By-election betting – politicalbetting.com
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It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.1 -
Pfft tinfoil hats dont work, if conspiracy theorist minded people had any common sense they would realise that if the cia had mind control rays the first thing they would do if tinfoil hats blocked it would be to ensure companies that make tin foil includes micro holes in the tin foil to let the rays throughoccasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.1 -
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.1 -
This is what most people want imo. They want authoritarianism for criminals, and libertarianism for everyone else. At the moment, it's more like the other way round.williamglenn said:
I'm not an anarcho capitalist. You need a strong state to do things like protecting the borders and executing criminals.Gallowgate said:@williamglenn at what point did you become an anarcho capitalist lunatic?
0 -
He actually means the opposite. That you’re more likely to get sacked if you have a higher profilePagan2 said:
Ah so its only an unfair sacking if I am importanteek said:
Depends on your role in the company and equally if they want an excuse to get rid of youPagan2 said:
If its my personal facebook account and I have never mentioned the company on it how is it bringing them into disrepute?BartholomewRoberts said:
The second one is cause for getting sectioned, not sacked.Pagan2 said:
Ok give you an example, I am for the sake of argument on facebook (I am not)Andy_JS said:
Define anything in life. Requires judgement, as everything always has done.Pagan2 said:
A reasonable statement marred by one little factAndy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Define unfairly sacked?
On my personal account not linked to the company in anyway but my work colleagues all know it
I make the following posts
Gays should be castrated
Lib dems are a great party
N****** go home
All teachers are peadophiles
A cartoon of muhammed
Which of these are cause for sacking?
However an employer can sack anyone who brings the firm into disrepute.0 -
More than one thing can be true at the same time. It can be in a company's interest not to be discriminatory, and to the advantage of other employees, and to wide society.williamglenn said:
So all this stuff about it being in the companies' own interest is a lie?eek said:
Because if everyone did that no women would get jobs if aged between 22 to about 45.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
In fact, it can be a win-win-win.0 -
But they can’t pay their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
Nigel , exactly , typical opinion from someone far away happy to despoil other people's lives just for their benefit.Nigelb said:
You ask @malcolmg what he thinks of despoiling those landscapes.FF43 said:
The pumped storage schemes I mentioned in the Highlands use existing lochs (Ness and Awe) as the lower reservoir. You need to build the upper reservoirs, which are about 1km wide, on the mountain tops, land has no economic value. Drop is 500m. They are close to existing power lines that are being upgraded to handle additional wind farms. They are definitely expensive to build, but on current estimates a fraction of Hinckley C and probably more useful.rcs1000 said:On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.
And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.
That's a pretty rare combination.
They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.
Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.
Technically, they're quite attractive...0 -
I don't need to prove where I was, its the prosecutions job to prove I was there....its called innocent till proven guiltyJosiasJessop said:
On the other hand, if a crime is committed and you are a potential suspect, you might find it harder to prove where you were - or were not.Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.1 -
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
That's really funny.Pagan2 said:
I don't need to prove where I was, its the prosecutions job to prove I was there....its called innocent till proven guiltyJosiasJessop said:
On the other hand, if a crime is committed and you are a potential suspect, you might find it harder to prove where you were - or were not.Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
Jesus didn't sacrifice himself though according to your bible he was up and about 3 days later so he at most sacrificed a weekend, hell I have slept in longer than that after a good partyHYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q1 -
Looks like PB has more than it's fair share of dickheads given the claptrap on this.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t pay their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.1 -
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
Human beings want to be able to do everything they want, without restriction. But they also want everybody else to be restricted so they can only do things that don't displease them.Andy_JS said:
This is what most people want imo. They want authoritarianism for criminals, and libertarianism for everyone else. At the moment, it's more like the other way round.williamglenn said:
I'm not an anarcho capitalist. You need a strong state to do things like protecting the borders and executing criminals.Gallowgate said:@williamglenn at what point did you become an anarcho capitalist lunatic?
In other words, humans are massive fucking hypocrites.1 -
a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
Oh do give over, I have worked for many companies where senior people have blotted their copybooks far more than a face book post. They don't get sacked they get moved and if the person raising the issue was an employee to no ones surprise they are the ones that get removed one way or the otherGallowgate said:
He actually means the opposite. That you’re more likely to get sacked if you have a higher profilePagan2 said:
Ah so its only an unfair sacking if I am importanteek said:
Depends on your role in the company and equally if they want an excuse to get rid of youPagan2 said:
If its my personal facebook account and I have never mentioned the company on it how is it bringing them into disrepute?BartholomewRoberts said:
The second one is cause for getting sectioned, not sacked.Pagan2 said:
Ok give you an example, I am for the sake of argument on facebook (I am not)Andy_JS said:
Define anything in life. Requires judgement, as everything always has done.Pagan2 said:
A reasonable statement marred by one little factAndy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Define unfairly sacked?
On my personal account not linked to the company in anyway but my work colleagues all know it
I make the following posts
Gays should be castrated
Lib dems are a great party
N****** go home
All teachers are peadophiles
A cartoon of muhammed
Which of these are cause for sacking?
