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The Challenge for… Plaid Cymru – politicalbetting.com

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  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 31,088
    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spot the almost subliminal flash of Rachel Reeves towards the end of Clarkson's Farm S4 E8!

    I like Clarkson's Farm but that stuff really winds me up. Whatever you think of the IHT change, the motivation for it was to prevent people like Clarkson inflating land prices by using it as a tax dodge. Part of the reason someone like Kaleb struggles to buy a farm is because the agricultural returns are so small, so the breakeven point is sometimes centuries in the future.

    I'd forgive him if at the end of the next season he sells the land to Kaleb for a fair price for use as a farm (e.g. something like £0).
    Labour should have just exempted family farms and small businesses held for 2 generations or more from the IHT tax changes, that way tax dodgers would still have been hit and not been competing with the likes of Kaleb to buy farmland but traditional farming families wouldn't
    Simpler - the IHT would be due when the land is sold. If the land is inherited again, then the IHT is replaced with the latest value, not doubled up.

    So if you keep the family farm in the family - no tax. If you make money from selling it, you pay the IHT out of that.
    Or a 5% taper per year of agricultural activity so a farm that has been active for 20+ years is exempted.

    It doesn't matter how many better ways there were, Labour aren't interested. This is a revenge beating for the countryside that ripped the UK out of the EU. It's not rational policy making, it's angry urban lefties exacting revenge.
    Though of course the NFU backed Remain and white working class ex industrial towns and seaside towns were even more strongly for Brexit than rural areas and Reform is now beating Labour in all of them
    Brexit was NOTA. Reform is NOTA. Since NOTA never works, there will be a new one along shortly. To get back on topic, probably Plaid is NOTA in the Valleys.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,970
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I don't think there is an explicit rule about oncoming cyclists - I've looked this up before. But I think the general guidance given by the Code would cover it anyway.

    This is a regular issue for me on one particular street with parked cars. I just take primary position to prevent any squeezing from either direction, and pull in where possible to let oncoming cars pass.
    I had three or four this morning oncoming that were, although around 10MPH, less than 1 metre. I didn’t feel unsafe more wary.
    Most drivers will slow to a crawl or stop if there's that little space - curious that the behaviour is different for oncoming versus an overtake. Because they can see your face, acknowledge you as a fellow human being?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,308
    edited June 12
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    That's a good point. I don't know. She may show a different passport at passport control than is registered with the airline. I'm not sure if those things are matched up.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,699

    Taz said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    We were out in Newcastle a Couple of Fridays ago. The bars were quiet. The restaurant packed. A sunny Friday in May. Before Covid the bars we went to would have been busy.
    I really do not know how anyone can afford to eat and drink out

    I cooked haddock, chips and peas for my beloved last night and it cost just over £4

    The local chippy is advertising the same on a special offer of £27.50 !!!

    The striking thing is just how little alcohol our family drinks and our 22 year old granddaughter is TT
    Haddock, chips and mushies for 2??
    4 x Birds Eye breaded haddock at £4.28 (on offer) equates to £1 each

    My wife is an expert on white fish and her highly successful Scottish skipper father maintained that frozen haddock is as good as fresh, and to be fair it tastes wonderful
    Thats 100g of fish per portion. Suspect the chippie will be 200-250g of fish each. Chips will be at least double normal portion too. Share it out and the price difference starts to looks sensible.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,613
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
    If more people going to university means its unaffordable, why doesn't the same logic apply to pensions and related benefits?

    We spend considerably less as a proportion of GDP on education as we did when eg Thatcher was Education Secretary or Prime Minister.

    We spend considerably more on age related welfare.

    We should bring those proportions of GDP back to how they were. If more students means less expenditure per student, so be it. If more pensioners means less expenditure per pensioner, then what's sauce for the goose ...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,613

    Taz said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    We were out in Newcastle a Couple of Fridays ago. The bars were quiet. The restaurant packed. A sunny Friday in May. Before Covid the bars we went to would have been busy.
    I really do not know how anyone can afford to eat and drink out

    I cooked haddock, chips and peas for my beloved last night and it cost just over £4

    The local chippy is advertising the same on a special offer of £27.50 !!!

    The striking thing is just how little alcohol our family drinks and our 22 year old granddaughter is TT
    Haddock, chips and mushies for 2??
    4 x Birds Eye breaded haddock at £4.28 (on offer) equates to £1 each

    My wife is an expert on white fish and her highly successful Scottish skipper father maintained that frozen haddock is as good as fresh, and to be fair it tastes wonderful
    Thats 100g of fish per portion. Suspect the chippie will be 200-250g of fish each. Chips will be at least double normal portion too. Share it out and the price difference starts to looks sensible.
    Only a tiny fraction of the cost of a takeaway actually goes on the food.

    Paying for the staff, the building, the bills etc eats up far more.

    All bills that have gone up this year, many by design of the Chancellor.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 14,651
    A useful update on the USA from the mighty David Allen Green. He provides a useful definition of constitutional crisis (as opposed to drama, situation etc):

    A crisis is a volatile situation the outcome of which cannot be confidently forecast. If you can predict what will happen next – or even the range of what events may happen next – it is not a crisis.

    https://davidallengreen.com/2025/06/a-postcard-from-a-spectator-of-a-constitutional-crisis/
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 24,699

    Taz said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    We were out in Newcastle a Couple of Fridays ago. The bars were quiet. The restaurant packed. A sunny Friday in May. Before Covid the bars we went to would have been busy.
    I really do not know how anyone can afford to eat and drink out

    I cooked haddock, chips and peas for my beloved last night and it cost just over £4

    The local chippy is advertising the same on a special offer of £27.50 !!!

    The striking thing is just how little alcohol our family drinks and our 22 year old granddaughter is TT
    Haddock, chips and mushies for 2??
    4 x Birds Eye breaded haddock at £4.28 (on offer) equates to £1 each

    My wife is an expert on white fish and her highly successful Scottish skipper father maintained that frozen haddock is as good as fresh, and to be fair it tastes wonderful
    Thats 100g of fish per portion. Suspect the chippie will be 200-250g of fish each. Chips will be at least double normal portion too. Share it out and the price difference starts to looks sensible.
    Only a tiny fraction of the cost of a takeaway actually goes on the food.

    Paying for the staff, the building, the bills etc eats up far more.

    All bills that have gone up this year, many by design of the Chancellor.
    Of course. But starting by comparing like with like. And not just the Chancellor but the cross party trend of the last couple of decades, continued by the current Chancellor.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,715
    edited June 12
    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Remember the Golden Rule

    Sooner or later, any decision made by Starmer’s Labour government turns out to be damaging for the UK

    This is now being applied to the Gibraltar deal. Falling apart under scrutiny

    What's the problem with the Gibraltar deal? They have fixed the border FUBAR so that people are able to cross it freely again as they need to. Gibraltar remains a BOT, the military facility remains untouched, and the people who voted in almost unanimity to not fuck their lives up get the fix they voted for.
    Loads of details about the passport arrangements now being revealed. Allegations on X such as: every British citizen entering Gibraltar will now have their passports checked by Spain and a stay in Gibraltar will count as a stay in Schenghen. As visiting the EU. The Spanish will control how and when the British visit British territory abroad

    Likewise some are claiming this will apply to British troops or sailors in the Navy
    OK. This is Gibraltar. The deal is great for everyone who lives there - who didn't vote to be walled in. The deal is great for the workers Gibraltar needs to cross from Spain and back each day. The deal makes no difference to most people travelling to Gibraltar as how may are close to the 90/180 barrier? Which itself is on its way out as we work towards a solution longer term.

