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Sometimes I don’t have to say anything, the image says it all – politicalbetting.com

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,169
    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News getting excited about the idea of a wealth tax.

    "What is a wealth tax, how would it work in the UK and where else has one?
    The idea of a wealth tax has been raised before in the UK but has never been implemented."

    https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a-wealth-tax-how-would-it-work-in-the-uk-and-where-else-has-one-13394144

    IMO it's a fairly naive, silly article from Sky (as you say, "excited") - afaics they only focus on the "2% above £10m worth" option. Our moronic media will go up the gum tree as they always do, yammering on about extreme options - exactly as the "Labour will tax you until your pips squeak" bollocks we had from the papers and the opposition politicians in the run up to the election.

    At least Sky mention the Swiss option which is at much lower levels and is applied more widely and less regressively, and which afaik is about the only one that works in raising a decent amount of money.

    Labour would be better saying "nothing like this in the current term - Kemi and Nigel are a couple of BS merchants", and close all the other loopholes of which lists have been published.

    Then pivot Council Tax to a % of property value, or at least with no upper bands and make it linear, which is a type of wealth tax on our most featherbedded type of wealth. That would then begin to slay the house price inflation demon and make property more affordable, a superb contrast to the morally-bankrupt Conservative never-ending feeding of the demand side with subsidies, which makes the house price inflation worse.
    Pivoting council tax to property value is going to drive renters out of better area's. Who renting is going to pay a council tax based on property value in london
    It's a local tax not national, you don't pay 10x the council tax for a studio flat in London as you would for a 2up2down terrace in Grimsby.
    I think you have said this before as I think I replied then. It doesn't make sense keeping in local because then it it not a wealth tax and the ability the pay the top band is going to be a lot different to a place will top band is 300k upwards and a place when the top band starts at 2 mill
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,668

    Can @rcs1000 confirm that the traffic situation in LA has improved?

    https://x.com/StephenM/status/1942981399080018275

    What if, this entire time, the key to fixing our cities was enforcing our immigration laws?

    I haven't noticed any improvement. In fact, yesterday I got out the Uber half a mile from airport and walked the last bit because it was so busy.

    But LA traffic is weird. Sometimes it's super busy and takes you two hours to go a mile. Other times, you feel like it should be busy, and the reoads are empty.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    Introducing Higgsfield Soul ID.
    https://x.com/higgsfield_ai/status/1942985415520333942

    That's e-thots out of work.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,114
    scampi25 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Stay classy,

    Effigies of lifejacket-wearing migrants in boats have been placed on a village bonfire in a display condemned by critics as 'sickening' and 'racist'. A sign saying 'Stop the boats' was also attached to the pyre in Moygashel, on the outskirts of Dungannon in Co Tyrone in Northern Ireland, prompting protests.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14889681/Fury-racist-village-bonfire-effigy-migrants-stop-boats.html

    I'd be inclined to deport these people to an unsafe third country.
    So you're happy to deport UK citizens.... Interesting. The stupid left never fail to deliver.
    That was just a bit of Rod Liddle type whimsy from me there.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074
    edited July 9
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,101

    UK government’s deal with Google ‘dangerously naive’, say campaigners

    Company to provide free technology and ‘upskill’ civil servants but concerns raised over UK data being held on US servers

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/uk-governments-deal-with-google-dangerously-naive-say-campaigners

    There is absolutely no way the American government would allow this in reverse.

    If you've ever wondered why Britain has fallen behind America and China in the tech world, this shows why. No investment in homegrown facilities or talent, over decades.

    This is stupid on national security grounds, and equally stupid on development grounds.

    ICL/Horizon waves hello.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,119
    edited July 9
    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    More evidence free hyperbole

    Johnson's was the worst, on every metric
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,896

    I see Alistair and Rory have decided that they've been quiet for too long and need to criticise Israel on their podcast. Fair enough.

    I'm not a regular listener but I wonder if they have also been silent on the cesspit that was Gaza before October 2023 and the role of all the international aid and charitable organisations that were complicit in it. Hamas built a network of tunnels bigger than the London underground headquartered next to hospitals and had schools indoctrinating children against Jews. Are we to believe that none of the agencies knew anything about this? That they were blissfully unaware of how all their aid was being mis-used in Gaza by psychopathic savages intent on violence? At the very least I'd like some question to be asked of them not be constantly treated like paragons on the BBC and Sky News as they detail Israel's crimes.

    There's a lot of hate for the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (inevitable since it is American/Israeli) but can well understand why Israel has taken the steps it has to take control of the aid distribution system from the international bodies who's goods always seemed to find their way into Hamas' hands. Of course the GHF is dubbed 'controversial' by the media whilst the UN bodies are not controversial. Who gets to decide on that?

    I am not sure that any amount of whataboutery concerning Rory and friends is going to shed light, and I think you engage in a bit too much. Rory in particular is good on the history of the area, and taken as a whole TRIP gives reasonable and considered opinions, but can't cover all things at all times.

