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Why you need an exorcist to deal with Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,569
edited July 13 in General
Why you need an exorcist to deal with Boris Johnson – politicalbetting.com

Face of Boris Johnson spotted on a fruit as woman wanted to 'call an exorcist' https://t.co/WhseyfLu5d pic.twitter.com/dbd7EbxVRm

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,734

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    I sympathise greatly. I loathe the heat.

    Also, good morning, everyone.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    Third. Good morning all.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,951
    Awesome f*****' thread header!

    Although any facial depiction that looks like a Cabbage Patch doll could be mistaken for Boris Johnson.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,212

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    It is far, far too warm.

    It's on days like this that I ponder the merits of aircon.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,478

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Read that as "struggling to wear a thread" and was thinking maybe too much info...
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,478
    Refreshingly chilly in Essex this morning
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,212
    On topic, he's done a plum job at last.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,212

    Awesome f*****' thread header!

    Although any facial depiction that looks like a Cabbage Patch doll could be mistaken for Boris Johnson.

    Reminded me of this famous artwork:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecce_Homo_(García_Martínez_and_Giménez)

    (Boris Johnson should not be otherwise mistaken for Jesus.)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,732
    edited July 13
    ydoethur said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    It is far, far too warm.

    It's on days like this that I ponder the merits of aircon.
    I've got aircon, I've got Dyson bladeless fans*, it's the bit when I have to go out that's the problem. Yesterday when I left the cinema, the few hundred metres I walked to the car I felt I was being punched by the heat.

    The car had been parked out in the heat for four hours, which reminds me I need to write a letter of complaint to Mercedes about their heat resistant steering wheels.

    Today I shall be staying at home watching the cricket and Preston v Liverpool.

    *Bought at really cheap prices from a website called Only Fans (google it).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    MattW said:

    Third. Good morning all.

    Is @TSE on holiday in Spain?

    Here it's 16C. Yesterday evening it was warm until quite late - still 24C at 8pm at the start of my constitutional, which then went down slowly. Umpteen people were out walking the dogs, including parents with young children, and a lovey-dovey young couple on the Friendship Bench. And plenty of scuffling in the field margins - teenage boys being teenage boys and trying to impress teenage girls, I guess.

    Since the header is off topic already, I'll make a couple off topic observations myself before an early walk this morning to Newstead Abbey.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    edited July 13
    ydoethur said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    It is far, far too warm.

    It's on days like this that I ponder the merits of aircon.
    Climate Change matters ... as does net zero. We need to ignore the nutters.

    I think we will see reverse ferrets if the line is held, as we have already seen from Andrea Jenkyns in her support of green industry in Lincs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,237
    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,732
    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,702
    edited July 13

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, and at the "heatwave" temps in this country are adequate unless you're living in a greenhouse.

    Also the white noise they make can drown some of the more annoying ambient sounds out.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,622
    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    BEV is going to be the default choice of everyone soon enough, driven by China. They are a large, quickly growing and very important market and they fucking love BEVs. There is no cultural and reactionary attachment to the Otto Cycle such as pertains in the west to hinder their adoption.

    The OEMs need a BEV heavy line up to compete in the Chinese market and the Chinese OEMs are starting to dominate in other markets with their own BEV heavy line ups. The direction of travel is one way and it's going to accelerate despite the opinions of gammons who wear their ignorance with the conspicuous hubris of a Pride of Britain awardee.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,237
    edited July 13

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,205
    edited July 13
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,008
    Cloudy and cool in outer east London right now.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,608
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    BEV is going to be the default choice of everyone soon enough, driven by China. They are a large, quickly growing and very important market and they fucking love BEVs. There is no cultural and reactionary attachment to the Otto Cycle such as pertains in the west to hinder their adoption.

    The OEMs need a BEV heavy line up to compete in the Chinese market and the Chinese OEMs are starting to dominate in other markets with their own BEV heavy line ups. The direction of travel is one way and it's going to accelerate despite the opinions of gammons who wear their ignorance with the conspicuous hubris of a Pride of Britain awardee.
    There is a basic stupidity at play.

    Would like to have a car thats easier to drive? Costs buttons to run and needs minimal maintenance? That doesn't have any of the parts that broke on all your previous cars?

    Yes!

    Its an EV.

    Eww no, they're rubbish, my mate said so.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,875
    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,060
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,060
    Fishing said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, and at the "heatwave" temps in this country are adequate unless you're living in a greenhouse.

    Also the white noise they make can drown some of the more annoying ambient sounds out.
    I picked up one of these a couple of years ago - and it's been a godsend (especially for sleeping as it's near-silent).

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08QHS5ZRJ?th=1

    Now that I look again it's gone up quite a bit in price since I got it. But then what hasn't....
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,198
    edited July 13
    So, as promised the good weather you have has now arrived right up here:



    There are no trees nor clouds on this walk, but it would be churlish to complain...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,286
    HYUFD said:

    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/

    Britain’s leading debauched classicist cosplays Tiberius.
  • franklynfranklyn Posts: 328
    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,172
    HYUFD said:

    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/

    I don't want to watch that moment, thank you all the same.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,137
    HYUFD said:

    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/

    You say raucous, I say twattish.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,286
    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    What about those of us who would rather put Tabasco in their eyes than pay a sub or give their info to the Tele?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,732

    HYUFD said:

    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/

    Britain’s leading debauched classicist cosplays Tiberius.
    Tiberius divorced his wife and married his step-sister.

