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By-election betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,506
edited June 3 in General
By-election betting – politicalbetting.com

We have the Hamilton, Larkhall, and Stonehouse by-election on Thursday, in 2021 the SNP polled 46.2% in this constituency but things are different today with the surge of Reform and whilst the SNP lead in the polls it isn’t impressive as it was in 2021.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,246
    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    40 to 45 looks value to me
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936
    I suspect the SNP will narrowly win the seat but with their voteshare down on 2021. Reform likely the biggest gainers and overtaking Labour for second
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,346

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    That sounds horrid....what torture.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,387
    HYUFD said:

    I suspect the SNP will narrowly win the seat but with their voteshare down on 2021. Reform likely the biggest gainers and overtaking Labour for second

    29% may be enough to win this by-election. Whether RefUK can get that high is difficult to say.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,412
    So this is a Holyrood by-election, NOT a proper Westminster by-election?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,091
    FPT
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Read up on the howling that occurring if someone thinks about thinking about maybe suggesting a hydro-electric scheme in the U.K.
    You'd think there would be plenty of remote areas in Scotland they could use.
    There are at least four pumped storage schemes with preliminary planning consent in the Highlands eg Coire Glas above Loch Ness. They are massive projects with complicated geology that will costs billions and take a decade or so to build. If they are all built they will hold about a third of a day's total UK electricity generation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,412
    edited June 3

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    I hope you enjoy Sunderland
    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/tyne-and-wear-metro-washington-loop-extension.287134/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    I suspect the SNP will narrowly win the seat but with their voteshare down on 2021. Reform likely the biggest gainers and overtaking Labour for second

    29% may be enough to win this by-election. Whether RefUK can get that high is difficult to say.
    I would suggest if Reform are winning a Scottish marginal constituency like Hamilton they are not only heading for UK government but possibly even most MSPs at Holyrood too. So although their vote will likely be up I doubt it will be enough to win
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    FF43 said:

    FPT

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Read up on the howling that occurring if someone thinks about thinking about maybe suggesting a hydro-electric scheme in the U.K.
    You'd think there would be plenty of remote areas in Scotland they could use.
    There are at least four pumped storage schemes with preliminary planning consent in the Highlands eg Coire Glas above Loch Ness. They are massive projects with complicated geology that will costs billions and take a decade or so to build. If they are all built they will hold about a third of a day's total UK electricity generation.
    FPT:

    You could of course create a few more of these by working in tandem with extracting the rock required for tidal lagoon power stations. As long as it is of the correct quality for the "armour rock " cladding required to withstand the tides (and perhaps, acid rain) for 120/180 years.

    Just sayin'...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 84,346
    edited June 3
    Awks....

    Mike Turner of Freshwater Strategy, who conducted the Liberals’ polling returned research that wildly overstated the Coalition’s support, according to Liberals insiders who had access to the campaign research.

    He did not respond to The Nightly’s calls but has written in the Australian Financial Review about how he had missed Labor’s landslide, including wrongly believing that voters who voted No to the Voice referendum would switch to the Coalition.

    His errors meant party strategists were left in the dark that they were under threat in their own seats and wrongly believed they were capable of taking out Labor heartland seats such as Werriwa.

    https://thenightly.com.au/politics/federal-election-2025/who-will-replace-peter-dutton-wa-mp-andrew-hastie-pulls-out-of-liberal-leadership-contention-c-18590888
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,883

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    When energy is this cheap it makes sense just to buy a battery for the house, regardless of whether you've got solar or an EV.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,678

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    Approval Voting vs Alternative Vote cage match?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 35,387
    edited June 3
    FPT
    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    There's probably a technical reason, but if we have too much energy today why are we still generating around 15% from nuclear power stations and 8% from gas turbines?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,936

    Awks....

    Mike Turner of Freshwater Strategy, who conducted the Liberals’ polling returned research that wildly overstated the Coalition’s support, according to Liberals insiders who had access to the campaign research.

    He did not respond to The Nightly’s calls but has written in the Australian Financial Review about how he had missed Labor’s landslide, including wrongly believing that voters who voted No to the Voice referendum would switch to the Coalition.

    His errors meant party strategists were left in the dark that they were under threat in their own seats and wrongly believed they were capable of taking out Labor heartland seats such as Werriwa.

    https://thenightly.com.au/politics/federal-election-2025/who-will-replace-peter-dutton-wa-mp-andrew-hastie-pulls-out-of-liberal-leadership-contention-c-18590888

    Now of course the Liberals have gone in a radically different direction after Dutton's defeat, electing Sussan Ley their new leader, a moderate in the Turnbull mode and more open to action on climate change who could almost be a Teal.

    It would be like the Tories replacing a defeated Jenrick with Tugendhat or Stride
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    And if we are not good? Asking for a friend...
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    There's probably a technical reason, but if we have too much energy today why are we still generating around 15% of power from nuclear power stations and 8% from gas turbines?
    Can nuclear be safely turned off on demand? I thought it was safer to keep it running, even if its power isn't required.

