Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
I disagree. I think the EU would have us back on the old terms, plus a big fat joining fee and a condition that if we left again it would cost a lot.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
I disagree. I think the EU would have us back on the old terms, plus a big fat joining fee and a condition that if we left again it would cost a lot.
That is simply not what this comprehensive poll is saying
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
I disagree. I think the EU would have us back on the old terms, plus a big fat joining fee and a condition that if we left again it would cost a lot.
That is simply not what this comprehensive poll is saying
I see where you're going wrong. You're assuming that the EU's decision-making process is influenced by public opinion.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
I disagree. I think the EU would have us back on the old terms, plus a big fat joining fee and a condition that if we left again it would cost a lot.
That is simply not what this comprehensive poll is saying
I see where you're going wrong. You're assuming that the EU's decision-making process is influenced by public opinion.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
Using the full accession rules has been obvious ever since Brexit. On the European side, you would have to assemble a coalition to override the current accession rules. This would require huge amounts of political capital.
That’s sad; Southend was my first solo landaway, when I was training for my PPL. The instructor sprung it on me, one evening after a lesson, when he left me with the plane and told me to go to Southend and come back, leaving me with the helpful advice that if I should see the sea under the plane, I have gone too far and should turn around.
Joining the Euro is not a requirement that has to be reached by a certain date . You can effectively kick the can down the road just as the UK had been doing for over a decade by making requirements yourself that you can never reach !
Joining the Euro is not a requirement that has to be reached by a certain date . You can effectively kick the can down the road just as the UK had been doing for over a decade by making requirements yourself that you can never reach !
Like Denmark and Sweden, both of which seem still to have krone
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
The Blessed Margaret on personal insults applies.
I wasn't aware I'd made a personal insult, but by all means infer one if you wish.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Joining the Euro is not a requirement that has to be reached by a certain date . You can effectively kick the can down the road just as the UK had been doing for over a decade by making requirements yourself that you can never reach !
Like Denmark and Sweden, both of which seem still to have krone
Trying to explain this though to the general public in a new EU ref campaign probably wouldn’t succeed as the right wing press and Reform Tories call foul .
People are right to be angry when they see others disrespecting our laws.
Now, those who try to make the crossing illegally will soon find themselves back where they started.
That is a real deterrent.
It's not remotely a deterrent. They will just come over again.
I don't think that is necessarily true. It's not free and the aslyos frequently drop their entire bundle on paying for a crossing.
Whether or not it's a deterrent will depend on the % returned. The pilot scheme will do FA in that respect, but scaled up an order of magnitude, it could be very effective.
Assuming it can be scaled up, it's actually a great deal for the UK. Not so much for France, and it's facing considerable opposition there (and elsewhere in the EU).
LuckyG is just allowing his spleen to dominate whatever reasoning he has.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
The Blessed Margaret on personal insults applies.
I wasn't aware I'd made a personal insult, but by all means infer one if you wish.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
I disagree. I think the EU would have us back on the old terms, plus a big fat joining fee and a condition that if we left again it would cost a lot.
Anybody who thinks the EU would have us back when Farage could pull us out when he wins the ensuing general election is in lala land. The EU would lock us in. Those terms would have to be supported by a referendum.
Good luck in locking us into the EU for ever. Try doing some polling on it.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
Allow each of the 4 nations to make their own decision with regards to Europe. The ultimate democracy.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would never return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed. Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed. Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed. Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would bnever return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
No not this time. But Brexiteers have also learnt no lessons on why their project failed so badly. And that point is more relevant to us now.
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed. Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed. Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
Welfare policy is a failure, immigration policy is a failure, HS2 is a failure, the NHS is a failure, the armed forces are a failure, the legal system is a failure, the policing system is a failure, the prisons system is a failure. For there to have been a single major policy initiative or project that our Governments and Civil Services in the past 20 years had made a success of would be a minor miracle.
The secret to stopping failing in any area is to solve the deeper problems that ail the body politic, precisely none of which would or ever could be solved by writing a cheque to get us back into the EU. If you doubt that, you can tell me whether the problems the UK hoped would be solved by joining the EEC were solved.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would never return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
I'd argue that the EU has learned a lesson from the last decade. Unfortunately for us, that lesson is that leaving is not a good idea. Few people in Europe, even on the nationalist right, are looking at the UK and saying "we'll have some of that".