    Even Boris johnson's private life isn't that colourful.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    edited July 13
    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
    Is not Scotland a law unto itself here?

    AFAIK ( Mr Tesla may know more, as he will have researched the inferior Plan B ) Scotland has a larger selection of Local Authority provided and free points, but it has been in decline, and (I presume) funding is either from Holyrood, or via the Block Grant or the Barnet process.

    (I have no idea how much has been funded in England, but I do try and keep an eye on moved to obstruct our pavements, which are pedestrian spaces, with charging cable trip hazards.)

    How big are the wheelchair spaces on all those electric buses?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,655

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    What about those of us who would rather put Tabasco in their eyes than pay a sub or give their info to the Tele?
    Here is a free link to the Telegraph article on the forthcoming antisemitism report.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/978685d95bdcf29c
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,732
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,400

    HYUFD said:

    Face doesn't really look like Boris.

    Meanwhile the Johnsons are having a raucous holiday in Capri

    "Watch moment Boris Johnson swigs fizz from bottle & sings on table during boozy night at celeb holiday haunt | The Sun" https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35817411/boris-johnson-carrie-baby-champagne-italian-nightclub/

    You say raucous, I say twattish.
    You can maybe get away with raucous up until about aged 26.

    Boris is 61.

    He is a decorum-free zone. So, yep, twattish.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214
    Fishing said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, .
    Aircon via air sources heat pumps does not "dry the air out".
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    What about those of us who would rather put Tabasco in their eyes than pay a sub or give their info to the Tele?
    I can give an inside report, since a very kind PB-er had a Telegraph gift subscription available when we turned off links to archive.whatever, and I am saving up a bit of transfer donation for PB's next fundraiser when it happens.

    The early part of the thread I saw is full of comments about "a certain community" and all the other usual stuff. Very few seem to have read the "middle class" bit of the headline.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,116

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    BEV is going to be the default choice of everyone soon enough, driven by China. They are a large, quickly growing and very important market and they fucking love BEVs. There is no cultural and reactionary attachment to the Otto Cycle such as pertains in the west to hinder their adoption.

    The OEMs need a BEV heavy line up to compete in the Chinese market and the Chinese OEMs are starting to dominate in other markets with their own BEV heavy line ups. The direction of travel is one way and it's going to accelerate despite the opinions of gammons who wear their ignorance with the conspicuous hubris of a Pride of Britain awardee.
    There is a basic stupidity at play.

    Would like to have a car thats easier to drive? Costs buttons to run and needs minimal maintenance? That doesn't have any of the parts that broke on all your previous cars?

    Yes!

    Its an EV.

    Eww no, they're rubbish, my mate said so.
    Partly Douglas Adams's Third Law of New Technology;

    Anything invented after you’re thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

    Partly the refusal of Generation Boomer to let go of the cultural baton.

    Partly the self-radicalisation doom loop of niche media like newspapers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,286

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    What about those of us who would rather put Tabasco in their eyes than pay a sub or give their info to the Tele?
    Here is a free link to the Telegraph article on the forthcoming antisemitism report.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/978685d95bdcf29c
    Thanks.

    'The review was co-authored by Lord Mann, the Government’s anti-Semitism adviser, and Dame Penny Mordaunt, the former defence secretary.

    Writing in The Telegraph, they said they had been “stunned into silence” by the evidence gathered during six months of research for the Commission on Anti-Semitism.'

    Would that it were so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    edited July 13

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    That could be a fortunate get off, especially that it was under 75. I hope it was in a low risk area - eg motorway roadworks.

    Guidelines for 61-75 are: "Disqualify 7 – 28 days OR 4 – 6 points".

    I had that on one or two occasions before I adapted to the move from a Vauxhall Corsa to a big, quiet diesel.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,643

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    I've seen that last point a lot. Any criticism of Israel's Government is treated as antisemitism no matter how carefully worded the attack is - because it instantly forces the person making the comment to go on the offensive.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,060
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
    Is not Scotland a law unto itself here?

    AFAIK ( Mr Tesla may know more, as he will have researched the inferior Plan B ) Scotland has a larger selection of Local Authority provided and free points, but it has been in decline, and (I presume) funding is either from Holyrood, or via the Block Grant or the Barnet process.

    (I have no idea how much has been funded in England, but I do try and keep an eye on moved to obstruct our pavements, which are pedestrian spaces, with charging cable trip hazards.)

    How big are the wheelchair spaces on all those electric buses?
    Not really sure. I don't drive and don't use the bus very often. It just seemed like a missed opportunity when they were rewiring along the streets.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,608
    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
    Is not Scotland a law unto itself here?

    AFAIK ( Mr Tesla may know more, as he will have researched the inferior Plan B ) Scotland has a larger selection of Local Authority provided and free points, but it has been in decline, and (I presume) funding is either from Holyrood, or via the Block Grant or the Barnet process.

    (I have no idea how much has been funded in England, but I do try and keep an eye on moved to obstruct our pavements, which are pedestrian spaces, with charging cable trip hazards.)