    Gas . . . I'm assuming because our grid isn't capable of spreading the power where its needed well enough yet, so we may have too much in some locations but not enough elsewhere, which requires gas there? But that's just a guess.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,246
    edited June 3

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    And if we are not good? Asking for a friend...
    That Farage photo gets used in a header every day for the rest of the year.

    Here's an edited version of that photo.


  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    The “15 minute cities are woke” brigade are not going to want the government charging and discharging from their cars based on the whims of the power grid.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,883

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    There's probably a technical reason, but if we have too much energy today why are we still generating around 15% of power from nuclear power stations and 8% from gas turbines?
    Can nuclear be safely turned off on demand? I thought it was safer to keep it running, even if its power isn't required.

    Gas . . . I'm assuming because our grid isn't capable of spreading the power where its needed well enough yet, so we may have too much in some locations but not enough elsewhere, which requires gas there? But that's just a guess.
    Possibly the inertia thing, or we've maxed out storage so it's cheaper just to burn it?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    And if we are not good? Asking for a friend...
    That Farage photo gets used in a header every day for the rest of the year.

    Here's an edited version of that photo.


    We'll be good then...
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,883

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    The “15 minute cities are woke” brigade are not going to want the government charging and discharging from their cars based on the whims of the power grid.
    They won't need to. The market will work its magic via the spot price of electricity.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,678
    edited June 3

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    Sadly most current EVs can’t do Vehicle to Grid supply & the majority of home EV chargers aren’t capable of it either. You need the right control circuitry in the EV that talks the standardised protocol (ISO 15118 apparently) and you need a suitably powerful DC to AC converter in the charger which makes the charger more expensive.

    It’s something that will might be worthwhile for people who can garage their cars & have the vehicle at home during peak demand hours (4-7pm most days) but the extra expense probably makes it marginal at best for individual car owners. Large battery plants that can take advantage of economies of scale & use cheaper batteries are in a much better position I suspect.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    The “15 minute cities are woke” brigade are not going to want the government charging and discharging from their cars based on the whims of the power grid.
    If people have the option of charging their cars for free then enough people will take up that option voluntarily, without needing the government to do anything.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,412

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    Adult Videos?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,224
    Phil said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    Sadly most current EVs can’t do Vehicle to Grid supply & the majority of home EV chargers aren’t capable of it either. You need the right control circuitry in the EV that talks the standardised protocol (ISO 15118 apparently) and you need a suitably powerful DC to AC converter in the charger which makes the charger more expensive.

    It’s something that will might be worthwhile for people who can garage their cars & have the vehicle at home during peak demand hours (4-7pm most days) but the extra expense probably makes it marginal at best for individual car owners. Large battery plants that can take advantage of economies of scale & use cheaper batteries are in a much better position I suspect.
    Fogstar and others will sell you a 15kwh battery for your home for £2500 including VAT.

    My issue is more finding where to put it and getting an electrician to do the work
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    And if we are not good? Asking for a friend...
    That Farage photo gets used in a header every day for the rest of the year.
    You just use it to illustrate his poll leads, like the Smiling Gordons of old.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    After the nuclear bombers....

    The Crimean Bridge is in a state of emergency, after the Ukrainians detonated "the first" 1.1 tonnes of explosives underwater on the bridge supports.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 11,036
    Ben Walker says Britain Elects will be doing a forecast for this by election Thurs AM in case anyone wants to use it to inform a late bet
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,631
    I shall submit my just dethreaded :anguished: photo for the day later on to see if "bloomers" is in the spam trap.

    Ma's out pa's out, let's talk rude ...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSrXqOI9988
  • MattWMattW Posts: 27,631
    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    There's probably a technical reason, but if we have too much energy today why are we still generating around 15% from nuclear power stations and 8% from gas turbines?
    Punting, perhaps it's the distribution not having been built yet between regions?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 54,412

    As I am going to be in an area with no broadband or mobile signal for the next few days, the spam trap has been updated. so avoid talking about verboten topics, also don't use bad language, even if it is asterisked.

    If you're good, Robert will publish my piece that discusses AV.

    And if we are not good? Asking for a friend...
    That Farage photo gets used in a header every day for the rest of the year.
    You just use it to illustrate his poll leads, like the Smiling Gordons of old.
    "What do you mean Flash Gordon approaching???"
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,694

    After the nuclear bombers....

    The Crimean Bridge is in a state of emergency, after the Ukrainians detonated "the first" 1.1 tonnes of explosives underwater on the bridge supports.

    I doubt just one of those would do enough damage to bring the bridge down. It might seriously reduce the weight loading, though. As a comparison, the Dambuster's bouncing bombs were 3,000kg of explosive (Torpex).