    So in practice this deal in a very practical way improves the lives of the people of Gibraltar who voted for it. But imposes a theoretical dictat on Mr Keyboard of Clacton who doesn't travel to forrin anyway.
    Honestly this is classic @Leon. Shouting about stuff and expounding simple solutions to things that are always more complicated to implement. You wanted Brexit, which you thought was simple, but it had consequences, one of them being the border at Gibraltar. Are you coming up with a solution? No, just shouting again. This solves the big problem, but unfortunately may have a knock on problem for a small minority of others. You didn't seem to have any sympathy for all those people who were buggered by the 90/180 rule who had commitments (eg family), property of businesses in the EU, which was a huge number of people yet you are now worried about the very very minute number of Brits who both may make a visit to Gibraltar and who in addition might fall foul of the 90/180 day rule. With the exception of people stationed on Gibraltar it is unlikely to impact any UK visitors who weren't bordering on exceeding the limit anyway. You know those ones you didn't care about previously.

    As far as people stationed on the rock there will obviously have to be a solution because some are not just Navy sailors visiting, but based there for 3/6/12 months so will all fail the 90 day test.
    I don't see the issue: they would simply be residents. Just like a non-EU citizen resident in France technically is not supposed to spend more than 90/180 days in Schengen countries other than France. Not much by way of enforcement, of course.
    Yep, I don't there will be one. I am fully aware that Govt cock things up, but even the most idiotic civil servant, I believe, will have covered this one in the negotiations.

    Re the comment 'not much by way of enforcement, of course' is not correct. It is enforced. I personally know of two instances, in both cases errors by the border authorities, but in both cases visitors from the UK were held up for a few hours until resolved. If they had not been errors, I assume they would have been sent packing,as why both with detaining them in the first place.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,904
    Interesting header.

    I don't know much about my ancestors, but I know that my paternal great-grandparents migrated from NE Somerset in Merthyr Tydfil c.1900, to work in the burgeoning coalfields. Hence, Fear, a surname restricted to NE Somerset, became reasonably common in Glamorgan (all Fears are related to each other).
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,190
    stodge said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    Alternative economic insight - Bakewell on Monday. Market Day. Town very busy, every coffee shop and eatery full with tables scarce. Market traders closing up early as all stock sold.

    Coachloads coming in from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Melton Mowbray full of Britain’s new grey monied elite. The healthy 50 and 60 something’s with time and money to burn keeping the economy moving.
    I used to go to Bakewell regularly when I was on the Peak Park Authority. It is still one of my favourite day trips - except when you have to queue to get into the town.



  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,514
    edited June 12
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
    Nah. The point was that the previous generation could make the same choice without such an additional tax.

    In any event 18 year olds have no real idea what we had to pay. For example the interest rate on the loan has been far higher than expected. I now earn higher than the median income but I pay a pathetically small amount off the capital per month due to the high interest rate AND the thresholds have been frozen
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,305
    edited June 12
    kjh said:

    carnforth said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Remember the Golden Rule

    Sooner or later, any decision made by Starmer’s Labour government turns out to be damaging for the UK

    This is now being applied to the Gibraltar deal. Falling apart under scrutiny

    What's the problem with the Gibraltar deal? They have fixed the border FUBAR so that people are able to cross it freely again as they need to. Gibraltar remains a BOT, the military facility remains untouched, and the people who voted in almost unanimity to not fuck their lives up get the fix they voted for.
    Loads of details about the passport arrangements now being revealed. Allegations on X such as: every British citizen entering Gibraltar will now have their passports checked by Spain and a stay in Gibraltar will count as a stay in Schenghen. As visiting the EU. The Spanish will control how and when the British visit British territory abroad

    Likewise some are claiming this will apply to British troops or sailors in the Navy
    OK. This is Gibraltar. The deal is great for everyone who lives there - who didn't vote to be walled in. The deal is great for the workers Gibraltar needs to cross from Spain and back each day. The deal makes no difference to most people travelling to Gibraltar as how may are close to the 90/180 barrier? Which itself is on its way out as we work towards a solution longer term.

    So in practice this deal in a very practical way improves the lives of the people of Gibraltar who voted for it. But imposes a theoretical dictat on Mr Keyboard of Clacton who doesn't travel to forrin anyway.
    Honestly this is classic @Leon. Shouting about stuff and expounding simple solutions to things that are always more complicated to implement. You wanted Brexit, which you thought was simple, but it had consequences, one of them being the border at Gibraltar. Are you coming up with a solution? No, just shouting again. This solves the big problem, but unfortunately may have a knock on problem for a small minority of others. You didn't seem to have any sympathy for all those people who were buggered by the 90/180 rule who had commitments (eg family), property of businesses in the EU, which was a huge number of people yet you are now worried about the very very minute number of Brits who both may make a visit to Gibraltar and who in addition might fall foul of the 90/180 day rule. With the exception of people stationed on Gibraltar it is unlikely to impact any UK visitors who weren't bordering on exceeding the limit anyway. You know those ones you didn't care about previously.

    As far as people stationed on the rock there will obviously have to be a solution because some are not just Navy sailors visiting, but based there for 3/6/12 months so will all fail the 90 day test.
    I don't see the issue: they would simply be residents. Just like a non-EU citizen resident in France technically is not supposed to spend more than 90/180 days in Schengen countries other than France. Not much by way of enforcement, of course.
    Yep, I don't there will be one. I am fully aware that Govt cock things up, but even the most idiotic civil servant, I believe, will have covered this one in the negotiations.

    Re the comment 'not much by way of enforcement, of course' is not correct. It is enforced. I personally know of two instances, in both cases errors by the border authorities, but in both cases visitors from the UK were held up for a few hours until resolved. if they had not been errors, I assume they would have been sent packing as why both with detaining them in the first case.
    By enforcement, I mean this: if I get a work visa for France, and enter and live in France as a permanent resident, I do not have FoM. I am not supposed to be in Spain for 6 months a year, for example. That is relatively hard to enforce...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,613

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
    Nah. The point was that the previous generation could make the same choice without such an additional tax.

    In any event 18 year olds have no real idea what we had to pay. For example the interest rate on the loan has been far higher than expected. I now earn higher than the median income but I pay a pathetically small amount off the capital per month due to the high interest rate AND the thresholds have been frozen
    Indeed, and its even worse for younger generations.

    To get even an OK let alone a good job nowadays rather needs a degree and that means facing an immediate 37% tax rate not even including Employers NICs while on basic rate tax.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,834
    slade said:

    stodge said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    Alternative economic insight - Bakewell on Monday. Market Day. Town very busy, every coffee shop and eatery full with tables scarce. Market traders closing up early as all stock sold.

    Coachloads coming in from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Melton Mowbray full of Britain’s new grey monied elite. The healthy 50 and 60 something’s with time and money to burn keeping the economy moving.
    I used to go to Bakewell regularly when I was on the Peak Park Authority. It is still one of my favourite day trips - except when you have to queue to get into the town.



    It could really do with railway line... :)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,531
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,613
    slade said:

    stodge said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    Alternative economic insight - Bakewell on Monday. Market Day. Town very busy, every coffee shop and eatery full with tables scarce. Market traders closing up early as all stock sold.

    Coachloads coming in from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Melton Mowbray full of Britain’s new grey monied elite. The healthy 50 and 60 something’s with time and money to burn keeping the economy moving.
    I used to go to Bakewell regularly when I was on the Peak Park Authority. It is still one of my favourite day trips - except when you have to queue to get into the town.



    Do the queues make you feel a bit tart about Bakewell?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,702
    Fishing said:

    I was thinking about the following the other day:

    The three most powerful men in the world, Putin, Xi and Trump, all had extraordinarily traumatic childhoods. Trump, though wealthy, had a sociopathic father who sent him to military school and for whom nothing was ever good enough. Xi endured some of the worst of the Cultural Revolution. Putin grew up with street gangs in the worst parts of Leningrad.

    And we wonder why the world is becoming more turbulent.

