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Will we will see Nigel Farage’s rumba this parliament? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,523
edited 4:35PM in General
Will we will see Nigel Farage’s rumba this parliament? – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have some markets on what Nigel Farage may do, a golden rule when it comes to betting is not to get involved in betting markets where the bookie doesn’t offer both sides of the bet.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,360
    The ban on discussing the grooming story is back in force.

    However, given the way it is was discussed yesterday we are minded to permanently lift the ban in the next few days.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,901
    The BBC would be very ill advised to give him the opportunity
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947
    edited 6:37AM
    Please spare a thought for the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

    How would you be feeling today waking up if you were Emma Reynolds.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,877
    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,893
    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Mossad are successfully terrorising the entire Iranian elite. Even Khameni knows the evil Jews can get him, if Trump gives the nod

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of islamofascists. Deploy the micro-violins
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 18,921
    edited 6:46AM

    The BBC would be very ill advised to give him the opportunity

    Unlikely they will. When he was on I'm a Celebrity, he wasn't RefUK's leader (though he was its owner?) so different rules applied. Technically, he was just a washed-up ex celeb.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Mossad are successfully terrorising the entire Iranian elite. Even Khameni knows the evil Jews can get him, if Trump gives the nod

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of islamofascists. Deploy the micro-violins
    Even funnier is the reaction of left wing twitter. Someone noted that our favourite Guardian journalist had gone "pro Ayatollah" following the Iran/Israel events.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294
    .
    TOPPING said:

    Please spare a thought for the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.

    How would you be feeling today waking up if you were Emma Reynolds.

    That I'd let down the Chief Secretary on a matter slightly outside my brief ?

    The Economic Secretary is responsible, though more senior ministers share in decision-making, for the answering of written and verbal parliamentary questions and for the devising of regulations, orders and legislation in various matters. Until September 2022, these matters included banking and finance, including banks, insurance, personal savings, financial regulation, and foreign exchange reserves. He or she was also involved in taxation as it impacted on these areas, such as tax on savings and pensions, and Insurance Premium Tax. In addition, the Economic Secretary, until September 2002, advised on economic policy and continues to work with other Treasury ministers on the Comprehensive Spending Review and finance bills...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,561
    edited 6:49AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,638
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,003
    edited 6:56AM
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    I think it goes to show how much more effective an outfit like Hamas is compared with a traditional state actor like Iran. If you lose control of the skies then you've got no choice but to go (literally) underground.

    I think it's been proven that October 7th was gross incompetence. The extent to which that was manufactured by reducing resources, or the different capabilities of their internal and external intelligence agencies, is up for debate.
  • vikvik Posts: 501
    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699
    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,360

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    I've backed George Russell to win the title this year, you can get 50/1 with Ladbrokes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,877
    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    He needs to be present at the White House, not Canada, where he can be "well versed" and not have to rely on phones to know what's happening, he said.

    Trump sounded undecided about sending Witkoff and/or VP Vance to meet with Iran. "I may," he said. But "it depends what happens when I get back," he said.

    On any threat to US interests, he said Iran knows not to touch our troops. US would "come down so hard if they do anything to our people," he said.

    Trump declined to say if the chairman of joint chiefs and SecDef have provided him with planning options should Iran attack U.S. bases in Middle East. "I can't tell you that," he told me.

    Trump told me "we'll be talking to them" when asked if the Gang of Eight was briefed on anything yet. But "it's not necessary," he said.

    Asked if US involvement would destroy Iran nuclear program, hope their program "is wiped out long before that."
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947
    edited 6:58AM
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    The problem was they had warning after warning after warning. But chose not to do anything about it because the reality of it happening would have been too disruptive to civil and military life and hence chose to ignore it. Hamas had been drilling precisely the same manoeuvres they eventually executed on October 7th for months and had done so in full view of the Israeli observation posts, who duly fed the info back (and most in those OPs died on Oct 7).

    Seth Frantzman is good on this although he says that Israel thought it wouldn't happen or that any incursion would be easily defeated. I disagree on that as per my above point.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,638

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    I've backed George Russell to win the title this year, you can get 50/1 with Ladbrokes.
    I cunningly backed him at, er, 26. This was some time ago. I also considered backing him at 151 a few days ago, and didn't.

    Good work, me.

    Mind you, it was each way so if he finishes 2nd that's fine.

    I suspect he's out of it but we need to see how the next few races go.
  • vikvik Posts: 501
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Mossad are successfully terrorising the entire Iranian elite. Even Khameni knows the evil Jews can get him, if Trump gives the nod

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of islamofascists. Deploy the micro-violins
    Even funnier is the reaction of left wing twitter. Someone noted that our favourite Guardian journalist had gone "pro Ayatollah" following the Iran/Israel events.
    There isn't a lot of consistency in the positions of most of the political sides.

    Jon Stewart highlighted how the pro-Russian MAGA faction (Tucker Carlson etc) are totally against sending American troops to fight an overseas war in the Middle East, but are totally in favour of sending American troops to fight a domestic war in the US & to "liberate LA" from the Democrats.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,968
    ‘Bombs away.’

    https://x.com/repfine/status/1934742721350259094?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Ol’ Randy was proudly wobbling one of his chins over Israel’s ‘mostly peaceful bombing of Iran’, presumably it’ll be the full five chin quiver when the USA gets involved in the peaceful war.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,095
    edited 7:10AM
    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    Apparently a portion of Hamas, which faced day-to-day attacks from the Israelis, opted out of everything electronic, and even much written stuff. They were worried about snooping on laptops, even disconnected from the net, according to reports.

    Unlike Hezbollah or the Iranian government. Who love technology.