    Also, there are two bridges: the road and the rail one. I'm still unsure whether they've got the rail bridge back up to full loading/capacity after the explosion a couple of years ago.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    Footage of the Kerch Bridge supports being blown up:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ789p2fIrM&ab_channel=Kanal13
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072

    Andy_JS said:

    FPT

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    There's probably a technical reason, but if we have too much energy today why are we still generating around 15% of power from nuclear power stations and 8% from gas turbines?
    Can nuclear be safely turned off on demand? I thought it was safer to keep it running, even if its power isn't required.

    Gas . . . I'm assuming because our grid isn't capable of spreading the power where its needed well enough yet, so we may have too much in some locations but not enough elsewhere, which requires gas there? But that's just a guess.
    Re nuclear: that's right, it's pretty inflexible.

    I mean, you can choose to slow the fissionable process (and do when you need to refuel the reactor), but you want to avoid excess thermal cycles as much as possible. Every time you go through a heat-cool-heat cycle, you go through a process of expansion and contraction, and that means that metal weakens and the risk of leaks increases. And this is a particular issue because the metal in nuclear reactors tends to become brittle over time due to it being bombarded with neutrons. That combination of thermal cycles and brittle material means that nuclear power plants become increasingly expensive to maintain as they get older.

    And the consequence of this is that nuclear operators would often rather sell electricity for negative prices (particularly for older plants), than turn the power on and off.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,667
    HYUFD said:

    Awks....

    Mike Turner of Freshwater Strategy, who conducted the Liberals’ polling returned research that wildly overstated the Coalition’s support, according to Liberals insiders who had access to the campaign research.

    He did not respond to The Nightly’s calls but has written in the Australian Financial Review about how he had missed Labor’s landslide, including wrongly believing that voters who voted No to the Voice referendum would switch to the Coalition.

    His errors meant party strategists were left in the dark that they were under threat in their own seats and wrongly believed they were capable of taking out Labor heartland seats such as Werriwa.

    https://thenightly.com.au/politics/federal-election-2025/who-will-replace-peter-dutton-wa-mp-andrew-hastie-pulls-out-of-liberal-leadership-contention-c-18590888

    Now of course the Liberals have gone in a radically different direction after Dutton's defeat, electing Sussan Ley their new leader, a moderate in the Turnbull mode and more open to action on climate change who could almost be a Teal.

    It would be like the Tories replacing a defeated Jenrick with Tugendhat or Stride
    That caused some initial tension with the Nationals but for now harmony seems to have returned.

    The Coalition have, I would argue, as significant a task to defeat Albanese in 2028 as the incoming Labour leader faced against Boris Johnson in 2020.

    Will history repeat?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072
    On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.

    And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.

    That's a pretty rare combination.

    They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.

    Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,667
    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    edited June 3
    rcs1000 said:

    On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.

    And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.

    That's a pretty rare combination.

    They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.

    Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.

    Plus the limited sites are usually a long way from demand. So you are going to have transmission losses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
    I get the case for battery storage attached to a wind farm (or solar) or whatever: but I think the business case for dedicated battery storage away from either supply or demand is pretty weak. (Or rather, it's pretty fleeting, because as we add vehicles and home storage to the network, then the need for this kind of on grid backup diminishes sharply.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    Regarding the "facilitating immigration" huffing on the last thread, I note that the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

    As it is the courts, and not the government which sentence individuals, "two tier Keir" is a pretty dumb comment in this case.

    Let's see what happens with the French investigation, which will possess the evidence regarding the fatalities.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,921
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    The real issue surely is that we're taking so long to process the "boat people's", and indeed everyone else's, applications. Which means that the applicants whether eventually successful or not have to be put somewhere.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
    I get the case for battery storage attached to a wind farm (or solar) or whatever: but I think the business case for dedicated battery storage away from either supply or demand is pretty weak. (Or rather, it's pretty fleeting, because as we add vehicles and home storage to the network, then the need for this kind of on grid backup diminishes sharply.)
    Not a few of these projects will be adjacent to demand - datacentres for example.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 14,667

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    The real issue surely is that we're taking so long to process the "boat people's", and indeed everyone else's, applications. Which means that the applicants whether eventually successful or not have to be put somewhere.
    Probably true but the other issue seems to be the numbers getting some form of protection whether directly or on appeal.

    https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/stay-informed/explainers/top-facts-from-the-latest-statistics-on-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014

    After the nuclear bombers....

    The Crimean Bridge is in a state of emergency, after the Ukrainians detonated "the first" 1.1 tonnes of explosives underwater on the bridge supports.

    I doubt just one of those would do enough damage to bring the bridge down. It might seriously reduce the weight loading, though. As a comparison, the Dambuster's bouncing bombs were 3,000kg of explosive (Torpex).

    Also, there are two bridges: the road and the rail one. I'm still unsure whether they've got the rail bridge back up to full loading/capacity after the explosion a couple of years ago.

