Let’s talk about shoes – politicalbetting.com

System · May 30

Let’s talk about shoes – politicalbetting.com

33% of Britons say it is acceptable to wear trainers with a suit to a formal event, a look adopted by Justin Trudeau at yesterday's opening of the Canadian parliamentAcceptable: 33%Unacceptable: 59%yougov.co.uk/topics/consu…

Read the full story here

ManOfGwent · May 30

I went to a wedding in Bristol last year and one of the guests appeared to be wearing slippers with his suit. They sadly did not distract attention from the ankle tag he was also sporting.

Battlebus · May 30

Some sole searching there.

DecrepiterJohnL · May 30

Trainers, unlike brown furniture and rust-brown cars, are apparently collectable by a certain demographic.

Taz · May 30

Actually it was a look first adopted by David Tennant’s 10th Doctor incarnation 😎

Cookie · May 30

It rather depends on the trainer.
Some of us cannot look good in any clothes whatsoever, so why bother, frankly. I'm always slightly baffled when I see British men managing to look well-presented - you could spend thousands on clothes for me and I'd still look like I was wearing something designed for someone of a different species. The best I can hope for is clean.

algarkirk · May 30

Trainers with a suit is OK if you are a trend setter. I don't know if Trudeau is a trend setter these days. Last time I saw him in the flesh he was speaking some years ago at a graduation ceremony for Edinburgh University. The young ladies were visibly melting in his presence. He could have worn a suit of armour, top hat, brown brogues and a sari and been fine.

A trend worth noting is the growing fashion amomg women of all ages for sensible shoes of unfashionable and practical design at occasions where once they would have endured ridiculous discomfort. This is a move towards civilization IMHO.

I still draw the line at brown shoes with blue/navy suits. Like Japanese knotweed it creeps in all the time

AugustusCarp2 · May 30

My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.

SandyRentool · May 30

Nearly as bad as the Clarkson-style jeans and jacket look.

Omnium · May 30

Trudeau looked fine.

Average trainers, definitely not.

However we've all become accustomed to shoes that don't torture our feet in recent years (well all males), and when you put on the brogues again it hurts after about half a tango.

The great problem for me is that with really great attire, I couldn't afford it when it worked, and now I can it doesn't.

Nonetheless if I won the Euro lottery I'd be off to the tailors as my first act of self-indulgence.

SandyRentool · May 30

My late father in law was an avid runner. He wore trainers all the time. Including to his younger son's wedding.

algarkirk · May 30

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.

You intervene decisively at these words, it's the last chance saloon:
......into which holy estate these two persons present come now to be joined. Therefore if any man can shew any just cause, why they may not lawfully be joined together, let him now speak, or else hereafter for ever hold his peace.

MarqueeMark · May 30

Partly depends on the trainers.

Nobody will ever look acceptable wearing Trump's gold trainers.

Omnium · May 30

SandyRentool said:
Nearly as bad as the Clarkson-style jeans and jacket look.

Well that's me shot down in flames.

(Jeans because they are zero maintenance, and a jacket because it has pockets and vaguely obscures that I'm a bit lardy)

Phil · May 30

Fashion trends redefining formal wear is an old, old story. Once upon a time the suit (as we now know it) was informal wear for working people - the upper classes wore morning dress, something now reserved almost entirely to undertakers & aspirational-class weddings. Up until the 1960s hats were absolutely compulsory outdoors & often worn indoors too, with the type of hat defined mostly by class or profession. Now no-one is compelled to wear a hat. Presumably at some point hat wearers railed against the fashion-forward of the day dropping the hats from their everyday attire.

Which is a rather long way of saying “plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose” of course.

vik · May 30

President Donald Trump lashed out at the conservative legal movement and one of its prominent leaders, Leonard Leo, on Thursday night, blaming them for the federal court ruling that blocked most of his tariffs this week.

In doing so, Trump deepened a schism with an influential community that was crucial to shaping his first term but has increasingly fallen out of favor with the president as he ramps up attacks on the judiciary.

In a lengthy social media post, Trump called Leo a “real ‘sleazebag’ ” and suggested that the Federalist Society led him astray on judicial nominations during his first term.

https://wapo.st/3HgR6fY

SandyRentool · May 30

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.

He should have worn blue shoes?

MarqueeMark · May 30

True story told to me by Terence Stamp over dinner.