    How big are the wheelchair spaces on all those electric buses?
    Councils are struggling to do basic services, so I have no surprise that there is no cash for more expensive charging lampposts.

    As for why they are struggling, I have the answer. Grit Bin removal row here in the shire, SNP councillor trying to score points, I noted the £34m a year not provided to the shire by Holyrood because funding is prioritised to the central belt, and he posted an "info"graphic that Westminster is underfunding Holyrood.

    So if Aberdeenshire are pulling grit bins, and Glasgow aren't installing charging posts, the fault lies with the English. Hi.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,205
    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    They were also under the misapprehension of generous government subsidies for electric vehicles. Remaining subsidies are limited and targeted now. Private buyers of EVs don't see much benefit.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,643

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
    Is not Scotland a law unto itself here?

    AFAIK ( Mr Tesla may know more, as he will have researched the inferior Plan B ) Scotland has a larger selection of Local Authority provided and free points, but it has been in decline, and (I presume) funding is either from Holyrood, or via the Block Grant or the Barnet process.

    (I have no idea how much has been funded in England, but I do try and keep an eye on moved to obstruct our pavements, which are pedestrian spaces, with charging cable trip hazards.)

    How big are the wheelchair spaces on all those electric buses?
    Councils are struggling to do basic services, so I have no surprise that there is no cash for more expensive charging lampposts.

    As for why they are struggling, I have the answer. Grit Bin removal row here in the shire, SNP councillor trying to score points, I noted the £34m a year not provided to the shire by Holyrood because funding is prioritised to the central belt, and he posted an "info"graphic that Westminster is underfunding Holyrood.

    So if Aberdeenshire are pulling grit bins, and Glasgow aren't installing charging posts, the fault lies with the English. Hi.
    Hey, English councils are also chronically underfunded and have been for 15 years so I don't know why it's only suddenly an issue in Aberdeenshire...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,608

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,602
    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    I have been of the opinion that all subsidies should have been moved to cheaper EVs - say, sub £35k new - several years back.

    Subsidies for charging points need to be limited/scaled by actual availability (too many broken), price charged & capability of power delivery. An ease of use metric is also required.

    It is still the case that Tesla are so far in front on charging, that it’s barely a contest. The other systems are more expensive and have most of the features of the less useful parking apps.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,922

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,608
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    The council have been doing a rolling replacement of lampposts and lights in this bit of Glasgow - which I would have thought was a good opportunity to fit some charging points for the tenements. But no sign of any.
    Is not Scotland a law unto itself here?

    AFAIK ( Mr Tesla may know more, as he will have researched the inferior Plan B ) Scotland has a larger selection of Local Authority provided and free points, but it has been in decline, and (I presume) funding is either from Holyrood, or via the Block Grant or the Barnet process.

    (I have no idea how much has been funded in England, but I do try and keep an eye on moved to obstruct our pavements, which are pedestrian spaces, with charging cable trip hazards.)

    How big are the wheelchair spaces on all those electric buses?
    Councils are struggling to do basic services, so I have no surprise that there is no cash for more expensive charging lampposts.

    As for why they are struggling, I have the answer. Grit Bin removal row here in the shire, SNP councillor trying to score points, I noted the £34m a year not provided to the shire by Holyrood because funding is prioritised to the central belt, and he posted an "info"graphic that Westminster is underfunding Holyrood.

    So if Aberdeenshire are pulling grit bins, and Glasgow aren't installing charging posts, the fault lies with the English. Hi.
    Hey, English councils are also chronically underfunded and have been for 15 years so I don't know why it's only suddenly an issue in Aberdeenshire...
    It isn't suddenly an issue - the cuts get worse every year. Council tax up 10% this year, and next year the cuts needed will be the biggest yet. Central government stopped properly funding councils in England as a policy when Osborne was chancellor. In Scotland the government spend lots of things like free bus passes but rig the funding formula so that their supporters get the cash and the far away places get less.

    Part of why this country is so broken is that council services are crumbling away. Unlike in other parts of the public sector there isn't much that can be saved through efficiencies or structure - that's already happened. So either we fund things or communities get left to their own devices at higher cost.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,286
    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
    You're saying TSE is looking for an excuse to hate Jews?
    Fuxake.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,655
    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, .
    Aircon via air sources heat pumps does not "dry the air out".
    I recently bought one of those Ranvoo neck aircon gadgets. It is very effective at cooling the neck and therefore brain and body but like all aircon, it vents hot air, in this case onto my ears.

    For £200, I'd not recommend it for that reason. Cheaper would be some sort of frozen tie-like material provided you do not wrap it all the way round and risk strangulation.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,602

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    When I worked for an oil company, we had a green division.

    Some might say it was green washing - but the people in it, didn’t take that view. At one point the vast majority of solar cells made in Europe were ours.

    Every time we talked to the car manufacturers, they would say “the real, working hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a year or two. As are the electric cars.”

    Always the future.

    And the government would need to spend trillions on the refuelling network. Of course.

    Despite all that has followed, the Tesla supercharger network is still a thing of genius. Certainly compared to the competition.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,608

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    When I worked for an oil company, we had a green division.

    Some might say it was green washing - but the people in it, didn’t take that view. At one point the vast majority of solar cells made in Europe were ours.

