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The Life of Nigel – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,396

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,954
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    I'm a bit ambivalent about all this.

    On the one hand I kind of admire those so motivated that they want to start their own political party. I felt very similarly as a University student nearly 45 years ago when I was a founder member of the SDP. We believed then that none of the current parties had the answer to Britain's problems. We needed some Thatcherite (or at least orange book) economics combined with some compassion that the Tories seemed to have mislaid.

    But these new parties seem to turn on egos rather than ideas. On who has the "truth" rather than looking for consensus and a way forward. And even the SDP, with the genius of Roy Jenkins, David Owen, Shirley Williams and Bill...err, Rodgers did not succeed. Any one of the first 3 would be an absolute titan in modern politics.

    I met Bill Rogers many years later, and he was an absolutely lovely guy.
    My Mum knew him well, many years ago, pre-SDP.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    No it isn't incorrect. It is delivered in a comic way, but that’s exactly what happened. You went further on migrants after SKS delivered his Enoch Powell speech than most PB righties, only to have the silly tub of lard pull the rug completely from under you. Forgive me for saying you've been made to look a tit, but you have.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,954

    Gambling addict who stole whopping £1.7million from company where he was a financial controller is locked up for four years
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14860339/Gambling-addict-stole-whopping-1-7million-company-financial-controller-locked-four-years.html

    Gambling.

    And drugs, luxury holidays and gifts for his lover.

    But gambling.

    More to the point why has this taken over 6 years to prosecute? Makes it completely pointless.
    Austerity led to huge court delays. It's a massive problem.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892
    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    What - go backward and penalise solar and increase our use of expensive oil and gas for electricity?
    Oil and gas isn't more expensive - show us the relative strike prices. You can't, because it isn't.

    'Go backward' is an utterly meaningless value judgement.

    Solar panels are dirt cheap, but the strike price of solar was raised recently, and many businesses are being forced to purchase renewable energy - why exactly should those making a great deal of money this way be immune from tax rises? Should anything with green in the title be a licence to print money?
    Yet companies complain our energy is some of the most in the world. And the retail price of electricity is based on what gas turbines can generate because those are the things that can stop and start at a moments notice...

    Edit to add I'm sure @rcs1000 will be along later to show the error of your and Trump's ways.
    Oh look, no strike prices.
    Read https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electricity-pricing and get back to me when you understand how marginal pricing systems works and the fact that 98% of the time the marginal price of electricity in the UK is based on the wholesale gas price.
    No, you produce the strike prices to back up your assertions.

    Oh that's right, you can't, because your assertions were mince.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,614

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    No it isn't incorrect. It is delivered in a comic way, but that’s exactly what happened. You went further on migrants after SKS delivered his Enoch Powell speech than most PB righties, only to have the silly tub of lard pull the rug completely from under you. Forgive me for saying you've been made to look a tit, but you have.
    I haven’t because what SKS says is a complete irrelevance to my viewpoint
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,901

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There are presumably hundreds of criminal investigations a day. The govt does not get involved in most of them.

    Also, that a police investigation has been started means very little. If a lot of people make a fuss the police will look into something.
    The government is not involved in the police investigation and you should know that

    Where the government are involved, as stated by Lisa Nandy in the HOC is the behaviour of the BBC
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,183
    edited June 30

    SandraMc said:

    I find it ironic that Bob Vylan, who seems to have an antipathy to Jews and White people should take his name from a white, Jewish musician (who won a Noble prize for literature).

    Bob Vylan is a band name for a duo, not an individual. Despite the name, they've said they're not big Dylan fans.
    I am not sure he would be much of a fan of theirs.
    Given there was almost as much astonished screeching from the right of PB at Dylan’s Nobel as there was from them about Obama’s, I’m not sure unalloyed Dylan fanship is a defining characteristic here.

    Anyway, here’s Bobby’s verdict on the warmakers (thanks to Michael Rosen for reminding me of it).

    And I hope that you die
    And your death will come soon
    I'll follow your casket
    By the pale afternoon
    And I'll watch while you're lowered
    Down to your deathbed
    And I'll stand over your grave
    'Til I'm sure that you're dead

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,375

    carnforth said:

    Another one for the list of stuff the government and civil service should have been on top of years ago:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20rrdjvpexo

    "Food delivery apps to tighten checks to stop illegal workers"

    Why aren't these scams (c.f the Romanian fake student loans earlier this year) dealt with as they develop, rather than only after they've burgeoned? Especially when primary legislation is note required.

    Because now it is got so out of control they can't ignore it?
    A relative runs a building business - largish domestic stuff.

    He was early into the modernised style of building - properly engineered stuff, trained workforce, no cash in hand.

    In the early 2000s he, and other legit builders asked at various levels, for something to be done about very, very illegal outfits - they would start with inadequate and unsafe scaffolding and proceed to break every rule.

    There were areas of London where legitimate builders couldn’t operate - the cowboys were undercutting them.

    They were, by the way, killing and maiming a steady stream of their employees.

    My relative was told, by a senior member of the cabinet office, that it was policy that nothing would be done - cheap building work was considered good for the economy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338
    eek said:

    carnforth said:

    Another one for the list of stuff the government and civil service should have been on top of years ago:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20rrdjvpexo

    "Food delivery apps to tighten checks to stop illegal workers"

    Why aren't these scams (c.f the Romanian fake student loans earlier this year) dealt with as they develop, rather than only after they've burgeoned? Especially when primary legislation is note required.

