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You can't handle the truth. Honesty is Starmer’s only advantage over Farage – politicalbetting.com

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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,495

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    Trump's pecadillos are well documented. Take the sealed file from 2015 involving someone who shares a first name with the model Jordan and a surname with Britain's worst Prime Minister ever, by a country mile.
    An impossible conundrum - there are too many of them...
  • isamisam Posts: 42,166
    I’m not able to read the article in The Telegraph as I’m no or a subscriber, is there a link to the leader ratings @TheScreamingEagles ? Did they ask the personality question?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    The chance the Democrats would not have used any Epstein evidence to bury Trump if it existed is zero given the lengths they went to to try and lock him up/stop him running
    Given who has been identified as going on the plane to Epstein's island retreat, it's pretty hard to find clean hands.

    Which was Epstein's intention, I think.
    Totally. You'll find em everywhere whatever your political persuasion and celebrity favourite. Fucking perverts
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    edited 10:16AM
    eek said:

    Cicero said:

    scampi25 said:

    kinabalu said:

    So voters don't think Nigel Farage "tells it as it is" then.

    Hats off voters.

    Of course Starmer never fibs - he's the typical good honest lawyer....
    "Whatabout"ism does not work when you are claiming to be the new force that will change things.

    Support for Farage is not going to survive much scrutiny, and it is fragile enough as it is.
    I suspect that even under a lot of scrutiny Reform will sit at 15-20% because a lot of people don’t pay attention and will only see the shiny new wonderland he promises not grasping that they won’t be part of it nor the consequences of how the changes will impact them (see Trump voters discovering ICE is after them or Medicare is no more).
    RefCon have about 50% to target and I cant see even a resurgent Tory party (of which there is much doubt!) getting much over 30% so Reform will at worst beat last years effort by a few % and will likely hit 20% plus
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    Oooh
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,495

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    Trump's pecadillos are well documented. Take the sealed file from 2015 involving someone who shares a first name with the model Jordan and a surname with Britain's worst Prime Minister ever, by a country mile.
    An impossible conundrum - there are too many of them...
    (I see you meant Johnson. Surely Truss was the worst? And surely the person making the specific claim dropped her claim.)
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    Pant that, Rishabh
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,249
    edited 10:23AM
    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,119

    Want government investment? You’d better be diverse.

    https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/13/uk-launches-500-package-to-support-diverse-underrepresented-investors-and-founders/

    The British Business Bank, owned by the UK government, is creating a £500 million (around $674 million) economic package to help support diverse and underrepresented fund managers and founders in the country.

    That in a nutshell is the problem with this godforsaken country. Not support for ‘diverse’ creators or inventors but the idea it is fund managers who need government support. Fund managers!
    Yup.

    I've been shown some emails, recently, relating to the Brit Volt.

    When published (going in a book someone is writing), they will fit the format of comedy best, I think.

    The politicians, civil servants and various quangocrats, all congratulating themselves in dealing with a Proper Company of "Expert Investors" without "Too much influence from techies"...

    The think about the NU10K is that it looks a bit more diverse than the Old10K. But this is quite superficial - there is no diversity of thought.

    Possibly Sunak, himself, is the perfect example of this.
    Are you sure this is on Sunak? Appears from the government's own webpage the promise was made by Boris and the final payment / drawing the line under it was Kwasi.

    Aren't you glad these clowns buffoons* are not in charge now.

    (* Clowns have been complaining about being associated with the last government)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-grant-offer-provided-to-britishvolt
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,425

    FF43 said:

    Hard to say without seeing the actual poll but I suspect I disagree with the British public. Including the leadership question, where Starmer is pretty bad, but Farage is much worse again. He hasn't led a party that didn't subsequently collapse into dust.

    Suspect the key thing is that a bit less than a third of the electorate are really, really pro-Farage, and hardly anyone is really pro-anyone else.