He was not a man bothered by ostentation. However, his one great luxury was hand-crafted shoes. He had over 100 pairs.

When he took on the part of Bernadette in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, the costume budget was tiny. He spent the shoot in horrible, cheap drag-queen shoes.

At the end of the shoot, his feet had become so malformed, he couldn't get into any of his beautiful hand made shoes.

Let that be a lesson, wannabe drag artistes...

Mexicanpete · May 30

MarqueeMark said:
Partly depends on the trainers.

Nobody will ever look acceptable wearing Trump's gold trainers.

Hmmm.

Does the old rule apply? Black for town, brown for country.

MarqueeMark · May 30

Omnium said:

SandyRentool said:
Nearly as bad as the Clarkson-style jeans and jacket look.
Well that's me shot down in flames.

(Jeans because they are zero maintenance, and a jacket because it has pockets and vaguely obscures that I'm a bit lardy)

Corduroy jackets take some carrying off.

MarqueeMark · May 30

Mexicanpete said:

MarqueeMark said:
Partly depends on the trainers.

Nobody will ever look acceptable wearing Trump's gold trainers.
Hmmm.

Does the old rule apply? Black for town, brown for country.

The shit in the country tends to be brown.

Mexicanpete · May 30

MarqueeMark said:

Mexicanpete said:

MarqueeMark said:
Partly depends on the trainers.

Nobody will ever look acceptable wearing Trump's gold trainers.
Hmmm.

Does the old rule apply? Black for town, brown for country.
The shit in the country tends to be brown.

Farage isn't brown, although Clacton is semi rural.

MarqueeMark · May 30

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.

Presumably the intervention you intended was with your daughter?

Omnium · May 30

MarqueeMark said:

Omnium said:

SandyRentool said:
Nearly as bad as the Clarkson-style jeans and jacket look.
Well that's me shot down in flames.

(Jeans because they are zero maintenance, and a jacket because it has pockets and vaguely obscures that I'm a bit lardy)
Corduroy jackets take some carrying off.

Amongst my usual set there is indeed a corduroy jacket. A mere trifle of carrying off though to me

OldKingCole · May 30

algarkirk said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
You intervene decisively at these words, it's the last chance saloon:
......into which holy estate these two persons present come now to be joined. Therefore if any man can shew any just cause, why they may not lawfully be joined together, let him now speak, or else hereafter for ever hold his peace.

I've always thought that was sexist. Why should a woman not be able to shout 'but he's the father of my baby and he PROMISED......'.
No, has to be a man.

Malmesbury · May 30

s

MarqueeMark said:
True story told to me by Terence Stamp over dinner.

He was not a man bothered by ostentation. However, his one great luxury was hand-crafted shoes. He had over 100 pairs.

When he took on the part of Bernadette in Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, the costume budget was tiny. He spent the shoot in horrible, cheap drag-queen shoes.

At the end of the shoot, his feet had become so malformed, he couldn't get into any of his beautiful hand made shoes.

Let that be a lesson, wannabe drag artistes...

…. And then he made the Limey. A film about a very, very angry man.

FF43 · May 30

Trainers with a suit are fine but they need to be black.

Phil · May 30

Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.

Pagan2 · May 30

Anyone who insists you have to wear a suit for anything is an arsehole frankly. They are the most pointless attire in existence

Malmesbury · May 30

Omnium said:
Trudeau looked fine.

Average trainers, definitely not.

However we've all become accustomed to shoes that don't torture our feet in recent years (well all males), and when you put on the brogues again it hurts after about half a tango.

The great problem for me is that with really great attire, I couldn't afford it when it worked, and now I can it doesn't.

Nonetheless if I won the Euro lottery I'd be off to the tailors as my first act of self-indulgence.

Have you tried Mephisto shoes?

twistedfirestopper3 · May 30

My middle lad videoed the wedding of a rock guitarist friend recently (she plays with rock royalty, and has a burgeoning solo career)
He asked what she wanted him to wear so he'd mingle in with the guests (he looks like a better looking, cleaner Kurt Cobain). Her answer "whatever you usually wear, but no fucking brown shoes". He ended up wearing , a rolled up linen suit and a pink T shirt, very Sonny Crocket, and classic Vans. He reckons he was better dressed than 90% of the Rock Gods who attended.

kinabalu · May 30

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.

As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.

Pagan2 · May 30

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.

