politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » To mark the massive Central European Bank’s massive QE prog
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@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.0
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It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
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I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.0 -
This is a really good point. Another product of the lack of an English parliament is that England will lack governance despite having an internal majority, just because of the way the Scots vote. This is extremely unfair.OblitusSumMe said:
The obvious solution is an English Parliament - which either of Labour or Conservatives would be much more likely to win a majority in without Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish MPs to complicate matters - and a Grand Unionist Coalition at Westminster to stop the SNP playing silly games.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't see why he thinks that's a big stategic mistake. The SNP are not interested in the Westminster government being able to function effectively - rather the reverse, in fact. The more trouble they can cause, the better from their point of view.dr_spyn said:Nick Sutton retweeted
The World at One @BBCWorldatOne 1m1 minute ago
Labour MP John Woodcock: SNP have made "a big strategic mistake" by making Trident a red line - "no Labour govt will deal on this" #wato
As Neil points out, the SNP don't need to do a deal with Labour. Labour might need to do a deal with the SNP, though. The terms of any such deal are unlikely to be palatable to Labour (or indeed the country).0 -
It can seem that way to you all you like, it still doesn't actually measure it though.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
If I asked a sample "Do you like oysters for breakfast" and 10% said no, you could conclude those people didn't like oysters, or they did like oysters but not for breakfast, or they don't like shellfish of any description, or they don't eat breakfast of any description, or any number of intermediate positions. The first might suit your prejudice to claim its the case, but its not what the survey is actually measuring.0 -
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.0 -
KATG summed this up (name abbreviated because it's not safe for work):TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RleE--HDBiU
The video isn't really safe for work either, though it's about the most anodyne song he's ever performed.0 -
At least he's not a paediatrician.TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
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In London as all the rich Europeans get their money out of euros, into a proper currency and buy housesDavidL said:
True. Time to get on the property market abroad?Charles said:
It's had a massive impact on asset price inflationDavidL said:
No, but he decided when to stop.Neil said:
Osborne initiated QE in the UK?DavidL said:The EZ is roughly 4x the UK economy and this policy seems to be almost exactly 4x the volume of QE put in place by the UK. Their following of Osborne is becoming slavish, if a little slow.
JJjH
It remains an interesting moot point what QE achieved here and what it might therefore achieve in the EZ. It certainly made funding the deficit easier and cheaper. The refund of the interest by the BoE meant that much of our borrowing was practically free.
As a result of the collapse of yields on gilts it destroyed what w as left of our private sector final salary pension schemes and damaged investment as additional contributions were Xmade to fill the holes. AIUI such schemes are rare on the continent.
It made easy money for our Banks which helped to keep the sods solvent while we fined them for their various crimes and they shrank their balance sheets.
Has it really had an effect on inflation? Don't see it.
If it generates that level of excitement for the EZ this is going to be a damp squib.0 -
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.0 -
I worry all the time for my father, he's a paediatrician of Pakistani Muslim heritage.TOPPING said:
At least he's not a paediatrician.TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
In light of the past tabloid hysteria when it comes to paedos.0 -
Neil,
"That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled."
How, pray? Make a vote for a party with a Jewish leader worth more? Make it hate crime not to vote for a party with a Jewish leader? Issue posters and videos with a Jew as the hero?
I suspect the Muslim community may have reservations about any pro-Jewish move.
You're usually quite perceptive, Neil, so I'm surprised you'll falling back on Guardian-like platitudes.0 -
Maybe just deny them the vote, or the right to think for themselves?Neil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
Even a fellow Tory MP once stood up in the Commons and called for Leon Brittan to be replaced by a "red-blooded Englishman".
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Surely this is more suitable for this website?antifrank said:
KATG summed this up (name abbreviated because it's not safe for work):TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
youtube Ian Watkins KATG
The video isn't really safe for work either, though it's about the most anodyne song he's ever performed.
NSFW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-ts=1421828030&feature=player_embedded&v=SrUDftDkH3E&x-yt-cl=84411374
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I might get an extension for my browser that replaces "TNS" with "TNS-BMRB"Sunil_Prasannan said:
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Blimeyantifrank said:
KATG summed this up (name abbreviated because it's not safe for work):TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RleE--HDBiU
The video isn't really safe for work either, though it's about the most anodyne song he's ever performed.0 -
How about just calling out the absurdity of such a view and arguing why it's wrong?CD13 said:Neil,
"That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled."