    The question for the next election looks pretty dismal. One candidate who is intensely loved by some but hated by more. Another candidate who stirs nobody's enthusiasm. Who wins?
    At this point, the question is who is on offer. Starmer, Badenoch and Farage might all have fallen out a window, for one reason or another.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    There's a double header local by election in Dartford this week which should give a flavour on Reforms current popularity there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    Battlebus said:

    Want government investment? You’d better be diverse.

    https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/13/uk-launches-500-package-to-support-diverse-underrepresented-investors-and-founders/

    The British Business Bank, owned by the UK government, is creating a £500 million (around $674 million) economic package to help support diverse and underrepresented fund managers and founders in the country.

    That in a nutshell is the problem with this godforsaken country. Not support for ‘diverse’ creators or inventors but the idea it is fund managers who need government support. Fund managers!
    Yup.

    I've been shown some emails, recently, relating to the Brit Volt.

    When published (going in a book someone is writing), they will fit the format of comedy best, I think.

    The politicians, civil servants and various quangocrats, all congratulating themselves in dealing with a Proper Company of "Expert Investors" without "Too much influence from techies"...

    The think about the NU10K is that it looks a bit more diverse than the Old10K. But this is quite superficial - there is no diversity of thought.

    Possibly Sunak, himself, is the perfect example of this.
    Are you sure this is on Sunak? Appears from the government's own webpage the promise was made by Boris and the final payment / drawing the line under it was Kwasi.

    Aren't you glad these clowns buffoons* are not in charge now.

    (* Clowns have been complaining about being associated with the last government)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-grant-offer-provided-to-britishvolt
    Starmer is the incumbent. This is PB, can't we pin British Volt on him?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629
    Battlebus said:

    Want government investment? You’d better be diverse.

    https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/13/uk-launches-500-package-to-support-diverse-underrepresented-investors-and-founders/

    The British Business Bank, owned by the UK government, is creating a £500 million (around $674 million) economic package to help support diverse and underrepresented fund managers and founders in the country.

    That in a nutshell is the problem with this godforsaken country. Not support for ‘diverse’ creators or inventors but the idea it is fund managers who need government support. Fund managers!
    Yup.

    I've been shown some emails, recently, relating to the Brit Volt.

    When published (going in a book someone is writing), they will fit the format of comedy best, I think.

    The politicians, civil servants and various quangocrats, all congratulating themselves in dealing with a Proper Company of "Expert Investors" without "Too much influence from techies"...

    The think about the NU10K is that it looks a bit more diverse than the Old10K. But this is quite superficial - there is no diversity of thought.

    Possibly Sunak, himself, is the perfect example of this.
    Are you sure this is on Sunak? Appears from the government's own webpage the promise was made by Boris and the final payment / drawing the line under it was Kwasi.

    Aren't you glad these clowns buffoons* are not in charge now.

    (* Clowns have been complaining about being associated with the last government)

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/final-grant-offer-provided-to-britishvolt
    No, I meant that Sunak is possibly a perfect example of the NU10K Diversity-Without-Any-Diversity-Of-Thought.

    The politicians stayed relatively far back from BritVol - they never gave the big sums of money. One thing covered in the emails is frustration from various stake holders that the Government was refusing to Go Big on this.

    Bit like the Branson space launch nonsense and the "UK Spaceport".
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,425
    edited 10:33AM
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,119
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    There is a second part where she (Jodie Brown) has replied to criticism of the post where she adds in more conspiracy theories - one of which is banned on this site so I won't link to it.

    Wonder how many of these councillors will end up seeking treatment for their paranoia?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,890
    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    Saturdays Opinium tables now out, with changes from 2 weeks ago (steady as she goes)

    Ref 29 (-1)
    Labour 24 (-1)
    Con 18 (+1)
    LD 13 (+1)
    Green 9 (=)
    SNP 3 (=)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,082

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
    If the media, particularly the Mail and Telegraph, went after these nutcases, I suspect RefUK's polling would fall.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,723

    stodge said:

    Good morning

    This poll shows just how Starmer has failed in his first year and opened the door to Farage

    With the conservatives presently dead in the water and another poll this morning in the Metro affirming the public 'do not trust any of them', the country is in a deep hole and hence the illusion Farage is the answer

    I would suggest there are less than a handful of our fellow posters who actually endorse Farage but he certainly receives the wide publicity he does due to our political vacuum

    Not for the first time, I'm going to disagree with you on much of this.