Told my father when you croak I am not buying a suit for your funeral I am wearing this. His response was hell good you be you

OldKingCole · May 30

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.

Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.

rcs1000 · May 30

This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.

Big_G_NorthWales · May 30

Lord Hermer, the Attorney General apologises for 'clumsy remarks' and regrets using this reference

WhisperingOracle · May 30

It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.

kinabalu · May 30

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.
Told my father when you croak I am not buying a suit for your funeral I am wearing this. His response was hell good you be you

A perfectly fine and healthy exchange.

WhisperingOracle · May 30

In a different epoch, that should say.

Pagan2 · May 30

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.

There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories

Casino_Royale · May 30

This has upset me.

MarqueeMark · May 30

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.

Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....

MarqueeMark · May 30

Coca-Cola looking to leave the US.

Hur-hur-hur....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucLe-dAzM0M

Pagan2 · May 30

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.
Told my father when you croak I am not buying a suit for your funeral I am wearing this. His response was hell good you be you
A perfectly fine and healthy exchange.

Hey I moved 300 miles to look after him what more does he want.....didn't like him before, like him less now but its duty

twistedfirestopper3 · May 30

I'm a lean fecker can wear anything superbly, and I carry off the urban mountain biker/ surfer look like I'm born to it. I love FiveTen trainers, skinny jeans, cutoff shorts, hoodies and race jerseys. Got long floppy hair.
Trouble is, I'm nearly 60.

Luckyguy1983 · May 30

Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.

OldKingCole · May 30

Since I retired I've downsized, clothes-wise. I've one suit, which so far I've worn for four funerals and my grandson's wedding. And I've invested in the sort of shoes which you can slip on without having to fight with laces. Not quite trainers, but nearly.

Nigelb · May 30

Cookie said:
It rather depends on the trainer.
Some of us cannot look good in any clothes whatsoever, so why bother, frankly. I'm always slightly baffled when I see British men managing to look well-presented - you could spend thousands on clothes for me and I'd still look like I was wearing something designed for someone of a different species. The best I can hope for is clean.

That's unlikely.
Almost anyone can look good given time to acquire the knowledge of how to dress stylishly.
Whether it's worth the expenditure of resources (mainly time) is, of course, questionable.

Luckyguy1983 · May 30

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.

Just disinherit them both.

kinabalu · May 30

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories

Not many men wear thigh boots with high heels. Respect if you do.

carnforth · May 30

https://www.johnlobb.com/en_gb/shoes/shoes-trainers

Even Lobb makes trainers. Well, Lobb Paris, not Lobb of St James'.

williamglenn · May 30

Yet another attack on a prison officer:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14765155/Prison-guard-taken-hospital-stabbed-maximum-security-jail-holds-notorious-inmates-latest-act-violence-Britains-prison-system.html

A source with knowledge of the prison told MailOnline the attacker used a flick-knife brought in by a drone.

The video player is currently playing an ad. You can skip the ad in 5 sec with a mouse or keyboard
They said drones were a 'real issue' at the prison and warned an officer 'would be killed' if the problem was not resolved.

'This happened this morning - a flick-knife got in and a prisoner stabbed an officer,' the source said. 'The governor isn't stopping the drones coming in - they are dropping items to prisoners in their cells.

Pagan2 · May 30

twistedfirestopper3 said:
I'm a lean fecker can wear anything superbly, and I carry off the urban mountain biker/ surfer look like I'm born to it. I love FiveTen trainers, skinny jeans, cutoff shorts, hoodies and race jerseys. Got long floppy hair.
Trouble is, I'm nearly 60.

Can go with the long floppy hair, I try to be more stylish though that cutoff shorts

Luckyguy1983 · May 30

twistedfirestopper3 said:
My middle lad videoed the wedding of a rock guitarist friend recently (she plays with rock royalty, and has a burgeoning solo career)
He asked what she wanted him to wear so he'd mingle in with the guests (he looks like a better looking, cleaner Kurt Cobain). Her answer "whatever you usually wear, but no fucking brown shoes". He ended up wearing , a rolled up linen suit and a pink T shirt, very Sonny Crocket, and classic Vans. He reckons he was better dressed than 90% of the Rock Gods who attended.

Mandy Rice Davis applies.

Pagan2 · May 30

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Not many men wear thigh boots with high heels. Respect if you do.