However an employer can sack anyone who brings the firm into disrepute.0 -
Is it beyond your grasp of reality that women might want to work?williamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
Well I am talking theoretically here naturally we all know you are guilty if the police arrested yourcs1000 said:
That's really funny.Pagan2 said:
I don't need to prove where I was, its the prosecutions job to prove I was there....its called innocent till proven guiltyJosiasJessop said:
On the other hand, if a crime is committed and you are a potential suspect, you might find it harder to prove where you were - or were not.Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
-
Women's lib was the greatest cash cow everwilliamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
It was certainly highly profitable for bra manufacturers as after they burnt them they found unfettered boobs caused back pain and sagging and had to be replacedwooliedyed said:
Women's lib was the greatest cash cow everwilliamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.1 -
It's more accurate to say that certain US states are attempting to get this data, and the Federal government isn't intervening to prevent them.Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
However, I appreciate they end up being much the same thing.0 -
I think the point is that the concept of 'want' was hijacked by government to become 'need to' so they could enjoy double tax take from all familiesGallowgate said:
Is it beyond your grasp of reality that women might want to work?williamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
To be honest if we were as cynical as you we would go back to the 1950sPagan2 said:
If they do a hack on SSE meters then there is likely nothing the company can do it will likely be a ransomware attack where they turn off half a million homes and demand payment else they won't turn them back on. You are being very naive about the danger sorryBig_G_NorthWales said:
If so SSE will deal with it and we are vulnerable customers anywayPagan2 said:
And if some kid decides to switch off all the electric to your house will you be equally happy because they are developing these hacks as we speakBig_G_NorthWales said:
Dont worry about mePagan2 said:
People joke about me being a luddite because I don't carry my smart phone out of the house. I think the smart meter issue proves my pointnoneoftheabove said:
It is probably more of a social media thing than a left/right thing. Spend too much time on twatter and its sister sites, become a cultural bore, whether on the left or right. Live more offline, those are subjects that can be joked about, enjoyed or ignored as preferred.IanB2 said:
The right seems so obsessed with the minutiae of cultural issues, nowadays, that they have lost sight of the masses of ordinary folk simply wanting the country to work and to have the chance to improve their lives. That Farage at least has this on his radar screen, whereas the Tories do not, explains a lot.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Nothing like a bit of Blue on Blue action!Casino_Royale said:
Your view is that on every subject you can win an argument simply by being more relentless and repetitive than everyone else, and always having the last word.BartholomewRoberts said:
I assume you've ran out of arguments to bitch and moan about now that you're just turning personal and silly.Casino_Royale said:
You must be the world's most boring manBartholomewRoberts said:
If its universal, then why do so many people not have this "problem"?Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
What seems to be universal is that events happen that people are free to take part in, if they choose to do so.
That people are scorned or suspect or anything else if they don't take part in one event does not seem to be remotely universal.
Just live and let live.
I was responding to the statements and not turning personal.
If people want to celebrate Christmas for a month instead of a day, or wear poppies for a month instead of a day, or wear a lanyard for a month instead of a day, just let them. If you don't want to, then don't, its not mandatory.
If people want to do something they enjoy, then there's no harm in that. You don't need to take part, but you don't need to object either.
It doesn't work like that.
Doubtless you'll respond to this and claim some sort of victory - you simply won't be able to help yourself - but I'm happy with the points I've made and that I've addressed yours.
I won't be engaging with you further.
Every technology has its upsides and downsides, as a techie I am probably more aware of some of them than others
Each time an individual embraces a technology they should weigh up the benefit/danger ratio
I have been a software engineer since 1997 so grew up with the internet and technology and use it all the time.
However the benefits of
Social media
Carrying a smart phone everywhere
Smart meters,
Driving a modern car,
Home office version of id cards where its backed by a db containing all your personal data
To me at least dont outweigh the dangers they pose
My worry is people like BigG really don't realise for example how vulnerable a smart meter actually is to malicious actors
I am 81, and my wife 85, and if our energy supplier gives us 48 hours free electricity in a month due to the use of a smart meter than that is fine by us not least because my wife is a Scot who loves a bargain0 -
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.0 -
Some do, but the problem with the economy now is that they *have to* because of the aforementioned two-income trap. It serves the interests of capitalists more than the interests of society.Gallowgate said:
Is it beyond your grasp of reality that women might want to work?williamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.2 -
Alternatively you could look at it as most people who actually work in software when asked if they would consider a smart meter go hell no because we know how unsafe they actually areBig_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest if we were as cynical as you we would go back to the 1950sPagan2 said:
If they do a hack on SSE meters then there is likely nothing the company can do it will likely be a ransomware attack where they turn off half a million homes and demand payment else they won't turn them back on. You are being very naive about the danger sorryBig_G_NorthWales said:
If so SSE will deal with it and we are vulnerable customers anywayPagan2 said:
And if some kid decides to switch off all the electric to your house will you be equally happy because they are developing these hacks as we speakBig_G_NorthWales said:
Dont worry about mePagan2 said:
People joke about me being a luddite because I don't carry my smart phone out of the house. I think the smart meter issue proves my pointnoneoftheabove said:
It is probably more of a social media thing than a left/right thing. Spend too much time on twatter and its sister sites, become a cultural bore, whether on the left or right. Live more offline, those are subjects that can be joked about, enjoyed or ignored as preferred.IanB2 said:
The right seems so obsessed with the minutiae of cultural issues, nowadays, that they have lost sight of the masses of ordinary folk simply wanting the country to work and to have the chance to improve their lives. That Farage at least has this on his radar screen, whereas the Tories do not, explains a lot.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Nothing like a bit of Blue on Blue action!Casino_Royale said:
Your view is that on every subject you can win an argument simply by being more relentless and repetitive than everyone else, and always having the last word.BartholomewRoberts said:
I assume you've ran out of arguments to bitch and moan about now that you're just turning personal and silly.Casino_Royale said:
You must be the world's most boring manBartholomewRoberts said:
If its universal, then why do so many people not have this "problem"?Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
What seems to be universal is that events happen that people are free to take part in, if they choose to do so.
That people are scorned or suspect or anything else if they don't take part in one event does not seem to be remotely universal.
Just live and let live.
I was responding to the statements and not turning personal.
If people want to celebrate Christmas for a month instead of a day, or wear poppies for a month instead of a day, or wear a lanyard for a month instead of a day, just let them. If you don't want to, then don't, its not mandatory.
If people want to do something they enjoy, then there's no harm in that. You don't need to take part, but you don't need to object either.
It doesn't work like that.
Doubtless you'll respond to this and claim some sort of victory - you simply won't be able to help yourself - but I'm happy with the points I've made and that I've addressed yours.
I won't be engaging with you further.
