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The seven-way is a party leaders' debate, offering the opportunity for different points of view to be heard. The two-way is a prospective PMs' debate. Or something like that - what do you want, logic? This is politics.Scott_P said:Nicola is not a candidate at the GE. Why should she appear in a GE debate?
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Rumoured that Miliband will refuse to attend the debates unless the Bus Pass Elvis Party is there. He needs someone there he thinks he can beat....0
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In Borgen they had 8 way debates...
...so still room for Yorkshire First to park their bus at the last podium.0 -
I wonder if only the head to head will go ahead (ahem). In all probability it is going to be one of those two who is PM after the election, so it would be reasonable to have them debate.antifrank said:
This proposal does seem ridiculously biased to the Conservatives. It minimises the damage that Nigel Farage will cause to the Conservatives' right flank while maximising the damage caused to Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
At least Ed Miliband gets his head to head with David Cameron on this proposal.0 -
Actually we are the big losers.Richard_Nabavi said:The LibDems are the big losers in this.
What was a sensible and engaging idea - debates between the political parties - has now become a farce.
It's a shame and that's not to say I have an answer, or have even seen the criteria for inclusion which ruled out the Greens to start with.
But I feel our (Dave's?) clever-cleverness has contributed to a diminution in the political process.0 -
Plaid laying into Ed on the NHS, Dave smilingantifrank said:
*snipped gloating*Pulpstar said:
You're right, especially since the SNP landing the landslide would net me wonga. The SNP must be includedantifrank said:
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.
If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
UKIP laying into Ed on opening the borders, Dave smiling
SNP laying into Ed for Labours record in Scotland, Dave smiling
Greens stripping the 'nutty' left from Labour, Dave smiling
Greens stripping the NOTA crowd from UKIP and the LDs, Dave smiling
Everyone laying into Nick for being a turncoat, Dave smiling
Farage may pick up a few Tories, but still puts Dave streets ahead on balance.0 -
It does appear to have the hallmarks of George Osborne's brilliance all over it.RobD said:
Master strategist.. anyone?TheScreamingEagles said:Dave truly have played this debate malarkey stunningly well.
Got the Greens surging, diluting UKIP in a 7 way.
And to think people said he was frit, he's rather awesome at this bitches.0 -
Hello and welcome. Your logic is correct - though you need to distinguish between level pegging on votes and level pegging on seats.With_nowt_taken_out said:Hello first post but have been a lurker for years.
If the Tories and Labour nationally are roughly level pegging, doesn't logic dictate that since Labour will be ahead in Wales and Scotland (even allowing for a SNP landslide, all polls show Labour still way ahead of the Tories in Scotland), that the Tories have to therefore be ahead in England?0 -
Neil,
"Forced sterilisation so they cant pass their prejudices on to a new generation seems about right to me."
Worth considering. When I'm dictator (assuming Mr Dancer hasn't got there before me), I shall bring it in for all wrong thinkers. Hmm ... the Greens may be first in the queue, though.
Evil chuckle.
I'd be happy to vote for anyone Jewish to be Prime Minister. At least, they'll be careful with tax-payers money.
See, stereotypes can be complimentary.0 -
You snipped the bit I liked best.Anorak said:
Plaid laying into Ed on the NHS, Dave smilingantifrank said:
*snipped gloating*Pulpstar said:
You're right, especially since the SNP landing the landslide would net me wonga. The SNP must be includedantifrank said:
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.
If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
UKIP laying into Ed on opening the borders, Dave smiling
SNP laying into Ed for Labours record in Scotland, Dave smiling
Greens stripping the 'nutty' left from Labour, Dave smiling
Greens stripping the NOTA crowd from UKIP and the LDs, Dave smiling
Everyone laying into Nick for being a turncoat, Dave smiling
Farage may pick up a few Tories, but still puts Dave streets ahead on balance.0 -
@TheScreamingEagles
Looks like OGH is going to lose some beer money?
Unless of course Dave thinks so many is undemocratic?0 -
Now, how does Ed get out of this one? They are still not going to happen.FrancisUrquhart said:New offer from the broadcasters:
BBC & ITV: one seven-way debate each with Tories, Labour, LibDems, Greens, UKIP, SNP and Plaid Cymru
Sky & C4: Cameron v Miliband head to head
Two debates with 7 candidates, one with two…
God the 7 candidate ones will be horrific...just one massive shouting match / no time to really get your point across. Maybe that is what Cameron's wants?0 -
UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....0
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Anyone who can get on with Paddy Power should hit 'max' on Edinburgh South, 5-2 still (SNP)0
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How many seats will the SNP win from 4th ?