Rocky horror parties nods

Omnium · May 30

Malmesbury said:

Omnium said:
Trudeau looked fine.

Average trainers, definitely not.

However we've all become accustomed to shoes that don't torture our feet in recent years (well all males), and when you put on the brogues again it hurts after about half a tango.

The great problem for me is that with really great attire, I couldn't afford it when it worked, and now I can it doesn't.

Nonetheless if I won the Euro lottery I'd be off to the tailors as my first act of self-indulgence.
Have you tried Mephisto shoes?

I've worn Merrell shoes almost exclusively for I guess 10 years - perhaps more. I have 3 pairs of much-repaired Churches shoes - those were once worn (and rotated) every day.

My feet struggle with the latter.

Not seen the Mephisto range before, but they're not right in my view stylistically.

ydoethur · May 30

Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lord Hermer, the Attorney General apologises for 'clumsy remarks' and regrets using this reference

Why? Did he say something supporting the wearing of trainers with (shudders) SPATS?

Luckyguy1983 · May 30

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Not many men wear thigh boots with high heels. Respect if you do.

Not sure where the high heels would go - on the hands?

Pagan2 · May 30

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Not many men wear thigh boots with high heels. Respect if you do.
Rocky horror parties nods

Strangely I don't possess either a pair of trainers haven't worn them since I was 12 and no formal leather shoes since the late 90's

DecrepiterJohnL · May 30

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.

Brixton boy. Rankin' John Major.

Big_G_NorthWales · May 30

williamglenn said:
Yet another attack on a prison officer:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14765155/Prison-guard-taken-hospital-stabbed-maximum-security-jail-holds-notorious-inmates-latest-act-violence-Britains-prison-system.html

A source with knowledge of the prison told MailOnline the attacker used a flick-knife brought in by a drone.

The video player is currently playing an ad. You can skip the ad in 5 sec with a mouse or keyboard
They said drones were a 'real issue' at the prison and warned an officer 'would be killed' if the problem was not resolved.

'This happened this morning - a flick-knife got in and a prisoner stabbed an officer,' the source said. 'The governor isn't stopping the drones coming in - they are dropping items to prisoners in their cells.

Jenrick's already on the case according to Sky

Omnium · May 30

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.

Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.

Luckyguy1983 · May 30

carnforth said:
https://www.johnlobb.com/en_gb/shoes/shoes-trainers

Even Lobb makes trainers. Well, Lobb Paris, not Lobb of St James'.

'Elevate' is a big giveaway word that Chatgpt has been used to create that copy.

Shame for a heritage brand to go down that road - tacky.

OldKingCole · May 30

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:
Yet another attack on a prison officer:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14765155/Prison-guard-taken-hospital-stabbed-maximum-security-jail-holds-notorious-inmates-latest-act-violence-Britains-prison-system.html

A source with knowledge of the prison told MailOnline the attacker used a flick-knife brought in by a drone.

The video player is currently playing an ad. You can skip the ad in 5 sec with a mouse or keyboard
They said drones were a 'real issue' at the prison and warned an officer 'would be killed' if the problem was not resolved.

'This happened this morning - a flick-knife got in and a prisoner stabbed an officer,' the source said. 'The governor isn't stopping the drones coming in - they are dropping items to prisoners in their cells.
Jenrick's already on the case according to Sky

I have a niece who is a prison officer. Has twenty years of horrific stories.

WhisperingOracle · May 30

MarqueeMark said:

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.
Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....

Theresa May should have tried a hooded top, gold trainers, the baseball cap look, and "low rider" jeans. This might have changed her ratings.

Pagan2 · May 30

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.

Sounds like you went to a public school

Casino_Royale · May 30

MarqueeMark said:
Coca-Cola looking to leave the US.

Hur-hur-hur....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucLe-dAzM0M

Just for the taste of it?

kinabalu · May 30

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.
Told my father when you croak I am not buying a suit for your funeral I am wearing this. His response was hell good you be you
A perfectly fine and healthy exchange.
Hey I moved 300 miles to look after him what more does he want.....didn't like him before, like him less now but its duty

Yes, I wasn't kidding, I meant it. And that's a deeply admirable thing you're doing there. It takes strength and character.

Also - I want to be very clear about this - I have no problem with you wearing thigh boots with high heels.

Casino_Royale · May 30

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.

We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.