    What is needed with respect is a considered approach which goes from where we currently are to a place which has good outcomes for good people on all sides (there are lots of these people) and minimum opportunity for bad people on all sides (there are lots of those too SFAICS).

    Finding agreement on 'where we currently are' would be a start. We are well short of that. If America wants to use its firepower and influence well it would use it to bring about a massive multi party conference to meet until agreement and a settlement is found and agreed, with no route to get out of the dialogue and USA force as the backstop. Not because I trust USA force but because I trust the others even less.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,470
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    edited July 9
    The Centre for Social Justice (CSJ), a think tank, found that a non-working Universal Credit (UC) claimant receiving the average housing benefit and personal independence payment for ill health would have an income of £25,000 in 2026-27. This compares with a full-time worker paid the national living wage, who will earn about £22,500 after income tax and National Insurance.

    It found that a jobless single parent claiming for anxiety and for a child with ADHD (attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) would receive nearly £37,000 a year – £14,000 more than a worker on the national minimum wage.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/07/09/proof-that-benefits-pay-more-than-a-full-time-job-uc/
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    As indeed do you.

    Just because you have this enormous vocabulary and greater intellect doesn’t give you the right to bully people off the site

    So, yeah, very funny. Well done. Bravo you. Nice one - “as indeed do you [go on and on]”

    How am I meant to respond to a brutal assault like that? I may have to leave the site. Hope you’re happy



  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595
    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    Hey it's more than 5%. Banging.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,896
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 349
    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    Come on now. That's 50 more than the Tories were sending!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    He is dead good at this negotiation lark...he has probably given away the Channel Islands to France as part of it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    He is dead good at this negotiation lark...he has probably given away the Channel Islands to France as part of it.
    The Pasmalvinas?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    edited July 9

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
    My mate took me to watch the playoff semi-final between Bath and Bristol, I nearly choked on my pint when he said regular games are £100 a ticket, sitting in what is basically a temporary open air stand with no facilities, the one big screen being hardly visible and massive queues for the bar because there isn't enough space.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    He is dead good at this negotiation lark...he has probably given away the Channel Islands to France as part of it.
    Wait. Hold on. According to the Telegraph Labour have also set up a “new intelligence unit” at Dunkirk

    They are a comedy government. This is what they do. Establish inquiries. Set up “units”. Appoint a commission. Wait six years. Appoint another “unit”. Share details with stakeholders. Give away the Crown Jewels to the mayor of Calcutta
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,250
    Pagan2 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News getting excited about the idea of a wealth tax.

    "What is a wealth tax, how would it work in the UK and where else has one?
    The idea of a wealth tax has been raised before in the UK but has never been implemented."

    https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a-wealth-tax-how-would-it-work-in-the-uk-and-where-else-has-one-13394144

    IMO it's a fairly naive, silly article from Sky (as you say, "excited") - afaics they only focus on the "2% above £10m worth" option. Our moronic media will go up the gum tree as they always do, yammering on about extreme options - exactly as the "Labour will tax you until your pips squeak" bollocks we had from the papers and the opposition politicians in the run up to the election.

    At least Sky mention the Swiss option which is at much lower levels and is applied more widely and less regressively, and which afaik is about the only one that works in raising a decent amount of money.

    Labour would be better saying "nothing like this in the current term - Kemi and Nigel are a couple of BS merchants", and close all the other loopholes of which lists have been published.

    Then pivot Council Tax to a % of property value, or at least with no upper bands and make it linear, which is a type of wealth tax on our most featherbedded type of wealth. That would then begin to slay the house price inflation demon and make property more affordable, a superb contrast to the morally-bankrupt Conservative never-ending feeding of the demand side with subsidies, which makes the house price inflation worse.
    Pivoting council tax to property value is going to drive renters out of better area's. Who renting is going to pay a council tax based on property value in london
    It's a local tax not national, you don't pay 10x the council tax for a studio flat in London as you would for a 2up2down terrace in Grimsby.
    I think you have said this before as I think I replied then. It doesn't make sense keeping in local because then it it not a wealth tax and the ability the pay the top band is going to be a lot different to a place will top band is 300k upwards and a place when the top band starts at 2 mill
    Those are 2 different things, council tax to pay for local council services and wealth tax based on asset value.
    Renters wouldn't pay a wealth tax based on the value of the property they are renting because they don't own it, do they.
    Whether renters should pay for local council services rather than the property owner is an argument that was lost in the late 80s/early 90s.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,395
    edited July 9
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    He is dead good at this negotiation lark...he has probably given away the Channel Islands to France as part of it.
    Wait. Hold on. According to the Telegraph Labour have also set up a “new intelligence unit” at Dunkirk

    They are a comedy government. This is what they do. Establish inquiries. Set up “units”. Appoint a commission. Wait six years. Appoint another “unit”. Share details with stakeholders. Give away the Crown Jewels to the mayor of Calcutta
    You know the Border Tsar is WFH....in Finland.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    I'm in the next group and also happy to be rid of it.