Now, it doesn't matter if that lesson is correct or not, what does matter is that is has been learned.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
I think the misunderstanding is that the *EU* would see offering the standard terms as welcoming with open arms.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would bnever return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
No not this time. But Brexiteers have also learnt no lessons on why their project failed so badly. And that point is more relevant to us now.
That's not true - Brexit supporters have absolutely learned both the what and the who. And those learnings will become very relevant when this walking plague of a Government is happily behind us.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would never return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
I'd argue that the EU has learned a lesson from the last decade. Unfortunately for us, that lesson is that leaving is not a good idea. Few people in Europe, even on the nationalist right, are looking at the UK and saying "we'll have some of that".
I wonder how much of that is about the end-state and how much about the long and difficult process.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
You celebrate that just 13% of Britons think Brexit a success - to be less dreary? You don't think this should call for some reflection on the part of those promoting this failure?
This Labour Govt. barely has polling above 13% thinking it successful. I guess it is stinking out British politics?
Response just a teeny bit desperate methinks.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
How does that failure express itself? Many of us think it a failure in terms of lost opportunity - but would bnever return to what prevailed before.
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
No not this time. But Brexiteers have also learnt no lessons on why their project failed so badly. And that point is more relevant to us now.
That's not true - Brexit supporters have absolutely learned both the what and the who. And those learnings will become very relevant when this walking plague of a Government is happily behind us.
Complaining about driveway and saying "learnings" is an odd combo.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Where is the Austria - Lithuania border?
Austria - Slovenia border - it's too hot here to think correctly
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Occasionally, my A-level students ask me for vocational advice. They must look at me and think this bloke is doing all right for himself, he must know something. Not realising that I have spent my entire adult life falling arse backwards into money via various inheritances.
I always tell them to go to university, study something that interests them and don't waste their time, money or energy with alcohol.
I took only the first piece of that advice, and yes I'd probably have done well to have complied with all of it.
Didn't pick a subject that interested me. Didn't stay clear of excessive alcohol consumption.
Where were you when I needed you?
I wouldn't be advising anyone to go to university unless they were very clear where it was taking them. £50k plus of debt is a lot for dabbling in a subject because it interests you. If I had sons rather than daughters I'd be advising them to learn a trade. But it doesn't really seem a thing that girls do.
So, brass tacks, are you in actual fact planning to steer your kids away from uni?
This is what we're looking for, me and TUD and MexPete. An affluent, middle-class PBer who's walking the walk as well as talking the talk.
Could you be the one who steps up and delivers?
Well: 1: oldest child is pretty bright and considering medicine (specifically, child psychiatry). Medicine strikes me as a good career, and she seems to me likely to succeed, and there doesn't seem to me any alternative to that. So in her case, no I won't be seekinh to dissuade her. 2: but in the case of the other two, unless they can come up with a convincing life plan with a reason for taking on £50k of debt, yes, I'll be encouraging them to explore options at age 18 which aren't university. And definitely don't go to uni and study some generic subject like geography like I did: work out what career you want before committing to spending vast amounts on the necessary education. I'm doing this not out of idealism but because university is a very expensive and in most cases unnecessary luxury, and I would not expect it to make most people better off.
My steer on this however will only be light: by 18 they are almost adults and their life choices will be largely their own.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Needs to be done before we are down the toilet
I've always found the enthusiasm for the EU in Scotland to be a bit baffling. It's everything (and more) that Scotland has wrestled with with the UK.
Wales seemed to become an official 'twee place' under the EU.
Who knows. But first things first and repelling the Trump is the next order of business.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
The nuanced description goes something like this, I reckon.
The public have fairly solidly decided that Brexit has been a failure. (61-13 is pretty solid, is it not?) We're not yet ready to embrace any sort of course-change. It's too embarrassing and we're really hoping that there is a cake'n'eat it deal hiding somewhere. Meanwhile the figures from the continent are more Britain-friendly than I'd have expected, even for reverting to the 2016 status quo.
Whilst that continues, the pong will continue to stink out British politics, however much nobody really wants to talk about it.
Well that's your interpretation isn't it deary, which I'm not sure anyone familiar with your oeuvre would be shocked to read.