Pagan2 · May 30

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

AugustusCarp2 said:
My son in law turned up for his wedding wearing a blue suit with brown shoes. I thougt that an intervention was called for, but my wife dissuaded me.
As a compromise you could have let the service happen but excoriated him in your speech afterwards.
Told my father when you croak I am not buying a suit for your funeral I am wearing this. His response was hell good you be you
A perfectly fine and healthy exchange.
Hey I moved 300 miles to look after him what more does he want.....didn't like him before, like him less now but its duty
Yes, I wasn't kidding, I meant it. And that's a deeply admirable thing you're doing there. It takes strength and character.

Also - I want to be very clear about this - I have no problem with you wearing thigh boots with high heels.

If I come to the next pb meet I will sit on your lap and you can stroke my stockings

numbertwelve · May 30

It depends.

Trainers with a suit when commuting, before and after meetings, social get togethers that need smart/business casual - yes,

For formal business meetings, weddings and funerals I would always still say no

And yes they should be black trainers typically. You should probably avoid those zany coloured Air Max 95s.

Omnium · May 30

Pagan2 said:

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.
Sounds like you went to a public school

Nope - comprehensive. It had been a Grammar School a few years previously.

DecrepiterJohnL · May 30

I have two pairs of unworn black shoes, bought just before we went WFH. They are probably unwearable after more than a decade. One thing I do recall is that switching between trainers and formal shoes was hard because of the different gait each imposed.

rcs1000 · May 30

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories

Wellies, Doc Martens and Thigh Boots are all boots, rather than shoes.

The other two are simply abominations, and also don't fit into the category of shoes.

Pagan2 · May 30

Omnium said:

Pagan2 said:

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.
Sounds like you went to a public school
Nope - comprehensive. It had been a Grammar School a few years previously.

The comprehensive I went to the pupils would have just told the teachers to fuck off

Pagan2 · May 30

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Wellies, Doc Martens and Thigh Boots are all boots, rather than shoes.

The other two are simply abominations, and also don't fit into the category of shoes.

But fit into neither of your categories which was the point

kinabalu · May 30

WhisperingOracle said:

MarqueeMark said:

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.
Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....
Theresa May should have tried a hooded top, gold trainers, the baseball cap look, and "low rider" jeans. This might have changed her ratings.

Yes, I can imagine her in that running through fields of wheat.

Sunil_Prasannan · May 30

I can't remember the last time I wore "proper" shoes. Possibly an interview at UEA in November 2018.

twistedfirestopper3 · May 30

You should wear whatever you feel comfortable in. Obviously, there will be times when a certain style/ formality will have to kick in, but the rest of the time- follow your own code, and feck everybody else.

OldKingCole · May 30

Pagan2 said:

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.
Sounds like you went to a public school

Grammar schools ..... at least the one I went to ...... could be like that.

However there was the saving grace that at the end of a rugby 'lesson' the master would shout 'Balls to me laddies, balls to me".
Which engendered shouts from the boys of "Balls to Mr......., Balls to Mr ....."
Happened every year. No idea whether he thought it was funny or what.

Nigelb · May 30

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.

No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.

Pagan2 · May 30

kinabalu said:

WhisperingOracle said:

MarqueeMark said:

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.
Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....
Theresa May should have tried a hooded top, gold trainers, the baseball cap look, and "low rider" jeans. This might have changed her ratings.
Yes, I can imagine her in that running through fields of wheat.

If you are clothed while running through fields of wheat you have missed the point of running through fields of wheat

kinabalu · May 30

Big_G_NorthWales said:

williamglenn said:
Yet another attack on a prison officer:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14765155/Prison-guard-taken-hospital-stabbed-maximum-security-jail-holds-notorious-inmates-latest-act-violence-Britains-prison-system.html

A source with knowledge of the prison told MailOnline the attacker used a flick-knife brought in by a drone.

The video player is currently playing an ad. You can skip the ad in 5 sec with a mouse or keyboard
They said drones were a 'real issue' at the prison and warned an officer 'would be killed' if the problem was not resolved.

'This happened this morning - a flick-knife got in and a prisoner stabbed an officer,' the source said. 'The governor isn't stopping the drones coming in - they are dropping items to prisoners in their cells.
Jenrick's already on the case according to Sky

Will he be solving it or just using it for self promotion?

Casino_Royale · May 30

twistedfirestopper3 said:
You should wear whatever you feel comfortable in. Obviously, there will be times when a certain style/ formality will have to kick in, but the rest of the time- follow your own code, and feck everybody else.