    I think the problem is that the question doesn't carry costs. If it asked "would you be willing to increase income tax by 2% to keep the triple lock for another parliamentary term?" there may well be a different answer.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,180
    edited July 9
    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News getting excited about the idea of a wealth tax.

    "What is a wealth tax, how would it work in the UK and where else has one?
    The idea of a wealth tax has been raised before in the UK but has never been implemented."

    https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a-wealth-tax-how-would-it-work-in-the-uk-and-where-else-has-one-13394144

    IMO it's a fairly naive, silly article from Sky (as you say, "excited") - afaics they only focus on the "2% above £10m worth" option. Our moronic media will go up the gum tree as they always do, yammering on about extreme options - exactly as the "Labour will tax you until your pips squeak" bollocks we had from the papers and the opposition politicians in the run up to the election.

    At least Sky mention the Swiss option which is at much lower levels and is applied more widely and less regressively, and which afaik is about the only one that works in raising a decent amount of money.

    Labour would be better saying "nothing like this in the current term - Kemi and Nigel are a couple of BS merchants", and close all the other loopholes of which lists have been published.

    Then pivot Council Tax to a % of property value, or at least with no upper bands and make it linear, which is a type of wealth tax on our most featherbedded type of wealth. That would then begin to slay the house price inflation demon and make property more affordable, a superb contrast to the morally-bankrupt Conservative never-ending feeding of the demand side with subsidies, which makes the house price inflation worse.
    Pivoting council tax to property value is going to drive renters out of better area's. Who renting is going to pay a council tax based on property value in london
    It depends where liability lies.

    The Proportional Property tax, which is my preferred of the options I have seen, also includes abolition of Stamp Duty and Council Tax liability on the property owner. So there swings and roundabouts.

    I think that last element has problems - in that for some properties to remain viable it would be necessary sharply to increase rent, depending on the tenant.

    In this neck of the woods a Council Tax may be of the order of 15-30% of the rent. In London property prices would tend to fall - the calculation of the Proportional Tax model is that ~80%+ of properties would have a lower Council Tax, and it would skew towards a greater impact on the higher priced ones, which is what we want.

    Overall, I think it is a better balance in a lot of ways.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,250

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
    My mate took me to watch the playoff semi-final between Bath and Bristol, I nearly choked on my pint when he said regular games are £100 a ticket, sitting in what is basically a temporary open air stand with no facilities, the one big screen being hardly visible and massive queues for the bar because there isn't enough space.
    max £20 to go to a County championship cricket game and you can take your own booze and food.
    Perhaps they could be popular if the ECB didn't schedule them almost entirely during the working week.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,603
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    More evidence free hyperbole

    Johnson's was the worst, on every metric
    Well the evidence would be what's in the thread header. You don't get to be this disapproves of without being quite shit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,119

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    Come on now. That's 50 more than the Tories were sending!
    Not so sure receiving 50 from France in return is going to be well received

    And has the EU agreed to the deal ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,603
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
    How would they, when the gangs have been smashed?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,119
    Cookie said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    More evidence free hyperbole

    Johnson's was the worst, on every metric
    Well the evidence would be what's in the thread header. You don't get to be this disapproves of without being quite shit.
    In any sensible world, creating an unholy mess should be scored significantly lower than failing to clear it all up straight away.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,250
    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    50 per week vs 4 in 2 years, "that's a disgrace!!!"

    So they'll have matched the Conservatives record by lunchtime Monday of week 1....
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,113
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
    Are they sailing guaranteed delivery, or will the gangs just make another profit out of it?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
    Presumably we're allowed to send such people back as freebies. They'll have been fingerprinted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,114
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    As indeed do you.
    Just because you have this enormous vocabulary and greater intellect doesn’t give you the right to bully people off the site

    So, yeah, very funny. Well done. Bravo you. Nice one - “as indeed do you [go on and on]”

    How am I meant to respond to a brutal assault like that? I may have to leave the site. Hope you’re happy
    Just an observation. Almost didn't bother. Might not next time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,119
    Dopermean said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    50 per week vs 4 in 2 years, "that's a disgrace!!!"

    So they'll have matched the Conservatives record by lunchtime Monday of week 1....
    50 coming back from France so net zero
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    They’re probably sitting in pas de Calais in a tent shaking their heads in despair at the skill and ruthlessness of the Gang smasher. Literally sending 50 people a week back to France as 800 go the other way every day

    I bet they hate him. The gangs. I bet the gangs hate the gang smasher as he smashes them to pieces so that literally 1 in 17 of the migrants might get returned or maybe not. He’s literally smashed them all to pieces
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
    How would they, when the gangs have been smashed?
    I love how he can make everything an abject failure.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    In a fortnight that's the same as Sunaks Rwanda scheme, and more likely to actually happen.
    What’s to stop these 50 migrants from simply starting again and getting on another boat?
    Presumably we're allowed to send such people back as freebies. They'll have been fingerprinted.
    Until they appeal to the ECHR and we have to let them in anyway
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    They’re probably sitting in pas de Calais in a tent shaking their heads in despair at the skill and ruthlessness of the Gang smasher. Literally sending 50 people a week back to France as 800 go the other way every day

