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In office but not in power – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,506
edited June 4 in General
In office but not in power – politicalbetting.com

Britons tend to say Reform UK are doing the most to set the political agenda at presentReform UK: 33%Labour: 19%Conservatives: 3%Lib Dems: 2%Greens: 2%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,666
    First.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998
    Kemi's problem, as Andrew Neil suggested to Michael Gove the other day, before this header was even a twinkle in TSE's eye, is that everything Labour is currently ballsing up started under the Tories.

    Reform is NOTA and its appeal is that the major parties are as bad as each other.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998
    tlg86 said:

    First.

    ... but not first to read and comment on the header.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998

    Kemi's problem, as Andrew Neil suggested to Michael Gove the other day, before this header was even a twinkle in TSE's eye, is that everything Labour is currently ballsing up started under the Tories.

    Reform is NOTA and its appeal is that the major parties are as bad as each other.

    That Times Wireless interview of Gove by Andrew Neil:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnQQZEQoDB4
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    Lol, that's the law
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,096
    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    There's a clear opening for Reform's DOGE-style chainsaws. Of course, they'd not save money on the flag since they've already bought that, and the wages of the chap who raises and lowers flags on the South Bank are another sunk cost, and Elon doesn't charge by the tweet. So no actual savings.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    The medias coverage and narrative is what's setting the agenda. Now and always
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    It's ridiculous. It probably was 20 years ago, in certain places at certain times, but now it no longer is.

    Having arrived at the destination station, they've then kicked up the throttle, accelerated again, and whizzed straight through it and out the other side.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Nigel Farage is said to be already moving on from immigration and Brexit, because Reform already owns those issues, and is now talking about deindustrialisation (remind you of anyone?) and Net Zero.

    (Shopping calls; no time to dig up the links; sorry.)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506
    On topic, yes they are, but that's because they have an agenda where SKS does not.

    He's a tedious tactical triangulator, not a leader, and that's why he's always reacting to the initiatives of others, and giving ground.

    This also shows up in the international "deals" he makes.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998
    OT YouTube now has Premium Light (or Lite) which is advert-free except for music, or something, for £8 a month rather than £12 or £13. I've just signed up for the free trial.

    Also OT, according to TRiE, Netflix regards YouTube as its biggest competitor, not broadcasters or the other streamers.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,634
    edited June 4
    Of course, this survey pre-dates the full impact of BobbyJ's magnificent interventions that will surely have rendered the whole exercise utterly obsolete.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    And how we can protect them in their own homes.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e5wqq523ko

    Two teenagers have been locked up for a firework attack which led to the death of widower in his terraced home in east London.

    In the years leading up to the attack, Robert Price, 76, had been the target of a prolonged campaign of harassment and criminal damage, the Old Bailey was told.

    Nathan Otitodilchukwu, 18, and a 16-year-old who cannot be named due to his age threatened to "torch" the pensioner before punching a hole in his window and pushing a firework into his home on Oval Road North, Dagenham, last July.

    The pair had admitted manslaughter and were sentenced on Monday by Judge Rebecca Trowler KC.

    Otitodilchukwu was jailed for six years and the youth was handed a custodial sentence of two years and eight months.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,161
    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,350
    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    So if you manage to do it without any Woke bullshit, then you're not being made to actually DO any Woke bullshit yourself, so what's the problem? If you're not doing Woke bullshit, why are you so upset about it?

    Is it just having to hear about events, like gay tapestries, that might be of interest to others but you're not actually compelled to do yourself? Just as I have to hear about Lent, and Easter, and Christmas and all that other religious bullshit but don't have to actually do any of it myself.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,745

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    Maybe you do, plenty of managers hire their mates from the last place they worked, or contacts from LinkedIn, rather than looking for the best person for the job
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,601
    edited June 4

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    It is not sustainable

    In her speech today she said the government will increase defence spending to 2.5% by 2027 and work toward 3% in the next parliament

    On the 24th - 26th of this month Starmer will attend the NATO meeting and sign up to 3.5% by 2035 + 1.5% associated defence spending in infrastructure and sea ports

    Therefore 3.5% has to be found and without either tax rises including wealth taxes or cuts across the board then our defence and membership of NATO will be compromised

    Apparently Starmer wants to put us on a war footing but in so doing defence has to take priority and that means now and not some ambition into the middle of the next decade
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    *subsample Klaxon*
    Just had a trawl of MiCs tables as its quite interesting to see the three within 7% of each other, leaders in regions as follows (just for interest sake)
    Reform - Wales, East Mids, Yorks and Humber, North East, East England, South West
    Labour - Greater London, North West
    Tories - South East, West Midlands
    SNP - Scotland
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    It is not sustainable

    In her speech today she said the government will increase defence spending to 2.5% by 2027 and work toward 3% in the next parliament

    On the 24th - 26th of this month Starmer will attend the NATO meeting and sign up to 3.5% by 2035 + 1.5% associated defence spending in infrastructure and sea ports

    Therefore 3.5% has to be found and without either tax rises including wealth taxes or cuts across the board then our defence and membership of NATO will be compromised

    Apparently Starmer wants to put us on a war footing but in so doing defence has to take priority and that means now and not some ambition into the middle of the next decade
    The UK spends £64.6 bn per annum on defence and £165.9 bn per annum on pensions and other pensioner benefits.

    They could announce that pensions would be going up by 1% per annum in nominal terms (just as happened to many worker's wages in the past decade) with the money saved going into defence, from now until we hit the 3.5% figure.

    No tax rises necessary. Taxes are already high, increasing them further is a choice not a necessity.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 65,601

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    Remarkable now the economy is the best in the G7, Reeves confirmed in her speech the WFP will be restored for this year for most pensioners

    This is not governing, just idiotic politics
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,678
    edited June 4

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    She raised the /wrong/ NI & actively damaged the economy because she had promised not to raise the one people see on their pay slips.