No, that selfish and lazy and also makes you look like shit.

Men look fantastic in a great suit, jacket or formal attire and you should take pride in your appearance, and cop the respect too.

Pagan2 · May 30

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.
No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.

A lot of people dress to fit in with their social circle sorry but its true, its not about comfort for them but about being part of the crowd

rcs1000 · May 30

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Wellies, Doc Martens and Thigh Boots are all boots, rather than shoes.

The other two are simply abominations, and also don't fit into the category of shoes.
But fit into neither of your categories which was the point

The header, though, is about shoes. So I merely talked about shoes.

If the header had been about male footwear then I would clearly needed to have covered boots and sandals.

I think you need to look at it like this:


- footwear
 - shoes
  - trainers
  - formal shoes
  - semi-formal shoes
 - boots
  - Doc Martens
  - wellies
  - thigh boots
 - sandals
  - flip flops

Casino_Royale · May 30

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.
No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.

Yes, we have.

As usual you are wrong.

Sunil_Prasannan · May 30

SandyRentool said:
Nearly as bad as the Clarkson-style jeans and jacket look.

And on that bombshell...

Nigelb · May 30

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.

After the first encounter with rugby, I managed to avoid it by simply not turning up, and seeking sanctuary in the library - a place almost always deserted, and where no one thought to look for me.

Rugby is best left to those who enjoy inflicting pain on each other.

rcs1000 · May 30

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

WhisperingOracle said:

MarqueeMark said:

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.
Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....
Theresa May should have tried a hooded top, gold trainers, the baseball cap look, and "low rider" jeans. This might have changed her ratings.
Yes, I can imagine her in that running through fields of wheat.
If you are clothed while running through fields of wheat you have missed the point of running through fields of wheat

I thought it was to get away from the rozzers?

Pagan2 · May 30

rcs1000 said:
Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:

Pagan2 said:

rcs1000 said:
This question is bullshit, because in the old days there were two types of shoes for men:

- Formal leather shoes
- Trainers (which weren't really used for training)

Nowadays, there's a whole new class of shoe: the comfortable, smartish shoe. A lot of my shoes are like that these days: they have flexible tops (like a trainer), but the shape of a formal shoe.

I wouldn't wear them with a suit (what kind of freak do you think I am?) but for smart casual, and semi-formal settings, they are absolutely perfect. They are comfortable, without making you look like a chav.
There are more types of shoe than those two

Unless you think
a) wellies
b) sandals
c) flip flops
d) steel toe capped doc martens
e) Thigh boots with high heels

fit into those two categories
Wellies, Doc Martens and Thigh Boots are all boots, rather than shoes.

The other two are simply abominations, and also don't fit into the category of shoes.
But fit into neither of your categories which was the point
The header, though, is about shoes. So I merely talked about shoes.

If the header had been about male footwear then I would clearly needed to have covered boots and sandals.

I think you need to look at it like this:
- footwear
 - shoes
  - trainers
  - formal shoes
  - semi-formal shoes
 - boots
  - Doc Martens
  - wellies
  - thigh boots
 - sandals
  - flip flops

That looks pythonesque....I refuse to burn my eyes out with it

Mexicanpete · May 30

Over 50 and I am not convinced trainers are appropriate. I binned the Stan Smiths and most of my Vans although I still have one pair of Old Skool and one New Skool remaining, but rarely worn these days. Casual means Sperry Docksiders. For the most part only Brogues or Oxfords are appropriate.

Omnium · May 30

Pagan2 said:

Omnium said:

Pagan2 said:

Omnium said:

OldKingCole said:

Phil said:
Jeans & a jacket is the modern “casual formalwear” if you can’t carry off jeans and a t-shirt any more because beer gut + t-shirt isn’t a good look.
Back in the '50's my father was very much against me wearing jeans. Not 'appropriate wear" as far as he was concerned. However when, against his wishes, I bought a motorbike he relented.
Do you remember your first long trousers!? I must have been perhaps 10.

Shorts! Shorts in winter, and especially if it's ridiculously cold.