Could be quite a few.0 -
Thank you for that intelligent comment. Very useful.antifrank said:
Having just plonked another £500 on the SNP in various constituencies this morning, this news gives me great joy.Pulpstar said:
You're right, especially since the SNP landing the landslide would net me wonga. The SNP must be includedantifrank said:
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.
If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
If you think 8.4% is tiny, let me interest you in this interest-bearing account I have here ...Socrates said:
Not in population terms, which is what matters in a democracy.Carnyx said:
Tiny corner? Scotland is about 1/3 of the entire UK!Socrates said:I support the inclusion of the Greens, but why on Earth should the SNP and Plaid Cymru be included in UK-wide debates? They don't stand outside of tiny corners of the country.
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I'm sure if the rules are changed then the Greens will be quite happy to put up Lucas, the SNP Salmond and UKIP Carswell.Richard_Nabavi said:
The seven-way is a party leaders' debate, offering the opportunity for different points of view to be heard. The two-way is a prospective PMs' debate. Or something like that - what do you want, logic? This is politics.Scott_P said:Nicola is not a candidate at the GE. Why should she appear in a GE debate?
OK Maybe not UKIP Carswell.0 -
That, from the Conservative viewpoint, will be the very most satisfactory part of this proposal. UKIP could not be excluded from the debates given their poll ratings and OFCOM status as a major party. But this format minimises that status, dilutes it with lots of other voices who will be making points that are strategically helpful to the Conservatives and treats them effectively as part of the electoral shrapnel.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
Nor can UKIP easily object to this proposal, since they effectively would be having to argue to exclude the voices of others, which is an unattractive position for any party with only two MPs to take.
The risk in this proposal for the Conservatives relates mainly to the last debate between Ed Miliband and David Cameron. If Ed Miliband exceeds public expectations there, David Cameron has a big problem.0 -
After the latest PMQ's rout I think Ed needs his head-to-head examining. How can he fill two debates saying tax cuts for millionaires (when Cameron points out they are BOTH millionaires) and the Bedroom "Tax". They might as well empty chair Ed if there are questions on the economy...antifrank said:
This proposal does seem ridiculously biased to the Conservatives. It minimises the damage that Nigel Farage will cause to the Conservatives' right flank while maximising the damage caused to Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
At least Ed Miliband gets his head to head with David Cameron on this proposal.
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I suspect the pendulum has been swung far enough to drag the Tories back on board, while allowing a shift back to a 5 way debate replacing one of the 7's (after the next round of objections from Labour). This would appease EdM and it would be very difficult for Dave to object to such a 'small' change.rottenborough said:
Now, how does Ed get out of this one? They are still not going to happen.FrancisUrquhart said:New offer from the broadcasters:
BBC & ITV: one seven-way debate each with Tories, Labour, LibDems, Greens, UKIP, SNP and Plaid Cymru
Sky & C4: Cameron v Miliband head to head
Two debates with 7 candidates, one with two…
God the 7 candidate ones will be horrific...just one massive shouting match / no time to really get your point across. Maybe that is what Cameron's wants?0 -
Correct. But it's a risk well worth taking, and in any case it can't be avoided.antifrank said:The risk in this proposal for the Conservatives relates mainly to the last debate between Ed Miliband and David Cameron. If Ed Miliband exceeds public expectations there, David Cameron has a big problem.
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I agree about justice but what you are opting for instead of the law of the land is the law of gossip, tittle-tattle and inuendo - it's rue by the Sally Bercow's of this world. That really should be left in the gutter where it came from.Tissue_Price said:
Justice delayed is justice denied. I have no time for the mob but it is not hard to see why no-one trusts the Establishment on these matters.felix said:
What we are dealing with is mob rule by the twitterati - who deal in inuendo, nods, winks, etc.Tissue_Price said:
I see where you are coming from on this, but on the other hand it's quite hard to maintain that belief when the authorities seem to have had little interest in "proving otherwise" in a number of cases over the last 50 years.felix said:
Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
So are we dealing in cynicism, or reasonable inference coupled with a reasonable belief in cover-ups?
In equally bad taste, I saw a tweet saying that Leon Brittan's cancer was as "convenient" as Prince Andrew's forthcoming skiing accident.