    But until the electorate understand that politicians playing chicken with each other in GE campaigns over taxation & pensions does not lead to good outcomes for any of us this kind of bullshit is inevitable unfortunately.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,509



    Therefore 3.5% has to be found and without either tax rises including wealth taxes or cuts across the board then our defence and membership of NATO will be compromised

    Of it doesn't have to be found. SKS will make the right noises, then it'll be finessed away and the UK will be far from the only country playing that game. What are NATO going to do about it? Send the lads from Can't Pay, We'll Take It Away round to No. 10?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    Phil said:

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    She raised the /wrong/ NI & actively damaged the economy because she had promised not to raise the one people see on their pay slips.

    But until the electorate understand that politicians playing chicken with each other in GE campaigns over taxation & pensions does not lead to good outcomes for any of us this kind of bullshit is inevitable unfortunately.
    There is no right NI to raise.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554
    FF43 said:

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    As an employee of an organisation that takes its DEI obligations seriously, occasionally you speculate so and so got the role because it helps balance the demographic profile. They are entirely qualified for the job but as they are a rare example of an identifiable social group they have a better chance than the over-represented groups in getting the role. But if you don't accept that these social groups being under-represented is the root cause of the problem you're not going to understand why they are getting the special treatment.
    How do you determine the correct level of representation?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936
    Farage is setting the agenda in terms of immigration and cutting spending via DOGE etc. Reform backers in the media are also making news eg Matt Goodwin's report today that white British people will be a minority in the UK in 50 years time.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/

    However his statements aren't necessarily always positive for his party. For instance his backing scrapping the 2 child benefit cap for those on UC has seen Reform down 3% to 28% with the Conservatives up 2% to 21% on today's MoreinCommon poll as some Thatcherites shift back to the Tories after Kemi backed keeping the cap
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1930157861297946958
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,222

    OT YouTube now has Premium Light (or Lite) which is advert-free except for music, or something, for £8 a month rather than £12 or £13. I've just signed up for the free trial.

    Also OT, according to TRiE, Netflix regards YouTube as its biggest competitor, not broadcasters or the other streamers.

    Any idea how to downgrade from Youtube Premium? I can't see the option on my account...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,387
    "Roger Cooper, British journalist jailed for five years in Iran whose sense of mischief kept him sane

    His captors insisted he give them a rundown of British intelligence. To oblige he invented a cast based on Evelyn Waugh characters

    Telegraph Obituaries"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/obituaries/2025/06/03/roger-cooper-british-journalist-jailed-iran-tehran-spy/
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,694
    FPT:
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Government announcing funding for a load of public transport projects that were previously announced by Rishi Sunak with no intention of funding them.

    If she also announces a cut in the carbon capture boondoggle, I might actually start to reassess her.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/04/rachel-reeves-unveils-15bn-for-trams-trains-and-buses-outside-london
    ..Rachel Reeves is announcing £15bn for trams, trains and buses outside London as she launches a charm offensive to persuade fractious Labour MPs that her spending review will not be a return to austerity.

    The chancellor has begun meeting groups of backbenchers to argue that the money, part of a £113bn investment in capital projects over the rest of the parliament including transport, homes and energy, would only have happened under Labour.

    Just three Whitehall departments are still to agree their multi-year budgets with the Treasury before the spending review, the Guardian understands, with the home secretary, Yvette Cooper; the energy secretary, Ed Miliband; and the housing secretary, Angela Rayner, holding out...
    That £15bn for trains and trams outside London looks very positive. A big chunk of it needs to be trams and light rail.

    But there will be a few battles around groups such as Transport 2000 (whatever they are called now) trying to nick multiuser rail-trails back). We had an attempted mugging to grab the Monsal Trail in Derbyshire for a proposed railway, despite it being used by 300-600k people per annum. When I last heard it had been fought off, but I am not fully up to date - they will be back.

    Rail Trails of course being ideal accessible (and safe family cycling) trails, like towpaths.

    I can see RefUK Councils (and TBH others) falling for that one - oooh, big exciting machines - if they get around to doing any projects, and not being especially good at listening to different stakeholders. They like easy answers.

    That's why he need the whole damn lot of Local Authority managed trails made into Public Rights of Way by statute. I have not won that one yet !
    We have a similar upcoming battle in Edinburgh. The principle should always to put trams on roads, not paths, if the intention is to reduce car use. Learn the lesson from Dublin - they don't work as well if hidden away down an embankment.

    For railways, I think it's harder to make that argument. 600,000 is a lot of people though, so you'd hope that alternative provision is put in place - the Australians manage to do this with new infrastructure, and so did HS2.
    The trams work better on roads because that is where people are is an interesting argument. Nottingham has in general done this really well imo, but they already had "green corridors" in a number of places in the early 20c or 19C - I'm not sure of reasons why.

    It's in the Peak National Park, which should help - so I think the Local Planning authority is the Peak Park itself.

    It's one question around us till need to be developing decent networks of separated mobility tracks in a country with chaotic transport policy. Defending an existing network would be easier, but here we are.

    And Equal Rights to transport services (including accessible trails) are presumably on the Farage list of things to destroy by killing the Equalities Act 2010. I'm not sure if they are on the DOLGE list of "inefficiencies".
    Many locals do not actually like the Monsal Trail - or at least bits that are not *their* bit. The area is already very busy in summer, with sometimes massive traffic queues. The trail has just acted as a draw for more people to come, increasing the traffic problems.

    Imagine if there was a nice railway line that could bring people up into the very heart of the Peak District from Sheffield, Manchester, or even London, as the Hope Valley line does for the area further north?
    (I wasn't quite a local, even when I lived in Derbyshire.)

    I think spending money on grabbing one of the few decent, used things, to destroy it, is perhaps a mistake.