Better to keep circling the drain with all that sovereignty, aka USA butt licking, and do what Trump orders.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Do you realise how annoying it is when you post that 9 years on?
Why ?
Well it hasn't gone particularly to plan under Starmer has it, and as the dial has moved back towards rejoin (something I don't advocate by the way) it is rather unhelpful.
Have you read the Guardian's poll on this I published earlier?
Yes I have, and I wouldn't vote to rejoin and you don't get much more Bregret ridden (on behalf of the nation) than me. It is wholly different to saying the vote was an error which the majority now regret to demanding rejoin on vastly inferior terms.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Needs to be done before we are down the toilet
I've always found the enthusiasm for the EU in Scotland to be a bit baffling. It's everything (and more) that Scotland has wrestled with with the UK.
Wales seemed to become an official 'twee place' under the EU.
Who knows. But first things first and repelling the Trump is the next order of business.
It is nothing of the kind. The EU do not take all of a country's money and give them back pocket money.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Needs to be done before we are down the toilet
I've always found the enthusiasm for the EU in Scotland to be a bit baffling. It's everything (and more) that Scotland has wrestled with with the UK.
Wales seemed to become an official 'twee place' under the EU.
Who knows. But first things first and repelling the Trump is the next order of business.
Meanwhile the English government suck his butt as hard as they can, enthralled with him and the special relationship as he ridicules and shafts them.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
Especially since just a few weeks back I drove from Netherlands to Germany, and had to drive slowly past German customs officers who were pulling random vehicles aside, and had the same experience driving from Germany to Denmark - it is clearly possible to mount border checks within Schengen, if there is reason and will to do so.
I used to go with a client from Austria to Munich by car. We always went in a company car (with stickers) rather than the driver's personal one as he was Indian and they routinely stopped him. The car was bought after the second time he was stopped.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
Where is the Austria - Lithuania border?
I was going to say he was a bit out of date, but looking at some maps I think Austrian Poland and Galicia after the Partition only bordered other parts of Poland, not Lithuania. At one time the territory of the Teutonic Knights (and Terra Marianae ie Estonia) were considered a fief of the Holy Roman Empire, but of course the HRE ≠ Auatria
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
All politics is complicated. I wouldn't assume any such thing.
While it's impossible to see any obvious trigger for a rejoin movement at the moment, there's clearly significant sympathy for the idea, and circumstances change.
For example, hypothetically, what would be the political effects of a Russian defeat in Ukraine, followed by a Ukrainian application for membership ?
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
Is that your view on all polls
Any applications to rejoin will require EU individual states to agree the ascension
People use AI to apply (massively increasing the number of applications), companies use AI to filter the applications, so people have to apply for more roles to find a job, so.....
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
France had a referendum when we joined originally.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
In fairness, it is not any more remarkable than the lack of realism by most leavers in the run up to the Brexit vote and over the dozen or more years before that.
This is because both sides completely over estimate the significance of Brexit and our membership of the EU. Brexiteers seemed to think, or at least espoused a fantasy, that this this was going to solve our deep, underlying problems. Rejoiners are now in the same mode; these deep, underlying problems are magically going to be disappear if only we can get back to the promised land.
The reality is that for more than 30 years now we have run our economy with dangerously high levels of consumption, we have not invested enough, we have run a serious trade deficit which, cumulatively, has turned us into a debtor nation, we have encouraged high levels of low skilled, unproductive employment through a generous scheme of in work benefits, and we have relied on high levels of immigration to keep all this going.
Almost none of these problems have anything to do with Brexit. In theory, Brexit should have given us more flexibility to address these issues but the reality has been a serious disappointment. Both sides of this ever more tedious argument would rather pretend that this is what matters when it simply isn't. Our political class are simply incapable of addressing our real problems so they muck about with this instead. See also the SNP in Scotland pretending that independence is another magic key.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
I'm at a loss as to what the problem is with Schengen? Every argument I've see seems to be based on a misunderstanding over what Schengen actually is..
The bigger problem is joining the Euro
Sweden?
Do you think Brexit has been a success?
I don't think that (re)joining while signing up to Euro convergence terms you never intend to meet will continue to be an option.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
In fairness, it is not any more remarkable than the lack of realism by most leavers in the run up to the Brexit vote and over the dozen or more years before that.