    The Ukrainians appear to have - God knows how - placed the explosives directly agains the bridge supports, which comprise steel bundles. The dams brought down by the Dambusters were massive stone structures. This Ukrainian strike can have been far more surgical. The explosive used may well have been Semtex - somewhat less powerful than Torpex, but better able to be shaped for maximum damage.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,921
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    The real issue surely is that we're taking so long to process the "boat people's", and indeed everyone else's, applications. Which means that the applicants whether eventually successful or not have to be put somewhere.
    Probably true but the other issue seems to be the numbers getting some form of protection whether directly or on appeal.

    https://www.refugeecouncil.org.uk/stay-informed/explainers/top-facts-from-the-latest-statistics-on-refugees-and-people-seeking-asylum/
    Does that mean that, although they are here, there's some agency looking to do them harm? The Taliban? Or someone here already?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
    I get the case for battery storage attached to a wind farm (or solar) or whatever: but I think the business case for dedicated battery storage away from either supply or demand is pretty weak. (Or rather, it's pretty fleeting, because as we add vehicles and home storage to the network, then the need for this kind of on grid backup diminishes sharply.)
    Not a few of these projects will be adjacent to demand - datacentres for example.
    Fair: given that both power cost and guaranteed uptime are key to datacenter profitability, that makes sense.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,255
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072
    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    One can only hope.

    Should the Kerch bridge come down, the ability of the Russians to supply both the civilians and the forces in the Crimean peninsular would become very precarious indeed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    Losing the Bridge would be a horror show for Putin.

    Maybe half a dozen Taurus missiles will finish it off.

    I may be misremembering, but I thought I'd heard Ukraine planning FOUR high profile assaults?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,161

    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    Losing the Bridge would be a horror show for Putin.

    Maybe half a dozen Taurus missiles will finish it off.

    I may be misremembering, but I thought I'd heard Ukraine planning FOUR high profile assaults?
    Shhhh! Don't tip Hegseth off. He'll be straight on the blower to the Kremlin.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 60,072

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    You’d need a smart meter for that but @Luckyguy1983 thinks they’re woke
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 45,557
    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the "facilitating immigration" huffing on the last thread, I note that the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

    As it is the courts, and not the government which sentence individuals, "two tier Keir" is a pretty dumb comment in this case.

    Let's see what happens with the French investigation, which will possess the evidence regarding the fatalities.

    Slogans sometimes have a grain of truth but "two tier Keir" isn't one of them. Even its derivation was from a misconception. The robust treatment of the white racist thugs last summer was per his own playbook as DPP applied to the 2011 London riots where many of the culprits were not white. It should be "one tier Keir" really. Which still rhymes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,161

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    You’d need a smart meter for that but @Luckyguy1983 thinks they’re woke
    Smart meters? The b@stards are always taking the knee!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,694

    After the nuclear bombers....

    The Crimean Bridge is in a state of emergency, after the Ukrainians detonated "the first" 1.1 tonnes of explosives underwater on the bridge supports.

    I doubt just one of those would do enough damage to bring the bridge down. It might seriously reduce the weight loading, though. As a comparison, the Dambuster's bouncing bombs were 3,000kg of explosive (Torpex).

    Also, there are two bridges: the road and the rail one. I'm still unsure whether they've got the rail bridge back up to full loading/capacity after the explosion a couple of years ago.

    The Ukrainians appear to have - God knows how - placed the explosives directly agains the bridge supports, which comprise steel bundles. The dams brought down by the Dambusters were massive stone structures. This Ukrainian strike can have been far more surgical. The explosive used may well have been Semtex - somewhat less powerful than Torpex, but better able to be shaped for maximum damage.
    Yes, but bridges can be notoriously weak, but also tremendously strong. Look at how the Remagen Bridge stood up for days despite a massive hammering in 1945. You can bring them down, but it requires very surgical strikes.

    Perhaps more importantly, Warmonitor is claiming that Ukraine hit *two* Beriev A-50 AWACS planes t'other day. They don't have many of those left, especially the modernised ones, and they're more than a little important.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,091
    edited June 3
    rcs1000 said:

    On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.

    And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.

    That's a pretty rare combination.

    They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.

    Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.

    The pumped storage schemes I mentioned in the Highlands use existing lochs (Ness and Awe) as the lower reservoir. You need to build the upper reservoirs, which are about 1km wide, on the mountain tops, land has no economic value. Drop is 500m. They are close to existing power lines that are being upgraded to handle additional wind farms. They are definitely expensive to build, but on current estimates a fraction of Hinckley C and probably more useful.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 45,694
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    One can only hope.

    Should the Kerch bridge come down, the ability of the Russians to supply both the civilians and the forces in the Crimean peninsular would become very precarious indeed.
    My understanding is that the bridge is much less important than it was, as the Russians have built a new railway line linking Rostov to Crimea? (I think this is the line where a bridge mysteriously fell earlier in the week).
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,249
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    This is the cost of my electricity right now. It's been negative most of the day, but now we're into peak hours it's just tipped up to 10p /kwH. Hence why I boiled the kettle half an hour ago:
    https://agile.octopushome.net/dashboard

    I thought this would be a good tariff to be on: actually it is, but not THAT good: in summer, when I am generating a lot of my own electricity through solar panels anyway it is cheap, and in winter when I am not it is expensive. And the times when I am generating the most correspond when the time when import prices and export prices are both lowest. I am in the fortunate position that most of my panels face just south of west, so I am still generating quite a lot during the 4-7pm peak, but even so: I need to find a way of using all this free but unexportable electricity. (My solution so far: hot tub (only an inflatable one; I'm not some plutocrat)).