    I would argue the other way - imagine if there was an entire network of accessible paths - everywhere, with no barriers keeping disabled and other people out, rather than just the Monsal Trail.

    Then there would be more visitors, great for the economy, and they would spread out more. Done reasonably, including access routes etc, and traffic would fall.

    Being a little more ambitious, imagine if that were everywhere - mobility tracks, ideally separated, as alternatives to every A and B road in the country. That's one element of what I want to see, and the road length in England is only 80k miles for A and B roads.

    One practical idea I do wonder about is if some of these proposals could use narrow gauge.
    It is not one of the "few decent, used things". Nearby are two other, very long, active travel routes along disused railways - the Tissington Trail and the High Peak Trail. The entire area is crisscrossed with routes, including the Pennine Bridleway. The area has many routes for cyclists and walkers.

    Also, unless they've opened the extension towards Matlock, the trail starts in the middle of nowhere and ends even more in the middle of nowhere. It is not like an active travel route in a city, used by commuters: it is a *destination*. People travel - by car - to use it.

    It makes the transport situation far worse, not better.

    No, narrow gauge would be f-all use. As you well know for cyclists, we need *networks*, not disjointed sections.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,350

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    Hiring the best candidate = "divisive woke bullshit".

    Problem with "I do hire the best candidate" when you're looking at this at an organisational rather than individual manager / team level is that its very clear that the best candidates are very heavily white men.

    I assume that "divisive woke bullshit" also includes white women, who find themselves almost entirely excluded from CEO positions - presumably because they're inferior to the men. Or women in engineering. Or non-whites in police forces in heavily diverse cities. Or a whole host of examples.

    As I said, the pushback against "divisive woke bullshit" is because people refuse to see there is a problem with hiring people like themselves at every opportunity. I assume that "divisive woke bullshit" also covers things like personality profiling where you assess candidates for "fit" into a team. Too many people thinking the same was in an organisation can be disastrous, hence the "woke bullshit".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    The minimum wage for a full time worker working 40 hours a week is now £25,396 and the lowest earners don't pay tax and those on UC have to be looking for work or they get sanctioned
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,222
    carnforth said:

    OT YouTube now has Premium Light (or Lite) which is advert-free except for music, or something, for £8 a month rather than £12 or £13. I've just signed up for the free trial.

    Also OT, according to TRiE, Netflix regards YouTube as its biggest competitor, not broadcasters or the other streamers.

    Any idea how to downgrade from Youtube Premium? I can't see the option on my account...
    Never mind. They were hiding it. Done, thanks.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,387
    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,224
    Phil said:

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    She raised the /wrong/ NI & actively damaged the economy because she had promised not to raise the one people see on their pay slips.

    But until the electorate understand that politicians playing chicken with each other in GE campaigns over taxation & pensions does not lead to good outcomes for any of us this kind of bullshit is inevitable unfortunately.
    She shouldn’t have raised Ni at all.

    It should have been 3p on the 20p income tax band - clearly reversing the Ni cut.


    Now I suspect the employer Ni changes would have been needed this year but by being clever last year she’s backed herself into a corner and mess of her own creation
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,180
    edited June 4
    HYUFD said:

    Farage is setting the agenda in terms of immigration and cutting spending via DOGE etc. Reform backers in the media are also making news eg Matt Goodwin's report today that white British people will be a minority in the UK in 50 years time.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/

    However his statements aren't necessarily always positive for his party. For instance his backing scrapping the 2 child benefit cap for those on UC has seen Reform down 3% to 28% with the Conservatives up 2% to 21% on today's MoreinCommon poll as some Thatcherites shift back to the Tories after Kemi backed keeping the cap
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1930157861297946958

    I think today's uptick in the Tory share may be down to Jenrick.
    He knows how to do retail politics.
    Jenrick and Farage are both good at it.
    I don't like Jenrick (painted over murals) but I suspect he is the next Tory leader.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    HYUFD said:

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    The minimum wage for a full time worker working 40 hours a week is now £25,396 and the lowest earners don't pay tax and those on UC have to be looking for work or they get sanctioned
    40 hours a week is more than 9-5 since minimum wage workers don't generally get paid for breaks.

    And for people on UC working 16 hours a week, which is a great many people, HMRC will take about 100% of their earnings they work over 16 so why the hell do you expect people to work 40 hours instead of 16 in that scenario? People are rational.

    Its the Laffer Curve in action. Why work more hours if you won't get paid any money for it?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 30,998
    edited June 4
    deleted
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,339

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    What a shambles, a month of absolute crap and now our spies are all LGBTQ+. No wonder the world guffaws at the state of the UK.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    eek said:

    Phil said:

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    She raised the /wrong/ NI & actively damaged the economy because she had promised not to raise the one people see on their pay slips.

    But until the electorate understand that politicians playing chicken with each other in GE campaigns over taxation & pensions does not lead to good outcomes for any of us this kind of bullshit is inevitable unfortunately.
    She shouldn’t have raised Ni at all.

    It should have been 3p on the 20p income tax band - clearly reversing the Ni cut.


    Now I suspect the employer Ni changes would have been needed this year but by being clever last year she’s backed herself into a corner and mess of her own creation
    Except you know full well the "NI cut" was already a fully funded tax rise by freezing the tax thresholds.

    And don't give that nonsense about "no quid pro quo" as the threshold freeze happened first as its not true, the freeze was due to expire and got extended as an explicit quid pro quo for the NI changes which were a tax rise.

    So why still pretend there was a cut that needs to be reversed?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506
    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    There's no such thing as discrimination that is positive.