    So the portion of Hamas that planned 7th October went to super paranoid cell structures, with verbal communication. That plus using networks of close family members only, was relatively successful at keeping the Israelis out.

    The paranoia went as far as not telling anyone outside the group what they were planing
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,877
    vik said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Mossad are successfully terrorising the entire Iranian elite. Even Khameni knows the evil Jews can get him, if Trump gives the nod

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of islamofascists. Deploy the micro-violins
    Even funnier is the reaction of left wing twitter. Someone noted that our favourite Guardian journalist had gone "pro Ayatollah" following the Iran/Israel events.
    There isn't a lot of consistency in the positions of most of the political sides.

    Jon Stewart highlighted how the pro-Russian MAGA faction (Tucker Carlson etc) are totally against sending American troops to fight an overseas war in the Middle East, but are totally in favour of sending American troops to fight a domestic war in the US & to "liberate LA" from the Democrats.
    Jon Stewart last night was highlighting Republicans who say a single crime by an immigrant is one too many, but US citizens gunning down their neighbours is fine and dandy
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,360

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    I've backed George Russell to win the title this year, you can get 50/1 with Ladbrokes.
    I cunningly backed him at, er, 26. This was some time ago. I also considered backing him at 151 a few days ago, and didn't.

    Good work, me.

    Mind you, it was each way so if he finishes 2nd that's fine.

    I suspect he's out of it but we need to see how the next few races go.
    It has all the hallmarks of an excellent trading bet.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,649
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    The problem was they had warning after warning after warning. But chose not to do anything about it because the reality of it happening would have been too disruptive to civil and military life and hence chose to ignore it. Hamas had been drilling precisely the same manoeuvres they eventually executed on October 7th for months and had done so in full view of the Israeli observation posts, who duly fed the info back (and most in those OPs died on Oct 7).

    Seth Frantzman is good on this although he says that Israel thought it wouldn't happen or that any incursion would be easily defeated. I disagree on that as per my above point.
    The contrast on taking out Hezbollah and Iranians with some, but not vast amounts, of collateral damage also starkly contrasts with the Gaza campaign. Of course, there are the complications of the hostages and it being densely populated, but the contrast is so large that it is hard not to conclude the aim is different there.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699
    "What a smashing, absolutely dashing, spectacle, the Ascot opening day" - according to the Ascot Gavotte from My Fair Lady.

    It's a glorious morning here in downtown East Ham and doubtless those with privileged tickets will already be donning their finery for an afternoon in Berkshire.

    If you want to add further financial pain to the joy of wearing a morning suit in the heat, try backing these:

    Queen Anne Stakes: ROSALLION (win)
    Coventry Stakes: AMERICAN GULF (each way)
    King Charles III Stakes: ASFOORA (win), WASHINGTON HEIGHTS (each way)
    St James’s Palace Stakes: HENRI MATISSE (win)
    Wolverton Stakes: ENFJAAR (win).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,968

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    Apparently a portion of Hamas, which faced day-to-day attacks from the Israelis, opted out of everything electronic, and even much written stuff. They were worried about snooping on laptops, even disconnected from the net, according to reports.

    Unlike Hezbollah or the Iranian government. Who love technology.

    So the portion of Hamas that planned 7th October went to super paranoid cell structures, with verbal communication. That plus using networks of close family members only, was relatively successful at keeping the Israelis out.

    The paranoia went as far as not telling anyone outside the group what they were planing
    Surely not, I’ve heard the whole of the Gazan population had foreknowledge of Oct 7th and were therefore complicit. I mean even thoughtful genius Richard Madeley wondered if Layla Moran had an inkling of 07/10/23.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,095
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    The problem was they had warning after warning after warning. But chose not to do anything about it because the reality of it happening would have been too disruptive to civil and military life and hence chose to ignore it. Hamas had been drilling precisely the same manoeuvres they eventually executed on October 7th for months and had done so in full view of the Israeli observation posts, who duly fed the info back (and most in those OPs died on Oct 7).

    Seth Frantzman is good on this although he says that Israel thought it wouldn't happen or that any incursion would be easily defeated. I disagree on that as per my above point.
    The warnings they had didn’t reveal the scale of the planned attack - they got bits and pieces from the cellular structure Hamas was using.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,095

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    Apparently a portion of Hamas, which faced day-to-day attacks from the Israelis, opted out of everything electronic, and even much written stuff. They were worried about snooping on laptops, even disconnected from the net, according to reports.

    Unlike Hezbollah or the Iranian government. Who love technology.

    So the portion of Hamas that planned 7th October went to super paranoid cell structures, with verbal communication. That plus using networks of close family members only, was relatively successful at keeping the Israelis out.

    The paranoia went as far as not telling anyone outside the group what they were planing
    Surely not, I’ve heard the whole of the Gazan population had foreknowledge of Oct 7th and were therefore complicit. I mean even thoughtful genius Richard Madeley wondered if Layla Moran had an inkling of 07/10/23.
    There were lots of rumours of attacks, apparently. The coordination and scale was what was missed.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    edited 7:20AM
    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    The problem was they had warning after warning after warning. But chose not to do anything about it because the reality of it happening would have been too disruptive to civil and military life and hence chose to ignore it. Hamas had been drilling precisely the same manoeuvres they eventually executed on October 7th for months and had done so in full view of the Israeli observation posts, who duly fed the info back (and most in those OPs died on Oct 7).

    Seth Frantzman is good on this although he says that Israel thought it wouldn't happen or that any incursion would be easily defeated. I disagree on that as per my above point.
    The warnings they had didn’t reveal the scale of the planned attack - they got bits and pieces from the cellular structure Hamas was using.
    Not so.