    I'm left with a number of thoughts - had, by some miracle, Rishi Sunak been re-elected, would he now have as dire poll numbers as Starmer? Probably. Had, by some other miracle, Farage and Reform won last year's election, would he have such good numbers as he has now? Probably not.

    There seemed to have been some unrealistic expectations about what an incoming Labour Government could, should or would do and, among some, there is almost a reflexive dislike of the very concept of a "Labour Government" which is up there with what you should or shouldn't put on a pizza.

    Starmer had two choices - one was to be radical and unpopular from day one. We all knew restoring the public finances and trying to correct years of Conservative inertia (as an aside, my biggest condemnation of your party is not that they did the wrong thing but rather they did nothing across a range of issues) would involve pain in terms of tax rises and spending cuts and going hard on that (hampered by the OBR) would have been helpful.

    The other option was to be Continuity Sunak and continue to kick the can of the difficult issues down the road. Change without change so to speak.

    Starmer's problem is he has tried to do both and done neither. We have half-hearted exhortations of change backed up by continuing inertia and hamstrung, despite a large majority, by a tranche of fearful MPs suspecting their tenure on Westminster could be very short. It has disappointed those who hoped for better and confirmed the fears of those who suspected the worst.

    The one saving grace for Starmer is none of his political opponents have the slightest clue how to handle the big issues from the "small boats" to social care to prison places to balancing the public finances to the huge demographic and technological challenges our economy and society has to confront and this helps Starmer and Labour enormously.

    People are frustrated not because it's the wrong type of change but there appears to be no change. Another summer and the "boats" are still coming, the economy is still stagnating etc. The other side of this desire for change is the solutions most people have are either incoherent, ruinously expensive, illegal or all three predicated on it being pain for other people but not for themselves. The frustration is as much because no one can see the solutions rather than there being obvious solutions but the Government won't implement them.
    The mood music among the Head Count is “They are all useless. And they are not in control.”

    It’s the control but that grates the most.

    Farage is not seen as a messiah - just the Next Try.
    Yes, that's right - and the reason that negative campaigning against Farage/Reform doesn't really shift the numbers much. People know they're dodgy, but they feel they've tried the established alternatives.

    That does give an opportunity to Corbyn & co. if they can sort themselves out without months of introspection, because they offer some positive hope, unrestricted by promises at the last election. I had dinner last night with half a dozen Labour people whom I know socially - all of whom would currently say "Labour" to YouGov - and was surprised to hear that they were all open to switching if the launch was handled properly (which Zara's premature action certainly didn't). Corbyn himself is both a positive and a negative, and his favoured collective leadership may be the answer. Making it all work smoothly will be quite a trick, though - it's an opportunity, but not a given. A point that was raised was whether the Greens (potentially under new leadership) would be open to cooperation in terms of focusing on different seats.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    India collapsing. Good.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    Maybe Zia will be so upset by the lack of savings he will flounce again and have Nigel beg him to stay (again)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    Good length
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,495

    India collapsing. Good.

    Like I said last night - two quick wickets in the first hour and it could all fall over for India. I'm still haunted by Edgbaston 2005 though... (I know we won in the end, but that WAS tense).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688

    India collapsing. Good.

    Like I said last night - two quick wickets in the first hour and it could all fall over for India. I'm still haunted by Edgbaston 2005 though... (I know we won in the end, but that WAS tense).
    We could always rely on Billy Bowden not knowing the difference between willow and Kasprowiczs shoulder
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
    If the media, particularly the Mail and Telegraph, went after these nutcases, I suspect RefUK's polling would fall.
    And why exactly should the Mail and Telegraph want to attack a right wing party which looks set to annihilate Labour?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,890

    India collapsing. Good.

    I sense a fish supper heaving into view for Mrs Stodge.