    I bet they hate him. The gangs. I bet the gangs hate the gang smasher as he smashes them to pieces so that literally 1 in 17 of the migrants might get returned or maybe not. He’s literally smashed them all to pieces
    They hate every penny of the 'second boat' insurance theyll now charge
    Bring me your huddled masses innit
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,581
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    The deterrence alone would have been enough to dramatically reduce numbers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    Britain is nicer than Bulgaria. You really notice it when you come back from Bulgaria to Britain. It’s nicer here

    I might offer that to Visit Britain as a slogan for their next campaign

    “Nicer than Bulgaria”
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,512
    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News getting excited about the idea of a wealth tax.

    "What is a wealth tax, how would it work in the UK and where else has one?
    The idea of a wealth tax has been raised before in the UK but has never been implemented."

    https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a-wealth-tax-how-would-it-work-in-the-uk-and-where-else-has-one-13394144

    IMO it's a fairly naive, silly article from Sky (as you say, "excited") - afaics they only focus on the "2% above £10m worth" option. Our moronic media will go up the gum tree as they always do, yammering on about extreme options - exactly as the "Labour will tax you until your pips squeak" bollocks we had from the papers and the opposition politicians in the run up to the election.

    At least Sky mention the Swiss option which is at much lower levels and is applied more widely and less regressively, and which afaik is about the only one that works in raising a decent amount of money.

    Labour would be better saying "nothing like this in the current term - Kemi and Nigel are a couple of BS merchants", and close all the other loopholes of which lists have been published.

    Then pivot Council Tax to a % of property value, or at least with no upper bands and make it linear, which is a type of wealth tax on our most featherbedded type of wealth. That would then begin to slay the house price inflation demon and make property more affordable, a superb contrast to the morally-bankrupt Conservative never-ending feeding of the demand side with subsidies, which makes the house price inflation worse.
    Pivoting council tax to property value is going to drive renters out of better area's. Who renting is going to pay a council tax based on property value in london
    It's a local tax not national, you don't pay 10x the council tax for a studio flat in London as you would for a 2up2down terrace in Grimsby.
    I think you have said this before as I think I replied then. It doesn't make sense keeping in local because then it it not a wealth tax and the ability the pay the top band is going to be a lot different to a place will top band is 300k upwards and a place when the top band starts at 2 mill
    Those are 2 different things, council tax to pay for local council services and wealth tax based on asset value.
    Renters wouldn't pay a wealth tax based on the value of the property they are renting because they don't own it, do they.
    Whether renters should pay for local council services rather than the property owner is an argument that was lost in the late 80s/early 90s.
    We have a system where both the owner and a renter pay rates which are the equivalent of council tax. These are owner (foncier) and renter (occupier) and there are two sets, one that pays for your local parish services such as bins, recycling etc and one set goes to the central gov.

    These are calculated by a Parish committee of rate payers but not Parish officials. The method is in basic form below - it helps having smaller administrative entities here I imagine in the Parish system (very like the French commune system in effect.

    “ The rateable value of land is based on the “attributes” of that land.

    The Law defines “attributes” as the size, location, accommodation, condition and use of the land and the quality of any house, building or other structure in, on, under or over the land.

    The rateable value of each area of land with similar or substantially similar attributes will be the same. Rateable values are proportionate to attributes.

    Land is assessed on the attributes at 1 January. If there has been no change to the attributes, and the previous rateable value is not disputed, then the rateable value will not change from the previous year.”
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,180
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Here is something far vaster and sadder and bigger and more momentous than the ridiculous post office nonsense

    The intense and increasing loneliness of the western world. In a few charts. THIS is something to worry about

    https://x.com/davidshor/status/1942932100707225620?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw

    And young people, bring back WI, Mothers' Union, Rotary Club, youth clubs, scouts etc and champion mothers and wives as well as high earning career women
    That may be something to do with the annual number of emergency calls having gone down from ~1 million to ~600k in the last 20 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    Not as crazy as it sounds.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,717
    alexmassie
    @alexmassie
    ·
    4h
    Once again, I beseech you: Every single discussion of public sector pay - nurses, doctors, teachers etc - should include the value of public sector pensions. Compensation deferred remains compensation.

    https://x.com/alexmassie/status/1942937642649493788
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,637

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    That's not going to be enough.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    It was not a one in one out deal
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,585

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    He is dead good at this negotiation lark...he has probably given away the Channel Islands to France as part of it.
    Wait. Hold on. According to the Telegraph Labour have also set up a “new intelligence unit” at Dunkirk

    They are a comedy government. This is what they do. Establish inquiries. Set up “units”. Appoint a commission. Wait six years. Appoint another “unit”. Share details with stakeholders. Give away the Crown Jewels to the mayor of Calcutta
    You know the Border Tsar is WFH....in Finland.
    We’re being played for mugs.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,896

