Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Who will be Tory leader at the next general election? – politicalbetting.com

12346»

Comments

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048

    tlg86 said:

    I look forward to watching "we'll chase anything" England in the fourth innings on this pitch.

    Id back them to get anything under 350
    Depends on Bumrah’s bowling.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,109
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Sitrep: Cornwall

    First visit in a year. Feeling quite prosperous. Ok the sun is out and it’s June and I’m in one of the loveliest corners of a lovely county - right now the Trelissick Estate

    But it feels nice. I’ve noticed they’ve started doing the French thing in making the roundabouts look beautiful and unique and relevant to the local history. Presumably that’s the brilliant new Reform councillors at work, already

    These things seem so trivial. But they are so powerful. The “hanging baskets” version of “broken windows theory”. If you make your area look agreeable then it cheers people up and they go home and they thing “oh I live somewhere pleasant” and that increases positivity overall - and you’re less likely to trash your environs

    This stuff is pretty easy, I have no idea why Labour aren’t all over it

    For balance I will go into Truro town centre - which a year ago was looking really shabby

    Do you fly there from London?
    He went by train yesterday without a cork screw to open his possibly £8 bottle of red
    Cune Reserva Rioja

    £15 from Waitrose (which is where I got it online)

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/products/cune-rioja-reserva-075985

    £12-£20 is the sweet spot for red wine
    My pal who knows a bit about wine says the Château La Garde 2017 on sale at Aldi for £9.99 is a great bargain. He bought 14 bottles in one go.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901

    tlg86 said:

    I look forward to watching "we'll chase anything" England in the fourth innings on this pitch.

    Id back them to get anything under 350
    Depends on Bumrah’s bowling.
    450 then 😉
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,951
    edited June 23
    Taz said:

    Stereodog said:

    Eabhal said:

    Bemusing to see pro-terrorist "protestors" object to being labelled as terrorists themselves, just because they engaged in an act of terrorism.

    Peaceful protest doesn't include being violent. Turn violent and that's terrorism, not protest.

    Do you think spray painting some RAF jets is terrorism? Do you think coming out to support the spray paiting of RAF jets in terrorism?

    I'm starting to get quite concerned about the terrorists over in my local Church of Scotland congregation. Great scones though.
    I think violence to further political aims is terrorism, yes.

    Don't you?

    If your congregation are engaging in violence, then yes they're terrorists, if they're not then what point are you trying to make?
    There has to be a moral judgement in there somewhere. Otherwise by your definition you'd have to class the Suffragettes as terrorists. Maybe by strict definition they are but only a zealot would make no distinction between them and Baader-Meinhof
    Like all one-word summaries, "terrorism" covers a multitude of sins, from massive to trivial. I think most people think of the more serious cases involving deaths, injuries and massive disruption. I'm against spray-painting planes, but it's not useful to call it terrorism.
    Call it what it is, Crimjnal damage and prosecute accordingly

    Although reports I have read said this wasn’t the only issue arising to cause them being proscribed.

    After all no one is calling for JSO to be categorised as a terror group.

    BTW I hope your recent wedding went well and everyone had a great time.
    AIUI JSO have changed their methods, have they not - and are no longer launching attacks on infrastructure and society which have consequences such as preventing ambulances reaching hospital, lids stranded, or resulting in acoidable traffic collisions? So the question is moot.

    From Wiki:

    On 27 March 2025, the group announced its intention to disband in April 2025 and regroup using less adversarial campaign strategies.

    It's a pretty rhetoric that not beating up or blowing up people yourselves is non-violent, just because you can't actually see the people you are hurting. It is also a lie, and that is roughly where I have been arguing the line should be drawn for some time. It makes me unpopular with some in the active travel lobby, where quite a few come from the practical end of the Green tradition.

    They tried to go beyond demonstrations and went too far. Prison sentences for their founder, and a few others, has worked wonders in this case.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,763

    IanB2 said:

    How have Labour managed to tie themselves in knots over support for the US action and whether its legal?!
    They are just inane and rudderless

    Bad as the Tories were at politics in their tail-spin term end, Labour are worse: just a nationl embarrassment.
    Sunaks administration was immense compared to this shower of shit, even May and early Boris were

    Edit - 'immense' is perhaps overdoing it 😆
    Steady on….
    I know I know.
    They are dreadful enough that my rose tinted mirror is rosier than ever
    That your new partner is no good in bed is not a decent reason to return to an abusive relationship.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,394
    Off topic: Anyone know what is the actual (rather than theoretical) likelihood of problems with police or insurance when driving a car with a stop-drive recall order? It looks like the replacement airbags will take a month.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    BBC News - Scottish wingsuit flyer dies during Swiss Alps jump
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyepy2zz11o

    Always feels like an activity that is a when not if.

    Compared to base jumping and cave diving, it's actually pretty safe.
    I am happy to give those two a miss as well....
    A few years ago, being in the insurance business, I came across some stats on "death or serious injury per 1,000 incidences".

    The things I took out of this were:

    (1) My children will never be allowed to own motorcycles
    (2) Skydiving is surprisingly safe
    (3) Cave diving and base jumping are 10x more dangerous than wing suit flying, which is 100x more dangerous than a regular parachute jump
    (4) Don't ever let your kids get into free climbing
    Scuba diving is surprisingly dangerous. More fatalities than almost any sport I believe
    Yes, I know of people who have died cave diving and climbing sea cliffs and the wingsuit flyer death sadly follows 2 skydiving deaths last week.