    However, I'm reminded there's mainly a slip between mouth and chip so no counting of chickens, cod or haddock at this time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    stodge said:

    India collapsing. Good.

    I sense a fish supper heaving into view for Mrs Stodge.

    However, I'm reminded there's mainly a slip between mouth and chip so no counting of chickens, cod or haddock at this time.
    It’s still horribly tense

    India keeping the runs ticking over
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,777
    I see Farage is tying himself again to Trump over recalling MPs for the state visit.

    Is that wise given UK peeps view of Trump?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,119
    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,308
    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    The same rate of saving would yield ~£17bn if applied to government spending. Isn't that the entirety of the government's current "fiscal blackhole"?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    stodge said:

    India collapsing. Good.

    I sense a fish supper heaving into view for Mrs Stodge.

    However, I'm reminded there's mainly a slip between mouth and chip so no counting of chickens, cod or haddock at this time.
    Get Jadeja and we are home free
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    Need Stokes to do just one piece of heroics. Ok two
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688

    I see Farage is tying himself again to Trump over recalling MPs for the state visit.

    Is that wise given UK peeps view of Trump?

    Probably somewhat helps consolidates his current vote as Reformers are far more pro Trump than the UK generally
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,690
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Reform have a big problem with perceptions around confidence, potentially. This isn’t hugely surprising given the record of Farage’s previous outfits, but it could grow to be an issue electorally.

    It’s hard to deliver change if you’re perceived to be chaotic and unstable as a party. Trump of course thrives off this, but then he operates in a different political system where he does not need to (to anything near the same extent) rely on the confidence of legislators.

    Depends how much the electorate are in the “burn it all down” phase at the next GE.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,652
    edited 11:01AM

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    They are saving £7.5m (between now and 2030) by not buying ev vehicles - which means they are buying either an awful lot of vehicles or they are going to keep the existing ones another 5 years.

    And reality is ev’s have a bigger up front cost but save money over the lifecycle so I don’t see the saving

    Child care homes are being shifted back in house. That’s not going to be any saving regardless of Reform’s hopes
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    ...
    Leon said:

    Good length

    Ooh Mrs!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,495

    India collapsing. Good.

    Like I said last night - two quick wickets in the first hour and it could all fall over for India. I'm still haunted by Edgbaston 2005 though... (I know we won in the end, but that WAS tense).
    We could always rely on Billy Bowden not knowing the difference between willow and Kasprowiczs shoulder
    Swings and roundabouts. Pretty sure there was an LBW not given way before we go to 3 runs needed.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688

    India collapsing. Good.

    Like I said last night - two quick wickets in the first hour and it could all fall over for India. I'm still haunted by Edgbaston 2005 though... (I know we won in the end, but that WAS tense).
    We could always rely on Billy Bowden not knowing the difference between willow and Kasprowiczs shoulder
    Swings and roundabouts. Pretty sure there was an LBW not given way before we go to 3 runs needed.
    Aye, true enough. It was good of Warney to tread on his stumps though!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    Got a horrible feeling India will sneak this
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    edited 11:09AM

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    The chance the Democrats would not have used any Epstein evidence to bury Trump if it existed is zero given the lengths they went to to try and lock him up/stop him running
    Given who has been identified as going on the plane to Epstein's island retreat, it's pretty hard to find clean hands.

    Which was Epstein's intention, I think.
    Totally. You'll find em everywhere whatever your political persuasion and celebrity favourite. Fucking perverts
    Epstein was a Democrat. His circle was laden with high profile Democrats up up no good. At the time Donald J. Trump was a Democrat.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
    If the media, particularly the Mail and Telegraph, went after these nutcases, I suspect RefUK's polling would fall.
    And why exactly should the Mail and Telegraph want to attack a right wing party which looks set to annihilate Labour?
    The above theory is a copy&pasta from Corbynite conspiracy theories.

    Horseshoes all round...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    If only England could have added 50 more in the 2nd innings
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,201

    I see Farage is tying himself again to Trump over recalling MPs for the state visit.

    Is that wise given UK peeps view of Trump?