    Because now it is got so out of control they can't ignore it?
    I've heard of multiple people online who have had their NI numbers used without their consent - only discovering recently when HMRC presented them with large tax bills for unpaid tax in 2024/25.
    Happened to me in the mid nineties. But mine was used to claim benefits. In ruddy Bedford of all places. I had a call out of the blue from HMRC about it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,954

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    You think anthropogenic climate change is made up by a cabal seeking to enrich themselves, a conspiracy theory, so maybe we can ignore your comments here.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    The government can't win on the Glastonbury stuff. Say nothing and they get grief, make any statement and they get grief.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,108

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    Never mind gas being baked in, the government is supporting new build CCGT and blue hydrogen plants that will create new demand for natural gas. While at the same time blocking the development of additional natural gas reserves to supply their fuel. Hence having to buy Qatari LNG for decades to come. Totally incoherent.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 12,159
    MattW said:

    On the header, Ben Habib seems to have his own internal People's Republic of Judea.

    He seems to have:

    1 - The Integrity Party.
    2 - Restore Britain.
    3 - The Advance UK Party.

    I need a political anthropologist.

    Integrity is the same as Advance, its a name change. Restore is not a party
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,964

    SandraMc said:

    I find it ironic that Bob Vylan, who seems to have an antipathy to Jews and White people should take his name from a white, Jewish musician (who won a Noble prize for literature).

    Bob Vylan is a band name for a duo, not an individual. Despite the name, they've said they're not big Dylan fans.
    I am not sure he would be much of a fan of theirs.
    Given there was almost as much astonished screeching from the right of PB at Dylan’s Nobel as there was from them about Obama’s, I’m not sure unalloyed Dylan fanship is a defining characteristic here.

    Anyway, here’s Bobby’s verdict on the warmakers (thanks to Michael Rosen for reminding me of them).

    And I hope that you die
    And your death will come soon
    I'll follow your casket
    By the pale afternoon
    And I'll watch while you're lowered
    Down to your deathbed
    And I'll stand over your grave
    'Til I'm sure that you're dead

    Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
    “Rip down all hate,” I screamed
    Lies that life is black and white
    Spoke from my skull. I dreamed
    Romantic facts of musketeers
    Foundationed deep, somehow
    Ah, but I was so much older then
    I’m younger than that now
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892

    SandraMc said:

    I find it ironic that Bob Vylan, who seems to have an antipathy to Jews and White people should take his name from a white, Jewish musician (who won a Noble prize for literature).

    Bob Vylan is a band name for a duo, not an individual. Despite the name, they've said they're not big Dylan fans.
    I am not sure he would be much of a fan of theirs.
    Given there was almost as much astonished screeching from the right of PB at Dylan’s Nobel as there was from them about Obama’s, I’m not sure unalloyed Dylan fanship is a defining characteristic here.

    Anyway, here’s Bobby’s verdict on the warmakers (thanks to Michael Rosen for reminding me of them).

    And I hope that you die
    And your death will come soon
    I'll follow your casket
    By the pale afternoon
    And I'll watch while you're lowered
    Down to your deathbed
    And I'll stand over your grave
    'Til I'm sure that you're dead

    I can't say I'm overly compelled by the poetry of it all, but at least the written word has the advantage of not having to listen to the man himself wrap his ropey old larynx round it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,134
    edited June 30

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    Not for everyone. It's only about c70% of houses, and those with heating oil got screwed over by the Russians even more than those with gas boilers. It's part of the reason people in the highlands have moved so swiftly to solar and small turbines.

    And mains gas not even been around that long, in the grand scheme of things - the big rollout was post-North Sea I think. If we can roll out gas to about 15 million buildings in less than a decade then achieving Net Zero by 2050 is relatively unambitious.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338
    edited June 30

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    Never mind gas being baked in, the government is supporting new build CCGT and blue hydrogen plants that will create new demand for natural gas. While at the same time blocking the development of additional natural gas reserves to supply their fuel. Hence having to buy Qatari LNG for decades to come. Totally incoherent.
    Is this the example Ed M wants us to set the world so they will follow our lead ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,954

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There are presumably hundreds of criminal investigations a day. The govt does not get involved in most of them.

    Also, that a police investigation has been started means very little. If a lot of people make a fuss the police will look into something.
    The government is not involved in the police investigation and you should know that

    Where the government are involved, as stated by Lisa Nandy in the HOC is the behaviour of the BBC
    I didn't say the govt was involved in the police investigation.

    You said the govt couldn't ignore the situation, in part, because there is an investigation. I was questioning your logic there.

    I don't think the govt should be involved every time the BBC makes a mistake.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,461
    edited June 30

    eek said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    What - go backward and penalise solar and increase our use of expensive oil and gas for electricity?
    Oil and gas isn't more expensive - show us the relative strike prices. You can't, because it isn't.

    'Go backward' is an utterly meaningless value judgement.

    Solar panels are dirt cheap, but the strike price of solar was raised recently, and many businesses are being forced to purchase renewable energy - why exactly should those making a great deal of money this way be immune from tax rises? Should anything with green in the title be a licence to print money?
    Yet companies complain our energy is some of the most in the world. And the retail price of electricity is based on what gas turbines can generate because those are the things that can stop and start at a moments notice...

    Edit to add I'm sure @rcs1000 will be along later to show the error of your and Trump's ways.
    Oh look, no strike prices.
    Read https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/electricity-pricing and get back to me when you understand how marginal pricing systems works and the fact that 98% of the time the marginal price of electricity in the UK is based on the wholesale gas price.
    No, you produce the strike prices to back up your assertions.

    Oh that's right, you can't, because your assertions were mince.
    Given that wholesale electricity prices are set on the margin and the marginal price is set by gas turbines what has strike prices got to do with anything?

    Because given that we know solar is always used and wind mostly used gas has to be more expensive
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30
    Its interesting all the double and triple standards.