    The OPs were sending back time after time accounts of drills and prep up and down the border for months on end even to the point of they were practising breaches. If anyone took away from that that the scale was not huge then they should (and may well still) be sacked.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,584

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    No mention of the unfortunate groundhog ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    edited 7:39AM
    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,638
    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    No mention of the unfortunate groundhog ?
    Because of time pressures I tend to record things earlier rather than later so I think that was after I'd scripted/recorded the episode. (Also why I chose Tuesdays, because even with annoyingly late races I should have time on Monday to just about get everything done).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947
    On topic, such as it is, the Beeb would never in a million years invite NF to appear on Strictly. He would blow out of the water their policy of not putting a foot wrong in promoting diversity, equality and inclusion which they work super hard to maintain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294
    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    You can't tell 10m people to evacuate a city and expect them to be safe.

    It's more likely that, if they are planning large scale bombing of the capital, Israel/the US wish to absolve themselves of responsibility for civilian casualties.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,702
    SandraMc said:

    MikeL said:

    tlg86 said:
    No, as posted earlier he came out against it last November.

    See BBC article dated 22 November 2024 - link below.

    And of course he's against it - he's highly religious and almost all highly religious people are against it as they believe life can only be taken away by God.

    No point in trying to convince them otherwise, that's what their brains think so they are opposed whatever the safeguards.

    The public are massively in favour but the problem is that MPs are much more religious than the public as a whole.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o
    I think that is a over-simplification of religious views. The Rev. Richard Coles is against the Bill. He says he is not against assisted dying in certain cases but says the Bill is too vague in important details - a point also made by Cyclefree (To whom I send my best wishes).
    The Bill has safeguard after safeguard after safeguard that prevents many people or scenarios where people may want assisted dying to get it.

    Can someone with a lifelong condition of suffering, who is not terminal, get an assisted death? No, ruled out by the stupid six months safeguard.

    I can sign legally binding advanced directives in the UK, but can I sign a directive under this bill that if I get dementia then I'd rather get an assisted death than end up in a care home? No, again safeguarded away. Stupid.

    There are far too many, not too few, safeguards in this bill. The people using the not enough safeguards argument would never be satisfied.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,550
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    You can't tell 10m people to evacuate a city and expect them to be safe.

    It's more likely that, if they are planning large scale bombing of the capital, Israel/the US wish to absolve themselves of responsibility for civilian casualties.
    Surely the only thing the US needs to bomb is that one remaining nuclear facility?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,727
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    When political parties promise not to increase taxes what they really mean is not to increase taxes people understand easily. They are happy to tax via frozen thresholds (Tories), tax individuals pension funds (Lab [Brown]). They could unfreeze the personal allowance and increase the tax rate. It will help those less well off and will have a net zero impact on those above the least well off. But the headlines will be Labour break their promise and increase taxes while ignoring the benefit of increases in personal allowances.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,968
    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    No mention of the unfortunate groundhog ?
    There will be.
    Again and again..
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    edited 7:47AM
    TOPPING said:

    On topic, such as it is, the Beeb would never in a million years invite NF to appear on Strictly. He would blow out of the water their policy of not putting a foot wrong in promoting diversity, equality and inclusion which they work super hard to maintain.

    That's a relevant comment, albeit from an angle.

    For the Strictly fans, has the BBC ever featured a politician before they were well over the political hill? Ed Balls, Anne Widdicombe and Vince Cable were all on the way out or the way down.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,702
    Different people have different preferences and should be free to make their own choices.

    My wife and I have both expressly made our wishes clear to each other that in the event it ever happens we

    1. Would like to be organ donors, if possible.
    2. Would rather have life support turned off than live as a vegetable.
    3. If we get dementia, we would rather an assisted death than end up in a care home.

    Others may make other choices, that's their right. Our choices we should be able to make but the law doesn't permit it, and this proposed law has far too many safeguards that it still wouldn't permit it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294
    Interesting article on the potential obsolescence of armoured self-propelled artillery,

    A Russian drone flew into Ukraine’s “hidden” Krab gun — and exposed a billion-dollar flaw in artillery design
    https://euromaidanpress.com/2025/06/14/fpvs-hit-krab/
    Ukraine has received 108 Krab self-propelled howitzers from Poland. In three years of hard fighting since the first of the 53-ton, five-person guns arrived in Ukraine, Ukrainian forces have lost no fewer than 35 of the howitzers, which fire Ukraine’s best 155-millimeter shells as far as 31 km.

    On or just before 7 June, a Russian drone crew showed what happens when artillery gunners don’t take every precaution. The Russian crew flew two fiber-optic first-person-view drones through gaps in the front and back of one Krab’s covered, concealed dugout in a tree line somewhere along the 1,100-km front line—and lit the gun on fire, destroying it.

    It’s probably the 36th Krab loss. And it was totally preventable. ..


    Lightweight and concealable might replace such systems.
  • vikvik Posts: 501

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    Interesting that Labour has been consistently gaining in the polls since they did the WFA U-turn.

    It was a good political decision to do the U-turn.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294
    edited 7:52AM

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    You can't tell 10m people to evacuate a city and expect them to be safe.

    It's more likely that, if they are planning large scale bombing of the capital, Israel/the US wish to absolve themselves of responsibility for civilian casualties.
    Surely the only thing the US needs to bomb is that one remaining nuclear facility?
    Both Trump and Netanyahu have "ordered" civilians to evacuate Tehran (Netehyahu's words were a straight echo of the instruction they've regularly issued in Gaza).