    It creates unfairness and injustice to individuals however it's labelled.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936
    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,180

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage is setting the agenda in terms of immigration and cutting spending via DOGE etc. Reform backers in the media are also making news eg Matt Goodwin's report today that white British people will be a minority in the UK in 50 years time.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/

    However his statements aren't necessarily always positive for his party. For instance his backing scrapping the 2 child benefit cap for those on UC has seen Reform down 3% to 28% with the Conservatives up 2% to 21% on today's MoreinCommon poll as some Thatcherites shift back to the Tories after Kemi backed keeping the cap
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1930157861297946958

    I think today's uptick in the Tory share may be down to Jenrick.
    He knows how to do retail politics.
    Jenrick and Farage are both good at it.
    I don't like Jenrick (painted over murals) but I suspect he is the next Tory leader.
    Could equally be reversion to mean. MiC have generally been better for Tories- they were 21% with them a fortnight ago too. If they come off their 16% bottom with Find Out Now and Techne tomorrow and Friday it might then be evidence of a Jenrick effect.
    I agree that he's next leader though and his skills at retail politics
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506
    Barnesian said:

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
    It's partly the sheer narcissism of it and that one is expected to cheer it on pain of being accused of being a bigot.

    A bloke (and it was a bloke) turned up on the call today dressed as a women and calling himself "Gemma". Whilst speaking in a deep gravelly voice and with an Adam's apple the size of a shuttlecock. He is apparently the new HR coordinator for this project.

    I mean, yes, trans and identify as what you want and all that, but I find it all deeply weird.

    Of course, I will now have to watch pronouns and all that jazz whenever- hopefully rarely - I have to deal with him as I'm almost guaranteed to get that wrong, because he's a bloke in drag.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,224

    eek said:

    Phil said:

    Reeves needs to be sacked. "No income tax, NI and VAT rises" is f*****' stupid.

    Indeed, we should be cutting/abolishing NI and she raised it despite promising not to, she should be sacked for that.
    She raised the /wrong/ NI & actively damaged the economy because she had promised not to raise the one people see on their pay slips.

    But until the electorate understand that politicians playing chicken with each other in GE campaigns over taxation & pensions does not lead to good outcomes for any of us this kind of bullshit is inevitable unfortunately.
    She shouldn’t have raised Ni at all.

    It should have been 3p on the 20p income tax band - clearly reversing the Ni cut.


    Now I suspect the employer Ni changes would have been needed this year but by being clever last year she’s backed herself into a corner and mess of her own creation
    Except you know full well the "NI cut" was already a fully funded tax rise by freezing the tax thresholds.

    And don't give that nonsense about "no quid pro quo" as the threshold freeze happened first as its not true, the freeze was due to expire and got extended as an explicit quid pro quo for the NI changes which were a tax rise.

    So why still pretend there was a cut that needs to be reversed?
    I’m going to have to go back and sanity check things as the initial freeze on tax bands was November 2022.

    And I’ve 3 things more important to handle before investigating exactly how right / wrong we are
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,350
    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    Positive discrimination? I agree. That way you are not hiring the best people.

    At the same time we have had real issues with deeply entrenched racism in the police. Of racist white men being the bulk of the police force. You can't just keep hiring racists to beat up black people whilst claiming that not doing "creates more problems than it solves".

    That police force called out for trying to recruit non-whites. At a surface level I agree that it's a bad look. But when its a service like the police which needs to be seen to be race neutral, what else do we do? Attack "divisive woke bullshit" like the idea of not having only racist white men policing black and asian populations? Because that's what we've had.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,573
    edited June 4

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    There's a clear opening for Reform's DOGE-style chainsaws. Of course, they'd not save money on the flag since they've already bought that, and the wages of the chap who raises and lowers flags on the South Bank are another sunk cost, and Elon doesn't charge by the tweet. So no actual savings.
    Perhaps MI6 could reconsider their entire social media strategy - maybe naively I thought spies were meant to be inconspicuous.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,180

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage is setting the agenda in terms of immigration and cutting spending via DOGE etc. Reform backers in the media are also making news eg Matt Goodwin's report today that white British people will be a minority in the UK in 50 years time.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/

    However his statements aren't necessarily always positive for his party. For instance his backing scrapping the 2 child benefit cap for those on UC has seen Reform down 3% to 28% with the Conservatives up 2% to 21% on today's MoreinCommon poll as some Thatcherites shift back to the Tories after Kemi backed keeping the cap
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1930157861297946958

    I think today's uptick in the Tory share may be down to Jenrick.
    He knows how to do retail politics.
    Jenrick and Farage are both good at it.
    I don't like Jenrick (painted over murals) but I suspect he is the next Tory leader.
    Could equally be reversion to mean. MiC have generally been better for Tories- they were 21% with them a fortnight ago too. If they come off their 16% bottom with Find Out Now and Techne tomorrow and Friday it might then be evidence of a Jenrick effect.
    I agree that he's next leader though and his skills at retail politics
    Yes the MiC Tory uptick is within MOE so we shouldn't over analyse it.
    As you say, the next few polls will be interesting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 31,573
    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    Good opportunity to make it a wedge issue, get rid of him and raise the IQ of the PCP somewhat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    Lol, that's the law
    What, flegs ?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    edited June 4
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Farage is setting the agenda in terms of immigration and cutting spending via DOGE etc. Reform backers in the media are also making news eg Matt Goodwin's report today that white British people will be a minority in the UK in 50 years time.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/06/03/white-british-minority-in-40-years-report-claims/

    However his statements aren't necessarily always positive for his party. For instance his backing scrapping the 2 child benefit cap for those on UC has seen Reform down 3% to 28% with the Conservatives up 2% to 21% on today's MoreinCommon poll as some Thatcherites shift back to the Tories after Kemi backed keeping the cap
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1930157861297946958