If there are cover-ups let the law reveal the truth and while we wait for that this is a very good year to be remembering Magna carta, etc0 -
That's a step up for UKIP. Currently they are 1 seat behind them.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
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I hope inclusion in the debates doesnt end the surge in Green party membership. It was some week, approaching 56,000 members now.0
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I still think that the debates not happening is the outcome that best delivers for the Tories, given that they have the war chest to bombard the voters with stuff. The debates nullifies this to a large extent. However, the 7-way is a decent alternative outcome if they have to happen.0
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It's more likely that Miliband will think it undemocratic.Smarmeron said:@TheScreamingEagles
Looks like OGH is going to lose some beer money?
Unless of course Dave thinks so many is undemocratic?0 -
That's exactly right. Cameron has two modes: winging it, and the (verbal) fighting comeback. If he's complacent and tries to wing it out of belief in his own propaganda about Ed Miliband's uselessness, he could be in for a nasty shock.antifrank said:
That, from the Conservative viewpoint, will be the very most satisfactory part of this proposal. UKIP could not be excluded from the debates given their poll ratings and OFCOM status as a major party. But this format minimises that status, dilutes it with lots of other voices who will be making points that are strategically helpful to the Conservatives and treats them effectively as part of the electoral shrapnel.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
Nor can UKIP easily object to this proposal, since they effectively would be having to argue to exclude the voices of others, which is an unattractive position for any party with only two MPs to take.
The risk in this proposal for the Conservatives relates mainly to the last debate between Ed Miliband and David Cameron. If Ed Miliband exceeds public expectations there, David Cameron has a big problem.0 -
Euro falling through the floor.
Bloke sells two bed in Ealing, buys Elysee Palace...0 -
The law of the land has clearly failed. Except, I might note, in the case of Sally Bercow, who got what was coming to her.felix said:
I agree about justice but what you are opting for instead of the law of the land is the law of gossip, tittle-tattle and inuendo - it's rue by the Sally Bercow's of this world. That really should be left in the gutter where it came from.Tissue_Price said:
Justice delayed is justice denied. I have no time for the mob but it is not hard to see why no-one trusts the Establishment on these matters.felix said:
What we are dealing with is mob rule by the twitterati - who deal in inuendo, nods, winks, etc.Tissue_Price said:
I see where you are coming from on this, but on the other hand it's quite hard to maintain that belief when the authorities seem to have had little interest in "proving otherwise" in a number of cases over the last 50 years.felix said:
Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
So are we dealing in cynicism, or reasonable inference coupled with a reasonable belief in cover-ups?
In equally bad taste, I saw a tweet saying that Leon Brittan's cancer was as "convenient" as Prince Andrew's forthcoming skiing accident.
If there are cover-ups let the law reveal the truth and while we wait for that this is a very good year to be remembering Magna carta, etc
It's all very unsatisfactory, I agree.0 -
Neil said:
That's a step up for UKIP. Currently they are 1 seat behind them.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
Neil said:
That's a step up for UKIP. Currently they are 1 seat behind them.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
For a pimple on the bum of Westminster politics, they should be grateful for their inclusion with the big boys.
As should Plaid Cymru.
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@xtophercook: This could be the election where the DUP finally breaks out of its N Ireland heartland. #debates0
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Afternoon all and it seems the bad taste merchants are out in force on Twitter repeating inaccurate comments about the late Leon Brittan. My personal experience of him while in Margaret Thatcher's government was of a charming, excessively polite gentleman.
I see it looks as Ed Bland will have to cope with 3 female left wing party leaders if the debates go ahead. The Greens, PC and SNP are all now to be included.
Re TNS, if they are now saying the 2 main parties are neck and neck, in reality the Tories must be around 2-5% ahead. Looking back at TNS polls and the actual results, they vastly overstate Labour and understate the Tories.0 -
So I wonder how many idiots are going to end up getting sued by over excitedly tweeting today?0
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And the unspun down to earth female stormed to victory... Maybe Australia is about to get its own back for Julia Gillard.SandyRentool said:In Borgen they had 8 way debates...