    Solar panels are great, but for saving money what you really want is a battery (I have a 5kw battery - I should have got a 10kw one).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986

    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    Losing the Bridge would be a horror show for Putin.

    Maybe half a dozen Taurus missiles will finish it off.

    I may be misremembering, but I thought I'd heard Ukraine planning FOUR high profile assaults?
    Blimey.
    That's the head of the SBU ?
    https://x.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1929879402432610724
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 897
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    "Lower energy costs make retirement less expensive"

    What was all that about pensioners freezing because there was no WFA? Wouldn't be surprised if the young started revolting over the amount they have to pay for rent and tax.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj42022gqzwo
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,704

    @alaynatreene

    NEW: Laura Loomer met privately with JD Vance at the White House (specifically EEOB) this morning, three sources familiar w/ the mtg tell me &
    @joshscampbell


    The sources would not share the substance of the 1-on-1 mtg. Loomer did not meet w/ Trump & has since departed the WH

    After Loomer’s last known visit to the White House in April where she met directly Trump, the administration fired several NSC staffers whom Loomer labeled as disloyal, including the director and deputy director of the NSA
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,043
    edited June 3
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.

    And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.

    That's a pretty rare combination.

    They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.

    Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.

    The pumped storage schemes I mentioned in the Highlands use existing lochs (Ness and Awe) as the lower reservoir. You need to build the upper reservoirs, which are about 1km wide, on the mountain tops, land has no economic value. Drop is 500m. They are close to existing power lines that are being upgraded to handle additional wind farms. They are definitely expensive to build, but on current estimates a fraction of Hinckley C and probably more useful.
    "No economic value"

    The Highlands of course do have economic value, and also value beyond economics.

    I vote for paving over Surrey with solar farms and batteries instead. After all, the deer aren't the ones using the power.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On the previous thread, there was a discussion about why we don't have more pumped storage.

    And the answer is that there actually aren't that many suitable sites. You need to have two reservoirs that are very close, of sufficient size, and which have enough vertical drop between them.

    That's a pretty rare combination.

    They also take up a lot of space, are not inexpensive to build, are more convenient if they are close to existing intermittent power sources (and ideally demand) so as to avoid the need to build out transmission capacity, and are far from maintenance free.

    Plus they often involve having to compulsory purchase order a bunch of people's property, because the chance that all the space is going to belong to a single landowner is really small.

    The pumped storage schemes I mentioned in the Highlands use existing lochs (Ness and Awe) as the lower reservoir. You need to build the upper reservoirs, which are about 1km wide, on the mountain tops, land has no economic value. Drop is 500m. They are close to existing power lines that are being upgraded to handle additional wind farms. They are definitely expensive to build, but on current estimates a fraction of Hinckley C and probably more useful.
    You ask @malcolmg what he thinks of despoiling those landscapes.
    Technically, they're quite attractive...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,255
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    I dunno. I think that would be very unpopular and wouldn't last long in most democracies.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,096
    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the "facilitating immigration" huffing on the last thread, I note that the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

    As it is the courts, and not the government which sentence individuals, "two tier Keir" is a pretty dumb comment in this case.

    Let's see what happens with the French investigation, which will possess the evidence regarding the fatalities.

    I think the idea is that Sir Keir should be making personal interventions to overrule the courts and impose his own sentences.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 32,161
    edited June 3
    ...
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    Losing the Bridge would be a horror show for Putin.

    Maybe half a dozen Taurus missiles will finish it off.

    I may be misremembering, but I thought I'd heard Ukraine planning FOUR high profile assaults?
    Blimey.
    That's the head of the SBU ?
    https://x.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1929879402432610724
    The dog looks scary too. I wonder which one could tear a head off with just their teeth quickest.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986
    Man comes to the US from Lebanon. Starts out delivering pizzas, becomes a Nobel winning neuroscientist. Trump freezes his funding, he gets an email from China offering to move his lab “any city, any university I want" with guaranteed funding for 20 years.

    What are we doing?

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1929868372705235253
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,066
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    Many people think there ought to be a contributory element to welfare etc. So you can only claim after you have paid in enough. I seem to recall some countries give people made redundant different amounts of support depending on what their salary (and thus their tax) was.

    There are for sure a lot of myths out there, but I'd imagine if you have been on the waiting list for a council house for a decade and you saw a recent immigrant getting ahead in the queue, you would be annoyed. Does this happen? Is it a myth?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 55,554

    Nigelb said:

    Regarding the "facilitating immigration" huffing on the last thread, I note that the maximum penalty is life imprisonment.