Every technology has its upsides and downsides, as a techie I am probably more aware of some of them than others
Each time an individual embraces a technology they should weigh up the benefit/danger ratio
I have been a software engineer since 1997 so grew up with the internet and technology and use it all the time.
However the benefits of
Social media
Carrying a smart phone everywhere
Smart meters,
Driving a modern car,
Home office version of id cards where its backed by a db containing all your personal data
To me at least dont outweigh the dangers they pose
My worry is people like BigG really don't realise for example how vulnerable a smart meter actually is to malicious actors
I am 81, and my wife 85, and if our energy supplier gives us 48 hours free electricity in a month due to the use of a smart meter than that is fine by us not least because my wife is a Scot who loves a bargain
0 -
Your plan to put people out of work in order to depress costs is an insane way to go about making life more affordable as it would cause no end of pain and suffering for a generation before it helped, if it even did.williamglenn said:
Some do, but the problem with the economy now is that they *have to* because of the aforementioned two-income trap. It serves the interests of capitalists more than the interests of society.Gallowgate said:
Is it beyond your grasp of reality that women might want to work?williamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.0 -
The resurrection is a sign God accepted his sacrifice and that Jesus had conquered death so also offering eternal life and salvation with himPagan2 said:
Jesus didn't sacrifice himself though according to your bible he was up and about 3 days later so he at most sacrificed a weekend, hell I have slept in longer than that after a good partyHYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
This would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago, yet the data is unequivocal: the world at large now has an overwhelmingly more positive opinion of China than of the United States, with 79% of the world's countries favoring China.
This data was compiled based on a survey of 111,273 people in 100 countries by the Alliance of Democracies Foundation, founded by former NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Needless to say, not exactly an organization with a pro-China bias 😏
Here are the findings:
- 79% of the world's countries favor China versus the U.S.
- Fascinatingly, this is even the case among countries classified in the survey as "democracies" (as opposed to "authoritarian") who also favor China on average, particularly in Western Europe
- China is now the only great power among the three with a net positive image, while the U.S. and Russia are both viewed more negatively than positively
- The U.S. in particular has seen a sharp decline in its global standing over the past year, while perceptions of China and Russia have steadily improved..
https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1929513923373604898
2 -
Or just a sign he was the original zombieHYUFD said:
The resurrection is a sign God accepted his sacrifice and that Jesus had conquered death so also offering eternal life and salvation with himPagan2 said:
Jesus didn't sacrifice himself though according to your bible he was up and about 3 days later so he at most sacrificed a weekend, hell I have slept in longer than that after a good partyHYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
Whatever his sexuality was he was celibateSandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
Or it's a sign that he was pulled down off the cross before he was properly dead.HYUFD said:
The resurrection is a sign God accepted his sacrifice and that Jesus had conquered death so also offering eternal life and salvation with himPagan2 said:
Jesus didn't sacrifice himself though according to your bible he was up and about 3 days later so he at most sacrificed a weekend, hell I have slept in longer than that after a good partyHYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
But definitely one of the two.1 -
That was a rubbish second half from England. Every time their defenders should have cleared the ball properly they tried doing clever little passes to each other and lost the ball.0
-
Wait, Pagan is pregnant?Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
It was never mentioned either way, you just like to think so but lets face it he spent a lot of time with a known prostituteHYUFD said:
Whatever his sexuality was he was celibateSandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q1 -
I can confirm I am not pregnant if I was I could probably sell that story to so many papers I would never need to work againoccasionalranter said:
Wait, Pagan is pregnant?Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
On a serious note however the us authorities are using and have for several years warrentless geo fenced phone records to get suspect listsPagan2 said:
I can confirm I am not pregnant if I was I could probably sell that story to so many papers I would never need to work againoccasionalranter said:
Wait, Pagan is pregnant?Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.0 -
Anger as Oxford rail line classed as England and Wales project
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxyr75gk1vo
There is anger that a multi-billion pound project to build a railway line between Oxford and Cambridge has been classed as an England and Wales project.
The £6.6bn line will see no tracks laid in Wales but, because of the way it has been classified, the country will not benefit from any extra cash.
David Chadwick, Liberal Democrat MP for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, told BBC Radio Wales Breakfast it was "HS2 all over again", while former Welsh Labour transport minister Lee Waters called for Westminster colleagues to "fix" the system.
The UK government said the project is being financed through its "rail network enhancements pipeline", which it said was also funding schemes in Wales.
Under pressure over the issue in the Senedd, Wales' First Minister Eluned Morgan defended the decision but said Wales was not getting its "fair share" of rail cash...0 -
egPagan2 said:
On a serious note however the us authorities are using and have for several years warrentless geo fenced phone records to get suspect listsPagan2 said:
I can confirm I am not pregnant if I was I could probably sell that story to so many papers I would never need to work againoccasionalranter said:
Wait, Pagan is pregnant?Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
https://www.techdirt.com/2024/01/16/bulk-suspicion-typo-in-geofence-warrant-created-two-mile-long-dragnet/
1 -
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
Andrea Jenkyns in the Sunday Times Magazine, page 17.
"I'm not a feminist, I'm a meritocrat. If someone wants to wolf-whistle at me, at 50, bring it on".2 -
Q: Does the White House have a reaction to the election results in South Korea?
WH Press Secretary Leavitt: “Yes, we do. In fact, Let me find it for you. It should be somewhere here. Thank you. Um. We do not.”
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1929961717414449398
0 -
Rishi will be chuffed. RCB win the IPL.0
-
Are English railways not also used by Welsh people?Nigelb said:Anger as Oxford rail line classed as England and Wales project
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxyr75gk1vo
There is anger that a multi-billion pound project to build a railway line between Oxford and Cambridge has been classed as an England and Wales project.
The £6.6bn line will see no tracks laid in Wales but, because of the way it has been classified, the country will not benefit from any extra cash.