    Every time we talked to the car manufacturers, they would say “the real, working hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a year or two. As are the electric cars.”

    Always the future.

    And the government would need to spend trillions on the refuelling network. Of course.

    Despite all that has followed, the Tesla supercharger network is still a thing of genius. Certainly compared to the competition.
    Hydrogen still gets clung to by EV haters. They are the only people still clinging to it...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,922

    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
    You're saying TSE is looking for an excuse to hate Jews?
    Fuxake.
    Because there is one Jewish state in the world. Because whatever anyone thinks of the actions of the Israeli government, people will still support the right of that country to exist.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,194
    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1944322611715981661

    People are right to be angry when they see others disrespecting our laws.

    Now, those who try to make the crossing illegally will soon find themselves back where they started.

    That is a real deterrent.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,205
    Someone is losing their marbles ...

    Britain should keep the Elgin Marbles.

    Those trying to undermine our national culture should be taken on, not appeased.


    https://x.com/trussliz/status/1943622892543005181

    I hadn't realised stealing other nations' heritage was our national culture. But this needs to stop. It's a Disgrace.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,706
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,214

    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    BEV is going to be the default choice of everyone soon enough, driven by China. They are a large, quickly growing and very important market and they fucking love BEVs. There is no cultural and reactionary attachment to the Otto Cycle such as pertains in the west to hinder their adoption.

    The OEMs need a BEV heavy line up to compete in the Chinese market and the Chinese OEMs are starting to dominate in other markets with their own BEV heavy line ups. The direction of travel is one way and it's going to accelerate despite the opinions of gammons who wear their ignorance with the conspicuous hubris of a Pride of Britain awardee.
    There is a basic stupidity at play.

    Would like to have a car thats easier to drive? Costs buttons to run and needs minimal maintenance? That doesn't have any of the parts that broke on all your previous cars?

    Yes!

    Its an EV.

    Eww no, they're rubbish, my mate said so.
    There is also stupidity in those richer people with EVs who assume that everyone can afford one that does the tasks they need the car to do, and can charge them easily at home (or cheaply ay a public charger...)

    We'll get there, but we're not there yet.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,205
    edited July 13
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    This feels right. I do think authorities, car manufacturers and car park owners together need to sort out public chargers for the large minority of users and journeys that need them. But it should be a solvable problem.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 15,077
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
    You're saying TSE is looking for an excuse to hate Jews?
    Fuxake.
    Because there is one Jewish state in the world. Because whatever anyone thinks of the actions of the Israeli government, people will still support the right of that country to exist.

    People, however, do not support a right for Israel to annex territory and commit what looks close to genocide.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,922

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
    You're saying TSE is looking for an excuse to hate Jews?
    Fuxake.
    Because there is one Jewish state in the world. Because whatever anyone thinks of the actions of the Israeli government, people will still support the right of that country to exist.

    People, however, do not support a right for
    Israel to annex territory and commit what
    looks close to genocide.
    And you shouldn’t assume people waving Israeli flags support such actions any more than we should assume anyone displaying the Palestinian flag supports 7 October.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,214
    We went to London yesterday; an early start as Mrs J had a run in the Olympic Park starting at 09.30. After that, we went down to my old haunting grounds of Greenwich and the Isle of Dogs.

    A few notes: there was not much litter in the areas we went. We waited a maximum of three minutes for every train, bar the first one, which we arrived early for. The Lizzie line is a really useful route wrt connections. London was packed but happy in the sun. We broke the cardinal rule and chatted to strangers on the tube.

    Most of all, despite what some on here claim, London was wonderful.

    (Me and my son also went up the Cutty Sark's rigging, which you can now climb. It was fairly expensive, but great fun and well worth doing for the views and experience.)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,845
    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,737
    There’s a bigger story in the Guardian. The total collapse of entry level graduate jobs. It’s mayhem out there

    Universities are doomed. We need to tell our kids to go elsewhere, learn a trade, don’t take on all that debt


  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,845

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, .
    Aircon via air sources heat pumps does not "dry the air out".
    I recently bought one of those Ranvoo neck aircon gadgets. It is very effective at cooling the neck and therefore brain and body but like all aircon, it vents hot air, in this case onto my ears.

    For £200, I'd not recommend it for that reason. Cheaper would be some sort of frozen tie-like material provided you do not wrap it all the way round and risk strangulation.
    This is along the lines of your suggested invention. It's okay.

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256580895671
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,205
    edited July 13
    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
    Most people don't live in areas with £2m+ houses. That's your 70%.

    Also should note car owners are more likely to live in houses with driveways than the population as a whole.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,856

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    Not everyone can afford a Tesla. If you get an electric Corsa, you get 180 miles and in the real world, probably less. If you are in the second hand car market you are even more constrained, as older cars don't go as far.

    Unfortunately manufacturers seem more intent on putting in useless bells and whistles rather than a bigger battery. I have been looking at second hand EVs and often it goes basic model - fancy model - fancy model with longer range, I want basic model with longer range.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,237
    edited July 13

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
    But it's also true that 23% of households don't have a car at all, and in cities that can be as high as 80%. The reason that it's causing such anxiety is because our media is heavily influenced by people who live in cities and can afford to drive a car - people like me.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,845
    edited July 13
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
    But it's also true that 25% of households don't have a car at all, and in cities that can be as high as 80%. The reason that it's causing such anxiety is because our media is heavily influenced by people who live in cities and can afford to drive a car - people like me.
    54% of London households have a car. That's a majority!