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
    Blimey. Supply and demand I guess. Reckon my £1,400 for 23 Arsenal games is a bargain.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,052
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    As indeed do you.
    Just because you have this enormous vocabulary and greater intellect doesn’t give you the right to bully people off the site

    So, yeah, very funny. Well done. Bravo you. Nice one - “as indeed do you [go on and on]”

    How am I meant to respond to a brutal assault like that? I may have to leave the site. Hope you’re happy
    Just an observation. Almost didn't bother. Might not next time.
    Shame on you for making a troll cry!
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
    Yes. A simple "I was wrong" would have sufficed.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,637
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    The Maths and Logic skills of PB posters are, with a few notable exceptions, comfortably in the upper decile for the population as a whole.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    Not as crazy as it sounds.
    It’s not at all crazy. It would be a brilliant political move - transforming and electrifying politics and completely bamboozling my opponents inside Labour and out. Millions would adore me, overnight. The polls would shift radically in hours - largely in my favour

    Luckily the Toolmakersson has zero imagination and zero courage so he won’t do this

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074
    tlg86 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
    Blimey. Supply and demand I guess. Reckon my £1,400 for 23 Arsenal games is a bargain.
    £600 for my season ticket at Leicester City for 23 games.

    Presuming we have a manager and team in a month's time, of course...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,119
    edited July 9

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    That's not going to be enough.
    The problem with Starmer is he is so anxious to get a deal, he will make an announcement without having completed the process and obtained EU approval

    He really is a terrible PM, and if he thinks he can sell sending 50 migrants back in exchange for 50 coming here from France then he really is more stupid then even I thought
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,074
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
    Yes. A simple "I was wrong" would have sufficed.
    Yes, not one in, one out, but rather an agreement to take an unspecified number.

    It wasn't to be a one way traffic.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    Not as crazy as it sounds.
    It’s not at all crazy. It would be a brilliant political move - transforming and electrifying politics and completely bamboozling my opponents inside Labour and out. Millions would adore me, overnight. The polls would shift radically in hours - largely in my favour

    Luckily the Toolmakersson has zero imagination and zero courage so he won’t do this

    He will instead negotiate a deal to sell all second born children to Belgium and have the parents rent them back.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 185
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    Neither. Just very untypical of real people.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,637
    Dopermean said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    It's more toxic for the model of finance, politics and governance which has been in place since 1918.

    The model needs to evolve to match the demographics and that means looking at different ways of funding including looking at accumulated wealth taxation.

    An afternoon at Lingfield Park, a lunch time at Toby Carvery and any cruise will tell you there's a lot of money in this country and that money is among the older demographic. That's not an argument against triple locks or pensions per se but perhaps a recognition that wealth accumulated via paying off mortgages in times of low interest rates and the resulting asset appreciation realised via downsizing are other areas for HM Treasury to consider.
    I’d echo this at Premiership Rugby at Bath. The crowd seems significantly older than say 10 years ago. Prices are high £800 for a season ticket to about 12 games.
    My mate took me to watch the playoff semi-final between Bath and Bristol, I nearly choked on my pint when he said regular games are £100 a ticket, sitting in what is basically a temporary open air stand with no facilities, the one big screen being hardly visible and massive queues for the bar because there isn't enough space.
    max £20 to go to a County championship cricket game and you can take your own booze and food.
    Perhaps they could be popular if the ECB didn't schedule them almost entirely during the working week.
    I did hear that County Championship attendances are higher during the week, because there are fewer other events scheduled and the younger families the retired might visit are busy at work.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,595
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
    Yes. A simple "I was wrong" would have sufficed.
    Yes, not one in, one out, but rather an agreement to take an unspecified number.

    It wasn't to be a one way traffic.
    Who said it was?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,632
    Leon said:

    Britain is nicer than Bulgaria. You really notice it when you come back from Bulgaria to Britain. It’s nicer here

    I might offer that to Visit Britain as a slogan for their next campaign

    “Nicer than Bulgaria”

    Things are very bad there. The devil has the people by the throat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,693
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
    Yes. A simple "I was wrong" would have sufficed.
    Yes, not one in, one out, but rather an agreement to take an unspecified number.

    It wasn't to be a one way traffic.
    Who said it was?
    A test for @foxy here as he struggles to say “yes I was wrong”

    The forum waits. Tenterhooks
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601
    edited July 9
    Sir Keir Starmer and his
    Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck, Duck, GOOSE deal
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,261
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Oh sweet fucking Jesus. That’s one dinghy. A week. This is Starmer’s big new deal? This is him “smashing the gangs”?

    He is so utterly helpless and shite
    And we get 50 more in return.
    Gangs smashed
    The Rwanda deal also included taking an equal number of refugees from Rwanda.
    Nope:

    https://fullfact.org/immigration/rwanda-policy-refugees/
    "While the agreement between the UK and Rwanda does say that the countries will make arrangements “to resettle a portion of Rwanda’s most vulnerable refugees in the United Kingdom”, it does not say that the number will be the same as the number of asylum seekers sent by the UK to Rwanda."