...so still room for Yorkshire First to park their bus at the last podium.0 -
Wouldn’t be too surprised to see Plaid Cymru pick up another two seats in May. They did extremely well in Ynys Mon in the Assembly by-election, although I know Albert Owen has a following, and I wonder how the drop-off in student support will affect the LD in Ceredigon. The latter’s a seat which doesn’t like the Tories.Neil said:
That's a step up for UKIP. Currently they are 1 seat behind them.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
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@JamieRoss7: Anyone else fancy a go? RT @DUPleader: I will be writing to BBC and ITV to identify why the DUP is not included in new debate format.0
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Didn't one of the Republican primary debates have 12 people in it?0
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If Plaid Cymru and UKIP get to attend, shouldn't the Shinners demand an empty chair?0
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Re the shoal of minnows preparing to devour Labour, I said at the time of the AV Referendum. "Be careful what you wish for..."antifrank said:
This proposal does seem ridiculously biased to the Conservatives. It minimises the damage that Nigel Farage will cause to the Conservatives' right flank while maximising the damage caused to Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
At least Ed Miliband gets his head to head with David Cameron on this proposal.
The head-to-head sounds like a sop to AV, actually. And undemocratic.
What happens if Farage is in second place in the polls at the time of the head-to-head?0 -
The early primary debates tend to have a lot of candidates. They work perfectly well. Always more entertaining than the Presidential debates.TheScreamingEagles said:Didn't one of the Republican primary debates have 12 people in it?
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This really is great news for Cameron.
The key thing about the seven person debate is it won't be a debate - there won't be scope for any interaction. Each leader will basically get approx eight chances to talk for one minute.
They should each just learn about eight one minute speeches.
This is also very bad news for the Lib Dems - it drastically reduces their status. Remember under the previous proposal they were in a three person debate without UKIP. This will make the Lib Dems look like also rans.
This is a massive subliminal message to voters - downgrading the status of the Lib Dems. I think Clegg may well object - he'll argue he should be added to the Cameron / Miliband debate.0 -
@ChrisGibsonNews: Labour source "We said we'd let the broadcasters decide who is included and we will accept that" #TVDebates0
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It may not be good for Lab and LD but there is little for the Tories to lose and a lot to gain. I am not sure this would be that good for Sturgeon. The notion that only the SNP is capable of standing up for Scotland could be exposed. The benefit that the SNP might be able to contribute anything worthwhile as a minority in Westminster could be exposed.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
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Set a date and say the head-to-head is whoever is 1&2 at the end of that day. Should add to the entertainment value of the election.RodCrosby said:
Re the shoal of minnows preparing to devour Labour, I said at the time of the AV Referendum. "Be careful what you wish for..."antifrank said:
This proposal does seem ridiculously biased to the Conservatives. It minimises the damage that Nigel Farage will cause to the Conservatives' right flank while maximising the damage caused to Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
At least Ed Miliband gets his head to head with David Cameron on this proposal.
The head-to-head sounds like a sop to AV, actually. And undemocratic.
What happens if Farage is in second place in the polls at the time of the head-to-head?
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They did briefly have an MP in Basingstoke.TheScreamingEagles said:@xtophercook: This could be the election where the DUP finally breaks out of its N Ireland heartland. #debates
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Indeed.Easterross said:Re TNS, if they are now saying the 2 main parties are neck and neck, in reality the Tories must be around 2-5% ahead. Looking back at TNS polls and the actual results, they vastly overstate Labour and understate the Tories.
Applying their Euro Error to the base scores you end up with Tory 34 Lab 28.
Funnily enough, doing it to Opinium, Yougov and Comres we again end up with the Tories on c. 34% . Labour end on 31-32.
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The voters might get a message that the UK ( and their well being ) is in danger of going to hell in a handcart and vote for the devil it knows.MikeL said:This really is great news for Cameron.
The key thing about the seven person debate is it won't be a debate - there won't be scope for any interaction. Each leader will basically get approx eight chances to talk for one minute.
...
This is a massive subliminal message to voters - downgrading the status of the Lib Dems. I think Clegg may well object - he'll argue he should be added to the Cameron / Miliband debate.0 -
It's hard to see why. Will he even be the LD leader for any length of time after the GE?MikeL said:I think Clegg may well object - he'll argue he should be added to the Cameron / Miliband debate.
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They don't call him any such thing. You may but you don't count!!Socrates said:
He'll still try to run away. They don't call him Cameron the Cowardly for nothing!Tissue_Price said:
Suspiciously like exactly what Cameron asked for.TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
I assume Farron is readying his troops for movement...TheWatcher said:
It's hard to see why. Will he even be the LD leader for any length of time after the GE?MikeL said:I think Clegg may well object - he'll argue he should be added to the Cameron / Miliband debate.