How, pray? Make a vote for a party with a Jewish leader worth more? Make it hate crime not to vote for a party with a Jewish leader? Issue posters and videos with a Jew as the hero?
I suspect the Muslim community may have reservations about any pro-Jewish move.
You're usually quite perceptive, Neil, so I'm surprised you'll falling back on Guardian-like platitudes.0 -
How about asking voters if they would be opposed to an atheist PM? Atheism would appear to be a problem in Conservative circles.0
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1% ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.0 -
BMRB doesn't appear on any of their PDFs or write-ups (cf. "ICM" for ICM, "Ipsos-MORI" for Ipsos-MORI", etc.)RobD said:
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If that one raises your eyebrows, I really don't recommend you explore his oeuvre. Many of the titles are unprintable on a family website.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blimeyantifrank said:
KATG summed this up (name abbreviated because it's not safe for work):TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RleE--HDBiU
The video isn't really safe for work either, though it's about the most anodyne song he's ever performed.0 -
Closer to 15-20%, I'd guess.Pulpstar said:
1% ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.
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I am not planning on voting UKIP, but I have a certain sympathy with them and the Greens, its a shit job sitting on the wings, you pick up all the crackpots and nutters voting for you whether you want them or not. Judging by some of their policies the SWP/Communist far-left tendency would probably feel right at home in the Greens (except for the restricted diet preferences maybe ), before the Greens became a household name Labour used to get most of the nutters (militant tendency anyone?), the kipper party on the other hand aren't really a bunch of extremists so much as a bunch of old colonels and white van men, but the EDL and assorted nutters are going to vote for them anyway as the most right wing party on the ballot.
When I look at surveys of what the voters for different parties think I tend to shrug, parties cant help who votes for them. Surveys of the views of the members and especially the candidates should be taken much more seriously imo, but they are usually canny enough not to get involved in those.0 -
1%? You dangerously underestimate just how many crazy people there are.0
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24% say Diana Assassinated, 12% say the moon landings were fakedPulpstar said:
1% ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/we-ask-conspiracy-theories/
In America 51% of voters say a larger conspiracy was at work in the JFK assassination, just 25% say Oswald acted alone
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html0 -
So it appears, I must admit that was news to meSandyRentool said:How about asking voters if they would be opposed to an atheist PM? Atheism would appear to be a problem in Conservative circles.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/01/dont-ask-dont-tell-the-tory-party-treats-atheists-like-the-army-used-to-treat-gays/
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I'm exploring his back catalogue. I think my sense of humour shows I can cope with most things.antifrank said:
If that one raises your eyebrows, I really don't recommend you explore his oeuvre. Many of the titles are unprintable on a family website.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blimeyantifrank said:
KATG summed this up (name abbreviated because it's not safe for work):TheScreamingEagles said:@RorySmithTimes: If the whole Chris Foy/Chris Hoy thing is anything to go by, Swansea's Leon Britton is going to have a rough few days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RleE--HDBiU
The video isn't really safe for work either, though it's about the most anodyne song he's ever performed.0 -
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/09/17/38-brits-princess-dianas-death-was-not-accident/A_Man_Called_Horse said:1%? You dangerously underestimate just how many crazy people there are.
Fully one third (33%) say it was at least 'probably true' that Princess Diana was assassinated, while one quarter (25%) also believe that the MI6 was involved and another quarter (25%) believe that Diana was pregnant with Dodi al Fayed’s child at the time of her death.
Looks like the kippers don't have the monopoly on fruitcakery!
19% believe that Henri Paul, who died driving the car Diana was in when she also died, was in the pay of a national security service.
Fewer people think that the SAS was involved (16%) or that Diana’s seatbelt was sabotaged (14%).0 -
Noone's trying to take your vote off you, Rod.RodCrosby said:0 -
I don't see what's the problem with preferring people with certain beliefs to be elected to office over others. Isn't that what everyone does? The problem is when you oppose people just because of their ethnic background, rather than what they believe.SandyRentool said:How about asking voters if they would be opposed to an atheist PM? Atheism would appear to be a problem in Conservative circles.