    I think today's uptick in the Tory share may be down to Jenrick.
    He knows how to do retail politics.
    Jenrick and Farage are both good at it.
    I don't like Jenrick (painted over murals) but I suspect he is the next Tory leader.
    Could equally be reversion to mean. MiC have generally been better for Tories- they were 21% with them a fortnight ago too. If they come off their 16% bottom with Find Out Now and Techne tomorrow and Friday it might then be evidence of a Jenrick effect.
    I agree that he's next leader though and his skills at retail politics
    Yes the MiC Tory uptick is within MOE so we shouldn't over analyse it.
    As you say, the next few polls will be interesting.
    Yes, both FoN and Techne are interesting for different reasons
    FoN have been essentially static for 3 weeks for everyone so any sudden movement of more than a point will be interesting
    Techne have a longstanding habit of very slow but ongoing change - parties tend to drop a point a week over, say, 4 weeks or vice versa. The Tories are currently in a 'drop a point a week' pattern with them
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,899

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    There's a clear opening for Reform's DOGE-style chainsaws. Of course, they'd not save money on the flag since they've already bought that, and the wages of the chap who raises and lowers flags on the South Bank are another sunk cost, and Elon doesn't charge by the tweet. So no actual savings.
    Perhaps MI6 could reconsider their entire social media strategy - maybe naively I thought spies were meant to be inconspicuous.
    “‘Retired officers of the Indian Army,' …. 'can't possibly understand the thought processes of a Burgess or a Maclean. They won't even know such people exist - let alone be in a position to frequent their cliques and get to know their friends and their secrets. Once Burgess and Maclean went to Russia, the only way to make contact with them again and, perhaps when they got tired of Russia, turn them into double agents against the Russians, would have been to send their closest friends to Moscow and Prague and Budapest with orders to wait until one of these chaps crept out of the masonry and made contact. And one of them, probably Burgess, would have been driven to make contact by his loneliness and by his ache to tell his story to someone. But they certainly wouldn't take the risk of revealing themselves to some man with a trench-coat and a cavalry moustache and a beta minus mind.'”
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,128

    Barnesian said:

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
    It's partly the sheer narcissism of it and that one is expected to cheer it on pain of being accused of being a bigot.

    A bloke (and it was a bloke) turned up on the call today dressed as a women and calling himself "Gemma". Whilst speaking in a deep gravelly voice and with an Adam's apple the size of a shuttlecock. He is apparently the new HR coordinator for this project.

    I mean, yes, trans and identify as what you want and all that, but I find it all deeply weird.

    Of course, I will now have to watch pronouns and all that jazz whenever- hopefully rarely - I have to deal with him as I'm almost guaranteed to get that wrong, because he's a bloke in drag.
    Are they looking to make cuts to the workforce?
    That is a genius move, several people on final warnings before you can say "respect in the workplace".
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    Nigelb said:

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    Lol, that's the law
    What, flegs ?
    No, your sexual orientation being no bar to working and thriving wherever
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,808
    edited June 4
    malcolmg said:

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    What a shambles, a month of absolute crap and now our spies are all LGBTQ+. No wonder the world guffaws at the state of the UK.
    Tbf in the days of Burgess and Blunt there was quite a bit of the G part of LGBTQ going on with our spies. Unfortunately several of them were the USSR's spies as well.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,564
    All public transport in Luxembourg is free. Everything. Trains and trams and buses. All super clean and efficient

    So it is possible to have nice things
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,899

    malcolmg said:

    Just on another call. Pride Month again.

    Jesus.

    Do you work for MI6?

    https://x.com/ChiefMI6/status/1929795380696305900

    To mark Pride month, and to stand in solidarity with our LGBTQ+ colleagues, #MI6 is proudly flying the Pride flag from Vauxhall Cross, alongside the Union Flag, for the whole month of June. Your sexual orientation is no bar to you working and thriving at MI6 #Pride2025
    What a shambles, a month of absolute crap and now our spies are all LGBTQ+. No wonder the world guffaws at the state of the UK.
    Tbf in the days of Burgess and Blunt there was quite a bit of the G part of LGBTQ going on with our spies. Unfortunately several of them were the USSR's spies as well.
    See my quote above…
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 314
    Leon said:

    All public transport in Luxembourg is free. Everything. Trains and trams and buses. All super clean and efficient

    So it is possible to have nice things

    In parasitical tax havens?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,128
    Leon said:

    All public transport in Luxembourg is free. Everything. Trains and trams and buses. All super clean and efficient

    So it is possible to have nice things

    And no fare-dodging!! There's your solution for Bobby J!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 61,564

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    And how we can protect them in their own homes.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e5wqq523ko

    Two teenagers have been locked up for a firework attack which led to the death of widower in his terraced home in east London.

    In the years leading up to the attack, Robert Price, 76, had been the target of a prolonged campaign of harassment and criminal damage, the Old Bailey was told.

    Nathan Otitodilchukwu, 18, and a 16-year-old who cannot be named due to his age threatened to "torch" the pensioner before punching a hole in his window and pushing a firework into his home on Oval Road North, Dagenham, last July.

    The pair had admitted manslaughter and were sentenced on Monday by Judge Rebecca Trowler KC.

    Otitodilchukwu was jailed for six years and the youth was handed a custodial sentence of two years and eight months.
    Is that the Yorkshire Otitodilchukwus? Don’t they ride with the Quorn?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482
    edited June 4

    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    There's no such thing as discrimination that is positive.

    It creates unfairness and injustice to individuals however it's labelled.
    Just wrong. Positive discrimination has been very successful over the last 20 years in getting more women into law, medicine, engineering and construction, for example.

    Politics also.
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 314
    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    These are current Tory voters? 60% think Boris would be better? I suppose that gives the lie to the idea that all the daftest Tory supporters have gone off to Reform and they now retain a core of 'sensibles'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,346
    edited June 4
    Leon said:

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    And how we can protect them in their own homes.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e5wqq523ko

    Two teenagers have been locked up for a firework attack which led to the death of widower in his terraced home in east London.