    You guess about what they intend is as good as mine, but their statements were consistent on that.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,702
    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,727

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    My memory is of a slow but consistent drop in the Tory share and slow but consistent increase in the LD share. That seems to have stopped now at the point just before crossover with the Tories maintaining a very small lead.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    edited 7:53AM
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    You can't tell 10m people to evacuate a city and expect them to be safe.

    It's more likely that, if they are planning large scale bombing of the capital, Israel/the US wish to absolve themselves of responsibility for civilian casualties.
    Surely the only thing the US needs to bomb is that one remaining nuclear facility?
    Both Trump and Netanyahu have "ordered" civilians to evacuate Tehran.

    You guess about what they intend is as good as mine, but their statements were consistent on that.
    Other countries, for example India, have also ordered their citizens to GTFO of Tehran.
    Its going to get the Baghdad 2003 treatment
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,778
    Colin Crawford (UUP) MLA has announced he will be resigning from the Northern Irish Assembly later this month. Under the electoral system used, his replacement will be co-opted rather than there being a by-election. Crawford himself had been co-opted to the Assembly after the previous MLA Robin Swann was elected an MP.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,778
    vik said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    Interesting that Labour has been consistently gaining in the polls since they did the WFA U-turn.

    It was a good political decision to do the U-turn.
    Several people here assured us that their support would collapse after their "betrayal" over the Chagos Islands.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,721
    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Good morning

    And not to forget the Senedd and Holyrood elections
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,658

    Colin Crawford (UUP) MLA has announced he will be resigning from the Northern Irish Assembly later this month. Under the electoral system used, his replacement will be co-opted rather than there being a by-election. Crawford himself had been co-opted to the Assembly after the previous MLA Robin Swann was elected an MP.

    Not very democratic.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699
    kjh said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    When political parties promise not to increase taxes what they really mean is not to increase taxes people understand easily. They are happy to tax via frozen thresholds (Tories), tax individuals pension funds (Lab [Brown]). They could unfreeze the personal allowance and increase the tax rate. It will help those less well off and will have a net zero impact on those above the least well off. But the headlines will be Labour break their promise and increase taxes while ignoring the benefit of increases in personal allowances.
    Yes and I think that's where I am currently. Raising the personal income tax allowances (along with NI), raising the threshold between lower and higher rater bands to where it would have been (and especially allowing for post-Covid wage inflation) but increasing the rates to 25p basic and a single 50p higher rate.

    I don't have the Treasury computer model on my laptop so I don't know what that would do to the actual amount of tax receipt (we also need to look at CGT, VAT, fuel duty and other taxes).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,778
    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic, such as it is, the Beeb would never in a million years invite NF to appear on Strictly. He would blow out of the water their policy of not putting a foot wrong in promoting diversity, equality and inclusion which they work super hard to maintain.

    That's a relevant comment, albeit from an angle.

    For the Strictly fans, has the BBC ever featured a politician before they were well over the political hill? Ed Balls, Anne Widdicombe and Vince Cable were all on the way out or the way down.
    Ed, Anne and Vince is a very balanced set of politician contestants.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,658
    fpt
    Ratters said:

    Leon said:

    Extraordinary spell of fine weather coming up for London. Nice timing as I leave the frigid Faroes

    This has surely been the best spring and early summer weather we've had in London before. At least in many years.
    2020 and 2022?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    My memory is of a slow but consistent drop in the Tory share and slow but consistent increase in the LD share. That seems to have stopped now at the point just before crossover with the Tories maintaining a very small lead.
    No, there was a sudden drop in the Tory share (3 yo 4 points with all pollsters) the week after LEs to the benegit of Ref UK and all noise since, LD is unchanged since LEs essentially, they gained a small amount leacimg in to the LEs (1 to 2 points)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,658
    fpt
    MikeL said:

    tlg86 said:
    No, as posted earlier he came out against it last November.

    See BBC article dated 22 November 2024 - link below.

    And of course he's against it - he's highly religious and almost all highly religious people are against it as they believe life can only be taken away by God.

    No point in trying to convince them otherwise, that's what their brains think so they are opposed whatever the safeguards.

    The public are massively in favour but the problem is that MPs are much more religious than the public as a whole.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207yjrn7r6o
    I'm not religious at all and I tend to agree with the religious people on this subject. Wonder how common that particular combination is?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,638

    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
    If Trump's military understanding is as sound as his grasp on trade then I'd be very nervous if I lived in Iran. Or Iraq.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,294

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    No mention of the unfortunate groundhog ?
    Because of time pressures I tend to record things earlier rather than later so I think that was after I'd scripted/recorded the episode. (Also why I chose Tuesdays, because even with annoyingly late races I should have time on Monday to just about get everything done).
    That's fair.
    Hamilton didn't really know what he'd hit until after the race, either.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,702

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @JenniferJJacobs
    BREAKING: Trump wants "a real end" to the nuclear problem with Iran and this morning will find him in the White House Situation Room, monitoring developments in Middle East, he told us during his midnight departure from Canada.

    "I didn't say I was looking for a ceasefire," he said on AF1. He said he wants "a real end," with Iran "giving up entirely" on nukes.

    The Israelis aren't slowing up their barrage on Iran, he predicted. "You're going to find out over the next two days. You're going to find out. Nobody's slowed up so far."

    Asked his thinking on calling for Tehran to evacuate, he told me he wants "people to be safe."

    You can't tell 10m people to evacuate a city and expect them to be safe.

    It's more likely that, if they are planning large scale bombing of the capital, Israel/the US wish to absolve themselves of responsibility for civilian casualties.
    Surely the only thing the US needs to bomb is that one remaining nuclear facility?
    The other nuclear facilities have been damaged, but have they been completely destroyed and the materials there rendered unusable?