    Motorcycling deaths and serious injuries are also very common, riders of motorbikes are 50 times more likely to die in a crash than car drivers and have a death rate nine times that of cyclists and pedestrians too
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4grny12neeo
    https://www.mrhsolicitors.co.uk/statistics-related-to-motorcycle-accidents-in-great-britain/#:~:text=Comparison with Other Road Users,rate nearly nine times higher.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    How have Labour managed to tie themselves in knots over support for the US action and whether its legal?!
    They are just inane and rudderless

    Bad as the Tories were at politics in their tail-spin term end, Labour are worse: just a nationl embarrassment.
    Sunaks administration was immense compared to this shower of shit, even May and early Boris were

    Edit - 'immense' is perhaps overdoing it 😆
    Steady on….
    I know I know.
    They are dreadful enough that my rose tinted mirror is rosier than ever
    That your new partner is no good in bed is not a decent reason to return to an abusive relationship.
    Id say its more my old partner was no good in bed and the new one is abusive (and worse in bed) is a more accurate analogy
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,155
    Eabhal said:

    I'm quite interested in the Palestine Action debate. From the description in the legislation, it's an obvious case of "terrorism" - serious property damage for the purpose of advancing a political cause.

    My instinct is that's a bit too broad a definition. But, like any football fan, what I'm really interested in is consistency of application of the law. If Palestine Action (and their wider supporters) are being prosecuted on this basis, why isn't everyone who took part in the Southport riots, and those online who supported them, being similarly banged up on terrorism charges?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism

    A useful definition of terrorism has to include violent intent I think. If you make it a catch-all for association with any kind of criminal activity you end up banning all political campaigns where someone has been involved in direct action.

    The government can try to stop people damaging military equipment, and should do so. They can pursue the perpetrators through the courts for criminal damage. But this isn't terrorism
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,382

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,705

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,760
    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm quite interested in the Palestine Action debate. From the description in the legislation, it's an obvious case of "terrorism" - serious property damage for the purpose of advancing a political cause.

    My instinct is that's a bit too broad a definition. But, like any football fan, what I'm really interested in is consistency of application of the law. If Palestine Action (and their wider supporters) are being prosecuted on this basis, why isn't everyone who took part in the Southport riots, and those online who supported them, being similarly banged up on terrorism charges?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism

    A useful definition of terrorism has to include violent intent I think. If you make it a catch-all for association with any kind of criminal activity you end up banning all political campaigns where someone has been involved in direct action.

    The government can try to stop people damaging military equipment, and should do so. They can pursue the perpetrators through the courts for criminal damage. But this isn't terrorism
    It's treason.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    edited June 23
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,846
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Sitrep: Cornwall

    First visit in a year. Feeling quite prosperous. Ok the sun is out and it’s June and I’m in one of the loveliest corners of a lovely county - right now the Trelissick Estate

    But it feels nice. I’ve noticed they’ve started doing the French thing in making the roundabouts look beautiful and unique and relevant to the local history. Presumably that’s the brilliant new Reform councillors at work, already

    These things seem so trivial. But they are so powerful. The “hanging baskets” version of “broken windows theory”. If you make your area look agreeable then it cheers people up and they go home and they thing “oh I live somewhere pleasant” and that increases positivity overall - and you’re less likely to trash your environs

    This stuff is pretty easy, I have no idea why Labour aren’t all over it

    For balance I will go into Truro town centre - which a year ago was looking really shabby

    Do you fly there from London?
    He went by train yesterday without a cork screw to open his possibly £8 bottle of red
    My memory's going down the drain because I now remember reading that comment yesterday.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
    Mostly those won under Boris
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    Which is why we are in trouble. Some sort of national government perhaps.
    Or we stagger on till 2029 and Labour are wiped out
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,860
    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,500
    I see that mad Kemi is attacking Net Zero as costing "hundreds of billions of pounds, and nobody even had a chance to vote on it"

    Kemi, were you not in government when this was created? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048
    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
    A decreasing number.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
    Mostly those won under Boris
    No, mostly those won in 2023 and 2024 under Rishi. There only 1000 Boris councillors left of the 4000 or so
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,815
    sarissa said:

    I have to give credit to Reform, they have some genius political communicators working for them. This Britannia card policy is, in political communication terms, almost perfect.

    Compared to what the other parties have put out over the last several years it's on a different level entirely. People are seriously underestimating Reform. I no longer think that 40% at the general election is out of reach.

    £250,000 for 10 years compared with New Zealand's requirement of £2.2 million over three years or £4.4 million over 10 years?

    "Nigel's selling Britain on the cheap"
    Called competition. See also Corporation Tax in Ireland.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,500
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    Then again, it's also very unlikely we will get another Tory majority government for the exact same list of reasons.

    That plank in your eye is fucking massive, isn't it?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,917

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    Which is why we are in trouble. Some sort of national government perhaps.
    Or we stagger on till 2029 and Labour are wiped out
    That Reform do not have stability and sense is neither here nor there, if they become the vehicle of choice to kick out what is a shockingly bad government, then they will win.

    Maybe Labour can turn it around and stop next time being another change election. Personally I can’t see the Tories becoming the brand to benefit from a change election but who knows, it’s a long time still.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    edited June 23

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    Which is why we are in trouble. Some sort of national government perhaps.
    Or we stagger on till 2029 and Labour are wiped out
    It is not impossible if say Cleverly replaced Badenoch as Tory leader before the next GE and at that election the Conservatives held the balance of power between a Labour led government or Reform led government in a hung parliament Cleverly could back Labour. Though most likely the Tories would abstain and let whichever of Labour or Reform won most seats try and form a government and then vote on a bill by bill basis
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,081
    edited June 23
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm quite interested in the Palestine Action debate. From the description in the legislation, it's an obvious case of "terrorism" - serious property damage for the purpose of advancing a political cause.

