai).

    It's a very interesting and mad arms race.

    (I'm probably wrong, but I have absolute conviction that I'm not)
    I'm also sceptical. Anyone have any ideas about how to protect investments against an AI bubble?
    My index funds seem very US tech heavy....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,804
    Interesting and disturbing fact I heard on Alastair Campbell's podcast ;

    Two out of five people prosecuted after the Southport riots had previously been involved in domestic violence.

    Doesn't this tell us something disturbing about the far right who are currently leading in the polls?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Trump said he acted "just in case these foolish and inflammatory statements are more than just that. Words are very important, and can often lead to unintended consequences, I hope this will not be one of those instances".

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,122
    edited August 1
    Apols if posted as I've been out all day but BMG have this months Inews poll out including one with Your Party and one without

    Ref 32 (+2)
    Lab 23 (-4)
    Con 18 (-1)
    LD 13 (+1)
    Grn 8 (+1)
    Changes since end June

    With Corbyn
    Ref 31
    Lab 20
    Con 19
    LD 13
    Grn 7
    YP 6
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,410
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Biometrics to replace stamps at EU border from 12 October
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8deq8qm504o

    What happened to the EU equivalent of US ESTA, where everybody has to pay a fee and fill in a load of information prior to departure?

    Queueing with the Russians and Belarusians at EU airports is bad enough. I thought Starmer was going to get rid of that old caper.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,795
    edited August 1
    Malmesbury said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Omnium said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Casino_Royale said:

    On topic, I think 1995 to 2007 was pretty good, because it included good growth and a free liberal feel with great music and culture achievements. But, at the time, we've have also complained about public services, growing immigration, cool Britannia stuff, the threat of the Euro, and 9/11, Iraq and the war on terror. Also, post 2001, a lot of the time we were scared about terrorist attacks.

    We tend to forget the bad bits now - and if we went back now the smoking in restaurants and pubs would probably annoy us, as would the lack of smartphones and internet connectivity - but the benign environment essentially explains why Blair kept winning.

    Do we really think that people would have missed smartphones in the 1990s, if they'd guessed they'd be coming a few years later?
    No, because everything was set up to work without them at the time.

    For example, you'd print off a map for where you were going before leaving the house and text or call people to meet up, on the nokia, once yoh were close.
    I'm not convinced that printing a map was ever a thing. Printers were rubbish and expensive beyond the date that phones became cheap.
    Good old A-Z :sunglasses:
    Yup - it was between that and printing…

    Anyone remember Streetmap? A-Z data plus a postcode finding feature. So your printout would have an red arrow marking the destination.
    Still there. It has throughout been the reliable place to get a postcard sized area of OS MAP to check where the public footpaths are. Not in Central London, though.

    There are others, but they change.

    https://streetmap.co.uk/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Britain’s 'most tattooed man' says he is unable to bypass UK’s new age‑check systems due to his face being mistaken for a mask
    https://x.com/Dexerto/status/1951236937169158301
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    From day one as Ilford North’s MP I’ve had an accessible and visible constituency office to serve my local community.

    Repeated criminal damage is unfair to my staff and an attack on democracy.

    I will not be commenting further while there is a live police investigation.

    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1951308368716427450
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,410
    edited August 1
    wooliedyed said:

    Apols if posted as I've been out all day but BMG have this months Inews poll out including one with Your Party and one without

    Ref 32 (+2)
    Lab 23 (-4)
    Con 18 (-1)
    LD 13 (+1)
    Grn 8 (+1)
    Changes since end June

    With Corbyn
    Ref 31
    Lab 20
    Con 19
    LD 13
    Grn 7
    YP 6

    How do the Tories get a boost from Corbyn, or is that just rounding up?