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,008
    edited July 13
    Dura_Ace said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    BEV is going to be the default choice of everyone soon enough, driven by China. They are a large, quickly growing and very important market and they fucking love BEVs. There is no cultural and reactionary attachment to the Otto Cycle such as pertains in the west to hinder their adoption.

    The OEMs need a BEV heavy line up to compete in the Chinese market and the Chinese OEMs are starting to dominate in other markets with their own BEV heavy line ups. The direction of travel is one way and it's going to accelerate despite the opinions of gammons who wear their ignorance with the conspicuous hubris of a Pride of Britain awardee.
    Lots of Chinese BYD buses in London these days. Single- and double-deckers.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,856
    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
    On the other hand, I live in a small block of 6 flats in Hampshire, 3 of the 6 have chargers (and a 4th manages hanging a cable out of the window). The rest could have them. We park near the flats but installing armour cable when laying the drive shouldn't cost much, when we relaud the drive we installed passive provision to the garages in a block very cheaply.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242

    We went to London yesterday; an early start as Mrs J had a run in the Olympic Park starting at 09.30. After that, we went down to my old haunting grounds of Greenwich and the Isle of Dogs.

    A few notes: there was not much litter in the areas we went. We waited a maximum of three minutes for every train, bar the first one, which we arrived early for. The Lizzie line is a really useful route wrt connections. London was packed but happy in the sun. We broke the cardinal rule and chatted to strangers on the tube.

    Most of all, despite what some on here claim, London was wonderful.

    (Me and my son also went up the Cutty Sark's rigging, which you can now climb. It was fairly expensive, but great fun and well worth doing for the views and experience.)

    Glad it was a enjoyable. How long did you get up there?

    They seem to be trying to recruit members for the Greenwich Museums :smile: :

    Climb the rigging: "Adult: £60 | Child (10-17): £49 | Student: £55, Members: £30. "

    Following the Join Now link:

    "Membership: Single Membership £65, Joint Membership £85, Family Membership (1+4 sprogs) £75, (2+4 sprogs) £95". +£10 for Credit / Debit card.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,211
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    This feels right. I do think authorities, car manufacturers and car park owners together need to sort out public chargers for the large minority of users and journeys that need them. But it should be a solvable problem.
    "While the overall percentage for Great Britain is 65%, there are regional variations. For example, England (excluding London) has around 68% with off-street parking, while Wales is at 75%, and Scotland at 63%, according to the RAC Foundation. London has a significantly lower percentage at 44%, according to the RAC Foundation. " Gemini
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242

    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
    On the other hand, I live in a small block of 6 flats in Hampshire, 3 of the 6 have chargers (and a 4th manages hanging a cable out of the window). The rest could have them. We park near the flats but installing armour cable when laying the drive shouldn't cost much, when we relaud the drive we installed passive provision to the garages in a block very cheaply.
    My main objection to the politics I hear around this is the London-centric focus. But that's a problem which has been dominant since about 1920-1950, and still needs properly to be addressed.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,643
    Utterly off topic but some on here will appreciate this.

    For anyone who has ever done any programming - a quiz to reveal the utter insanity of Javascript's Date function... https://jsdate.wtf/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,845
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
    On the other hand, I live in a small block of 6 flats in Hampshire, 3 of the 6 have chargers (and a 4th manages hanging a cable out of the window). The rest could have them. We park near the flats but installing armour cable when laying the drive shouldn't cost much, when we relaud the drive we installed passive provision to the garages in a block very cheaply.
    My main objection to the politics I hear around this is the London-centric focus. But that's a problem which has been dominant since about 1920-1950, and still needs properly to be addressed.
    If you consider addressing a major problem for 30% of the country a non runner because it helps Londoners we are not going to make much progress.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,643

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    Not everyone can afford a Tesla. If you get an electric Corsa, you get 180 miles and in the real world, probably less. If you are in the second hand car market you are even more constrained, as older cars don't go as far.

    Unfortunately manufacturers seem more intent on putting in useless bells and whistles rather than a bigger battery. I have been looking at second hand EVs and often it goes basic model - fancy model - fancy model with longer range, I want basic model with longer range.
    Car batteries are constrained by the space available for said batteries and Stellantis created a design that only copes with a 50kwh. Add on an relatively inefficient motor and you get a 180kwh range.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    edited July 13
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
    But it's also true that 25% of households don't have a car at all, and in cities that can be as high as 80%. The reason that it's causing such anxiety is because our media is heavily influenced by people who live in cities and can afford to drive a car - people like me.
    Notes for Future Reference: @Eabhal claims * that the Daily Mail is his personal fault.

    * This note incorporates Daily Mail news values.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    It's complicated, as you say, and ugly.

    Leigh is right that the Israeli government has, I think deliberately, blurred the line between criticising their actions and antisemitism.

    But equally, antisemites have co-opted opposition to Israeli actions for their own purposes.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,237
    edited July 13

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
    But it's also true that 25% of households don't have a car at all, and in cities that can be as high as 80%. The reason that it's causing such anxiety is because our media is heavily influenced by people who live in cities and can afford to drive a car - people like me.
    54% of London households have a car. That's a majority!