    Well there will be 4 of them on their own
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
    If the media, particularly the Mail and Telegraph, went after these nutcases, I suspect RefUK's polling would fall.
    And why exactly should the Mail and Telegraph want to attack a right wing party which looks set to annihilate Labour?
    The above theory is a copy&pasta from Corbynite conspiracy theories.

    Horseshoes all round...
    Er, how? I know people on both papers. Their stance is not a joke. They hate and abhor Labour
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629
    eek said:

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    They are saving £7.5m (between now and 2030) by not buying ev vehicles - which means they are buying either an awful lot of vehicles or they are going to keep the existing ones another 5 years.

    And reality is ev’s have a bigger up front cost but save money over the lifecycle so I don’t see the saving

    Child care homes are being shifted back in house. That’s not going to be any saving regardless of Reform’s hopes
    On shifting things in house. Anything you do, every single day, is part of your Core Business. Contracting out (often through 5 layers) insulates you from having any control or responsibility.

    Or is that the point?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768
    CARSE! FECK! CARSE!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On the header, I'd say Reform UK in local authorities are moving from the "Fuck Around" phase to "Find Out". Alongside approximately one Councillor per week and one MP per month going pop, the Deputy Chair of Derbyshire Council Council some way along the the David Icke spectrum (piccie quota), an 18 year old about to start running Warwickshire as minority party leader if confirmed next week, we have the Leader of Kent County Council behaving a little like Elon Musk in her approach to cutting things.

    I'd say that Kent is one to watch - Farage reportedly wants it to be his DOLGE poster child.


    Bat-shit crazies will bat-shit crazy.

    Four years of this? Nah...
    If the media, particularly the Mail and Telegraph, went after these nutcases, I suspect RefUK's polling would fall.
    And why exactly should the Mail and Telegraph want to attack a right wing party which looks set to annihilate Labour?
    The above theory is a copy&pasta from Corbynite conspiracy theories.

    Horseshoes all round...
    Er, how? I know people on both papers. Their stance is not a joke. They hate and abhor Labour
    The conspiracy theories about everything being sold to rich furriners are very prevalent on the Fruit&Nut Left. They are also prevalent on the Fruit&Nut Right.

    “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,249

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    Reform in Nottinghamshire are also doing the "stay in our 100 year old HQ thing", which in Notts' case will require £50m+ of maintenance and capex to keep it useable, and bring it up to scratch. The new one has already been built, and is central in the county..

    In Kent it is "bring childrens' homes back in house", plus stopping home improvements to save energy.

    I'm not sure they have numbers...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,771
    Right confusing the way the coverage goes back to a random wicket sometimes lol
  • ...

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    Trump's pecadillos are well documented. Take the sealed file from 2015 involving someone who shares a first name with the model Jordan and a surname with Britain's worst Prime Minister ever, by a country mile.
    That name is a pseudonym anyway, and is published on Wikipedia, so you probably don't need to be coy.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,927
    Pulpstar said:

    Right confusing the way the coverage goes back to a random wicket sometimes lol

    It really annoys my dad.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,308
    Leon said:

    Got a horrible feeling India will sneak this

    Doubtful, at the current scoring rate they need to last 40 overs and the Indian tail is pretty shit at batting.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,249
    eek said:

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    They are saving £7.5m (between now and 2030) by not buying ev vehicles - which means they are buying either an awful lot of vehicles or they are going to keep the existing ones another 5 years.

    And reality is ev’s have a bigger up front cost but save money over the lifecycle so I don’t see the saving

    Child care homes are being shifted back in house. That’s not going to be any saving regardless of Reform’s hopes
    £7.5m is - what - 250 vehicles at £30k each, or 150 at £50k? So 30-50 per annum.

    Kent CC has a workforce of around 30k, so it's not *that* many relatively, without going deep into the detail
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,771
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Got a horrible feeling India will sneak this

    Doubtful, at the current scoring rate they need to last 40 overs and the Indian tail is pretty shit at batting.
    It's down to these two from India's perspective.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    edited 11:35AM

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    That is not right imo. For one thing, photos of Trump and Epstein have been circulating forever. Basically they were thick as thieves but fell out over a property deal some years back.