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Is the third one that crazy?TheScreamingEagles said:
24% say Diana Assassinated, 12% say the moon landings were fakedPulpstar said:
1% ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/we-ask-conspiracy-theories/
In America 51% of voters say a larger conspiracy was at work in the JFK assassination, just 25% say Oswald acted alone
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html0 -
BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
FTSE closing in on record high.0
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Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates
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Maybe 51% think John Wilkes Booth acted alone? Or Gavrilo Princip? Or Brutus? Who knows?Socrates said:
Is the third one that crazy?TheScreamingEagles said:
24% say Diana Assassinated, 12% say the moon landings were fakedPulpstar said:
1% ?TheScreamingEagles said:
To put that into context, how many Brits believe in conspiracy theories involving say Diana, or the moon landings were faked.Socrates said:
If the anti-Semitism was restricted to 13% of Muslims, I wouldn't be particularly worried about it. But it's far, far higher. In Western European nations I've seen polled, 60-70% of Muslims believe anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. If 60-70% of UKIP supporters believed anti-Semitic things, I would equally have a problem.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm sure the purples would be making the same points if a poll had Muslims being similarly anti Semitic.Neil said:
It seems to me to be exactly what it is telling us.Indigo said:
Unless the survey asked about other religions in similar terms it tells you no such thingNeil said:
The issue is surely that there are people out there who are less likely to vote for a party with a Jewish leader. That kind of prejudice needs to be tackled.Socrates said:
I don't see what's the issue here.
But it does fit into wider polling that shows UKIP supporters have a more negative opinion than the British public when it comes to Jews, Muslims, Asian men and immigrants.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2012/07/04/we-ask-conspiracy-theories/
In America 51% of voters say a larger conspiracy was at work in the JFK assassination, just 25% say Oswald acted alone
13% of voters think Barack Obama is the anti-Christ
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/04/conspiracy-theory-poll-results-.html0 -
I think he's going to demand the Scottish Socialist Party have to be included as wellNeil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates
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Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
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In amongst the other squabbling 6.Neil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates
Seven's a real bunfight.0 -
David Cameron would be laughing all the way to the podium if that was the proposal. He couldn't design a better way to split the progressive vote to Labour's detriment if he tried.TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
The last seven way I watched was something very different.0
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I support the inclusion of the Greens, but why on Earth should the SNP and Plaid Cymru be included in UK-wide debates? They don't stand outside of tiny corners of the country.0
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@jameschappers: Huge call for Labour: can they risk two TV debates being attacked from Left by Greens, SNP and Plaid? #GE2015
@IsabelHardman: Having protested about the debates, Labour now faces a chunky leftwing threat in new TV debates http://t.co/IWKqqegVqP0 -
Up front. Five lefty parties and two righties (one of which attracts WWC Labour votes). Corks a-popping in Downing St.Neil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal0 -
A seven way debate is ridiculous. I doubt people would watch it in the same numbers as 2010.0
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Believing the Apollo missions were faked is practically a benign, mainstream belief as far as conspiracy theories go. Millions of words have been written regarding (for instance) the utter innocence of Thomas Hamilton, Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe and Fred West, or arguing that earthquakes are caused not by plate tectonics, but MOSSAD nuclear tests.0
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Suspiciously like exactly what Cameron asked for.TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
Given the importance of the SHS in Scotland, both politically and in a fundamental sense in terms of everyone's daily life, I really don't think that that is actually the immediate motivation. It's her clear and present duty, rather, to fight for resources for the SHS, just as it was for the Secs of State pre-1999. If she did not, she would rightly lose politically. And if Unionist parties want to impose a hostile settlement not voted for by the Scots, then the political fallout of such a solution for them is another issue (but not a trivial one, obviously).Plato said:I'm only wading into the occasional thread - but seeing a load of fall-out about Ms Sturgeon and now Mr Cameron's reposte.
It really does seem she's pushed her luck - but will it make the required rift she's obviously angling for? It's so blinking obvious as a tactic to annoy the rest of us.