    My instinct is that's a bit too broad a definition. But, like any football fan, what I'm really interested in is consistency of application of the law. If Palestine Action (and their wider supporters) are being prosecuted on this basis, why isn't everyone who took part in the Southport riots, and those online who supported them, being similarly banged up on terrorism charges?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism

    A useful definition of terrorism has to include violent intent I think. If you make it a catch-all for association with any kind of criminal activity you end up banning all political campaigns where someone has been involved in direct action.

    The government can try to stop people damaging military equipment, and should do so. They can pursue the perpetrators through the courts for criminal damage. But this isn't terrorism
    It's treason.
    It's probably closer to that than terrorism, in my mind. It probably strays over the line of "levy war against our lord the King in his realm". Perhaps motivation is important?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,155
    edited June 23
    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm quite interested in the Palestine Action debate. From the description in the legislation, it's an obvious case of "terrorism" - serious property damage for the purpose of advancing a political cause.

    My instinct is that's a bit too broad a definition. But, like any football fan, what I'm really interested in is consistency of application of the law. If Palestine Action (and their wider supporters) are being prosecuted on this basis, why isn't everyone who took part in the Southport riots, and those online who supported them, being similarly banged up on terrorism charges?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism

    A useful definition of terrorism has to include violent intent I think. If you make it a catch-all for association with any kind of criminal activity you end up banning all political campaigns where someone has been involved in direct action.

    The government can try to stop people damaging military equipment, and should do so. They can pursue the perpetrators through the courts for criminal damage. But this isn't terrorism
    It's treason.
    I thought the definition of treason was committing adultery with the sovereign's consort. Don't think that applies to Palestine Action.

    Given what the sovereign himself was up to on the other hand, I'm not sure they are on firm ground on this one....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,206
    edited June 23
    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    He's awake, and concerned about the price of oil...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,951
    Pulpstar said:

    Tbh I can't see much difference between my local area (Worksop & villages to the north of) either in person in the Google photos from 2015 (2018 in person) to now. It does have a couple of Turkish barbers, but they do cut hair there, for cash ;)

    Ripon OTOH is having it's due to have its Booths replaced by a Tesco. Which is a mahoosive and material downgrade.

    The big drug dealer hunting down and killing the small drug dealers on their Sur-Ron with his Landrover on I highlighted yesterday is an interesting one because it is so unusual for this area. It was about 7 miles away but I can't recall anything like that.

    Even that seems to have been because he was a twatty little 23 year old with no self-control or brain switched on who lost his rag when he wasn't able to indulge in oompa-loompa with his customer in a public layby in peace.

    But his address given is quite the house for someone of that age - 3/4 bed property on a decent estate - if it is his.

    Even though he got off the murder charge, he pled guilty to Death by Dangerous Driving, and that carries up to a life
    sentence.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14743317/Drug-dealer-chased-mother-boyfriend-e-bike-mile-deliberately-running-Land-Rover-murder-trial-told.html

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
    Mostly those won under Boris
    No, mostly those won in 2023 and 2024 under Rishi. There only 1000 Boris councillors left of the 4000 or so
    Some of whom will also have been elected under Boris with all out elections in some councils in 2024 and of course the 2022 council seats Boris won are up next year
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,409
    moonshine said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    Which is why we are in trouble. Some sort of national government perhaps.
    Or we stagger on till 2029 and Labour are wiped out
    That Reform do not have stability and sense is neither here nor there, if they become the vehicle of choice to kick out what is a shockingly bad government, then they will win.

    Maybe Labour can turn it around and stop next time being another change election. Personally I can’t see the Tories becoming the brand to benefit from a change election but who knows, it’s a long time still.
    If only Change UK were still around :lol:
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    moonshine said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    Which is why we are in trouble. Some sort of national government perhaps.
    Or we stagger on till 2029 and Labour are wiped out
    That Reform do not have stability and sense is neither here nor there, if they become the vehicle of choice to kick out what is a shockingly bad government, then they will win.

    Maybe Labour can turn it around and stop next time being another change election. Personally I can’t see the Tories becoming the brand to benefit from a change election but who knows, it’s a long time still.
    No indeed, the Tories only goal for next time is to remain a key party - they need to try and stay in triple figures seats. Meaning they need to right now be working out their 'best 175 to 200' to work
    Labour have lost the room, they won't get it back, they also need to hold as much as possible
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266

    I see that mad Kemi is attacking Net Zero as costing "hundreds of billions of pounds, and nobody even had a chance to vote on it"

    Kemi, were you not in government when this was created? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution

    Kemi is playing with fire, if she pushes too hard against net zero she will lose the former Cleverly and Stride supporters who got her the leadership over Jenrick in the first place

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/04/james-cleverly-kemi-badenoch-net-zero-targets
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,846
    edited June 23
    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    The LDs have already destroyed themselves once in coalition, they aren't going to do it again with HMS Bottom Feeder Labour
  • eekeek Posts: 30,355
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    Mrs Eek spent 2 hours in the fabric shop in Redruth last Monday. I found an open coffee shop to kill time (that was difficult).

    Shall we say based on your description and the locals I saw it’s a very close run thing but I thin Redruth is worse

    Going back to the conversation of being better or worse than 10 years ago - Redruth wasn’t great then, it’s way worse now.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,382
    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    The LDs have already destroyed themselves once in coalition, they aren't going to do it again with HMS Bottom Feeder Labour
    They would give Labour confidence and supply if the alternative is a Tory and Reform government though
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,647
    edited June 23
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    How have Labour managed to tie themselves in knots over support for the US action and whether its legal?!
    They are just inane and rudderless

    Bad as the Tories were at politics in their tail-spin term end, Labour are worse: just a nationl embarrassment.
    Sunaks administration was immense compared to this shower of shit, even May and early Boris were

    Edit - 'immense' is perhaps overdoing it 😆
    Steady on….
    I know I know.
    They are dreadful enough that my rose tinted mirror is rosier than ever
    That your new partner is no good in bed is not a decent reason to return to an abusive relationship.
    When your current partner is an even worse abuser than the previous one it might be.