    While Bobby V were having their antisemitic rant, Marilyn Manson had UK gigs cancelled because of effort of MP and activist groups, despite not being found guilty of anything*.

    6 months ago, Falling in Reverse, absolutely no big outcry or attempt to cancel them, lots of excited press headlines of first UK tour, playing all the big venues, the Home Office decided to ban them. For those that don't know lead singer of Falling in Reverse involved in a murder, domestic abuse, etc. They are way bigger than Bobby V or Kneecap.

    * For the record, it is pretty clear he is is a very warped individual outside of the stage act.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,108

    SandraMc said:

    I find it ironic that Bob Vylan, who seems to have an antipathy to Jews and White people should take his name from a white, Jewish musician (who won a Noble prize for literature).

    Bob Vylan is a band name for a duo, not an individual. Despite the name, they've said they're not big Dylan fans.
    Is it pronounced vie-lan or villain?

    I read it as the former.

    If the latter, perhaps they are Aston Villa fans?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,257
    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    You think anthropogenic climate change is made up by a cabal seeking to enrich themselves, a conspiracy theory, so maybe we can ignore your comments here.
    I'd love you to ignore my comments, but you don't speak for anyone else, unless that's the Royal we.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30
    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,375

    Its interesting all the double and triple standards.

    While Bobby V were having their antisemitic rant, Marilyn Manson had UK gigs cancelled because of effort of MP and activist groups, despite not being found guilty of anything.

    6 months ago, Falling in Reverse, absolutely no big outcry or attempt to cancel them, lots of excited press headlines of first UK tour, playing all the big venues, the Home Office decided to ban them. For those that don't know lead singer of Falling in Reverse involved in a murder, domestic abuse, etc. They are way bigger than Bobby V or Kneecap.

    Marilyn Manson was found not guilty of crimes. He is, according to his own statements about his behaviour, a really nasty piece of work.

    Your regular reminder that legal != decent and reputations are worth something.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,987
    carnforth said:

    Another one for the list of stuff the government and civil service should have been on top of years ago:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20rrdjvpexo

    "Food delivery apps to tighten checks to stop illegal workers"

    Why aren't these scams (c.f the Romanian fake student loans earlier this year) dealt with as they develop, rather than only after they've burgeoned? Especially when primary legislation is note required.

    Because there was no downside to the government or civil service until they got bad headlines about it?

    The bike courier 'food' delivery people here are all notoriously just fronts for shipping drugs around the city. Which the police have recently decided to 'look into'. My suspicion being that the bigger, older drug dealer gangs are annoyed at the Albanian gangs who have appeared over the last year or two and are out-competing them.

    I am in no way implying that established drug gangs would have any influence on the police maintaining the status-quo.

  • eekeek Posts: 30,461

    Gambling addict who stole whopping £1.7million from company where he was a financial controller is locked up for four years
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14860339/Gambling-addict-stole-whopping-1-7million-company-financial-controller-locked-four-years.html

    Gambling.

    And drugs, luxury holidays and gifts for his lover.

    But gambling.

    More to the point why has this taken over 6 years to prosecute? Makes it completely pointless.
    Austerity led to huge court delays. It's a massive problem.
    Complex employment tribunals are currently getting dates in late 2028
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30

    Its interesting all the double and triple standards.

    While Bobby V were having their antisemitic rant, Marilyn Manson had UK gigs cancelled because of effort of MP and activist groups, despite not being found guilty of anything.

    6 months ago, Falling in Reverse, absolutely no big outcry or attempt to cancel them, lots of excited press headlines of first UK tour, playing all the big venues, the Home Office decided to ban them. For those that don't know lead singer of Falling in Reverse involved in a murder, domestic abuse, etc. They are way bigger than Bobby V or Kneecap.

    Marilyn Manson was found not guilty of crimes. He is, according to his own statements about his behaviour, a really nasty piece of work.

    Your regular reminder that legal != decent and reputations are worth something.
    Is that not what I said?

    My point was rather that there was no public outcry over Falling in Reverse. That guy claimed he turned his life around and yet back at it. They had sold out places like Wembley, they get massive crowds at all the big festivals in Europe.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,370
    The other thing is, the more mainstream an event gets, the more it begins to portray the disputes in society as a whole.

    So if we live in more polarised times than ever, you'll have Rod Stewart endorsing Reform, and others furious about Palestine, to a provocative extent. These are just mirrors to society.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,108
    carnforth said:

    Another one for the list of stuff the government and civil service should have been on top of years ago:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c20rrdjvpexo

    "Food delivery apps to tighten checks to stop illegal workers"

    Why aren't these scams (c.f the Romanian fake student loans earlier this year) dealt with as they develop, rather than only after they've burgeoned? Especially when primary legislation is note required.

    Illegal workers riding illegal electric bikes. Zooming past the Mayor of West Yorkshire's office every couple of minutes. The mayor is also responsible for policing. And fuck all is done about them.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 12,064
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Rather that than the Russians and the Iranians.
    Or the Scots?
    You're arguing that England should revert to coal because otherwise John Swinney will be able to turn the lights off?

    Don't threaten me with a good time!
    you equate john swinney turning the lights off with having a good time? thats some fetish
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,257
    While one who sings with his tongue on fire

    Gargles in the rat race choir

    Bent out of shape from society’s pliers

    Cares not to come up any higher

    But rather get you down in the hole

    That he’s in
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892
    Pagan2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Rather that than the Russians and the Iranians.
    Or the Scots?
    You're arguing that England should revert to coal because otherwise John Swinney will be able to turn the lights off?