This is because both sides completely over estimate the significance of Brexit and our membership of the EU. Brexiteers seemed to think, or at least espoused a fantasy, that this this was going to solve our deep, underlying problems. Rejoiners are now in the same mode; these deep, underlying problems are magically going to be disappear if only we can get back to the promised land.
The reality is that for more than 30 years now we have run our economy with dangerously high levels of consumption, we have not invested enough, we have run a serious trade deficit which, cumulatively, has turned us into a debtor nation, we have encouraged high levels of low skilled, unproductive employment through a generous scheme of in work benefits, and we have relied on high levels of immigration to keep all this going.
Almost none of these problems have anything to do with Brexit. In theory, Brexit should have given us more flexibility to address these issues but the reality has been a serious disappointment. Both sides of this ever more tedious argument would rather pretend that this is what matters when it simply isn't. Our political class are simply incapable of addressing our real problems so they muck about with this instead. See also the SNP in Scotland pretending that independence is another magic key.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
France had a referendum when we joined originally.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Occasionally, my A-level students ask me for vocational advice. They must look at me and think this bloke is doing all right for himself, he must know something. Not realising that I have spent my entire adult life falling arse backwards into money via various inheritances.
I always tell them to go to university, study something that interests them and don't waste their time, money or energy with alcohol.
I took only the first piece of that advice, and yes I'd probably have done well to have complied with all of it.
Didn't pick a subject that interested me. Didn't stay clear of excessive alcohol consumption.
Where were you when I needed you?
I wouldn't be advising anyone to go to university unless they were very clear where it was taking them. £50k plus of debt is a lot for dabbling in a subject because it interests you. If I had sons rather than daughters I'd be advising them to learn a trade. But it doesn't really seem a thing that girls do.
So, brass tacks, are you in actual fact planning to steer your kids away from uni?
This is what we're looking for, me and TUD and MexPete. An affluent, middle-class PBer who's walking the walk as well as talking the talk.
Could you be the one who steps up and delivers?
Well: 1: oldest child is pretty bright and considering medicine (specifically, child psychiatry). Medicine strikes me as a good career, and she seems to me likely to succeed, and there doesn't seem to me any alternative to that. So in her case, no I won't be seekinh to dissuade her. 2: but in the case of the other two, unless they can come up with a convincing life plan with a reason for taking on £50k of debt, yes, I'll be encouraging them to explore options at age 18 which aren't university. And definitely don't go to uni and study some generic subject like geography like I did: work out what career you want before committing to spending vast amounts on the necessary education. I'm doing this not out of idealism but because university is a very expensive and in most cases unnecessary luxury, and I would not expect it to make most people better off.
My steer on this however will only be light: by 18 they are almost adults and their life choices will be largely their own.
I will certainly suggest to my younger daughter, who is coming up to university, that she considered the overall plan. And that, if she chooses university, she looks at side qualifications.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
France had a referendum when we joined originally.
Occasionally, my A-level students ask me for vocational advice. They must look at me and think this bloke is doing all right for himself, he must know something. Not realising that I have spent my entire adult life falling arse backwards into money via various inheritances.
I always tell them to go to university, study something that interests them and don't waste their time, money or energy with alcohol.
I took only the first piece of that advice, and yes I'd probably have done well to have complied with all of it.
Didn't pick a subject that interested me. Didn't stay clear of excessive alcohol consumption.
Where were you when I needed you?
I wouldn't be advising anyone to go to university unless they were very clear where it was taking them. £50k plus of debt is a lot for dabbling in a subject because it interests you. If I had sons rather than daughters I'd be advising them to learn a trade. But it doesn't really seem a thing that girls do.
So, brass tacks, are you in actual fact planning to steer your kids away from uni?
This is what we're looking for, me and TUD and MexPete. An affluent, middle-class PBer who's walking the walk as well as talking the talk.
Could you be the one who steps up and delivers?
Well: 1: oldest child is pretty bright and considering medicine (specifically, child psychiatry). Medicine strikes me as a good career, and she seems to me likely to succeed, and there doesn't seem to me any alternative to that. So in her case, no I won't be seekinh to dissuade her. 2: but in the case of the other two, unless they can come up with a convincing life plan with a reason for taking on £50k of debt, yes, I'll be encouraging them to explore options at age 18 which aren't university. And definitely don't go to uni and study some generic subject like geography like I did: work out what career you want before committing to spending vast amounts on the necessary education. I'm doing this not out of idealism but because university is a very expensive and in most cases unnecessary luxury, and I would not expect it to make most people better off.