    Arrogant, complacent, utterly cynical, uncharismatic and entitled even by the standards of our political class, with no political judgement, Starmer is worse than the out-of-his-depth Sunak, or the usually lazy and incompetent but occasionally inspired Johnson, on virtually every metric.

    Calling him a national embarrassment is an insult to other such.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,036

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"

    I really hate this view of the world. You could arrive in this country, do something very worthwhile but relatively low paid (thus not paying much tax), be a fine upstanding member of your community and then be unlucky enough to be struck down with some illness requiring expensive hospital treatment and some kind of state benefits. Equally you could be a rich arsehole who pays loads of money in council tax but contributes nothing to the community.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,860
    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and concerned about the price of oil...

    You could apply for a job in his court so you can monitor his movements more closely.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    Wait. The Conservatives have council seats?
    Mostly those won under Boris
    No, mostly those won in 2023 and 2024 under Rishi. There only 1000 Boris councillors left of the 4000 or so
    Some of whom will also have been elected under Boris with all out elections in some councils in 2024 and of course the 2022 council seats Boris won are up next year
    Boris won just over 1000 councillors in 2022, those are the last seats won under Boris, everyone else was elected or reelected under Sunak or Badenoch in 23, 24 and 25. After next years locals there will be no Boris councillors
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,860
    Stereodog said:

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"

    I really hate this view of the world. You could arrive in this country, do something very worthwhile but relatively low paid (thus not paying much tax), be a fine upstanding member of your community and then be unlucky enough to be struck down with some illness requiring expensive hospital treatment and some kind of state benefits. Equally you could be a rich arsehole who pays loads of money in council tax but contributes nothing to the community.
    People who have used economic arguments to justify mass immigration can't complain when the boot is on the other foot.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    The LDs have already destroyed themselves once in coalition, they aren't going to do it again with HMS Bottom Feeder Labour
    They would give Labour confidence and supply if the alternative is a Tory and Reform government though
    Maybe yes. No coalition though. And more likely they'd prop up a minority until it became expedient to bin it rather than a formal arrangement
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058

    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and concerned about the price of oil...

    You could apply for a job in his court so you can monitor his movements more closely.
    Are you quitting?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,705
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    I think this is on the right lines. IMO the chances of the next government being Labour led - either outright or with help - are very high.

    The biggest danger is Reform slipping through the tactical voting trap because of the number of seats where who to vote for tactically against Reform may be bitterly contested. This gets simplified if the Tories show even the smallest chance of siding with Reform - in which case the tactical vote in England is Labour except where LDs are first or second.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,003

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Sitrep: Cornwall

    First visit in a year. Feeling quite prosperous. Ok the sun is out and it’s June and I’m in one of the loveliest corners of a lovely county - right now the Trelissick Estate

    But it feels nice. I’ve noticed they’ve started doing the French thing in making the roundabouts look beautiful and unique and relevant to the local history. Presumably that’s the brilliant new Reform councillors at work, already

    These things seem so trivial. But they are so powerful. The “hanging baskets” version of “broken windows theory”. If you make your area look agreeable then it cheers people up and they go home and they thing “oh I live somewhere pleasant” and that increases positivity overall - and you’re less likely to trash your environs

    This stuff is pretty easy, I have no idea why Labour aren’t all over it

    For balance I will go into Truro town centre - which a year ago was looking really shabby

    Do you fly there from London?
    He went by train yesterday without a cork screw to open his possibly £8 bottle of red
    Cune Reserva Rioja

    £15 from Waitrose (which is where I got it online)

    https://www.waitrosecellar.com/products/cune-rioja-reserva-075985

    £12-£20 is the sweet spot for red wine
    My pal who knows a bit about wine says the Château La Garde 2017 on sale at Aldi for £9.99 is a great bargain. He bought 14 bottles in one go.
    It's very good, Pessac Leognan but a bit closed so either open it well in advance or leave it a year or so.

    It is the best value claret out there rn.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,409
    edited June 23
    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    Reading it, this seems like a good news story all round and (allegedly*) evidence of Labour policies working.

    *As the Telegraph see this as a bad thing, they're bigging up the Labour role, but I think some of these changes at least predate the present government?

    ETA: Full disclosure - would I own a second home somewhere nice if we had the cash? Possibly, but I can see that it's largely a societal ill and no problem with the government making that a harder thing for me to do.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    I'd expect Reform to gain Basildon, Bedwell, Stocksbridge, Whitworth, and South Staffs. Crediton will be a very close contest between the Lib Dems and Reform, and Chorley a close contest between Labour and Reform.

    The Lib Dems should hold Rother, and Labour Shooters Hill.

    Any of Con, Lab, or SNP, could win the Edinburgh seat.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,036

    Stereodog said:

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"

    I really hate this view of the world. You could arrive in this country, do something very worthwhile but relatively low paid (thus not paying much tax), be a fine upstanding member of your community and then be unlucky enough to be struck down with some illness requiring expensive hospital treatment and some kind of state benefits. Equally you could be a rich arsehole who pays loads of money in council tax but contributes nothing to the community.
    People who have used economic arguments to justify mass immigration can't complain when the boot is on the other foot.
    Well it's lucky that I haven't used that argument then isn't it. Would you support mass immigration if it was proved to be economically beneficial?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Rowley's statement on the PA protest prior to the group's proscription is an absolute mess; one of the worst statements by a MET commissioner I've ever seen tbh.
    He is the MET head, not the Home secretary. Until the 30th June protest in favour of PA is perfectly legal, after it is not - that's all on Cooper though; Rowley could and should have stayed out of it and just policed (or banned after the 30th) the protests.