David Chadwick, Liberal Democrat MP for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, told BBC Radio Wales Breakfast it was "HS2 all over again", while former Welsh Labour transport minister Lee Waters called for Westminster colleagues to "fix" the system.
The UK government said the project is being financed through its "rail network enhancements pipeline", which it said was also funding schemes in Wales.
Under pressure over the issue in the Senedd, Wales' First Minister Eluned Morgan defended the decision but said Wales was not getting its "fair share" of rail cash...1 -
See wrong question...should have been twoNigelb said:Q: Does the White House have a reaction to the election results in South Korea?
WH Press Secretary Leavitt: “Yes, we do. In fact, Let me find it for you. It should be somewhere here. Thank you. Um. We do not.”
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1929961717414449398
1) did the white house realise there was an election outside america?
2) did the white house know where and what the result was?0 -
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.3 -
Only if they sit at the back of the trainAndy_JS said:
Are English railways not also used by Welsh people?Nigelb said:Anger as Oxford rail line classed as England and Wales project
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxyr75gk1vo
There is anger that a multi-billion pound project to build a railway line between Oxford and Cambridge has been classed as an England and Wales project.
The £6.6bn line will see no tracks laid in Wales but, because of the way it has been classified, the country will not benefit from any extra cash.
David Chadwick, Liberal Democrat MP for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, told BBC Radio Wales Breakfast it was "HS2 all over again", while former Welsh Labour transport minister Lee Waters called for Westminster colleagues to "fix" the system.
The UK government said the project is being financed through its "rail network enhancements pipeline", which it said was also funding schemes in Wales.
Under pressure over the issue in the Senedd, Wales' First Minister Eluned Morgan defended the decision but said Wales was not getting its "fair share" of rail cash...0 -
"Home Office accused of 'dog ate my homework' excuse as it blames good weather for record migrant crossings"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/weather-blame-record-migrant-crossings-home-office-number-people-boats-b1230985.html1 -
What sort of sacrifice is it if he knew he would be resurrected?HYUFD said:
The resurrection is a sign God accepted his sacrifice and that Jesus had conquered death so also offering eternal life and salvation with himPagan2 said:
Jesus didn't sacrifice himself though according to your bible he was up and about 3 days later so he at most sacrificed a weekend, hell I have slept in longer than that after a good partyHYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
The doctrine of substitutionary atonement makes no sense.0 -
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.0 -
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
MTGGTaz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
1 -
Angel Delight?carnforth said:
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
We despise them because of some random made up post on a blog site?Pagan2 said:
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.
I know you have a low threshold for despising people, but even so!0 -
Gotta ask the chef for that. When he's off duty.FrancisUrquhart said:
Angel Delight?carnforth said:
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
Well being fair its not just a random blog post I have also been seeing what they did for the last 40 yearsFoxy said:
We despise them because of some random made up post on a blog site?Pagan2 said:
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.
I know you have a low threshold for despising people, but even so!0 -
Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.1 -
Politeness should never be anything to do with the law or legal system. It should be customary. You know something is going badly wrong when politicians/the legal system starts trying to do so.1
-
The Mosque-Cathedral in Cordoba is one of the best places I've ever been. Plan to spend a while there.kjh said:Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.4 -
Why exactly? Is it really that difficult to leave the gays to celebrate their own thing and get on with your own life. If it's because of all of the corporate posturing on social media i agree with that but I can tell you that I and no other gay person I know asked for that.Casino_Royale said:Got a feeling I'm going to enjoy this week's issue:
3 -
I'm not sure that'll the case, we never offered discounts to over 65s when we were in the EU. You have to get a Senior Railcard. Romania offers it to Romanian pensioners. Some places you can still show proof of age.kjh said:Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.0 -
That's where you'll normally find Leigh Halfpenny.Pagan2 said:
Only if they sit at the back of the trainAndy_JS said:
Are English railways not also used by Welsh people?Nigelb said:Anger as Oxford rail line classed as England and Wales project
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxyr75gk1vo
There is anger that a multi-billion pound project to build a railway line between Oxford and Cambridge has been classed as an England and Wales project.
The £6.6bn line will see no tracks laid in Wales but, because of the way it has been classified, the country will not benefit from any extra cash.
David Chadwick, Liberal Democrat MP for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe, told BBC Radio Wales Breakfast it was "HS2 all over again", while former Welsh Labour transport minister Lee Waters called for Westminster colleagues to "fix" the system.
The UK government said the project is being financed through its "rail network enhancements pipeline", which it said was also funding schemes in Wales.
Under pressure over the issue in the Senedd, Wales' First Minister Eluned Morgan defended the decision but said Wales was not getting its "fair share" of rail cash...0 -
Does anyone have any gen on how our Reform Councils are doing? I'm seeing a few things coming loose.
When I least heard hit-the-ground-running Kent and Notts have cancelled/postponed all of the first month's committee meetings, except perhaps one in Kent.
The DOGE free audit team includes Arron Banks and a man called Nathaniel Fried. Officers who do not comply are threatened with disciplinary action. This looks important; they have demanded access to all sorts of internal documents, including supplier contracts, whistleblower reports etc.. I'm not sure what happens to staff if they point out that something proposed for the team to do is unlawful.
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/61123-reform-uk-says-officers-who-obstruct-internal-review-team-sent-into-county-council-will-be-guilty-of-gross-misconduct
They all seem to be deprioritising supervision of flood defences, rolling the committees into "Environment". Is it too woke (whatever woke means today?) Good luck with that one in Lincs when it floods.
And the leader of Lincs had a slightly car crash interview from the BBC. "Is it pro bono?" - "No, it's for free." I Can't find a vid of the whole thing, which had him not knowing anything which could be cut, RefUK having declared that there were a lot of things.