    I wonder if there is a way to stop damaged, destructive psychopaths from rising to the top of political systems? Certainly Presidential systems, which favour deluded, lying narcissists, are almost designed for them.

    It's an important issue which I don't think gets nearly enough attention.

    Interesting point. Obviously, Putin and Xi rose through effectively non-democratic systems compared to Trump. All rely on propaganda: in two cases, imposed by the state; in the other, self-selected by audiences within a capitalist system.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,305
    edited June 12
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316

    Poundland sold for 1 Euro. I'm sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.

    Who says accountants don't have a sense of irony?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,081

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spot the almost subliminal flash of Rachel Reeves towards the end of Clarkson's Farm S4 E8!

    I like Clarkson's Farm but that stuff really winds me up. Whatever you think of the IHT change, the motivation for it was to prevent people like Clarkson inflating land prices by using it as a tax dodge. Part of the reason someone like Kaleb struggles to buy a farm is because the agricultural returns are so small, so the breakeven point is sometimes centuries in the future.

    I'd forgive him if at the end of the next season he sells the land to Kaleb for a fair price for use as a farm (e.g. something like £0).
    Labour should have just exempted family farms and small businesses held for 2 generations or more from the IHT tax changes, that way tax dodgers would still have been hit and not been competing with the likes of Kaleb to buy farmland but traditional farming families wouldn't
    Simpler - the IHT would be due when the land is sold. If the land is inherited again, then the IHT is replaced with the latest value, not doubled up.

    So if you keep the family farm in the family - no tax. If you make money from selling it, you pay the IHT out of that.
    Or a 5% taper per year of agricultural activity so a farm that has been active for 20+ years is exempted.

    It doesn't matter how many better ways there were, Labour aren't interested. This is a revenge beating for the countryside that ripped the UK out of the EU. It's not rational policy making, it's angry urban lefties exacting revenge.
    Though of course the NFU backed Remain and white working class ex industrial towns and seaside towns were even more strongly for Brexit than rural areas and Reform is now beating Labour in all of them
    Brexit was NOTA. Reform is NOTA. Since NOTA never works, there will be a new one along shortly. To get back on topic, probably Plaid is NOTA in the Valleys.
    Reform are doing well in the Valleys not just Plaid as Reform also are firmly anti immigration unlike Plaid, much as Brexit was in large part an anti immigration not just NOTA vote
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,531
    kjh said:


    As far as people stationed on the rock there will obviously have to be a solution because some are not just Navy sailors visiting, but based there for 3/6/12 months so will all fail the 90 day test.

    This is a solved problem as there are already plenty of UK personnel permanently posted inside Schengen - SHAPE in Belgium, AIRCOM in Germany, etc.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    Fishing said:

    I was thinking about the following the other day:

    The three most powerful men in the world, Putin, Xi and Trump, all had extraordinarily traumatic childhoods. Trump, though wealthy, had a sociopathic father who sent him to military school and for whom nothing was ever good enough. Xi endured some of the worst of the Cultural Revolution. Putin grew up with street gangs in the worst parts of Leningrad.

    And we wonder why the world is becoming more turbulent.

    I wonder if there is a way to stop damaged, destructive psychopaths from rising to the top of political systems? Certainly Presidential systems, which favour deluded, lying narcissists, are almost designed for them.

    It's an important issue which I don't think gets nearly enough attention.

    Interesting point. Obviously, Putin and Xi rose through effectively non-democratic systems compared to Trump. All rely on propaganda: in two cases, imposed by the state; in the other, self-selected by audiences within a capitalist system.
    Yes, interesting thought. Private Eye has an article this week about the dangers of letting successful business tycoons (doubtful in Trump's case of course) anywhere near the top of politics because they're normally surrounded by Yes men and as Thatcher intimated, people at the top need someone to speak truth to power.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804
    @harriet_symonds

    EXC: Tory MPs on Lib Dem defection watch

    There have been informal discussions with Tory MPs on the 'left' uneasy with the party shifting further to the right to combat the threat of Reform

    https://x.com/harriet_symonds/status/1933109878664679664
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,421
    Dura_Ace said:

    kjh said:


    As far as people stationed on the rock there will obviously have to be a solution because some are not just Navy sailors visiting, but based there for 3/6/12 months so will all fail the 90 day test.

    This is a solved problem as there are already plenty of UK personnel permanently posted inside Schengen - SHAPE in Belgium, AIRCOM in Germany, etc.
    Yep.

    And as for the 90/180 arrangements, this is what Boris demanded when he required Britain be tret as a 3rd country. I am confused by some of the people now complaining about Labour trying to solve the Tory mess!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    Please delete and repost to Labour List!

    (We don't want that sort of alternative fact on here!)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 14,702

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spot the almost subliminal flash of Rachel Reeves towards the end of Clarkson's Farm S4 E8!

    I like Clarkson's Farm but that stuff really winds me up. Whatever you think of the IHT change, the motivation for it was to prevent people like Clarkson inflating land prices by using it as a tax dodge. Part of the reason someone like Kaleb struggles to buy a farm is because the agricultural returns are so small, so the breakeven point is sometimes centuries in the future.

    I'd forgive him if at the end of the next season he sells the land to Kaleb for a fair price for use as a farm (e.g. something like £0).
    Labour should have just exempted family farms and small businesses held for 2 generations or more from the IHT tax changes, that way tax dodgers would still have been hit and not been competing with the likes of Kaleb to buy farmland but traditional farming families wouldn't
    Simpler - the IHT would be due when the land is sold. If the land is inherited again, then the IHT is replaced with the latest value, not doubled up.

    So if you keep the family farm in the family - no tax. If you make money from selling it, you pay the IHT out of that.
    Or a 5% taper per year of agricultural activity so a farm that has been active for 20+ years is exempted.

    It doesn't matter how many better ways there were, Labour aren't interested. This is a revenge beating for the countryside that ripped the UK out of the EU. It's not rational policy making, it's angry urban lefties exacting revenge.
    Though of course the NFU backed Remain and white working class ex industrial towns and seaside towns were even more strongly for Brexit than rural areas and Reform is now beating Labour in all of them
    Brexit was NOTA. Reform is NOTA. Since NOTA never works, there will be a new one along shortly. To get back on topic, probably Plaid is NOTA in the Valleys.
    I don't think they were/are all NOTA. There's an element to that, but there's also a big slice of grievance politics. "You are hard done by and it's because of the EU/immigrants," is Farage's message. PC, as the SNP, have often done the same, but replace "EU/immigrants" by "Westminster/the English".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    Dura_Ace said:

    kjh said:


    As far as people stationed on the rock there will obviously have to be a solution because some are not just Navy sailors visiting, but based there for 3/6/12 months so will all fail the 90 day test.

    This is a solved problem as there are already plenty of UK personnel permanently posted inside Schengen - SHAPE in Belgium, AIRCOM in Germany, etc.
    Yep.

    And as for the 90/180 arrangements, this is what Boris demanded when he required Britain be tret as a 3rd country. I am confused by some of the people now complaining about Labour trying to solve the Tory mess!
    Underlines the fact that Leaving was a bad idea, a short-term 'answer' to a different problem.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MaxPB said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spot the almost subliminal flash of Rachel Reeves towards the end of Clarkson's Farm S4 E8!

    I like Clarkson's Farm but that stuff really winds me up. Whatever you think of the IHT change, the motivation for it was to prevent people like Clarkson inflating land prices by using it as a tax dodge. Part of the reason someone like Kaleb struggles to buy a farm is because the agricultural returns are so small, so the breakeven point is sometimes centuries in the future.