    Symptomatic of everything unravelling under this government. They've lost the room totally and everything underneath is chaos .
    I'm calling it. They wont make 2029, it will all fall apart long before despite the landslide
    The thought that there is another adequate government in waiting is, I think, delusional. Reform don't have the stability and sense, Tories don't have the makings of a front bench or a coherent view of what they want to do, and the LDs vote distribution (see Gareth of the Vale recently on LD v Reform vote distribution; very useful info) means they can't win whatever happens

    As Sherlock Holmes says, 'once you have eliminated the impossible'..... the only governing party left is Labour.
    After the family farm and small business tax, the winter fuel disaster and u turn and NI rise for employers and continue failure to stop small boats another Labour majority government is also very unlikely. At best they would hope to form a minority government with LD support now
    I think this is on the right lines. IMO the chances of the next government being Labour led - either outright or with help - are very high.

    The biggest danger is Reform slipping through the tactical voting trap because of the number of seats where who to vote for tactically against Reform may be bitterly contested. This gets simplified if the Tories show even the smallest chance of siding with Reform - in which case the tactical vote in England is Labour except where LDs are first or second.
    For Labour to have any chance of re election, as largest party let alone with another majority, they certainly need to squeeze the LD and Green vote and even the Tory vote heavily in their marginal seats against Reform
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,705
    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The only way is the Gazaway.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967
    edited June 23
    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    My father in law told me about a pit village in Durham in the 1970's where father-daughter incest was so rife, that the NCB ended up dispersing the population across the county. You get these dystopian communities that resemble The Hills Have Eyes, here and there.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,901
    Sean_F said:

    Interesting week for local by elections this week with 10 spread right out across the country
    5 x Lab, 2 x Ind, 2x LD and 1x Con defence
    https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1937072584715374866?s=19

    I'd expect Reform to gain Basildon, Bedwell, Stocksbridge, Whitworth, and South Staffs. Crediton will be a very close contest between the Lib Dems and Reform, and Chorley a close contest between Labour and Reform.

    The Lib Dems should hold Rother, and Labour Shooters Hill.

    Any of Con, Lab, or SNP, could win the Edinburgh seat.
    Sounds about right. I haven't delved too deeply but they are all (except Edinburgh) 23 and 24 so it will give some more current view on movements from a lower Con point and a higher Lab one
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,846
    Clever move by Israel.

    "Israel blows gates off Iran’s notorious Evin Prison
    Jail houses Tehran’s political prisoners, and is where Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe was held on bogus espionage charges"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/06/23/israel-blows-gates-off-iran-notorious-evin-prison/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,394
    Stereodog said:

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"

    I really hate this view of the world. You could arrive in this country, do something very worthwhile but relatively low paid (thus not paying much tax), be a fine upstanding member of your community and then be unlucky enough to be struck down with some illness requiring expensive hospital treatment and some kind of state benefits. Equally you could be a rich arsehole who pays loads of money in council tax but contributes nothing to the community.
    Paying loads of money in tax is contributing to the community. It doesn't preclude other kinds of contribution, but it is contributing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,081
    edited June 23
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
    And that is why we have such inequality in housing tenure. It should always be better to invest that cash elsewhere rather than in a house you aren't going to live in.

    The value of the house should come from having a nice place to live, not as a store or generator of wealth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,206
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,851
    Palestine Action protesters have clashed with police in Trafalgar Square after they were banned from protesting outside Parliament.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,206
    I’ve also got the entire 10,000 word history of Duddies Branch uploaded to ElevenLabs so it can be narrated by Sir Laurence Olivier as I stride around the Cornish countryside, as an ominous wind kicks up….

    It is perfectly grim
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,613
    Eabhal said:

    tlg86 said:

    FF43 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I'm quite interested in the Palestine Action debate. From the description in the legislation, it's an obvious case of "terrorism" - serious property damage for the purpose of advancing a political cause.

    My instinct is that's a bit too broad a definition. But, like any football fan, what I'm really interested in is consistency of application of the law. If Palestine Action (and their wider supporters) are being prosecuted on this basis, why isn't everyone who took part in the Southport riots, and those online who supported them, being similarly banged up on terrorism charges?

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/terrorism

    A useful definition of terrorism has to include violent intent I think. If you make it a catch-all for association with any kind of criminal activity you end up banning all political campaigns where someone has been involved in direct action.

    The government can try to stop people damaging military equipment, and should do so. They can pursue the perpetrators through the courts for criminal damage. But this isn't terrorism
    It's treason.
    It's probably closer to that than terrorism, in my mind. It probably strays over the line of "levy war against our lord the King in his realm". Perhaps motivation is important?
    I don't think it comes anywhere near satisfying the criteria for a criminal charge under that bit of the statute.

    But doing (reportedly) tens of millions of pounds of criminal damage, out of what seems to be as much idiocy as malice, should certainly attract some kind of exemplary sentence.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,394
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    We could always evacuate Pitcairn.

    I wonder what the St Kildans got up to on dark winter nights...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,613
    Warning not to mess with Ukrainian zoos.

    Remember the kidnapping of the raccoon from the Kherson zoo?

    So, yesterday, his kidnapper, Oleg Zubkov, a collaborator and owner of the Crimean park "Taigan", had his throat bitten by lions.