    Don't threaten me with a good time!
    you equate john swinney turning the lights off with having a good time? thats some fetish
    Marginally better than keeping them on I should imagine.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,134
    edited June 30

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    Never mind gas being baked in, the government is supporting new build CCGT and blue hydrogen plants that will create new demand for natural gas. While at the same time blocking the development of additional natural gas reserves to supply their fuel. Hence having to buy Qatari LNG for decades to come. Totally incoherent.
    There's hardly any North Sea gas left, and we take the market price for it whether it extracted here or in Qatar. The new gas plants are just to cover the decommissioning of some of our old ones, and that makes sense given our current route to Net Zero sees us burning some gas all the way into the 2050s.

    But you guys will criticise whatever Miliband does, even when he's opening new fossil fuel plants.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,901

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    How on earth can any government ignore a situation that has created furore across the political spectrum and now involves a criminal investigation

    Kneecap have been in the news for sometime and I doubt either group are enjoying the loss of income and prohibited from performing in the US
    There are presumably hundreds of criminal investigations a day. The govt does not get involved in most of them.

    Also, that a police investigation has been started means very little. If a lot of people make a fuss the police will look into something.
    The government is not involved in the police investigation and you should know that

    Where the government are involved, as stated by Lisa Nandy in the HOC is the behaviour of the BBC
    I didn't say the govt was involved in the police investigation.

    You said the govt couldn't ignore the situation, in part, because there is an investigation. I was questioning your logic there.

    I don't think the govt should be involved every time the BBC makes a mistake.
    The BBC is publically funded and comes under the department of culture and sport so of course the government is involved even if you want to brush it under the carpet
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,964
    dixiedean said:

    While one who sings with his tongue on fire

    Gargles in the rat race choir

    Bent out of shape from society’s pliers

    Cares not to come up any higher

    But rather get you down in the hole

    That he’s in

    And if my thought-dreams could be seen
    They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
    But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only
  • xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz Posts: 116
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Series 3 of Tehran is available in the US but not internationally for geopolitical reasons. Series 4 is being rewriten for the same reason. Filmed in Athens. Series 3 should be released internationally this year. Maybe available as torrent on pirate bay if desperate.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,803

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    That seems quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
    - They won't all need replacing at the same time, obviously.
    - The expensive supporting infrastructure (eg cabling to offshore farms) is in place and not going away
    - Improvements in grid interconnects (and growth in battery storage) will enable higher future capacity utilisation
    - New nuclear builds will be approaching completion
    - There will be more competition from solar
    - The technology, and maintenance knowledge will continue to advance

    None of that means that wind will remain economic if cheaper sources come along, but the industry is very unlikely to have future governments "over a barrel", IMO.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30
    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Series 3 of Tehran is available in the US but not internationally for geopolitical reasons. Series 4 is being rewriten for the same reason. Filmed in Athens. Series 3 should be released internationally this year. Maybe available as torrent on pirate bay if desperate.

    Link?

    Because

    in May 2025, Apple TV+ has not yet announced the release date for season 3 of Tehran.

    More googling, you are right it is in the can, Huge Laurie apparently joins the cast.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,824
    I assume they are as talented as Jedward.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,257

    dixiedean said:

    While one who sings with his tongue on fire

    Gargles in the rat race choir

    Bent out of shape from society’s pliers

    Cares not to come up any higher

    But rather get you down in the hole

    That he’s in

    And if my thought-dreams could be seen
    They’d probably put my head in a guillotine
    But it’s alright, Ma, it’s life, and life only
    Obscenity! Who really cares?
    Propaganda all is phoney.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 4,987

    eek said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
    Is anyone saying they shouldn't cover it? Or are people just questioning why they feel they need so many to cover it....surely a reporter a cameraman and a sound person should suffice for the entire festival....not a couple of hundred
    The BBC was not covering Glastonbury as a news item, it was broadcasting it. Of course that needed lots of people.
    They needed reportedly 0.2% of the audience to be bbc employees to broadcast it...sorry even if broadcasting I don't see you need 400 staff there
    When did you become an expect in broadcasting?

    The beeb covered some of the work required last week see https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/behindtheheadlines/staffing
    The issue with this is the same as when people criticise their news coverage. There used to be a program (News watch?) where a talking beeboid would say 'we think we got it about right' whenever challenged. Of course the been thinking they need 400 staff, and it's definitely not a jolly for any of them...
    I used to enjoy their Glastonbury coverage back when it was maybe just John Peel in a tent saying "That band were great!".

    I think I associate the demise with the contrasting rise of 'Brit Pop'. When they felt the need for interviews, behind the scenes coverage, 'red button' extras, free tickets for their mates. Always vaguely felt like they all wanted to be going to the in parties so they could write a column for Loaded.

    But instead they were doing the mid-afternoon filler "And now, here's an interview with my slightly more famous colleague interviewing someone a bit more famous than them about how an even more famous person was on stage."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,964
    edited June 30
    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.
  • xyzxyzxyzxyzxyzxyz Posts: 116
    edited June 30

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Series 3 of Tehran is available in the US but not internationally for geopolitical reasons. Series 4 is being rewriten for the same reason. Filmed in Athens. Series 3 should be released internationally this year. Maybe available as torrent on pirate bay if desperate.

    Link?

    Because

    in May 2025, Apple TV+ has not yet announced the release date for season 3 of Tehran.

    More googling, you are right it is in the can, Huge Laurie apparently joins the case.
    Source Grok. Could be AI hallucination!

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,803

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    Yes. It's f***ing shit. And the mendacious shysters who promote it need to be called out for the country-wreckers they are.
    Your climate change denial is still moronic
    Our climate change policy adds to net world carbon by choosing tankers of foreign LNG over lower carbon North sea oil. That is moronic - it literally has no value except to f**k the country over. Naturally you support it because you have the capacity for independent thought of a breezeblock and you need to wait for Sir Useless to make a speech before you can have an opinion.
    Maybe so, but your climate change denial is still moronic.