    From that link, so we did agree to take some in exchange. All theoretical of course because the scheme was an expensive flop.
    Yes. A simple "I was wrong" would have sufficed.
    Yes, not one in, one out, but rather an agreement to take an unspecified number.

    It wasn't to be a one way traffic.
    Who said it was?
    A test for @foxy here as he struggles to say “yes I was wrong”

    The forum waits. Tenterhooks
    That’s a big fat ‘I’m always right’ mote you’ve got there.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,512

    Sir Keir Starmer and his
    Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck,Duck, Duck, GOOSE deal

    Looks like England’s batting.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,730
    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    The voters might be enthusiastic, but can the country afford it? Cost of referendum; cost of negotiations; massive costs to persuade them to take us; massive costs to convert sterling to euro; massive annual payments into the EU coffers from then on in.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,389
    edited July 9

    alexmassie
    @alexmassie
    ·
    4h
    Once again, I beseech you: Every single discussion of public sector pay - nurses, doctors, teachers etc - should include the value of public sector pensions. Compensation deferred remains compensation.

    https://x.com/alexmassie/status/1942937642649493788

    The cash equivalent value of public sector versus equivalent private sector defined contribution pensions is a lot lower with real yields at 2% than it was with real yields at 0% to -2%.

    Sure, it's a good perk. But it's not as game changing in terms of total compensation as people imply.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,117
    edited July 9

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Is this real? Because if it is.. ugh. Starmer and Labour are utterly useless.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,052
    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    Just asking whether it should be abolished is a bit meaningless, without giving any indication of what - if anything - would replace it. It would be interesting to see the response to replacing it with a "single-lock" based on price inflation.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,717
    Ratters said:

    alexmassie
    @alexmassie
    ·
    4h
    Once again, I beseech you: Every single discussion of public sector pay - nurses, doctors, teachers etc - should include the value of public sector pensions. Compensation deferred remains compensation.

    https://x.com/alexmassie/status/1942937642649493788

    The cash equivalent value of public sector versus equivalent private sector defined contribution pensions is a lot lower with real yields at 2% than it was with real yields at 0% to -2%.

    Sure, it's a good perk. But it's not as game changing in terms of total compensation as people imply.
    That's now though surely? 'Now' may be short lived. Who the f knows.

    Public sector pension has certainty.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,114
    Chris said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    As indeed do you.
    Just because you have this enormous vocabulary and greater intellect doesn’t give you the right to bully people off the site

    So, yeah, very funny. Well done. Bravo you. Nice one - “as indeed do you [go on and on]”

    How am I meant to respond to a brutal assault like that? I may have to leave the site. Hope you’re happy
    Just an observation. Almost didn't bother. Might not next time.
    Shame on you for making a troll cry!
    Awful, isn't he. Forever banging on. He's like Alf Garnett.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    I am the 6%

  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,052
    kinabalu said:

    Chris said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    As indeed do you.
    Just because you have this enormous vocabulary and greater intellect doesn’t give you the right to bully people off the site

    So, yeah, very funny. Well done. Bravo you. Nice one - “as indeed do you [go on and on]”

    How am I meant to respond to a brutal assault like that? I may have to leave the site. Hope you’re happy
    Just an observation. Almost didn't bother. Might not next time.
    Shame on you for making a troll cry!
    Awful, isn't he. Forever banging on. He's like Alf Garnett.
    For heaven's sake stop! You may tip him over the edge into self-harm ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,717
    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    The voters might be enthusiastic, but can the country afford it? Cost of referendum; cost of negotiations; massive costs to persuade them to take us; massive costs to convert sterling to euro; massive annual payments into the EU coffers from then on in.
    Again. And again. And again. How often do some of us have to remind people?

    Rejoining the EU involves joining the Euro unless there is the mother of all opt outs in recent world history.

    WE DO NOT WANT TO JOIN THE EURO.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,601

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Is this real? Because if it is.. ugh. Starmer and Labour are utterly useless.
    17 in 1 out and another 1 in instead.
    Castlereagh himself could not conceive of such brilliance
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,585
    Interesting post from Daniel Priestley, who has debated wealth tax fanatic and greatest trader ever, Gary Stevenson, a few times on the possible effect of labours proposed (via Kinnock and others, leak it and gauge reaction) 2% wealth tax on assets above £10 million.

    https://x.com/danielpriestley/status/1943001013113491648?s=61
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,119
    What a chump Redwood is. No awareness at all that the period of Norman subjugation, as he would put it, was the furnace from which English would emerge as the language that would go on to conquer the world. Prior to the Conquest, 'we' spoke Old English, with all the complexity of other European languages - three genders, a complex set of inflections and endings, a whole stack of now unfamiliar letters.