    He is connected to an artificial respiration apparatus.

    https://x.com/Maks_NAFO_FELLA/status/1937038126054097183
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,967
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    Some of them in my office block. There are clearly people here, who have never learned how to use a toilet. Many species of animal keep themselves far cleaner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,613
    Ton up for Pant.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    edited June 23
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
    And that is why we have such inequality in housing tenure. It should always be better to invest that cash elsewhere rather than in a house you aren't going to live in.

    The value of the house should come from having a nice place to live, not as a store or generator of wealth.
    No, that is why we have a property owning democracy. Cash spent on meals out, holidays etc always goes whereas invested in bricks and mortar it is a long term investment likely which can produce more income than most shares and savings too.

    Second homes are not buy to lets either but normally holiday homes, so let out they meet the demand from holidaymakers for properties in popular holiday destinations as well as providing an income stream for the owner and a base for weekend and holiday breaks
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,610
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    I doubt it. They don't seem the type of people with the gumption to travel halfway round the world.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,815
    HYUFD said:

    I see that mad Kemi is attacking Net Zero as costing "hundreds of billions of pounds, and nobody even had a chance to vote on it"

    Kemi, were you not in government when this was created? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution

    Kemi is playing with fire, if she pushes too hard against net zero she will lose the former Cleverly and Stride supporters who got her the leadership over Jenrick in the first place

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/04/james-cleverly-kemi-badenoch-net-zero-targets
    No she isn't, she's reading the room. Anyone who can't see the direction of travel on Net Zero is deeply stupid. Obviously that includes supporters of Cleverly and Stride, but most Tory MPs at least have a sort of bovine survival instinct.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,951
    FF43 said:

    .

    Andy_JS said:

    Have we done Nige policy on non-doms?

    "Here’s how it works: every high-net-worth newcomer (or returning leaver) will pay a £250,000 one-off entry contribution in return for a stable, indefinite remittance-style regime on offshore income and a 20-year inheritance-tax shield. Crucially, 100 per cent of this contribution is hypothecated to Britain’s lowest-paid full-time workers, delivered automatically by HMRC as a tax-free cash dividend."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/22/nigel-farage-reform-non-dom-status-help-low-earners/

    He claims it will be £600-1000 a year bribe dividend for 2.5 million people....I presume no furrrneiers will be eligible.

    Clever politics from Farage.
    Actually it is clever. Bait and switch. The scheme is a massive tax dodge for the super rich dressed up as income redistribution.

    Pay us a fixed fee of £250 000, which we will give to people on low incomes. People will only do this, obviously, because they will avoid tax that they would otherwise have to pay. IF THEY CAME TO THIS COUNTRY
    Coming back to this one, it looks like classic Reform-o-Gnomics - a small short term benefit to the country in exchange for a cost that will last a generation, with an enormous black hole in the accounts.

    Is this not straight from the Trump - trickle-up playbook? For example in Trump furiously pointing at BUT BUT BUT LOOK NO TAX ON TIPS, whilst gutting the Health Care system even more than it is gutted already, giving trillions to the top 0.0001%, and having a hidden clause buried in the budget bill to place his regime out of the reach of law?

    I'm not sure if Farage is planning on wrecking the governance checks and balances, but I think we will see some mini-prototypes in County Councils.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,679
    England playing a bit pants at the moment
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,081
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
    And that is why we have such inequality in housing tenure. It should always be better to invest that cash elsewhere rather than in a house you aren't going to live in.

    The value of the house should come from having a nice place to live, not as a store or generator of wealth.
    No, that is why we have a property owning democracy. Cash spent on meals out, holidays etc always goes whereas invested in bricks and mortar it is a long term investment likely which can produce more income than most shares and savings too.

    Second homes are not buy to lets either but normally holiday homes, so let out they meet the demand from holidaymakers for properties in popular holiday destinations as well as providing an income stream for the owner and a base for weekend and holiday breaks
    I think this attitude sums up where it has gone so wrong for the Conservatives. Once, it was all about getting people into their own homes. Now it's about people using homes to generate their income.

    The problem is there are only 3 million landlords in the UK - or 10% of the vote. I guess that's your floor.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,613
    Pulpstar said:

    England playing a bit pants at the moment

    Pant's now unleashed.

    4;6;4 after getting to 100.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,261

    HYUFD said:

    I see that mad Kemi is attacking Net Zero as costing "hundreds of billions of pounds, and nobody even had a chance to vote on it"

    Kemi, were you not in government when this was created? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution

    Kemi is playing with fire, if she pushes too hard against net zero she will lose the former Cleverly and Stride supporters who got her the leadership over Jenrick in the first place

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/04/james-cleverly-kemi-badenoch-net-zero-targets
    No she isn't, she's reading the room. Anyone who can't see the direction of travel on Net Zero is deeply stupid. Obviously that includes supporters of Cleverly and Stride, but most Tory MPs at least have a sort of bovine survival instinct.
    The 'lie' of net zero is that it could be done without cost, at least in the early stages (i.e. where we are now). We are making a conscious choice to use more expensive energy because most of us believe it is the right thing to do. But its not cost free. Ultimately I am a believer that renewable energy will become significantly cheaper and crucially we will find ways to balance the generation and demand and the world will be a better place. But its hard to make that case when energy costs have soared and at least some of the increase is down to Net zero policies.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,830
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
    Second homes are very unpopular in Wales and Local Authorities are applying council tax surcharges, so much so thst local estate agents have seen a large rise in second homes coming on the market

    https://www.conwy.gov.uk/en/Resident/Council-Tax/Council-Tax-Premium-Update.aspx
  • LeonLeon Posts: 62,206

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    I doubt it. They don't seem the type of people with the gumption to travel halfway round the world.
    Er, these people were immigrants into America. Mainly Scotch - often from around Wick - they tended to settle Appalachia. J D Vance country

    It’s the clannish interbred isolation thereafter that leads to the depraved squalor
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266
    edited June 23
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Having it in cash/gifts makes it okay then.