    Obviously the future position is no foreign LNG and no north sea oil for energy.
    No it isn't, Gas is baked into our system for backup generation, so it is needed, and we choose higher carbon foreign imports over domestically produced energy which releases less carbon.

    Learn to think for yourself, then maybe you won't be humiliated by agreeing with Sir Deportation that migrants should all go home only to have him apologise for making such an awful speech a month later.
    Gas is baked into our system at present, yes. The future will need it not to be.

    Your last paragraph is so incorrect it’s laughable. I stand by my own opinions thank you very much.
    Never mind gas being baked in, the government is supporting new build CCGT and blue hydrogen plants that will create new demand for natural gas. While at the same time blocking the development of additional natural gas reserves to supply their fuel. Hence having to buy Qatari LNG for decades to come. Totally incoherent.
    Totally agree.
    Funding "blue" hydrogen production is risible nonsense.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    xyzxyzxyz said:

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Series 3 of Tehran is available in the US but not internationally for geopolitical reasons. Series 4 is being rewriten for the same reason. Filmed in Athens. Series 3 should be released internationally this year. Maybe available as torrent on pirate bay if desperate.

    Link?

    Because

    in May 2025, Apple TV+ has not yet announced the release date for season 3 of Tehran.

    More googling, you are right it is in the can, Huge Laurie apparently joins the case.
    Source Grok. Could be AI hallucination!

    According to Wikipedia it has been shown in Israel.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,964
    ohnotnow said:

    eek said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I'd never heard of Bob Vylan until yesterday, or Kneecap until a couple of weeks ago, but they must be loving all the publicity. Starmer, Nandy and others would have been well advised to totally ignore the furore whipped up, rather than contributing to it. Politicians don't have to give an opinion on everything. It really is nothing new for popular musicians to be subversive and controversial, and it really shouldn't be a matter for the criminal law.
    Best ignored.

    Perhaps in future less of my much resented licence fee will go towards Glastonbury jollies for BBC presenters.
    If enough people watch Glastonbury why shouldn't the BBC cover it, notwithstanding Bob Vylan (whoever they might be).

    My big beef with the BBC is as some third rate reporter gets bumped up to lunchtime news presenter their salary rises to £250,000.

    Mind you the BBC does have an effective salary structure for minions. A bit over minimum wage and contract renewal with a few weeks break every six months to unhitch any continuity benefits.
    Is anyone saying they shouldn't cover it? Or are people just questioning why they feel they need so many to cover it....surely a reporter a cameraman and a sound person should suffice for the entire festival....not a couple of hundred
    The BBC was not covering Glastonbury as a news item, it was broadcasting it. Of course that needed lots of people.
    They needed reportedly 0.2% of the audience to be bbc employees to broadcast it...sorry even if broadcasting I don't see you need 400 staff there
    When did you become an expect in broadcasting?

    The beeb covered some of the work required last week see https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/behindtheheadlines/staffing
    The issue with this is the same as when people criticise their news coverage. There used to be a program (News watch?) where a talking beeboid would say 'we think we got it about right' whenever challenged. Of course the been thinking they need 400 staff, and it's definitely not a jolly for any of them...
    I used to enjoy their Glastonbury coverage back when it was maybe just John Peel in a tent saying "That band were great!".

    I think I associate the demise with the contrasting rise of 'Brit Pop'. When they felt the need for interviews, behind the scenes coverage, 'red button' extras, free tickets for their mates. Always vaguely felt like they all wanted to be going to the in parties so they could write a column for Loaded.

    But instead they were doing the mid-afternoon filler "And now, here's an interview with my slightly more famous colleague interviewing someone a bit more famous than them about how an even more famous person was on stage."
    It mirrors the decline in sports coverage. If they had airtime to fill during Wimbledon or the Olympics, they used to just show a match on one of the outside courts or a minor event but at a certain point light entertainment took over.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,803

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    They probably couldn't.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,656

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    It's funny how they have de boiggest Oirish names, as well.

    The ones they've chosen are comic enough but maybe a splinter-band could be formed: the Armalite Arpeggios of Ardoyne.

    Such talent. With Séamasán Mac Scraoilteáin na nGéag, Bábóg Ó Fhrithscreadáin an Tóin Rua and Toirdhealbhach Bán Ó Gloinchín na mBrocán front and centre as their lead singer-songwriters.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30
    Nigelb said:

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    They probably couldn't.
    They appear to have one catchy one track that came out several years ago, but it is still draw by crayons stuff.

    A cynic might think they need to keep causing a fuss to get noticed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    It's funny how they have de boiggest Oirish names, as well.

    The ones they've chosen are comic enough but maybe a splinter-band could be formed: the Armalite Arpeggios of Ardoyne.

    Such talent. With Séamasán Mac Scraoilteáin na nGéag, Bábóg Ó Fhrithscreadáin an Tóin Rua and Toirdhealbhach Bán Ó Gloinchín na mBrocán front and centre as their lead singer-songwriters.
    Tea cozy boy wears the thing because he is really a balding middle aged Grammar school teacher.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,101
    @elonmusk

    It is obvious with the insane spending of this bill, which increases the debt ceiling by a record FIVE TRILLION DOLLARS that we live in a one-party country – the PORKY PIG PARTY!!

    Time for a new political party that actually cares about the people.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,101
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,793

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    n
    It's funny how they have de boiggest Oirish names, as well.

    The ones they've chosen are comic enough but maybe a splinter-band could be formed: the Armalite Arpeggios of Ardoyne.