    While the Normans were running everything and churning out their documents in Latin and Norman french, our ancestors were turning Old English into Middle English - one of the most dramatic linguistic transformations of history. Spoken by ordinary folk and rarely written down, out went the genders and most of the inflections and endings, with propositions and a more rigid word order used to convey tense and subject/object. The dialect in the linguistic driving seat shifted from Wessex to the more populous and prosperous East Midlands, enabling a synthesis of English and Norse syntax. Through some process not fully understood, the most straightforward elements of English and Norse were melded a new language, which also took in a batch of Latin derived words from French. After a few hundred years, when writing stuff down in the way that ordinary folk spoke, our proto-super-language was born.

    Had we not invented printing at just the time when, for reasons not fully understood, we changed the pronunciation of all of our vowels, such that the pronunciation of English became separated from its spelling, English would have been so obviously superior that no-one would ever have bothered to invent Esperanto.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,717
    Meanwhile in Loon Land:

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    ·
    49m

    “Can you explain how you calculated your latest round of tariffs? Was there a formula?” - Question

    “The formula was a formula based on common sense.” - Trump

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1943001181825175960


    Starmer may have no personality and no idea why he is PM and no story to tell the country but he isn't an actual total clown loon.

    Let's count our blessings.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,668
    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    The voters might be enthusiastic, but can the country afford it? Cost of referendum; cost of negotiations; massive costs to persuade them to take us; massive costs to convert sterling to euro; massive annual payments into the EU coffers from then on in.
    But that's what brilliant: we'd never actually region the EU!

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,181
    .
    Leon said:

    This is the worst government of my entire life: by a distance. They’ve done far more damage than Truss. And on and on it goes

    It is not even the worst government since the last one. (Although Starmer does have some worrying similarities with Sunak).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,668

    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    The voters might be enthusiastic, but can the country afford it? Cost of referendum; cost of negotiations; massive costs to persuade them to take us; massive costs to convert sterling to euro; massive annual payments into the EU coffers from then on in.
    Again. And again. And again. How often do some of us have to remind people?

    Rejoining the EU involves joining the Euro unless there is the mother of all opt outs in recent world history.

    WE DO NOT WANT TO JOIN THE EURO.
    While that's technically true, it's not actually true.

    Sweden is treaty bound to join the Euro, but has made no steps to do so, and I highly doubt will ever actually join.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,896
    scampi25 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    Neither. Just very untypical of real people.
    I post from Alpha Centauri, so, asking for a friend, what is the difference between 'people' and 'real people'. And which sort is Leon?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,800
    Crikey, my wife wasn’t even asked to do this one. Suggests to me that they have been selective or at least weighted about who they have asked.

    Asking her wouldn’t have improved Labour’s score.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,010

    UK government’s deal with Google ‘dangerously naive’, say campaigners

    Company to provide free technology and ‘upskill’ civil servants but concerns raised over UK data being held on US servers

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/uk-governments-deal-with-google-dangerously-naive-say-campaigners

    There is absolutely no way the American government would allow this in reverse.

    If you've ever wondered why Britain has fallen behind America and China in the tech world, this shows why. No investment in homegrown facilities or talent, over decades.

    This is stupid on national security grounds, and equally stupid on development grounds.

    The Ministers involved are simply corrupt, and this is a meal ticket for them. No more, no less.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,668
    kle4 said:

    I am the 6%

    Which one? There are three 6% on there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,668

    UK government’s deal with Google ‘dangerously naive’, say campaigners

    Company to provide free technology and ‘upskill’ civil servants but concerns raised over UK data being held on US servers

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/uk-governments-deal-with-google-dangerously-naive-say-campaigners

    There is absolutely no way the American government would allow this in reverse.

    If you've ever wondered why Britain has fallen behind America and China in the tech world, this shows why. No investment in homegrown facilities or talent, over decades.

    This is stupid on national security grounds, and equally stupid on development grounds.

    The Ministers involved are simply corrupt, and this is a meal ticket for them. No more, no less.
    Never attribute to malice, that which night be adequately explained by incompetence.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,800
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    *adopting my very best private Fraser accent*

    “We’re doomed”.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,896

    AnneJGP said:

    Leon said:

    Honestly, if I was Starmer this is what I’d do

    Let’s say I’m sir kier traitor. Everyone hates me. Turns out I am shit at being PM. I’m quite miserable as well. I don’t like the scrutiny. My wife hasn’t been seen in public for a year. My mps laugh at me and rebel openly. I have no ideas and no agenda and I am a void. I never dream. I can barely talk. I am behind a hard right party in the polls and heading for a historically pathetic single term

    How to turn it around with one astonishing move?

    Call a referendum on rejoining the EU. Say the country is in such a bad way I have no choice

    Immediately I will have the ardent support of 30% of the people. They will love me. My party will stare at me in awe. I will go down in history. Polls say I will probably win. Thus securing my legacy forever. Even if I do nothing else

    It is also one of the few things I genuinely believe

    I hope kier is not reading as he might get ideas

    The voters might be enthusiastic, but can the country afford it? Cost of referendum; cost of negotiations; massive costs to persuade them to take us; massive costs to convert sterling to euro; massive annual payments into the EU coffers from then on in.
    Again. And again. And again. How often do some of us have to remind people?