    In the years leading up to the attack, Robert Price, 76, had been the target of a prolonged campaign of harassment and criminal damage, the Old Bailey was told.

    Nathan Otitodilchukwu, 18, and a 16-year-old who cannot be named due to his age threatened to "torch" the pensioner before punching a hole in his window and pushing a firework into his home on Oval Road North, Dagenham, last July.

    The pair had admitted manslaughter and were sentenced on Monday by Judge Rebecca Trowler KC.

    Otitodilchukwu was jailed for six years and the youth was handed a custodial sentence of two years and eight months.
    Is that the Yorkshire Otitodilchukwus? Don’t they ride with the Quorn?
    Here's Nathan Otitodilchukwu and two friends throwing a firework through Robert Price's window in Dagenham, east London. Mr Price died in the fire they caused.
    https://x.com/CourtNewsUK/status/1929818815753343381

    76 year old Mr Price was in the early stages of dementia. He had been harassed so badly by youths in Dagenham that the local council had made the decision to board up his downstairs window.
    https://x.com/MariaDodds44472/status/1930200549976051889
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,350
    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    I have a totally anonymous Twitter account, where I follow no one, no one follows me, I never search something, I never like or comment on anything, and I never open up a post.

    I do this purely so I can see what Twitter’s algorithm is sending to a viewer that it knows nothing about.

    Tonight, I am noticing a CLEAR shift in the algorithm.

    Post after post trashing Republicans for the Big Beautiful Bill.

    And post after post praising Ukraine’s military efforts.

    This is unlike anything I have ever seen before.

    The algorithm is usually filled with Charlie Kirk, various XRP scams, and some pro Trump AI slop.

    None of that tonight.

    Very interesting.

    Elon’s definitely put his hand on the scale.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1930119542111391796
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 314

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able? Without an energy crisis or crippling our economy? That's the debate.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,350

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able? Without an energy crisis or crippling our economy? That's the debate.
    Politically it's a disaster. Rename it, reposition it as Energy Freedom or something and watch the people who hate it now backing it because we're sticking it to the foreigners or something.

    "Would you like your house to be warmer and your bills to be lower". No, that's divisive woke nonsense
    "Would you like to tell Putin to sod off and make a load of money for Britain which makes your bills lower." Yeah

    The genius of the alt-right is that they are persuading people sat in cold houses that cutting their energy bills will cost them money.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,341

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    One benefit of the move to phasing out fossil fuels is of course that gaslighting will become increasingly difficult :wink:

    (the etymology of the term is interesting - had the play/film been later we might talk about dimmerswitching or similar!)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    Nigelb said:

    I have a totally anonymous Twitter account, where I follow no one, no one follows me, I never search something, I never like or comment on anything, and I never open up a post.

    I do this purely so I can see what Twitter’s algorithm is sending to a viewer that it knows nothing about.

    Tonight, I am noticing a CLEAR shift in the algorithm.

    Post after post trashing Republicans for the Big Beautiful Bill.

    And post after post praising Ukraine’s military efforts.

    This is unlike anything I have ever seen before.

    The algorithm is usually filled with Charlie Kirk, various XRP scams, and some pro Trump AI slop.

    None of that tonight.

    Very interesting.

    Elon’s definitely put his hand on the scale.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1930119542111391796

    Or taken his hand off the scale.
  • .

    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    Positive discrimination? I agree. That way you are not hiring the best people.

    At the same time we have had real issues with deeply entrenched racism in the police. Of racist white men being the bulk of the police force. You can't just keep hiring racists to beat up black people whilst claiming that not doing "creates more problems than it solves".

    That police force called out for trying to recruit non-whites. At a surface level I agree that it's a bad look. But when its a service like the police which needs to be seen to be race neutral, what else do we do? Attack "divisive woke bullshit" like the idea of not having only racist white men policing black and asian populations? Because that's what we've had.
    We also need to be realistic and let pragmatism take over. There are some physical tasks that women are always going to struggle at during high stress moments. You can find any number of videos on YouTube of female police officers trying and failing to break down doors with breaking in tools, usually with a big burly male officer watching them.
    Breaking in doors takes skill( hit the damn thing in the right place!) and the kit is very heavy, and you'll soon get tired if you mess up the first couple of goes.
    What's wrong with letting the male copper do what he's probably better at than the female copper on that raid, rather than watch the female officer get tired and embarrassed?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    These are current Tory voters? 60% think Boris would be better? I suppose that gives the lie to the idea that all the daftest Tory supporters have gone off to Reform and they now retain a core of 'sensibles'.
    Tory Party members have always made the Tory politicians look like the sensible ones
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,631
    How long before the israelis destroy Greta's 'Freedom Flotilla'?.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/greta-thunberg-aboard-gaza-flotilla-doing-nothing-not-option

  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    Roger said:

    How long before the israelis destroy Greta's 'Freedom Flotilla'?.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/greta-thunberg-aboard-gaza-flotilla-doing-nothing-not-option

    Ser Davos Seaworth is aboard and we know his ship record
  • Roger said:

    How long before the israelis destroy Greta's 'Freedom Flotilla'?.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/greta-thunberg-aboard-gaza-flotilla-doing-nothing-not-option

    I like Greta. I like her intensity and passion.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,096
    Leon said:

    Perhaps it's the other way round. Perhaps the perception is that Nigel is setting the agenda, but that's only because immigration is the talking point of the moment and Nigel is heavily associated with that. When the talking point moves on - as such things tend to - Nigel's perceived influence may wane.

    Demographic change isn't a just talking point but the most important political fact about Britain in 2025 and beyond.
    Yes, the ageing population and how we can support them.

    Axing the Triple Lock and ensuring work pays as well as benefits do would be a good start.
    And how we can protect them in their own homes.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3e5wqq523ko

    Two teenagers have been locked up for a firework attack which led to the death of widower in his terraced home in east London.