Mind you then at high school the rugby lessons used to be much of that ilk. You could get into big trouble if you tried to wear a t-shirt under your rugby shirt. Shorts. socks (not too cowardly long) and a reversable rugby top. Minus 3million degrees in a gale - perfect for a boy's education.
Sounds like you went to a public school
Nope - comprehensive. It had been a Grammar School a few years previously.
The comprehensive I went to the pupils would have just told the teachers to fuck off

Well that happened at mine too. And the teachers were well armed with modest tools such as wooden rods of great disciplinary history.

I fell foul of many teachers (we all did, and in fact I think in retrospect the policy was to have at least one beating per lesson), but luckily I never experienced the real bastards. There was an economics teacher who was just a world of pain if you crossed him, and thus I didn't study economics - I think his name was Radcliffe.

kinabalu · May 30

Casino_Royale said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:
You should wear whatever you feel comfortable in. Obviously, there will be times when a certain style/ formality will have to kick in, but the rest of the time- follow your own code, and feck everybody else.
No, that selfish and lazy and also makes you look like shit.

Men look fantastic in a great suit, jacket or formal attire and you should take pride in your appearance, and cop the respect too.

Amongst famous men which one do you like the best in a smart suit?

Pagan2 · May 30

Mexicanpete said:
Over 50 and I am not convinced trainers are appropriate. I binned the Stan Smiths and most of my Vans although I still have one pair of Old Skool and one New Skool remaining, but rarely worn these days. Casual means Sperry Docksiders. For the most part only Brogues or Oxfords are appropriate.

This "I am not convinced its appropiate" thing has to stop.....how about you just wear what you feel is comfortable for you?

rcs1000 · May 30

Pagan2 said:

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.
No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.
A lot of people dress to fit in with their social circle sorry but its true, its not about comfort for them but about being part of the crowd

Indeed: if you hang out with a bunch of Goths, then before long you will be wearing eyeshadow and you won't own any non-black clothing.

That said, the amount we care what our peer group thinks about us (and specifically how we look) peaks at about 16. Now - candidly - I couldn't give a fuck.

Nigelb · May 30

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.
No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.
Yes, we have.

As usual you are wrong.

As usual, you take your own beliefs, often dogmatic, as objective truth.

ydoethur · May 30

Really classy people wear Loakes shoes, of course.

Casino_Royale · May 30

kinabalu said:

Casino_Royale said:

twistedfirestopper3 said:
You should wear whatever you feel comfortable in. Obviously, there will be times when a certain style/ formality will have to kick in, but the rest of the time- follow your own code, and feck everybody else.
No, that selfish and lazy and also makes you look like shit.

Men look fantastic in a great suit, jacket or formal attire and you should take pride in your appearance, and cop the respect too.
Amongst famous men which one do you like the best in a smart suit?

Anthony Eden

kinabalu · May 30

Pagan2 said:

kinabalu said:

WhisperingOracle said:

MarqueeMark said:

WhisperingOracle said:
It was always a shame than John Major never began gold trainers with his suits, to achieve a "gangsta" effect, and wrongfoot his critics.

That was many years before Cameron's Converse trainers, ofcourse, and in a diffrreng epoch. Geoffrey Howe should also perhaps have tried large baseball trainers.
Baseball hats caused an image problem from which William Hague never recovered....
Theresa May should have tried a hooded top, gold trainers, the baseball cap look, and "low rider" jeans. This might have changed her ratings.
Yes, I can imagine her in that running through fields of wheat.
If you are clothed while running through fields of wheat you have missed the point of running through fields of wheat

Really? My mind is a-boggling. Sheltered city boy life.

Casino_Royale · May 30

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigelb said:

Casino_Royale said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
Sadly we live in a very badly dressed age. I don't exclude myself from that critique, though I try to dress appropriately and would never wear trainers with a suit.

https://designyoutrust.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/14-23.jpg

A football fan in the 1930s - full article here:

https://designyoutrust.com/2019/10/stunning-vintage-photos-of-british-football-fans-from-the-1900s-to-1940s/

I mean what have we become.
We have moved from dressing for the pleasure of others to dressing for the pleasure of ourselves.
No, we haven't.

Those who care about how they dress have always done it mostly for their own satisfaction. That their social/friendship group might share their tastes doesn't really alter that.

And there's always been something of a trade-off between comfort and style.
Yes, we have.

As usual you are wrong.
As usual, you take your own beliefs, often dogmatic, as objective truth.

We can tell from your comments on here that you dress like a twat, and look like shit.

Noted.

Let’s talk about shoes – politicalbetting.com

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