    As it is the courts, and not the government which sentence individuals, "two tier Keir" is a pretty dumb comment in this case.

    Let's see what happens with the French investigation, which will possess the evidence regarding the fatalities.

    I think the idea is that Sir Keir should be making personal interventions to overrule the courts and impose his own sentences.
    I'm afraid Sir Keir has invited this with his authoritarian posturing. "My government" this and "my government" that. He acts as though he owns the place.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
    You really don't get this, do you?

    You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.

    This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.

    [PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,066
    Nigelb said:

    Man comes to the US from Lebanon. Starts out delivering pizzas, becomes a Nobel winning neuroscientist. Trump freezes his funding, he gets an email from China offering to move his lab “any city, any university I want" with guaranteed funding for 20 years.

    What are we doing?

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1929868372705235253

    20 years? He's 57 now, his best years are behind him. You need to poach the 30 year olds.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,224
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    This is the cost of my electricity right now. It's been negative most of the day, but now we're into peak hours it's just tipped up to 10p /kwH. Hence why I boiled the kettle half an hour ago:
    https://agile.octopushome.net/dashboard

    I thought this would be a good tariff to be on: actually it is, but not THAT good: in summer, when I am generating a lot of my own electricity through solar panels anyway it is cheap, and in winter when I am not it is expensive. And the times when I am generating the most correspond when the time when import prices and export prices are both lowest. I am in the fortunate position that most of my panels face just south of west, so I am still generating quite a lot during the 4-7pm peak, but even so: I need to find a way of using all this free but unexportable electricity. (My solution so far: hot tub (only an inflatable one; I'm not some plutocrat)).

    Solar panels are great, but for saving money what you really want is a battery (I have a 5kw battery - I should have got a 10kw one).
    I’m on intelligent octopus because I couldn’t get the maths to work on agile
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 54,899

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    Many people think there ought to be a contributory element to welfare etc. So you can only claim after you have paid in enough. I seem to recall some countries give people made redundant different amounts of support depending on what their salary (and thus their tax) was.

    There are for sure a lot of myths out there, but I'd imagine if you have been on the waiting list for a council house for a decade and you saw a recent immigrant getting ahead in the queue, you would be annoyed. Does this happen? Is it a myth?
    What actually happened was - in many places council housing was allocated on need, strictly. So having multiple young children put you at the top of the list, automatically.

    So an immigrant with 4 young children would be automatically the top of the list.

    IIRC this has been changed now, in most areas.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482
    edited June 3

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
    You really don't get this, do you?

    You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.

    This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.

    [PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
    I am afraid you’re just simply wrong. You’re lying to yourself to justify your hatred and in the process self-limiting yourself.

    Believe it if you want but it won’t do you any favours other than building pointless resentment for absolutely no reason.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,883

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    I dunno. I think that would be very unpopular and wouldn't last long in most democracies.
    True. Surge pricing from Uber/Ticketmaster etc is deeply unpopular. I think you'd need to water it down a bit. Do we know how many people have gone for Octopus Agile? Even that's got a £1 limit per kWh.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
    But that further reinforces the point, it doesn't diminish it. That's equivalent to 11 Dinorwigs being built over the next decade, even without the fact that vehicles are equivalent to 200 more Dinorwigs.

    In which case, why spend billions on a new Dinorwig? Its redundant.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,255

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Met for lunch with an ex-colleague with whom I shared many a laugh and joke in the office over a number of years.

    He is now squarely in the Reform camp - his line is not just the traditional "boats" but the notion the indigenous population (and, to be fair, never said "White", just British) were being disadvantaged in terms of welfare and housing provision by migrants "coming over here, taking every handout and living off our taxes".

    This is a refrain I've heard before - there was a scintilla of admiration for "the Romanians, they grew up in a Communist society and know how to play the system. They come over here and we're wide open and they take everything". On the assumption, that's everything to which they are entitled, yes. Perhaps the issue, as we saw with winter fuel payments, is British people aren't taking the things to which they are entitled either through ignorance or a mistaken sense of pride.

    The illegals have to go through a process but the legal migrants do all they need to do and ask for everything to which they are entitled. If they are considered British citizens and have entered the country legally and have been given permanent permission to stay, do they not have the right to certain benefits or to register with a GP?

    Many people think there ought to be a contributory element to welfare etc. So you can only claim after you have paid in enough. I seem to recall some countries give people made redundant different amounts of support depending on what their salary (and thus their tax) was.

    There are for sure a lot of myths out there, but I'd imagine if you have been on the waiting list for a council house for a decade and you saw a recent immigrant getting ahead in the queue, you would be annoyed. Does this happen? Is it a myth?
    It will happen because the supply of council housing is so limited that it has to be prioritised for those most likely to otherwise end up homeless, or who would be particularly vulnerable if homeless, or who are currently living in unsuitable accommodation.