    RefCon winning on 50%
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,795
    edited August 1
    ..
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,122
    edited August 1
    Mexicanpete said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Apols if posted as I've been out all day but BMG have this months Inews poll out including one with Your Party and one without

    Ref 32 (+2)
    Lab 23 (-4)
    Con 18 (-1)
    LD 13 (+1)
    Grn 8 (+1)
    Changes since end June

    With Corbyn
    Ref 31
    Lab 20
    Con 19
    LD 13
    Grn 7
    YP 6

    How do the Tories get a boost from Corbyn, or is that just rounding up?
    Haven't got tables yet but the Find Out Now hypothetical poll also found a 1 point Tory increase from Corbyn being included - it might be a product of increased Tory certainty to vote if a left wing Party enters the fray?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,895
    edited August 1
    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,795
    Roger said:

    Interesting and disturbing fact I heard on Alastair Campbell's podcast ;

    Two out of five people prosecuted after the Southport riots had previously been involved in domestic violence.

    Doesn't this tell us something disturbing about the far right who are currently leading in the polls?

    That's interesting on the timing, without casting aspersions either way it says thing about podcast schedules and time taken for reflection - it's taken a week to make it from the news to the AS podcast.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,122
    wooliedyed said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Apols if posted as I've been out all day but BMG have this months Inews poll out including one with Your Party and one without

    Ref 32 (+2)
    Lab 23 (-4)
    Con 18 (-1)
    LD 13 (+1)
    Grn 8 (+1)
    Changes since end June

    With Corbyn
    Ref 31
    Lab 20
    Con 19
    LD 13
    Grn 7
    YP 6

    How do the Tories get a boost from Corbyn, or is that just rounding up?
    Haven't got tables yet but the Find Out Now hypothetical poll also found a 1 point Tory increase from Corbyn being included - it might be a product of increased Tory certainty to vote if a left wing Party enters the fray?
    Also wonder which poll we should now be taking as their correct 'monthly poll' - 6 councillors have defected to Corbyn in Hastings today so they are an actual thing not a hypothetical anymore.......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Pulpstar said:

    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.

    Physio will be busy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,895
    Dawson going to lose his sub fielding job lol
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    Jaiswal dropped on 20 and 40....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    Pulpstar said:

    Dawson going to lose his sub fielding job lol

    Your confidence probably isn't high when you've just been dropped from the team. Maybe it would have been better to have someone else fielding as sub.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    Andy_JS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dawson going to lose his sub fielding job lol

    Your confidence probably isn't high when you've just been dropped from the team. Maybe it would have been better to have someone else fielding as sub.
    I never quite understand why an international team where every chance counts you don't have gun fielders as backups rather than the bloke who you dropped. I mean I would be tempted to have you ropey fielders who aren't bowlers have terrible bouts of illness.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    ANOTHER DROP?!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    edited August 1
    Andy_JS said:

    ANOTHER DROP?!

    Your joking....Not another one,

    England throwing this game away.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,122
    Pulpstar said:

    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.

    Bin Carse and Tongue for Hull and Stone if fit
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,446
    wooliedyed said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.

    Bin Carse and Tongue for Hull and Stone if fit
    Why Stone? He isn't the bowler he was and has been basically injured for 5 years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,895
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.

    Physio will be busy.
    Tongue will have no worries getting time bowling
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,122
    Bollocks fielding from England. Throwing the series win away today
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,716
    Roger said:

    Interesting and disturbing fact I heard on Alastair Campbell's podcast ;

    Two out of five people prosecuted after the Southport riots had previously been involved in domestic violence.

    Doesn't this tell us something disturbing about the far right who are currently leading in the polls?

    Why do you say the far-right are currently leading in the polls?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,948
    Pulpstar said:

    Crawley
    Duckett
    Pope
    Root
    Brook
    Stokes
    Smith
    Atkinson
    Bashir
    Archer
    Wood

    Tongue 12th.
    Carse 13th

    for Oz.

    Wouldn't bother with Dawson or Overton.

    What a classically English list of names.

    They could all be archers at Agincourt. Bashir maybe more of a stretch, but still one of the team.
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