    I'd forgive him if at the end of the next season he sells the land to Kaleb for a fair price for use as a farm (e.g. something like £0).
    Labour should have just exempted family farms and small businesses held for 2 generations or more from the IHT tax changes, that way tax dodgers would still have been hit and not been competing with the likes of Kaleb to buy farmland but traditional farming families wouldn't
    Simpler - the IHT would be due when the land is sold. If the land is inherited again, then the IHT is replaced with the latest value, not doubled up.

    So if you keep the family farm in the family - no tax. If you make money from selling it, you pay the IHT out of that.
    Or a 5% taper per year of agricultural activity so a farm that has been active for 20+ years is exempted.

    It doesn't matter how many better ways there were, Labour aren't interested. This is a revenge beating for the countryside that ripped the UK out of the EU. It's not rational policy making, it's angry urban lefties exacting revenge.
    Though of course the NFU backed Remain and white working class ex industrial towns and seaside towns were even more strongly for Brexit than rural areas and Reform is now beating Labour in all of them
    Brexit was NOTA. Reform is NOTA. Since NOTA never works, there will be a new one along shortly. To get back on topic, probably Plaid is NOTA in the Valleys.
    Reform are doing well in the Valleys not just Plaid as Reform also are firmly anti immigration unlike Plaid, much as Brexit was in large part an anti immigration not just NOTA vote
    Of course they are! Farage is going to reopen deep coal mines and both Port Talbot blast furnaces.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,613
    AnthonyT said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. Budget yesterday - commentary verdicts seem to be somewhere around "Still on the road Speed Bumps Ahead".

    I listened to the main speeches yesterday, and I thought Reeves to be quite flat, and perhaps not political enough.

    Stride's response was imo not on planet earth - his reliance on comparisons with the fantasy numbers the Cons put forward at Election ("we would have ..."), and by which they lost 2/3 of their MPs, was embarrassing and risible, and his party is nowhere near a position to try and occupy the high ground.

    Reeves' reply was better, but still imo not enough of a stake through the heart on the Cons.

    On the budget, £39bn to help social housing over 10 years looks like something like 400-800k houses, or 40-80k per year average at 50-100k per unit assuming a partial contribution. Enough in quantity, and is it deloverable?

    It may help, and one hopes that social housing providers have the systems in place to enforce standards better - usually the houses have higher spec than equivalent developer houses for sale.

    I can't see too many landmines yet, except perhaps impact of police costs on Council Tax, but perhaps there is an upside to reminding communities that we pay for our own police. Usually in England about 2/3 of police funding is national, so there is room to shift that a little.

    My first political thought is that the Govt need to make sure they follow through on Council Tax reform alongside the Local Govt reorganisation, including making Council Tax properly proportional to house value, and abolishing Stamp Duty as the biscuit.

    My photo quota: police funding:

    Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/police-funding-for-england-and-wales-2015-to-2025/police-funding-for-england-and-wales-2015-to-2025

    Outside of defence, capital investment has actually fallen on some measures.

    https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/press-releases/britain-is-turning-into-a-national-health-state-as-lower-income-families-gain-most-from-spending-review/
    ..The £9.7 billion a year increase in capital spending between 2025-26 and 2029-30 includes an increase of £5.9 billion of financial transactions (primarily loans), with around two-fifths of the Warm Homes Plan now being funded by loans rather grants. Once these financial transactions are stripped out, the £7.4 billion a year increase in defence contrasts sharply with the £3.6 billion cut to real investment across all other departments...

    And 90% of the spending increases go to health.
    Yet Freedman's conclusion is "...the decision to keep health spending lower than the historical average is the single biggest political risk the government is taking".
    We need radical measures to make people take more responsibility for their own health. Give people fitbits and tax credits for exercise. Massive public health campaigns around diet. We also need to think about end of life care. We are spending increasing chunks of GDP rectifying people's poor lifestyle choices and keeping people alive for a few extra months of low quality life, and starving areas like infrastructure and education where spending could make a far greater difference to our wealth and wellbeing. It's madness.
    Normalising assisted dying for end of life will improve matters tremendously, primarily for those who are suffering.
    You haven't read the Bill have you? Pain is not a reason to get AD under the Bill.
    The Bill doesn't remotely go far enough, but if this is the compromise needed to get it through then better than nothing.

    Hopefully in a few years time, when people get over the fact that its happened and the world hasn't ended, it can be democratically liberalised much further.

    Hopefully one day we'll look back and question how we ever had a situation where people in suffering weren't allowed to end their pain as humanely as we treat beloved pets.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,697

    Please delete and repost to Labour List!

    (We don't want that sort of alternative fact on here!)
    Fact is down from 7.42 to 7.39 million

    Long way to go
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,190

    slade said:

    stodge said:

    Economic insight from Sainsbury's carpark:-

    Deserted yesterday. What we may be seeing is families without children taking their holidays early before the schools break up and prices skyrocket. And in light of recent years, also before August heatwaves make France and points south unbearable. (Or, who knows, they might just be following the Gazette's travel writer.)

    All of which means less spending in Blighty and more invisible imports wrecking our balance of trade.

    Alternative economic insight - Bakewell on Monday. Market Day. Town very busy, every coffee shop and eatery full with tables scarce. Market traders closing up early as all stock sold.

    Coachloads coming in from as far as Manchester, Liverpool and Melton Mowbray full of Britain’s new grey monied elite. The healthy 50 and 60 something’s with time and money to burn keeping the economy moving.
    I used to go to Bakewell regularly when I was on the Peak Park Authority. It is still one of my favourite day trips - except when you have to queue to get into the town.



    Do the queues make you feel a bit tart about Bakewell?
    Not when I'm 'pudding' on the style.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,339
    Scott_xP said:

    @harriet_symonds

    EXC: Tory MPs on Lib Dem defection watch

    There have been informal discussions with Tory MPs on the 'left' uneasy with the party shifting further to the right to combat the threat of Reform

    https://x.com/harriet_symonds/status/1933109878664679664

    When they need to leak it, its not happening
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    Scott_xP said:

    @harriet_symonds

    EXC: Tory MPs on Lib Dem defection watch

    There have been informal discussions with Tory MPs on the 'left' uneasy with the party shifting further to the right to combat the threat of Reform

    https://x.com/harriet_symonds/status/1933109878664679664

    Does that mean we can't automatically add Con to Ref? Surely not.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,037
    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    If you are dual national, you are supposed to travel in and out of the countries you have passports for on that passport.

    So enter and leave India on your Indian passport. Enter and leave UK on your U.K. passport.

    In the UK, if you are a citizen, your other nationalities are legally irrelevant - you have no right of consular access etc to another country. You are just a U.K. citizens for all purposes.

    Nearly every country does the same for dual nationals.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    edited June 12

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    If you are dual national, you are supposed to travel in and out of the countries you have passports for on that passport.

    So enter and leave India on your Indian passport. Enter and leave UK on your U.K. passport.

    In the UK, if you are a citizen, your other nationalities are legally irrelevant - you have no right of consular access etc to another country. You are just a U.K. citizens for all purposes.

    Nearly every country does the same for dual nationals.
    Except, as explained above, India does NOT allow dual citizenship...

    If you are of "Indian origin" you can apply for an OCI (Overseas Citizen of India) which is in effect a life-long visa.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,752
    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,697

    Scott_xP said:

    @harriet_symonds

    EXC: Tory MPs on Lib Dem defection watch

    There have been informal discussions with Tory MPs on the 'left' uneasy with the party shifting further to the right to combat the threat of Reform

    https://x.com/harriet_symonds/status/1933109878664679664

    Does that mean we can't automatically add Con to Ref? Surely not.
    Don't tell @HYUFD
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316

    Please delete and repost to Labour List!

    (We don't want that sort of alternative fact on here!)
    Fact is down from 7.42 to 7.39 million

    Long way to go
    Thanks for that. Can we thus consider it a rise in waiting times?