    Such talent. With Séamasán Mac Scraoilteáin na nGéag, Bábóg Ó Fhrithscreadáin an Tóin Rua and Toirdhealbhach Bán Ó Gloinchín na mBrocán front and centre as their lead singer-songwriters.
    Súnìl Ó Prásánnàn
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,528
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Indeed.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,909
    edited June 30
    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,370

    xyzxyzxyz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tehran, the series

    Relentlessly bleak, right to the end

    Superb, 9/10

    Doesn't appear like a Season 3 anytime soon. The main actress have been busy having children and as far as I can tell nothing have been arranged to film.
    FUCKSAKE
    Series 3 of Tehran is available in the US but not internationally for geopolitical reasons. Series 4 is being rewriten for the same reason. Filmed in Athens. Series 3 should be released internationally this year. Maybe available as torrent on pirate bay if desperate.

    Link?

    Because

    in May 2025, Apple TV+ has not yet announced the release date for season 3 of Tehran.

    More googling, you are right it is in the can, Huge Laurie apparently joins the cast.
    If Huge Laurie is going to be in, that'll be sure to draw in the female viewers.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,101
    @elonmusk

    Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

    And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,683
    Scott_xP said:
    A less controversial line up than 2025.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,824
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    I think this is true; however, I still think it's quite possible that this person has committed a criminal offence.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,785

    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    Translation: With enough pressure we think we can get the government to borrow even more money than we do already at the expense of generations who are not yet born and don't vote. Labour won't be in power for ever anyway so we will leave it to be someone else's problem. We shall then blame them for the fiscal mess.
  • My middle lad got offered work as a backstage photographer at Glasto this year, but turned it down to work in the photo pit for Linkin Park at Wembley instead. He's done a few festivals and BBC Radio events already this year. He always makes the same comment to me that the festivals mostly have white faces in the crowd but the companies he freelances for make a point of telling him they want diversity in his crowd photos/videos. And pretty girls. Obviously.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,035
    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

    And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.

    At risk of being callous, that would seem a win/win scenario.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,020
    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

    And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.

    Given the focus on edgy musicians today,

    Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,461
    edited June 30
    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    Translation: With enough pressure we think we can get the government to borrow even more money than we do already at the expense of generations who are not yet born and don't vote. Labour won't be in power for ever anyway so we will leave it to be someone else's problem. We shall then blame them for the fiscal mess.
    I think the translation is - I didn't spend x years campaigning to be a Labour MP for you to screw the finances of core labour voters..

    Basically they need to save money and increase taxes and they've gone about both in such a cack-handed that it's awkward to support.

    Worse there are 200+ MPs angling for promotion into Government so it's becoming obvious to many that they are never going to get a seat at the Government table (one of the few upsides for the CV) so they may as well rebel...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,467
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,020
    Nigelb said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    That seems quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
    - They won't all need replacing at the same time, obviously.
    - The expensive supporting infrastructure (eg cabling to offshore farms) is in place and not going away
    - Improvements in grid interconnects (and growth in battery storage) will enable higher future capacity utilisation
    - New nuclear builds will be approaching completion
    - There will be more competition from solar
    - The technology, and maintenance knowledge will continue to advance

    None of that means that wind will remain economic if cheaper sources come along, but the industry is very unlikely to have future governments "over a barrel", IMO.
    Besides, if you think 30 years is an alarmingly finite lifespan for a wind turbine or solar panel, you should find out how long a barrel of hydrocarbons lasts...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,528

    James Heale
    @JAHeale
    ·
    1h
    Stressed Westminster publican: “I miss the Tories. This lot are so rude”
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338

    SandraMc said:

    I find it ironic that Bob Vylan, who seems to have an antipathy to Jews and White people should take his name from a white, Jewish musician (who won a Noble prize for literature).

    Bob Vylan is a band name for a duo, not an individual. Despite the name, they've said they're not big Dylan fans.
    Is it pronounced vie-lan or villain?

    I read it as the former.

    If the latter, perhaps they are Aston Villa fans?
    Obviously wrong uns in that case.
  • carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    'Israel forever. Death to all Palestinians'. That would fit. Not hard to get the point I think.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,824
    edited June 30
    I reckon what proceeded the IDF stuff was quite a bit worse:

    https://x.com/londonette/status/1939653789117809060

    Using the word Zionist doesn't hide the fact that you are, in fact, a massive racist.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,257
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    Indeed.
    And specific violence was well underway rather than completely imaginary.
    So the comparison isn't apposite at all.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,053

    Nigelb said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    That seems quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
    - They won't all need replacing at the same time, obviously.
    - The expensive supporting infrastructure (eg cabling to offshore farms) is in place and not going away
    - Improvements in grid interconnects (and growth in battery storage) will enable higher future capacity utilisation
    - New nuclear builds will be approaching completion
    - There will be more competition from solar
    - The technology, and maintenance knowledge will continue to advance

    None of that means that wind will remain economic if cheaper sources come along, but the industry is very unlikely to have future governments "over a barrel", IMO.
    Besides, if you think 30 years is an alarmingly finite lifespan for a wind turbine or solar panel, you should find out how long a barrel of hydrocarbons lasts...
    CCGT power stations also have a limited life - of about 25-30 years design life. You can keep them going for longer, but maintenance gets increasingly expensive.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,909
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    True. But Hamas/IDS are both combatant armed forces in a foreign war. That's mainly what I was getting at.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,892
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u6_ei8VOZ64&t=90s&pp=2AFakAIB&t=2m25s

    Kemi speaking sense on the Welfare Reform bill, and opening up some clear blue water between the Tories and Reform.