My steer on this however will only be light: by 18 they are almost adults and their life choices will be largely their own.
I will certainly suggest to my younger daughter, who is coming up to university, that she considered the overall plan. And that, if she chooses university, she looks at side qualifications.
Being a generalist used to be the advice e.g. do engineering even if you don't want to be an engineer as you can also become a stock trader, a computer programmer etc. Now I believe that is the opposite of what people should be advised to do. Being "ok" at coding is going to be a hard sell now.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Our net contribution?
Absolutely, plus Luke 15:7 would apply to the EU.
Plus with the inevitable march to a cashless society the pound in your pocket no longer exists, money is all about what's on your banking app, be it in Sterling or Euros.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Our net contribution?
Plus retrospectively taking on joint responsibility of the debt for their Covid response. Any country joining the EU now automatically takes on shared debt.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
In fairness, it is not any more remarkable than the lack of realism by most leavers in the run up to the Brexit vote and over the dozen or more years before that.
This is because both sides completely over estimate the significance of Brexit and our membership of the EU. Brexiteers seemed to think, or at least espoused a fantasy, that this this was going to solve our deep, underlying problems. Rejoiners are now in the same mode; these deep, underlying problems are magically going to be disappear if only we can get back to the promised land.
The reality is that for more than 30 years now we have run our economy with dangerously high levels of consumption, we have not invested enough, we have run a serious trade deficit which, cumulatively, has turned us into a debtor nation, we have encouraged high levels of low skilled, unproductive employment through a generous scheme of in work benefits, and we have relied on high levels of immigration to keep all this going.
Almost none of these problems have anything to do with Brexit. In theory, Brexit should have given us more flexibility to address these issues but the reality has been a serious disappointment. Both sides of this ever more tedious argument would rather pretend that this is what matters when it simply isn't. Our political class are simply incapable of addressing our real problems so they muck about with this instead. See also the SNP in Scotland pretending that independence is another magic key.
Of course politicians duck the fiscal issues. The Great British Public have made it very clear that they won't vote for them if they don't. After all, the key pledge of the 2016 campaign was to duck the fiscal issue a bit more.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
Is that your view on all polls
Any applications to rejoin will require EU individual states to agree the ascension
I don't want to rejoin. I just didn't want to leave. I ask you again has Brexit been a success? Use whatever metrics you believe to be suitable. Trade, immigration, defence, blue passports, queues at ports and airports, COVID response, whatever? To be fair Trump has brought us some Brexit benefits, but the whole picture remains a depressing one. Still as I said earlier, we are where we are.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Until a significant UK party actually backs rejoining, that is moot.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
What the Guardian poll does show is just how complex re-joining would be and it isn't just in the UK but with very different individual views of members states
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
English are too thick to know what is good for them, rather be bankrupt than do the right thing
You can only re-join the EU if the terms are acceptable and not just to the UK
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Why are you talking down the UK?
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Our net contribution?
Plus retrospectively taking on joint responsibility of the debt for their Covid response. Any country joining the EU now automatically takes on shared debt.
Amusingly we tell the scots they would have to take on debt when leaving - but we wouldn't pay out money to compenstate them taking on debt when joining. Same with the EU.
The lack of realism by Rejoiners in thinking we will be welcomed back into the EU with open arms is breathtaking.
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
Needs to be done before we are down the toilet
I've always found the enthusiasm for the EU in Scotland to be a bit baffling. It's everything (and more) that Scotland has wrestled with with the UK.
Wales seemed to become an official 'twee place' under the EU.
Who knows. But first things first and repelling the Trump is the next order of business.
If you think Scotland’s relationship with the EU would involve even more wrestling than the current one with the UK, no wonder you’re baffled.
‘Now is not the time for you to decide whether you want to continue your membership of this very special union, we’ll let you know when you have our permission.’
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
That is totally hypothetical. Will the voters of the 27 be asked to vote on our return?