She did, in any case, say 'if it affected Scotland' or words to that effect, so it falls within current SNP self-denying practice, if rather more rigorously applied - we will no doubt scrutinise that nearer the time, if and when it happens, as part of a wider examination of whether EVEL is actually workable wihtin the current Westminster setip. It will, in any case, be well short of Unionist parties' abuse of the post-1999 settlement (mainly Labour and some LDs, though in practice it made very little actual difference).0 -
The SNP could be the third biggest party in parliament and possibly a member of the government.Socrates said:I support the inclusion of the Greens, but why on Earth should the SNP and Plaid Cymru be included in UK-wide debates? They don't stand outside of tiny corners of the country.
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@ShippersUnbound: Broadcasters now offering a 7-7-2 debate format. Con, Lab, LD, Ukip, Green, SNP, PC in one. Does SNP presence just give Dave a new excuse?0
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I think this is excellent news for UKIP, and probably won't do the SNP any harm either. It's going to be tough for Miliband, but he has very low expectations anyway on him.0
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With 7 politicians in say an hour long debate, they will get to speak for about six minutes each once you allow time for questions to be asked etc, no one is going to say anything on consequence in that sort of time, and nothing is going to be remotely deep enough to expose any sort of policy issues, its going to be a beauty contest, and complete bore.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he's going to demand the Scottish Socialist Party have to be included as wellNeil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates
Llwyd-gasm anyone ?0 -
Mebyon Kernow are launching a legal challenge, apparently.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he's going to demand the Scottish Socialist Party have to be included as wellNeil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot0
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by the time you had got to the fifth or sixth let alone seventh answer on whether or not to nationalise the railways or sell the NHS to Bernie Ecclestone everyone would have forgotten the question.Artist said:A seven way debate is ridiculous. I doubt people would watch it in the same numbers as 2010.
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But most people can't vote for them, which is surely the relevant thing in a political broadcast.TheScreamingEagles said:
The SNP could be the third biggest party in parliament and possibly a member of the government.Socrates said:I support the inclusion of the Greens, but why on Earth should the SNP and Plaid Cymru be included in UK-wide debates? They don't stand outside of tiny corners of the country.
The principalities have regional TV, let them do their own specific debates with the Scottish and Welsh leaders.0 -
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
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Oh dear, poor LibDems. No longer one of the big boys.0
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Hello first post but have been a lurker for years.
If the Tories and Labour nationally are roughly level pegging, doesn't logic dictate that since Labour will be ahead in Wales and Scotland (even allowing for a SNP landslide, all polls show Labour still way ahead of the Tories in Scotland), that the Tories have to therefore be ahead in England?0 -
Shadsy is offering 500/1 on the Greens winning the most seats, and Sporting Bet are offering 1000/1
I'm tempted....0 -
Not in population terms, which is what matters in a democracy.Carnyx said:
Tiny corner? Scotland is about 1/3 of the entire UK!Socrates said:I support the inclusion of the Greens, but why on Earth should the SNP and Plaid Cymru be included in UK-wide debates? They don't stand outside of tiny corners of the country.
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Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.0 -
Think they might struggle with 4 council seats, no MPs, and getting less votes cast for them in the last GE than the OMRLP!Tissue_Price said:
Mebyon Kernow are launching a legal challenge, apparently.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he's going to demand the Scottish Socialist Party have to be included as wellNeil said:
Where is Dave going to hide now?TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip
in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
Well, at the least the 5 can sing from the same hymn sheet...
"No deals without PR!"0 -
... and great for Cameron. The seven-ways will be an incoherent mess, which will change nothing, with all the focus on Dave vs Ed.0
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Speaking time in the debates should be allotted as per OFCOM's major party/minor party coverage guidelines.0
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What statements of consequence do you remember from the 2010 debates?Indigo said:
With 7 politicians in say an hour long debate, they will get to speak for about six minutes each once you allow time for questions to be asked etc, no one is going to say anything on consequence in that sort of time
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I'll give you my car, house and other half if the Greens get most seats, you can buy me a pint if they don't.TheScreamingEagles said:Shadsy is offering 500/1 on the Greens winning the most seats, and Sporting Bet are offering 1000/1
I'm tempted....0 -
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.0 -
Dave truly have played this debate malarkey stunningly well.
Got the Greens surging, diluting UKIP in a 7 way.