    @Casino_Royale should be pleased.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338
    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    True. But Hamas/IDS are both combatant armed forces in a foreign war. That's mainly what I was getting at.
    Don’t worry, the Met Police would have agreed with you anyway.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,183
    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    True. But Hamas/IDS are both combatant armed forces in a foreign war. That's mainly what I was getting at.
    Feck, IDS has gone a bit off reservation!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,370
    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    There's anofhdf problem here, though, as well.. The top brass of the IDF could also be implicated if the ICC case against Netanyahu and Gallant is followed up, which it should be. Moral clarity is in shirt supply in this one.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,949

    My middle lad got offered work as a backstage photographer at Glasto this year, but turned it down to work in the photo pit for Linkin Park at Wembley instead. He's done a few festivals and BBC Radio events already this year. He always makes the same comment to me that the festivals mostly have white faces in the crowd but the companies he freelances for make a point of telling him they want diversity in his crowd photos/videos. And pretty girls. Obviously.

    I have been to loads of festivals, Glastonbury, Latitude, Download, The Big Chill, Festival, The Blue Dot, Leeds and a few others over the 4 decades. Whether Indy, Dance, Electronica, Rap or Heavy Metal it is a very white audience, though different age and SE groups. Download is the least posh I think, but that's Heavy Metal for you.

    Anyone surprised that a Northern Irish band called Kneecap has controversial views on political violence really hasn't engaged much brain. Get down with the kids grandpa!

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,370
    Or even short supply, or another one. Almost as egregious as Huge Laurie.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,338

    kinabalu said:

    carnforth said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    Hamas is proscribed. The IDF is not. So it's not quite opposite.
    True. But Hamas/IDS are both combatant armed forces in a foreign war. That's mainly what I was getting at.
    Feck, IDS has gone a bit off reservation!
    He’s a bona fide MAMIL now.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,909
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    I think this is true; however, I still think it's quite possible that this person has committed a criminal offence.
    It is possible. And the law will take its course. I was just seeking to rebut this false Connolly equivalence that seems to have traction in places.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,803
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    Translation: With enough pressure we think we can get the government to borrow even more money than we do already at the expense of generations who are not yet born and don't vote. Labour won't be in power for ever anyway so we will leave it to be someone else's problem. We shall then blame them for the fiscal mess.
    I think the translation is - I didn't spend x years campaigning to be a Labour MP for you to screw the finances of core labour voters..

    l...
    ..want to screw the country's finances instead.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,528
    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1939771504931246323
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,803

    Nigelb said:

    Trump's America tying itself to the albatross of fossil fuels as China advances at pace into the middle 21st century:


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    Ok, so Republicans just introduced a 900 page bill none of them have read. But my team is going through it line by line and on this 🧵you can see the hidden provisions we found. Will update all day.


    Chris Murphy 🟧

    @ChrisMurphyCT
    ·
    2h
    2/ It was bad enough they cut all the tax incentives for wind and solar energy - they added a NEW TAX on these projects to make sure America never builds any new renewables.

    Remember, Trump promised the oil industry provisions like this in exchange for a $1B campaign donation.

    https://x.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1939702968409866471

    We should do the same.
    Our politicans pat themselves on the back for getting up to 75% at times of our lecky from the wind. Job done.

    But that wind and solar has a lifespan of c. 30 years. Some of it is a chunk of the way through its lifespan. Its all going to need replacing - from the ground up. And all the supply contracts will need renegotiating.

    And they'll have the government of the day over a (non-hydrocarbon) barrel.
    That seems quite unlikely for a number of reasons.
    - They won't all need replacing at the same time, obviously.
    - The expensive supporting infrastructure (eg cabling to offshore farms) is in place and not going away
    - Improvements in grid interconnects (and growth in battery storage) will enable higher future capacity utilisation
    - New nuclear builds will be approaching completion
    - There will be more competition from solar
    - The technology, and maintenance knowledge will continue to advance

    None of that means that wind will remain economic if cheaper sources come along, but the industry is very unlikely to have future governments "over a barrel", IMO.
    Besides, if you think 30 years is an alarmingly finite lifespan for a wind turbine or solar panel, you should find out how long a barrel of hydrocarbons lasts...
    30 years is probably a bit over the average lifespan of a new N Sea oilfield ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 66,528

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    Every member of Congress who campaigned on reducing government spending and then immediately voted for the biggest debt increase in history should hang their head in shame!

    And they will lose their primary next year if it is the last thing I do on this Earth.

    Given the focus on edgy musicians today,

    Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?
    How long before he gets a visit from ICE?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,683

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1939771504931246323

    Has Pesto ever been wrong?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,461
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    Translation: With enough pressure we think we can get the government to borrow even more money than we do already at the expense of generations who are not yet born and don't vote. Labour won't be in power for ever anyway so we will leave it to be someone else's problem. We shall then blame them for the fiscal mess.
    I think the translation is - I didn't spend x years campaigning to be a Labour MP for you to screw the finances of core labour voters..

    l...
    ..want to screw the country's finances instead.

    We are going to continually return to my point that the biggest mistake of this Government was to not reverse the 4p of vaguely budgetted for Employee NI cuts..
  • eekeek Posts: 30,461

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1939771504931246323

    Has Pesto ever been wrong?
    Is a stopped clock correct twice a day?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,824
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Leon said:

    “Kill the IDF” and “fuck the British” rappers Bob Vylan have had their visas revoked and can’t tour the USA. They have also been abandoned by agents and management.

    Go woke, go broke

    I’m all for free speech and I’m also all for capitalism teaching stiff lessons to hateful morons

    I wonder if Glasto will ever quite recover from this

    It's funny how the free speech zealots in America are cancelling or declining to issue so many visas over hurty words.