    Rejoining the EU involves joining the Euro unless there is the mother of all opt outs in recent world history.

    WE DO NOT WANT TO JOIN THE EURO.
    Don't tell the SNP. No-one has told them yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,095
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    I am the 6%

    Which one? There are three 6% on there.
    I wanted to preserve some mystery.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,010

    UK government’s deal with Google ‘dangerously naive’, say campaigners

    Company to provide free technology and ‘upskill’ civil servants but concerns raised over UK data being held on US servers

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jul/09/uk-governments-deal-with-google-dangerously-naive-say-campaigners

    There is absolutely no way the American government would allow this in reverse.

    If you've ever wondered why Britain has fallen behind America and China in the tech world, this shows why. No investment in homegrown facilities or talent, over decades.

    This is stupid on national security grounds, and equally stupid on development grounds.

    The Ministers involved are simply corrupt, and this is a meal ticket for them. No more, no less.
    Don't forget this is also the Government that seemingly inexplicably cancelled a UK AI scheme based in Scotland. Wonder why.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,119
    algarkirk said:

    scampi25 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Today's Times, page 6.

    "Britain "cannot afford the array of promises it has made to the public", the budget watchdog has concluded in a stark warning that the country has been living beyond its means".

    That's true of all developed world countries.

    The combination of rising life expectancy, promised pensions, increasingly expensive healthcare, and low birthrates is absolutely toxic for the sustainability of developed world government finances.
    Not looking likely for the penny to drop any time soon when we look at today's polling on the Triple Lock.



    https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3ltk4bjssnk22
    Well I am over 65 and in the 1% group who would certainly abolish the triple lock. I wonder what % of PB posters and readers are over 65 and also believe the triple lock should certainly go. I guess it is well over 1% of them. Are we too altruistic, or just too well off? Or both.
    Neither. Just very untypical of real people.
    I post from Alpha Centauri, so, asking for a friend, what is the difference between 'people' and 'real people'. And which sort is Leon?
    Leon is a person?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,169
    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Dopermean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Sky News getting excited about the idea of a wealth tax.

    "What is a wealth tax, how would it work in the UK and where else has one?
    The idea of a wealth tax has been raised before in the UK but has never been implemented."

    https://news.sky.com/story/what-is-a-wealth-tax-how-would-it-work-in-the-uk-and-where-else-has-one-13394144

    IMO it's a fairly naive, silly article from Sky (as you say, "excited") - afaics they only focus on the "2% above £10m worth" option. Our moronic media will go up the gum tree as they always do, yammering on about extreme options - exactly as the "Labour will tax you until your pips squeak" bollocks we had from the papers and the opposition politicians in the run up to the election.

    At least Sky mention the Swiss option which is at much lower levels and is applied more widely and less regressively, and which afaik is about the only one that works in raising a decent amount of money.

    Labour would be better saying "nothing like this in the current term - Kemi and Nigel are a couple of BS merchants", and close all the other loopholes of which lists have been published.

    Then pivot Council Tax to a % of property value, or at least with no upper bands and make it linear, which is a type of wealth tax on our most featherbedded type of wealth. That would then begin to slay the house price inflation demon and make property more affordable, a superb contrast to the morally-bankrupt Conservative never-ending feeding of the demand side with subsidies, which makes the house price inflation worse.
    Pivoting council tax to property value is going to drive renters out of better area's. Who renting is going to pay a council tax based on property value in london
    It's a local tax not national, you don't pay 10x the council tax for a studio flat in London as you would for a 2up2down terrace in Grimsby.
    I think you have said this before as I think I replied then. It doesn't make sense keeping in local because then it it not a wealth tax and the ability the pay the top band is going to be a lot different to a place will top band is 300k upwards and a place when the top band starts at 2 mill
    Those are 2 different things, council tax to pay for local council services and wealth tax based on asset value.
    Renters wouldn't pay a wealth tax based on the value of the property they are renting because they don't own it, do they.
    Whether renters should pay for local council services rather than the property owner is an argument that was lost in the late 80s/early 90s.
    Don't be naive, if my landlord has to pay 10k property tax it will added to rent just like mortgage rate rises
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,800

    Britain will send back 50 migrants per week under a trial of the scheme
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/starmer-send-back-one-in-17-migrants-under-macron-deal-uk/

    Is this real? Because if it is.. ugh. Starmer and Labour are utterly useless.
    17 in 1 out and another 1 in instead.
    Castlereagh himself could not conceive of such brilliance
    Well 17:1 is pretty close to 1 in and 1out. Let’s face it , with Starmer negotiating, it could have been worse.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,951
    Andy_JS said:

    Djokovic to lose the first seat and win 3-1 again?

    You called it right!
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