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf
    That makes sense - even in London, only 40% of households live in flats*. The difficulty in London is so much of the housing stock in terraces, which I guess means the number of households who have cars but don't have drives is much higher than elsewhere.

    *Absolutely extraordinary if you consider that in Germany 65% of households in live in flats. No wonder we have such pressure on the green belt as we refuse to build upward even in our biggest city.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,856

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    Not everyone can afford a Tesla. If you get an electric Corsa, you get 180 miles and in the real world, probably less. If you are in the second hand car market you are even more constrained, as older cars don't go as far.

    Unfortunately manufacturers seem more intent on putting in useless bells and whistles rather than a bigger battery. I have been looking at second hand EVs and often it goes basic model - fancy model - fancy model with longer range, I want basic model with longer range.
    On the other hand, this popped up on my X feed, there are some apparent bargains if you are prepared to go with the high mileage. https://x.com/graeme_cobb/status/1943699333070684612?t=WS6CZpDe7W3yNQ7bPru-dw&s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    They were also under the misapprehension of generous government subsidies for electric vehicles. Remaining subsidies are limited and targeted now. Private buyers of EVs don't see much benefit.
    There a very large benefit for company EVs - but I think that will soon be phased out.

    What government needs to do is recognise we missed the manufacturing opportunity by inaction a decade or more back.

    If that means attracting Chinese manufacturers over here (particularly batteries), so be it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,108

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    Not everyone can afford a Tesla. If you get an electric Corsa, you get 180 miles and in the real world, probably less. If you are in the second hand car market you are even more constrained, as older cars don't go as far.

    Unfortunately manufacturers seem more intent on putting in useless bells and whistles rather than a bigger battery. I have been looking at second hand EVs and often it goes basic model - fancy model - fancy model with longer range, I want basic model with longer range.
    You should look at something like a 3 year old eniro. Mine is 5 years old and still has the same range as new, 270 miles in the summer, 240 in the winter and is both the quickest and smoothest car that I have owned.

    £15000 would get you a good one, still with 4 years manufacturer's warranty.


  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242
    edited July 13
    With respect to Israel and Gaza, here is a short interview between the Director of the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF, who provide the food distribution points where reports are that the IDF are shooting people), Johnnie Moore, and the host on the USA's major evangelical TV network.

    Wearing other hats, Moore is one of the Evangelical fixers around Trump.

    It illustrates how totally different are perspectives of different groups and different places. The values expressed are very much "from one view.

    The interview is with CBN - Christian Broadcasting Network, on a programme called the 700 Club, which some may remember as a kind of "News & Views" programme which is their headline programme, and has been around since 1966.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENQPq1ndO9o

    (Updated)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,083
    Nigelb said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    It's complicated, as you say, and ugly.

    Leigh is right that the Israeli government has, I think deliberately, blurred the line between criticising their actions and antisemitism.

    But equally, antisemites have co-opted opposition to Israeli actions for their own purposes.
    I find the Israeli government loathsome, openly fascistic.

    But, one must remember, many Israelis also find them loathsome and fascistic.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,242

    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    I’m one of those 30% without a home drive. Just sold our Zoe as we’d got a manual Polo for our son to learn to drive, but have also bought a PHEV as the main home car.

    PHEVs are a nightmare if you don’t have off street parking because with their short electric range you have to charge them several times a week. With the Zoe I could do lots of drives, gradually use up the range and then do a full recharge when a space appeared in front of the house.

    By the way that stat: 70% have off street parking? The only people with drives or off street parking here are in £2m+ houses.
    On the other hand, I live in a small block of 6 flats in Hampshire, 3 of the 6 have chargers (and a 4th manages hanging a cable out of the window). The rest could have them. We park near the flats but installing armour cable when laying the drive shouldn't cost much, when we relaud the drive we installed passive provision to the garages in a block very cheaply.
    My main objection to the politics I hear around this is the London-centric focus. But that's a problem which has been dominant since about 1920-1950, and still needs properly to be addressed.
    If you consider addressing a major problem for 30% of the country a non runner because it helps Londoners we are not going to make much progress.
    I'm not saying "don't address". I am saying "this is a part of the conversation, but should not be dominant".
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,856
    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    Not everyone can afford a Tesla. If you get an electric Corsa, you get 180 miles and in the real world, probably less. If you are in the second hand car market you are even more constrained, as older cars don't go as far.

    Unfortunately manufacturers seem more intent on putting in useless bells and whistles rather than a bigger battery. I have been looking at second hand EVs and often it goes basic model - fancy model - fancy model with longer range, I want basic model with longer range.
    You should look at something like a 3 year old eniro. Mine is 5 years old and still has the same range as new, 270 miles in the summer, 240 in the winter and is both the quickest and smoothest car that I have owned.

    £15000 would get you a good one, still with 4 years manufacturer's warranty.


    Thanks. I have been looking at cars around that price. I think my bottom line is that I want it to do at least 200 miles on a "tank" as I normally stop for a break after 3 hours anyway.

    Jaguar iPaces are available extremely cheaply but I presume that means they are a mare to run. And I don't need or want anything that big.