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I've seen several 10-way debates in Denmark. They work just fine with good moderation, as they force the leaders to concentrate on what they're offering, since they're no time to attack everyone else. Miliband will have a generalised debate followed by a 2-way in which he has a good chance of exceeding expectations.SandyRentool said:In Borgen they had 8 way debates...
...so still room for Yorkshire First to park their bus at the last podium.
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Any one mentioning, or even alluding to, Andrew Hunter should be summararily exiled to ConHomeJohnLilburne said:
They did briefly have an MP in Basingstoke.TheScreamingEagles said:@xtophercook: This could be the election where the DUP finally breaks out of its N Ireland heartland. #debates
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Key issue is timing and debate order.
Cameron will not want the final debate only one week before the GE.
Key question will be when is the head to head. If the head to head is last that's high risk for Cameron (and Miliband).
If Cameron wants to minimise debate risk he must ensure the head to head isn't last. It could go in the middle but if anything I think he'll favour it going first.
Broadcasters and other parties will argue head to head should go in middle. Minor parties will want their voice heard early - to get momentum - and at the end just before people vote.0 -
I would have thought it was the mention of Basingrad that would merit exile.Charles said:
Any one mentioning, or even alluding to, Andrew Hunter should be summararily exiled to ConHomeJohnLilburne said:
They did briefly have an MP in Basingstoke.TheScreamingEagles said:@xtophercook: This could be the election where the DUP finally breaks out of its N Ireland heartland. #debates
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Come on. It's not that the LibDems have been downgraded. It's that others have been up-graded!MikeL said:This really is great news for Cameron.
The key thing about the seven person debate is it won't be a debate - there won't be scope for any interaction. Each leader will basically get approx eight chances to talk for one minute.
They should each just learn about eight one minute speeches.
This is also very bad news for the Lib Dems - it drastically reduces their status. Remember under the previous proposal they were in a three person debate without UKIP. This will make the Lib Dems look like also rans.
This is a massive subliminal message to voters - downgrading the status of the Lib Dems. I think Clegg may well object - he'll argue he should be added to the Cameron / Miliband debate.
The upside is that the LDs should hold more seats the more fragmented the vote is, the wheels will finally fall off FPTP, and the newbies all get to say:-
"I agree with Nick" [on PR at least]0 -
Will it simplify to girls vs boys?Neil said:The 5th, 6th and 7th leaders invited are all non English women well to the left of the four other leaders (presuming that it will be the England and Wales party leader that represents the Greens).
I think it would be hard for seven distinct positions to be created. It will simplify in one way or another, and the visual girls vs boys would seem to also align with some of the political questions too.0 -
I don't think UKIP will be disappointed. Having Farage involved in any sort of debate is way better for them then no debate at all.antifrank said:
That, from the Conservative viewpoint, will be the very most satisfactory part of this proposal. UKIP could not be excluded from the debates given their poll ratings and OFCOM status as a major party. But this format minimises that status, dilutes it with lots of other voices who will be making points that are strategically helpful to the Conservatives and treats them effectively as part of the electoral shrapnel.MarqueeMark said:UKIP on a par with Plaid Cymru. You have to laugh....
Nor can UKIP easily object to this proposal, since they effectively would be having to argue to exclude the voices of others, which is an unattractive position for any party with only two MPs to take.
The risk in this proposal for the Conservatives relates mainly to the last debate between Ed Miliband and David Cameron. If Ed Miliband exceeds public expectations there, David Cameron has a big problem.
Traditionally, incumbent PMs have run a mile from debating the leader of the Opposition for fear of the debate putting them on an equal level.
I think you can find merits and demerits in the proposals for all three of the parties that currently have the highest poll scores. It's a clear loss of status for the Lib Dems, and a boost for the other three.0 -
Seven (or possibly 8 if you include the DUP, and if them, why not SDLP?) podiums is too many. Four debates, three with three, drawn by lot ...... like an angling competition...... it’s a fishing for votes exercise ....... with half way through one with the three main leaders.
Of course you’d have to load the lots .... couldn’t have the three minors e.g. Plaid, SDLP and Green, So one of LD Lab Con plus any two of the others.0 -
The proposed debates sound like the proverbial dog's breakfast. I certainly wouldn't watch them.
Being grilled by Andrew Neill, a forensic and well-prepared interviewer, one on one would be far more interesting.0