And to think people said he was frit, he's rather awesome at this bitches.0 -
He'll still try to run away. They don't call him Cameron the Cowardly for nothing!Tissue_Price said:
Suspiciously like exactly what Cameron asked for.TheScreamingEagles said:BREAKING NEWS
BBC and ITV bid for seven-way leaders' debates
The broadcasters' new proposals will include the Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru alongside Ukip in TV election contests, Radio Times can exclusively reveal
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-22/bbc-and-itv-bid-for-seven-way-leaders-debates0 -
Ed has too much to lose with a 7 way debate, therefore it won't happen.
Whoops! FTSE through 6800.0 -
No, under the glorious leadership of Owen Patterson (a man whose Cabinet career was undone by badgers), the Conservatives managed to just lose the UUP's last representation in Westminster in 2010. Of course there is a Green party standing in Northern Ireland.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
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If the Greens win most seats, you'll have to give up your car anyway, and you won't be allowed back in your house until it's carbon neutral. Having other halves will be barred as being far too patriarchal, and polyamory will be made compulsory.Pulpstar said:
I'll give you my car, house and other half if the Greens get most seats, you can buy me a pint if they don't.TheScreamingEagles said:Shadsy is offering 500/1 on the Greens winning the most seats, and Sporting Bet are offering 1000/1
I'm tempted....0 -
How can he stop it? He's said he'll debate with anyone that the broadcasters propose.Eastwinger said:Ed has too much to lose with a 7 way debate, therefore it won't happen.
Round 1 to Dave0 -
You're right, especially since the SNP landing the landslide would net me wonga. The SNP must be includedantifrank said:
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't. 0 -
I see where you are coming from on this, but on the other hand it's quite hard to maintain that belief when the authorities seem to have had little interest in "proving otherwise" in a number of cases over the last 50 years.felix said:
Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
So are we dealing in cynicism, or reasonable inference coupled with a reasonable belief in cover-ups?
In equally bad taste, I saw a tweet saying that Leon Brittan's cancer was as "convenient" as Prince Andrew's forthcoming skiing accident.0 -
The LibDems are the big losers in this.0
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As with so many things over the last parliament...Richard_Nabavi said:The LibDems are the big losers in this.
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Neil,
"I'm flabbergasted. You think I should have said "that kind of prejudice needs to be accepted"?"
I apologise to your flabber; I wouldn't like it to be gasted.
How would you suggest changing people's opinion/bias/wrong-thinking? Positive discrimination is usually the "progressive way". From you, I'd expect more.
There you are; consider yourself put on the spot.0 -
I can't help agreeing. Low politics in a subtle, understated yet cynical manner.TheScreamingEagles said:Dave truly have played this debate malarkey stunningly well.
Got the Greens surging, diluting UKIP in a 7 way.
And to think people said he was frit, he's rather awesome at this bitches.0 -
Having just plonked another £500 on the SNP in various constituencies this morning, this news gives me great joy.Pulpstar said:
You're right, especially since the SNP landing the landslide would net me wonga. The SNP must be includedantifrank said:
They linked up with the UUP, who won precisely no seats in 2010. The risk is too theoretical to be taken seriously, IMHO. The risk to the SNP of being excluded from national debates is much greater, given that their major rivals will undoubtedly be present in all debates.Pulpstar said:
Didn't the Conservatives stand in NI in 2010 ?antifrank said:
The DUP, the SDLP and the Alliance would have no grounds for claiming that their electoral performance would be harmed relative to others by not taking part in the debate, unlike Plaid Cymru, the Greens and the SNP.Scott_P said:@MShapland: No regional parties. If you have plaid in the debates you should have the DUP who have more MPs, and the SDLP and Alliance to boot
Edit: See they didn't.
If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.0 -
No one will win or lose the seven person debates. A sharp put down by Farage on Cameron isn't going to land if they're standing five metres apart with a couple of nationalists in between them. It'll be a series of short soundbites by each party with half the viewing public having switched over by the end of it. The broadcasters have well and truly messed this up.0
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New offer from the broadcasters:
BBC & ITV: one seven-way debate each with Tories, Labour, LibDems, Greens, UKIP, SNP and Plaid Cymru
Sky & C4: Cameron v Miliband head to head
Two debates with 7 candidates, one with two…
God the 7 candidate ones will be horrific...just one massive shouting match / no time to really get your point across. Maybe that is what Cameron's wants?0 -
Master strategist.. anyone?TheScreamingEagles said:Dave truly have played this debate malarkey stunningly well.