    Have been tempted by the MG4. However the biggest block is that since retiring I use the car only 2-3 times a week for short runs and I now begrudge the capital expenditure. Having a senior rail card means I can travel by train cheaply too. However my Megane is 16 years old and feels increasingly clunky, also if I got an EV I am sure I would use it for some trips away.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214
    .

    tlg86 said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    Do you think people holding the Palestinian flag clouds the issue on Islamophobia?

    In the aftermath of the October 7 attacks and the pre-emotive anti-Israel “demonstrations” a lot of British Jews made the point that this is why Israel needs to exist. Jews need somewhere they can retreat to if things get really bad.

    So I don’t think Jews waving Israeli flags means anything more than that and anyone saying it clouds the issue just wants an excuse to hate Jews.
    You're saying TSE is looking for an excuse to hate Jews?
    Fuxake.
    I don't think so.
    But saying one flag is fine and the other 'clouds the issue' is an odd argument.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,655
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    It's complicated, as you say, and ugly.

    Leigh is right that the Israeli government has, I think deliberately, blurred the line between criticising their actions and antisemitism.

    But equally, antisemites have co-opted opposition to Israeli actions for their own purposes.
    I find the Israeli government loathsome, openly fascistic.

    But, one must remember, many Israelis also find them loathsome and fascistic.
    There is speculation that Bibi can win an Israeli election and ditch the far-right parties (apologies for exploding the heads of anyone who considers Likud to be far-right).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,622


    Jaguar iPaces are available extremely cheaply but I presume that means they are a mare to run. And I don't need or want anything that big.

    Absolute fucking nightmare with loads of software and battery cooling issues. In theory most of it should have been rectified on warranty, in practice JLR warranty work is the unparalleled exemplar of shoddiness. At one point JLR were making their employees take them as company cars as it was the only way to "sell" them.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,702
    Nigelb said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    It's complicated, as you say, and ugly.

    Leigh is right that the Israeli government has, I think deliberately, blurred the line between criticising their actions and antisemitism.

    But equally, antisemites have co-opted opposition to Israeli actions for their own purposes.
    True but all politicians manipulate language - there was a particularly disgraceful example this morning where a Cabinet Minister defines working people as people on modest incomes, obviously to allow the government room to steal more money from groups it doesn't like,without breaking their pledge not to rise taxes on "working people".

    You also see it with Palestinians calling what's happening in Gaza "genocide" rather than "ethnic cleansing", which is less emotive but fits much better.

    And so on.

    Of course when you call them out on this you look pedantic, or even, God forbid, lawyerly. And it needs effort, which is why lazy journalists never bother.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,299
    Leon said:

    There’s a bigger story in the Guardian. The total collapse of entry level graduate jobs. It’s mayhem out there

    Universities are doomed. We need to tell our kids to go elsewhere, learn a trade, don’t take on all that debt


    Yup, I flashed up the warning signs on here about a year ago and got told I was being ridiculous. I said it again a few months ago that kids today would be better off learning something practical rather than something behind a desk. Again the usual suspects told me I was being alarmist and that "junior lawyers" would still earn more than anyone who did a trade, ignoring the fact that there's only about 300 spots per year for in magic circle graduate schemes.

    The talent pipeline in the UK has completely collapsed at the top of the funnel. There's hardly any junior hires for highly skilled careers and we're increasingly relying on the 2015-2019 graduate cohorts to fill mid and senior roles whole those who graduated since 2020 are struggling to get meaningful junior roles to start their careers.

    Once again I'll say it, if you've got kids between 12 and 16 you should advise them to pick something practical or vocational that isn't easy to automate. I have two and one on the way, o genuinely have no idea what the world will look like by the time they're 16 and making those big life choices, I just have to hope everything is settled by then and career choices/pathways are easier.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    I am struggling to write a thread in this heat.

    I hate the heat.

    Buy a fan. They are cheap, don't use much energy, don't dry the air out, unlike aircon, .
    Aircon via air sources heat pumps does not "dry the air out".
    I recently bought one of those Ranvoo neck aircon gadgets. It is very effective at cooling the neck and therefore brain and body but like all aircon, it vents hot air, in this case onto my ears.

    For £200, I'd not recommend it for that reason. Cheaper would be some sort of frozen tie-like material provided you do not wrap it all the way round and risk strangulation.
    ASHPs are only of utility if the hot air is vented outside.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,722
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    If you can charge at home covering most journeys EV is a slam dunk. Marginal at the moment if you have to rely on public chargers.
    I think in the UK ~70% have driveways or off street parking.

    The noise about not being able to charge is quite a minority concern, especially in London where car ownership is significantly lower than elsewhere.

    Much of the fix is about practical alternatives, whether active travel of some sort, or public transport.
    30% nationally is a fairly large group of peeps, minority or not. And of course in the cities it is a majority concern, if the distinction between majority and minority is so important, rather than the amount of people impacted.
    But it's also true that 25% of households don't have a car at all, and in cities that can be as high as 80%. The reason that it's causing such anxiety is because our media is heavily influenced by people who live in cities and can afford to drive a car - people like me.
    54% of London households have a car. That's a majority!

    https://content.tfl.gov.uk/technical-note-12-how-many-cars-are-there-in-london.pdf
    That makes sense - even in London, only 40% of households live in flats*. The difficulty in London is so much of the housing stock in terraces, which I guess means the number of households who have cars but don't have drives is much higher than elsewhere.