    I don't know, I would have assumed it would take more hits than just one night.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,377

    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
    If Trump's military understanding is as sound as his grasp on trade then I'd be very nervous if I lived in Iran. Or Iraq.
    I doubt his grasp of geography is up to much.

    The good burghers of Stoke-on-Trent should be worried too.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,638

    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
    If Trump's military understanding is as sound as his grasp on trade then I'd be very nervous if I lived in Iran. Or Iraq.
    I doubt his grasp of geography is up to much.

    The good burghers of Stoke-on-Trent should be worried too.
    Residents of Albania's capital might be anxious as well.
  • TazTaz Posts: 19,009
    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    Possibly although the council webpage does have his party as Reform.

    It’s interesting how people seem to be really scrutinising Reform here but yesterday Labour lost its majority on a council in Cheshire with two councillors switching to independent and rather critical about Labour too.

    Barely a murmur,
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    edited 8:06AM
    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,105

    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
    If Trump's military understanding is as sound as his grasp on trade then I'd be very nervous if I lived in Iran. Or Iraq.
    I doubt his grasp of geography is up to much.

    The good burghers of Stoke-on-Trent should be worried too.
    Etruria shouldn't have tried to build the Bomb...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522

    vik said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    Interesting that Labour has been consistently gaining in the polls since they did the WFA U-turn.

    It was a good political decision to do the U-turn.
    Several people here assured us that their support would collapse after their "betrayal" over the Chagos Islands.
    Wherever votes are being cast, it has. But thats due to much more than Chagos
  • berberian_knowsberberian_knows Posts: 113

    Different people have different preferences and should be free to make their own choices.

    My wife and I have both expressly made our wishes clear to each other that in the event it ever happens we

    1. Would like to be organ donors, if possible.
    2. Would rather have life support turned off than live as a vegetable.
    3. If we get dementia, we would rather an assisted death than end up in a care home.

    Others may make other choices, that's their right. Our choices we should be able to make but the law doesn't permit it, and this proposed law has far too many safeguards that it still wouldn't permit it.

    I think there are two groups opposed to the bill -

    those against any bill, as you characterize above
    those who look at the utterly bizarre choices of random hurdles that need to be jumped that are in the current bill.

    It is baffling that the word "pain" appears only once in the bill - as a minor part of a future review of the bill.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    edited 8:13AM

    MattW said:

    TOPPING said:

    On topic, such as it is, the Beeb would never in a million years invite NF to appear on Strictly. He would blow out of the water their policy of not putting a foot wrong in promoting diversity, equality and inclusion which they work super hard to maintain.

    That's a relevant comment, albeit from an angle.

    For the Strictly fans, has the BBC ever featured a politician before they were well over the political hill? Ed Balls, Anne Widdicombe and Vince Cable were all on the way out or the way down.
    Ed, Anne and Vince is a very balanced set of politician contestants.
    There was also Eggwina, and Michael Gove has been rumoured (says Google).

    Of those, Vince Cable was perhaps the only one with dancing skills, whilst the others threw themselves into the experience.

    I could see a Reformista who is a decent dancer doing it so the BBC can say "look we've done all the parties", maybe one of the defenestrations if one comes along.

    Lee Anderson would be interesting on Strictly. I have no knowledge of his dance sport abilities. It might be a good question to send in to his programme on Reform TV.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,908

    vik said:

    From this report in the NY Times, it does like Trump is going to go ahead & join the bombing campaign:

    "President Trump said the reason for his abrupt departure was “much bigger” than trying to strike a ceasefire between Iran and Israel. President Emmanuel Macron of France had earlier suggested Trump had left to personally intermediate a ceasefire.“Wrong!” Trump said on social media. “He has no idea why I am now on my way to Washington, but it certainly has nothing to do with a Cease Fire.” "

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2025/06/16/world/iran-israel-news/770af1c3-e1f2-5f04-a265-a2753041c810?smid=url-share

    I'll believe Taco Trump is joining in when I see it.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day but Trump doing the right thing and bombing Iran would be an incredible turn up for the books.
    If Trump's military understanding is as sound as his grasp on trade then I'd be very nervous if I lived in Iran. Or Iraq.
    I doubt his grasp of geography is up to much.

    The good burghers of Stoke-on-Trent should be worried too.
    What's your evidence for that? Show me the beef.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,105
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: the moment some of you have been moderately interested in has arrived. Here's my review of the Canadian Grand Prix, which was pretty eventful (first Antonelli podium, McLaren clash, Racing Bulls forgetting to be fast etc). Plus the 2026 calendar and a couple of clashes:


    Podbean: https://undercutters.podbean.com/e/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/

    Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review/id1786574257?i=1000713208937

    Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1AuUkSbYghXzA5kFL6dkuV

    Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/bcfe213b-55fb-408a-a823-dc6693ee9f78/episodes/5e20db4e-a23a-410d-93ae-50b77c85b673/undercutters---f1-podcast-f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review

    Transcript: https://morrisf1.blogspot.com/2025/06/f1-2025-canadian-grand-prix-review.html

    No mention of the unfortunate groundhog ?
    Because of time pressures I tend to record things earlier rather than later so I think that was after I'd scripted/recorded the episode. (Also why I chose Tuesdays, because even with annoyingly late races I should have time on Monday to just about get everything done).
    That's fair.
    Hamilton didn't really know what he'd hit until after the race, either.
    He's going to have to hope he doesn't have another Groundhog Day.