    Writing as someone who watched precisely none of the Glastonbury coverage, I'd not miss it if it were gone but am puzzled why the BBC did not simply put a short delay on the feed.

    What happened to the other lot? Kneecap, was it? Did they go ahead? Were they miffed at being upstaged by these newcomers?

    DJL's 17th law of life. If you set out to be offensive, be aware that you might succeed.
    I have no support for the current authoritarian kleptocracy in the USA at all; but as a supporter of free speech (as I can best understand it - see PB debates passim) I don't think there is any relationship between the idea of the right to free speech (excellent) and the idea of the right to free speech without personal consequences (entirely meaningless).

    You have a right to free speech; I have a right to act in response to what it is you say. And vice versa.

    Tolerance of free speech is not remotely the same as respect for opinions uttered.
    Yes, but is it constitutional for the US executive to cancel visas on the basis of political expression which is perfectly legal - and constitutionally protected - in the US ?
    I think they will make the case that all visas are issued solely at the discretion of the executive. So, they can do this,

    It is however staggeringly hypocritical to do this while threatening European officials over their insufficient commitment to free speech.
    Which is really the original point being made.
    It's quite strange.

    GB News are demanding that they be treated just the same as Lucy Connolly, and charged.

    I thought the idea was that LC had been treated unjustly and must be released.

    Do rappers at Glasto not get free speech?
    I think we've established that Lucy Connolly and Bob Vylan are equal levels of unpleasant. I suppose the argument is "if you're going to get jailed for being unpleasant, let's not restrict it to right-wing unpleasant."

    Personally I'd go with jailing neither rather than both. But I'd also prefer it if neither were afforded any particular cultural significance.
    Of unpleasant, perhaps, but their actions aren't equivalent.

    The opposite equivalent of BV would be a musician at a festival leading a chant of "Israel forever. Death to Hamas."

    The opposite equivalent of Connolly would be a BLM activist calling for specific violent action in England against innocent white people whilst such action was getting underway.
    I think this is true; however, I still think it's quite possible that this person has committed a criminal offence.
    It is possible. And the law will take its course. I was just seeking to rebut this false Connolly equivalence that seems to have traction in places.
    Ricky Jones is the equivalent, if that ever comes to trial and he is convicted. FWIW, I think she should have pleaded not guilty and taken her chances with a jury.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,175
    edited June 30
    tlg86 said:

    I reckon what proceeded the IDF stuff was quite a bit worse:

    https://x.com/londonette/status/1939653789117809060

    Using the word Zionist doesn't hide the fact that you are, in fact, a massive racist.

    I have been pointing this out, but it has all been missed in the noise about one chant. It was an antisemitic rant about a very famous music promoter / organiser who has raised billions for charity for causes from starvation in Africa to AIDs Awareness to Amnesty International.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,375

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    n
    It's funny how they have de boiggest Oirish names, as well.

    The ones they've chosen are comic enough but maybe a splinter-band could be formed: the Armalite Arpeggios of Ardoyne.

    Such talent. With Séamasán Mac Scraoilteáin na nGéag, Bábóg Ó Fhrithscreadáin an Tóin Rua and Toirdhealbhach Bán Ó Gloinchín na mBrocán front and centre as their lead singer-songwriters.
    Súnìl Ó Prásánnàn
    To be sure, to be sure.

    But are youse a Protestant Hindu or a Catholic Hindu?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,949
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/peston/status/1939771504931246323

    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    ...

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    Translation: With enough pressure we think we can get the government to borrow even more money than we do already at the expense of generations who are not yet born and don't vote. Labour won't be in power for ever anyway so we will leave it to be someone else's problem. We shall then blame them for the fiscal mess.
    I think the translation is - I didn't spend x years campaigning to be a Labour MP for you to screw the finances of core labour voters..

    l...
    ..want to screw the country's finances instead.

    We are going to continually return to my point that the biggest mistake of this Government was to not reverse the 4p of vaguely budgetted for Employee NI cuts..
    Their biggest mistake was to so concentrate on the Ming Vase strategy that they had no financial flexibility by pledges on income tax, NI etc. They simply had no plan, and even a year later they seem to have none. Running a government on the basis of 5 year forecasts on spending and tax is just daft.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,101
    Vanilla really did their best to mess up the site access. It's painful
  • eekeek Posts: 30,461

    dixiedean said:

    Kneecap are going to have to up their game.

    They could start by trying to write decent songs.
    n
    It's funny how they have de boiggest Oirish names, as well.

    The ones they've chosen are comic enough but maybe a splinter-band could be formed: the Armalite Arpeggios of Ardoyne.

    Such talent. With Séamasán Mac Scraoilteáin na nGéag, Bábóg Ó Fhrithscreadáin an Tóin Rua and Toirdhealbhach Bán Ó Gloinchín na mBrocán front and centre as their lead singer-songwriters.
    Súnìl Ó Prásánnàn
    To be sure, to be sure.

    But are youse a Protestant Hindu or a Catholic Hindu?
    Checks colours painted on the nearest curbs
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,375

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    The underlying discontent among rebellious and even loyal Labour MPs stems from what many would say is a pathetically late discovery: that what’s driving so much government policy is Rachel Reeves’s fiscal rules and the absolute power of the Office for Budget Responsibility in determining whether she is breaching those rules or not.

    So whatever the outcome of the vote tomorrow on the welfare reforms, Reeves and Starmer are now under enormous pressure - probably irresistible pressure - to lose their OBR religion.

    https://x.com/Peston/status/1939771504931246323

    Has Pesto ever been wrong?
    Well, he is wrong about anything involving numbers, always. And his attempts at photographic analysis were a fail as well.

    Gell-Mann amnesia effect?
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