Excerpt: https://x.com/Parody_PM/status/19298571410257350280 -
Been there done that today. You are correct. Fabulous.carnforth said:
The Mosque-Cathedral in Cordoba is one of the best places I've ever been. Plan to spend a while there.kjh said:Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.2 -
It's on residence not nationality, normally.JohnLilburne said:
I'm not sure that'll the case, we never offered discounts to over 65s when we were in the EU. You have to get a Senior Railcard. Romania offers it to Romanian pensioners. Some places you can still show proof of age.kjh said:Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.
Having said that, there are some tourist attractions in Spain, for example the Royal palace in Madrid, which are free to EU citizens:
https://www.patrimonionacional.es/en/tarifa-gratuita-palacio-real-de-madrid
So there are some Brexit changes.1 -
Curiously, I was thinking earlier of a TV advert from, it must have been, the early 1990s. It featured an attractive blonde woman walking down the street, and the joke was she didn't get leers and catcalls from the group of hard-hatted workmen who were milling about as she passed. That sort of behaviour was commonplace back then, but I can't say I've seen it for many years. Bit depressing that elements of the British Right are now openly advocating a return to such oafishness.kinabalu said:
That's an odd collection of sentences.Andy_JS said:Andrea Jenkyns in the Sunday Times Magazine, page 17.
"I'm not a feminist, I'm a meritocrat. If someone wants to wolf-whistle at me, at 50, bring it on".2 -
'Despise' is quite a strong word. Do you really despise them? I sometimes find myself disappointed, annoyed, exasperated, etc. But despise - no.Pagan2 said:
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.
Jimmy Saville - yes. That schoolteacher I remember who locked a pupil in a cupboard, forgot about them, then when they remembered opened the door and shouted so loudly in their ear and clapped them with a wooden ruler that they literally burst the pupils ear-drum - yes.
(The schoolteacher in question went on to become a Tory MP - but that's not what I despise them for)0 -
Reform councils will end up getting sued for several times more than they manage to save in all likelihoodMattW said:Does anyone have any gen on how our Reform Councils are doing?
When I least heard hit-the-ground-running Kent and Notts have cancelled/postponed all of the first month's committee meetings, except perhaps one in Kent.
The DOGE free audit team includes Arron Banks and a man called Nathaniel Fried. Officers who do not comply are threatened with disciplinary action. This looks important; they have demanded access to all sorts of internal documents, including supplier contracts, whistleblower reports etc.. I'm not sure what happens to staff if they point out that something proposed for the team to do is unlawful.
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/61123-reform-uk-says-officers-who-obstruct-internal-review-team-sent-into-county-council-will-be-guilty-of-gross-misconduct
They all seem to be deprioritising supervision of flood defences, rolling the committees into "Environment". Is it too woke (whatever woke means today?) Good luck with that one in Lincs when it floods.
And the leader of Lincs had a slightly car crash interview from the BBC. "Is it pro bono?" - "No, it's for free." Excerpt:
https://x.com/Parody_PM/status/19298571410257350280 -
Not talking about trains. Talking about sight seeing and the discounts are big both in Italy and Spain if you are an old codger and an EU citizen. Italy enforces the EU membership rules, Spain doesn't. Saved a fortune over the last few days. Not in Italy though last month.JohnLilburne said:
I'm not sure that'll the case, we never offered discounts to over 65s when we were in the EU. You have to get a Senior Railcard. Romania offers it to Romanian pensioners. Some places you can still show proof of age.kjh said:Seville done. Cordoba now. Spanish trains are excellent.
If you are over 65 you can't get the senior discounts in the EU (another Brexit benefit). Italy enforce it, Spaniards don't seem to care, which is handy. Got into lots of places cheap.
PS I can see why you thought I was talking about trains. No sadly you need to buy a card for that, which is probably worthwhile, but I couldn't be bothered.0 -
Yes, but I don't want my community laid waste to evidence that they do not have any idea. Ashfield Indies at least have local loyalty, rather than being micromanaged from Farage's office in London.wooliedyed said:
Reform councils will end up getting sued for several times more than they manage to save in all likelihoodMattW said:Does anyone have any gen on how our Reform Councils are doing?
When I least heard hit-the-ground-running Kent and Notts have cancelled/postponed all of the first month's committee meetings, except perhaps one in Kent.
The DOGE free audit team includes Arron Banks and a man called Nathaniel Fried. Officers who do not comply are threatened with disciplinary action. This looks important; they have demanded access to all sorts of internal documents, including supplier contracts, whistleblower reports etc.. I'm not sure what happens to staff if they point out that something proposed for the team to do is unlawful.
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/61123-reform-uk-says-officers-who-obstruct-internal-review-team-sent-into-county-council-will-be-guilty-of-gross-misconduct
They all seem to be deprioritising supervision of flood defences, rolling the committees into "Environment". Is it too woke (whatever woke means today?) Good luck with that one in Lincs when it floods.
And the leader of Lincs had a slightly car crash interview from the BBC. "Is it pro bono?" - "No, it's for free." Excerpt:
https://x.com/Parody_PM/status/19298571410257350280 -
I said despise and meant it, politicians of the last 5 decades or so have flushed most of the country down the drain and turned us into slaves in practice if not in name. In theory we can change jobs, for many though its either not an option as they can't do without the wage or in fact the only other employment they could get would be equally shitty.ohnotnow said:
'Despise' is quite a strong word. Do you really despise them? I sometimes find myself disappointed, annoyed, exasperated, etc. But despise - no.Pagan2 said:
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.
Jimmy Saville - yes. That schoolteacher I remember who locked a pupil in a cupboard, forgot about them, then when they remembered opened the door and shouted so loudly in their ear and clapped them with a wooden ruler that they literally burst the pupils ear-drum - yes.
(The schoolteacher in question went on to become a Tory MP - but that's not what I despise them for)
But its that or be homeless0 -
He was? Which version of the bible was that bit in?SandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q1 -
I'd better not tell yiu Zia Yusuf refused to confirm they wouldn't be looking at benefits in public sector pensions within the council then!MattW said:
Yes, but I don't want my community laid waste to evidence that they do not have any idea.wooliedyed said:
Reform councils will end up getting sued for several times more than they manage to save in all likelihoodMattW said:Does anyone have any gen on how our Reform Councils are doing?