    People who have been able to house themselves in the housing market for a decade while they wait for a council house are going to be seen as a lower risk of imminent homelessness than a refugee with poor English and no income.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,224

    Nigelb said:

    Man comes to the US from Lebanon. Starts out delivering pizzas, becomes a Nobel winning neuroscientist. Trump freezes his funding, he gets an email from China offering to move his lab “any city, any university I want" with guaranteed funding for 20 years.

    What are we doing?

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1929868372705235253

    20 years? He's 57 now, his best years are behind him. You need to poach the 30 year olds.
    I think the argument is that one / some of those 30 year olds are in his lab
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    Not entirely.
    There are a number of utility scale battery storage projects, totalling over 100GWh, in some sort of planning:
    https://www.renewableuk.com/energypulse/blog/battery-storage-capacity-in-the-uk-the-state-of-the-pipeline/

    Presumably quite a few businesses think it worthwhile.

    Cars will of course contribute an enormousl amount of storage over the next decade, but most of that won't be dispatchable.
    I get the case for battery storage attached to a wind farm (or solar) or whatever: but I think the business case for dedicated battery storage away from either supply or demand is pretty weak. (Or rather, it's pretty fleeting, because as we add vehicles and home storage to the network, then the need for this kind of on grid backup diminishes sharply.)
    Attached to demand makes sense as much as attached to supply.

    For a heavy industrial consumer of electricity having storage that means electricity can be stored when effectively free would be worthwhile.

    Which is why I expect to see a resurgence in heavy industry in this country as we continue to transition to renewables. Bountiful cheap energy is the future.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 63,506

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    You’d need a smart meter for that but @Luckyguy1983 thinks they’re woke
    Woke people don't get Woke.

    That's you, btw.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,482

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    You’d need a smart meter for that but @Luckyguy1983 thinks they’re woke
    Woke people don't get Woke.

    That's you, btw.
    I guess I do have a smart meter
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 10,883

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
    You really don't get this, do you?

    You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.

    This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.

    [PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
    Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    Nigelb said:

    Man comes to the US from Lebanon. Starts out delivering pizzas, becomes a Nobel winning neuroscientist. Trump freezes his funding, he gets an email from China offering to move his lab “any city, any university I want" with guaranteed funding for 20 years.

    What are we doing?

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1929868372705235253

    Making China the undisputed super-power by the end of the century is what.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 77,986

    Nigelb said:

    Man comes to the US from Lebanon. Starts out delivering pizzas, becomes a Nobel winning neuroscientist. Trump freezes his funding, he gets an email from China offering to move his lab “any city, any university I want" with guaranteed funding for 20 years.

    What are we doing?

    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/1929868372705235253

    20 years? He's 57 now, his best years are behind him. You need to poach the 30 year olds.
    Not if he knows how to put together a research team.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,128
    edited June 3

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    I dunno. I think that would be very unpopular and wouldn't last long in most democracies.
    You can do it now with octopus, you just set your dishwasher/washing machine to start in x hours which all new ones can do. Just like you set your car to charge when octopus have spare capacity on the grid. The game changer will be when 2 way EV chargers are available again and you can run your house off the car battery, then charge the car again when there's spare capacity. The tech is there but the chargers have been taken off the market.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 24,275

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
    You really don't get this, do you?

    You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.

    This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.

    [PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
    I've never championed this stuff and its never afflicted my career. I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.

    In the past year I've had invitations to Easter events, Christmas events, Ramadan ones, Iftar (sp?), Diwali, Halloween, Valentine's and plenty of other stuff. Just pick and choose what you're interested in and ignore any you're not . . . which since I'm not especially keen on engaging in events at work means I tend to ignore everything but I have no objection to those who want to do stuff doing it.

    Pride is just one of a plethora of stuff that happens. Get over it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,014
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Reportedly-"Ukrainian sea drones are now crashing into the defensive structures around the Kerch Bridge to clear the path for subsequent sea drones to reach the bridge itself."
    https://x.com/WarMonitor3/status/1929882892861116902

    Losing the Bridge would be a horror show for Putin.

    Maybe half a dozen Taurus missiles will finish it off.

    I may be misremembering, but I thought I'd heard Ukraine planning FOUR high profile assaults?
    Blimey.
    That's the head of the SBU ?
    https://x.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1929879402432610724
    No.

    The dog is...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,249
    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "DW Politics
    @dw_politics

    JUST IN: A German court rules government's move to turn away asylum seekers at border is unlawful- in a blow to Chancellor Merz."

    https://x.com/dw_politics/status/1929550116957860323

    The system of international law/human rights either needs to be changed or it will be overturned entirely.
    The legal/activist class across Europe are like the monks and priests of the Catholic Church in northern and Western Europe circa 1500. Parasitic, doctrinaire, vain, myopic and greedy. And you can feel the resentment building and building. A Reformation is coming to sweep them away and it might be violent
    That's a great analogy.

    But it goes wider. Full on Pride shite at work today with some events stretching into August. A queer quiz. A gay tapestry. Marches all over the place. A fans for trans social.