Is that your view on all polls
Any applications to rejoin will require EU individual states to agree the ascension
I don't want to rejoin. I just didn't want to leave. I ask you again has Brexit been a success? Use whatever metrics you believe to be suitable. Trade, immigration, defence, blue passports, queues at ports and airports, COVID response, whatever? To be fair Trump has brought us some Brexit benefits, but the whole picture remains a depressing one. Still as I said earlier, we are where we are.
I voted remain but now we have left I simply do not want to rejoin
Whilst it hasn't been a success, certainly our Covid response was good but we are where we are and we need to accept that we cannot go back to how it was, rightly or wrongly
If the UK had never joined, would our relationship with the EU now be closer or looser than today?
If the UK had never joined it probably wouldn’t exist in the same form. Expansion after the end of the Cold War would have been more doubtful for one thing.
Yes 'Asked whether Britain should be allowed back in on the conditions it enjoyed when it left, however, including not having to adopt the euro currency and remaining outside the Schengen passport-free zone, the numbers changed significantly.
Barely one-fifth of respondents across the four biggest EU members, from 19% in Italy and France to 21% in Spain and 22% in Germany, felt the UK should be allowed to return to the bloc on those terms, with 58-62% saying it must be part of all main EU policy areas.
The pollster stress-tested western European attitudes by asking whether, if the UK was only willing to rejoin the EU on condition it could keep its old opt-outs, it should be allowed to. Some (33-36%) felt this would be acceptable, but more (41-52%) were opposed.
In the UK, while 54% of Britons supported rejoining the EU when asked the question in isolation, the figure fell to just 36% if rejoining meant giving up previous opt-outs. On those terms, 45% of Britons opposed renewed membership. The survey found that remain voters and those who backed more pro-EU parties would still broadly back rejoining if this meant adopting the euro and being part of the Schengen area, albeit at much lower rates.
Almost 60% of remain voters said they would support rejoining the EU without the previous opt-outs, down about 25 percentage points from the non-specific question, as would 58% of Labour voters (-23 points) and 49% of Liberal Democrats (-31 points). The percentage of Eurosceptic voters willing to rejoin without the previous special treatment more or less halved, falling from 21% to 10% among leave voters; 25% to 12% among Conservative voters, and 15% to 9% among Reform UK supporters.
The fifth continental European country polled, Denmark, proved an outlier. Respondents there were very keen (72%) for the UK to rejoin, and more enthusiastic than larger member states about it keeping its previous opt-outs (43%).'
Shows rejoining EFTA and the EEA may a realistic prospect in 10 or 20 years but not rejoining the full EU
Also shows the generational damage that your party’s frothy-mouthed obsession has done to our national prospects.
Leave 52% Remain 48%
Rejoin 61% Don’t rejoin 39%
🤫
Rejoin 36% Don't Rejoin 45% is what today's Guardian poll has it if Rejoin requires the Euro and Schengen
Which it wouldn't.
Have you read the Guardian's poll ?
58% to 62% of EU nations say the UK must be part of all the blocks policy areas !!!
If the UK ever rejoins the EU (and I hope it does), we would almost certainly not be required to join Schengen or the Euro. A poll isn't going to change that.
Then the EU will not agree much as you hope
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
It's a poll of hypotheticals. Until everyone knows what any rejoin terms might be these polls matter not a jot.
We are out, we have left. The end- for my lifetime anyway.
Comments
https://news.sky.com/story/fireball-at-southend-airport-after-small-plane-crashes-13396214
Maybe ignoring a poll you do not like !!!!
https://news.sky.com/story/fireball-at-southend-airport-after-small-plane-crashes-13396214
The pilot scheme will do FA in that respect, but scaled up an order of magnitude, it could be very effective.
Assuming it can be scaled up, it's actually a great deal for the UK. Not so much for France, and it's facing considerable opposition there (and elsewhere in the EU).
LuckyG is just allowing his spleen to dominate whatever reasoning he has.
Good luck in locking us into the EU for ever. Try doing some polling on it.
Serious point... Given approximately everyone does think Brexit a failure, how are we going to get out of the mess? That really isn't clear.
Got to say anyone who got the Austria Lithuania border during winter got a bad posting - it was at the top of a mountain pass.
(I might just be trolling)
The EU has learned no obvious lessons on why we turned out back on their Project. But I guess you think that is me being desperate....
"An aircraft has crashed at London Southend Airport, police have confirmed.