When I least heard hit-the-ground-running Kent and Notts have cancelled/postponed all of the first month's committee meetings, except perhaps one in Kent.
The DOGE free audit team includes Arron Banks and a man called Nathaniel Fried. Officers who do not comply are threatened with disciplinary action. This looks important; they have demanded access to all sorts of internal documents, including supplier contracts, whistleblower reports etc.. I'm not sure what happens to staff if they point out that something proposed for the team to do is unlawful.
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/61123-reform-uk-says-officers-who-obstruct-internal-review-team-sent-into-county-council-will-be-guilty-of-gross-misconduct
They all seem to be deprioritising supervision of flood defences, rolling the committees into "Environment". Is it too woke (whatever woke means today?) Good luck with that one in Lincs when it floods.
And the leader of Lincs had a slightly car crash interview from the BBC. "Is it pro bono?" - "No, it's for free." Excerpt:
https://x.com/Parody_PM/status/19298571410257350281 -
There was mention of Victor Meldrew earlier....yours for just £337,500.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/property/article-14776209/House-iconic-90s-BBC-sitcom-market.html0 -
Of all the things you've posted - I think this is the most baffling.williamglenn said:
No, it reflects how things were before we forced women into the workplace and subjected everyone to the "two-income trap".Gallowgate said:
This line of argument is on the same level as “true communism hasn’t been tried yet”.williamglenn said:
In such a labour market, a single income would be enough to support a household so it wouldn't matter.Gallowgate said:
But they can’t afford their rent and they have a baby due in 8 monthswilliamglenn said:
No, they've gained because they don't have to work for a dickhead company.JosiasJessop said:
It's not just your loss though, is it? The better rejected candidates have also lost.williamglenn said:
Why shouldn't I? If I decided to only accept applications from men between 25-35, why should the state stop me? If I'm missing out on talent because of it, then that's my loss.JosiasJessop said:
Why would you want to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic?williamglenn said:
That's a legitimate view. My point is just that it means that we don't have a true private sector. If I wanted to put together a team based on some arbitrary characteristic, it would be illegal.Gallowgate said:
Nah. As a citizen I believe that it is in the public interest for it to not be lawful to discriminate for many reasons.williamglenn said:
You don't need to know. As a consumer you just buy the products that you prefer, and serving your preferences is downstream of making the right hiring decisions.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
Besides you’ve slipped there and assumed this person has a partner.2 -
Damn, thanks to that 6 by Buttler my forecast for the England win was out by a whole 2 balls. Hey ho.0
-
The Emmanuel edition. One of Matthew's spicier versions before it was struck down and kept for special research by Vatican Scholars.turbotubbs said:
He was? Which version of the bible was that bit in?SandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q1 -
The Gospel of John, depending upon how you interpret it.turbotubbs said:
He was? Which version of the bible was that bit in?SandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
Butterscotch and I will happily pay a fiver....although we might be talking about different type of Angel Delight.carnforth said:
Gotta ask the chef for that. When he's off duty.FrancisUrquhart said:
Angel Delight?carnforth said:
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
0 -
And so strangely expressed!Stark_Dawning said:
Curiously, I was thinking earlier of a TV advert from, it must have been, the early 1990s. It featured an attractive blonde woman walking down the street, and the joke was she didn't get leers and catcalls from the group of hard-hatted workmen who were milling about as she passed. That sort of behaviour was commonplace back then, but I can't say I've seen it for many years. Bit depressing that elements of the British Right are now openly advocating a return to such oafishness.kinabalu said:
That's an odd collection of sentences.Andy_JS said:Andrea Jenkyns in the Sunday Times Magazine, page 17.
"I'm not a feminist, I'm a meritocrat. If someone wants to wolf-whistle at me, at 50, bring it on".
Feminism isn't meritocratic but enjoying being leered at is?
Hmm. Scratches head.0 -
I've not been to a Pride event for at least 40 years. I've nothing against them but I know of no gay friends who'd dream of going . I don't believe they reflect the reality of life for most gay people.Stereodog said:
Why exactly? Is it really that difficult to leave the gays to celebrate their own thing and get on with your own life. If it's because of all of the corporate posturing on social media i agree with that but I can tell you that I and no other gay person I know asked for that.Casino_Royale said:Got a feeling I'm going to enjoy this week's issue:
1 -
A rather odd way, I’d wager.BartholomewRoberts said:
The Gospel of John, depending upon how you interpret it.turbotubbs said:
He was? Which version of the bible was that bit in?SandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q0 -
I think that we get the politicians we want rather than the politicians we need. For decades people have wanted higher living standards, higher property prices, more leisure all with less taxes and and less state spending on things that don't benefit them. As soon as a politician sticks their head above the parapet to try and change things they get shot down. See Theresa May over care and Starmer over the Winter Fuel allowance. Perfectly understandable to despise politicians but ultimately it's the voters who put them there.Pagan2 said:
I said despise and meant it, politicians of the last 5 decades or so have flushed most of the country down the drain and turned us into slaves in practice if not in name. In theory we can change jobs, for many though its either not an option as they can't do without the wage or in fact the only other employment they could get would be equally shitty.ohnotnow said:
'Despise' is quite a strong word. Do you really despise them? I sometimes find myself disappointed, annoyed, exasperated, etc. But despise - no.Pagan2 said:
And politicians wonder why we despise themalgarkirk said:
Thanks for making my point. 'Civilized' will be defined in section 47 of Schedule 9 and will be further refined in the transitional provisions in Schedule 10. Schedule 14 will allow the Secretary of State following consultation with 47 named bodies to issue guidance as to how to interpret the definition, which shall not be binding.Pagan2 said:
Please define civillized, I am sure for example most of isis think they are civillisedalgarkirk said:
When taken alone, yes, ridiculous. But it is a clunky means to a end without which we would be a more horrible place - where you could employ 10,000 people and stipulate that they are all white, or destroy careers because women have babies, or refuse to employ them at all.Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Drafting law is hard. Sometimes what you want to achieve is simple and obvious, until you try to draft laws that actually cover it. Try drafting the 'Compelling Reluctant People to Behave In A Civilized Manner Act 2025'.