    As is the groundhog.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,219

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
  • stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    25% reduction for starting a DB pension 5 years early isn't really a "penalty" though is it ? It's a rough approximation of the extra net present value of the income stream. If you took £1m to an insurance company at age 55 and said "How much less annuity will you give me if it starts today rather than in 5 years time", I'm sure it would be in the region of 25%
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,922
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    Possibly although the council webpage does have his party as Reform.

    It’s interesting how people seem to be really scrutinising Reform here but yesterday Labour lost its majority on a council in Cheshire with two councillors switching to independent and rather critical about Labour too.

    Barely a murmur,
    At this point, Reform are beating the Conservatives and Labour almost everywhere, and the minor parties/independents.

    They’ll have reached 1,000 councillors, even before next May.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,877
    @thetimes

    🔺BREAKING: Air India Boeing 787 flight to Gatwick cancelled over ‘technical glitch’

    Flight on the same route from Ahmedabad as the ill-fated AI 171 had flown in from Delhi, as had the aircraft that crashed

    https://x.com/thetimes/status/1934886175673602079
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699
    I think I now understand the Emma Reynolds references. I haven't listened to LBC much since Douglas Cameron and Bob Holness did the morning show, Brian Hayes did the mid morning chat and Adrian Love "This is Love in London" was on in the evenings with Anna Raeburn - happy radio days.

    I'm not as viscerally anti-Labour as some indeed many on here. I don't think Starmer is a bad Prime Minister and I don't have the issues with him that some on here do.

    BUT..

    That was just plain awful from Emma Reynolds - the lack of preparation was inexcusable. She should have had media training and she should know you don't go on Nick Ferrari unprepared and expecting an easy time. Ferrari is a Tory but even he lost patience with them in the end but he's no friend of Labour, never has been.

    You can defend a Minister who is asked questions outside his/her brief and struggles to some degree but the Economic Secretary to the Treasury should be able to answer questions about large scale infrastructure projects (if not perhaps to the granular detail) and should know where they are.

    Not good and re-enforces the notion of a Government not up to the job. To be fair, she's hardly the first Minister, Labour or Conservative, who has ended floundering in interviews in recent times.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    Quite seriouly, on the Israel-Iran "28th small disagreement", I think Netanyahu, like Trump, is perhaps overemphasising the short term - he is nearly as old as Trump and will not have to bear the consequences, whilst keeping himself out the of the orbit of the corruption investigation he faces.

    There a rhetoric around of needing Iran never to have nuclear weapons (eg Trump), and 'fix this once and for all', but istm that this will no more ensure a peaceful Middle East than did Operation Peace for Galilee in 1982 (invasion of Lebanon) ensured a peaceful northern region of Israel - especially at it was launched out of the blue whilst a dialogue process was ongoing.

    And there are two things I think are pretty-much guaranteed:

    1 - A further half century of hostility to Israel.
    2 - Countries in the region, especially but not limited to Iran, will consider a nuclear deterrent to be essential. Just as Trump's demolition of the international order will very likely result in nuclear proliferation; the Victorian age is not coming back.

    They might imo get 15 years of peace.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,574
    vik said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    Interesting that Labour has been consistently gaining in the polls since they did the WFA U-turn.

    It was a good political decision to do the U-turn.
    A good political decision, a bad decision for the country's long term future. Unfortunately, giving people money they don't need is always going to be more popular than investing for the long term or putting our fiscal house in order. This is how countries fail, death by a thousand refusals to take difficult decisions. To be fair to the government, they did try. This one is on the voters, and the populists who are indulging them.
  • stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    25% reduction for starting a DB pension 5 years early isn't really a "penalty" though is it ? It's a rough approximation of the extra net present value of the income stream. If you took £1m to an insurance company at age 55 and said "How much less annuity will you give me if it starts today rather than in 5 years time", I'm sure it would be in the region of 25%
    https://www.lgpsmember.org/your-pension/planning/taking-your-pension/#early-retirement-reductions

    Calculated by the scheme actuary on a pretty neutral basis, AIUI. You can see that the lump sum reduction is much smaller, essentially because that only needs to allow for the difference between investment return and inflation, whereas the pension adjustment also needs to reflect the fact that an extra 5 years' instalments will be paid.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    25% reduction for starting a DB pension 5 years early isn't really a "penalty" though is it ? It's a rough approximation of the extra net present value of the income stream. If you took £1m to an insurance company at age 55 and said "How much less annuity will you give me if it starts today rather than in 5 years time", I'm sure it would be in the region of 25%
    I'm sure you're right but that's not how it looks to the member of the scheme where it looks like a penalty and sounds like a penalty but if you have someone who has paid off their mortgage (thanks to low interest rates) and perhaps downsized to a smaller property and taken a nice capital receipt as a result, even the lower figure might be enough for the decision to be made to retire early.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    edited 8:27AM

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Musing on tax and pension matters after my debate with MaxPB and others yesterday evening, I'm left with two thoughts.

    The sense of being "over taxed" is compounded by the failure to raise thresholds. This "fiscal drag" or "stealth tax" instigated by the high-tax Conservative Government and now initated by its Labour successor has dragged so many more people into the higher tax bracket in the sense more of their income is now taxed at the 40% rate.

    When I argued for a new 50% higher rate, apart from the usual howl of outrage, one or two failed to read the next bit which was to bring the thresholds to where they would have been allowing for annual RPI so the rates would rise so many middle to high income earners wouldm probably be better off from a simple 25p basic rate and 50p higher rate if the threshold from the former to the latter was set much higher than now.

    The second point was about pensions - again, the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth about "public sector pensions" which are complex and by no means all the same - a Teacher's Pension is not a Local Government Officer's pension which in turn is not a Police pension or a civil servant pension.