    In the years leading up to the attack, Robert Price, 76, had been the target of a prolonged campaign of harassment and criminal damage, the Old Bailey was told.

    Nathan Otitodilchukwu, 18, and a 16-year-old who cannot be named due to his age threatened to "torch" the pensioner before punching a hole in his window and pushing a firework into his home on Oval Road North, Dagenham, last July.

    The pair had admitted manslaughter and were sentenced on Monday by Judge Rebecca Trowler KC.

    Otitodilchukwu was jailed for six years and the youth was handed a custodial sentence of two years and eight months.
    Is that the Yorkshire Otitodilchukwus? Don’t they ride with the Quorn?
    I suspect this story only got an airing on PB because the perpetrators were non-Caucasian.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,180

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able? Without an energy crisis or crippling our economy? That's the debate.
    I think "net zero" is two distinct brands.

    Negative brand:
    Stop flying
    Stop eating meat
    Turn the heating down
    Etc
    Aimed at individuals to stop doing things

    Positive brand:
    Make cars more fuel efficient
    Insulate homes
    Move to renewable energy supply
    Etc
    Aimed at businesses, reducing cost of living
  • Frank_BoothFrank_Booth Posts: 314

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able? Without an energy crisis or crippling our economy? That's the debate.
    Politically it's a disaster. Rename it, reposition it as Energy Freedom or something and watch the people who hate it now backing it because we're sticking it to the foreigners or something.

    "Would you like your house to be warmer and your bills to be lower". No, that's divisive woke nonsense
    "Would you like to tell Putin to sod off and make a load of money for Britain which makes your bills lower." Yeah

    The genius of the alt-right is that they are persuading people sat in cold houses that cutting their energy bills will cost them money.
    If you think you can make people wealthier and cut their energy bills at the same time by de-carbonising the economy and relying on renewables then explain how it can be done. That doesn't fit with peoples' experiences at the moment. Blaming the branding or political actors is deflection.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,921

    Barnesian said:

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
    It's partly the sheer narcissism of it and that one is expected to cheer it on pain of being accused of being a bigot.

    A bloke (and it was a bloke) turned up on the call today dressed as a women and calling himself "Gemma". Whilst speaking in a deep gravelly voice and with an Adam's apple the size of a shuttlecock. He is apparently the new HR coordinator for this project.

    I mean, yes, trans and identify as what you want and all that, but I find it all deeply weird.

    Of course, I will now have to watch pronouns and all that jazz whenever- hopefully rarely - I have to deal with him as I'm almost guaranteed to get that wrong, because he's a bloke in drag.
    Just make sure that whenever you refer to that person you use 'Gemma'. Or Gemma's surname. Or both.

    (Note careful use of words and sentence construction!)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    There's no such thing as discrimination that is positive.

    It creates unfairness and injustice to individuals however it's labelled.
    Just wrong. Positive discrimination has been very successful over the last 20 years in getting more women into law, medicine, engineering and construction, for example.

    Politics also.
    You need to learn that just because someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they are "wrong". That's called dogma.

    For your information, positive discrimination is illegal in the UK; targets are not.

    Where did you do your legal training again?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506
    Dopermean said:

    Barnesian said:

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
    It's partly the sheer narcissism of it and that one is expected to cheer it on pain of being accused of being a bigot.

    A bloke (and it was a bloke) turned up on the call today dressed as a women and calling himself "Gemma". Whilst speaking in a deep gravelly voice and with an Adam's apple the size of a shuttlecock. He is apparently the new HR coordinator for this project.

    I mean, yes, trans and identify as what you want and all that, but I find it all deeply weird.

    Of course, I will now have to watch pronouns and all that jazz whenever- hopefully rarely - I have to deal with him as I'm almost guaranteed to get that wrong, because he's a bloke in drag.
    Are they looking to make cuts to the workforce?
    That is a genius move, several people on final warnings before you can say "respect in the workplace".
    I know.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    Barnesian said:

    FPT but the point needs to be made

    The pride pushback sits alongside the "DEI" pushback - in essence its why do we have to do these positive discrimination things?

    We do them because people hire people, and it's very easy for people to hire people like themselves. Which is how we end up with industries which are white and male.

    "Woke" people recognise this basic societal and sociological fact and look to do something about it. The anti-woke warriors also recognise it, but decry it because it means less jobs for people like them and more jobs for better qualified people who otherwise get missed because of their gender or race or sexuality or disability.

    Back when I was a recruiting manager in a mid-level commercial role I made the point of hiring the best candidate. That made my team stand out from the norm because I hired some people who didn't look like me. At one point I had two women join the team. Women traditionally did the admin roles or category marketing, yet here I was hiring brilliant candidates who bucked this "tradition".

    An anti-woke warrior manager asked why I "kept hiring young blonds". Knowing that he had a real problem with women getting promoted I just observed that it's because "I'm Hugh Heffner" as there can't be any other reason. He tried to put in a complaint with HR. And had his arse handed to him.

    So we celebrate pride and we focus on women in business leadership or engineering and we try to hire to ensure that we have some diversity in the police. Because the alternative is that everyone is white and everyone is male. And if people don't like that, they need to look in the mirror.

    That's funny. I achieve all that in my teams without any of the divisive Woke bullshit.

    It's called treating people as individuals.
    I can sympathise with your reaction to the OTT Pride events.
    I had the same reaction to all the religious stuff around the coronation.
    It is an irrational reaction. You can ignore it. It does no harm.
    But I know it is hard to control an emotional reaction. It just happens.
    It's partly the sheer narcissism of it and that one is expected to cheer it on pain of being accused of being a bigot.