    The point though is that they have not been circulating in MAGA circles.

    Trump hasn't been posting them on Truth Social

    Elon hasn't been pumping them on TwiX

    Joe Rogan hasn't been talking about them

    The only thing MAGA knew about Epstein (Pedo) is that trump was gonna release the files.

    And didn't.

    And now it seems they were best buds.
    If I've seen pictures without seeking them out, they were widely circulated, including on TwiX. Remember Donald Trump has been a celebrity in America far longer than he has been President, going back 30 or 40 years. Also, I'm fairly sure I've seen clips recently of Rogan talking about Trump and Epstein, although I do not follow his podcast.

    So to repeat, imo the reason for the Epstein file being withheld is not a link to Trump.
    Trump's pecadillos are well documented. Take the sealed file from 2015 involving someone who shares a first name with the model Jordan and a surname with Britain's worst Prime Minister ever, by a country mile.
    That name is a pseudonym anyway, and is published on Wikipedia, so you probably don't need to be coy.
    I just wanted to get the worst PM ever conundrum slotted in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233
    .

    I see Farage is tying himself again to Trump over recalling MPs for the state visit.

    Is that wise given UK peeps view of Trump?

    He's a crawling sort when it comes to Trump.
    A pitiful display.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,200
    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,016
    Regarding THAT photo. Does TSE secretly fantasize about Nigel?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I think they might just have this.
    The current pair look reasonably well set, and are getting the score ticking along again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233
    This is not a story I had been following, but looks worth watching.

    How not to fix an AI institute
    The Alan Turing Institute doubles down

    https://www.chalmermagne.com/p/how-not-to-fix-an-ai-institute
    Back in March, I published a long-read exploring what went wrong with the Alan Turing Institute, the UK’s national AI and data science centre. The piece argued that a lack of clear goals, poor leadership, and the decision to outsource its operation to a coalition of universities had created an underpowered body that advised the government poorly. The only functional part of the institute was the team focused on defence and national security. This team drew less on academia and the world of research grants, in favour of partnering directly with the national security community.

    After I published the piece, I received a range of responses. Many current and former members of Turing staff wrote in to express their wholehearted agreement, while a handful of academics accused me of being involved in a ‘technolibertarian’ conspiracy with Tony Blair. Jean Innes and Doug Gurr, respectively the CEO and Chair of the Turing, gave an interview that reaffirmed the institute’s present approach and didn’t address any of the criticisms. The story then went quiet.

    Suddenly on 3 July, Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology Peter Kyle sent a letter to Gurr, demanding widespread changes...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,452

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    To be honest he probably needs to say that as most of the public do not understand that very basic point
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980

    Regarding THAT photo. Does TSE secretly fantasize about Nigel?

    A pineapple pizza is heading in your direction.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,452
    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    Reform in Nottinghamshire are also doing the "stay in our 100 year old HQ thing", which in Notts' case will require £50m+ of maintenance and capex to keep it useable, and bring it up to scratch. The new one has already been built, and is central in the county..

    In Kent it is "bring childrens' homes back in house", plus stopping home improvements to save energy.

    I'm not sure they have numbers...
    The new one is not capable of hosting full council meetings nor does it have the offices for all the council workers who need to be in the office.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,201
    Yesss
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,690
    eek said:

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    That may be obvious to you but I suspect 50% of voters need that explained to them once in a while and it’s nice to see them taking 30 seconds to do so
    I think inflation is one of the most genuinely misunderstood concepts out there. Particularly the “a little bit of inflation is a good thing” element.

    Although I do wish news outfits were a bit clearer that inflation is the measure of how typical costs for people are rising, not that prices of everything are rising.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,247
    The last time I posted "England can't lose from here" they won the test.