    *Absolutely extraordinary if you consider that in Germany 65% of households in live in flats. No wonder we have such pressure on the green belt as we refuse to build upward even in our biggest city.
    It seems to be a case of taste triumphing without argument over practicality. I grew up on the 8th floor here and it's easily the best place I've ever lived:

    https://home.dk/salg/lejligheder/lehwaldsvej-3-9d-2800-kongens-lyngby/sag-1530003573/

    and wouldn't have dreamed of wanting to live in a house. I get that many people want to have a private garden, but there's at least an argument to be had about the virtues of covering the country with single houses.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,856
    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    franklyn said:

    I wonder what PBers thought of the lead article in today's online Daily Telegraph
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/12/anti-semitism-normalised-britain-british-board-jews-israel/#comment

    (it is also the lead article in the print version, for those of you who skin read a 'paper')

    It's not a pleasant read, I've posted on here many times if the UK becomes unwelcome for Jews then eventually it will become unwelcome for other minorities.

    One thing that has been bubbling away, and I'm not sure what the answer is, I suspect it is complex.

    One thing that (rightly) is said that you cannot hold Jews responsible for the actions of the state of Israel, but in that photo in the Telegraph article (and elsewhere) you see Jewish people using the Israeli flag at antisemitism rallies which I think clouds the issue.

    I think Edward Leigh (or somebody else) who is a longstanding Friend of Israel has said accusations of antisemitism are thrown when people rightly condemn the genocide in Gaza.
    It's complicated, as you say, and ugly.

    Leigh is right that the Israeli government has, I think deliberately, blurred the line between criticising their actions and antisemitism.

    But equally, antisemites have co-opted opposition to Israeli actions for their own purposes.
    True but all politicians manipulate language - there was a particularly disgraceful example this morning where a Cabinet Minister defines working people as people on modest incomes, obviously to allow the government room to steal more money from groups it doesn't like,without breaking their pledge not to rise taxes on "working people".

    You also see it with Palestinians calling what's happening in Gaza "genocide" rather than "ethnic cleansing", which is less emotive but fits much better.

    And so on.

    Of course when you call them out on this you look pedantic, or even, God forbid, lawyerly. And it needs effort, which is why lazy journalists never bother.

    Ethnic cleansing is a form of genocide though. Denying it is like the people saying that the Russians aren't carrying out Ukrainian genocide, 'cos there aren't any death camps.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,214

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Surprised by the chat on the last thread suggesting that poor people don't use EVs. In Edinburgh it's primarily people in the lowest income deciles who get around in them.

    Yup, same in Manchester and Sheffield, you're much more likely to see a Ford Focus/Kuga EV than a Mercedes EV (of which there are plenty.)

    I am sure the same PBers who were complaining about the government subsidising EVs complained vigorously when the Tories did the same.

    Ful disclosure, this household has two EVs.
    No, even poorer. The buses that trundle around Muirhouse, Pilton, Niddrie are electric. You've also got the tram, and I got rescued at 1am by an electric taxi too.

    The fact is we have spent very public little cash on the infrastructure for personal EVs - we can't get one because we live in a flat and the council haven't installed any charging points round here. My partner's work does not have a charging point, despite being NHS.

    Oddly, the Highlands are actually really good for them, with most accommodation finding a way to get you charged up and quite a few public chargers available. In the end, everyone in the UK lives in a house, so driveway charging is only a very small hurdle to getting there - just needs some cash.

    Even my parents are considering it.
    My father who drives is very pro EV, my mother who doesn't drive, didn't want an EV as she worried about range anxiety.

    My only problem with EVs are that they are too f*cking quiet, my last speeding points was when I thought I was doing below 50mph in a 50 and when the camera flashed I was doing 72mph, the sound car was making felt I was driving close to 45mph.
    Range anxiety is both a Big Thing in the minds of skeptics and not a thing in the minds of people who actually drive modern EVs.

    I've got a Model 3 Performance for the weekend for filming. Spanked it round the North East 250 yesterday. Had a little power left in the battery so did a few more launches just before arriving home so that it was down to 1%. But looking at the screen showed there is at least 4kWh in there - and a further 3kWh of hard buffer.

    So even if it showed 0% there's still miles left in it. Same as with a fuel car when the gauge shows nothing left.
    When I worked for an oil company, we had a green division.

    Some might say it was green washing - but the people in it, didn’t take that view. At one point the vast majority of solar cells made in Europe were ours.

    Every time we talked to the car manufacturers, they would say “the real, working hydrogen fuel cell cars will be a year or two. As are the electric cars.”

    Always the future.

    And the government would need to spend trillions on the refuelling network. Of course.

    Despite all that has followed, the Tesla supercharger network is still a thing of genius. Certainly compared to the competition.
    Not true in China.

    This was all predictable - as indeed Musk did - well over a decade ago.
    The denial by western manufacturers, regularly shows on PB over the years, was off the charts.

    The Innovator's Dilemma was published almost three decades ago. It remains one of the best texts in the subject.

    Sooner or later, all manufacturing is the tech industry.
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