    A bloke (and it was a bloke) turned up on the call today dressed as a women and calling himself "Gemma". Whilst speaking in a deep gravelly voice and with an Adam's apple the size of a shuttlecock. He is apparently the new HR coordinator for this project.

    I mean, yes, trans and identify as what you want and all that, but I find it all deeply weird.

    Of course, I will now have to watch pronouns and all that jazz whenever- hopefully rarely - I have to deal with him as I'm almost guaranteed to get that wrong, because he's a bloke in drag.
    Just make sure that whenever you refer to that person you use 'Gemma'. Or Gemma's surname. Or both.

    (Note careful use of words and sentence construction!)
    Thanks. Good advice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able?
    By 2050 ?
    Almost certainly.

    By 2035 - not really.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    Social media currently enjoying the videos of very bored people being forced to listen to Reeves drivel this morning.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    HYUFD said:

    Cleverly to make a speech backing net zero in direct challenge to Kemi 'Rather than backing his leader’s decision to drop support for the UK reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050, he will say that: “Conservative environmentalism doesn’t mean a choice between growth and sustainability.”

    It comes as a recent Survation poll found 22% of Tory and 19% of all voters say he would be a better leader than Badenoch (27% of Tory and 18% of all voters say the same of Jenrick and 60% of Tory and 33% of all voters say the same about Boris).
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/06/04/cleverly-direct-challenge-badenoch-net-zero-centre-farage/

    A very smart move by Mr "cos it's a shithole". "Net Zero" is a catastrophic piece of branding that needs evolving. But the goal of pursuing clean energy is the future, and there's a very obvious case to be made for the UK to become a net energy exporter of clean energy generated for buttons. And as we invest in this technology we can then export it.

    What is the future for oil and gas? Regardless of the political shenanigans we're on the downslope with north sea production. It is running down, it's just a question of how long we can extend the slope before it inevitably declines into irrelevance. Keep drilling - and I would issue licences based on oil & gas brought ashore and kept here. But that can't be the way forward, regardless of how many low-information voters can be gaslit.
    Net zero is not a catastrophic piece of branding. It is a clear policy. Is it do-able? Without an energy crisis or crippling our economy? That's the debate.
    Politically it's a disaster. Rename it, reposition it as Energy Freedom or something and watch the people who hate it now backing it because we're sticking it to the foreigners or something.

    "Would you like your house to be warmer and your bills to be lower". No, that's divisive woke nonsense
    "Would you like to tell Putin to sod off and make a load of money for Britain which makes your bills lower." Yeah

    The genius of the alt-right is that they are persuading people sat in cold houses that cutting their energy bills will cost them money.
    If you think you can make people wealthier and cut their energy bills at the same time by de-carbonising the economy and relying on renewables then explain how it can be done. That doesn't fit with peoples' experiences at the moment. Blaming the branding or political actors is deflection.
    By using better, more efficient, cleaner technologies.

    There's many examples of that already happening. The problem is the zealots on either side.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,631
    edited June 4

    Roger said:

    How long before the israelis destroy Greta's 'Freedom Flotilla'?.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/greta-thunberg-aboard-gaza-flotilla-doing-nothing-not-option

    I like Greta. I like her intensity and passion.
    I do too. It gives a perspective to those whose biggest concern is the wokeness of a Pride march
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482
    edited June 4

    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    There's no such thing as discrimination that is positive.

    It creates unfairness and injustice to individuals however it's labelled.
    Just wrong. Positive discrimination has been very successful over the last 20 years in getting more women into law, medicine, engineering and construction, for example.

    Politics also.
    You need to learn that just because someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they are "wrong". That's called dogma.

    For your information, positive discrimination is illegal in the UK; targets are not.

    Where did you do your legal training again?
    All women shortlists in politics is positive discrimination, let’s be honest. Illegal or not, I don’t do employment law so who knows.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    Roger said:

    How long before the israelis destroy Greta's 'Freedom Flotilla'?.

    https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/greta-thunberg-aboard-gaza-flotilla-doing-nothing-not-option

    I like Greta. I like her intensity and passion.
    I could comment on how this has nothing to do with climate change and, in general, how much of a dogmatic silly sausage she is - but I'm not going to. I am genuinely worried for her, though.

    She's not dealing with Brits or Swedes here, but the Israelis who've boarded such vessels in the past and killed activists (unfortunately and with regret etc.)

    This isn't a game. I hope she turns around.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    Several US automakers are considering moving some auto parts manufacturing to China to get around China’s export controls on rare earth magnets, according to
    @WSJ

    To state the obvious, this is exactly the opposite of what Trump’s tariffs were aiming to do.

    WSJ: Automakers Race to Find Workaround to China’s Stranglehold on Rare-Earth Magnets

    https://x.com/kyleichan/status/1930098051814723900

    Trump 47 will go down as the worst president in US history.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Andy_JS said:

    Positive discrimination probably creates more problems than it solves in the long-term.

    There's no such thing as discrimination that is positive.

    It creates unfairness and injustice to individuals however it's labelled.
    Just wrong. Positive discrimination has been very successful over the last 20 years in getting more women into law, medicine, engineering and construction, for example.

    Politics also.
    You need to learn that just because someone doesn't agree with you that doesn't mean they are "wrong". That's called dogma.

    For your information, positive discrimination is illegal in the UK; targets are not.

    Where did you do your legal training again?
    All women shortlists in politics are positive discrimination, let’s be honest. Illegal or not, I don’t do employment law so who knows.
    They're discrimination pure and simple, there's nothing positive about it. And its illegal in regular employment law, the politicians exempted themselves from the law.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,921

    Social media currently enjoying the videos of very bored people being forced to listen to Reeves drivel this morning.

    Mrs C made very much the same comment during the one 'clock news yesterday, while watching Starmer make his speech to the staff at an industrial workplace of some sort in Glasgow. If ever a group of people clearly didn't want to be there ......
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