    In the Local Government Scheme (LPGS), there are swingeing penalties if you leave to take your benefits early - up to 25% if you go five years before your retirement. The problem is those staff are a) not likely to progress further andf b) are simply place-sitting preventing younger (and possibly more productive) staff from moving up and progressing. This needs to be re-thought within LPGS and elsewhere.

    There are options for flexible retirement within LPGS whereby you can work fewer hours and start taking some of your pension and we might need to think about how we employ those 60 or above not only in terms of NI contribution but in terms of flexible hours and pension/salary provision.

    We come back to the central question of how to being the public finances closer to balance in terms of reducing borrowing and the deficit. The debate can't be simply abandoned to the "supply side reform" proponents whose sole mantra is "tax cuts and spending cuts". We are well past it being either/or - it has to be tax rises AND spending cuts but getting the balance right between the two isn't easy. Osborne went for £5 of cuts for every £1 of tax rises but that was a different time and it may well be a more even apportion is apposite.

    25% reduction for starting a DB pension 5 years early isn't really a "penalty" though is it ? It's a rough approximation of the extra net present value of the income stream. If you took £1m to an insurance company at age 55 and said "How much less annuity will you give me if it starts today rather than in 5 years time", I'm sure it would be in the region of 25%
    Surely that is also the rational value a Court would come down on roughly after argy-bargy in determining a "fair" value, subject to any unusual considerations?

    (An example of a special consideration were the monstrously generous terms offered by TFL when they wanted to lose middling-senior managers several years ago).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,574
    I'm not sure Farage would be up to Strictly, health-wise. As such, I really hope he gives it a go.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,778
    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    Possibly although the council webpage does have his party as Reform.

    It’s interesting how people seem to be really scrutinising Reform here but yesterday Labour lost its majority on a council in Cheshire with two councillors switching to independent and rather critical about Labour too.

    Barely a murmur,
    At this point, Reform are beating the Conservatives and Labour almost everywhere, and the minor parties/independents.

    They’ll have reached 1,000 councillors, even before next May.
    That would be a tall order. They currently have 832 (Wikipedia), so need another 168. There’s 46 weeks to go, I think. So they’d need to win 3.7 by-elections per week, ignoring defections to and from the party. That seems a bit more than they are doing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,705
    stodge said:

    "What a smashing, absolutely dashing, spectacle, the Ascot opening day" - according to the Ascot Gavotte from My Fair Lady.

    It's a glorious morning here in downtown East Ham and doubtless those with privileged tickets will already be donning their finery for an afternoon in Berkshire.

    If you want to add further financial pain to the joy of wearing a morning suit in the heat, try backing these:

    Queen Anne Stakes: ROSALLION (win)
    Coventry Stakes: AMERICAN GULF (each way)
    King Charles III Stakes: ASFOORA (win), WASHINGTON HEIGHTS (each way)
    St James’s Palace Stakes: HENRI MATISSE (win)
    Wolverton Stakes: ENFJAAR (win).

    I'm doing Notable Speech and Field Of Gold for the two group 1s.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,587
    Diesel at £1.289 this morning. Amazing really given the goings on in the Middle East.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,706
    Pulpstar said:

    Diesel at £1.289 this morning. Amazing really given the goings on in the Middle East.

    Just how f***** is the economy?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
    Depends if swing is proportionate. More likely they remain LD/Con fights whilst the Con vote collapses where they were third in 2024 (some red wall areas etc) but were are way off calling the line up for GE29, reform have a 3 point lead today only!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,748
    You can nearly see it in those shorts.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,699

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    Possibly although the council webpage does have his party as Reform.

    It’s interesting how people seem to be really scrutinising Reform here but yesterday Labour lost its majority on a council in Cheshire with two councillors switching to independent and rather critical about Labour too.

    Barely a murmur,
    At this point, Reform are beating the Conservatives and Labour almost everywhere, and the minor parties/independents.

    They’ll have reached 1,000 councillors, even before next May.
    That would be a tall order. They currently have 832 (Wikipedia), so need another 168. There’s 46 weeks to go, I think. So they’d need to win 3.7 by-elections per week, ignoring defections to and from the party. That seems a bit more than they are doing.
    The current numbers:

    https://opencouncildata.co.uk/tracker.php

    Playfully, the Conservatives are losing 10 Councillors a week on those figures - so that'll be another 250 gone by the end of the year at that rate.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,587
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Diesel at £1.289 this morning. Amazing really given the goings on in the Middle East.

    Just how f***** is the economy?
    Well it was Costco, seems like low tide on the prices tbh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,587
    edited 8:42AM
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
    Newton Abbott
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,584
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Diesel at £1.289 this morning. Amazing really given the goings on in the Middle East.

    Just how f***** is the economy?
    It’s all about US demand and tariffs. Hopefully Trump can keep up his national self-immolation for a while longer and give us cheap stuff as a result.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,705

    vik said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    Interesting that Labour has been consistently gaining in the polls since they did the WFA U-turn.

    It was a good political decision to do the U-turn.
    A good political decision, a bad decision for the country's long term future. Unfortunately, giving people money they don't need is always going to be more popular than investing for the long term or putting our fiscal house in order. This is how countries fail, death by a thousand refusals to take difficult decisions. To be fair to the government, they did try. This one is on the voters, and the populists who are indulging them.
    We say we want politicians to put country over party but when it happens they get slagged off for being "shit at politics".
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,794
    edited 8:41AM
    ..
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,522
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    MattW said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage appearing on Strictly is after he is hoofed out of Reform UK, or if the party disintegrates or fractures around him. Without that, I think his ambition will rule his actions whilst he assesses he has a chance of a serious political role.