    Maybe I should post it again...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,201
    eek said:

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    That may be obvious to you but I suspect 50% of voters need that explained to them once in a while and it’s nice to see them taking 30 seconds to do so
    I expect it is quite a bit more than 50%
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,425
    Remaining 2 batsmen to come average 4 and 6...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233
    Nigelb said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I think they might just have this.
    The current pair look reasonably well set, and are getting the score ticking along again.
    Yes !!
  • eekeek Posts: 30,652

    MattW said:

    stodge said:

    Yet Kent's new DOLGE identified just £40 million of potential savings from an expenditure of some £2.5 billion so there's hardly a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

    It's not totally clear (it's a speech, not a report with numbers that anyone else can check), but it looks like that's £40 million of capital spending being cut, so not even £40 million a year compared with £2.5 billion a year;

    https://www.lgcplus.com/politics/kent-leader-outlines-40m-of-potential-savings-11-07-2025/

    (And quite possibly less spending now leading to higher costs in the future.)

    Still, there's up to £180k to be saved by cutting various memberships.
    Reform in Nottinghamshire are also doing the "stay in our 100 year old HQ thing", which in Notts' case will require £50m+ of maintenance and capex to keep it useable, and bring it up to scratch. The new one has already been built, and is central in the county..

    In Kent it is "bring childrens' homes back in house", plus stopping home improvements to save energy.

    I'm not sure they have numbers...
    The new one is not capable of hosting full council meetings nor does it have the offices for all the council workers who need to be in the office.
    I would lay odds that the current office doesn’t have space for all the people who need to be there as well.

    Equally I would question if everyone actually needs to be in county hall. A couple of separate local offices with some form of customer care and hub for local planning officers and similar makes sense. Heck even a lot of national parks have multiple offices because you don’t want people local to x driving an hour each way to get to y.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233
    I think this is a parody account.

    "Supreme Leader Kim Jong-un has never visited Epstein's Island."
    https://x.com/DPRK_News/status/1944432464589410717
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,425
    Nigelb said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I think they might just have this.
    The current pair look reasonably well set, and are getting the score ticking along again.
    Thank you for your service...
  • eekeek Posts: 30,652

    eek said:

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    That may be obvious to you but I suspect 50% of voters need that explained to them once in a while and it’s nice to see them taking 30 seconds to do so
    I expect it is quite a bit more than 50%
    You are probably right but I wanted to pick a figure that didn’t feel too high yet got my point across
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,093
    edited 12:03PM
    Starmer and the word honest are non sequiturs
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233

    Starmerand tgecword homest are non sequiturs

    Wut ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,576
    edited 12:11PM

    eek said:

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    That may be obvious to you but I suspect 50% of voters need that explained to them once in a while and it’s nice to see them taking 30 seconds to do so
    I expect it is quite a bit more than 50%
    Definitely more than that among the MPs watching.....

    Remember how consistently they couldn't tell the difference between debt and deficit in the 2010s.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768

    Remaining 2 batsmen to come average 4 and 6...

    Still got Jajeda tho

    But I agree it's looking slightly promising
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,308
    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,576
    Leon said:

    Remaining 2 batsmen to come average 4 and 6...

    Still got Jajeda tho

    But I agree it's looking slightly promising
    Now we are f##ked....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,016
    Leon said:

    Remaining 2 batsmen to come average 4 and 6...

    Still got Jajeda tho

    But I agree it's looking slightly promising
    COME ON, INDI... er, I mean England!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,576
    edited 12:17PM
    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    What happens when you don't have a single person who has run or setup a business in your cabinet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,768

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I have missed every single wicket this morning, during 4 broief breaks - one bathroom, one delivery, one looking for phone, one "doing a quick tidy"

    I have literally been rivetted otherwise!

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,688
    England can't lose this from here
    *runs away, with vitesse*
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,576
    Leon said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I have missed every single wicket this morning, during 4 broief breaks - one bathroom, one delivery, one looking for phone, one "doing a quick tidy"

    I have literally been rivetted otherwise!