Essex Police said it was alerted to a 12-metre plane on fire at the site in Southend-on-Sea shortly before 16:00 BST on Sunday."
What is a 12 metre plane?
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ph-zaz
A complete failure to engage with the massive task ahead of convincing a) Brussels b) the EU capitals and c) the British electorate that it would be worth anybody's effort to reopen that wound.
The secret to stopping failing in any area is to solve the deeper problems that ail the body politic, precisely none of which would or ever could be solved by writing a cheque to get us back into the EU. If you doubt that, you can tell me whether the problems the UK hoped would be solved by joining the EEC were solved.
Now, it doesn't matter if that lesson is correct or not, what does matter is that is has been learned.
I'm reasonably certain a deal could be done, if there were a significant majority in favour of seeking such a thing. "Welcomed with open arms" isn't any sort of description of how such a thing might happen, though.
"These are the terms we give to everyone"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil–France_border
1: oldest child is pretty bright and considering medicine (specifically, child psychiatry). Medicine strikes me as a good career, and she seems to me likely to succeed, and there doesn't seem to me any alternative to that. So in her case, no I won't be seekinh to dissuade her.
2: but in the case of the other two, unless they can come up with a convincing life plan with a reason for taking on £50k of debt, yes, I'll be encouraging them to explore options at age 18 which aren't university. And definitely don't go to uni and study some generic subject like geography like I did: work out what career you want before committing to spending vast amounts on the necessary education.
I'm doing this not out of idealism but because university is a very expensive and in most cases unnecessary luxury, and I would not expect it to make most people better off.
My steer on this however will only be light: by 18 they are almost adults and their life choices will be largely their own.
Wales seemed to become an official 'twee place' under the EU.
Who knows. But first things first and repelling the Trump is the next order of business.
I very much doubt it will be on the political agenda for a long time
“Trump putting a 30% tariff on Mexico, your state's biggest trading partner. Will the tariffs hurt your constituents?” - Dana Bash
“It may, but I do support the president in this.” - Congressman Tony Gonzales
https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1944394546080542860
Certainty it seems EU nations are not willing to change their accession rules for those wanting to be members
Do you think Brexit has been a success?
I wouldn't assume any such thing.
While it's impossible to see any obvious trigger for a rejoin movement at the moment, there's clearly significant sympathy for the idea, and circumstances change.
For example, hypothetically, what would be the political effects of a Russian defeat in Ukraine, followed by a Ukrainian application for membership ?
Any applications to rejoin will require EU individual states to agree the ascension
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/jul/13/student-debt-graduates-share-job-hunting-woes-ai-fallout
People use AI to apply (massively increasing the number of applications), companies use AI to filter the applications, so people have to apply for more roles to find a job, so.....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_French_European_Communities_enlargement_referendum
This is because both sides completely over estimate the significance of Brexit and our membership of the EU. Brexiteers seemed to think, or at least espoused a fantasy, that this this was going to solve our deep, underlying problems. Rejoiners are now in the same mode; these deep, underlying problems are magically going to be disappear if only we can get back to the promised land.
The reality is that for more than 30 years now we have run our economy with dangerously high levels of consumption, we have not invested enough, we have run a serious trade deficit which, cumulatively, has turned us into a debtor nation, we have encouraged high levels of low skilled, unproductive employment through a generous scheme of in work benefits, and we have relied on high levels of immigration to keep all this going.
Almost none of these problems have anything to do with Brexit. In theory, Brexit should have given us more flexibility to address these issues but the reality has been a serious disappointment. Both sides of this ever more tedious argument would rather pretend that this is what matters when it simply isn't. Our political class are simply incapable of addressing our real problems so they muck about with this instead. See also the SNP in Scotland pretending that independence is another magic key.
The EU needs us more than we need them and rejoining will be the easiest deal in history.
Nail biter tomorrow morning.
Rahul still there, though.
Plus with the inevitable march to a cashless society the pound in your pocket no longer exists, money is all about what's on your banking app, be it in Sterling or Euros.
https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1943871761658835148
‘Now is not the time for you to decide whether you want to continue your membership of this very special union, we’ll let you know when you have our permission.’
Whilst it hasn't been a success, certainly our Covid response was good but we are where we are and we need to accept that we cannot go back to how it was, rightly or wrongly
We are out, we have left. The end- for my lifetime anyway.