    When the Conservatives were in Government in 2010 satisfaction with the NHS was at an all time high. 15 years later under a Labour Government it's never been worse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,081
    edited June 12

    Scott_xP said:

    @harriet_symonds

    EXC: Tory MPs on Lib Dem defection watch

    There have been informal discussions with Tory MPs on the 'left' uneasy with the party shifting further to the right to combat the threat of Reform

    https://x.com/harriet_symonds/status/1933109878664679664

    When they need to leak it, its not happening
    Not now but if Kemi was removed as leader and replaced by Jenrick I suspect a few One Nation Tory MPs ie the type who backed Stride, Tugendhat and Cleverly at the last leadership election and represent southern seats would indeed go LD. Certainly if Jenrick made a pact with Farage
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    algarkirk said:

    A useful update on the USA from the mighty David Allen Green. He provides a useful definition of constitutional crisis (as opposed to drama, situation etc):

    A crisis is a volatile situation the outcome of which cannot be confidently forecast. If you can predict what will happen next – or even the range of what events may happen next – it is not a crisis.

    https://davidallengreen.com/2025/06/a-postcard-from-a-spectator-of-a-constitutional-crisis/

    We are therefore witnessing a constitutional crisis, IMO.

    "Or even the range of events" is a pretty silly qualification, as one could create a range which encompasses an enormous number of possibilities.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
    Nah. The point was that the previous generation could make the same choice without such an additional tax.

    In any event 18 year olds have no real idea what we had to pay. For example the interest rate on the loan has been far higher than expected. I now earn higher than the median income but I pay a pathetically small amount off the capital per month due to the high interest rate AND the thresholds have been frozen
    Back in my day (I know, I know) students planning to enter such professions as accountancy, banking or the law (certainly solicitors) normally did so by leaving school at 16 with a clutch of decent O levels and completing the professional society's exams. Even in my son's time, thirty years later one could get a decent City job and do professional exams, combined with practical experience.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,531
    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    It's probably fine if you never intend to travel to India. If she traveled to India on her (theoretically retained) Indian passport then she'd have no valid UK visa in it to come back. If she took her UK passport with her then there's a chance of discovery at customs. She is far less insouciant than me when it comes to flouting the law.

    Ultimately, the very slim benefits of Indian citizen vs. NRI status don't make it worth the risk and hassle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    AnthonyT said:

    Feb 0.7
    Mar 0.2
    Apr -0.3

    Off a cliff. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

    Even that is a lagging indicator. The real economy is in a hell of a mess.
    Who could have ever thought that raising taxes on employment while leaving unearned incomes untaxed might not be the best way to manage an economy?
    Savings are taxed. Dividends are taxed. The tax on dividends has been increased. Pensions are taxed. Assets when sold are taxed. Other than houses you live in. Are you suggesting CGT on the sale of houses?
    True. but it's bad politics for workers to be taxed more heavily than the retired (like me). And the low tax/untaxed nature of residential property is a disaster distorting the market and giving all the wrong incentives.

    Also distorting the market is the ludicrous IHT rules whereby the rate is far too high (40%) and the exemptions capricious (extra if you own a home etc) and the ways of avoiding it a series of open goals, keeping Lincoln's Inn in business.

    Low rate (5-10%), no exemptions, CTT at the same rate on inter vivos transactions is the way forward.
    What mince are you talking , the only tax (sic ) that can be different is NI for working pensioners. So unless you specifically mean that miniscule point then you are talking absolute bollox.
    NI should apply to all pension income itself not just working.

    Taxes should be no higher on working for a living than not working.

    Don't like it? Get a job.
    You halfwitted poltroon I have a job, can you actually read. I bet I pay more tax than you earn on benefits as well.
    You don't pay NI, you don't pay the graduate tax, and I don't get a penny in benefits. So if you pay even a penny in tax that exceeds what I earn in benefits, but that's nothing to be proud of.

    So other than that, great job. 0/3, well done.
    I get NI and agree but why should he pay the graduate tax. Our generation precious few went to university. I didn’t. I got a trade. But my taxes funded people going to uni. Okay. That’s fine. It’s the best of the best. But nowadays it’s anyone and everyone. We don’t reap a massive benefit from that.

    Uni education is a free market and people go into it knowing what it is and what they have to pay.
    If more people going to university means its unaffordable, why doesn't the same logic apply to pensions and related benefits?

    We spend considerably less as a proportion of GDP on education as we did when eg Thatcher was Education Secretary or Prime Minister.

    We spend considerably more on age related welfare.

    We should bring those proportions of GDP back to how they were. If more students means less expenditure per student, so be it. If more pensioners means less expenditure per pensioner, then what's sauce for the goose ...
    You’ll find we’re not miles apart on this. Enjoy your day
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,037

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    If you are dual national, you are supposed to travel in and out of the countries you have passports for on that passport.

    So enter and leave India on your Indian passport. Enter and leave UK on your U.K. passport.

    In the UK, if you are a citizen, your other nationalities are legally irrelevant - you have no right of consular access etc to another country. You are just a U.K. citizens for all purposes.

    Nearly every country does the same for dual nationals.
    Except, as explained above, India does NOT allow dual citizenship...

    If you are of "Indian origin" you can apply for an OCI (Overseas Citizen of India) which is in effect a life-long visa.
    Isn’t the OCI just a hack to get round a law which some didn’t want changed?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,834
    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
    Thank you and also thank you @eabhal for your responses

    Last thing I want to do is start dobbing in my neighbours but I’m getting the right hunp over the lack of consideration. I’d rather they were aware than shook down for money
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,520
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    It's probably fine if you never intend to travel to India. If she traveled to India on her (theoretically retained) Indian passport then she'd have no valid UK visa in it to come back. If she took her UK passport with her then there's a chance of discovery at customs. She is far less insouciant than me when it comes to flouting the law.

    Ultimately, the very slim benefits of Indian citizen vs. NRI status don't make it worth the risk and hassle.
    It’s interesting that the border authorities would care whether their own citizens can leave their own country again.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    If you are dual national, you are supposed to travel in and out of the countries you have passports for on that passport.

    So enter and leave India on your Indian passport. Enter and leave UK on your U.K. passport.

    In the UK, if you are a citizen, your other nationalities are legally irrelevant - you have no right of consular access etc to another country. You are just a U.K. citizens for all purposes.

    Nearly every country does the same for dual nationals.
    Except, as explained above, India does NOT allow dual citizenship...

    If you are of "Indian origin" you can apply for an OCI (Overseas Citizen of India) which is in effect a life-long visa.
    Isn’t the OCI just a hack to get round a law which some didn’t want changed?
    I have an OCI myself, because I am a British citizen, and have never held Indian citizenship. Part of the process required me having to get a notarised affidavit stating I never held Indian citizenship!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,339
    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere
  • HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    IanB2 said:

    Spot the almost subliminal flash of Rachel Reeves towards the end of Clarkson's Farm S4 E8!

    I like Clarkson's Farm but that stuff really winds me up. Whatever you think of the IHT change, the motivation for it was to prevent people like Clarkson inflating land prices by using it as a tax dodge. Part of the reason someone like Kaleb struggles to buy a farm is because the agricultural returns are so small, so the breakeven point is sometimes centuries in the future.

    I'd forgive him if at the end of the next season he sells the land to Kaleb for a fair price for use as a farm (e.g. something like £0).
    Labour should have just exempted family farms and small businesses held for 2 generations or more from the IHT tax changes, that way tax dodgers would still have been hit and not been competing with the likes of Kaleb to buy farmland but traditional farming families wouldn't
    Simpler - the IHT would be due when the land is sold. If the land is inherited again, then the IHT is replaced with the latest value, not doubled up.

    So if you keep the family farm in the family - no tax. If you make money from selling it, you pay the IHT out of that.
    I think tax could have been raised in a fairer way by leaving IHT alone and by getting rid of "rebasing" for CGT on death.