    If you don't mind can you lock your in the toilet from about 1.40pm for a couple of hours.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629

    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    What happens when you don't have a single person who has run or setup a business in your cabinet.
    Looking at it the other way, it's also ignorant of the fact that nearly everyone who own/runs a business has a payslip.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629

    Leon said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I have missed every single wicket this morning, during 4 broief breaks - one bathroom, one delivery, one looking for phone, one "doing a quick tidy"

    I have literally been rivetted otherwise!

    If you don't mind can you lock your in the toilet from about 1.40pm for a couple of hours.
    Think bigger. "For the love of God, Montresor!"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,576
    edited 12:23PM

    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    What happens when you don't have a single person who has run or setup a business in your cabinet.
    Looking at it the other way, it's also ignorant of the fact that nearly everyone who own/runs a business has a payslip.
    Well yes even one man bands normally who will tend to get most of their money vis dividends on the profit and are able to take company loans normally also draw a small salary as sensible reasons to do so.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,980
    Nigelb said:

    Starmerand tgecword homest are non sequiturs

    Wut ?
    Norwegian for Starmer is a liar? Perhaps we can blame autocorrect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233
    Leon said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I have missed every single wicket this morning, during 4 broief breaks - one bathroom, one delivery, one looking for phone, one "doing a quick tidy"

    I have literally been rivetted otherwise!

    Off you go, then.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,690
    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    Another stupid unforced error from them, that they can’t undo now. The “working people” thing was always going to tie them in knots. It continues to do so.

    Of course, the pledge about the specific taxes they wouldn’t touch was also a stupid hostage to fortune.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,629

    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    What happens when you don't have a single person who has run or setup a business in your cabinet.
    Looking at it the other way, it's also ignorant of the fact that nearly everyone who own/runs a business has a payslip.
    Well yes even one man bands normally who will tend to get most of their money vis dividends on the profit and are able to take company loans normally also draw a small salary as sensible reasons to do so.
    There is, IIRC, some legal stuff connected with being an employee of the company and not just owning X shares.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,233

    Nigelb said:

    Starmerand tgecword homest are non sequiturs

    Wut ?
    Norwegian for Starmer is a liar? Perhaps we can blame autocorrect.
    I originally read "tgecword" as TSE-c-word", and it almost made some kind of sense.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,932
    edited 12:29PM

    SkyNews's Ed Conway explaining that inflation is cumulative and a reduction in the rate of inflation doesn't mean prices are going down. Well blow me down, everyday is a school day on SkyNews. Back to CNN I think.

    To be honest he probably needs to say that as most of the public do not understand that very basic point
    I doubt if some things are capable of being heard, including the one here, that a reduction in the rate of inflation means rising prices. Another will be that a reduction in CO2 output means a rise in the amount of CO2 available to cause global warming; another is that reducing the deficit increases the debt. (Note that the reduction in CO2 output has not even occurred yet, after about 30 years of global attention. The rise is still rising.)

    It is partly the fact that it requires rational and accurate attention to the meaning of things for a few seconds; partly that the way the language of politicians is so distorted that its discourse tends deliberately to hide some very simple truths.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,698
    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    Well they are the people most likely to be avoiding tax. Those with payslips are on PAYE.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,147
    edited 12:31PM

    Leon said:

    There's a foolproof way to help England take another wicket: stop watching for a few minutes.

    I have missed every single wicket this morning, during 4 broief breaks - one bathroom, one delivery, one looking for phone, one "doing a quick tidy"

    I have literally been rivetted otherwise!

    If you don't mind can you lock your in the toilet from about 1.40pm for a couple of hours.
    Wouldn't a couple of minutes be better?

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 25,214
    MaxPB said:

    This "anyone with a payslip" comment is probably one of the most stupid things to come from Labour, even among everything else they've said. Did they simply forget about the millions of self employed people and business owners? Doesn't speak to their understanding of how the economy works and grows.

    I haven't seen the comment they've made but nobody should forget that Labour have hammered anyone with a payslip by jacking up both the rate of National Insurance and cutting the threshold it applies at.

    Anyone who pretends that Employers NIC doesn't affect Employees Wages is an ignoramus who doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Of course Employers take direct taxes on wages into account when setting wages.
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