    "How inheriting a second home became the ultimate embarrassment for millennials
    Class-conscious generation resists ‘burdensome’ real estate in favour of cash gifts" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/second-homes/inheriting-second-home-ultimate-embarrassment-millennials/

    In which case they are idiots, cash goes, a second home is a long term investment that can be let out for rental when not in use
    And that is why we have such inequality in housing tenure. It should always be better to invest that cash elsewhere rather than in a house you aren't going to live in.

    The value of the house should come from having a nice place to live, not as a store or generator of wealth.
    No, that is why we have a property owning democracy. Cash spent on meals out, holidays etc always goes whereas invested in bricks and mortar it is a long term investment likely which can produce more income than most shares and savings too.

    Second homes are not buy to lets either but normally holiday homes, so let out they meet the demand from holidaymakers for properties in popular holiday destinations as well as providing an income stream for the owner and a base for weekend and holiday breaks
    I think this attitude sums up where it has gone so wrong for the Conservatives. Once, it was all about getting people into their own homes. Now it's about people using homes to generate their income.

    The problem is there are only 3 million landlords in the UK - or 10% of the vote. I guess that's your floor.
    Given 64.5% of UK households own their own home hardly. Of course second homes are not only used by their owners but the holidaymakers who stay in them in holiday time from cottages in Cornwall and Dorset to former farmhouses in the Cotswolds and Lake District.

    If there was really mass resentment against second home owners Labour would be heading for a second landslide after rising council tax and stamp duty on second home owners under this government, instead it is Reform well ahead given the current mass resentment it seems against foreign immigrants
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,058
    Just got this from our infosec team

    Summary:
    Threat intelligence from multiple government and industry sources indicates a recent uptick in cyber operations linked to Iranian state-affiliated groups, targeting U.S. entities and their global affiliates. These activities are likely in response to evolving geopolitical tensions and may include sophisticated phishing, data theft, ransomware, and destructive attacks aimed at disrupting operations and exfiltrating sensitive data.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,444

    NEW THREAD

  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,745
    I'd like to think Leon will visit Trevaskis Farm on his Cornish odyssey - my parents discovered it in the 1980s and it's an example of a business which has gone from a small farm shop to a serious food venue.

    Owned by the Eustace family, I believe.

    A visit to Jelbert's in Newlyn to be recommended.

    I did love the bit about the floral roundabouts being the initiative of "brilliant Reform councillors". Reform doesn't run Cornwall - the floral roundabouts were probasbly down to the previous Conservative administration who were unceremoniously booted out in May.

    At the moment, most Reform councillors are still struggling to figure out how councils actually work. It's possible they are also being quietly nobbled by senior officers who will ensure they (the councillors) will do what they (the officers) tell them.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,261
    Pulpstar said:

    England playing a bit pants at the moment

    Are they? Recent history suggests this pitch gets easier and easier (as shown by recent 4th innings chases). Only one wicket falling today could be poor bowling, poor catching and brilliant batting, but I'm not convinced 400 is a certain winning target for India.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,220
    Meanwhile.
    The trend for orcas to wear hats of salmon has returned.
    The Eighties are back in a big way.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,048

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    I doubt it. They don't seem the type of people with the gumption to travel halfway round the world.
    But they did. Can't all have been criminals banished to N. America.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,266

    HYUFD said:

    I see that mad Kemi is attacking Net Zero as costing "hundreds of billions of pounds, and nobody even had a chance to vote on it"

    Kemi, were you not in government when this was created? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution

    Kemi is playing with fire, if she pushes too hard against net zero she will lose the former Cleverly and Stride supporters who got her the leadership over Jenrick in the first place

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/04/james-cleverly-kemi-badenoch-net-zero-targets
    No she isn't, she's reading the room. Anyone who can't see the direction of travel on Net Zero is deeply stupid. Obviously that includes supporters of Cleverly and Stride, but most Tory MPs at least have a sort of bovine survival instinct.
    The weather pattern is clear if net zero is abandoned completely

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/heatwave-met-office-weather-temperatures-40-b2771621.html
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,610
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of dystopian towns I think I’ve discovered a community even worse than London, Newent or Wick

    For example, the 238 “hillbilly” individuals who some 30 years ago lived in Duddie’s Branch, an isolated “hollow” in Eastern Kentucky, are an example of a people who were physically unwell, and whose society and culture cannot easily be said to have served them well, but who nevertheless survived and created a world of meaning to which they were committed.

    The inhabitants of this remote mountain valley lived in ramshackle wood and tarpaper shacks along a one-mile stretch of a polluted stream. Their houses had no indoor toilets, and only a few had functioning privies. Most people simply defecated on the ground, leaving their feces to be eaten by their emaciated dogs or to be carried into the river by the frequent rains. In addition to human feces, the stream was polluted by all manner of garbage and waste that people threw into it. Nevertheless, it provided the people’s only source of water.

    Except for a handful of men who were employed, mostly in nearby coal mines, everyone lived on welfare. A few people had some chickens and small gardens, but the Duddie’s Brancher’s survival was dependent on grossly inadequate governmental food allowances. There was little protein available to them; in fact, there was little food of any kind, and most Duddie’s Branchers were perpetually hungry. Their children were so malnourished that all were very thin and small. Some six-year-olds had achieved only half the growth that is normal for children their age, many were anemic, and all were chronically ill with endemic diseases.