Welcome to ways of modern statutes.
Jimmy Saville - yes. That schoolteacher I remember who locked a pupil in a cupboard, forgot about them, then when they remembered opened the door and shouted so loudly in their ear and clapped them with a wooden ruler that they literally burst the pupils ear-drum - yes.
(The schoolteacher in question went on to become a Tory MP - but that's not what I despise them for)
But its that or be homeless0 -
True. But the end result is that the government is trying to use all the myriad of personal data to track people for pre-“crime” behaviour.rcs1000 said:
It's more accurate to say that certain US states are attempting to get this data, and the Federal government isn't intervening to prevent them.Malmesbury said:a
It’s actually true that under Trump, US state police forces are trying to grab all kinds of digital data to track women who are pregnant. To see if they are visiting states where abortion is still legal. This includes phone data.occasionalranter said:
Don't forget to stock up on bacofoil while you're out !Pagan2 said:
Sorry whats the connection here, I don't bring my phone as its a tracking device that shows everywhere I have been. Google will yes log my search of Kerrygold but I am unlikely to become a suspect in a murder because of that whereas that now happens in the us (before trump took over as well) where all people who's phones show up in the locale of a serious crime are considered suspectsGallowgate said:
Says the guy who doesn’t bring his phone with him when he leaves the house!Pagan2 said:
Its called google, if a company is raging racists or homophobes they are likely to have been called out on it.Gallowgate said:
Because people don’t have the freedom in reality to make those decisions. I have no idea if the random brands of butter I buy are a bunch of raging racists or homophobes and I have no realistic way of finding out.williamglenn said:
But in a free market, the companies that make bad decisions will lose out to the companies that make good decisions. Why not let the bad ones fail?JosiasJessop said:
Because companies don't necessarily do what's good for them if the people doing the hiring are discriminatory shitbags.williamglenn said:
That's totally contradictory. If it's good for the companies themselves, why would she have any problems? Let the dickhead companies be dickheads and if you're right, they'll soon go out of business.JosiasJessop said:
Perhaps to you. Others may see why restricting companies from being dickheads when hiring or firing is beneficial not just to the people being hired or fired, but the companies themselves.williamglenn said:
In a way, yes, but it's easier to justify regulating health and safety.JosiasJessop said:
That's rubbish.williamglenn said:
Unless companies are free to hire whomever they please then we don’t have a genuine private sector.JosiasJessop said:
It's more than sacking; ISTR one illustrious poster saying that he would never hire a vegan for his 'team', because they wouldn't fit in for... reasons.bondegezou said:
So… how do you enforce that? Are there some characteristics it’s unfair to sack someone for and some it’s OK?Andy_JS said:
It goes without saying that nobody should be unfairly sacked, whatever the reason is.Gallowgate said:
No. Because pregnancy is a protected characteristic and if it wasn’t women could be sacked for getting pregnant. I don’t favour that. Do you?Andy_JS said:
Don't you find the whole concept of "protected characteristics" ridiculous?bondegezou said:
Like what? They have to not discriminate on protected characteristics, but I can’t think of much they have to comply with in terms of “regulations on diversity and equality”. Cite some legislation if this is true.williamglenn said:
Companies are not free to take on whatever policies they see fit. They have to comply with all sorts of regulations on diversity and equality.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Hiring practices matter as much as conditions and sackings/redundancies.
Would you say the same for health and safety? "Unless companies are free to work in whatever manner they want then we don't have a genuine private sector" ?
I mean, take Mrs J. She would have problems in three ways: she is a woman, she is an immigrant, and she is from a Muslim country. Yet she has been a damned good employee for every company she has worked for, and is in demand. If those companies had been dickheads and not hired her because she was a woman, or an immigrant, or her potential religion, then they would have been all the poorer.
However, I appreciate they end up being much the same thing.0 -
Musk has gone in with both feet on Twitter against Trump's "great big beautiful Bill" - calls it a "disgusting abomination".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THyEwaLp2TY&ab_channel=PonderingPolitics2 -
The Gospel of John refers repeatedly to "the disciple whom Jesus loved" which has been interpreted by some, for hundreds of years, as being a homosexual love. That's not a modern invention.turbotubbs said:
A rather odd way, I’d wager.BartholomewRoberts said:
The Gospel of John, depending upon how you interpret it.turbotubbs said:
He was? Which version of the bible was that bit in?SandyRentool said:
And of course Jesus was a bisexual man, so he would have been celebrating Pride.HYUFD said:
Actually a celebration of Jesus sacrificing himself for our sins and not for a month, not that I have anything against Pride particularlyGallowgate said:
Arguably better than celebrating someone being painfully nailed to a crossisam said:
We live in a world where we are expected to celebrate for a month because someone likes it up the bum. 🌈 🤷🏼♂️Casino_Royale said:
Yes, this stuff is essentially all year round now.Cookie said:
We get two months in Manchester. Pride in June, Manchester Pride in August.Casino_Royale said:
When did I ever say I'm not live and let live?eek said:
I have a philosophy of live and let live and I’m the one with a blind spot?eek said:
You will have to enlighten me because at the moment you remind me ofCasino_Royale said:
Then, you need to work harder to educate yourself.eek said:
Some companies think diversity is important and spend money on it.Casino_Royale said:
Er, yes it is. And I suspect I've worked for more clients in more sectors than you have.Malmesbury said:
No, it isn’t.Casino_Royale said:
That's not a real choice, though. This is universal in the corporate world now.Eabhal said:
Companies are free to take on whatever policies they see fit; you're free to take on whatever job you fancy.Casino_Royale said:
EVERY SINGLE COMPANY IS LIKE THIS. You can't escape.Eabhal said:
Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.Casino_Royale said:
You really don't get this, do you?BartholomewRoberts said:
Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.Casino_Royale said:
No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.Gallowgate said:
That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.Casino_Royale said:
All companies are like this now. All of them.Mexicanpete said:
I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.Casino_Royale said:
That's a great analogy.Leon said:
The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violentwilliamglenn said:
The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.Andy_JS said:"DW Politics
@dw_politics
JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."
https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323
But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.