    Who wants this shit?
    I am totally ungay, but your workplace sounds like fun.

    Did you realise the company was this "right on" when you joined?
    All companies are like this now. All of them.

    The only acceptable response is to cheer and amplify it. To do anything else risks you being labelled as a homophobe, and we all know what that means.

    So, this absurd foghorning goes on - despite most people not really caring and being somewhat fed up with it all.
    That’s not my experience at double digit organisations across both engineering and law. You can delete DEI emails. You can refuse to put pronouns in email signatures. You don’t have to attend pride events. Nobody cares. It’s all in your head.

    I do all of those things and nobody thinks I am a homophobe because, well, I’m not.
    No, it's not all in my head - this is simple denialism by you.

    It's on every call I go to, and I have to listen to it all.

    You said upthread you loved this stuff, and now you say you don't do any of it.

    Which one is it?
    Where I've worked there's emails to 'Pride' events . . . and emails inviting to football games, basketball games, chess clubs, book clubs, craft clubs, and plenty of other things.

    The general thing with social emails is to pick the ones you're interested in and ignore the rest.

    So what if some people in your work want to do Pride activities? How is that affecting you whatsoever? If others are playing 5-a-side is that affecting you? Don't hear you moaning about that, but I imagine that's happening too?

    If Pride is the only social stuff being organised, then it sounds like a pretty crappy place to work, but if its one amongst many, then why have a bee in your bonnet about what others choose to do?
    You really don't get this, do you?

    You have to be seen to champion, echo and be enthusiastic about this stuff, from a career perspective, or else you are suspect. It's a required belief. There is no choice.

    This is the entire problem with Wokery. Which people like you and @Gallowgate cannot understand.

    [PS. I don't have people talking to me about 5-a-side on every call for every day for a full month every year, and requiring me to applaud it or I'm seen as bigot. It's not remotely comparable.]
    Why don't you resign? I've got friends who feel like this about Gaza and have turned down good jobs at arms companies as a result.
    And go where? If you're in an industry which supplies the public sector, there aren't any companies which aren't like this. Because it tends to be a condition of supplying the public sector.
    Indeed, IME, companies which supply the public sector - whose business depends on them being woke - are rather more aggressively woke than the public sector itself - most of whom are just going through the motions.
  • TazTaz Posts: 18,750
    I’ve avoided a smart meter, not due to woke or any other shite like that, due to their reported unreliability.

    Are they okay now, is it worth getting one ?

    Been considering it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,255
    Dopermean said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    TimS said:

    £-28 per mwh electricity price currently. Another day where our lack of storage, grid connections, electrified heavy industrial base and interconnector capacity means we’re leaving money on the table.

    I don't understand why we haven't built more hydro-electric reservoirs over the last 30 years which could be used to store energy.
    Because they're nosebleedingly expensive in relation to the power generated, in most cases.

    If you dammed a very large Scottish valley, then it might be cost effective, but the (by a very long way) most attractive location for a mega project has been repeatedly vetoed (for understandable reasons).
    This is an amazing project

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
    It is, but I doubt anything similar will be built again as it will very soon be cheaper to replicate its capabilities with a large battery storage facility.

    I believe it cost around £425m, forty years ago. It would be nearer £1.5bn today, I think ?
    Large battery storage isn't even that necessary when we're transitioning to lots of small battery storage.

    Dinorwig's 9.1 GWh of storage is the equivalent of 140,000 vehicles with a 65 kWh battery, or the equivalent of 0.4% of the vehicles on the road.

    Why spend billions on that, when we're transitioning anyway?

    The amount of storage we will have in this country in a few years time utterly dwarfs anything imaginable today.
    This is also spot on.
    On the couple of occasions over the last few decades where there's been an issue with the fuel supply for domestic motor vehicles, we always see cases of people dangerously storing fuel in their sheds, etc.

    This is because in a situation of scarcity people do not behave economically rationally, they hoard scarce resources rather than sell them.

    The same would be true of fully charged car batteries. If there's a high pressure forecast for a week, and even if a fully charged battery would normally last a person for a month of driving, rather than sell their excess energy for a profit, most people will want to hang onto it, just in case.

    That is ultimately why there will be a market for grid scale storage owned by people willing to sell their energy at a profit when energy is scarce.
    With that said... if power was properly priced, then people would make economically rational decisions
    about when to use it too.

    If it costs you £5 to run the dishwasher now, then maybe you'll postpone it.
    I dunno. I think that would be very unpopular and wouldn't last long in most democracies.
    You can do it now with octopus, you just set your dishwasher/washing machine to start in x hours which all new ones can do. Just like you set your car to charge
    People are used to the convenience of being able to use electricity when they want. A few geeks will enjoy playing the system and looking at the numbers, but most people will see it as a nuisance and a step backwards.

    Household chores are enough of a hassle without having to plan them with the aid of the weather forecast. That's why people pay for a dishwasher, or a robot vacuum cleaner/lawnmower. They don't want to micromanage the whole thing.
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