    Anthropologist Rena Gazaway grew very fond of the people, but nevertheless spoke frankly about the conditions that left them chronically ill with tuberculosis, among other diseases. “With few exceptions, the housekeeping is shocking and the filth defies description. The air is foul with the stifling odor of dried urine, stale cooking, unwashed bodies, dirty clothing.”4 Although the people of Duddie’s Branch tried to reckon kinship—their principal social tie—it was often difficult because sexual relations were indiscriminate (girls began to have sexual intercourse as early as the age of six) and illegitimate births were commonplace.

    When Gazaway asked one boy if he was not curious about his father, he answered “Hain’t worth knowin’,” a common sentiment.5 People were indifferent about marriage, and there were no community groups or formal organizations. There was little interaction among households, and none at all as an entire community. In fact, even household members communicated with one another only in quite limited fashion. People sometimes shot others’ dogs simply because it amused them to do so. People spoke to one another so infrequently that for some time Gazaway actually thought that many of them were mute”

    There is much much more…

    This is probably worse than Redruth

    The old siver mining towns outside Denver have some of the most crushing poverty I have ever seen. Falling down mobile homes. No education. No prospects.
    Amazingly I’ve missed out 8 paragraphs which are equally bad and mind boggling

    This is in the 1960s!

    I wonder if we have imported a few Duddies’ Branches of our own. Interbred, borderline illiterate, relying entirely on welfare, no obvious moral code, willing to prey on others, child abuse accepted. Yet loyal to each other despite it all, and deeply resistant to interference
    I doubt it. They don't seem the type of people with the gumption to travel halfway round the world.
    Er, these people were immigrants into America. Mainly Scotch - often from around Wick - they tended to settle Appalachia. J D Vance country

    It’s the clannish interbred isolation thereafter that leads to the depraved squalor
    Exactly, that takes several generations. Their ancestors came to the US 200+ years ago.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,408
    We were discussing whether you would rather live in Manchester or Singapore yesterday. I've just unearthed this list of 'most liveable cities': Manchester ranks 46th, Singapore 49th and London 53rd.

    https://media.heraldsun.com.au/files/liveability.pdf

    That said, I think this is last year's list: Manchester has apparently slipped a few places this year 'because of the Southport riots' down to about 53rd, though it is still the top ranking UK city (I can't find the full list for this year so I don't know about Singapore).

    These lists are always pretty questionable - only about 160 cities in the world - so most Brits will look in vain for their home city - and measured by some quite blunt metrics. But I think it at least shows that the question is up for debate.
    https://media.heraldsun.com.au/files/liveability.pdf
  • eekeek Posts: 30,355
    stodge said:

    I'd like to think Leon will visit Trevaskis Farm on his Cornish odyssey - my parents discovered it in the 1980s and it's an example of a business which has gone from a small farm shop to a serious food venue.

    Owned by the Eustace family, I believe.

    A visit to Jelbert's in Newlyn to be recommended.

    I did love the bit about the floral roundabouts being the initiative of "brilliant Reform councillors". Reform doesn't run Cornwall - the floral roundabouts were probasbly down to the previous Conservative administration who were unceremoniously booted out in May.

    At the moment, most Reform councillors are still struggling to figure out how councils actually work. It's possible they are also being quietly nobbled by senior officers who will ensure they (the councillors) will do what they (the officers) tell them.

    Given that I think Leon is based Falmouth way I would suggest Roskillys at St Keverne is a better bet - only change over the past 10 years is dinner is now 7 days a week and waiter service rather than order at counter
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,254
    Scott_xP said:

    He's awake, and concerned about the price of oil...

    The dumbfuck should have thought of that before he decided to help keep Bibi out of jail.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,261
    Cookie said:

    We were discussing whether you would rather live in Manchester or Singapore yesterday. I've just unearthed this list of 'most liveable cities': Manchester ranks 46th, Singapore 49th and London 53rd.

    https://media.heraldsun.com.au/files/liveability.pdf

    That said, I think this is last year's list: Manchester has apparently slipped a few places this year 'because of the Southport riots' down to about 53rd, though it is still the top ranking UK city (I can't find the full list for this year so I don't know about Singapore).

    These lists are always pretty questionable - only about 160 cities in the world - so most Brits will look in vain for their home city - and measured by some quite blunt metrics. But I think it at least shows that the question is up for debate.
    https://media.heraldsun.com.au/files/liveability.pdf

    What does stability mean?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,003
    edited June 23
    ***
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,445
    Nigelb said:

    Ton up for Pant.

    Six in the match so far. The record is eight centuries in a Test.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,420

    Has Leon's been hanging out with this guy?

    Every day London becomes a bit more disorderly. The police report that shoplifting increased by more than 50% last year, a far sharper increase than in other regions, and thefts such as pickpocketing increased by 41%, with mobile phones plucked like low-hanging fruit. Transport for London (TfL) calculates that fare dodging costs the transit system £400 million ($540 million) a year, but the real figure may be much higher.
    But these crime figures only capture a small proportion of the disorder. Delivery drivers cycle at high speed, often on the pavement, frequently scattering pedestrians in their path. The bikes have electric motors and thick tires; the drivers usually wear masks or balaclavas to conceal their faces, regardless of the heat. The sickly sweet smell of marijuana is ubiquitous in large parts of London (and certainly in Clapham where I live).

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2025-06-23/londoners-are-losing-patience-with-do-nothing-and-disorder

    Just proves his point
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,420

    https://x.com/christiancalgie/status/1937132071341666628

    Kemi Badenoch: "Nobody who comes to our country should end up being a net beneficiary. They need to be contributing."

    "If you need social housing or you need benefits then you shouldn't be here"

    She has it right, if you cannot support yourself then F Off.
Sign In or Register to comment.