    I inherited a business from my Dad. He'd built it from scratch so was sitting on a large unrealised gain. I inherited it with zero CGT and zero IHT. Happy as that made me, it seems unfair.

    CGT is only payable on disposal, so getting rid of rebasing doesn't trigger sob stories about family farms having to be sold to meet a tax bill on death, but it does disincentivise the use of farmland to shelter "passive" wealth and pass it to the next generation.

    (With inflation likely to be more of an issue in the next 20 years than it was in the last 20, we also need to look at reintroducing indexation for CGT, especially if the headline rate is going up any further, but that is a separate point).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    edited June 12
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    It's probably fine if you never intend to travel to India. If she traveled to India on her (theoretically retained) Indian passport then she'd have no valid UK visa in it to come back. If she took her UK passport with her then there's a chance of discovery at customs. She is far less insouciant than me when it comes to flouting the law.

    Ultimately, the very slim benefits of Indian citizen vs. NRI status don't make it worth the risk and hassle.
    I'm sure there is an official "Certificate of Indian passport surrender" or somesuch.

    Mum still has her Indian passport, but has a new-fangled "E-visa" (Indefinite Leave). Due to teething problems with the system when trying to "link" to a new passport, I've told her to hang onto her much older passport with paper Visa sticker AND her BRP (Biometric Residence Permit) just in case!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,081

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    Usually of course, because the poor b****rs can't answer back.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 55,037

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    The RAT may have been down…
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,731

    tlg86 said:
    'Those ghastly Islamist gangsters Hamas have attacked our ghastly Islamist gangsters!'
    Here's what the US's friends the Saudi's think of the hoo-ha

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgoZrOyI99c
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,339
    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    They had RefCon at 55% earlier in the year (28 and 27)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,697

    Please delete and repost to Labour List!

    (We don't want that sort of alternative fact on here!)
    Fact is down from 7.42 to 7.39 million

    Long way to go
    Thanks for that. Can we thus consider it a rise in waiting times?

    When the Conservatives were in Government in 2010 satisfaction with the NHS was at an all time high. 15 years later under a Labour Government it's never been worse.
    I believe covid has had a large effect, not just on the economy and debt, but also long covid and the change in behaviour since

    Labour are spending untold billions on the NHS, and another 29 billion yesterday and yet it remains a bottomless pit for money

    Social care needs sorting, but that has been kicked into the long grass

    And as you know, Wales NHS is in a shocking state under Welsh Labour
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 78,241
    edited June 12
    Younger PBers might be interested to know that it's looking increasingly likely we (or rather a small probe) could reach Alpha Centauri in about four decades.

    Pentagonal photonic crystal mirrors: scalable lightsails with enhanced acceleration via neural topology optimization

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-57749-y
    The Starshot Breakthrough Initiative aims to send gram-scale microchip probes to Alpha Centauri within 20 years, propelled by laser-driven lightsails at a fifth of light speed. This mission demands innovative lightsail materials with meter-scale dimensions, nanoscale thickness, and billions of nanoscale holes for enhanced reflectivity and reduced mass. Unlike the microchip payload, lightsail fabrication requires breakthroughs in optics, materials science, and structural engineering. Our study uses neural topology optimization, revealing a novel pentagonal lattice-based photonic crystal (PhC) reflector. The optimized designs significantly lower the acceleration times and, thereby, launch cost. Crucially, they also enabled orders-of-magnitude fabrication cost reduction. We fabricated a 60 × 60 mm2, 200 nm thick reflector with over a billion nanoscale features, achieving a 9000-fold cost reduction per m2. This represents the highest aspect ratio nanophotonic element to date. While stringent requirements remain for lightsails, scalable, cost-effective nanophotonics present promising solutions for next-generation space exploration.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    Freshwater Strategies will be the gold standard once they get their BPC certification.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    BBC reporter just said there might be "dual citizens" on board!

    [FACE PALM]
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,531

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    Usually of course, because the poor b****rs can't answer back.
    ~80% of all aviation mishaps are caused by the operating crew, so it's a pretty safe bet.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    Please delete and repost to Labour List!

    (We don't want that sort of alternative fact on here!)
    Fact is down from 7.42 to 7.39 million

    Long way to go
    Thanks for that. Can we thus consider it a rise in waiting times?

    When the Conservatives were in Government in 2010 satisfaction with the NHS was at an all time high. 15 years later under a Labour Government it's never been worse.
    I believe covid has had a large effect, not just on the economy and debt, but also long covid and the change in behaviour since

    Labour are spending untold billions on the NHS, and another 29 billion yesterday and yet it remains a bottomless pit for money

    Social care needs sorting, but that has been kicked into the long grass

    And as you know, Wales NHS is in a shocking state under Welsh Labour
    The NHS, and health generally, has to be a bottomless pit. Ill health will always be with us, especially, as you and I know, one ages!

    And social care is 'too difficult'. For the same reason.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,305
    edited June 12
    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    It's probably fine if you never intend to travel to India. If she traveled to India on her (theoretically retained) Indian passport then she'd have no valid UK visa in it to come back. If she took her UK passport with her then there's a chance of discovery at customs. She is far less insouciant than me when it comes to flouting the law.

    Ultimately, the very slim benefits of Indian citizen vs. NRI status don't make it worth the risk and hassle.
    Ah, didn't know about NRI. As I understand it it's much harder for China. If you give up citizenship, you need a visa just the same as anyone else. To re-migrate, say to look after ageing relatives, requires a complicated application (or so I am told).
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,339

    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    Freshwater Strategies will be the gold standard once they get their BPC certification.
    The Angus Reid de nos jours
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    It's probably fine if you never intend to travel to India. If she traveled to India on her (theoretically retained) Indian passport then she'd have no valid UK visa in it to come back. If she took her UK passport with her then there's a chance of discovery at customs. She is far less insouciant than me when it comes to flouting the law.

    Ultimately, the very slim benefits of Indian citizen vs. NRI status don't make it worth the risk and hassle.
    Ah, didn't know about NRI. As I understand it it's much harder for China. If you give citizenship, you need a visa. To re-migrate, say to look after ageing relatives, requires a complicated application (or so I am told).
    NRI just means "Non-Resident Indian (Citizen)" .

    Mum falls into that category.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,697
    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    @Mexicanpete just warned about that and I expected you to fall in the trap, which you have

    You cannot combine conservative and reform votes
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,804
    Ummm, no

    @irritatedllama.bsky.social‬

    Irene Davidson, Reform’s candidate for the Blundellsands ward in the upcoming by election in Liverpool.

    https://bsky.app/profile/irritatedllama.bsky.social/post/3lrfmw4mrvk2n
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,119
    edited June 12
    .
    carnforth said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    My wife has US and Irish passports. She's always used the US passport when travelling to the US and the Irish passport in the other direction.

    Anyone with a British passport would use it when travelling to Britain to avoid any question of visa issues.
    Airlines don't mind if you put in two different passport numbers for out and return?

    I suspect this only works for her because the USA, like us, doesn't have exit controls.
    It's irrelevant anyway because you can't have dual nationality with Indian citizenship. Mrs DA had to surrender Indian citizenship when she got her brexit bus pass.
    I have friends who were supposed to give up Chinese citizenship when they took British, but didn't. They use the Chinese passports when visiting China so it isn't noticed. And they don't tell their friends, so no-one dobs them in.

    How would the Indian authorities find out your wife has taken a British passport? Do we have some sort of data sharing agreement with them we don't with the Chinese?
    I think the authorities would know by the status of the British long stay visa/ILR stamp in their Chinese or Indian passports. You wouldn't get one if you are a UK national. They may not bother to check of course.