Got the Greens surging, diluting UKIP in a 7 way.
And to think people said he was frit, he's rather awesome at this bitches.0 -
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.0 -
What we are dealing with is mob rule by the twitterati - who deal in inuendo, nods, winks, etc.Tissue_Price said:
I see where you are coming from on this, but on the other hand it's quite hard to maintain that belief when the authorities seem to have had little interest in "proving otherwise" in a number of cases over the last 50 years.felix said:
Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
So are we dealing in cynicism, or reasonable inference coupled with a reasonable belief in cover-ups?
In equally bad taste, I saw a tweet saying that Leon Brittan's cancer was as "convenient" as Prince Andrew's forthcoming skiing accident.
If there are cover-ups let the law reveal the truth and while we wait for that this is a very good year to be remembering Magna carta, etc0 -
Too much wiggle room now. I can't see any debates happening, unless its Nick, Farage and five empty chairs.Richard_Nabavi said:
How can he stop it? He's said he'll debate with anyone that the broadcasters propose.Eastwinger said:Ed has too much to lose with a 7 way debate, therefore it won't happen.
Round 1 to Dave
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The 5th, 6th and 7th leaders invited are all non English women well to the left of the four other leaders (presuming that it will be the England and Wales party leader that represents the Greens).0
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And all the wise ones on here said Cameron had made a catastrophic error on demanding the Greens were included. Perhaps they could now give him some credit, rather than always saying how hopeless he is.0
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Nicola is not a candidate at the GE. Why should she appear in a GE debate?Richard_Nabavi said:It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
Who else, also not standing, could we invite?0 -
Justice delayed is justice denied. I have no time for the mob but it is not hard to see why no-one trusts the Establishment on these matters.felix said:
What we are dealing with is mob rule by the twitterati - who deal in inuendo, nods, winks, etc.Tissue_Price said:
I see where you are coming from on this, but on the other hand it's quite hard to maintain that belief when the authorities seem to have had little interest in "proving otherwise" in a number of cases over the last 50 years.felix said:
Unbelievably bad taste remark about someone who has just died. I simply fail to understand the way all judgement is lost when discussing allegations with reference to people who have died. We used to have a belief in innocence until proven otherwise which sadly no longer seems to apply in this country. It has similarities to describing those who make allegations as 'victims'. Totally placing the cart way ahead of the horse.Danny565 said:Also, does Leon Brittan's death mean we might now get some interesting news stories in the coming days? *innocent face*
So are we dealing in cynicism, or reasonable inference coupled with a reasonable belief in cover-ups?
In equally bad taste, I saw a tweet saying that Leon Brittan's cancer was as "convenient" as Prince Andrew's forthcoming skiing accident.
If there are cover-ups let the law reveal the truth and while we wait for that this is a very good year to be remembering Magna carta, etc0 -
Sssh!currystar said:And all the wise ones on here said Cameron had made a catastrophic error on demanding the Greens were included. Perhaps they could now give him some credit, rather than always saying how hopeless he is.
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This proposal does seem ridiculously biased to the Conservatives. It minimises the damage that Nigel Farage will cause to the Conservatives' right flank while maximising the damage caused to Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.
At least Ed Miliband gets his head to head with David Cameron on this proposal.0 -
"If there are cover-ups let the law reveal the truth..."
The law is just as much a part of the cover-up.0 -
Expect a Plaid surge too? Wales Gets Wood?Richard_Nabavi said:
It's a real gift to the SNP. Nicola will be free to lay on the 'standing up for Scotland' line with full gusto, whereas Ed will have to look principally to the effect of anything he says on English viewers.antifrank said:If the SNP do appear in the debates, it causes Ed Miliband a strategic problem. Labour are trying to present Scottish Labour as a separate entity from UK Labour. But in any national UK debate, Ed Miliband has to embody both. He could find himself doing the splits between the two positions. Nasty.
I'm astonished that Labour, and the LibDems, have allowed themselves to be manoeuvred into this position.0