Who wants this shit?
Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.
So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.
You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.
Which one is it?
The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.
So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?
If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.
This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.
[PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
The solution is political: either Woke is reined in, or it ends.
For example: Pride could go back to being a fun weekend and a march, fine, but no that wasn't enough. Now, its all of June and July and August at 110dB every single year and rainbow lanyards and flags all year round. It bores people at best and p1sses people off at worst.
Why? Because people don't like to be hectored but it's politically incorrect - and dangerous - to object so people feel even more frustrated because they can't say anything.
If you're not proportionate on anything and set rules around the right thing to say, or not say, you get a backlash.
The religious adherents can never see it, because they love it.
You're right that the solution is political - but I don't think you'll find much support for banning woke activity in private companies across wider society.
I'm not entirely unsympathetic. I feel this way about our lack of cycle infrastructure. Write to your MP, put up posters, make the argument here and elsewhere. Explain why it harms your business and/or society. Good luck, I guess.
Thankfully, there is a pushback - but it needs a real shove to tip it out the system.
I’ve encountered the proactive shite twice in a long career.
That and the time HR fucked up booking a resteraunt, because they had no idea of actual diversity.
This is just denialism: people veer between saying the problem doesn't exist or that it does but that's your problem.
Some companies employ people who think it's important
My viewpoint is that it's irrelevant to me but if people think it's important that's fine by me.
I really don't see why people get worked up about it...
That's not how I'm being treated. This stuff is megaphoned into my ear every year for a month or more, like Steve Bray, and if you ever objected your career would be shot.
That's not live and let live. That's live in sufferance and try not to let it get to you.
There's also LBGT history month in February, but that' not really caught on yet. Give it time, mind.
It's become a religion.
https://x.com/mrbrum43/status/1929599342421159990?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
King James I was quoted as saying it hundreds of years ago.0 -
Feminism while I understand the root went too far as these movements often do, they argued for womens right to work etc which is good however to a certain extent they made it a badge of shame for women who actually preferred being a homemaker onlykinabalu said:
And so strangely expressed!Stark_Dawning said:
Curiously, I was thinking earlier of a TV advert from, it must have been, the early 1990s. It featured an attractive blonde woman walking down the street, and the joke was she didn't get leers and catcalls from the group of hard-hatted workmen who were milling about as she passed. That sort of behaviour was commonplace back then, but I can't say I've seen it for many years. Bit depressing that elements of the British Right are now openly advocating a return to such oafishness.kinabalu said:
That's an odd collection of sentences.Andy_JS said:Andrea Jenkyns in the Sunday Times Magazine, page 17.
"I'm not a feminist, I'm a meritocrat. If someone wants to wolf-whistle at me, at 50, bring it on".
Feminism isn't meritocratic but enjoying being leered at is?
Hmm. Scratches head.0 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd705yy74oFrancisUrquhart said:
Butterscotch and I will happily pay a fiver....although we might be talking about different type of Angel Delight.carnforth said:
Gotta ask the chef for that. When he's off duty.FrancisUrquhart said:
Angel Delight?carnforth said:
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
I thought you were refering to this!0 -
Is there nothing that the woke blob won't do to thwart Nigels grand plan?!?!wooliedyed said:
Reform councils will end up getting sued for several times more than they manage to save in all likelihoodMattW said:Does anyone have any gen on how our Reform Councils are doing?
When I least heard hit-the-ground-running Kent and Notts have cancelled/postponed all of the first month's committee meetings, except perhaps one in Kent.
The DOGE free audit team includes Arron Banks and a man called Nathaniel Fried. Officers who do not comply are threatened with disciplinary action. This looks important; they have demanded access to all sorts of internal documents, including supplier contracts, whistleblower reports etc.. I'm not sure what happens to staff if they point out that something proposed for the team to do is unlawful.
https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/61123-reform-uk-says-officers-who-obstruct-internal-review-team-sent-into-county-council-will-be-guilty-of-gross-misconduct
They all seem to be deprioritising supervision of flood defences, rolling the committees into "Environment". Is it too woke (whatever woke means today?) Good luck with that one in Lincs when it floods.
And the leader of Lincs had a slightly car crash interview from the BBC. "Is it pro bono?" - "No, it's for free." Excerpt:
https://x.com/Parody_PM/status/1929857141025735028
(Not the 'make Nigel rich and on the telly all the time' plan, the other grand plan. The one that involves 'things I vaguely don't like' and... stuff. That one.).0 -
That is what started the joke earlier.carnforth said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cewd705yy74oFrancisUrquhart said:
Butterscotch and I will happily pay a fiver....although we might be talking about different type of Angel Delight.carnforth said:
Gotta ask the chef for that. When he's off duty.FrancisUrquhart said:
Angel Delight?carnforth said:
Not heard of them. Looks like they have Toby beat. Roast and a pint for £11. Sundays only though.Taz said:
Do they have a Hungry Horse ?Nigelb said:
Todmorden has no Toby Carvery.FrancisUrquhart said:
But I heard the Toby Carvery serves Angel Delight....Leon said:We’re a long way from the Toby Carvery in Todmorden, Tonto
I thought you were refering to this!0 -
Noticed that some central London restaurants have increased their automatic tip percentage to 13.5% or 14.5%.0
This discussion has been closed.