    And add, they wouldn't be able to return to the UK on their Chinese or Indian passports.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316

    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    @Mexicanpete just warned about that and I expected you to fall in the trap, which you have

    You cannot combine conservative and reform votes
    He can, and inevitably he has.

    Caveat emptor: An applicant to the BPC only, and seen as Liberal favourable in its native Australia.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    Scott_xP said:

    Ummm, no

    @irritatedllama.bsky.social‬

    Irene Davidson, Reform’s candidate for the Blundellsands ward in the upcoming by election in Liverpool.

    https://bsky.app/profile/irritatedllama.bsky.social/post/3lrfmw4mrvk2n

    Hmmm. I wonder where she got that idea?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,531
    Scott_xP said:

    Ummm, no

    @irritatedllama.bsky.social‬

    Irene Davidson, Reform’s candidate for the Blundellsands ward in the upcoming by election in Liverpool.

    https://bsky.app/profile/irritatedllama.bsky.social/post/3lrfmw4mrvk2n

    Where the fuck are the Fukkers finding these fuckers?

    I think they are trapping potential candidates by propping up a big cardboard box with a pack of cigs with a scratchcard taped to it as bait.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,834
    Dura_Ace said:

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    Usually of course, because the poor b****rs can't answer back.
    ~80% of all aviation mishaps are caused by the operating crew, so it's a pretty safe bet.
    General aviation? I can imagine so. Civil aviation? I'd like to see the figures.

    Remember how Boeing and others tried to blame the pilots for the 737 Max crashes. And yes, the pilots made mistakes. But the major causal factors were down to Boeing.

    Even if the pilots make mistakes, it becomes critically important to understand *why* they made those mistakes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    I’m no starmer fan but Kemi a better PM 😱
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,520
    Has Reeves demanded an emergency budget yet for this dramatic fall in GDP?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,314
    Scott_xP said:

    Ummm, no

    @irritatedllama.bsky.social‬

    Irene Davidson, Reform’s candidate for the Blundellsands ward in the upcoming by election in Liverpool.

    https://bsky.app/profile/irritatedllama.bsky.social/post/3lrfmw4mrvk2n

    Yes, give everybody their own unique tattooed number and call it The Final Solution to the boat people question.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,834

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    The RAT may have been down…
    Does that indicate there might have been an engine or electrical failure?

    (For other readers, the RAT is a small turbine/generator that can be deployed to generate electrical power from the airflow over the fuselage.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I don't think there is an explicit rule about oncoming cyclists - I've looked this up before. But I think the general guidance given by the Code would cover it anyway.

    This is a regular issue for me on one particular street with parked cars. I just take primary position to prevent any squeezing from either direction, and pull in where possible to let oncoming cars pass.
    I had three or four this morning oncoming that were, although around 10MPH, less than 1 metre. I didn’t feel unsafe more wary.
    Most drivers will slow to a crawl or stop if there's that little space - curious that the behaviour is different for oncoming versus an overtake. Because they can see your face, acknowledge you as a fellow human being?
    You’re right. Most do. They stop and let me pass usually but this morning was different
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,988

    Dura_Ace said:

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    Usually of course, because the poor b****rs can't answer back.
    ~80% of all aviation mishaps are caused by the operating crew, so it's a pretty safe bet.
    General aviation? I can imagine so. Civil aviation? I'd like to see the figures.

    Remember how Boeing and others tried to blame the pilots for the 737 Max crashes. And yes, the pilots made mistakes. But the major causal factors were down to Boeing.

    Even if the pilots make mistakes, it becomes critically important to understand *why* they made those mistakes.
    I thought that was why, when I was in the NHS, we were taught to look at civil aviation as the gold standard in 'why' when looking at disasters.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 128,081

    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    @Mexicanpete just warned about that and I expected you to fall in the trap, which you have

    You cannot combine conservative and reform votes
    I never said you could but both the Conservatives and Reform are right of centre parties as I said, so my statement it 'would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015' stands
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    edited June 12

    Dura_Ace said:

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    Usually of course, because the poor b****rs can't answer back.
    ~80% of all aviation mishaps are caused by the operating crew, so it's a pretty safe bet.
    General aviation? I can imagine so. Civil aviation? I'd like to see the figures.

    Remember how Boeing and others tried to blame the pilots for the 737 Max crashes. And yes, the pilots made mistakes. But the major causal factors were down to Boeing.

    Even if the pilots make mistakes, it becomes critically important to understand *why* they made those mistakes.
    Wasn't there a United (or American) Airlines First Officer pulled off a flight for being several times over the drink driving limit?

    Mind you I am always relieved when I pull out the safety card and the aircraft code starts with an "A" . I am genuinely cheered.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    RobD said:

    Has Reeves demanded an emergency budget yet for this dramatic fall in GDP?

    If she was a Conservative Chancellor (or PB poster) she could always claim the initial figures always uptick in confirmed form.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,752
    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
    Thank you and also thank you @eabhal for your responses

    Last thing I want to do is start dobbing in my neighbours but I’m getting the right hunp over the lack of consideration. I’d rather they were aware than shook down for money
    I don't honestly get many problems, but I've been light on cycling (just a couple of times this year) whilst building my fitness back up. The one non-camera thing I do find makes a difference in my circumstances is my PassPixi, which does get noticed. But that can only be seen from behind. It says "I'm running Shrodinger's video camera, and you can't tell". I have not had hostility, but I take care to wave them through as soon as sensibly possible.

    You could play with a real or fake helmet cam which would be seen from the front.

    I think the other thing that does make a difference is assertiveness eg taking primary in pinch points and so on, enough in advance so they have time to react.

    Personally, I have recently (last 12 months) been more focused on being assertive on pedestrian priority at side road and roundabout entrances, and I think that one is getting through.

    Plan B is to become an anti-barrier activist and clear out all your local off road routes so you can go where they cannot get at you :smirk: mile .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,314
    Shocking cheating there by the Saffer
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,143
    carnforth said:

    "There were 169 Indian nationals, 53 British nationals, one Canadian national and seven Portuguese nationals on board."

    Edit: Any reason a British Indian would travel on an Indian passport? So maybe more than 53.

    In the past people would do it to avoid the visa charge but in the post OCI world it's extremely rare and the Indian government has been very tough on cracking down on it because India doesn't allow dual nationality.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,197
    Talk of an electrical failure.

    Hmm.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    The RAT may have been down…
    Does that indicate there might have been an engine or electrical failure?

    (For other readers, the RAT is a small turbine/generator that can be deployed to generate electrical power from the airflow over the fuselage.)
    It's a big old bird to lift from 600ft to safety if an engine fails.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,970
    edited June 12
    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
    Thank you and also thank you @eabhal for your responses

    Last thing I want to do is start dobbing in my neighbours but I’m getting the right hunp over the lack of consideration. I’d rather they were aware than shook down for money
    I don't honestly get many problems, but I've been light on cycling (just a couple of times this year) whilst building my fitness back up. The one non-camera thing I do find makes a difference in my circumstances is my PassPixi, which does get noticed. But that can only be seen from behind. It says "I'm running Shrodinger's video camera, and you can't tell". I have not had hostility, but I take care to wave them through as soon as sensibly possible.

    You could play with a real or fake helmet cam which would be seen from the front.

    I think the other thing that does make a difference is assertiveness eg taking primary in pinch points and so on, enough in advance so they have time to react.

    Personally, I have recently (last 12 months) been more focused on being assertive on pedestrian priority at side road and roundabout entrances, and I think that one is getting through.