    Given his Merrie Englande image, it should perhaps be Morris Dancing.

    BTW They may have lost another Councillor up @Taz 's way, one Michael David Ramage. As has been remarked elsewhere - is someone taking the P ?

    The guy is not listed as being in the RefUK group on the Council website, and as an ex-Member of the relevant Ref UK facebook group, but does seem to know a fair but about construction - especially bus stations (that's a complement - he knows his stuff in this area, and is taking a real interest):

    "Rushworth MP won't help people he considers are Reform Party members or Reform supporters or Reform Activists. So having alleged I am a Reform activist (I'm probably more socialist than him) he won't help me.... (case summary).

    Alleged? :wink:

    Possibly although the council webpage does have his party as Reform.

    It’s interesting how people seem to be really scrutinising Reform here but yesterday Labour lost its majority on a council in Cheshire with two councillors switching to independent and rather critical about Labour too.

    Barely a murmur,
    At this point, Reform are beating the Conservatives and Labour almost everywhere, and the minor parties/independents.

    They’ll have reached 1,000 councillors, even before next May.
    That would be a tall order. They currently have 832 (Wikipedia), so need another 168. There’s 46 weeks to go, I think. So they’d need to win 3.7 by-elections per week, ignoring defections to and from the party. That seems a bit more than they are doing.
    The current numbers:

    https://opencouncildata.co.uk/tracker.php

    Playfully, the Conservatives are losing 10 Councillors a week on those figures - so that'll be another 250 gone by the end of the year at that rate.
    Such generous lovers, always giving
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,219
    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
    Newton Abbott
    That's going to be extremely close at the next election: I'd reckon both the LDs and Reform will be on around 35%.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,947
    Hot take (from my mate who's an Iranian exile so make of that what you will):

    My Question: What do ordinary Iranians think of it all
    His Answer: They just want to get rid of the mullahs

    Q: Do they care that it's Israel doing the getting rid of
    A: No, in fact on X Iranians are tagging IGRC targets for the IDF and then the IDF attacks those targets [!!!!!!]

    Q: What is the concern, if any
    A: We are worried about the infrastructure
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,587
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
    Newton Abbott
    That's going to be extremely close at the next election: I'd reckon both the LDs and Reform will be on around 35%.
    Torridge and Tavistock looks likely to fall to Reform tbh. Wonder if Cox will retire.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,584
    edited 8:49AM
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    TimS said:

    Morming all,
    A bit of early morning polling as we have been starved over the weekend and the gap is closing a bit again (in a MoE way).....

    YouGov (15 to 16 Jun)

    Ref 27 (-2)
    Lab 24 (+1)
    Con 17 (=)
    LD 15 (=)
    Grn 10 (=)

    That Tory-LD gap is being a bit stubborn.
    Its not really changed since the Tory drop off immediately after the LEs. In fact very little has changed at all since that
    We all know Electoral Calculus is essentially useless given the multi-party nature of politics currently.

    The actual changes since July 2024 (allowing for rounding) are:

    Reform +13
    Labour -10
    Conservative -7
    LD +3
    Green +3

    We also know polling for the various local "Independents" is suspect so we don't know what's happening in places like East London or the Leicester and Birmingham seats where they polled well last year.

    The "trend" in local council by-elections (with usual bucketfuls of salt) has been to see BOTH Labour and Conservative lose significant vote share and that's reflected in the 17-point combined fall in the national opinion polls.

    Next year we'll have an intriguing round of local elections in London as well as for some of the new Shadow authorities but that's a lifetime away.
    Theres some fun to be had comparing council by election ward results versus the ward by ward 2024 estimates and some of the current ward by ward estimates. It does show the somewhat unsurprising news that Lab and Con are struggling to find the gas pedal (and that Reform are doing well everywhere but especially in redder walled areas)
    The interesting question for me for 2029 is: which seats - if any - will Reform win from the Liberal Democrats?

    Because Reform is highly likely to top the polls, with Conservative and Labour vote shares down sharply, while the LDs are probably going to be up a couple of points.

    Outside of Scotland, the Conservatives are the main opposition in almost every LibDem seat. In which of these could enough votes transfer to Reform to threaten the LDs?
    Newton Abbott
    That's going to be extremely close at the next election: I'd reckon both the LDs and Reform will be on around 35%.
    The party is well placed to win against Reform in a head to head, because it’ll get tactical transfers.

    According to Mark Pack Lib Dems have won 75% of council byelections since the locals, where they and Reform were the top 2. The other 25% were former Labour seats where LDs came up into 2nd.

    Labour and Tories have won 0% of head to heads with Reform since 1 May.

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,140

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @EylonALevy
    Israel has just assassinated Iranian military chief Ali Shademani.

    If you thought it had already done that, it’s because it assassinated his predecessor on Friday.

    https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1934857364030603651

    Their intelligence capabilities are just astonishing. They must have almost unlimited access to Irans computer systems and boots on the ground too.

    Does make me wonder yet again about October 7th though. Are we really to believe Israel had no advance warning of this from Iran’s surrogate?
    Apparently a portion of Hamas, which faced day-to-day attacks from the Israelis, opted out of everything electronic, and even much written stuff. They were worried about snooping on laptops, even disconnected from the net, according to reports.

    Unlike Hezbollah or the Iranian government. Who love technology.

    So the portion of Hamas that planned 7th October went to super paranoid cell structures, with verbal communication. That plus using networks of close family members only, was relatively successful at keeping the Israelis out.

    The paranoia went as far as not telling anyone outside the group what they were planing
    And of course that included Hamas not telling Iran about 7th October.
This discussion has been closed.