    Plan B is to become an anti-barrier activist and clear out all your local off road routes so you can go where they cannot get at you :smirk: mile .
    PassPixi has completely transformed my cycling experience. Varia too, but that's very pricey and I don't use it in town.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,336
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Freshwater Strategy poll from City AM is now out on their website
    Ref 32 Con 21 Lab 21 LD 14 Green 8 SNP 2
    Starmer loses as best PM to Kemi by 4 and Farage by 7 and Kemi vs Farage is 38 v 40
    *subsamples klaxon and alert* some hilarity in Wales with Labour and Plaid trailing both Ref by miles (42%!) And tories lol. Labour on 13% in Scotland. Labour big lead with the youth but utterly gubbed with anyone out of nappies - doing best in London and East Mids, Tories lead in the SE, its the Reform show elsewhere

    53% Reform and Con with them then, would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015
    @Mexicanpete just warned about that and I expected you to fall in the trap, which you have

    You cannot combine conservative and reform votes
    I never said you could but both the Conservatives and Reform are right of centre parties as I said, so my statement it 'would be the highest voteshare for right of centre parties in the UK since the 50% for the Tories and UKIP in 2015' stands
    Not the highest poll though. Freshwater (who it seems have a very pro-right House effect) had Ref 28 Con 27 in April.

    Anyway, as others have said, there are reasons that Reform voters are not backing the Tories and vice versa; they are not two versions of the same thing.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,671
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Ummm, no

    @irritatedllama.bsky.social‬

    Irene Davidson, Reform’s candidate for the Blundellsands ward in the upcoming by election in Liverpool.

    https://bsky.app/profile/irritatedllama.bsky.social/post/3lrfmw4mrvk2n

    Where the fuck are the Fukkers finding these fuckers?

    I think they are trapping potential candidates by propping up a big cardboard box with a pack of cigs with a scratchcard taped to it as bait.
    Has a cracked screen on their mobile as well...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,119
    edited June 12

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    The RAT may have been down…
    Does that indicate there might have been an engine or electrical failure?

    (For other readers, the RAT is a small turbine/generator that can be deployed to generate electrical power from the airflow over the fuselage.)
    The famous incident when bird strikes knocked out both engines and Captain Sullenberger had to land his A320 on the Hudson River

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,932
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
    Thank you and also thank you @eabhal for your responses

    Last thing I want to do is start dobbing in my neighbours but I’m getting the right hunp over the lack of consideration. I’d rather they were aware than shook down for money
    I don't honestly get many problems, but I've been light on cycling (just a couple of times this year) whilst building my fitness back up. The one non-camera thing I do find makes a difference in my circumstances is my PassPixi, which does get noticed. But that can only be seen from behind. It says "I'm running Shrodinger's video camera, and you can't tell". I have not had hostility, but I take care to wave them through as soon as sensibly possible.

    You could play with a real or fake helmet cam which would be seen from the front.

    I think the other thing that does make a difference is assertiveness eg taking primary in pinch points and so on, enough in advance so they have time to react.

    Personally, I have recently (last 12 months) been more focused on being assertive on pedestrian priority at side road and roundabout entrances, and I think that one is getting through.

    Plan B is to become an anti-barrier activist and clear out all your local off road routes so you can go where they cannot get at you :smirk: mile .
    PassPixi has completely transformed my cycling experience. Varia too, but that's very pricey and I don't use it in town.
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    MattW said:

    Taz said:

    Eabhal said:

    A lot of the anti pensioners vitriol seems to stem from them sitting on equity. What on earth would be the point in working for 50 years, paying off a mortgage and then 'downsizing' to some soulless shoebox? And all to support 'young people' to work 50 years, pay off a mortgage and......
    People aren't battery hens.

    The most gorgeous home I've ever been in was a one bed flat in central Stockholm, owned by two pensioners. They'd sold their 4 bed family home when the kids left and owned a share in a lakeside cabin.

    The rest of their cash went into considerable volumes of alcohol and a fish-based diet. They cycled everywhere, despite having mobility problems, and gave us a deeply entertaining tour of the city before lending us the hut for the weekend.
    At least they didn’t waste their money.

    A question for you and @MattW

    I go out every morning for a cycle ride. Is it a close pass irrespective of the direction of the traffic or only if the traffic is in the same direction of travel as you ?
    I think the principle is clear - the motor should leave at least 1.5m (or 2m if >30mph), and if there is not space they should stop and wait under hierarchy of road users, unless the cyclist has crossed onto their side of the road when they should still stop for Duty of Care but the cyclist is probably a dolt.

    If it is between parked cars and there is not room then aiui they should stop if they need to straddle the centre point of the road. If in my car I am ostentatious about doing this. If on my cycle I would be assertive (ie centre of lane or stronger), but not to the point of taking too many chances (eg I would leave Audis, BMWs and van men alone usually). If it is a whole line of cars it is tricky.

    A stronger position means there's a possible escape to the left.

    But on this there are a few ambiguities. Eg there is some language (Rule 163) around passing cycles in the HWC as "overtake", and around horses it is "pass". The latter is more clearly both directions; the former (and the difference) is unhelpfully confusing. If you get into cam-reporting, there are also varying policies - Lancs just won't touch close passing reports for neforcement; others will do.

    The best way is Ashley Neal's slogan: "make it a non-event", which is planning ahead and slowing down or being very clear of your intention far enough in advance so that the car has time to react. That's about road position and body language, and even perhaps waving them through if you have time.

    I hope that's helpful. Ashley has a video on this question here (he has lots of others too), where he discusses with Travis & Sigrid (the cat) an experience in London. Not totally clear cut, but highlights the considerations well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDqn2ckgPVw

    But having said that, it is tempered as ever by "what happens if they don't stop".
    Thank you and also thank you @eabhal for your responses

    Last thing I want to do is start dobbing in my neighbours but I’m getting the right hunp over the lack of consideration. I’d rather they were aware than shook down for money
    I don't honestly get many problems, but I've been light on cycling (just a couple of times this year) whilst building my fitness back up. The one non-camera thing I do find makes a difference in my circumstances is my PassPixi, which does get noticed. But that can only be seen from behind. It says "I'm running Shrodinger's video camera, and you can't tell". I have not had hostility, but I take care to wave them through as soon as sensibly possible.

    You could play with a real or fake helmet cam which would be seen from the front.

    I think the other thing that does make a difference is assertiveness eg taking primary in pinch points and so on, enough in advance so they have time to react.

    Personally, I have recently (last 12 months) been more focused on being assertive on pedestrian priority at side road and roundabout entrances, and I think that one is getting through.

    Plan B is to become an anti-barrier activist and clear out all your local off road routes so you can go where they cannot get at you :smirk: mile .
    PassPixi has completely transformed my cycling experience. Varia too, but that's very pricey and I don't use it in town.
    I’m going out now to watch Joseph in the toon. But I’ll look up passpixi when I get back

    Thank u both
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,316
    edited June 12
    FF43 said:

    An aviation 'expert' on BBC News at 11.20 seemed rather keen to blame the pilots for the crash, citing a misconfiguration (landing gear down, no visible flaps). They did not discuss any other potential causes or factors that may have led to the crash, e.g. bird strike, mechanical failure, etc, etc.

    The aviation industry has a sad history of "blame the pilots...". I wish 'experts' did not get into the same habit...

    The RAT may have been down…
    Does that indicate there might have been an engine or electrical failure?

    (For other readers, the RAT is a small turbine/generator that can be deployed to generate electrical power from the airflow over the fuselage.)
    The famous incident when bird strikes knocked out both engines and Captain Sullenberger had to land his A320 on the Hudson River

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways_Flight_1549
    A mayday then radio silence today apparently.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,797
    I’m at the far northern tip of the far northern island of the far northern Faroes. Amid some of the highest sea cliffs in the world

    The Noom, my friends, The Noom


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    edited June 12
    Associated Press - "No survivors from the aircraft" :cry:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,542
    Leon said:

    I’m at the far northern tip of the far northern island of the far northern Faroes. Amid some of the highest sea cliffs in the world

    The Noom, my friends, The Noom


    Noom?

    Noom is a diet app:

    https://www.noom.com
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